Is Trump the End of the GOP? Hopefully.

Republican National Convention turns into Trumpland; Crushes #NeverTrump minority.

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Is Trump the End of the GOP? Hopefully.

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The 2016 Republican National Convention may feel like a sureal acid trip with its abundance of American flag clothing and Donald Trump memorabilia. But, if you look past the theatrics of delagates and supporters, you may witness a political party convention that acts like a wake for the GOP.

Approximately 3:12.

Music by The Underscore Orkestra.

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Comments

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I would certainly argue that Trump has brought us ever closer to a more European style of politics as it relates to the political parties.

[Swiss Servator]

I think he is in the Berlusconi mold - flamboyant wierdness with a heavy dash of bungling (not bunga-bungaling!), where Hillary is more like a good old fashioned French leader-thief-cronycrat.

[WTF]

I look forward to the bunga-bunga parties in the White House.

[Rhywun]

Not as much as Bill.

[Swiss Servator]

Don't get me wrong, if Trump wanted, he could probably hire, er....throw the best bunga-bunga parties the WH has ever seen (or at least since JFK was there).

[Cynical Asshole]

MAKE WHITE HOUSE BUNGA-BUNGA PARTIES GREAT AGAIN!

[mtrueman]

European style may not be as bad as you imagine. UKIP, essentially a white power UK party, has no representation in parliament. Thanks to the "European style of politics" it has a voice in European parliament. A more European style of politics in the USA would certainly result in Libertarians getting elected rather than being frozen out as they are currently under "American style politics."

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[Pompey (91% LOLLOLZ)]

The mayhem is delicious. The hooting disrespectful assclowns that chanted the Paultard delegates out of the 2012 convention get this. Couldn't be more deserving.

[Suthenboy]

Oh, they did more than that. They beat peo[ple up at the Louisiana state convention, even knocked down and broke one old man's hip and had him dragged out by the cops. Not just any old man, he was the leader of the Paul delegation and he refused to abide by their middle of the game rule changes.

You are right, it couldn't be more deserving...unless of course someone were willing to break their hips.

[Pompey (91% LOLLOLZ)]

USA! USA! USA!

[[OMITTED]]

Make 'murica grate[sic] agin!

[Suthenboy]

I can only hope so. They sure are losing their minds over this. It is beautiful to watch.

Here is some advice for you, GOP establishment: Eight years ago you were told you could go along for the ride but you had to sit in the back seat and keep your fucking mouth shut. For 8 years that is essentially what you have done so why don't you keep right on keeping on.

[Sevo]

It said "read more"; I'm not seeing an article.

[RBS]

Maybe it was just some general advice.

[Tankboy]

Thanks, RBS.

[Hugh Akston]

Can't say I approve of Paul's Freddy Mercury mustache, but I did lol at the part where he was like no Mexico is not going to pay for the wall.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I didn't know what you meant until I watched the video. Totally Freddy.

[R C Dean]

Now that the Crazy Season has officially kicked off, let's remind ourselves about some foundational truths:

Iron Laws:

1. You get more of what you reward and less of what you punish.
2. Money and power will always find each other.
3. If everything is a priority, nothing is a priority.
4. The less you know about something, the easier it looks.
5. You aren't free unless you are free to be wrong.
6. Me today, you tomorrow.
7. Foreseeable consequences are not unintended.
8. Meaning comes from context.

[DEATFBIRSECIA]

9. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

[Swiss Servator]

10. TANSTAAFL

[Rhywun]

11. Don't you worry about blank. Let me worry about blank.

[Sonoran Desert Rat]

12. You can't always get what you want.

[Inigo Montoya]

But if you try sometime you'll find you get what you you need.

[Agent Cooper]

I thought it was TINSTAAPP.

There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect.

[Krabappel]

Cue a beat and some cheap electric piano music and I think we could record these proverbs into a hit song!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

10. You get support from where you get it.

What, I can't add IT rules in there?

[Swiss Servator]

*shrugs*

Sure, why not?

[R C Dean]

You may submit proposals for new Iron Laws. I'm not saying that a little baksheesh will help your proposal along, but . . . .

[Trump's Penis Logo, Jr.]

12. The friend zone is the last, best step in acquiring the companionship of a desirable woman.

[JFree]

13. You can't always get what you want

[Joe M]

You should include a clarification of #6, as it's always the one that gets misinterpreted.

It doesn't mean, "I get what I want now, you get what you want later."

Rather, it's me along the lines of, "If you use laws to crush me, those same laws will end up crushing you later."

[R C Dean]

Good point.

But, its from, I believe, Solshenitsyn. So I'm not messing with it.

[Rhywun]

I got the 2nd meaning right away. Guess that means I've been hanging around here too long.

[JWatts]

"You should include a clarification of #6, as it's always the one that gets misinterpreted."

Anyone misinterpreting it, has it coming.

[FD]

Sounds a little too familiar. I'm calling plagiarism.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

6A. It is never tomorrow.

[Mickey Rat]

If Trump is the end of the GOP, what replaces it is unlikely to warm libertarian hearts, as what seems to motivate his voters are positions libertarians choke on.

[Swiss Servator]

Yeah, the celebratory tone I am catching from Reason writers seems misguided. I fear what both behemoth parties in the US are morphing into...

[Rhywun]

The Christian Socialists and the Socialist Christians?

[Thomas O.]

WE'RE the Christian Socialists. The Socialist Christians are splitters!

[Zunalter]

It's the cosmo peeking through.

[Calidissident]

This is why I've never agreed with the libertarians that seem to think anything that's anti-establishment = good. And it's not just on the GOP side. I saw a lot of people take that view of Bernie's campaign. To me, as bad as the Democratic establishment is, the party turning to full-blown socialism would not improve things.

[John]

But as long as the establishments in both parties own things, libertarians are going nowhere. More importantly, as long as the major media is able to determine what is and what is not acceptable political discourse, libertarian ideas are going to be dismissed out of hand and not receive a fair hearing.

The only hope that Libertarians have is for the power of the party establishments and especially the major media to be broke. Yes, that will create the opportunity for other fringe ideas like full on socialism to get a hearing as well. Libertarians are going to have to be able to utilize the opportunity better than those other out of mainstream ideologies. If they can't do that or are afraid to try, then they are wasting their time as libertarians and should just go join one of the parties, because they clearly see them as a necessary evil keeping worse ideologies at bay.

Understand, that Libertarians are never going to convert either party establishments or the major media to be anything but hostile to their ideology. So either take the risk of breaking their power or forget it and go join them holding back the ignorant masses. Those are your choices.

[Calidissident]

It's true that libertarians would need to break establishment power to ever gain control of one of the two parties. I don't think it follows that they need to support any and all efforts to break establishment power, even if the people replacing the establishment are even worse, just on the off chance that it may at some point lead to libertarians taking over a party. Unless you are only concerned with implementing full purist libertarianism at all costs (which to me is unrealistic and a wishful fantasy) and don't care at all about how systems outside of that realm compare to each other (which is stupid - not all unlibertarian things are equally bad and/or equally unlibertarian), it seems to me that it would be more sensible to only support efforts to overthrow the establishment by groups that are at least clearly better than the establishment (I'm not saying they need to be libertarians necessarily).

[Calidissident]

I realize this is a hyperbolic example, and I'm not saying Trump and Sanders are comparable to the Nazis and KPD (German Communist Party), but in Weimar Germany a lot of people abandoned the establishment in favor of those two parties. The Nazis won, and we saw what they did, and the KPD eventually was put in power in East Germany by the Soviets, and we saw how that went as well. Both groups were clearly a lot worse than the establishment, even though the Weimar establishment sure had a bunch of problems. That's a clear example of where it would have been idiotic for libertarians to support anti-establishment movements at all costs. Again, I'm not saying Trump/Sanders are that bad, I'm just using that as an example to illustrate my point clearly.

[John]

And if a real Nazi party arises, you will have a point. But that hasn't happened. Trump is a good sign for the country. It means people still believe in the political process and are willing to support someone who they feel represents them. The country will be in real trouble when there are no Trumps and a huge number of people have given up on the political system and turned to other means.

That is why Trump winning will likely be good for the country. It will give his supporters a measure of revenge and feeling that the government can change and respond to their needs. It will also remind the elite that they don't own the country and their power to control the country is very limited. Even if the establishment returned to power in 2020, losing to Trump would leave them chastened and lot less contemptuous of the country than they are today. And that would be a good thing.

If Trump loses, however, the forces that created him are not going to go away. They are just going to stew and get bigger and harder to deal with. The next politician who picks up the cause is likely to be much worse than Trump and very well may be dangerous. Worse still, if that person doesn't succeed, we end up with people resorting to violence and insurrection, which would be the ultimate disaster.

Sometimes the establishment needs to lose and the populists need to win. Authority tends to sober up the populists and losing tends to sober up the establishment.

[kbolino]

Authority tends to sober up the populists

Depends on what variety of populist. Trump ain't no Nazi or Communist, but the latter two can be quite populist and yet they don't sober up until they've purged all their enemies and been brought to heel by outside forces.

[Calidissident]

"And if a real Nazi party arises, you will have a point. But that hasn't happened"

As I said, it was a hyperbolic example to illustrate the point. Trump isn't a Nazi, but I still don't think he's an improvement. Sanders isn't the KPD, but he's still not an improvement either.

[John]

You miss my point Cali. He is a pressure release valve. If he loses, the establishments will learn nothing and continue down the path they are on and we will end up with something like the Nazis.

[FD]

I can't get worked up over the hyperbolic nonsense.
Goldwater was gonna start the nuclear holocaust, so thankfully we got the dove LBJ.
Reagan was gonna start WWIII against the then-Soviets.
Bush was gonna be more of the selfish and niggardly days of Ronnie, yet the Gipper's budget was a liberal's dream.
Clinton was gonna turn the country socialist; yuh, like we haven't been for decades.
Obama was gonna turn the country socialist....
Trump is gonna deport Muslims.
Hillary is gonna start WWIII....
Yaddah, yaddah.

[Animal]

Also, a Trump Presidency represents the American voters taking an enormous, steaming, smelly dump on the entrenched political elites.

If it accomplishes nothing but that, it's worth doing.

[kbolino]

The only chance libertarians would have to coopt one of the major parties would be to enjoy far more popular support than they do, or to actually be supported by a shadowy cabal of powerful figures.

I don't see either happening any time soon. Shaking up the establishment may result in more representative government. It will not result in more libertarian government in the aggregate, however.

[John]

If you have so little faith in people and voters, why do you think they deserve so much freedom? Maybe the progs are right that the masses need to be managed by top men for their own good.

I have never understood how people see elitism and a general loathing for humanity as being consistent with any love of liberty.

[kbolino]

What? I pointed out a reality, that most people are not libertarian, and you respond to that by saying I'm an elitist with no faith in people.

The only thing I have "no faith in" is politics.

[Bill Dalasio]

If you have so little faith in people and voters, why do you think they deserve so much freedom?

Because people can be very good at managing their own affairs and still suck at managing the affairs of 250 million other people.

[Robert]

No, I think John was asking the other way around: Why accord people political freedom if you think they don't believe in individual freedom?

[Robert]

Maybe if looked at broadly, yes, but even w/o great popular support, a movement can achieve gains in some areas simply by the confluence of other interests & forces. For instance, something illegal can be made legal not because of some general revulsion vs. illegality, but because this thing is thought to be good. That's how we're getting legal pot. Religious freedom came about not because it was thought to be good in principle, but because the sides had fought to a bloody draw.

[Bill Dalasio]

Except your analysis assumes that all broke is the same broke.

It doesn't work that way.

And that's a very large part of why I oppose Trump. If he wins, there's even less of a future for libertarianism in the GOP than there is now. Politicians learn just as much as anyone else. And the lesson a Trump victory would teach wouldn't be that there's a great future in promoting limited government and individual liberty.

[Red Rocks Okey-Dokein]

If he wins, there's even less of a future for libertarianism in the GOP than there is now.

Sorry, but where exactly does libertarianism fit into the GOP of the last 20-30 years? Maybe gun rights, but that's about it.

[Chipwooder]

On the one hand, the GOP is awful and its demise richly deserved. On the other hand, that just brings us closer to California-style Dem one-party rule, which will be an unmitigated disaster. Really sucks the fun out of it.

[WTF]

Really nothing to do at this point but have a drink by the pool and watch it all burn.

[Citizen X]

I hope that pool is licensed with the appropriate authorities, fenced away from neighborhood chirren, taxed out the wazoo, and otherwise up to code, Mister!

[JWW]

What !?! You mean this is not the libertarian moment!!!

I can't wait for pres Hillary to erase my natural rights with government controlled ones...

[WTF]

Once the GOP is gone, we will enter the utopia of unchallenged Democratic rule! I can't wait!

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

Hillary has already stated she wants to appoint Supreme Court Justices who will overturn Citizens United. Let that sink in: she has explicitly endorsed putting judges on the bench who will make it illegal to criticize her. And the media has not challenged her on it.

[colorblindkid]

I would be okay with the end of the GOP if the Democrats were ended too, but they are not, and I am much more scared of a world with only the Democrats than one with the Republicans in it. A Republican split into two parties would be disastrous for the country if the Dems stay united.

[WTF]

Why would you be scared? Just look at the places where Democrats have had unchallenged one-party rule for decades - paradise!

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

They're all the same party. Their rhetoric is just different.

[Zunalter]

Yea, Michigan and Texas, identical...

[Ron]

I don't mind interviewers who question but when they question in a snarky manner that shows they aren't interested in their answer and are really there to make fun of them he's lucky anyone talked to him.

BTW what is happening at this convention is no different then any other convention by any party.

[FD]

Amen to that.
The pundits have an agenda, whether right, left, center or perfect like me.

[SugarFree]

No alt-text for the video?

"AH LOVE MAH HAT! NO HOMO!"

[Trump's Penis Logo, Jr.]

"Hat" rendered as redneck speak should be "Hay-it". FYI.

[Horatio]

Racist

[John]

The GOP has more elected officials in this country than it has ever had. This fight is a sign of its strength not of its weakness. What is happening here is the Democratic Party keeps getting more and more ideological and kicking more and more people out of the party. Those refugees are showing up in the Republican party and they are not getting along with each other or the people who were there to begin with. It is a hard process but it is the result of the party getting larger and more powerful not of it dying.

Ideological conformity and agreement are a sign of weakness in a national party. National parties are supposed to be big and raucous and full of division. That is what comes with being big, which is the entire point of a national party.

[NoVaNick]

John, you are also describing the Democrats from 1968-1992. They did OK at the state level and held onto Congress but couldn't get their shit together to win a national election because of warring liberal and conservative factions. Finally, they agreed to go along to get along. I don't see this happening with the GOP anytime soon.

[John]

The Republicans are doing more than okay at the state level. They are stronger than they have ever been. And the Democrats were the majority party during the time you describe. That is hardly consistent with a dying party.

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

Yeah, the Democratic Party has been in free fall since 2009 (I mean, fuck me, Massachusetts, Maryland, and Illinois have Republican governors), but we're still clinging to the "end of GOP" narrative, apparently.

[NoVaNick]

The MD and MA governors essentially function as democrats who might veto the occasional tax hike. They don't have much choice considering that the state legislatures are overwhelmingly democrat, or they could dig in their heels and shut down the government, as IL has done. Wonder who of them will be re-elected, then blasted as a RINO by the hardcore conservatives who decide the party's national direction?

[Animal]

A RINO who essentially functions as a democrat who might veto the occasional tax hike is also the only kind of Republican who could get elected in those states. Can you see Ted Cruz winning an election for even Third Assistant Dogcatcher in MA?

[R C Dean]

Those refugees are showing up in the Republican party and they are not getting along with each other or the people who were there to begin with.

Sounds like the establishment GOPers should have built a wall, after all.

[NoVaNick]

This election, and the polarization of politics in general is reminding me more and more of John Waters' 1972 film Pink Flamingos - a contest for the filthiest people alive. If you haven't seen it, you should, but do not eat anything for six hours before at least.

[Derp-o-Matic 5000]

When a candidate finishes with below 45% of the popular vote in the actual election, I'll start to consider the question.

Not happening this year.

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How divine...

[Zunalter]

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[Domestic Dissident]

Here's hoping that Block Insane Yomomma and the Snukeapotamus are the end of the democratic party!

[C. S. P. Schofield]

We should only be so lucky. I really don't see what the fuss about Trump is about. Yes, he's a crook. Yes, he's serially dishonest. Yes, his policies make no damned sense whatsoever. All of that is true for Shrillary, on a much broader scale. Furthermore, as an anti-establishment Republican Trump would arrive in Washington with absolutely no allies in Congress. We've seen his that works from the other side. Carter had no allies among the Democrats, and accomplished on half the square root of fuck all.

Shrilly, OTOH, has allies, flurries, toadies, and the like all over Washington. Nobody will seriously try to hamstring her agenda, and if they do the lapdog media will vilify them as if they had been caught in bed with a dead nun.

Moreover, Trump is, at base, a traveling carnival disguised as a man. He's entertaining, even if only as a train wreck. Shrillary is as entertaining as watching paint dry....while being lectured by your Liberal/Progressive Professor Sister-In-Law.

[MSD62581]

Kind of odd that the video depicts the weirdness of Trumps success and the lack of coherence of his message (all true) but then shows socially conservative people spouting socially conservative messages as supposed evidence of the party's backwardness. The strangeness is the fact that Trump really isn't a social conservative. He's been all over the map on abortion. He's really not an opponent of same sex marriage. Many people want to conflate social conservatism's supporters with Trump's rise, but this doesn't add up. Especially given some people (especially on the left) have celebrated the possibility that The Donald's success means that religion is losing its political power. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04......html?_r=0

Both can't be true. Either Trump has demonstrated that evangelical votes are more irrelevant than ever or he has found a way to co-opt them despite not ever really being one of them. The video was a classic bait and switch.

[bassjoe]

He's coopted them.

There is apparently something evangelical voters care more about than traditional social issues if they're hitching their train to a thrice-married adulterer who has likely paid women to get abortions (as long as they sign rock-solid NDAs).

[Grant]

End of the GOP . . . beginning of what? The Socialist Party? The Crony Crap Party?

I've seen Water's World. I don't see the electorate moving right in this Century.

[AD-RtR/OS!]

If the demise of the GOP is nigh, it is not because of Trump, but what caused Trump.
And, that being the case, it deserves to die.

[Cytotoxic]

Hopefully? Why? What's gonna replace it? Is there any reason to believe this will lead to improvement?

[MarkLastname]

Why would this be a cause for celebration? Is one party socialism supposed to be something libertarians are into?

[Stephdumas]

That reminds me of that article then Pat Buchanan writed at UNZ and Zerohedge wondering if it's the party over for Bushism?

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[bassjoe]

It's not the end of the GOP. It's ridiculous to think that it will be. The two parties are so deeply enmeshed into all levels of government and society that it will take far more than one shitty presidential election for one of them to end.

Is it the end of the GOP that we've come to know and love over the past 50 or so years? Maybe. But even the know-nothing nativist populism of Trump may not last much longer than this election cycle, even if he wins the presidency (which I consider VERY unlikely).

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