GOP Rep. Thomas Massie: "I don't think there is a good outcome in 2016"
Libertarian Republican won't endorse anyone for prez now that Rand Paul's out, wants an ideological "dating manual" for new congressmen, and says technology-not politics-will set us free.
"Now that Rand [Paul] is out of the race, the libertarian voice is gone," says Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky). "The one argument for libertarians to vote Republican that still remains is the Supreme Court. Other than that, I really can't see very much endearing for a libertarian in these Republican candidate."
Nick Gillespie sat down with the three-term congressman during the International Students for Liberty Conference to discuss the 2016 election, Apple vs. surveillance state, and why "engineers, not politicians" keep him optimistic about the future.
About 7 minutes.
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THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. PLEASE CHECK ALL QUOTES AGAINST VIDEO FOR ACCURACY.
Reason: Hi, I'm Nick Gillespie with Reason TV and today we're talking with Congressman Thomas Massie, a Republican from Kentucky. Congressman Massie, thanks for talking with us.
Massie: Thanks for having me, Nick.
Reason: We are at the International Students for Liberty Conference. What are the most important votes coming up for a libertarian-leaning Republican between now and the 2016 election?
Massie: I think we can force some votes on the privacy issue. I've been able to force about four votes and in fact, last year and the year before, I forced a vote on the appropriations bill to shut down the back doors, to shut down government forcing companies to install back doors in their products.
That amendment was attached to an appropriations bill that got thrown away and then an omnibus was later done, but it's important to get the votes, because then you can see where the congressmen stand.
Reason: In a recent Republican-candidate debate, all of the existing candidates basically said, "Apple should unlock that iPhone and just be done with it." How do you feel about that?
Massie: Well, I'm sad. I mean, now that Rand [Paul]'s out of the race, the libertarian voice is gone. And I think it's also untethered some of those candidates to be more neocon-ish.
Reason: What are the prospects in the 2016 election for growing the number of congressmen and senators who, like yourself, are serious about shrinking the size, scope and spending of government?
Massie: I think the prospects are good. There's a guy in Indiana, Jim Banks, who's been good on the food freedom issue in his state senate so I've decided to back him. And you know, there are other candidates out there. The real question for me–or my goal now or my mission in life—is when the good guys get elected, is trying to keep them from becoming zombies when they get to D.C.
Because you know, we get probably 12 to 20 guys every cycle that you know, they run on what they believe and they believe what they run on and then they get there and they sell out within six months.
Reason: What are the ways that you either keep them from selling out our becoming zombiefied? Is it education, is it support, what is it to keep them strong?
Massie: Congressmen get led to a place they never want to go. And then they find themselves there and they find themselves trying to argue that that's the right position.
[I'd like to] explain to them how they're going to get lead in those directions, how they're going to get whipped into voting for things they never intended to vote for. It's almost sort of like a dating manual for adolescents: Like, "When this happens, and you feel uncomfortable, there's a reason you feel uncomfortable…." Just you know, say this. You sort of need that dating manual when they get there so they don't end up in places they don't want to be.
Reason: In terms of the presidential race, what is the best outcome that you're hoping for in 2016?
Massie: I'm really pessimistic. I don't think there is a good outcome in 2016. I would say the one argument for libertarians to vote Republican that still remains is the Supreme Court nominees. Other than that, I really can't see very much endearing for a libertarian in these Republican candidates.
Reason: You're not going to support or endorse anybody before the election. Will you vote for the eventual Republican nominee?
Massie: I'm not going to endorse any of the remaining candidates. In Kentucky, I'm going to vote for Rand [Paul] because he's still on the ballot. You know, we'll just wait and see what happens in November.
Reason: We're at the Students For Liberty Conference. What was the most important issue for you in your student days and is it still a big deal for you? And if not, what has replaced it?
Massie: My gateway issue into liberty was gun rights because I grew up in a rural area where everybody had guns. And then I went to college and realized people in college wanted to ban these things. I went to college in Massachusetts [Editor's note: Massie graduated from M.I.T.] That was sort of my gateway issue into the liberty movement and as I thought through that, I was able to think through these other issues.
Reason: Over the past 20 or 30 years, Second Amendment rights have really seen an enormous increase in their legal standing as well as their popularity in many ways.
Massie: The gun rights movement is probably something everyone should study because they're fighting above their weight class. When I was young, if you wanted to carry a concealed weapon, you had to be a sheriff's deputy. I mean, it was virtually unheard of to be able to do that. And now you can do that in most states, with minimal hoops to jump through. In 1994 they banned so-called assault weapons and high-capacity magazines and we all thought we'd never see those again. And here we are, they're the most popular firearm in the United States.
Reason: Gun-related crime and violence are down.
Massie: That's important, yeah. Every state or municipality that has made these changes to be more liberal in terms of letting people own guns, they've seen a reduction in crime.
Reason: What makes you pessimistic these days and what makes you optimistic?
Massie: I'm most pessimistic about the national debt and the fact that when interest rates return to normal levels, 5 percent interest on $20 trillion $1 trillion a year. That's bigger than our military budget. It's actually our entire discretionary spending combined.
Reason: We're spending about $4 trillion a year, so if [debt payments go] up to that, that's 25 percent off the the top of the budget that will just go to pay for money we've already spent.
Massie: Of the $4 trillion, $3 trillion of that is for entitlements. There's $1 trillion that funds the things that people think about, like roads and bridges, NASA, and the military. That trillion [in debt payments] will wipe out all of the things that Congress actually votes on. Because I don't see any will to change the entitlement programs right now.
Reason: What makes you optimistic?
Massie: What makes me optimistic is technology, invention, and the human spirit to improve our own lives. My background is as an engineer and I have 29 patents; I've invented things. When people say, "Will our children be better off than we were," I say, "Absolutely they will." Society doesn't forget the things it invented and we invent more things. You know, we've got smart phones now, we've got eBay, and things that have really made life better thanks to technology. So when people say, "Are we going to be better off," I say, "Yes, but it's going to be due to the engineers, not the politicians."
Reason: We will leave it there. Thank you so much. We've been talking with Congressman Thomas Massie from Kentucky. For Reason TV, I'm Nick Gillespie at the International Students For Liberty Conference.
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Shorter transcript: we’re screwed.
Unless you are an engineer.
I’m an engineer. Aerospace. Sans degree. It CAN be done.
I’d like to hear the how. Im a locksmith currently, after dropping out of college for mech engineering.
Actually, those of us who became Republicans to support Ron Paul in 2008 have realized open boarders is bad for native populations and only Trump is talking about this: therefore all would be Rand Paul supporters have gone all in on Trump. It’s the autistic libertarians who still don’t understand the nature of society who are the problem. Third world low IQ Immigrants are not natural libertarians.
Please enlighten us with your well-reasoned political philosophy. Anyone who goes from Ron Paul supporter – Trump supporter, must have some kind of brilliant idea of how government should work.
Shut your face-hole, Ship! Janet came here to school everyone on how ALL would-be Rand Paul supporters support Trump now. Every single one of ’em. Also, if you don’t fear the brown folk, you don’t understand the nature of society, man!
I love the brown folk, who else is going to mow my lawn, duh!
Y U NOT HIER WITE PPL TO MOW UR LWAN THAT IS LBREAL RACSITM
I tried, but they left beer bottles and Trump signs all over my yard.
So, you’re saying the brown folk cleaned up after you? /ducks
Y U NO LIEK TRMUP U MUST B LIBRETARDIAN ARTIST
ALL WOUD BE RAND PUAL SURPPORST R TALKIGN ABOUT IT
STAE OF MUH BOARDER
[peels out in F-150 with Yosemite Sam mudflaps]
O_o
Them goddamn Messicans and terrists is stealin’ the jobs of honest white folk!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHNk0-7hW3U
They took our jerbs!
Wow! The whole third world has a low IQ. Particularly the ones who want to come to the US. I’m sure George Gershwin, Andy Grove (Intel), Yoonshin Song (current concertmaster for Detroit Symphony) and others who ‘native populations’ thought came from low-IQ backgrounds will find this view amusing. Not to mention Chiwetel Ejiofor. All dummies, of course…
Damn it, Janet
go fuck yourself.
This guy caucused for Ron Paul twice and stayed home this year. And there is no fucking way I will vote for Trump or Clinton.
Calm down, she said open “boarders”. This is a rant about ski resorts.
No, no, she wants to repeal the Third Amendment, and make everyone really start to “Support the Troops.”
AVAST! PREPARE TO REPEL BOARDERS!
I thought she was talking about how we could all make $$$$ renting out our spare rooms to the….undocumented… amsong us.
Kevin R
we already have all the low IQ natives that we can handle
Right there is a fact that’s hard to argue against.
“It’s the autistic libertarians who still don’t understand the nature of society who are the problem.”
Hi, Mary!
Or the OG Lonewacko. He liked to throw “autistic” around. I mean, just because Warty told everyone about him being a child molester doesn’t mean he would stay away.
This must be a sock.
que ?
After reading Janets post, I felt the need to watch some Church of Gail. There is nothing like hearing about how the Jesuits are going to launch(?) a nuclear bomb filled with semen.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
DAMMIT Fd’A, I came here to say that.
*sulks*
I think most people who found Ron in 08 or 12 are now hard libertarians or an caps. If they read anything and actually agreed philosophically, there’s no way they are backing trump.
Actually, many are backing Sanders.
Yeah, I know.
Ugh, how. How can you make that jump. No one uses any part of their brain.
Anti-war voters, I think.
And Nerdy Old White Dude fetishists.
Proponents of The Worse, The Better as the Path to Liberty?
Kevin R
Actually, many are backing Sanders.
I’m backing Polishers.
Ha!
Ron Paul has no love for Trump:
Ron Paul: From A Libertarian Viewpoint There Is No Difference Between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump
Ron Paul: I wouldn’t support Trump as GOP nominee
Open borders welfarism isn’t a very Libertarian position. Not sure why there’s such a fetish for it around here.
Yep. Open borders, Welfare state, pick one.
The staff couldn’t take it when Progressives called them racists at DC cocktail parties.
You know, the usual reason the Progressive Theocracy Marches On.
What is it about libertarianish Kentucky politicians and bad hair styles? Does Massie go to Rand’s barber?
Beats me. Most adult professionals around here have normal hair.
Speak for yourself.
SugarFree has a three-foot-long ponytail hanging down his back, it is known.
I pictured him as a business-in-front, party-in-back kind of guy.
Probably stores it in his buttcrack
No, but you do NOT want to know what he does store in there.
Hey! I told you about that in confidence.
Well, maybe don’t let it trail out behind you like a comet when you’re zipping around town on your Vespa, then.
*laughs, begins choking on snack…clears airway and resumes laughing*
And by normal you mean pubic mullet, right?
I read that as “public mullet” and it made more sense, both as a hairstyle and a band name. How would a pubic mullet even work? Is it trimmed in the main area but then you grow it long on the grundle?
Now that’s Merkin Greatness!
Kevin R
Does moonshine curl your hair?
GOOD moonshine does.
Because he was invited to all the cocktail parties and …. wait for it …. LIBERTARIAN MOMENT!!!
So.
Libertarian moment?
YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO WAIT FOR IT!
Well I guess Rand Paul is going to be president of Kentucky.
When it all falls apart, quite possibly.
He doesn’t think there’s a good outcome for 2016. He said NOTHING about 2017!
Massie: I think the prospects are good. There’s a guy in Indiana, Jim Banks, who’s been good on the food freedom issue in his state senate so I’ve decided to back him.
Well, here’s the deal. This is what needs to be done. Trying to get a libertarian elected POTUS is like trying to make Hillary likeable, it ain’t happening.
Whoa, he’s talking about National Debt.
*mind blown*
Massie needs to grow some facial hair and look mean and scary. This is why no one takes us libertarians seriously. All of their friends tell them that libertarians are hard mean bastards who enslave orphan children to polish their monocles, and then they see this guy and Matt Welch and that fucking Rand Paul guy and they feel all warm and fuzzy inside and think ‘wow, they look like really nice normal guys, they’re just like the rest of us dweebs!’. Damn you cosmos, damn you all to hell!
Hey, I know a Harley guy who’s a libertarian! We could nominate him!
Does he look really mean and scary?
There’s a guy in Indiana, Jim Banks, who’s been good on the food freedom issue in his state senate so I’ve decided to back him.
Unpossible!
I have it on impeccable authority* that Indiana is full of uber-mega-ultra-conservative backwater hicks who mercilessly throw people in jail for killing their babies and otherwise rotely convict and imprison people for committing crimes against persons and property.
*By impeccable authority I mean they lived in the state for a couple of years, declared it some of the worst of flyover country, and abandoned it for the libertarian Mecca of Washington D.C.
Gary Johnson got 1.9% in Indiana in 2012, nearly double his national total.
With Rand Paul out the only choice left is the Libertarian Party.
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I think we’d have been much better off if Massie, Amash, Napolitano, and Rand Paul had all run for the GOP nomination, and then given their support to whichever of them was leading the Libertarian pack by this time.
-jcr
You’re not asking the really important questions: Who will the Trumpenfuhrer march off to the camps first, the Rino’s or the libertarians? And will Chris Christy wear a black uniform with white piping or a grey uniform with black piping?
And by Trumpenfuhrer I mean Hillary Clinton.
Black is slimming.
Am I the only one who thinks Chris Christie is the reincarnation of Hermann G?ring?
Physically, sure. Psychologically, he may be more Franz von Papen.
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