Moonshine: The American Rebel Spirit
Q&A w/ author Jaime Joyce
Moonshine evokes imagery of outlaw distillers practicing their craft by the light of the moon to evade the law. But Prohibition ended in 1933. Why are illegal moonshiners still a thing?
"To make this liquor on your own is really exciting to a lot of people. It's under the radar. It remains against the law to make distilled spirits even though wine and beer you can make legally [without a permit]," explains Jaime Joyce, author of Moonshine: A Cultural History of America's Infamous Liquor.
According to Joyce, it's also a matter of economics. Illegal moonshine is most prevalent in poor, rural America where getting licensed to make and sell distilled spirits comes with prohibitive costs. To a financially strapped family, it's more beneficial to risk jail and be able to afford food on the table than it is to shell out hundreds of dollars in fees.
Joyce sat down with Reason TV's Anthony L. Fisher to discuss the economics and cultural significance of moonshine, it's role in the creation of NASCAR, and why this old school tradition has grown so popular among urban hipsters.
About 8 minutes.
Produced by Amanda Winkler and Anthony L. Fisher. Camera by Jim Epstein and Dan Rogenstein.
Music: Running Moonshine On Highway 9"
Copr. 2001 Jeff O' Corbett (BMI)
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Hit and Run is dead?
Looks like it.
They really need to hire some IT people
the whole thing is screwed up.
and it's going in and out--sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not.
And now the post has emerged from its exile!
You know who else emerged from exile?
Your...your mom?
Napoleon?
Napoleon Bonaparte?
Carol?
Yusuf Islam?
Nice.
Joe from Lowell?
Winner, unfortunately. (Not hating on you, Pl?ya; hating on the circumstances that made that the best answer.)
Double nice.
The Mother of Dragons?
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn?
Close, in a very ironic way.
Maximus Decimus Meridius?
Athanasius?
Beetlejuice?
Rushdie?
Lenin. The answer I was thinking of was VI Lenin.
My next guess was going to be Steve Jobs.
And then Sgt Carey Mahoney, then General Zod, Max from "where the Wild Things Are", and finally Milton Waddams
I am the Walrus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDOJ4L0Edk
Les Taylor?
Kiss you all over?
zombie Hitler?
The whole damn site's been fucked up for me for weeks. It doesn't show any of the formatting. The crap that's supposed to be in the menus at the top of the page is just a list of links down the page, and everything is in plain times new roman font. Yet the clickbait ads still show up, go figure.
It works on my phone and my home PC, so I'm assuming there's something fucked up with work computer. Probably missing an update that hasn't been pushed out by IT or something. Who knows.
Money-making code tends to have longer life expectancy I reckon.
Maybe they implemented Bechdel-compliant coding?
Zing! A foil star for that one!
Clear your cache.
Check your privilege
Or just turn it off and then on again.
I just rebooted my privilege, and it's running better than ever.
Well, now i can close this service-ticket then.
Its not just privilege, its Epiprivilege!
Jiggle the cable!
Your idea of porn is strange
I finally sign in to help troll and then Reason dies, just my luck. I'm going to go throw animal blood on some nude Peta models or something...
Record that and post it here, plz.
Probably because of this?
http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire.....id/634218/
32. Hit and Run - The Cato crowd are softies compared with the free minds defending free markets at Reason magazine. In the mag's Hit and Run blog, you can find posts such as "In Defense of Drunk Sex" arguing that a "new caste of killjoys who wouldn't recognize fun if it offered to buy them a drink ('unwanted sexual advance')" is treating manifestations of the normal human mating ritual like attempted rape. And while most of the country applauded the life imprisonment conviction of the "American Sniper" killer, a Steve Chapman post said of Eddie Ray Routh, "If this guy isn't crazy, who is?" and called for "a more sensible set of laws" that would confine Roth "to a mental institution where he could be thoroughly treated."
I suppose it is too much to expect them to figure out that Chapman doesn't work for Reason if regular commenters can't.
I told you peanutz you were Team RED!!11!!!
/shriek
They refer to the people at Cato as 'libertarian conservatives.'
Ugh. I don't think they know what a libertarian is.
libertarian conservatives
I said on another thread I like this term. Basically I am a conservative, but don't want to force that on anyone else.
It's not an accurate representation of Cato though.
Don't know about them, but I do like the term.
Yes it is. Cato is a think tank that writes policy for conservatives. Their donors are almost all conservative. Cato was founded by the Kochs. The most prominent Cato scholar to deny they are conservative was "libertarian Democrat" Brink Lidsey, who was promptly purged.
If they think the articles are hardcore, they should read the comments.
We'd break the Newsmax people faster than Bo.
+1 Ivan Drago
Just wounded.
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Well, we wouldn't want those people to be able to easily make a living as legitimate businesses would we? Besides, moon shiners tend to be white trash, so fuck 'em. /DERP
They can't even make MJ wax without literally blowing up grandma, and you expect them to be able to create moon shine?
If it were legal, it could be made with supercritical CO2 which can't blow anyone up.
I got messed up on some blueberry moonshine over the weekend. Woosh. That stuff hits hard and fast.
I have a friend that introduced me to something he called Cherry Bounce. Some kind of homemade cherry liquor. Packed quite a punch...
Even though this stuff was kind of thick, it still evaporated almost immediately when drank. There were real blueberries in it and they were like little alcohol bombs. It was a pleasant buzz and I did not feel nearly as bad the next day as I would have expected, which is not to say that I felt 100%, because I didn't.
I thought you were a wine guy.
+1 eternal damnation
Do you wanna feel how hard I can punch?
Take the nails out first, please.
INRI = Initiate Nail Removal Immediately
INRI = I Need Rapid Intervention
INRI = Initiate Nail Removal Immediately
INRI = I Need Rapid Intervention
Gah, looks like the squirrelz came out of exile!
*Jazz Hands*
Midnight Moon sells a cranberry shine that's like that, complete with the alcohol bombs. It's good, but I don't think it's worth the money.
That's the stuff! Only mine was blueberry.
If it's sold legally, it's not moonshine, it's un-aged whiskey.
Almost blueberry-picking season. Can't wait. This year, I think we'll pick more than 20 pounds.
One at a time?
How do you pick blueberries?
Advertise it as an "agriculture education" activity for city kids and their parents will actually pay you to let them pick your crop.
Well done.
This is actually a thing:
http://www.pickyourown.org/
Take the blue ones, leave the green ones.
I endorse this method. Also, the kids go with us.
You are training your kids as overseers of orphan blueberry-pickers? Nicely done!
You are training your kids as overseers of orphan blueberry-pickers? Nicely done!
Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime. Teach a man how to oversee orphan slaves uhhh *sounds of whip being applied to comment crafting orphan*
I've got a couple bushes of wild blueberries in the backyard. Only get a few cups per season, but it's enough to keep the kid entertained.
Meh blueberries, I'm more excited for the raspberries. If I had any kids to use as a cheap source of labor I'd send em out amongst the thorny brambles.
Jesus H. Christ brewing water into booze for big ass wedding party.
The only proper moonshine I have had was made by a Polish guy in New York city. I think there is a lot of that sort of thing as well.
Home distilling seems like it would be an amusing hobby if not for the potential legal problems.
Oh yeah. You can make some bad ass cask strength whiskey with corn sugar, a carboy, a britta filter and some toasted oak chips. About 3 quarts per 5 gallons of mash. Errr... So i've heard. Vodka is even easier. Just run your distillation through the filter, add clean water and redistill. And this is with crappy stills made of homemade junk.
The day they make home stills legal, I'm going on kickstarter with a nice 5 gallon electric pot still with good temperature controls an automatic heads diverter using a methanol sensor and a tailings collector using an ethanol sensor. I figure the model wil cost me about $800 depending on materials and whether I can use a single Arduino controller for the heads/products/tails segregation.
But I am banned at home from doing any further exploration while it remains illegal.
Someone's beat you to it. My brother recently bought a small still on eBay -- simpler than your proposal, but still.
Oh, you can buy the ones that are essentially pressure cookers with a copper neck on ebay. It works, but it loses a lot and the temperature control (which controls the strength of the distillate) is poor.
It'd be smart to have your plan in place to go when the prohibition on home distilling is finally dropped. I think there will be quite a market for advanced home stills on that day.
I don't think the prohibition on home distilling will ever be dropped. It's almost as old as the country itself, being that George Washington signed it.
Ol' George had a still at Mt. Vernon.
Ol' George had a still at Mt. Vernon.
Yep. A big operation that sold taxed whiskey.
Ol' George decided to smash the guy with whiskey taxation. Rebellion !!
You know who else bought pressure cookers? But seriously, those assholes made things more difficult for certain hobbyists.
I did? a 23 qt one.
I call it "Big Bertha".
The real problem is obtaining distiller's yeast which survives to a much higher alcohol level than wine or beer yeast. The higher the ABV of the distiller's beer, the more productive the distillation.
You can culture your own yeast, but it's a PITA and can lead to awkward situations.
"T-dog, why does your house smell like a bakery? A really gross bakery?"
Because your mom has a hell of a yeast infection?
Yow!
EC 1118, available at any place that sells brewing supplies. Champagne yeast can handle up to 18% alcohol. I've used it when I wanted to make a dry fruit wine (which would make an awesome brandy).
Most commercial distilleries only ferment their distiller's beer to 8%. When the yeast is stressed, like when the alcohol level is high, then it can produce esters and other off flavors.
Most commercial distilleries only ferment their distiller's beer to 8%
So it's as distilled as Shriek's derp.
Saccharomyces Derpus
Ahhh ha ha ha
They sell distillers yeast on Amazon Prime.
Champagne yeast will get you well over 10% especially if you give it nutrients and boosters. I made some Stawberry wine rocket fuel last year that was around 16%.
Alcotec 48-hour Turbo Yeast.
Try Amazon.com
http://www.brewhaus.com/
"The only proper moonshine I have had was made by a Polish guy in New York city."
..I got nothing.
Moonshine is the most godawful swill imaginable. I wouldn't sentence Shriek, Tony or Bo to have to drink it. Unaged corn liquor tastes like rancid canned corn.
Let's not let the romance of whatever outlaw spirit it may or may not have had blind us to the fact that the stuff is just plain out awful.
There's nothing stopping you from aging the stuff. Get smoking chips, wrap them in foil and put them in the oven at 400 for an hour. Put about 1/4 of a glass jar's worth of chips, fill the rest with raw shine, swirl around once a week. Ages about 1 cask year for every month.
You can also buy ageing casks. A guy was selling those at the local wine expo using the tag "Legal Moonshine" and telling people they could add flavoring to cheap vodka and age it, ending up with good tasting whiskey. My first reaction was "BS", then I realized he had constructed a very plausible story which allowed him to supply the home distilling market.
Whiskey straight from the still isn't much different than vodka. It gets most of its flavor from the wood.
THis.
Also, here in the land of bourbon, I have sampled some very good moonshine, and some very poor moonshine.
More often than not, it's like kerosene, but some of the better stuff is like a vodka variant.
The mixed stuff like apple pie, is the best way to drink it.
I wouldn't try it unless I knew the guy making it knew to toss the head and the tail.
Yeah, in my case, I've gotten it 2nd hand through people who've been sampling already.
At the grocery store the other day, I saw Jack Daniels smoking chips. They chop up the barrels and sell them.
I might be interested in some homemade Jack.
blind us to the fact
If deliberate, that was very clever.
Your taste is your own, of course, but have you ever had any decent moonshine?
I don't see what you did there. No more homemade umeshu for me.
Ha!
Who said that??
*swears to never again have homemade liquor that a Romanian immigrant, tile installation crew in Chicago was passing around*
I've had corn liquor and I've tried Old Smokey. Thought both tasted horrible.
Bill has not had any of the good stuff. Moonshine can be good....ok, not good but drinkable.
I had some pretty decent moonshine just yesterday.
Why are illegal moonshiners still a thing?
As someone who is proud to have moonshiners and bootleggers on both sides of my family, let me shed some light on that. When prohibition ended it didn't end everywhere; the repeal allowed counties to remain "dry" and some did and remained so for a long time thereafter. You still have to pay revenue tax on distilled spirits and some people just don't like that (moonshining was also a thing back in the old countries of Scotland and Ireland for much the same reason). Some people just like unaged corn liquor. Some people just like defying the government. Some people would rather by 'shine locally than have to drive to a liquor store. Some people (generally Baptists) don't want to be seen going into the liquor store. And just because, of course.
Interesting trivia: Mountain Dew (the soft drink) is that color because it's the same color as bad moonshine which has been distilled using a car radiator as the condenser; the color is the residual antifreeze which is really bad for you in large quantities. Thus, there is some truth to the Moonshine=Deadly Poison propaganda poster, but it also elides that its government regulation which makes it deadly.
A lot of the poisoning came from people in Prohibition stealing large quantities of denatured alcohol and trying to distill or filter the poisons and doing so badly.
That, too. Didn't have time for a treatise, but most folks here know the difference between methanol and ethanol.
"The Plant" in the town in which I grew up used full-strength ethanol in one of the processes. The old timers would just walk up to the truck, tin cup in hand, and pour themselves a shot. The plant is now closed, but I'm sure the nannies would have put a stop to that.
I've read that the Soviet Army used to use ethanol in its vehicles in place of things like brake fluid oil because for them, it was much cheaper. But then the bored, conscripted soldiers would drain that shit and drink it, and that much of the Soviet military capacity was incapacitated by this most of the time. So if there had ever been a conventional ground war, their forces would have been fucked royally.
Don't know if it's confirmed but it all sounds pretty plausible to me.
A coworker of mine who happens to be a Marine said the same thing. Though I'm not sure how true it is, being that the guy is a bullshitter who must always top whatever you say.
Ethanol can be pretty corrosive, and is not a natural lubricant.
I think I learned that from REAMDE.
IIRC, Viktor Belenko, the Soviet defector, confirmed this in the biography "MiG Pilot."
Supposedly happened to the Hungarian Army in the early 1980s - I don't think the CAV CSM telling me that was bullshitting me.
Any ridiculous shit involving Russian men and drinking is plausible.
Or people not tossing the first runnings. That's where the methyl is.
Ah...thanks. I'm separated by at least a generation from that.
If you're seriously considering this, then for fuck's sake do some serious research. There's more than just ethanol in the brew. There's methyl alcohol (the head) which is just plain dangerous, then there are heavier alcohols called fusel oils (the tail) which contribute to the hangover but also carry much of the taste. That's why rum will fuck you up the next day. They keep much of the tail to give it flavor, which also gives you a headache. Whereas vodka and whiskey keep only the middle. Well, quality vodka and whiskey discard the head and the tail. Then there's the fact that the slightest leak can cause an explosion which could kill you. Little things like that. Distilling alcohol isn't a game. Playing around could get you blind or dead, not to mention locked up.
Thanks, Sarc, but I have no interest whatsoever in doing that myself.
I know enough about the risks and hassle factor to know it's not something I wish to pursue. Beer making was bad enough with all the washing and sterilizing and more washing. I can't see adding another step to that process, given the risks.
And I've seen enough of the old-timers who got into bad 'shine to know I don't want to mess with it.
But thanks for the explanation on the fusel oil. Ian Fleming mentioned the Russian custom of putting pepper in dodgy vodka to absorb the fusel oil and precipitate it out.
yeah...and your point is? anything that potentially explodes, will fuck your head up and could also maybe kill you...is legitimate grounds for FUN...lay on McDuff
Mountain Dew (the soft drink) is that color because it's the same color as bad moonshine which has been distilled using a car radiator as the condenser
That's why it's so EXTREME!!!!!!!
DO THE DEW
Don't pretend like you don't Do The Dew.
In my youth, I was a horrific Dew addict. I would drink a liter after gym class and it would make me sleepy in Calculus class because I was so addicted to caffeine. Good thing I could do calculus in my sleep.
I stopped finally in college. By smoking tons of weed.
While I am personally a crab juice guy, many have been known to drink Mountain Dew to wash down their khlav kalash.
" I am personally a crab juice guy"
This what I dont even
That's not 'juice'. Unless 'Crab' is a fruit.
So no clamato for you, Gilly?
I also find Michelada's to be a blasphemous concoction.
Although V8 is great for hangovers.
No way, man. 'Cheladas are awesome. And red-eyes and pretty much anything involving beer and tomato juice.
Pretty sure this is a Simpson's reference.
nice catch Nid. From The City of New York vs. Homer Simpson
Homer Simpson: Now, what do you have to wash that awful taste out of my mouth?
Khlav Kalesh Guy: Mountain Dew or Crab Juice.
Homer Simpson: Blecch! Ew! Sheesh! I'll take a crab juice.
Ahh.. the one with the Square Watermelon for $50
No, that was Japan. Still.
It's the one with the World Trade Center. I wonder if they have had that one in reruns since 2001.
Their depiction of the clotheslines with drying laundry hanging between the twin towers was a scream, as well as the guys in dago-t's hanging out the windows of one tower shaking their fists and cursing at similar guys hanging out the windows of the opposite tower. Or the only public toilet being on top floor of one tower and Homer gets to it only to see a sign saying "out of order. use other tower."
It would be a shame if they've removed that episode from circulation because people can't handle jokes about the WTC (even though the episode was of course from long before 9/11).
I'm wearing my Mountain Dew shirt right now. One of them, anyway.
That's cultural appropriation x2. Well-done.
I'm not only a client, I'm the club president!
I don't know the law, but I think something has changed recently to account for the growing number of craft distilleries springing up around the country.
Actually, you can thank President Jimmy Carter for that. He signed legislation that finally allowed regular people to brew their own beer at home (although it didn't become legal in backward states like Alabama until 2013). This will likely go down as Jimmy Carter's only positive contribution to the world.
Along with deregulating trucking and airlines.
Jimmy Carter gets a bad rap. He was probably better than any other serious Democratic presidential contender in the last half-century.
Plus, a lot of the problems of the Carter administration came from shit that Ford and Nixon did which really manifested under the Carter Administration, particularly the price regulations on gasoline.
Yeah, carter was pretty far from what you'd call a lefty-progressive type today. Especially fiscally. He wasn't a very effective leader, but his political positions were not so terrible.
Enough with the Carter nostalgia. He was a statist fuck who isn't as crazy as the current Democrats and the political circumstances of the time meant the worst things he advocated weren't implemented.
Carter's reorganization efforts separated the Department of Health, Education and Welfare into the Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services
The Head Start program was expanded, with the addition of 43,000 children and families,[6] while the percentage of nondefense dollars spent on education was doubled
In April 1976, Carter proposed health care reform that included key features of the bipartisan bill for universal national health insurance[a] sponsored by Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA).
In 1977, Carter convinced the Democratic Congress to create the United States Department of Energy (DoE) with the goal of conserving energy. Carter set oil and natural gas price controls,
Carter did this by phasing out government control of oil allocation.[46] During his "malaise" speech he asked Congress to impose a "Windfall Profit Tax". One of the main reasons Carter called for the tax was due to the deregulation of the oil industry, which in the eyes of members of the Carter administration, would increase the profits of oil companies to an "undeserving" level.
Carter, like Nixon, asked Congress to impose price controls on energy, medicine, and consumer prices, but was unable to secure passage of such measures due to strong opposition from Congress
Reagan was much better? WOD, raising the drinking age to 21, record deficits, etc...
Derp. Where did I mention Reagan?
record deficits
As supposed to Carter's non-existent budget surpluses.
At least Reagan didn't try to poison the marijuana supply.
That was brewing, not distilling.
I think they might have made it easier to get a small scale distilling license, but you still definitely need to be licensed and pay all the taxes.
Yes, I realized my error after posting...
A lot of them aren't necessarily doing their own distillations. Instead, they're buying distilled product from a company, and then blending and aging them.
Hipster culture is driving craft distilling. The law hasn't changed. They're refugees from microbrewing.
Then a redeeming facet of hipsterism has been found!
Ironic?
My Grandad ran moonshine after WWII(there was still a state prohibition). Said he made enough money working weekends to pay off his new semi-truck in six months. Quit after he almost got killed running from revenuers, but said local LEOs never gave him any problems because one of his regular deliveries went to a country club where the Sheriff and superior court judge were members.
Also, more proof of how great the free market is. A lot of those rednecks and hillbillies had very good business relationships with urban blacks back in the day.
Also, many of the old-school US racecar drivers got their start running 'shine.
Many? I thought they all did.
I'm cautious about using absolutes when I'm not sure.
For an excellent read on the American culture in which moonshine developed read Horace Kephart's "Our Southern Highlanders". http://www.gutenberg.org/ebook.....e_stranger
I just think of Dukes of Hazzard. And the recent commercial that used some footage from that, but nothing showing the roof of their car.
One of my favorite episodes(and a a point which has been alluded to above) was when Bo and Luke found some slot machines and wanted to set up a gambling house.
Uncle Jesse: You can't do that. Gambling's illegal.
Bo/Luke: That never stopped you from making shine.
Uncle Jesse: That's different. The Duke's have been making whiskey since before there was a federal government to tell us we couldn't do it.
My god, can you imagine a network making that show today?
It's time to revive it and Hogan's Heroes for Offensive to Someone Tuesday.
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God bless Junior Johnson.
Moonshine can fuck you up, bitches. Always KNOW your brewer. Methanol can make your brain hurt.
A dude I drink with offered me his grandpa's moon and I drank it and as a dude who does all sorts of drugs I thought it tasted like lacqeur thinner and did drink like 3 shots and then found out that my limbs turned into an octipus... I think grandpa's mooon was pretty strong and made my brain wonder but we drove to a local club and we had done cocaine and some pills and lots of booze and then those trails started. I am always try to behave when tripping... I don't like law enforcement and bouncers so i trip in public rather quietly but internally violently and like a motherfucking dying sun explosioning all sorts of shits brain turds everywhere and all but who the fuck really cares.... it's personal and I'm not even sure why the fuck these fingers are typing all those letters on that screed...
You don't say...
carl checks my fucking head static
drug war on planet earth has failed. It destroys. and helps not a single fucking whit anywhere in spite of the special conservatives that this fucking site seems to love.
Socialist progressives HAVE created and been part of myriad laws that have fucked the planet over drug-wise but the wonderful conservative who loves the lord and freedom is where all this shit STARTS and ENDS... the conservative desires to save the family, the church, and save the lost soul from those nasty habits... the progressive generally dislikes that shit but tolerates its to a greater degree...
FUCK conservatives and their FUCKING values. I've never met a conservative that wasn't either a liar or a fucking hypocrite trying to 'live right' but they fucking can't because those fucking dumbasses are humans and the lord hasn't opened their eyes to that fact.
FUCK socialist and their FUCKING government cock-sucking. I've never met a fucking goddamn socialist that thought government was a total fucking disaster. Government is the progressive deity and if it 'fails' it can be 'fixed'. Check, Chicago and Detroit, please. Both of which require NOTHING from your standard socialist bullshit to fix and rather creative political thought that lies far outside NORMAL political construct that has NOTHING to do with right/left and everything to do with the arts of the universe.
Drug usage remains at an all-time low on Mars, though.
And, simultaneously, an all time high. Pun intended.
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Microstill offers a new experience when it comes to home distillation. It's a home appliance that easily fits into the kitchen shelf. It runs fully automated and does not require prior knowledge.
http://www.microstill.net
My father was a probation officer and would tell you that his pot heads were the easiest guys on his case load. He would tell you he'd rather have 100 of them than 10 drunk drivers because pot heads were pretty mellow and not getting into fights and other ancillary issues with the law.
The only problem he had with them was that a lot of them would fail drug tests because pot would stay in their system for a long time so if they slipped up they had to sweat it out much longer than drunks or coke heads.
-1 Gibson Guitar
Please tell me you drank that while arguing about the distance two bocce balls were from scoring closest!