Black Open Carry: Why Gun Rights and Civil Rights Need Each Other

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Black Open Carry: Why Gun Rights and Civil Rights Need Each Other

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"We are proposing armed self-defense as it relates to the situation with black people here in America when it comes to dealing with police departments," says Charles Goodson, founder of the Huey P. Newton gun club, an open carry group based in Dallas. 

Reason TV attended a meeting of the gun club and spoke to Goodson and others about their goals and how they hope to accomplish them. And historian Thaddeus Russell talked about the long, intertwined history of the gun rights and civil rights movements, from slave revolts to Reconstruction-era armed resistance to the Black Panther Party.

"One of the great untold stories about the civil rights movement was that it required violent resistance from blacks to be effective," says Russell.

Approximately 7 minutes. Produced by Zach Weissmueller. Music by Tim Sky and Flausch Gau.

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Comments

[Mock-star]

Speaking of gun rights, I wonder how Hollis v. Holder is going to come down. Get on it, Reason.

[Roger Wilco]

So why is the youtube video private? I downloaded and watched the .MOV - great stuff, needs to be available on the youtubes

[Heroic Mulatto]

So why is the youtube video private?

Because it would scare the ever-living shit out of the cranky old White guy whose entire wardrobe consists of cargo shorts, photographer's vest, white tee-shirt with bald eagle and obnoxiously jingoistic slogan, and a CVN-65 ball cap demographic that makes up about 15 to 25 percent of Reason's reader demographic?

Jus' sayin'

[Bardas Phocas]

Walter Sobchak?

[Heroic Mulatto]

From my mind, to your lips, to God's ears, my friend.

[Bardas Phocas]

Well, this isn't Nam.

[Charles Easterly]

There are rules.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Da fuck you got against cargo shorts?

[Win Bear]

You're, of course, referring to yourself with that description.

[Wicked Skin]

While everybody, EVERYBODY, has the inalienable right to armed self defense, damn if I wouldn't be scared of carrying if my skin tone was a few shades darker.

I mean the pigs shot a kid with a toy gun and another dude buying a pellet rifle in a freaking walmart. The pigs shoot black dudes with cellphones or beat the shit out of kids with a bottle of Mountain Dew.

[Jack Strawb]

Count on it. Various police forces assassinated and decapitated the original Black Panther party when it began open carrying. There isn't a chance in hell black Americans are going to be allowed to open carry in any numbers.

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[Paul.]

It's as if a million progressive voices cried out, and then were silenced.

[BiPolarMoment]

D'ya got a permit for that silencer?

[Paul.]

Gun KKKontrollers!

[Paul.]

You know who else passed gun control regulations when the populace marched on a capitol with guns?

[Choadintheroad]

Your mother?

[The Late P Brooks]

Talk about going off the plantation...

[SimonJester]

I see what you did there.

[Vampire]

"One of the great untold stories about the civil rights movement was that-----snip--- the government enforced slavery, then the black codes and the jim crowe laws through violence. One of the other untold stories, is how ineffective the government was at securing "the blessings of liberty" as it took the government 89 years to "end" slavery and another 75 years to "end" the jim crow laws that followed the black codes of 1800-1866.

As Stormy Dragon mentioned in another thread, the gov't jumps in front of the parade. They and pretend they are the heroes that ended slavery and segregation, while ignoring the many years it took to end these two atrocities they created.

The only way liberty can be respected is through the private production of security and defense, and folks that work in these industries are subjected to the voices and choices of individuals in the market. There would be no qualified immunity just because someone throws on a costume and are told they are of more importance than others, and their bad behavior can be protected even if they have to sit at a desk for their remaining years while the family is forced to pay the officers salary despite them harming or killing the families loved one to include their pet.

[Paul.]

Only government can stop imprisoning homosexuals.

[Jack Strawb]

You neglected the reinstitution of Jim Crow through Rockefeller drug laws and their ilk beginning in 1973.

That was all of nine years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act. In that period Evers, King, Malcolm, and RFK were assassinated.

Jim Crow never ended.

[Drake]

I would not be surprised if a cop acting crazy is shot in self-defense by a citizen in 2015 - on video. And it finally sparks a real national debate on police behavior.

[mad.casual]

@2:45 - "There's no question that Huey P Newton and the Black Panther Party launched the modern gun rights movement. We give credit to the NRA, usually, but that's not the case."

Really Reason? No question? I've no objections to the Huey P. Newton Gun Club (outside maybe the shadier aspects of the Black Panther Party just as I would be leery of a Martin McGuinness Gun Club or less leery about a Frederick Douglass Gun Club).

I do object to the notion that the NRA, influential well before the Panthers, and still cleaning up the anti-gun mess that proliferated in the wake of the Panthers, is magically less responsible for launching any modern movement.

[Choadintheroad]

Keep objecting, dummy. I guess you know better than the NRA themselves, you fuckig moron.

From the NRA's website:
http://www.nrahq.org/history.asp

*************
In response to repeated attacks on the Second Amendment rights, NRA formed the Legislative Affairs Division in 1934. While NRA did not lobby directly at this time, it did mail out legislative facts and analyses to members, whereby they could take action on their own. In 1975, recognizing the critical need for political defense of the Second Amendment, NRA formed the Institute for Legislative Action, or ILA.
*********

1975 is when the NRA started doing anything more than 'mailing out facts and analyses.' 1967 is when the Black Panthers began their armed citizen patrols, making them the first group of 'open carry patriots.' All of this information is available online and you wouldn't end up making suck a cockhole of yourself if you knew how to fucking use google.

[mad.casual]

The only way you get the Panthers as more active in any gun rights movement is by drawing circuitous lines around *modern* *gun rights* and *movement* and falsely ascribing motives to people who didn't have them and didn't care for them one iota except as a means to greater personal and/or political end. You would end up calling the Party a lobbying organization than what it actually was. Might as well call the Weather Underground a forerunner to the modern political think tank.

California and the US at large was more free to own guns prior to the acts of the Black Panthers and less so when the Black Panthers ceased to exist. It has gotten better in more modern times thanks to the *litigation* and *lobbying* done by the NRA. Considering gun ownership (esp. for any/all) was not an explicit aim of the Panthers, it could just as well be argued that they kicked of the modern gun control movement as well.

If you could stop and ask yourself 'Am I, without question, sucking a dick?' you might leave yourself and others a little room to avoid constantly sucking dick.

[SimonJester]

WEATHER UNDERGROUND WAS A FORERUNNER TO THE ODERN POLITCAL THINK TANK!

Do I get a cookie?

[Choadintheroad]

Says the man who's too busy sucking NRA dick to actually digest any of the facts. Dumbass.

[Choadintheroad]

In May 1967, two dozen Black Panther Party members walked into the California Statehouse carrying rifles to protest a gun-control bill, prompting then-Gov. Ronald Reagan to comment, "There's no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons."

[mad.casual]

The Black Panther Party first publicized its original Ten-Point program on May 15, 1967, following the Sacramento action, in the second issue of the Black Panther newspaper.

Not a single mention of freer or equal access to firearms or defence in any of the 10 points. Either they cared so immensely as to set it aside from the rest of their cause or they cared much like their predecessors did.

The Sullivan Act in 1911 is widely regarded as having sought to deprive Italian immigrants of their right to bear arms. The same immigrants formed organizations to oppose these laws among others.

Calling any/all of them gun rights advocates would be seriously misguided because it not only didn't fit their goals, but their actions precipitated further legislation (i.e. the NFA/FFA) which the were unwilling and/or unable to oppose.

Giving the Panthers credit for *launching* the modern gun rights movement *without question* is like giving Von Braun sole credit for *launching* the space race and ignoring "details" like Goddard, Kennedy, and the Soviet Union.

[Choadintheroad]

Oh, Jesus you really have difficulty comprehending things. It is completely irrelevant why the Black Panthers openly carried guns and opposed gun control. Point is they did, publicly, and subsequently the NRA followed suit. How the fuck is this controversial?

[mad.casual]

How the fuck is this controversial?

You say it yourself two sentences before this question. The only way you realistically throw the black panthers into the gun right movement is if you ignore their larger motivations.

The only way you arrive at them *launching* the movement is if you ignore their larger motivations but consider the wider motivations of previous revolutionary enterprises (Like the victims of the Sullivan Act) that lived by the gun or trivially declare them non-modern (Like Frederick Douglass and John Brown).

It's not controversial. The NRA widely adopted and supported methods little related to the methods used by the Panthers and made greater inroads in support of the 2nd Am. in modern times. Last time I checked, the NRA was best described as divided about adopting the open carry movement and decidedly opposed to sit in or occupy-type movements. To say the issue is without question should *always* be controversial.

[mad.casual]

That is to say, conflating the first, second, and 14th Am. as well as wider race issues should be just as controversial now as it was when SCOTUS did it in US v. Cruikshank in 1876.

Saying the 2nd Am. requires/needs the 14th dsisregards the cart in front of the horse in favor of the color of the horse. It unnecessarily predicates the 2nd Am. as a function of an oppressed person's race rather than their oppression.

[JohnQ]

Do folks really believe the 2nd amendment is alive, well and functioning as law of the land? Is this like a religious belief or something? Where do people get these ideas?
Now here's a piece of Constitutional trivia for you. The 3rd amendment is still law of the land in its entirety. I kid you not. It has never been repealed or watered down by subsequent legislation. Mysteriously, we are not required to billet soldiers in our homes. When asked about this anomaly, legislators just scratch their heads and say "I don't know how we missed that one.
Constitutional scholars have recommended that the SCOTUS declare that yards are not homes, and make folks billet soldiers in their yards. You know... just so we don't have this one odd amendment hanging out all alone and being law of the land, as it would only serve to confuse our next generation of lawyers.

[Choadintheroad]

Are you saying the 2nd amendment was 'alive' when black people weren't allowed to own guns? What a massive cunt you are.

[JohnQ]

(checking) No, I didn't say that. I said only the third amendment of the BoR is still in effect as law. (rechecking) Yes. I said that.

[mad.casual]

Of course you didn't say that. To people like Choadintheroad, race is more important than the 2nd Am. or anything you may or may not have said.

His indignation is your fault, but not because of anything you said or did. More importantly we can't be free until you, through no action you can take or even understand, absolve him of it.

[Choadintheroad]

mad.casual, that has nothing to do with it, you massive douchefuck. But now that you mention it, you are vageuly right about one thing. A someone who is 100% in favor of unregulated gun rights and 100% opposed to any control on people having guns. I don't give a flying fuck about the 2nd amendment. If the 2nd amendment had said there was no right to bear arms I would be shouting for it's repeal whatever the fuck the founding fathers wanted.

I'm merely saying that the 14th amendment IMPROVED the 2nd amendment, by entitling ALL Americans to carry guns. Anyone who thinks the 2nd amendment as written and enacted by the founding fathers was the be all and end all is a slavish toady who wants to live in the late 18th century. People like you wouldn't repeal an original amendment if it called for a daily assfucking.

[The artist known Dunphy]

Jesus, more collosal stupidity

Even if any fair %age of police shootings were unjustified, and of course only a tiny %age are ( and of course The Ferguson shooting now turns out to be almost certainly justified) , for every police shooting of a person of color there are tons more shootings of innocents by non-cops, primarily 'persons of color' as even Jesse Jackson admits

Black males are several times more likely to die from UNjustified homicide and even if police didn't shoot anybody for the next year, black males would still be several times more likely than most other demographics to be homicide victims

And of course most of them aren't JUSTIFIED homicide a la Ferguson

It takes a real ignorance of basic math to think the problem is police shootings

It's an easy target to wank about (despite the fact that the wankers are a small group and polls prove the vast majority of Americans think cops do a good job) vs. looking at the actual carnage that is common in places like Chicago, New Orleans etc

Anything to detract from the real problems that face society... CRIME AND VIOLENT CRIME ... And that as a nation we have made great inroads against

[kbolino]

The difference, you doped-up narcissistic fuckhead, is that criminals without badges go to jail while criminals with badges get paid vacations.

[woodNfish]

"The Ferguson shooting now turns out to be almost certainly justified"

There is absolutely no proof of that because there was no cross examination.

[Win Bear]

You don't need cross-examination in order to have proof. The grand jury looked at tons of evidence and witness statements and made a decision not to indict. That's what matters in determining whether the shooting was justified or not.

[Jack Strawb]

Moronic. The grand jury was led by the nose to the verdict the prosecutor wanted.

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[woodNfish]

Considering all the recent murders of unarmed blacks by pigs any black could reasonably assume that any pig approaching them intends to murder them and shooting the pig dead would be an act of self defense.

[Win Bear]

Nothing "recent" or unusual about it. Police kill roughly 1-2 people a day in the US, at a fairly constant rate over the last decade. The demographics of targets are pretty much representative of the demographics of violent criminals.

And if you shoot someone you know to be a police officer, you are pretty much automatically guilty of murder; that's not going to change by arming more people.

[Choadintheroad]

Why are you so fucking afraid of pigs? Pigs aren't that much of a threat at all to black people. Especially when you compare them to police officers, who are much more dangerous, that is, if my breakfast of eggs, bacon and pork sausage is anything to go by.