USDA v. Horne: Farmers Fight to Keep Their Own Raisins
"They want us to pay for our own raisins that we grew," says Raisin Valley Farms owner Marvin Horne. "We have to buy them back!"
This is but one absurdity that Marvin and his wife Laura have faced during their decade-long legal battle with the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). Every year, the Hornes plant seeds, tie vines, harvest fruit, and place grapes in paper trays to create sun-dried raisins. And every year, the federal government prevents them from bringing their full harvest to market.
It's called an agriculture marketing order. Depression-era regulations meant to stabilize crop prices endanger the livelihoods of small farmers across the country, but the raisin marketing order is particularly egregious. An elected board of bureaucrats known as the Raisin Administrative Committee decides what the proper yield should be in any given year in order to meet a previously decided-upon price. Once they can estimate the size of the year's harvest, they force every farmer to surrender a percentage of their crop to raisin packers. The packers then place the raisins in a "reserve pool," a special holding vat for raisins that cannot be sold in the U.S. Eventually, the packers can sell the reserve pool raisins overseas at highly discounted prices set by the government or funnel them into school lunch programs for next to nothing.
The farmers were always supposed to get a percentage of the money raised from the reserve pool raisins, but as profit margins dwindled over the years, so did the return to farmers. The tipping point came in 2003, when farmers received zero dollars in return for the 47 percent of the crop they had surrendered.
"You can't work for a whole year and then give 47 percent of what you made away and still keep that business afloat," says Laura Horne.
Frustrated and desperate, the Hornes started packing and selling their own raisins, which they believed would allow them to circumvent the marketing order. In doing so, they inadvertantly sparked a small revolution, as other independent raisin farmers saw their initial success and began to pack and sell, too. The government wasn't happy (neither was Sun-Maid).
The USDA saddled the Hornes with massive fines in addition to demanding payment for the raisins they had failed to surrender. Marvin Horne estimates his outstanding balance at close to a million dollars, a virtually insurmountable figure for a small, family-owned farm. The Hornes decided to fight back.
When the Hornes and
a few other raisin farmers tried to challenge the USDA's seizure of their crop without payment as an unconstitutional taking of property in violation of the Fifth Amendment, the government balked and said that the issue should be heard in a Federal Claims court, as the case had nothing to do with the taking of property but instead was a matter of the Hornes violating farming regulations and being fined for doing so. Remarkably, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with the USDA and declared that they had no jurisdiction in the case. Luckily for the Hornes, however, the Supreme Court took the case and ruled, in a 9-0 decision, that the 9th Circuit was mistaken and must consider the case on its constitutional merits.
And now, after nearly a decade of fighting, the Hornes must wait a little longer. This saga may well end in 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in the next few months, or the Hornes may one day soon find themselves before the Supreme Court once again. A favorable legal outcome is far from certain, but their raisins—and our property rights—depend on it.
Produced by Zach Weissmueller. Camera by Tracy Oppenheimer and Weissmueller. Music by Case Newsom.
About 7 minutes.
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The FDR administration: the gift that keeps on giving.
Just like Herpes.
A very cynical part of me assumes there must be some subsidies involved in this cluster fuck that somehow justifies the govmint thinking it can run the raisin business.
Interstate commerce, bitches.
Trigger Warning: old comments
Reason was running out of material again.
Jesus H. Fuck me. Now I have a headache.
Brezhnev's Ghost laughs.
Looks like the joke is on us.
You didn't build that!
You didn't build grow that!
Let this be an example of how laws never go away. There are no temporary measures. Every politician who ever says that they just need it this one time is either lying or stupid.
Wife had a great idea for a constitutional amendment.
ALL laws must have a sunset clause of not longer than 7 years.
Forcing the idiots to repass every fucking law out there every 7 years.
a. It gets rid of bad legislation.
b. It allows the opportunity to fix the bad parts of needed legislation.
c. It gives these assholes something to do other than coming up with NEW shit to regulate.
I'm on board, but only if we make that 3 years.
I'll lead the charge in Canada.
That's a good description: Force the assholes to face the unintended consequences of their actions.
Somehow, Canada just seems to pass a lot less laws. Or at least it seems so.
Sounds like you Canadians don't have enough legislators. So you obviously are unable to govern. Until the Canadian government is as big as Canada, you're just some lawless frozen version of Somalia.
you Canadians don't have enough legislators.
If only that were the problem.
"Canada just seems to pass a lot less laws."
Why do Canadians hate the childrenz?
Why do Canadians hate the raisons?
Forcing the idiots to repass every fucking law out there every 7 years.
Nah, they'll just gavel through an omnibus bill repassing every law on the books.
Now, if they can't vote to pass or repass a law without reading it out loud on the floor of the House and Senate first, we might get somewhere. And no delegating; the sponsors of the law have to read it out loud personally.
Can they read it allowed while being molested by Mr. T? Because I'd be on board for that. Then you know they really really really believe in the law.....or enjoy that sort of thing.
Lol, I doubt less than half of Congress can actually read out loud.
I've been suggesting this for years, and being a generous fool, thought 21 years would be appropriate. BUT: They my Amendment has a catch, you can't use the same wording, nor can you combine existing statutes, nor can you delegate any authority to regulators; every bleeping word has to be debated on the House floor, and on the Senate floor.
This will never pass, but here's an alternative idea:
Remember the budget fight of 2011? That was resolved with an agreement to create blue-ribbon panel to study the defecit situation and come up with a "real" solution, otherwise, taxes would automatically rise and the sequester would kick in. Of cours,e the blue ribbon panel couldn't come up with an agreement, so the sequester/tax-hikes went into effect, and everyone could blame the other side.
So here's what I propose. You set up a fight over the farm bill, and you resolve it by setting a provision that will sunset all depression era farm programs UNLESS congress can agree to an alternative bill. Then you sit on your hands and make sure that no new bill is agreed to.
This might come at the cost of (say) increases to federal food stamp programs, but it would be worth it. Food stamps can always be cut later.
d. It gives them yet another opportunity to stuff existing legislation even more full of graft, cronyism, and pork.
I'm sure they'll like option d, so it might have a chance of passing.
Seriously, that's not a bad idea, but like anon said, 7 years is too long, and I don't think it should give them the opportunity to amend it, or else they will probably always amend it in the wrong way, iow, add to it, not take away.
How about we match that with another amendment that every time they pass a new law, they must repeal one.
Also no more fucking omnibus, cromnibus, megabus, corrouptofuckingbus bills.
Exactly. Everything sunsets. Make them work for value and true necessity.
Government of the top men; by the top men; for the top men.
"Remarkably, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals agreed with the USDA"
Please...know you nothing of the Ninth Circus?
I saw that too. Everyone knows that the 9th Circuit is a freak show, except for the 9th Circuit.
Aside from the satanically destructive agenda of the FedGov in this case, is the disparity in ability to litigate between the FedGov and the peon citizen. It costs nothing for the government to throw dozens of lawyers at this and spend millions in costs to try to enforce their rules. On the other hand, Joe Citizen can't afford to defend his rights against the juggernaut.
Nothing left to cut from the federal budget!
THIS IS WHY THE ECONOMY IS RAGING BACK TO LIFE LIKE A TEENAGE BONER!
/Shreeek
Once they can estimate the size of the year's harvest, they force every farmer to surrender a percentage of their crop to raisin packers like Sun-Maid.
This is what the geniuses running the government during the Depression came up with. Think about that. This was their "solution". They were stupider than dirt, and people are probably even more ignorant and stupid now because of shoddy education. TOP MEN indeed.
My mother-in-law is a staunch FDR defender and goes along with the Democrat line most of the time. I love baiting her with stuff like this.
So is mine, but I don't bother. She's been pimping FDR for 70 years. What could I possibly say that would change her 83 year old mind and what do I stand to gain from that?
what do I stand to gain from that?
That depends on the relationship between your wife and your mother-in-law.
The M-i-L thinks I'm fucking awesome, a real mensch, because we don't talk politics. I plan on keeping that way.
Seriously, I had a squad of octogenarians, at a cook-out recently, waxing about how great FDR was. Me opening my big, fat mouth on how much he sucked would have had ZERO traction. Why bother?
Just smile and nod your head and move slowly to the bar.
At one point, I realized I only talk politics with leftist friends to make them feel bad (of course it's right to intern Japanese! the solution to a food shortage is to seize it and burn it! you ratified the drone program by supporting Obama again, it was all out in the open a year before the election!)
Wise, JW.
Two (well, three) words:
Trusts and Estates.
Two: TRUMAN NUKES
Two: LBJ/JFK Vietnam
Four: Obama Afghanistan Libya Syria
They conveniently leave out this sort of thing when teaching about how Saint Roosevelt saved the world in the government indoctrination centers.
Leave it out? I guarantee you the FDR-fluffers that teach 6th graders know next to nothing about what happened back then, especially little details like this. We've all seen their horrific ignorance.
It's way easier to love someone when you don't know them.
Which, also related, is why I think people hate their wives.
"It's way easier to love someone when you don't know them."
You see that with sports "heroes". A lot of guys were idolized that today would be demonized because there is nothing now that they can do or say that isn't know by everyone 5 minutes after it happens.
They know about Japanese internmant camps. Which make American just like Nazi Germany. Except they manage to remain oblivious to the fact that FDR was president at the time. Apparently the internment camps just emerged out of Americas evilness, whole cloth. Roosevelt had nothing to do with it.
When I was in school, they way it was generally taught was that FDR set up the New Deal, whereas the United States set up internment camps.
FDR was wildly popular in his time even though his policies were inconsistent and not pinned down by any philosophical principles other than "WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING".
Why would you expect those in the current times to delve any deeper into the history of the times besides that which the victors wrote?
And I don't get it. It was 12 years of absolute misery.
So what, he told people their lives/economy were improving, even though they weren't, and they loved him for it? When nearly EVERY measure he took served to prolong the agony, they praised him for his good intentions?
I wonder if this model could be used again?
Are you suggesting that Obama is following the same model. Of course the suggestion isn't really needed since Obama and the left have all talked about how he is just like FDR, they have also said he is just like JFK and Lincoln and Regan and Trayvon. I just wish we knew which president we were getting on any given day. I think we are getting Trayvon on most days.
No, I think Obama is too incompetent even to be deliberately evil.
There were absolutely philosophical principles at play. Namely, the principle of arbitrary power for it's own sake. Lest you forget, FDR came out strongly in favor of Mussolini and his ideology of national power commanding economic outcomes. Corporatism and central planning were FDR's favorite pass-times.
Amazingly many leftists are taught about how horrible the Japanese internment camps were without ever making the connection that is was FDR who did the interning. They manages to simultaneously think FDR was a saint and also believe that America is an evil, evil, country that ran concentration camps, just like Hitler.
FDR was just following the advice of Top Men, you can't expect to hold him responsible for advice he received from another person, can you?
If a republican had done it, it would have been the fault of republicans. It wasn't, so America was at fault.
It's amazing we're still not culling pigs
We are, but for different reasons.
http://www.mlive.com/news/kala.....court.html
Isn't this how things worked, sorta, in the Middle Ages?
I'm wondering how this went on for 80 years without anybody bitching and...
The tipping point came in 2003, when farmers received zero dollars in return for the 47 percent of the crop they had surrendered.
So they were fine with the program for 70 years until they didn't get paid. It's kind of a wonder that we did go full socialist in the 30s.
I doubt they were fine with it. I would guess that they just didn't think they could fight and win, but now they're desperate enough to try.
We lurched towards full socialism back then to a similar degree as other countries, it's just that our starting point was much farther away from socialism than the others, so our endpoint was farther too. The lurch was huge, though, and got us where we are today.
Exactly, they were perfectly content to sit around and take subsidies until it reached ZERO. Then "uh oh, better fight this!" Fucking hypocrites. I hope they win their case but I also hope they lose their farm in the process.
I didn't read any subsidies mentioned, other than the magic of keeping prices up by giving raisins to the school lunch program so they would not have to buy them. (Wow, and how stupid is that)
What I read was that no one thought to fight it until they had no other choice besides bankruptcy.
The Orwellian order to pay the government for produce that was not surrendered to the government for which the farmer would be justly compensated in the princely sum of zero dollars is a priceless cherry on the shit sundae we are serving them.
"The Orwellian order to pay the government for produce that was not surrendered to the government for which the farmer would be justly compensated in the princely sum of zero dollars is a priceless cherry on the shit sundae we are serving them."
It's incredibly fucking depressing sometimes. Can the Leviathan ever be subdued?
Once every hundred-thousand years or so, when the sun doth shine and the moon doth glow.
Can the Leviathan ever be subdued?
Through innovation and competitive governance, yes. Things could be a lot worse-like they were in the '30s.
No, Leviathan must be periodically killed. It rises again of course, to grow and consume, until it is killed again starting the cycle again.
Quick, someone explain to me again how we have a "free market economy." That joke never gets old.
And fuck you, FDR, I hope you're enjoying burning in hell.
"I hope you're enjoying burning in hell"
I rather hope he is NOT enjoying it. Nor the rape by barbed penis wielding hellhounds.
"Enjoying" is a figurative/ sarcastic term in this case.
And hell for FDR would probably be some sort of libertopia where he doesn't get to play at being a fascist shitbag wannabe dictator, but he still has the desire to control everyone's life and the delusions of grandeur but not the power to actually do anything. Actually that's hell for most wannabe tinpot fascist progressive assholes.
I think in FDR's hell his wheelchair is sentient and horny.
In FDR's hell he has to make love to Eleanor every night.
I would question myself where FDR would go. Clearly, the bastard is unlikely to be in heaven, and Satan is unlikely to accept competition in hell, so I figure he must be in limbo.
"It's not unconstitutional under the Fifth Amendment because it's clearly a penaltax under the Congress taxing power."
/JohnnyRob
For a magazine called Raisin...wait, never mind.
So you're saying the Raisin Admin Committee is paneled by the giant brains from futurama, if I follow correctly.
Well, that's what I heard...through the grapevine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkbA3E363So
Wait a second.....it's raisin, not Raisin
And here I thought it was giant parasites from the raisin packing companies.
Raison?
An elected board of bureaucrats known as the Raisin Administrative Committee decides what the proper yield should be in any given year in order to meet a previously decided-upon price.
???
I have never, in nearly 30 years of life, seen a section on any ballot I've marked with candidates for Raisin Administrative Committee.
Mother-fucking-FDR strikes again.
From what I can tell, they're elected by industry members, which are dominated by a relatively small number of packers & growers. Sun-maid alone accounts for over a fifth of the members. It stinks of government enabled protectionism, with the big players in the protection racket using power granted by the government to force the small guys to play ball.
They are all "voluntary" co-operatives. You don't have to join them, but if you don't you have very few options for marketing for your produce.
Does the gov't still confiscate your excess raisins if you're not a member?
yep
So you can ignore the board's orders if you aren't a member of one of the co-ops? Are you sure about that?
Holy Helium Stewardship!
Yes, it's a "Marketing Order" that only members of the co-op have to follow. But not being a member of the co-op is basically not feasible due to other economic considerations.
That's not a protection racket. It's called a 'cartel'.
But how will the US will have 'Raisin Security' and a proper 'Raisin Reserve' without this program!!!
The US will be at the mercy of rapacious raisin raisers from Raisania!
You won't believe this, but last month my sister made $7869.25 as an International Raisin Speculator, working from home!
"International Raisin Speculator"
That makes a familiar acronym.
the orginization is based in France though, so it comes out as "SIR".
wait, no...*looks up 'raisin' in French*...oh shit, 'grape' is 'raisin', how'd I forget that....ok, so
Speculateurs Internationale des Raisin Seche or SIRS
True Story.
You should be proud, Bryan. Google shows that you are the first person on the internets to ever use the phrase "International Raisin Speculator."
All is proceeding as I have forseen.
But how many hours did she have to work?
Aresen raisins a very good point. But, haven't we always been at war with East Raisania?
I grew up in raisin country, just a few miles from the main Sun-Maid packing plant. Yes this stuff is supremely silly, but it's not limited to raisins. There is similar crap for most food crops in the US. If it was grown or raised in the 1930s, there are bundles of New Deal nuttiness governing their production and sale. As a kid I remembered seeing acres upon acres of rotting oranges because the growers were paid to destroy them.
Damn, you'd think tons of rotting produce would attract enough pests to reduce next year's harvest and prevent the whole silly exercise.
The oranges *did* attract crop-destroying pests...federal bureaucrats.
I for one am glad that people with no clue about agriculture have any, much less the final, say about how agriculture is practiced.
Why? Because I LIKE starving.
"Make Mine Milk"
with a milk mustache.
Unfortunately, it does not actually attract them to that spot. they would be easy to get rid of that way, but rather attracts their attention.
Well, I finally got one mystery solved. Why Sun Maid raisins are cheaper here in Taiwan than in the USA. The answer to why American cigarettes are only $15.00 per carton is obvious, but people here still complain about the high taxes on smokes.
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Computer generated spambot post or Agile Cyborg?
Either way, I'm impressed.
Only in California would people think this is okay.
After a short while the competition between personal greed and the desire to tell each an every American what and how much to harvest, what to eat and when to sleep, etc., comes into sharp focus. The government has no business injecting itself into personal freedoms. The government's job is to provide the collective protection of individual natural rights of person, liberty and property. At the moment the government is violently enforcing its own will based on its own greed and false philanthropy. http://coldwarwarrior.com/
Don't want government interference, then demand all government subsidies be removed.
Well yeah. Are you saying libertarian philosophy embraces subsidies?
Where are the liberal trolls on topics like this? They vanish like a fart.
Cases like this can't be used to justify more government power, it upsets their narrative.
How long before the FDA shows up with the Food SWAT Squad, kills their dog, tasers their kid and starts taking their raisins by force?
About 20 minutes.
This is what every knows is perennially fucked up about the Roosevelt-era farm programs. Half the time they were subsidizing farmers to lower prices, the other half of the time they pay people not to produce so that prices will rise, to prevent farmers from losing money. There are numerous products that are governed by bizarre quota systems that essentially keep prices high at the expense of consumers, to benefit what are now large industrialized farm operations, like Sun-Maid.
And yet we can't get rid of these programs because Sun-Maid can afford to pay congressmen millions of dollars to prevent the raisin program from ending, and nobody other than a handful of raisin farmers even knows this is happening.
Look, Raisin farmers don't need no stinkin rights. Raisins are our shared heritage!
On the other hand, does anyone really need a raisin?
I personally can live the rest of my life without another raisin. They are amazingly high in sugar content (a half-cup, really just a big handful or two, has 50 grams of sugar!) for the amount of flavor and texture they provide. Thought another way -- 1/2 cup of raisins is the same sugar content as three whole scoops of vanilla ice cream.
I don't care for them either. Let's ban them!
One of my little micro-peeves in life is when I pick up a cookie thinking it's chocolate chip and it turns out to be oatmeal raisin. And then you're stuck with it, because it's been in your hand.....
I think they should regulate excess dingleberries. Those really are a nuisance. And it's a task the federal government really is up to.
The answer: stealth guerrilla raisin production and sales?
Government wore a large section truths bully farmers, they like to do this kind of thing to bully people
This makes me feel a whole lot better about the Canadian government's termination of the wheat board's monopsony, and a whole lot angrier about the remaining market boards.
Holy shit, I just realize that most of the comments in this thread are 2 years old....
Another reason to end all farm subsidies and other Federal interference in the market.
Now here's something that a libertarian can appreciate. I've heard from reliable sources that this game will be banned in Australia.
Hangin Willie
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So Greece is having an Election today that looks like SYRIZA will win. Thoughts?
So SYRIZA won a landslide with 35-39% of the vote. A large plurality but probably not an outright majority (3rd place is being fought over by Nazis and Centrists). The first thing this government is going to do is "stand up to austerity". YEAH FUCK YOU REALITY! FUCK YOU CREDITORS AND GERMANS WHO ARE GIVING US BAILOUTS! I cannot wait to watch this. None of us should be sad over this outcome. Greece's 'austerity' drive was a farce and a pantomime. Greek public servants can't even be fired, so instead their pay is cut and they are sent to the equivalent of a rubber room. Unless the Germans go crazy generous (which I doubt) this should do to Greece and maybe even the whole Euro mess what the 'format disk' button does to your buggy mal-ware laden computer. I just want to watch the world the burn.
So what specific plans does SYRIZA have? More Free shit? Take the wealth of the rich?
I just want to watch the world the burn.
Uh huh.
I wouldn't be so sure. Syriza may have couched this stuff in terms of socialism, but I think he has simply figured out that Germany may not have a choice. German banks and corporations are going to pressure the German government to get the German tax payer to bail out Greece. The net result will be German and Greek workers making more similar after-tax salaries. Whoopee: integration and equality across Europe.
DERP. It must be my glitchy computer. Squirrels.
SYRIZA says they are going to end austerity. No more pay cuts. How? Not clear but it looks like they're going use 'will to power'.
I almost always think it is bad when a government that doesn't line up with my values wins power. I roll my eyes when I hear about how they will do so badly that it will serve as a lesson. This is the exception. This could start a wonderful chain reaction that sets Europe right. Right and lean.
From the CBC:
Tsipras has pledged to end the "national humiliation" of austerity by scrapping the cuts and raising the minimum monthly salary from ?586 to ?751 ($816 to $1,045), provide free power and food coupons to 300,000 households, raise the tax-free income threshold from ?5,000 ($6,960) to ?12,000 ($16,705), reverse public sector firings and liberalize labour laws.
But he also favours writing off most of Greece's debt, a burden he describes as "not just unbearable, it objectively cannot be repaid."
I bet the CBC is getting a boner there.
Liberalize labour laws? Interesting exception to the trend.
But he also favours writing off most of Greece's debt
It will be interesting to hear what Greece's creditors have to say about that.
And where are they going to get the money to increase salaries if their creditors stop lending them money?
They are going to play along because they don't have a choice; not playing along would be even more costly, in particular for banks and German corporations.
In the end, the Germans are just going to get taxed more to pay for this. And it's going to achieve what the EU was supposed to achieve: more equality across Europe. The voters in the richer nations just didn't realize how much this would cost them.
Of course, now that they do, this may backfire and result in a wave of xenophobia, unrest, or worse. But that's just European politics as usual. The few decades of peace and cooperation were the exception.
They are going to print Euros ... oh wait ...
Threadjack:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01.....0002&abg=1
Robert Shireman, a former Obama administration official and architect of the 2010 loan changes, says we are better off now that "how students make payments on student loans, and how much they need to pay, is no longer complicated by how the banks will feel about it."
Well, we wouldn't want trivial shit like future earnings prospects interfereing with college kids right to study basket weaving, now, would we?
Read the whole retarded article.
"Read the whole retarded article."
Ha ha no.
"The trick is to quit thinking of it as your property." --Anonymous G-goon
Please send out a notice when this case is being heard. I would like to attend, if possible. Let us know which courthouse and the case number or other details.
Obviously, the federal government has a bug up their ass about raisins, and it's a stupid law. But why not just grow something else?
How are those fetters you are wearing? Light enough for you?
I think that is going to work out jsut fine.
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