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Can the Democrats Really Win 2020 with a New Green Deal?

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks so.

OcasioCortezWikimediaWikimedia"This is going to be the New Deal, the Great Society, the moon shot, the civil rights movement of our generation," declaimed Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.) at a "Solving Our Climate Crisis" townhall this week. She was referring to the idea of a Green New Deal, which Mother Jones describes as "a complete realignment of the U.S. economy for a carbon-free future." Not wanting for ambition, Ocasio-Cortez added this goal: "We can use the transition to 100 percent renewable energy as the vehicle to establish economic, racial and social justice in America."

Ocasio-Cortez and her allies have yet to propose any Green New Deal bills. (The first step, she says, is to create a House Select Committee to devise the relevant legislation.) Until then, we'll have to rely on the leftist group Data for Progress' vision of what a Green New Deal would look like. By their lights, the feds should aim for 100 percent renewable electricity by 2035 by shuttering all natural gas and coal-fired generation plants. All fossil fuel emissions should be ended by 2050. All new passenger automobiles for sale in 2030 should be zero emissions vehicles; all rail, vehicles, and aviation should be totally fossil-fuel free by 2050. Other parts of the Green New Deal include reforesting 40 million acres of public and private land by 2035, greatly expanding mass transit systems, upgrading local water supply and management infrastructure, expanding federal regulation of the waters of the U.S., and requiring that all materials be recyclable by 2040.

The centerpiece of the New Green Deal would be the creation of 10 million new green jobs in its first ten years. "A Green New Deal requires a massive workforce for the construction, operations, and administration of projects, and a federal job guarantee program can ensure there are enough workers to meet that need," says the Data for Progress proposal. "A job guarantee is a legal right that obligates the federal government to provide a job for anyone who asks for one and to pay them a livable wage."

Pointing to problems that may need to be addressed is all well and good, but when it comes to how to pay for the proposed vast transformation of the U.S. economy, the Data for Progress folks basically punt. The most that the Data for Progress report does is hand-wave toward repealing the recent tax cuts and rolling back military spending. But guaranteeing 10 million green jobs alone would require roughly to $500 billion annually, assuming full-time employment at $15 per hour.

The Data for Progress proposal cites some polls that supposedly show that Americans back a Green New Deal, including 64 percent support for a renewable electricity mandate, 71 percent for EPA regulation of carbon dioxide emissions, 74 percent for vehicle fuel efficiency standards, and 55 percent for a green job guarantee. But would Americans really support higher fuel and electric bills along with higher taxes to support this ambitious program? An October 2017 poll from the University of Chicago strongly suggests not. While 61 percent of Americans in that survey think that climate change is a problem, the pollsters report, "questions on how much they would personally be willing to pay to confront climate change (in the form of a monthly fee on their electric bill) reveal great disparity. While half are unwilling to pay even one dollar (emphasis added), 18 percent are willing to pay at least $100 per month."

"The Green New Deal is one of the most interesting—and strategic—left-wing policy interventions from the Democratic Party in years," writes Robinson Meyer at The Atlantic. Meyer thinks that the green jobs guarantee will be so seductive a lure that voters will hardly notice that their taxes have increased along with the costs for heating and cooling their houses and fueling their cars. Perhaps, but given the French workers' fierce reaction to a relatively minor 12 cent per gallon increase in their gasoline taxes, this proposed "left-wing policy intervention" may be less "interesting" to U.S. voters than progressives like Ocasio-Cortez suppose.

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  • Leo Kovalensky II||

    Democrats for regressive carbon taxes!

    Yeah... that'll get you elected.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Occasional Cortex hasn't been watching French news, it seems.

  • Echo Chamber||

    Must prog harder!

  • NoVaNick||

    Don't you know? The yellow vest protestors are Russian trolls/The Atlantic/Slate/Salon/Vox

  • ||

    Those alt-right maniacs?

    Democrats are too smart to fall for that trap!

    DAMN THE TORPEDOES!

  • Mcgoo95||

    Even the French aren't stupid enough to believe carbon taxes will fix anything.

  • Fancylad||

    Our ruling class really don't think the Sans Culottes will ever come for them.
    Like Orwell said, "So much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot."

  • BambiB||

    One major difference is our sans culottes are heavily armed and massively outnumber all the forces the government might muster.

  • Tankboy||

    They'll only tax The Rich, so there's no way it'll make life for the proles more expensive, also, it's the promises of renewable energy, jobs for everyone and livable wages that gets them elected. Implementation of this dream will be sabotaged by those damned Republicans. Same platform every time Free Stuff if you Vote For Us!!!!

  • Penrose21||

    Exactly. I'm thinking about running for Congress with a platform promising a free house, free car (make that an electric car which, of course, uses electricity primarily produced from burning fossil fuels), free food, free drugs, free health care, and free monthly income for all. Just think of the millions of votes I'll get. Hell, I might even vote for me if I can get all that free stuff.

  • emmanuel||

    "Tax the rich to feed the poor, til there ain't no rich no more."

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    #OcasioSoPretty New favorite hashtag. You're welcome

  • BambiB||

    I think the DemonCraps should run on this issue!
    Republitards would only have to run videos of its wide acceptance in Paris.

  • Don't look at me!||

    Raise taxes and impose more regulations just about the time the economy enters a recession. Good plan.

  • DarwinP||

    And they are using optimized terminology to gain sympathy from voters.

  • albo||

    "How are we going to pay for this, freshman congresswoman?"

    *waves hands, smiles and points*
    "Look, a squirrel!"

  • Rich||

    "How are we going to pay for this, freshman congresswoman?"

    "What part of '100% renewable' don't you understand, DUH?"

  • Mickey Rat||

    Ocasio-Cortez knows considerably less about energy engineering than she knows about economics, which is hokum. She has no idea how to get from Point A to Point B or even if there is a realistic path to there.

    This is just an attempt at a power grab by intellectual ignoramuses...like the original New Deal.

  • ||

    Yeh well she's sitting in Congress thanks to the putzes in NY. So it matter little as she pushes FORWARD.

  • VOTE MILES||

    Unfortunately for the ideologues, we are all fully and completely invested in the carbon economy. We can evolve — perhaps one day to a methane economy en route to hydrogen — as the relevant technologies become attractive. But to think the nation will tolerate the sudden and irrevocable dislocation suggested by a "New Green Deal" is so utterly far fetched as to defy even prog credulity.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    I doubt anyone has told Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez that she has to be 35 to run for President.

  • Echo Chamber||

    That's ageist!

  • Social Justice is neither||

    Is that an IQ requirement she can't meet?

  • Dillinger||

    can't keep her down w/numbers and math

  • Bob Meyer||

    I doubt that she can count to 35.

  • I am the 0.000000013%||

    Does she have to use consecutive numbers?

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Is that in some dumb paper, written like 100 years ago, in prose nobody understands?

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Called it!


    Ocasio-Cortez then claimed that the Constitution only places a presidential age limit on men and threatened to run for president if Republicans don't pass the Equal Rights Amendment.
  • Ken Shultz||

    "She was referring to the idea of a Green New Deal, which Mother Jones describes as "a complete realignment of the U.S. economy for a carbon-free future."

    Has anybody clued this chick into what's going on in Paris right now and why?

  • Idle Hands||

    i'm loathe to describe people as dangerous idiots that I don't know personally, but I think it's safe to say she fits the bill. If she's a charlatan she's not exactly good at understanding what she is capable of or how the country's political system actually works. She'll fit in fine here in DC.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    "the hotel in Vegas?"

  • I am the 0.000000013%||

    Mother Jones is Alex Jones in drag

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    I am going to take a wild guess that #OcasioSoPretty thinks the events in Paris are the workers rising up against the bourgeoisie because internal combustion engines are killing the planet.

    Just a guess.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    In other words, destroy the current economy and promise that someday there will be a new one to take its place. I'm in love with this plan!

  • loveconstitution1789||

    The key point of their strategy is to wreck what Americans have.

  • Trainer||

    And then say, "See, capitalism doesn't work!"

  • Ryan (formally HFTO)||

    Keep being nice to democrats, as they elect socialists who seek to vote to tax you until you're also in their welfare scheme.

    Horray! We're all equally poor!

  • Rich||

    Ocasio-Cortez added this goal: "We can use the transition to 100 percent renewable energy as the vehicle to establish economic, racial and social justice in America."

    Ocasio-Cortez and her allies have yet to propose any Green New Deal bills.

    "Since we have yet to propose any bills, we can also use the transition to establish time travel and teleportation!"

  • Echo Chamber||

    "establish economic, racial and social justice in America"
    translation: gimme your stuff

  • NoVaNick||

    How many tabs of LSD did Ocasio-Cortez take before saying this?

  • Dillinger||

    AOC is not LSD's fault.

  • Inigo Montoya||

    "We can use the transition to 100 percent renewable energy as the vehicle to establish economic, racial and social justice in America."

    Why stop there? If you are going to link up totally non-related things for one-size-fits-all problem solving, how about:

    -- Using cancer research as a vehicle to reduce wait times at the DMV.

    -- Using the popularity of Netflix & chilling as a vehicle to mine for valuable metals on nearby asteroids

    -- Using legislation to combat child trafficking as a vehicle to keep adults from viewing porn...oh wait, never mind!

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    I like where you're going. But isn't trying to cure cancer in opposition to improving the DMV? I'm fairly certain that is like letting matter and antimatter come into contact.

  • soldiermedic76||

    Who Sid they would be trying to cure cancer? Considering how many of these idiots are Malthusians, it could be the other way around.

  • BYODB||

    Apparently, no one has mentioned entropy or thermodynamics to her yet since 100% renewable energy is basically wishing for a perpetual motion machine that never breaks down. I see that happening in the next few years, don't you?

  • Mithrandir||

    Not really. You could do 100% renewable energy (on human timescales, not into infinity) if we had a lot better tech. You could throw a bunch of solar collectors into space and send the energy to earth as micro or radio waves with the right tech.

    Yeah it doesn't exist yet, but 100% renewable doesn't equal perpetual motion machines (the sun is an outside energy source after all).

  • BYODB||

    Solar panels are not, last I checked, 100% renewable.

  • soldiermedic76||

    Shhhh. We don't want to talk about the environmental impact of mining for rare earths.

  • soldiermedic76||

    Or refining them, or disposing/recycling of them.

  • Mithrandir||

    On human timescales remember was a qualifier we used. If we had the tech to beam energy from space to earth, you bet your ass we could make cheap solar panels from asteroids.

  • I am the 0.000000013%||

    Rectenna farm aren't that hard.

  • swampwiz||

    Uh, no. Tell me what institution was stupid enough to give you a degree in physics or mechanical engineering. Oh, you didn't study that? Then STFU; you're spouting off like an idiot with something you don't understand.

  • John HP||

    What does renewable energy have to do with social justice? That plan is so ridiculous they might as well add unicorns that fart rainbows. Should be roughly the same probability of happening.

  • Rich||

    What does renewable energy have to do with social justice?

    So, you admit renewable energy can produce economic and racial justice? ;-)

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    "Green New Deal" is just another term for "Socialist Workers Utopia". Which will be, we are assured, chock-full of social justice.

  • Inigo Montoya||

    Oh course it will be! Just look at past examples of the imposition of "socialist workers utopias" by the likes of Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao, Idi Amin, etc. Fair treatment of all different social, religious, and ethnic groups were a cornerstone in all of those examples.

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    You keep looking at this all wrong. It isn't about the initial distinction of fair treatment. The outcome distribution is what is fair, with extremely little variation.

  • sarcasmic||

    Social justice means, among other things, income inequality. Non-renewable energy refers to fossil fuels. Big Oil and Big Coal are rich, and that's not fair. They need to be taken down to increase income inequality and bring about social justice.

    Equality is the lowest common denominator. When we're all dirt poor we will have achieved social justice utopia.

  • sarcasmic||

    increase income equality, pardon the typo

  • Inigo Montoya||

    Income equality is an idiotic concept, period.

    Even if we assume that everyone could actually be equally productive in their work output and equally talented (both ridiculous assumptions), unless we completely get rid of specialization of labor, there will always be some kind of market that decides that SOME labor is more valuable than other sorts of labor.

    Put it this way: even in the old Soviet Russia, which had nothing like a free market, do you suppose that the efforts of weapons scientists, party leaders, successful military officers, and star athletes or respected artists (the latter good for public relations efforts) received the same compensation as a guy that swept the streets, tilled a field, or turned a wrench on some factory line?

    Even in a non-free market, some kind of rules were in place that held that certain types of work had more value and would receive more compensation or other perks than other types of work. The day a street sweeper gets the same pay as a surgeon will be the day that there are no more surgeons.

  • Trainer||

    "The day a street sweeper gets the same pay as a surgeon will be the day that there are no more surgeons."

    Which explains waiting times for surgery in the Soviet Union. On a related note, my Soviet-era doctor that I last saw for strep throat told me to eat oatmeal and cooked apples and cut out dairy. Then she asked me if I thought antibiotics were a good idea.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Nope. Antibiotics are clearly a capitalist plot.

  • Trainer||

    Of course. Living and healthy citizens are much harder to control than weak, sick or dead ones.

  • Bob Meyer||

    Dirt poor won't mean social justice. True equality comes only in graveyards.

    Life is action. Some life will always be more active than other life. When all action ends we will have perfect equality.

  • RabbitHead||

    The social agenda is the real agenda. The renewable energy part is how they are trying to sell it.

    It's about the delusion that they can implement a perfect world. And the best-possible free world will have to be swept aside so they can try it.

  • Shadow_Rider||

    "You all got on this boat for different reasons, but you all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything I know this, they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten, they'll swing back to the belief that they can make people…better. And I do not hold to that. So no more running. I aim to misbehave." Malcolm Reynolds, circa 2517.

  • Inigo Montoya||

    A TV series that was gorram near to perfect, IMO.

  • soldiermedic76||

    Of course they had to cancel it after just one season, the ideas were just too dangerous to those in charge.

  • mpercy||

    Hell, we didn't even get a full season.

  • SIV||

    Beto can sell it. Just tell 'em the electricity will be free because BIG POWER and the winners of life's lottery %1 will pay for everything. Back in 2009 I was having to work with a bunch of over-educated leftists who were convinced Obamacare was going to provide free Cadillac healthcare for all.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    What they don't understand is that the living wage will be paying them to turn hand generators for 8 hours a day. 100% renewable energy.

  • soldiermedic76||

    We will all be human batteries kept passive by living in a virtual reality.

  • sarcasmic||

    Really? No pickled unicorn testicles?

    I DEMAND PICKLED UNICORN TESTICLES!

    Who's with me??

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    You had me except for the pickled part. I demand they be only soaked in olive oil. Extra virgin, consent affirmed, organic, and grown in economically challenged areas.

  • sarcasmic||

    Shouldn't they at least be cured first? Preferably sea salt harvested from desalinization plants in Africa?

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    I hadn't considered salted unicorn balls. Do they pair well with a nice deep red wine? Cabernet or merlot?

  • Lurker Jack||

    Good gawd man. Pinot Noir!

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    Yes! Perfect!

  • Widhalm19||

    #METOO

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    The proper way to read this is while listening to Red Barchetta by Rush.

    My uncle has a country place, that no one knows about
    He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law
    And on Sundays I elude the 'Eyes', and hop the Turbine freight
    To far outside the Wire, where my white-haired uncle waits

  • The Last American Hero||

    Joe Biden has a Ferrari? I thought he was a Trans-Am sort a guy.

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    Joe didn't have the GTB Ferrari. Guys with lunch boxes have simple Ferraris.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    Biden's actually a classic corvette guy.

  • Bob Meyer||

    "As the leader of all illegal activities in Casablanca, I am an influential and respected man."
    -- Senor Ferrari

  • RG||

    Its starting to look like a recession is on the horizon. This climate change idiocy will be forgotten once states start going belly up.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Probably some amount of recession is always on the horizon.

  • libertynugget||

    I'm sure close to 100% of Green New Deal supporter are will to make rich pay more.
    I don't have the any studies to prove it... just a feeling.

  • Lurker Jack||

    Truth. I've yet to meet the socialist that talks about spending their money.

  • bevis the lumberjack||

    "The Green New Deal is one of the most interesting—and strategic—left-wing policy interventions from the Democratic Party in years," writes Robinson Meyer at The Atlantic. Meyer thinks that the green jobs guarantee will be so seductive a lure that voters will hardly notice that their taxes have increased along with the costs for heating and cooling their houses and fueling their cars. "

    In an industry chock full of people that write about stuff they don't come close to understanding - journalism - Robinson Meyer manages to stand out as an extraordinary dumbass.

  • Echo Chamber||

    Too bad there are currently more job openings than people looking for work.
    I'm sure they'll fix that problem first

  • ||

    They noticed in France.

    And they're noticing in Manitoba and Saskatchewan who are fighting the ideologues running Ottawa at the moment.

  • bevis the lumberjack||

    And Alberta. They're certainly noticing in Alberta.

  • NoVaNick||

    Sure they can, if they make the coastal elites who want it so bad pay for it.

  • ||

    Is it me or I get the feeling they're over shooting? Sorta like if the New York Jets claim they're gonna win the Super bowl next year.

  • Dillinger||

    or any year.

  • No Longer Amused||

    It's scary because you realize people actually voted for this deluded nutjob.

  • ||

    Amazing and appalling.

  • Dillinger||

    15,814 people in her district is all it took to win the primary (57% of 27,744 total votes)

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    But guaranteeing 10 million green jobs alone would require roughly to $500 billion annually, assuming full-time employment at $15 per hour.

    They'll make the money back on the taxes.

  • Eric Bana||

    Just like companies that pay their workers more and more so the workers buy back from the company.

  • ||

    "0 renewable energy"

    Wonderful. I can't to push my car to the store where I can shop for groceries in the dark.

  • ||

    Also I can't "wait" for an edit function

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    Edit first, green energy second.

  • Social Justice is neither||

    If that's what it takes to stop the watermelon apocalypse then I'm for it despite the sarcrifice.

  • buybuydandavis||

    "shop for groceries"

    Good joke, comrade!

  • THCorCBDthatistheQuestion||

    Whenever I read these plans to transition to a carbon neutral future, there is always one plain thing they leave out, transitioning away from livestock.

    Raising livestock for food is bad in so many ways, yet these plans always focus on energy generation.

    It's almost like this isn't really about carbon, or greenhouse gasses, but is about signalling and special interests.

    Hmm...

  • NoVaNick||

    Its about how much prog think tanks and grant junkies can extract from taxpayers without actually solving any problems, real or imaginary

  • Social Justice is neither||

    Tell people their car won't need gas but will work the same on "something else" to save the planet is sellable. Telling people they need to give up their cheeseburgers and bacon and you've got an angry mob on your hands.

  • NoVaNick||

    I have no doubt they will go after meat eaters very soon-they already are starting to in the UK. It will happen here too-50 years ago, nobody could have imagined that you would not be allowed to smoke virtually anywhere, same thing will happen to meat. It will be taxed up the wazoo, and become morally wrong to eat it.

  • THCorCBDthatistheQuestion||

    Well it *is* morally wrong to eat it. That has nothing to do with whether it is legal or not.

    Reducing animal consumption would be as easy as allowing medical insurance to charge based upon risk. High cholesterol, diabetes, etc should all be things that increase the cost for medical insurance. Then people would actually be incentivized to improve their health, and the easiest way to sure most of the common "diseases" in society is to drastically reduce animal intake.

    It's such a win-win that it will never happen though. :sigh:

  • Greg F||

    Then people would actually be incentivized to improve their health, and the easiest way to sure most of the common "diseases" in society is to drastically reduce animal intake.


    [rolls eyes]

  • BYODB||


    Well it *is* morally wrong to eat it. That has nothing to do with whether it is legal or not.

    Uhh...so you would also say that animals are immoral as they eat meat? If not, explain how man is not an animal.

    I think you might want to consider that your own moral framework is significantly outside the norm, and perhaps you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking otherwise. Man is an omnivore, there is no doubt about that, and there is nothing inherently unethical about eating animals.

    Also, if you're trying to refer to methane as a greenhouse gas I would invite you to panic over the H2O content of our atmosphere or, say, a single volcano if you really want to stick yourself to methane in particular.

  • RabbitHead||

    Who do you propose to be in the "allowing" business as to how these private companies price and provide their services?

    And to think you are deluded enough imagine you can better assess risk than the armies of actuaries who have been amassing and analysing data all those years.

  • Nerþuz||

    You win the award for the most prominent idiot on Reason today.

  • soldiermedic76||

    What is morally wrong about being an omnivore? Name a single member of the ape family that does not consume animal flesh to some degree to obtain nutrients? We are heterotrophs, so we need to obtain our nutrients from outside sources, i.e. other living things. The vast majority of animals utilized for animal agriculture are raised on land that is unsuitable for, or only marginally suitable for, agronomy. If we switched to an all plant based diet we would have to put most of the planet under the plow. This would destroy most of the natural habitat, driving almost all wild animals and plants to extinction. How would that be any more moral?
    As for your mention of cholesterol, the latest research seems to demonstrate that dietary cholesterol has little to no impact on serum cholesterol. And the correlation between serum cholesterol levels and heart disease is tenious at best.
    Starch (and other sugars) are probably the leading cause of obesity in the developed world. And obesity is a far greater contributor to diabetes, heart disease etc then any animal related product. You are spouting pseuodscience to further your own goal.

  • Bob Meyer||

    You don't get diabetes by eating meat. You get it from grains and sugar. The government's low fat diets have killed more people than cigarettes.

  • jmlandry||

    "Charge more for higher risk for disease" Just like smokers who have lower lifetime medical costs? Should they pay more or less?

  • soldiermedic76||

    Only one study, which has been greatly repudiated in the scientific community, made the claim that animal agriculture is a significant contributor to AGW. However the latest research indicated at most all agriculture combined only contribute 17% of GHG emissions related to humans. How else is animal agriculture so bad? How is it so bad in so many ways?

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Well, meat tastes good and people enjoy it, so it must be immoral.

  • TuIpa||

    "Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks"

    {{Citation Needed}}

  • IamNotEvil||

    Did somebody invent a new kind of jet engine recently that I missed? All aviation to be fossil fuel free in 2050 seems like a real stretch if they haven't. Though it might be interesting to see if they'll let anybody build a nuclear powered steam rocket for passenger air travel. But it'll probably be something boring like battery powered prop planes. (New York to LA with only 25 layovers in less than a month, reserve you seat now)

  • The Last American Hero||

    Trains. It always goes back to trains with socialists. That is because they have the emotional development of young children, and young children love themselves some trains.

  • Trainer||

    It's the most horrible way to travel too. I don't mind a good non-socialist express train when in Europe but don't make me sleep on one for a day and half for what would be a 6 hour drive.

  • mpercy||

    So Ayn Rand was a bit prophetic in that whole trains thing?

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Something about big trains going in and out of tunnels.

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    They are playing with the idea of hybrid aircraft. You know exactly how far they've gotten just by your first impression.

  • Sebastian Cremmington||

    They would be regional aircraft and the way oil works is the less fuel middle class people use will get burned in the future supersonic jets of the elite. So all I care about is reducing costs of travel which is why I believe in electrifying as many transportation miles as we can. That said, I know the gallon of gasoline I don't use in my Tesla just means it will be cheaper for a truck driver in Texas to fill his F-150 and boat, carbon emissions will not be reduced and in fact they will increase.

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    Electrify to our maximum. Just do it without government money. Better yet! Let Germany waste all of their dollars of government inventing and then we use the technology.

  • BYODB||


    So all I care about is reducing costs of travel which is why I believe in electrifying as many transportation miles as we can.

    Which of course is more expensive than internal combustion engines, but hey keep being a true believer. Maybe you'll be last against the wall.

    That said, I know the gallon of gasoline I don't use in my Tesla just means it will be cheaper for a truck driver in Texas to fill his F-150 and boat, carbon emissions will not be reduced and in fact they will increase.

    Why do you brag about your coal fired car, and bitch about Texans driving gasoline engines? You're both burning fossil fuels genius.

  • Colossal Douchebag||

    So the plane's batteries recharge when you step on the brakes? Intriguing.

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    They are playing with the idea of hybrid aircraft. You know exactly how far they've gotten just by your first impression.

  • Still Curmudgeoned (Nunya)||

    And you don't understand. Those that just want something to be true insist it must then be. Ideas like this continue to prove that ignorance truly is bliss.

  • NoVaNick||

    I think Virgin flew a jumbo jet on biofuel a few years back as a test flight, but it was a 50/50 blend with jet fuel, so not completely fossil fuel free. There have been some other test flights too-but not with 100% biofuel yet.

  • Baron Von Weinermobile||

    Still don't get it? The crass, unwashed common folk shouldn't be traveling anyway. The answer is we reduce pleasure travel (it is an indulgent burgeoise habit anyway) through cost increases. It will have the added benefit of returning refinement to air travel like the days of yore, when suited bureaucrats and business leaders got to sip martinis amongst others of their own social standing. This is what social justice looks like.

  • Peter Schaeffer||

    INE, Aircraft could run on some type of vegetable oil. The energy density of vegetable oil is more than high enough. Producing enough vegetable oil is entirely a different matter... Batteries might be OK for certain short aircraft routes. Longer routes require some type of hydrocarbon fuel. Some proposals for LNG aircraft have been offered. These might be practical, but not acceptable to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

  • soldiermedic76||

    The XB-70 was supposed to be powered by a thorium reactor originally.

  • swampwiz||

    Well, your little RC aircraft is battery powered, so it is possible; that said, unless there is an astronomically huge breakthrough with battery storage (i.e., energy per mass), we won't be seeing any battery-powered aircraft at the airport. If all we had to burn carbon for was aircraft, we'd have the carbon problem easily licked.

  • NoVaNick||

    The Democraps sure love themselves some big plans for everyone. Making most everyone unemployed in this case.

  • RoyMo||

    As a truly great American once said "There's one born every minute."

  • Dillinger||

    caption: "yes, i am going to eat your child w/brunch."

  • Sebastian Cremmington||

    The two most important CO2 emissions reduction initiatives have been unmitigated disasters!! Biofuels were promoted in America and diesel passenger cars were promoted in Europe and the two initiatives have resulted in worse air quality and most likely higher CO2 emissions. If you care about the environment please don't vote for a liberal that is "concerned" about climate change!!

  • swampwiz||

    Diesel engines in Europe are only bad because of cheater companies like my still beloved VW.

  • Jerry B.||

    The quickest way to reduce worldwide carbon emissions by 25% (after the fires go out) would be to nuke China.

  • MJBinAL||

    Finally a CO2 reduction plan I can get behind.

    Of course, we have exported 100% (or damned close) of our electronic component mfg (and now engineering too), and many other items too, to China. Maybe we need to come up with a plan for some domestic production first. (or is that what the tariffs are about?)

  • BYODB||


    Maybe we need to come up with a plan for some domestic production first. (or is that what the tariffs are about?)


    Yes. I mean, it's not a good idea but it's Sanders Trump's idea.

  • marrlin||

    Are those who promise a utopian society remembered by history as the villains or the good guys? This ain't gonna be pretty if this wing of the democratic party continues its ascension.

  • buybuydandavis||

    The same people who cheered on Chavez.

    People love people who validate them and their wishes, no matter how obviously delusional.

  • John C. Randolph||

    The sad thing is that enough people are pig-ignorant about the damage that FDR did, that "new deal" isn't rejected with the same horror as "lebensraum" or "great leap forward".

    -jcr

  • soldiermedic76||

    The New Deal is one of the biggest myths in history. It probably made the depression worse and lengthened it, but the progressive sycophants have convinced Americans it was a whopping success.

  • Rossami||

    Good lord, there's not one part of that proposal that has even a hint of possibility of ever working. Absolutely nothing in the proposal is feasible either under current technology or under anything in the foreseeable future.

  • NoVaNick||

    Blowing everyone up with nukes would solve the climate problem and cool things down pretty quickly, and we already have the technology

  • MJBinAL||

    Alas, we have destroyed without replacing many of our nuclear weapons.

  • Uncle Jay||

    Ocasio-Cortez is a bright and shining beacon of hope, wisdom and truth.
    One only has to listen to her for a few minutes to realize that no one in the People's House of Representatives or the Supreme Soviet Senate can match her profound intelligence and foresight.
    One can only pray and beg God to have her as Supreme Leader of our beloved socialist slave state.

  • wareagle||

    imagine how relieved Sheila Jackson-Lee must be, knowing she's no longer the chamber's resident goof.

  • BarkingSpider||

    lol

  • L.G. Balzac||

    "Carbon free future"? They'll have to end all life on earth.

  • Colossal Douchebag||

  • wareagle||

    The woman makes Trump look like a policy savant, but the media can't seem to get enough of her. She's already surpassed Creepy Joe as the party's most able gaffe machine, spewing forth one nonsensical thought after another. That said, sure Dems can win by running on free ponies and perpetual sunshine. Because enough of the electorate is no sharper than AOC is.

  • LynchPin1477||

    She was referring to the idea of a Green New Deal, which Mother Jones describes as "a complete realignment of the U.S. economy for a carbon-free future."

    ...

    Ctrl+f
    nuclear
    0/0 matches

    ...

    GTFO

  • losmazeman||

    "...and aviation should be totally fossil-fuel free by 2050"

    I don't see an aircraft getting up without avgas or jp4/7

  • Earth Skeptic||

    Maybe that's the point.

  • Disenchanted libertarian||

    France's mistake was in making the tax increase obvious. All that is necessary to fool the vast majority of the people is to instead add a "Fee" upstream on the energy businesses. And, the Damnocrats, and our rulers in general, are good at that!
    BTW, Communism/Socialism or anarchy would work just fine if only people were all perfect.

  • Bob Meyer||

    If people were perfect they wouldn't be stupid enough to listen to Ocasio-Cortez.

  • Trainer||

    BTW, Communism/Socialism or anarchy would work just fine if only people were all perfect.

    Nope. It's a flawed concept that goes against many natural laws of economics, politics and human nature- even in "perfect" humans. There are absolutely no conditions under which communism/socialism can ever create a peaceful and prosperous society.

  • Rockabilly||

    Comrade!

    What I'd like for free would be a mid-century Ranch House.
    And a cool 1957 Corvette to go with it.

    That is all comrade.

    Surely, I have a right to home and a car. How else would I be able to live in comfort and drive around in a cool vintage car?

  • Rockabilly||

    Cut the goober mint by 90%.

    Eliminate the income tax.

    End the drug war.

    that is all comrades,

  • Spookk||

    It's always the same whining and crying from the same sectors whenever anything costly and/or new is proposed. There's plenty of capital out there, you just need to beat the crap out of the hoarders and take it from them.

  • CDRSchafer||

    Damned kulak wreckers!

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    "Can the Democrats Really Win 2020 with a New Green Deal?
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks so."

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez believes in the Virgin Birth of Che, and in the tooth fairy. She's a certifiable moron, and it does the Democrat Party no distinction that they allow her to run around loose, without a keeper.

  • BarkingSpider||

    This dumb bitch makes Maxine Waters look like a female Einstein. Another "make work" scenario for the Free Shit Army. Now instead of staying home they can travel to "make work"...do nothing productive all day for a larger "paycheck"! Just a different version of free shit for votes as the Dems as usual have nothing to run on.

  • swampwiz||

    Wouldn't it make sense to have that cash that will be confiscated to instead go into higher energy costs that would boost labor demand so that those folks on the dole could be put to productive work?

  • Tom||

    I don't know who are the most delusional: those that believe in god or those that believe in the state.

  • Wearenotperfect||

    This is off topic but funny you bring up "delusional". Hearing about what's going on in North Carolina, turns out Drumpf wasn't delusional regarding voter fraud.

  • CDRSchafer||

    There's a possibility God exists. There is no possibility the utopian state exists.

  • buybuydandavis||

    I know which ones are more dangerous.

  • Trainer||

    I ride a socialist designed mass transit system everyday. It's cheap and it will get you everywhere you want as long as you're willing to walk a mile or three to get to a bus stop. And, let me tell you, it's a great way to get to know your neighbors. At least physically since they're so crowded you can help but touch and be touched. Americans will love it once they get over the whole #MeToo thing.

  • Trainer||

    I ride a socialist designed mass transit system everyday. It's cheap and it will get you everywhere you want as long as you're willing to walk a mile or three to get to a bus stop. And, let me tell you, it's a great way to get to know your neighbors. At least physically since they're so crowded you can help but touch and be touched. Americans will love it once they get over the whole #MeToo thing.

  • CDRSchafer||

    I bet the socialist politicians who love it the most, never ride it.

  • Liberty Lover||

    The party in power finds disfavor eventually. No party will stay in power forever. The Democrats will win again, the question is not if, but when.

  • buybuydandavis||

    Disfavor only matters when there are free elections.

    If the ocean of Deep State criminals of the Obama Administration are not prosecuted, we never have another free election. Maybe the Deep State will swap parties for fun, but the winner will always be the Deep State Uniparty.

  • Presskh||

    Anyone who voted for this clueless idiot is an even bigger idiot. It's hard to listen to her drivel and fathom that a large number of voters believed it and actually pulled the lever for her. Just another sign that we are doomed.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    And there you have the fatal flaw of democracy.

  • ConstitutionFirst||

    "Watermelon"...Green on the outside, Red on the inside.

  • mpercy||

    Indeed. I'm not so stupid as to deny that humans have almost certainly had a negative impact on the environment leading to what is commonly called "climate change".

    But virtually none of the proposed "solutions" address actually remedying the issue and instead are focused on some sort of social justice meme instead.

    For every serious "let's put solar panels in space and beam energy down" sort of discussion, there's 100 more that say "rich countries have to pay for poor countries" and "climate change refugees"...

    (OTTMAR EDENHOFER, UN IPCC OFFICIAL): Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War... First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.

  • mpercy||

    Christiana Figueres, leader of the U.N.'s Framework Convention on Climate Change: "This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model, for the first time in human history."

    Former U.S. Senator Timothy Wirth (D-CO), then representing the Clinton-Gore administration as U.S undersecretary of state for global issues, addressing the same Rio Climate Summit audience, agreed: "We have got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."

    Christine Stewart, former Canadian Environment Minister: "No matter if the science is all phoney, there are collateral environmental benefits.... climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."

    Emma Brindal, a climate justice campaigner coordinator for Friends of the Earth: "A climate change response must have at its heart a redistribution of wealth and resources."

  • mpercy||

    At least this guy is more honest...

    Researcher Robert Phalen's 2010 testimony to the California Air Resources Board: "It benefits us personally to have the public be afraid, even if these risks are trivial."

  • mpercy||

    "The Data for Progress proposal cites some polls that supposedly show that Americans back a Green New Deal, including 64 percent support for a renewable electricity mandate, 71 percent for EPA regulation of carbon dioxide emissions, 74 percent for vehicle fuel efficiency standards, and 55 percent for a green job guarantee. But would Americans really support higher fuel and electric bills along with higher taxes to support this ambitious program? "

    Yeah, and people in France favored all those things too...

  • buybuydandavis||

    Socialism Starves

  • Trainer||

    Always. Intentionally (like in Ukraine) and unintentionally.

  • buybuydandavis||

    "There's no way to make the irrational work." There was no answer.
    "What can save you now?"
    "Oh, you'll do something!" cried James Taggart.

  • Earth Skeptic||

    So is it possible that the truly smart have set an invisible part of the world aside, live there in a rational paradise, and enjoy watching the rest of humanity fuck themselves over--and I did not get invited?

    Hello?

  • ||

    Can we just Golem her ring pop and we can move on to the adult conversation?

  • I am the 0.000000013%||

    I think it's fabulous that the federal government is taking the lead in turning the USA 100% carbon neutral.

    I propose that the entire DC area immediately shut down any activity that isn't carbon neutral.

    That not only shows leadership, but I have a sneaking suspicion it will also be the end of the crisis.

  • ||

    Apparently these progressives don't take any math classes in school, only political science and sociology.

  • swampwiz||

    Of course, the "racial and social justice" part is pure ethnocentric, hate-whitey pablum.

    While some of the ideas for the New Green Deal are a bit too strict - we can still continue to burn fossil fuel for some economic activity like untetherable vehicles (i.e., aerospacecraft & watercraft, and especially aerospacecraft because of the necessary high energy-to-weight ratio of fossil fuel) - there is no question that a lot of activity can be done in a low-carbon way. And as the robots continue to hack away at jobs - especially well-paying jobs - we will begin to phase into the guaranteed-work or even guaranteed-income era. It would be far better to stimulate labor demand by making the economy less efficient because of carbon-efficient mandates rather than let the economy be financially-efficient but then made to fix the "economic justice" problem by taxing folks to pay folks on the dole.

  • DjDiverDan||

    OXYMORON, noun: Using the verb "think" to describe anything done by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

  • emmanuel||

    Oh boy! When the coal powered power plants go offline, maybe the price of coal will go down, and then the cost of heating my home will plummet to less than the third of what it costs to heat my neighbor's homes.

  • skunkman||

    I don't consider myself being a conservative, but the more I hear from the left in the US today, the more they scare my pants off. These people are nuts.

  • CDRSchafer||

    They are complete lunatics and the dumber an idea is, the more they all stampede to it.

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