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‘Long Time, No See’ Is Considered Offensive, Non-Inclusive Language at Colorado State University

"Viewed as derogatory towards those of Asian descent."

WavingRoman Samborskyi / DreamstimeAt Colorado State University (CSU), administrators have designated the common greeting "long time, no see" as non-inclusive language.

That's according to a student, Katrina Leibee, who writes for the campus paper, The Rocky Mountain Collegian. Leibee met with Zahra Al-Saloom, director of diversity and inclusion at CSU, who showed her a list of terms and phrases considered contrary to the university's mission of fostering inclusion.

"One of these phrases was 'long time, no see,' which is viewed as derogatory towards those of Asian descent," wrote Leibee.

Leibee also noted that administrators discouraged use of "you guys" in favor of "y'all," which is gender neutral (and ungrammatical, but this is apparently less of a concern). Her column does not claim that administrators force students to use the gender neutral terminology, just that such terminology is preferred.

Al-Saloom did not respond to a request for a comment.

The College Fix's Jennifer Kabbany sees this as an example of campus political correctness run amok, and I'm having a hard time disagreeing. I can't imagine anyone reading racial subtext into "long time, no see" unless they have already been instructed to look for it. The greeting's Wikipedia page raises the possibility that it is of Chinese or Native American origin, but an NPR article from 2014 says the phrase is so widespread that it's impossible to tell for sure.

It's no wonder that policing microagressions might actually backfire. As some research has shown, many people who are supposedly impugned by a given slight fail to register it as offensive. What is to be gained by insisting that they should find it offensive, and that people who persist in using the term are aggressing against them in some small way?

Photo Credit: Roman Samborskyi / Dreamstime

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  • loveconstitution1789||

    "long time, no fuckie"

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    Well that sure made me laugh.

  • Quixote||

    Laughter is certainly not an excuse. All forms of offensive expression should be systematically banned from our college campuses, although the offense is clearly less damaging when students rather than professors and administrators are targeted, and when the words used are not intended as reputation-diminishing "satire." See the documentation of our nation's leading criminal "parody" case at:

    https://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

  • ||

    Saying something made you laugh is a micro-aggression against hupeople with no sense of humor. Way to oppress me, bro.

  • ||

    Offensive and non-inclusive to incels but who gives a shit?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    +10

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Does this shit really bother orientals?

  • Gibbs78||

    Nope, just elitist white liberals who need to control what offends others

  • Fats of Fury||

    Obviously derived from "No tickee no washee."

  • Fats of Fury||

    No Tickee No Washee

  • No Time for Fishing||

    Fats of Fury Hao jiu mei jian

  • rocks||

    Keep voting against MAGA you Reason cucks, and these rules will become mandatory speech for you. Most of you will happily comply because you have no spine and think trump is a bad orange man.

  • No Yards Penalty||

    Lighten up, Francis.

  • Teddy Pump||

    "No ticky, no laundry"

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    What about the differently-sighted? Or the clock-challenged?

  • Anomalous||

    Sure. Offense is in infinite supply.

  • Vernon Depner||

    A future time orientation is racist.

    Ooops, I said "orientation". I guess it should be "Asianation".

  • Rock Lobster||

    Infinite supply, huh. Well that certainly informs the leftist concept of economics and political power. Too bad the principle of scarcity doesn't apply to offense.

  • MarkLastname||

    Not for that sports team that's currently doing poorly, am I right? Right sports fans?

  • ||

    If only someone could harness outrage to power a Prius. We would have solved the energy crisis.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    It's rather odd that they would approve of "y'all", given that it's generally associated with those evil white southern redneck deplorable types who didn't vote for Hillary and therefore MUST be Nazis.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    They wouldn't let their wives vote for Hillary either.

  • NoVaNick||

    And its appropriating Southern culture!

  • Eddy||

  • Rock Lobster||

    Well, in all fairness, it's hard to find the time to vote when you're kept busy making sammiches for the menfolk.

    On the other hand, when I intimated as much to my wife, she said, "Fuck you!" and demanded to ride with me to the polling place... in the front seat, no less.

    How embarrassing... but at least she didn't vote for Hillary.

  • Johnimo||

    How'd you know she didn't vote for Hillary? You in the voting booth with her?

  • Rock Lobster||

    Because she told me so. And her name isn't Christine Blasey Ford.

  • MarkLastname||

    How do you know that's not her name? If it were it's like she'd tell you the truth, right?

  • Rock Lobster||

    We only have one front door?

  • CE||

    "ya'll" is more inclusive than "you guys" though.

  • BYODB||

    Which is...just a contraction of 'you all' and I can't fathom why they would suggest the informal contraction instead of just saying 'you all'.

    I feel like they're trolling someone with that list, I just can't be sure who.

  • gaoxiaen||

    Just use the Pittsburgh "yinz". problem solved.

  • Enemy of the State||

    East central OH younz...

  • ||

    That's offensive to me, as I'm from Northeast PA. The correct 2nd person plural in English is "yous", or "you'se" if you went to college.

  • DarrenM||

    I remember in the '92 Presidential race the usual idiots suspects claiming Ross Perot's use of "you all" was racist.

  • TxJack 112||

    Exactly what I was thinking. Y'all is definitely most associated with Texas which is filled with nothing but racists which is why Ted Cruz was re-elected. This story only further demonstrates we have truly lost our grip on reality?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    "One of these phrases was 'long time, no see,' which is viewed as derogatory towards those of Asian descent," wrote Leibee.

    And let me say as someone who has on several occasions been accused of being Asian, just because Caucasian eyes might open wider, doesn't mean Asians can't see very well.

  • Johnimo||

    I think y'all see really well.

  • MarkLastname||

    That's 'real good' if you're speaking southern.

  • Crafty Boomer||

    how about "me so horny...me love you long time"?

  • Cy||

    "Any ting you want!"

  • Anomalous||

    "Fifteen dollar too beacoup!"

  • Overt||

    Oh man. CSU used to be the sane one- full of the people who declined to live in Boulder. What has happened? I can only assume that all of Ft Collins has gone this way?

  • Freddy the Jerk||

    CSU's been a bit of a leftist enclave within Ft.C. since the 80's but Ft.C.'s now gone full SJW retard.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Same thing happened as most of the rest of the Front Range--shitlib migration, in Ft Collins' case it's mostly retirees and people associated with the pot business, but also tech heads and the massive growth of CSU. Most of them are from California and New York.

  • ||

    Most of them are from California and New York.

    And I'll bet that a significant number that are "from California" are really from New York, but lived most recently in California.

  • handsoffmypineapples||

    I love the "Don't Boulder my Golden" bumper stickers, but that seems like it might be a lost cause. Although in general Mines students are still a bit more tolerable than your average CU or CSU kids.

  • Rock Lobster||

    They tend to dig a little deeper.

  • BYODB||

    I know someone that works at Mines, and he swears that they're pretty far leftist there as well. That said, he's a pretty far right Republican so his opinion is probably different from the average.

  • UnrepentantCurmudgeon||

    I used to give CSU a pass because Temple Grandin is a professor there. I think that has outlived its time

  • Crafty Boomer||

    how about 'me so horny....me love you long time'?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    That is the proper way for hot oriental chicks to greet me.

  • Crafty Boomer||

    how about 'me so hor-knee...me love you long time'?

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    and ungrammatical, but this is apparently less of a concern

    No, y'all is not ungrammatical. It's informal, but so is "you guys" in place of the plural "you."

  • ||

    I think we can all agree that "Yous guys" is right out.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Fuck yinz.

  • BYODB||

    "HEY YOUSEEEE GUUYYYSSSS!"

    ~Sloth

  • Jimothy||

    Incidentally, the plural of "y'all" is "all y'all".

  • cc2||

    I lived in the south and "all y'all" means no exceptions. "All y'all come to dinner" means everyone must come, and right now. It is not the plural. It is a tense for which there is no name I can think of.

  • TxJack 112||

    Having been born and raised in Texas, I can confirm you are correct. Y'all is used for 1-3 people and all y'all for a group of people. It is called predictive future tense

  • General_Tso||

    So...No tickie, no shirtie is out?

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    Unfortunately there are some Asian Americans who think the main thing they should be concerned about in higher education is affirmative action. They have bought into the right-wing lie that racial preferences harm their community more than they harm privileged white students. Well, I'm glad CSU has its priorities straight. Offensive, non-inclusive language like "long time no see" is the real threat to the college dreams of Asian American youth. As a white person who's woke to the reality of racial oppression, I wish more of them would realize this.

  • Rebel Scum||

    "long time no see"

    wong time, no see?

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    Either that was sarcasm or you are a moron.

  • Eddy||

    The former.

  • Roger the Shrubber||

    False dichotomy. Why not both?

  • KevinP||

    New York Times: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits, Lawsuit Says


    Quote:
    Harvard consistently rated Asian-American applicants lower than any other race on personal traits like "positive personality," likability, courage, kindness and being "widely respected," according to an analysis of more than 160,000 student records filed Friday in federal court in Boston by a group representing Asian-American students in a lawsuit against the university.

    Asian-Americans scored higher than applicants of any other racial or ethnic group on admissions measures like test scores, grades and extracurricular activities, according to the analysis commissioned by a group that opposes all race-based admissions criteria. But the students' personal ratings significantly dragged down their chances of being admitted, the analysis found.

    "It turns out that the suspicions of Asian-American alumni, students and applicants were right all along," the group, Students for Fair Admissions, said in a court document laying out the analysis. "Harvard today engages in the same kind of discrimination and stereotyping that it used to justify quotas on Jewish applicants in the 1920s and 1930s."
  • KevinP||

    New York Times: Harvard Rated Asian-American Applicants Lower on Personality Traits, Lawsuit Says


    Quote:
    Harvard consistently rated Asian-American applicants lower than any other race on personal traits like "positive personality," likability, courage, kindness and being "widely respected," according to an analysis of more than 160,000 student records filed Friday in federal court in Boston by a group representing Asian-American students in a lawsuit against the university.

    Asian-Americans scored higher than applicants of any other racial or ethnic group on admissions measures like test scores, grades and extracurricular activities, according to the analysis commissioned by a group that opposes all race-based admissions criteria. But the students' personal ratings significantly dragged down their chances of being admitted, the analysis found.

    "It turns out that the suspicions of Asian-American alumni, students and applicants were right all along," the group, Students for Fair Admissions, said in a court document laying out the analysis. "Harvard today engages in the same kind of discrimination and stereotyping that it used to justify quotas on Jewish applicants in the 1920s and 1930s."
  • D-Pizzle||

    No #hashtags?

  • General_Tso||

    So...'No tickie, no shirtie' is out?

  • Conchfritters||

    "As a woman, I feel excluded when the term 'you guys' is used," said Lauren Rodgers, the Director of Residential Development for Residence Hall Association, an organization on campus that strongly emphasizes inclusive language.

    What a joyless bunch she is. Please wear something to identify you with so I never talk or interact with your kind.

  • Seamus||

    Well, in fairness, I'd certainly want to exclude her from any group I wanted to talk with.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Hang on.........,how are her tits?

  • NicholasStix||

    Ah, the Tits Rider.

  • MJBinAL||

    She SHOULD be excluded .... from any conversation where at least minimum intelligence is expected.

  • Trollificus||

    As a rule, people who begin any sentence with "As a {x}..." will NEVER follow it with anything worthwhile.

  • Trollificus||

    As a rule, people who begin any sentence with "As a {x}..." will NEVER follow it with anything worthwhile.

  • ||

    That's because that particular formula is part-and-parcel of the method of analysis that sees the social position of the speaker as the most important factor in determining the truth-value of the statement that follows.

  • Eris62||

    As a Southern woman I consider "you guys" and "y'all" interchangeable. Some people just look for reasons to be offended, I might as well give them one.

  • Mr. Dyslexic||

    I saw what you did there. +1

  • MarkLastname||

    So does that mean i should disregard your statement, since you derive its meaning from your identifying yourself as a rule?

  • soldiermedic76||

    She should probably never visit the inland Northwest. You guys is endemic in speech. Even most progressives I knew growing up used it. I actually got some strange looks after I returned to Idaho after being stationed in Texas and said y'all (or when I asked for a soda rather than a pop).

  • CE||

    Pop is what you keep in your fridge, to drink when you're hot.
    Soda is what you keep in your fridge, to keep your vegetables from stinking up the place.

  • Rock Lobster||

    For old school native Texans, the proper generic term for any effervescent soft drink is "a coke."

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    A friend of mine who lived part of his youth in Rockwall told me that.

  • Rock Lobster||

    Rockwall huh? I'm right across the lake.

  • DarrenM||

    I've almost never heard "you gals". "You guys" had always been pretty much interchangeable with "you people".

  • Rock Lobster||

    Did you just say, "you people?"

    People, this guy just said, "you people!"

    Assemble the flying monkeys of the Twitterverse!

  • Johnimo||

    Are you now or have you EVER been a member of the "you people" ....

  • Johnimo||

    He meant to say, "you folks." Sure that's what he meant ... Oh! The humanity!

  • kevrob||

    Having grown up 60 miles from Times Square, with one parent from Brooklyn and the other from Queens, "you guys" was endemic where I grew up, along with "youse guys." Frex, "C'mon, you guys!" was the way to get your friends off their butts and doing something, or "Quit it, you guys!" if you wanted them to stop. When I once suggested to my numerous sisters that they should be using "you gals" when talking among themselves, they gave me the horselaugh. They did NOT see "you guys" as being "male-specific." "Gals" is what one's Aunt Didi said, and she was a kid during WWII. The Andrews Sisters used it on Channel 7's 4:30 movie.

  • rsteinmetz||

    "guys" has evolved into a non gendered plural pronoun.

  • ||

    I'm having a hard time disagreeing

    But yet...

  • Rock Lobster||

    To be sure, equivocal language comes across as cowardly and unprincipled, but it is regrettably necessary to convey Rico's superior grasp of nuance. Not to mention his occasional publication in more "enlightened" media.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    It has been reported that the most significant growth [and cost] in university settings has occurred in administration, such as the Dean of Diversity and Inclusion and Title IX enforcement. This is all the fuckers have to do, is come up with invented slights and offenses they can impose and everyone in the school.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    On the one hand, it keeps gender studies majors out of the job pool at productive jobs... On the other hand, those fuckers weren't going to be able to hold a job which required a valuable skill anyway

  • Anomalous||

    The only use for victim studies majors that I can think of is subjects in clinical trials.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    Shark bait?

  • Longtobefree||

    Chipper testers?

  • Rock Lobster||

    But clinical trials involve data and evidence.

    It'll never work.

  • Vaelyn||

    Oh, don't worry...I'm sure they'll begin lobbying state and federal governments to mandate that private businesses hire "inclusion officers" any day now...and the Harris administration will be only too happy to comply aroun 2021 or so.

  • Eris62||

    Bite your tongue! I hope I die before that witch becomes president.

  • Rock Lobster||

    Especially in public universities. That these fifth columnists are funded with tax dollars to propagate and enforce the left's agenda of identity politics, redistributive economics, and historical revisionism is intolerable. It's enough to make one reconsider the revival of tarring, feathering, and being run out of town on a rail. I suppose wood chippering is more modern, though.

    Public funding for any positions with the "diversity," "inclusion," or "equity" in the title or job description is the moral equivalent of funding a state sponsored religion.

  • Trollificus||

    Sadly, the positions they occupy allow them to create increased demand for their services. By defining what's not inclusive or what is offensive as in this example. They can train the kids how to be offended and dictate how often and how severely they should take offense.

    And that's CRAZY! I mean, you wouldn't, like, let lawyers make the laws that their paid expertise would...oh shit!

  • kevrob||

    I used to be buddies with a "gal" who graduated from a Midwestern University of State at City. She allowed that her "women's studies" degree was actually a certification for beoing "white and liberal." She was originally from Texas, though, so wasn't as intolerable to be around as some of "those types." [And, no, I wasn't a "buddy with benefits." Wouldn't have minded that...]

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Leibee also noted that administrators discouraged use of "you guys" in favor of "y'all," which is gender neutral (and ungrammatical, but this is apparently less of a concern)."

    I had an argument with my Latin professor about "y'all". She did some research, asked me to use it in a sentence, and then conceded the point.

    Not only is the second person plural grammatically correct, but it's also hard to understand why anyone would think it isn't--apart from their stupid prejudices. Why would it be grammatically incorrect to use the second person plural?

    Incidentally, contractions aren't grammatically incorrect either.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I suspect the overwhelming majority of people who imagine that "y'all" is grammatically incorrect don't even know the difference between the second person singular and the second person plural.

    It's often an excellent example of phony elitists imagining themselves superior when they're really just exposing their ignorance along with their prejudice.

    Some of the people in my Latin class were incensed. Back then, "y'all" was grammatically incorrect to them for the same reason that the First Amendment doesn't protect hate speech today.

    It's all just fashionable horseshit.

  • DiegoF||

    People get weird. If you use, "Ain't I?" as in "Pretty handsome, ain't I?" you will raise all sorts of polite eyebrows. But "Ain't I" while rather colloquial, is far, far better than "Aren't I?" And I guarantee you will not raise many eyebrows with that. But who says, "I are..." or "I aren't..."?

    Standard English should be "Am I not?" There is no contraction available. "Ain't I?" fits impeccably within the grammar of its less formal register. "Aren't I," while in widespread use in more socially prestigious registers, is far more easily characterized as wrong, as simply a mistake.

  • Juice||

    Ain't is the (once upon a time) "grammatically correct" (before there was standardized grammar) contraction for "am not." So it would have been grammatically incorrect to say "you ain't" but correct to say "I ain't."

    So, in a way, "ain't I?" is more correct than "aren't I?"

  • ||

    ^ This.

    When my daughter was about five she would habitually start questions with "am'n't I . . . " and we had to explain that, yes, "aren't I" makes no sense and "am'n't I" does, but that's just not what people say.

  • RabbitHead||

    My oldest daughter used amn't at that age too.

  • UnrepentantCurmudgeon||

    Like my grandson used to say "Papa, I'm being hayve" (misspelling intentional)

  • Ken Shultz||

    When I was in third grade, I had a teacher who was my mother's tutor when she was a little girl. She was old. She was an old maid when she was living in my grandparents' home and teaching my mother.

    Anyway, she told us that there was another contraction, "mayn't", and wanted us to use it when appropriate instead of "can't". I've never heard anyone but her use the word "mayn't" in conversation.

  • ||

    I've never heard that one before, either. Do you know where she grew up?

  • Trollificus||

    Yeah, in that example it's "y'ain't". Used it many times. "Y'ain't shit, boy." mostly, now I think on't.

  • ||

    As long as t'aint doesn't gain popular usage we should be OK.

  • Vernon Depner||

    How 'bout "isn't me"?

  • Dan S.||

    The absence of that contraction IS annoying. When i was 5 or 6, i used the word "amn't" (in the phrase "amn't I?", and was told by my mother that there was no such word. It seemed like there should be, but she said to use "aren't" instead. It seemed wrong then, it seems wrong now, but I've probably said it once or twice. Not more than that, I don't think, because it still just sounds wrong. And "Am I not?" sounds absurdly formal. But "ain't" really isn't a word i normally use either.

  • DarrenM||

    Wikipedia has a decent article on this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain't

  • DarrenM||

    That apostrophe should be "% 2 7" (without the spaces).

  • Roger the Shrubber||

    I was told by one fluent in southern vernacular that 'y'all' is second person singular and 'all y'all' second person plural.

  • Ken Shultz||

    They were either kidding or didn't know what they were talking about.

    Incidentally, "y'all" isn't even the word most southerners picture in their minds when they use the word in speech. They don't tend to write "y'all" either. It's just that when they say, "you all", the southern accent makes it sound like one two-syllable word. The end of "ou" in "you" and the beginning of "a" in "all" dovetail into each other with a southern accent.

    If I'm not mistaken, this popular conception of "y'all" derived from Mark Twain's remarkable success in rendering the southern accent for northern audiences. You could read his text as written aloud and sound like a southerner. My understanding is that this led to all sorts of innovations, stream of consciousness being one innovation. If you can force yourself to read Finnigan's Wake as written aloud, you'll find yourself speaking with an Irish accent.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Anyway, "y'all" is meant to convey accent as written. Still, it's two words, two syllables, and it always was and is the second person plural. If I ordered enough pizza for you, there isn't enough to share with the rest of the class. I ordered enough pizza for you all, everybody is getting a slice. In English, where we dropped most of the endings on words, which in other languages show which words are grouped together, we heavily use adverbs, prepositions, etc. to make up for not using endings on our words.

    You're using similar ways of differentiating between you and you all--especially when it matters that people understand that you're not talking about everyone in the group, only one person in it.

  • Rock Lobster||

    As a native Texan, I can confirm that Ken is correct, but there is more to it. "All y'all" is a special case with one specific use, to wit:

    "Fuck all y'all."

    However, for white folks to use it borders on cultural appropriation, as the insult has its roots in the vernacular of African-american-East-Texans. An appropriate woke analog for white Texans would be something like:

    "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on."

    Of course, there is no clear plural for this phrase that doesn't completely destroy its poetic effect. But such is the price we white folks must pay in doing our bit to overcome historical racial inequity.

  • CE||

    like when they say "process-eze" when they mean "processes".

  • Rock Lobster||

    I think "process-eze" refers to the things that progressives target within a business to either destroy it or shake it down. "Processes" refers to the same thing when a business is small enough or young enough to have temporarily escaped the notice of their progressive betters.

  • mtrueman||

    "Incidentally, contractions aren't grammatically incorrect either."

    Grammatically correct is just another way of saying 'in accordance to the rules of grammar.' Sometimes contractions are grammatically correct, sometimes not, depending on the rules. Take 'gonna,' for example. 'I am going to go' can be contacted to 'I am gonna go,' but 'I am going to the store' can't be contracted to 'I am gonna the store.' In the latter case, contracting is grammatically incorrect.

    About y'all, yous guys, etc, simply 'you' is fine.

  • Juice||

    "You" is not fine, because it's easily confused with the identical second person singular. English needs a separate word for second person plural and "y'all" is the best choice.

  • Vernon Depner||

    We could always bring back "thee".

  • CLM1227||

    I second this... lol

  • Longtobefree||

    Forsooth, methinks thou art in jest.

  • ||

    This comment likes me.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    This comment intentionally left blank.

  • Finbar Sheehy||

    In parts of Ireland and England, and I understand in Newfoundland and Labrador, "ye" (pronounced 'yee') is used as the second person plural. It even has possessive forms, pronounced 'yeer' and 'yeers' (as in, "don't forget to take yeer belongings - hey, are those phones yeers?"). It apparently dates from "early modern English", i.e., from roughly the 17th Century.

    Not to be confused with "Ye Shoppe", which is something else altogether.

  • ||

    Not to be confused with "Ye Shoppe", which is something else altogether.

    Indeed - what we now see as "Ye" in "Ye Olde Shoppe" is actually a "The" spelled with the now-archaic letter 'thorn,' which in fancy Gothic script looks like a 'Y.'

  • Johnimo||

    Nice try, but "ye" is the singular also. D'ye see my point?

  • Johnimo||

    Nice try, but "ye" is the singular also. D'ye see my point?

  • VinniUSMC||

    The problem with "I am going to the store" is that it is already sort of informal. "I am going to ____ the store" is more appropriate, making "I am going to go to the store" the most correct. Then "I am gonna go to the store" is a correct sentence.

  • mtrueman||

    My point is the contraction 'gonna' from 'going to' is sometime acceptable and sometimes not, according to what follows. If it's a verb, as in 'I'm gonna eat,' *where gonna means will, then it's OK, in the case where a noun follows, as in 'I'm gonna the library,' then it's not OK.

  • Finbar Sheehy||

    No - those are different statements. "I am going to the store" is present continuous, and would be used by someone who was actually in the process of going to the store. "I am going to go to the store" is future tense, and would be used by someone who has not yet begun to go.

  • ||

    it's also hard to understand why anyone would think it isn't

    It's historical. "You" is actually already the second-person plural, which was historically also used as a "polite" form of second-person address. The actual, historical second-person singular is "thou," cognate with German du and Latinate tu.

    Ironically, this shifted when English translations of the Bible favored the intimate "thou" over the more formal "you," which then cause "thou," as a common element of a sacred text, to become the more formal means of address and it passed out of common usage. The subsequent occasional need for a distinct second-person plural pronoun led to the emergence of "y'all" and "you guys."

    My approach to grammar has always been descriptive rather than prescriptive, so it's all good, but this is why traditionalists will argue that "y'all" is ungrammatical. If they know what they're talking about rather than just repeating memorized rules, that is.

  • Ken Shultz||

    There needs to be a way to distinguish between second person plural and second person singular, and that's what I was trying to communicate. If differentiating between the two were grammatically incorrect, there would be something wrong with the grammar.

    Is there a language anywhere that doesn't differentiate between them? Doesn't the nature of reality require us to differentiate between them in order to communicate effectively?

    How can adding the word "all" someone make that differentiation unacceptable?

    That was the argument I was making.

    I've seen people go to the wall against "you all", and it just always seems to underscore their prejudice. Seems to me that they needed to go way out on a limb to get there.

  • ||

    Is there a language anywhere that doesn't differentiate between them?

    I don't believe the Chinese languages do, but they don't inflect or use case generally speaking, relying much more absolutely on word order than even English. I used to teach English at a college with a large Chinese ESL population, and they really struggled with inflections. It's just a foreign concept to them that makes no sense.

    Technically speaking, for the prescriptive traditionalist, modern standard English always uses the polite form of second-person address and never uses the intimate form. This is because "thou" now sounds stupidly formal and not intimate at all.

    I wholeheartedly agree that the language needs the distinction, and that "y'all" and "you guys" have emerged to fill that need, with "you" now having become the intimate second-person singular that is used in all contexts, our democratic-individualist society balking at using different forms of honorific address based on social status (like Japanese and Korean do somewhat obsessively, for example).

  • ||

    I've seen people go to the wall against "you all", and it just always seems to underscore their prejudice.

    I do think that's the root of it - an attachment to grammar standardization based in privileging certain people's ways of speaking (i.e. NorthEasterners) over others (i.e. the rest of us). It's a real dilemma, as we do need standardized language, but we would rather not fight a war over it like they have in India.

  • mtrueman||

    " don't believe the Chinese languages do"

    In Mandarin, 'ta' spoken with a high (no. 1) tone means he, she or it. Plenty of languages get by with only one word meaning both 'lock' and 'key.' Plenty of people have been making themselves understood without saying y'all.

  • Rock Lobster||

    It's not about whether the term or its uncontracted root is grammatically incorrect. It's about the deplorable people who use it. It is therefore politically incorrect. Frankly, I'm surprised that the director of diversity and inclusion and her enlightened administrative peers let such an obvious dog whistle of the white cis-male patriarchy slip by.

    Perhaps CSU administration should invite the good Rev. to give them a seminar on the vernacular of the rubes. I'm sure he could use the money, and they are obviously in need of some good old Marxist re-education.

    Don't y'all agree?

  • perlchpr||

    "Y'all" is a perfectly cromulent replacement for the German "ihr".

  • MarkLastname||

    It is indeed a eubillicant word.

  • mtrueman||

    "Al-Saloom did not respond to a request for a comment."

    Very good work Bobby, attempting to contact someone you are writing about for a comment. This is a fundamental of good journalism as I've pointed out before, and it seems like you are catching on. Persistence is another fundamental.

  • Pro Libertate||

    What's wrong with y'all in colloquial speech?

  • mtrueman||

    It's a 'regionalism' that marks one as coming from a particular place. People who use their voice professionally, news readers, actors etc. try to cultivate a neutral accent.

  • ||

    ^ This.

    I have grandparents from the Midwest on one side and the Far West on the other and in our family "ain't" and "y'all" were forbidden on account of they make you sound like a hillbilly. My wife's family, OTOH, are largely Southerners, so both are now firmly part of my vocabulary.

  • Rock Lobster||

    Yes. That way it's easier for them to feign a neutral viewpoint.

  • mtrueman||

    "That way it's easier for them to feign a neutral viewpoint."

    It's more a way to avoid offending people who are turned off by certain accents. It's the same reason Donald Trump tones down his New Yorker accent. People would get turned off by a president who spoke like Bugs Bunny. The Southern accent has long been stigmatized because it makes white people sound like black people. Effete Europeans were aghast that such an august personage as George Washington should speak in the same accent of his slaves.

  • Rock Lobster||

    The purpose has, shall we say say, progressed?

  • DarrenM||

    The Southern accent has long been stigmatized because it makes white people sound like black people.

    So, you're saying that when progressives make fun of a southern accent, they are really making fun of blacks.

  • mtrueman||

    "So, you're saying that when progressives make fun of a southern accent, they are really making fun of blacks."

    No, they are making fun of slave owners, who really should have known better than aping their slaves.

  • MarkLastname||

    I assume you're joking: for one, slave owners didn't have a special dialect distinct from other white southerners; secondly, slaves originally learned their English dialect from English speaking whites, not the other way around.

  • ||

    Anymore it's a sign of politeness or conformance to politically correctness.

  • Juice||

    In my opinion, it should be standard English.

  • mtrueman||

    There's no such thing as 'standard English.' Standard French,yes. They have their institute in Paris arbitrating on matters French. If you look at dictionaries and language textbooks, they don't come in standard English. They are either British or American.

  • Rebel Scum||

    "One of these phrases was 'long time, no see,' which is viewed as derogatory towards those of Asian descent," wrote Leibee.

    I don't get it.

  • Rebel Scum||

    How about "me love see you long time."?

  • Johnimo||

    How about "me NO see you long time."?

  • jmg09||

    Leibee also noted that administrators discouraged use of "you guys" in favor of "y'all," which is gender neutral (and ungrammatical,

    Y'all is ungrammatical? OK, Robby, now I'm offended.

  • Rebel Scum||

    How about "me love see you long time."?

  • Rebel Scum||

    Reason really needs to fix its comment system.

  • Eddy||

    Yeah, too many bad jokes are still getting through.

  • ||

    Rong time, no see.

    CB

  • IceTrey||

    Is this offensive to Asians?

    Confucius says woman who flies upside down has crack up.

  • Vernon Depner||

    Confucianism is pretty much the polar opposite of Libertarianism, so I'd say making fun of him should be OK here.

  • Trollificus||

    Less so than this version, I would think:

    Confucius say woman who fry upside down has clack up.

  • Rock Lobster||

    How about:

    Confucius say woman who ride bicycle peddle ass all over town?

    To be sure, this is insensitive to the issue of human trafficking, which is almost as big a threat to National Security™ as Climate Change™.

    Funny, though.

  • Number 2||

    I hereby declare that the term, "Machiavellian," is similarly offensive to Italian Americans and therefore problematically non-inclusive. Further, since Machiavelli was himself one of the indigenous peoples of the mid-Mediterranean peninsula known today as Italy, any person not a descendant of said indigenous peoples who behaves in a Machiavellian fashion is guilty of cultural misappropriation! Take that!

  • Juice||

    One time I said, "Me likee," about something and the other person got big-eyed like "I can't believe you just said that! How racist!"

  • Longtobefree||

    And you immediately knew that there would never be a scenario where you needed to interact with the other person again. See how helpful PC can be?

  • NoVaNick||

    When I first saw this headline, I thought the problem they would have with "Long time, no see" is that it is able-ist, since the blind cannot see. That would at least make some sense. In all the years I have heard or used this, I never thought there was an Asian connection.

  • Juice||

    And you must say Asian. You must never say Eastern, especially not the Latin form of the word!

  • ||

    Which I've always found bizarre in that "Oriental" = Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Mongolian, Manchurian, Vietnamese, Lao, Thai, whereas "Asian" also includes Indian, Tibetan, Iranian, Turk, Arab, Siberian and a whole host of other pretty unrelated people.

    Why is it okay to make generalized statements about "Asians" but "Oriental" is unacceptably racist?

  • Trollificus||

    Because Edward Said, I'm guessing.

  • ||

    That's the painful irony, though. Said was complaining that "Orientalism" conflated cultures as broadly different as Egyptian and Chinese. Replacing the term "Oriental" with "Asian" and proceeding to continue doing the exact same thing, including forbidding the use of the term "Oriental" to refer to a specific region that does have observable cultural commonality is a special kind of blindness.

  • mtrueman||

    "Why is it okay to make generalized statements about "Asians" but "Oriental" is unacceptably racist?"

    An interesting question. Off the top of my head, I'd say the culprit is the 'al' in Oriental. Adding the n to Asia, meaning 'from Asia.' The al added to the orient (the east) means having the character of the east, That's essentialism and a big no no for a lot of theorists, especially pomo leftists like Edward Said, whom I recommend as an intro for anyone interested in delving deeper. Asian means from Asia. Oriental means having the qualities of the east like mysterious, inscrutable, perverse and cruel.

  • RabbitHead||

    Referring to Asia as "the East" is unacceptably Euro-centric

  • mtrueman||

    These same pomo leftists have coined the eurocentric term, 'the global south' to refer to the less wealthy nations of the world, so I don't think your idea holds much water. I prefer mine. Essentialism is rather like Plato's forms, that concepts like 'the east' exist in some real way and have a definite character that imparts itself onto the hapless easterners.

  • ||

    I think it's because 'Asian' refers to a person whereas 'Oriental' more connotes a thing. So Oriental rugs are just fine, desirable even, but calling a person 'an Oriental', is a no-no. Semi-related, it's a little more implicit and nuanced in English, but in Japanese at least, and I suspect other Asian languages, they have 2 separate verbs for 'to be', one of which is reserved for people, the other for things.

    So I kind of get it.

  • John C. Randolph||

    "Oriental" is not, and has never been pejorative. If anyone gets in your face for saying it, tell them to fuck off.

    -jcr

  • Vernon Depner||

    The blind people I've known have used the word "see" as in "meet" un-self-consciously. Just like wheelchair users I've known speak of "standing" somewhere or "going for a walk" casually.

  • ||

    It's something Tonto would say on Lone Ranger. He's native American. Shouldn't we leave the outrage to native Americans?

    Either way it's fun to say something offensive as part of every day speech.

  • ||

    Shouldn't we leave the outrage to native Americans?

    Well, the Native Americans don't always cooperate when it comes to being offended by the right things.

  • Rock Lobster||

    And then they have the unmitigated gall to be offended by Elizabeth Warren, a tireless SJW who has fought in the trenches of the culture war since it became lucrative for her to do so, who bravely took a DNA test which incontrovertibly proves she is an authentic Cherokee.

    How dare they oppose their own self-interest and common sense! Fucking renegades are off the reservation.

  • Rock Lobster||

    And science! Don't they fucking love science?

  • NoVaNick||

    Me no Chinese, me ain't woke, CSU is a fucking joke

  • Intelligent Mr Toad||

    But am I allowed to say "Long time no viddy, droogie"? Or is that considered offensive to Russians?

  • Intelligent Mr Toad||

    But am I allowed to say "Long time no viddy, droogie"? Or is that considered offensive to Russians?

  • Azathoth!!||

    'viddy' and 'droogie' are borrowed from Australian slang.

    So no worries from the Russkies.

  • Trollificus||

    From the 60s?

    No, I suspect the Aussies snagged it from Nadsat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadsat), Burgesses' sublimated Russian-inflected street slang in Clockwork Orange.

  • Trollificus||

    Aussies borrowed it from Nadsat, the subliminally Russian-infused street slang in Clockwork Orange.

  • Salwar||

    Ohh what to say !! I heard this at least twice in a week from old friends

  • damikesc||

    At Colorado State University (CSU), administrators have designated the common greeting "long time, no see" as non-inclusive language.

    In their defense, they cannot justify their employment by any actual standards, so this is what they have to work with.

  • Tony G||

    What else was on the list?

  • Eddy||

    The usual - "chinks in the armor," "yellow-bellied," "slanted news coverage" (or slanted anything), un-synching your lips from your voice in imitation of characters in Kung Fu movies...the usual stuff.

  • Eddy||

    The word "rice" is offensive to Asians *and* Welsh.

    Any joke whose punch line is "an hour later you're hungry again."

  • Eddy||

    I think the Office of Diversity and Inclusion has issued a series of booklets about what kinds of things not to say.

  • Rock Lobster||

    From now on, the symbols "/" and "\" are forbidden. The politically replacement for both is "|."

    The internet will conform. Immediately.

  • Rock Lobster||

    *politically correct*

    Oops.

    The afternoon transition between caffeine and alcohol can be messy.

  • gaoxiaen||

    That's when you drink Irish coffee.

  • Rock Lobster||

    I like the cut of your jib!

  • Longtobefree||

    The words 'diversity', 'inclusive', and 'sensitive'.

  • VOTE MILES||

    Status: long time no see
    Reason: blind since birth

  • IndependentTexan||

    As a Texan, I am merely amused. If I were a taxpayer in Colorado I would be incensed. This is prima facie evidence that CSU is overstaffed and that therefore Coloradans are overtaxed.

  • hroark314||

    Hao jiu bu jian.

  • ||

    RACIST!

  • Blaze Miskulin||

    The really funny thing about this is that "好久不见" (hao jiu bu jian)--literally "long time, no see"--is a very common greeting in China. I lived there for 6 years, and had local colleagues say it to me all the time. It's exactly as "racially offensive" as "hello" (though.. after having "HAH-LOOOOH" shouted at you by strangers for years, it *does* get annoying).

    These idiots don't know what they're talking about.

  • Trollificus||

    I suspect most Chinese would consider this "Diversity Officer" to be a baizuo.

  • IndependentTexan||

    As a Texan, I am merely amused. If I were a taxpayer in Colorado I would be incensed. This is prima facie evidence that CSU is overstaffed and that therefore Coloradans are overtaxed.

  • Longtobefree||

    How about "many moons, no see-um"?

  • Rock Lobster||

    Nope. Insensitive to the plight of extremely tiny parasites... and to those who favor assless chaps.

  • Red Tony||

    Chaps are ALWAYS assless, you dumbass! You can't get chaps with an ass, because an ass is NEVER part of chaps! Go ahead, look for chaps with asses. YOU WON'T FIND ANY BECAUSE THE ASSLESSNESS IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE CHAPS! ASSLESS IS AN UNNECESSARY MODIFIER TO CHAPS! THEY ARE! JUST! CHAPS! NOT ASSLESS CHAPS! JUST! CHAPS!

  • Rock Lobster||

    That really chaps your ass, doesn't it?

  • Red Tony||

    Yes. Yes it does.

  • Rock Lobster||

    Here--have some ointment. It's unused. https://tinyurl.com/ya8gen9b

    And you should really stop wearing those things. They make you so grouchy.

  • Fredar||

    What?

    I'm half Asian and I don't even understand why that would be offensive?

    Some people just want the power and moral superiority...

  • ||

    Some people just want the power and moral superiority...

    Well they are a rather intoxicating combination.

  • BYODB||

    Well, I didn't expect that...

  • Rock Lobster||

    Nobody expects the...

    I just can't do it.

  • RPGuy16||

    ""One of these phrases was 'long time, no see,' which is viewed as derogatory towards those of Asian descent," wrote Leibee."

    Hmm. When I read the headline I had this pegged as offensive to blind people.

  • Jerry B.||

    I bought a dog whistle to call my dogs, but they don't hear it unless they want to.

  • Rock Lobster||

    ^Thread Winner!^

  • CE||

    I thought it would be deemed insensitive to the vision challenged (differently sighted?).

  • Dillinger||

    >>>I can't imagine anyone reading racial subtext into "long time, no see"

    you *do* draw a line somewhere.

  • Detroit Linguist||

    Unfortunately Robbie is one of those who imagine that 'y'all' is ungrammatical, despite the complete absence of evidence that it is (such as people correcting themselves, or only non-native speakers saying it etc.). Also, unfortunately this column has come to the attention of the American Dialect Society listserv, which I am a frequent contributor to [note deliberate preposition-stranding]. Although they agree that calling 'long time no see' racist is stupid, they also agree that calling 'y'all' ungrammatical is equally ignorant, and are mocking it and the idea that it's associated with 'free minds and free markets'. I had hoped Robbie would know better.

  • Dillinger||

    funny.

  • Rock Lobster||

    Very cunning, Mr. Linguist. Very cunning, indeed.

    Predilection for protruding prepositions, aside, of course.

  • Detroit Linguist||

    +1

  • TuIpa||

    "and ungrammatical"

    That would depend entirely on the dialect of English you were speaking. So no, actually, it isn't.

  • mtrueman||

    "I had hoped Robbie would know better."

    No glot. Clom Fliday.

  • AD-RtR/OS!||

    CSU is administered by morons, for morons.....CO taxpayers should stop supporting them.

  • Dan S.||

    I don't get it. What is the connection between "long time, no see" and Asian people? I thought they were going to say that it was offensive to the visually impaired, which would also be ridiculous, but at least I could see (perceive?) the train of thought that could be behind it. But "those of Asian descent"? Because they have "long eyes"? It's not the eyes that are referred to as being long, it's an interval of time. What is the supposed "offensiveness"?

  • vek||

    I thought blind people too...

    Perhaps it is because of Asians having little slanty eyes, and it implies they can't see? LOL WTF will SJWs come up with next!

  • RabbitHead||

    How does "fixin'ta" fit into all this?

  • John C. Randolph||

    Zahra Al-Saloom, director of diversity and inclusion at CSU

    What would the tuition be at CSU if they weren't employing useless bureaucrats to harass people?

    -jcr

  • cosMICjester||

    more PC BS pushed by SJW schl0m0 bolshevik b4strds.The only solution is the final solution part deux GAS THE K1KES

  • tlapp||

    All those offended I will continue to call snowflakes. And I don't care if they are offended for being called snowflakes.

  • HANSENWT||

    POWER...it all about power and racism (essentially reverse racism which is racism)....follow trends the last several years. Literally one group trolls the group they want to keep being seen as racist. Everything and anything is on the table...the trolled group usually has no idea or intent they are racist so their defense is planned for and that is seen as racist. The trolling group gains power by getting the trolled group in trouble ideally kicked out of student government, papers, school entirely. The control of the narrative and to assert their will is glorifying and they more then likely are in fact the racist and the school should be dealing with them but the schools are generally liberal and pushing for the same outcome. You guys and Y'all....20 years ago you guys was seen as "all of you" but feminist superiority can't have that so "you guys" is sexist and transphobic and you should be tossed off campus even though you have no idea what you just did and nothing against women. Think Title IX, Think Ford/Kavanaugh....basically rearranging the power ratio to a predefined argument you can't win even though you did nothing actually wrong.

  • vek||

    I use "you guys" all the time. Including when it's groups entirely populated by women. I will now NEVER stop using it, just because some SJWs apparently find it offensive.

  • Duelles||

    " Hey cracker! No tikee, no shirtee" might be considered equal protection?

  • kevrob||

    Sometimes cultural appropriation happened in the weirdest ways.

  • kevrob||

    @#$%!@

    Need edit button!

    cultural appropriation

  • nutso fasst||

    "I see," said the blind carpenter, as he picked up his hammer and saw.

  • Uncle Jay||

    CSU should also include the words, "white," "male," "Christian," "America," "freedom," "independence," "capitalism," and a host of other negative connotation words if they are to be a true re-education camp.
    Get going, CSU.
    You have a lot of censoring and controlling to do.

  • buybuydandavis||

    How dare you utter Oldspeak?!

    All those words have been removed from the latest Newspeak dictionary.

  • BabyLib||

    I thought I opened up The Onion today! No way this could be real! And yet, it is! One can just say OMG!

  • No Time for Fishing||

    So I should say "Hao jiu mei jian" instead?

  • UnrepentantCurmudgeon||

    Does it matter at all that most of the people I hear using the phrase "you guys" are young women talking to other young women? And often black and Hispanic women?

    Guess not, though it might make all those little liberal heads go fizzle-pop

  • buybuydandavis||

    "At Colorado State University (CSU), administrators have designated the common greeting "long time, no see" as non-inclusive language."

    I remember when we were supposed to be inclusive and embrace ebonics.

    The rule is whatever you do is racist. You must submit now.

  • Miter Broller||

    I'll take "Meaningless Language Policing" for 100, Pat.

  • ||

    See, I would have never thought 'offensive to Asians'. My money was on blind people. I guess they can just fuck off, then.

  • TxJack 112||

    Gee and I always thought the priority in college was education, not inclusion and word policing

  • vek||

    Fighting the urge to curb stomp sooooo hard... Sooooooooooooooo hard.

  • Two Buck Chuck||

    How about: "You PC, No Have Brain" ?

  • BSKazzy||

    Have we actually seen this list? Or are we going off one person's reports of what it said? I know colleges are doing lots of questionable or even stupid things, but we don't even know if this is a thing.

  • BSKazzy||

    "Inclusive language should not be taught at CSU, instead, each individual student should get to decide whether this is something they want to change, without anyone correcting them."

    Um... that isn't how education works.

  • VALIS||

    So, cmon, really... Are you shittin' me?

  • John C. Randolph||

    The proper response to anyone calling you a racist is "go fuck yourself, snowflake". Ironically, this is true whether or not you are in fact a racist.

    -jcr

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