MENU

Reason.com

Free Minds & Free Markets

Thanksgiving: A Day For Thumbing Your Nose at Those Haughty Elites!

Food historian Rachel Laudan on why we never add truffles to our turkeys.

When Thanksgiving became a national holiday back in 1863, it was a repudiation of the French aristocracy, says food historian Rachel Laudan. Europe's haute cuisine, contemporaries believed, "ruined the individual, the household, and the nation." Thus, this "simple meal...became a national celebration embracing all citizens," Laudan wrote in a 2013 Boston Globe essay.

Contemporary novelist and cookbook author Sarah Josepha Hale designed the standard Thanksgiving meal as an affirmation of our (small 'r') republican virtues. Turkey was cheap to procure, pumpkin pie was easy to make, and cranberry sauce was a simple take on the fancy toppings typical in a French court.

The meaning of Thanksgiving has changed over the years—thanks in part to Julia Child's successful effort to democratize French cuisine—but even today, "nobody suggests adding truffles to your turkey," Laudan says.

Nick Gillespie interviewed Laudan about the meaning of Thanksgiving, why she is not a fan of "organic" food, and other aspects of culinary history, drawing on her fascinating 2013 book, Cuisine & Empire.

Click below to listen to that conversation—or subscribe to our podcast at iTunes.

Don't miss a single Reason podcast or video! Subscribe, rate, and review!

Follow us at Soundcloud.

Subscribe to our video channel at iTunes.

Subscribe to our YouTube channel.

Like us on Facebook.

Follow us on Twitter.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • Pro Libertate||

    What about truffles in my potatoes or stuffing?

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    Try truffle oil. It's less expensive, and you still get all that flavor. =D

  • AlmightyJB||

    Or bacon fat

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    Agreed. That's old school. =)

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Bacon fat RULES!

  • XM||

    You Americans and your bacon

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Had bacon today at I-hop. We are doing the Thanksgiving thing tomorrow.

    YUM!

  • Rhywun||

    It's less expensive because most of them are artificially flavored.

    I tried "truffle fries" once and wondered what all the fuss was about. Disgusting.

    I like JB's bacon fat idea better.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I had some duck fat fries in Cincinnati last year that were pretty awesome.

  • Suell||

    Duck fat is to the potato as vanilla ice cream is to warm apple pie.

  • Fk Censorship||

    Oh suell , you and your euphemisms...

  • Rhywun||

    My god that sounds amazing.

  • EDG reppin LBC||

    Me too! Spme bar in OTR, can't remember the name. Googling...

  • EDG reppin LBC||

    Kreugers?

  • EDG reppin LBC||

    To be honest, much of my stay last year in Cincy is clouded by bourbon. Also Cleveland. And Chicago.

    Good trip.

  • AlmightyJB||

    It was Nickleson's Scottish Pub

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    You just have to get the good stuff Rhy. Goes good in Champ. =D

    http://allrecipes.com/recipe/100295/irish-champ/

  • Rhywun||

    I am a fan of all things onion. Yum.

  • Duke of url||

    YES!
    I eat them like apples!

  • Rhywun||

    No, that's just weird.

  • ||

    We use onions a lot in food, not as much as garlic, but still a lot. I can't even imagine eating an entire onion raw, though.

  • DenverJ||

    I love onion. It's starting to give me heartburn, though. Very sad, almost tragic.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Whole Foods sells duck fat behind the meat counter. Just saying.

  • Tagore Smith||

    Yeah, I'd be a bit surprised if the production of any generally available commercial truffle oil in the US involved harming actual truffles. The cost of infusing oil with truffles would be astronomical. It's a bit like Balsamic vinegar- they sell something called that for a few dollars a bottle, but "real" Balsamic is a very different thing, and not something you would use in a vinaigrette unless you were fabulously wealthy.

    But duck fat is a wonderful thing.

  • EDG reppin LBC||

    Bought some truffle salt in San Francisco two years ago. $30 for four ounces of salt. But it really is a nice way to top a steak. A little pinch will do.

  • ThomasD||

    Truffle oil is best suited for popcorn. Place a few drops in a large metal mixing bowl, smear it around with your finger, drop the fresh hot popcorn into the bowl and toss to give a nice even distribution.

  • PapayaSF||

    My popcorn: melted butter, chopped garlic, salt, paprika, and grated Parmesan.

  • CZmacure||

    Wow, we actually agree on something; that sounds delicious. I regularly put hot paprika on mine...

  • Zero Sum Game||

    Gillespie feeds The Jacket by stuffing handfuls of mashed potatoes and canned cranberries into the pockets. Everyone looks on, pretending they don't notice, like when their six-year-old does the same thing with the family dog.

  • MarkLastname||

    Robby does something similar to feed the Hair, though it prefers turkey, being carnivorous.

  • Sevo||

    "Thanksgiving: A Day For Thumbing Your Nose at Those Haughty Elites!"

    Reason.com thumbs its nose at those elite professional web-hosting services!

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    +1 Geocities page

  • Zero Sum Game||

    The squirrels have to eat too.

    Given the timing in the uptick of squirrel attacks, I can only speculate that it's actually been a poorly executed DDOS from angry proggies who blame us for not lining up in court for The Coronation. I doubt they'd report on it because that would give the bastards exactly what they want. It's half the reason the shrieking from democratic underground has been so funny.

  • Sevo||

    "...a poorly executed DDOS from angry proggies who blame us for not lining up in court for The Coronation..."

    Those guys are making me wish I had voted for Trump; losers.
    And:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAd3ALa--gg
    Never gets old.

  • MoreFreedom||

    LOL Sevo - thanks for sharing the squirrel chucker video.

  • CZmacure||

    It's the perfectly human combination of hilarity and cruelty that I so enjoy.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    I'd forgotten about them. A banner on their site now claims they were "hacked" on election night. How that happens to the smartest people in the world, I am not sure.

    For proof that they are the smartest people in the world, this is the first thread under the "Greatest Threads" section. It starts off with this post, an I am going to scrub up the language a bit and I recommend browsing it incogneato:


    Trump did not win


    Let us remember that. He will become Pres because the vagaries of a few States due to Voter suppression and perhaps hacking. Hillary beat him by over two million votes!
    I am tired of the lack of acknowledgement from all over that he really didn't win.
    I's Bush all over again.
    It won't stop him from f*ing everything up, but at least we shouldn't treat him as legitimate.

    With brilliance like that, I can see why they think they need to run everything with one party rule.

  • Rhywun||

    They really don't understand the basics of presidential elections, do they?

  • ||

    Yes, they understand. They should win and if not, then the system didn't work the way it should!

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    LOL, yes, their understanding is that the whole thing is a Politburo or Reichstag rubber stamp for their agenda. Any other outcome had to be trickery, cheating, or magic.

    The funniest part is they are the US party that is famous for all the vote rigging of the past, eventually admit to it decades later, and get pissed when their rigging fails.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    They don't understand that only two branches of federal government stand for election either. Alternately, maybe this one thinks that Republicans always control the courts. Who knows, it is like listening to poetry majors at the student's center talking about anything other than poetry.


    IronLionZion (15,660 posts)
    16. Is America ready for Republicans to pass constitutional amendments?

    because they only need 1 more state legislature to add to the 3 branches of federal government they control.
  • ||

    I like those guys, they're funny guys!

  • ||

    It's a sweater!

  • Chipwooder||

    Jefe, would you say I have a *plethora* of piñatas?

  • ||

    "I am a 54 year old, straight, white male living in red Virginia. I have cut ties with at least 12 people I have known and considered "friends" my whole life since the election. I am angered and sickened by the stupid!"

    Yes, that's the ticket! Everyone must agree with you or else you're better off dying alone and bitter!

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    If he would just hang around a college and stop telling people he is straight, he will make friends in spades.

  • Rhywun||

    I am angered and sickened by the stupid!

    Well, at least we have something in common.

  • Pro Libertate||

    The "stupid" harkens back to well before this election. We have this precious gift, of the kind given to us by one of those generations that comes every half millennium or so, for unprecedented freedom, prosperity, and technological advance. And we're throwing it all away for what?

    Much wiser and, frankly, better people understood from history, philosophy, and personal experience that we needed a mixed system, one with democratic, aristocratic, and monarchic features. But who understands that today? Who gets that checks and balances are a vital necessity if we want to avoid tyranny--which will come, if we don't make serious changes soon? I wonder how many people get this? A couple of million?

  • Austrian Anarchy||

  • BakedPenguin||

    They should be told that in the 2008 Dem Primary, Clinton also won the popular vote total over Obama, and that therefore Obama's victory was false, and every piece of legislation enacted under him is null and void.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    I wonder if the bitter clinger Clintonistas remember that, or did they so thoroughly roll over that it is not even the hint of a memory?

  • BakedPenguin||

    Thanksgiving ...was a repudiation of the French aristocracy

    That showed those long-dead aristocrats. Almost as much as chopping off their heads.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    No, aristocrats were still running the show in 1863. They had Emperor Napoleon III in charge at the time, after all. Some same, some different families as 18th century, and capable men who didn't stir too much trouble would be inducted into the ranks.
    Their aristocrats are still around, BBC had an article on them couple weeks ago.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Crap – you're right. Hangovers make me stupid.

    Seems like the lesson is: use woodchippers instead of guillotines.

  • Rhywun||

    I was surprised to learn that Germany still has people calling themselves nobles, too.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    They're a gas.

  • Rhywun||

    :/

  • MarkLastname||

    Germany officially abolished the nobility in 1919 at the insistence of the allies. Since then nobility is basically just a name, e.g. "Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg" means Klaus Schenk, count of Stauffenberg, basically legally means nothing but a bunch of middle names.

    Now, in Austria, they are more zealously anti-noble: it is actually illegal to have 'von' in your surname. So if your name is von Hochburg in Germany and you move to Austria, your name officially becomes just Hochburg.

  • Lee Genes||

    According to the story, the ANF was founded in the 1930s after two French nobles realised that the porter who was carrying their luggage at a Paris station was one of their own. They resolved to create and manage a fund to help distressed nobility - a function the ANF carries on to this day.

    Oh good lord

  • The Fusionist||

    Every ANF member gets a free pissboy.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    It's a voluntary association for mutual assistance. Kinda hilarious that French aristos adopted one of the facets of American democracy de Tocqueville (aristocrat himself) admired.

  • Rhywun||

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    The funny thing is that today's American nobility (celebrities) exert more influence on the average American than the French were ever able to muster in the 19th century.

  • Harvard||

    Church, feast, football. Screw the French

  • LurkinInaBuildin||

    Just make sure you get one who shaves her armpits on #4 there.

  • ||

    My grandfather on turkey: " The longer you cook them the tougher they get"

    He was referring to wild turkeys because that is all he ever had access to.

    Recently I went to cut firewood on the land he grew up on and a half dozen turkeys tried to bully me into feeding them. One of the bastards even tried to spur me.

    Fuck turkeys. I am having pork today. I shot the damned thing myself.

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    I have a herd of them that tun through my back yard. The Tom's can get pretty aggressive. They will peck you in the junk if they get close enough. =D

  • Cy||

    It would be a 'rafter' of turkeys. Peasant!

  • Cy||

    It would be a 'rafter' of turkeys. Peasant!

  • Zero Sum Game||

    Salty ham tears.

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    Wow, where do you live? The wild turkeys around here want nothing to do with people and scram as soon as they see one. That's because they are hunted.

  • Mongo||

    I see more wildlife living in the city than I ever do going out in the wilderness.

    The aggressive, wild turkeys were fairly common in the city until we had that bitter winter a few years ago.

  • ThomasD||

    Best way to cook a wild turkey is one of those bullet smokers, Place a pan of herbed water/wine in the lowest rack, and then a pan of diced summer squash directly below the bird.

  • Brochettaward||

    1. Fuck you, Nick.

    2. I feel like everyone is missing the boat on the fake news crap. Or at least not putting it in harsh enough terms. The media here isn't just angry and expressing sour grapes because Hillary won. The establishment and leftwing media are sharks in the water right now who have drummed a narrative out of thin air to go after a corporation that they increasingly have found themselves beholden to for revenue.

    Facebook drives an incredible amount of clicks for all the establishment media online. They have been attacking Facebook for denying it has an "editorial" position for months. By extension, they have been clutching pearls over how Facebook's editorial position is becoming their editorial position. The algorithm was created by humans, and it can be tweaked (to the benefit of the establishment media).

    What these assholes want, first and foremost, is to receive priority on Facebook news feeds without having to tweak their work to accomplish. Yea, there is an ideological component to all this. They quite clearly want a certain number of outlets favored by the algorithm, and nearly all of those will have a leftward bent. But this is first and foremost about preserving their microphones and squeezing out upstart competition. It's their way to try and re-exert their control.

    It's right there beneath the surface of every article on this subject. It's been building for months. it's the perfect win-win situation for these fucks.

  • Rhywun||

    I've wondered this before, but who gets their news from Facebook? Whenever I reluctantly find myself there, I see cat pictures and the latest goings on of my niece and nephew. I don't see any news, and I wouldn't even know where to find it.

  • Lee Genes||

    I have the same question, but my understanding is that millennials and the elderly use social media more for that purpose than Gen X'ers.

  • Acosmist||

    There are trending links on the right side that you can't hide, so maybe you haven't been on Facebook in a few years.

  • Rhywun||

    Ah OK, you have to go to your home page to see that. I never go to my home page. I only visit via links in email of my friends' and family's events and stuff, and there's no news there.

  • thrakkorzog||

    Don't feel too bad. I only use facebook for the baby and cat pictures also. If I want actual news then I go to news site.

  • DenverJ||

    Birthday reminders.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    Seems like a lot of 50+ year olds I went to highschool with get their news there, plus at least one uncle of mine.

    Those folk are the ones who exposed me to most of the headlines quoted in the recent fake news stories. None of them were promoting Trump with those articles, every damn one of them was trying to convince me (or anybody else reading their posts) not to vote for someone I wasn't going to vote for anyway.

    Right now the same folk are circulating a piece from The Atlantic on the alt-right gaggle, and claiming that Trump "never disavowed them." Posting a CNN article that says he actually did disavow alt-right is met with the expected backpedaling jive.

    Replying with a clip of Obama telling his Clintonista brown-tie-dye-shirt shock troops to keep fighting is met with silence.

    These are the people who get their news from Facebook.

  • Holger da Dane||

    Live by the prog - die by the prog.

  • MarkLastname||

    A bunch of Facebook employees petitioned the leadership to explicitly use Facebook to stop Trump; they felt it was their duty to abandon neutrality. Zuckerburg overruled them. Something similar happened at Twitter.

    Ironically, Zuckerburg and his pragmatism (not wanting to alienate a bunch of his customers) are the only things standing in the way of progs basically weaponizing facebook against "the right".

    I wonder how far behalf be google is. Google news still shows conservative new sources occasionally, even breitbart once in a while. Not as often as Salon of course. I wonder when they're going to 'human audit' those right of center sources into oblivion.

  • A Thinking Mind||

    I don't really believe something like Facebook could be weaponized that way. But I'll hedge on that just slightly, since the first rule of propaganda is to keep repeating the same lie over and over with conviction.

    My belief is that the market will correct itself. If Facebook tried to exert power as a leftist progressive news force, it would lose users and hurt advertisers. That's not to say it will never happen, but if they made that decision, they'd find themselves becoming irrelevant. The people who hang around are the sorts who are already receptive to their message, and those who leave would be the people they needed to convince.

  • ||

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    What up, Bruce! You don't come around here no more
    Happy Thanksgiving to you.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Happy Thanksgiving Reason writers and commentariat. I appreciate Reason posting some articles for us on the Holiday.

  • BigT||

    A veritable Thanksgiving feast:

    Stuffing : Veronique de Rugy
    Turkey: Steve Chapman
    Mashed potatoes: Charles Oliver
    Booze: Nick

    Dessert? .... The Commentariat!!

  • Duke of url||

    Gravy : ENB
    Re gifted moldy fruit cake: Dalmia

  • Harvard||

    Soggy giblet "parts" bag left in the clammy raw cooked turkey: Richmond

  • Cdr Lytton||

    There's no difference between Thanksgiving and May 3rd.

  • Suell||

    Thanksgiving is the best frickin' holiday of the year. Eat large amounts of food, drink, hang out with friends and family, watch football, and get a four day weekend to keep the fun going. I personally love me some turkey, stuffing, marshmallow yams, mashed potatoes and gravy so that makes it all the better. Whatever you are eating enjoy the bounty that we have in this country. Happy Thanksgiving to all the reason commentariat!

  • AlmightyJB||

    "Thanksgiving is the best frickin' holiday of the year."

    Agreed.

  • Krabappel||

    Thanksgiving is either the best holiday of the year or the worst holiday of the year depending on who I am spending it with. Extended famiy? Worst holiday. Close friends and siblings? Best holiday.

    I'm having 3 this year - the first is a rib roast my partner is making so it will be just me, him, and our cats. Then going to have dinner with my brother tonight (I think he is making steak... ) and then we are flying to see family tomorrow and having traditional thanksgiving. I'm not excited about that but I did make sure that we fly in at noon, and fly out at 7AM the next morning - flights were really cheap for that too.

  • BigT||

    Diet starts Saturday afternoon?

  • Krabappel||

    I don't need to diet from eating meat -- I will probably go to the gym and lift weights Saturday though so I can eat more meat!

  • GILMORE™||

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Oh, you're one of those people.

  • GILMORE™||

    Catholic?

    no, i just like the secularness/beer&explosions; part of the 4th. i'm not a scrooge-type by nature.

  • Suell||

    If they ditched the "4th" part and just made it Independence Day and put it on the first Thursday of July and followed it with the holiday of Hangover Day on the Friday then it could compete with Thanksgiving.

  • GILMORE™||

    Sorry, "eating dinner with family and watching football" is stuff you can do any time of the year.

    Getting drunk in your own backyard with no shirt on... while setting off explosives = and having that BE NORMAL, RESPECTABLE BEHAVIOR? Priceless.

  • GILMORE™||

    Getting drunk in your own backyard with no shirt on... while setting off explosives

    *no offense to people who live in the Gulf Coast area. I am aware this is a normal everyday thing.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    You may have stumbled on the way to Make America Great Again. If that becomes respectable behaviour any day of the year...

  • Agammamon||

    Getting drunk in your own backyard with no shirt on... while setting off explosives = and having that BE NORMAL, RESPECTABLE BEHAVIOR? Priceless.

    You . . . you can't do that any time of the year? We call that 'Sunday evening' around here.

  • GILMORE™||

    Yankees aint got no culture. (spits)

  • Tejicano||

    Yeah, I think this is one of those things that keeps me from thinking about moving back to the US. I'm not sure I could accept being in the US but having neighbors that would object to me firing my belt-fed machinegun on the 4th of July.

    I love the looks on peoples' faces, when seeing pictures of my arsenal, asking me where I can shoot a 30 caliber machinegun mounted on a pick-up truck - my answer is always : "Anywhere I want to"

  • Pro Libertate||

    Why not September 15?

  • Cy||

    I think Christmas could easily beat it if we get rid of the damn present exchange thing.

  • GILMORE™||

    this "simple meal...became a national celebration embracing all citizens,"

    Yeah, ok. Call me back when you meet someone who actually eats cranberry sauce any of the other 364 days of the year.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    *raises hand*

    It's delicious with any roast. Lamb, pork, beef.

  • GILMORE™||

    maybe i'm the weird one then.

  • thrakkorzog||

    I eat cranberry sauce at christmas, plus for like the next week.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The argument is that the Thanksgiving meal is basically a standardized version of a traditional Sunday roast. Laudan is connecting the meal to the age old English vs. French food rivalry that served as a proxy for greater differences in culture and worldview. As the ballad The Roast Beef of Old England begins:


    When mighty Roast Beef was the Englishman's food,
    It ennobled our brains and enriched our blood.
    Our soldiers were brave and our courtiers were good

    Oh! the Roast Beef of old England,
    And old English Roast Beef!

    But since we have learnt from all-vapouring France
    To eat their ragouts as well as to dance,
    We're fed up with nothing but vain complaisance

    Oh! the Roast Beef of Old England,
    And old English Roast Beef!

    The formula for an English roast is roast meat, potatoes, stuffing, gravy, vegetables. A sauce or relish, like mint jelly, apple sauce, or cranberry sauce are traditional accompaniments for various meats. Try cranberries with roast duck and you'll see the wisdom of it, I assure you.

  • Yusef Adama||

    ^ this.
    Sundays at my in Laws after church, and right before the afternoon Game (Foosball)

  • BigT||

    Oh, these euphemisms!

  • ||

    Conway receiving backlash over mention of Romney as SOS

    Would be nice if they also ignore advice from SoCon and Neocon trash like Nukeler Newton and Huckleberry.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Huh, I remember when Obama was putting together his first cabinet, tons of articles were written jerking off about how he's making "A Team of Rivals" just like Lincoln. Yet, I don't think any of them called him a fraud or campaigned against him after he got the nomination.

  • Acosmist||

    Didn't know they were Jewish former Communists who veered right in the 1980s. Learning something new every day.

  • GILMORE™||

    former Communists who veered right in the 1980s

    I think it was more like the 1960s, and they mostly veered because of vietnam/the cold war.

    Neocons were very-liberal/left-wing, but staunchly anti-communist. That's sort of the whole point.

    Neocons were urban intellectual liberals (*read: jewish) who didn't get down with the whole 1960s counter-culture leftism ('new left')... they disliked the hippies and the sympathy they had with socialists, and while they agreed on stuff like how the US needed a big-government and big-welfare system and very-liberal domestic policies... they strongly disagreed on foreign policy, believing that the US had a Wilsonian moral obligation to make the rest of the world 'safe for democracy'; iow, use American diplomatic and military might to eliminate socialist regimes and defend liberal-democratic ideas, even in places we have no direct interests.

    I think they never became *seen* as part of Team Red until the 1980s. In the 60s and 70s, they were still distinctly a team-blue minority, and maybe existed only on college campuses. But i think by the 80s, a few of them began working in govt w/ the Reagan admin.

  • MarkLastname||

    Actually, there was a decent Foreign Affairs article on the subject.

    Basically, it pointed out that Irving Kristol and the first gen neocons were largely revolting against the Johnson admin and the Grear Society. Kristol and his ilk were big enthusiasts of supply side economics. They also happened to be staunch Cold Warriors.

    It was after the end of the Cold War that there was a split: Kristol was (at first; I don't know his positions were later) quite anti-interventionist. He even opposed the Gulf War. However, some of his erstwhile co-ideologists refused to accept that the Cold War was over and started looking for a new enemy in the Middle East, and their version of neoconservatism attracted a lot more people from the social and economic left.

  • GILMORE™||

    Would be interested in reading what you're referring to if you have a link.

    he first gen neocons were largely revolting against the Johnson admin and the Great Society

    yes, but i think it should be seen in context not of the details of the policies so much as the direction in which the Democrat party was headed in all areas of life. as the wiki entry notes

    As the policies of the New Left made the Democrats increasingly leftist, these intellectuals became disillusioned with President Lyndon B. Johnson's Great Society domestic programs. The influential 1970 bestseller The Real Majority by Ben Wattenberg expressed that the "real majority" of the electorate endorsed economic liberalism but also social conservatism, and warned Democrats it could be disastrous to adopt liberal positions on certain social and crime issues.[35]

    I'm not really nitpicking w/ you. I just think for the sake of using the term "neocon", it should be thought of not as "whatever Irving Kristol thought".... but more in the sense of the opposite corner of the Nolan Chart from Libertarianism / Realism - as in =

    'Economically Liberal, Socially Conservative, and prone to initiate force internationally even in cases where US interests are directly affected"....

  • GILMORE™||

    *on that last point - re: Foreign Policy, and why i think its the area in which they should be considered most significantly...

    some of the things you'll hear from them may seem ostensibly contradictory - especially if you think in the sort of interventionist/non-interventionist false-dichotomy terms that are tossed around here so often...

    there's no such thing as 'non-intervention'; the only concern people like them had was "how and why" the US engages in use of force.

    So you might find them saying, "we shouldn't take baghdad" in Gulf I. And opposed to Bush I's massive coalition.

    Which is *not at all* the same thing as saying, "we shouldn't fight Saddam", or taking a so-called noninterventionist view.

    The things that made Neocons different from traditional wilsonians is that they were adamant about using power Unilaterally (they hated coalitions), and that they hated the idea of "nation building" - an expression that they might have even invented in the late 1980s... referring to the idea that the US military should be responsible for its adversaries after they're beaten.

    Without belaboring the point - their objection w/ Bush I (and even Reagan's) FP approach was, -much like their problem w/ Great Society - not a problem with the policy, per se, but the direction in which it was leading. (*greater reliance on UN approval, coalition warfare, post-war nation building etc)

  • GILMORE™||

    even in cases where US interests are NOT directly affected"....
  • MarkLastname||

    Sure; it was actually Foreign Policy, not Foreign Affairs.

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2009/.....servative/

    Certainly, it is confusing though as Irving Kristol is often described as the father of neoconservatism (and one of the only neocons who embraced the label). Insofar as one can speak of a 'post-Cold War non-interventionist subspecies of neoconservatism', it likely an extinct subspecies, considering even his son has gone in the opposite direction.

  • Ted S.||

    Are you talking pig-found truffles, or chocolate truffles? :-)

  • Krabappel||

    BTW if you've never had green bean casserole made from scratch (i.e. not soup from a can), it really is incredibly good. I actually have hated it my whole life because Campbell's cream of mushroom soup is nasty but last year we made this recipe:

    http://www.seriouseats.com/rec.....ecipe.html

    I could eat a whole bowl of just fried shallots.

  • Rhywun||

    I always hated beans but yeah that looks great. Agree about the shallots.

  • Krabappel||

    The funny thing is that green bean casserole only exists because of campbell's soup so now we're taking mid-century processed food inventions and turning them into real food.

  • Rhywun||

    Update this.

  • Krabappel||

    Sometimes the past is best left alone.

  • Ted S.||

    That's gotta be a fake.

  • Rhywun||

    Do a search for "Gallery of Regrettable Foods" and behold the wonders of fifties cuisine.

  • Sevo||

    Keeping an eye out for (prolly) NYT headline:

    "Trump Goofs Off With Only 60 Days Left!"

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    A DOSE OF REALITY

    by Political Analyst
    F. Gavin Entwistle


    Donald Trump, erstwhile of NBC's reality TV-show (read: freak-show) The Apprentice, has blustered his way into the halls of power in Washington DC. What has become clear in the weeks since is that Trump and his team have been exposed as woefully unprepared for what assuming power entails.

    For all the legitimate complaints by Hillary Clinton supporters about the counterintuitive nature of the Electoral College, it must be acknowledged that its anti-democratic design does have the benefit of overriding the electorate on those thankfully rare occasions when it falls under the spell of an erratic, bigoted misogynist.

    So if the tyrant-elect is too busy tweeting, if Lady Melania finds the White House beneath her impeccable standards, if Team Trump is courting a Rogue's Gallery of Cabinet nominees, perhaps on December 19th, the presidential electors can play their Trump card, so to speak - and tell the Donald, "You're fired!"
  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    That's...that's satire, yes? I mean. "F Gavin Entwistle"? No one is named that, unless they are P G Wodehouse character.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    He's really very good at this.

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    It's a thing I'm trying out. Yesterday it was Harmony Llewelyn-Sanchez' piece on Thanksgiving. Basically, try and bash out a stupid, hacky little micro-editorial based on derp every day is the goal. Hope it comes across as somewhat authentic. And as Michael Schur once said, "The names have been ridiculousized for my amusement".

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    You should submit this to Salon. Just tone the language down a bit, and expand it to at least ten paragraphs.
    Hmmm....I wonder if putting some "former libertarian" stuff would over egg the pudding. But the central thesis is Salon-sound.

  • Kevin Sorbos Manful Locks||

    F. Gavin Entwistle is going in my name list for DnD NPCs.

  • ||

    This is the New and more objective NYT.

  • DEG||

    Did I miss the debauchery?

  • Krabappel||

    We could all talk in weird commonwealth accents.

    G'day guvnah!

  • DEG||

    G'day! Pint a' bitter?

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

  • DEG||

    I like that the soon after the "debauchery is my favorite pastime" line we get a shot of CGI cleavage.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    That while scene is hilarious. "We're hanging them as terrorists" "got proof?"
    "No, but the bard is a debaucher of ill character"

    After he riles the mob and accused are let loose

    "So what really happened?"

    "I swear I'm innocent, Geralt. That watchtower going up in flames wasn't my fault! We'll not completely."

  • John Titor||

    Roche is still the best Witcher 2 companion largely due to his comment about Triss' ass.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Roche is a true bro and I have no idea what Djikstra was thinking in Witcher 3? Has he not seen my galloping hypocrisy about The Witcher Code by that point?

  • John Titor||

    We were, but then the Americans showed up and ruined it, just like the Second World War.

  • DEG||

    Given Britain's track record against Japan, the Americans showing up is probably a good thing.

  • John Titor||

    Only cause they didn't have Jack Churchill. Plan was to drop him on the Home Islands and watch him single-handedly beat every Japanese officer in a sword fight.

  • DEG||

    That would be something to see.

  • DEG||

    Alzheimer's drug fails clinical trial

    A large trial of a drug to treat dementia caused by Alzheimer's disease has ended in failure after people receiving the treatment showed no significant improvements to those taking a placebo.
    The failure of the much anticipated drug, which showed promise in earlier results, is being seen as a disappointing setback, but not the end of hopes to fight the disease.

  • ||

    Jill Stein a hero

    The left are freaking the fuck out.

    Don't even read the comments, you've been warned.

  • Rhywun||

    The talking point seems to be that the election was 'hacked'.

    If Jill Stein gets us out of this mess Hillary should appoint her as head of the EPA.

    lolwut

  • ||

    Stein is smarter than we thought. She's figured out that Democrat voters are dumb enough to give away their money for a lost cause. An audit is probably not what they want. Taking away all the illegal and dead votes from Hillary, might just hand Trump a landslide.

  • Chip Your Pets||

    She will have to raise $7 million for the recounts in all three states, after raising $3.5 million for her entire campaign until the election. So it's clear these are really Hillary donations.

    Taking away all the illegal and dead votes from Hillary, might just hand Trump a landslide.

    Recounts won't take that into account. There is no way of connecting a ballot to a voter at this point.

  • thrakkorzog||

    Remember the halycon days of three weeks ago when questioning the results of the election was unpatriotic, and there was absolutely no evidence of voter fraud?

  • DEG||

    Yes, I do! I am not surprised at the Left's switch.

  • ||

    Wait until next time Dems win the Whitehouse with the electoral college and lose the popular. "We love the electoral college, we've always loved it!" Lol.

  • Tejicano||

    I suppose you might also be aware that the sun rises in the east. And you probably got that memo about water being wet.

  • Chip Your Pets||

    I'm just trying to figure out how the left would react if Trump paid for recounts in NH, NV, and VA.

    Could the contortions necessary to decry those recounts while supporting Stein's recounts be beyond even them?

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    They do understand which side has overwhelming majority of privately owned firearms, bulk of police and at least 2/3 of the armed forces, yes?

  • ||

    They're not living in reality. So no, they don't realize that or anything else. There's one idiot on there saying that because all of the media were saying Hillary would win, there must be something wrong. Another is calling for violence if Stein's obviously brilliant plan does not work. Sure, whatever, why aren't all of these wackos in Canada yet?

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Their spirit is.

    I was gonna save it for Lynx, but our State Broadcaster has found A Real Problem because students at a party dressed up as Other Cultures. University of course freaked out, and we get a lecture on How Racist This Is. This is new, and came from US.

    Reason to be thankful: comments are flaying the idiot journo, idiot administration and one single idiot who complained and started the whole thing.

  • John Titor||

    I've got an insider on the Queen's disciplinary department, and I was talking to her yesterday about this. Idiot journalist is going to be disappointed, they're 'investigating' in the sense of 'goddammit this became national news for some reason, so we need to look like we're doing something.' The student code of conduct indicates that they can only punish them if they were representing themselves in a way that would reflect poorly on the university (i.e. if they have a big Queen's banner or are all wearing Queen's shirts). Apparently the disciplinary departments are passing it back and forth like a hot potato, hoping that it just disappears from the news so they can respond by doing nothing.

  • SoCal Deathmarch||

    Holy shit, it's even worse than I could have ever imagined. These people are delusional and it appears they have lost any ability to accept reality on realities terms. I do believe the most important question now becomes, when does the violence begin? They have simultaneously convinced themselves of their own virtue and the evilness of their enemies. It's only a small skip and a jump to justified violence, which I imagine will begin very early in 2017. I think we are about to see a 1970's re-run of domestic terrorism Weather Underground style... grab some popcorn cause the shitshow is about to begin.

    P.S. I really, really hope I'm wrong about this.

  • Mauser||

    There is a chance for SHTF. But you have to admit a Trump v Clinton 2.0 would be immensely entertaining.

  • Chip Your Pets||

    The worst part is -- there's going to be poop on the blades regardless. If they somehow overturn the results in PA, MI, and WI (and they need all of them), the other side is going to be in the streets.

    At that point the left will return to their position that election results are sacrosanct and cannot be questioned, of course.

  • A Thinking Mind||

    We're not at that point yet. While I think the Clintons are going to keep a low profile for the next two months, Obama has already urged for a peaceful transfer of power. He is viewed much more positively than either Hillary or Trump, at the moment. There's almost no way he'll back down from that position. As weird as it is, he's the voice of reasonable Democrats at the moment.

    The wackos who refuse to accept this are a fringe, though a surprisingly large fringe. My conjecture is that it's no more than 1% of the actual electorate, and once they realize how isolated they are, they'll be forced away from violent ideology into noisy indignance.

    I honestly think this story is being overpromoted by news organizations. This election cycle was golden for ratings and pageclicks and now that it's over, they're still pretending the election is news in order to keep getting views.

  • Chip Your Pets||

    Recounts are harmless if they are really just honestly recounting ballots that were already counted to check for errors.

    Unfortunately, that's often not what happens. Dems are notorious for "finding" bags of ballots that weren't counted before.

    In MI, the margin is close enough that an honest recount may swing the election to Clinton, and PA is run by Democrats so the corruption approach might work there to swing the EVs.

    Of course, that only gets them to Trump 270, Clinton 268. So they need Wisconsin too, which ain't gonna happen with a Republican state govt and a wide margin.

  • Dallas H.||

    Michigan has already recounted and certified.

  • Chip Your Pets||

    Actually the counties certified and reported their original counts to the state. There hasn't been any recount or certification by the state.

  • DEG||

    Seabrook, NH man settles with town officials over keeping a boat in his driveway

    A Seabrook fisherman who's been fighting to keep his 22-foot boat parked in his driveway has settled the dispute after a court battle.

    Anthony Coletti Sr. recently reached an agreement with officials from the Seabrook Beach Village District.

    The deal was made through arbitration, but details of the settlement have not been released.

    Coletti said he couldn't comment on the settlement, saying only that the "litigation has ended and an agreement has been made."

    Because specifics of the agreement are not yet available in the file at Rockingham County Superior Court, it's unclear whether Coletti will be able to keep the boat in the front yard as he hoped.

    However, Coletti said, "I'm happy that we reached an agreement. I'm very pleased."

  • DEG||

    Coletti has spent months fighting to keep the boat parked in front of his house located in the Seabrook Beach Village District after Stephen Keaney, the village district's building inspector, filed a petition in court in January seeking an injunction that would have forced him to move the boat.

    Keaney had claimed the boat violates a village district zoning change adopted in 2014 that effectively bans boats from front yards in the village district, which is separate from the town.

    Among his many arguments, Keaney's petition noted that if residents were allowed to "haphazardly park recreational and/or commercial boats in their front yards, a nuisance is created which destroys the residential fabric of the community."

    Live Free or Die!

  • Sevo||

    They're dead.

  • Ted S.||

    He should have argued that he was waiting for global warming to turn his house into beachfront property.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Driveway= OK

    On the street = fuck off

  • DEG||

    Aussie man in underwear chases down hit n run suspect

    A bystander dressed only in underpants helped police arrest an unlicensed driver who allegedly crashed a car into an Australian takeout restaurant on Thursday then fled.

    Daniel McConnell said he was lying in bed at home in the Brisbane suburb of Hendra at 2 a.m. when a car slammed into the front of a neighboring fish-and-chips shop, which had closed for the night.

    "I've come outside and I've seen all of this commotion over here and I was in me jocks," McConnell told Australian Broadcast Corp., referring to his briefs.

  • Rhywun||

    I've heard that Queensland is the Florida of Australia.

  • ||

    I don't really get he wisdom of running outside in your underwear and chasing down a likely very intoxicated driver.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Did he catch the guy?

    You can't argue with results.

  • DEG||

    I've been to Brisbane. I can see the comparison.

    Right across the street from my hotel for that stay was a gun shop with enormous signs advertising the guns they carried.

  • ||

    The guy looks like your typical resident of Ocean City, MD. Except he has less tattoos and more teeth.

  • The Heresiarch||

    Fuck this simple meal bullshit. I haven't had turkey in years for Thanksgiving. Filet and lobster for me, with some Silver Oak to wash it down. Suck it, cranberry-scarfing peasants!

  • ||

    So far today, 1 beer that I'm drinking right now and I made a gallon of fresh salsa. Wife is cooking game hens. Not sure what else we're having, we have tons of food and alcohol in the house, so it's all good.

  • The Heresiarch||

    Today will be a good day. Happy Thanksgiving to all!

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Enjoy it, you lot. Us Canadians will try to keep up the shitposting quota.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure that every libertarian in Canada is on this site. I mean, there can't be more, right?

  • DEG||

    Sometimes, I think there are as many Canadian libertarians as there are American libertarians.

  • ||

    Are there any libertarian candidates there? If not, ya'll are all welcome to move here. We may be able to start actually swinging elections in a few more years and even get into the debates.

  • Holger da Dane||

    Sick burn!

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Lauren Southern doesn't post here because No Female Libertarians etc but she might be a nazi alt-righter like all non-cosmos, so...

  • DEG||

    So she should post here.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Right, Guardian said so. Good thinking, I'll see if I can find her at the next fleur-de-lis burnin'.

  • DEG||

    Wonderful! I wish you success!

  • John Titor||

    Goddammit, I WISH Lauren Southern was on this site.

    And I'm pretty sure Tim Moen doesn't post here either.

  • ||

    *Hoists giant mug of delicious salty prog tears* Cheers!

  • DEG||

    Prost!

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Na zdarovye!

  • ||

    Saude!

  • ||

    I see that H&R doesn't allow accent marks.

  • Ted S.||

    It doesn't allow foreign characters if they're considered to take up too great a percentage of the text.

    If there are only a few, you can get away with foreign characters: Блядь!

  • The Heresiarch||

    Você fala português?

  • ||

    Sim, falo. E voce?

    I can't get accents to post, weird. Every time I try, the comment won't post. Oh well...

  • The Heresiarch||

    Um pouco. Os meus pais sao portugueses (do Algarve).

  • ||

    I see. My wife is Brazilian.

  • The Heresiarch||

    Congratulations. Brazil is the Land of Supermodels.

  • ||

    Have your been to Portugal? I missed my chance when my daughter-in-law was living there. Wife got to go though. She said it's wonderful. I'd still like to go there and especially to the Azores.

  • The Heresiarch||

    Yes - I highly recommend it. My buddy owns a couple of houses in the Azores so that's a trip I'll be making soon. I'd also like to check out Madeira.

  • ||

    Awesome! I'm jealous, the Azores is one of my top must do future trips. Daughter-in-law was living in Lisbon but moved to Germany, so now hoping for Octoberfest in Germany next year and at least one trip to Brazil to someplace I haven't been yet, like Fernando de Noronha. We have a house in Recife so should be a pretty quick flight from there.

  • DEG||

    Oktoberfest is fun. The locals prefer the weekdays.

  • The Heresiarch||

    I'll be in South America for my bachelor party next year, though we haven't decided between Columbia and Brazil. I hope I don't die, either way.

  • ||

    Well, I don't run around in Brazil unless I'm with Brazilians, so I always feel safe there. Columbia is not safe, either. Be careful.

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    Columbia is not safe, either.

    That's what Mattress Girl kept saying, Hyp! Any thoughts on Colombia?

  • ||

    /pedantic

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    PICS

  • BakedPenguin||

    You have to do them as HTML characters.

    Então, aprender alguns HTML se você não tiver jà.

  • ||

    Nope, I'll just write here in English since it's an American site. And you know, since we Norte Americanos are superior.

  • Rhywun||

    Gsuffa!

  • DEG||

    So far today, I got some work done in the yard. Flurries while I was working. I just finished a cup of coffee which included one shot each of Bailey's and Kahlua. I have a few more things to do around the house, which I will get to soon. I will drink beer afterwards.

  • Agammamon||

    *Sometimes* I miss it never being cold enough to enjoy a coffee with a shot of Baileys.

    Sometimes.

    'Tis 76 right now, will get all the way down to 48 tonight.

  • DEG||

    "Never being cold enough to enjoy a coffee with a shot of Baileys"?

    I do not understand those words. They look like English but make no sense when arranged in that order.

  • Ted S.||

    I already made muffins and apple crisp; later I'll make the turkey steaks, Stove Top stuffing and instant potatoes.

  • Rhywun||

    instant potatoes

    Philistine.

    I am the laziest cook imaginable but you can't do that to potatoes.

  • Ted S.||

    I'm only cooking for two.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    You can buy non-instant potatoes at the grocery store, already cooked. Just add a little extra butter, that's where they cheat you.

  • GILMORE™||

    I am the laziest cook imaginable but you can't do that to potatoes.

    I agree. As an irishman i feel like its my duty to stand up for the dignity of the potato.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Instant potatoes are fine for a late night snack but not for a proper meal.

  • Rhywun||

    Fair enough. But I always ate instant until last year I decided to up my game a little in the kitchen, and now I can't imagine going back. It helps that I don't ever bother peeling them.

  • juris imprudent||

    Stove Top stuffing and instant potatoes.

    Why didn't you just go to Dennys?

  • Rhywun||

    Fun fact. An ex was living with an older couple who never, ever cooked. He had me over for Thanksgiving once, which turned out to be a Jersey Chinese buffet joint. At least Denny's probably has turkey.

  • Agammamon||

    There is, literally, no excuse for doing instant potatoes instead of fresh. Its like minute rice - if your schedule is so tight that you can't afford the time it takes to make rice then you don't actually have time to eat at all.

    Seriously though - peel, cut in half and 2 in thick slices, put in a pot of water and let boil until soft. Cook the rest of dinner while waiting. When soft, drain the water, add milk (WHOLE - not skim) and a shit ton of butter. smash up - not too much, lumpy mashed potatoes have a mouth feel that is far superior to the creamy smooth type. And then serve.

    I like to add a bit of butternut squash to it also.

  • ||

    I love real mashed potatoes. We rarely make them, but I haven't ate those instant mashed potatoes for at least 20 years. Those were the boxed potato and canned soup days, the bad old days.

  • Tagore Smith||

    Also, potatoes only take about 5-6 minutes at pressure in a pressure cooker. Rice is about the same. The electric pressure cookers can take a while to come to pressure, but are convenient for their "set and forget" nature. Stove-top models come to pressure very quickly if you have a decent gas range or electric burners (I have, unfortunately, an electric stove, but one advantage of that is that pressure cooking becomes marvelously quick.

  • Mauser||

    O c'mon, who can resist escargot! Snails go great stuffing and pumpkin pie.

  • Pro Libertate||

    A place near us does a squid ink pasta with lobster, escargot, and crab. Oh, yeah.

  • ||

    Squirrels are back...

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    They never left. Always there, always watching, and only STEVE SMITH can keep them at bay. But is that price worth paying?

  • MarkLastname||

    STEVE SMITH RENDER SERVICE WHETHER WANT IT OR NOT!

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    Fuck you, Jim Caldwell. The Lions could have attempted a 67 yard field goal to end the half, but they tried a Hail Mary.

    I WANTED TO SEE A KICKED FOOTBALL TRAVEL 200 FEET IN THE AIR AND CLEAR A CROSSBAR 10 FEET OFF THE GROUND, GODDAMMIT

  • ||

    Can their kicker actually hit a 67 yard field goal? Isn't the record 64 or 65?

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    Detroit's kicker is the current record holder at 64 yards. What's nine more feet?

  • Ted S.||

    Wasn't that FG at altitude when Prater was with the Broncos?

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    Yeah. Still, though - give him a shot already!

  • The Fusionist||

    I'm a let you finish your Thanksgiving, but first, this piece of moral equivalencizing about gifts and emoluments from foreign governments to federal officials.

  • The Fusionist||

    (and as for the Emoluments clause of the Constitution being "non-justiciable," impeachment is a judicial proceeding)

  • Ted S.||

    And the TEAM BE RULED sides going at each other in the comments.

  • wheelchairsinthesnow||

    Re: Thumbing Your Nose at Haughty Elites

    That is unless you are one of us deplorables who is overseas dying to assure these haughty elites remain wealthy and in power and their kids don't have to serve.

  • Old Man's and Trail 2||

    What the fuck happened to Sarcasmic and Irish?

  • ||

    Haven't seen Irish in a while, but sarc was here ... I'm thinking not more than a week ago, maybe I'm wrong.

  • Ted S.||

    Sarcasmic's ex sicced the child protection folks on him. I thought Irish changed his handle, but I'm probably mixing him up with a bunch of other posters.

  • Real and Legitimate News, Jr.||

    sarcasmic pops up here and there, not too often these days. Irish - that's harder to fathom. It's not because of us, we're all white, after all.

  • yet another dave||

    Maybe he's too busy putting his new cabinet together?

  • Holger da Dane||

    +1 Ikea

  • Old Man's and Trail 2||

    Ok, thanks everyone. Happy Thanksgiving to all! I'll be barely sober and in a meat coma in a few hours.

  • DEG||

    Anyone hear from Almanian?

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    He's trying to eat a turkey, but it keeps running away.

  • DEG||

    He could shoot it.

  • ||

    Happy Thanksgiving turkeys!

  • DEG||

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  • AlmightyJB||

    Did something different with the turkey this year. Roasted breast in oven sans extremities. Browned in cast iron pan then cooked wings, legs, and thighs in the slow cooker with broth, carrots, celery, onion, sage, and thyme. Based on recipe below. Turned out awesome. Dark meat falling off bone. Breast perfectly done.

    http://www.foodnetwork.com/rec.....gravy.html

  • MarkLastname||

    Deep fried turkey is easy and delicious, and I say this as a northerner.

  • Agammamon||

    . . . but even today, "nobody suggests adding truffles to your turkey," Laudan says.

    Somebody hasn't actually been paying attention to what people are eating at Thanksgiving.

    Sure, they may not be stuffing it with truffles, but they're baking them, broiling them, deep frying them, grilling them - after brining, injection of flavors (I'm having a turkey injected with jalepeno juice later), etc.

    Mashed potatoes with butternut squash, roasted asparagus wrapped in bacon, grilled brussels sprout salad with ecans, pomegranates and blue cheese, spice-Roasted carrots, cauliflower drizzled with olive oil and then roasted with coarse ground black pepper, etc.

    These are not 'simple meals' anymore but for a lot of people a time to stretch their culinary legs a bit *to get away from* the simple meals they've been cooking for the rest of the year and a display of wealth.

    Hell, I'm sure some of you are working out how to sous-vide a turkey properly.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Working out?

    I figured it out last year.

    White and dark meat are done at different temperatures. ALWAYS cook them separately.

    15 more minutes in the vacuum tumbler with phosphate brine and ice, and then my crown is getting sealed and cooked at 141F.

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    If it's cooked in a vacuum you do not need to cook the white, and dark meat separately.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sous-vide

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    "Sous-vide cooking continues until the center of the food has reached its target temperature; if it continues after this, the food will not be overcooked, and it will not cook more after it stops being heated. The time taken for the center of food to reach the target temperature depends on the initial temperature, the thickness and shape of the food, and the temperature of the bath.[5]'

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    My crown target temp is 145F. But I have to hold it there for an hour for safety purposes. I injected it, so have to treat it accordingly.

    My leg quarters have a target temp of 160-165.

    I have to cook them in separate baths. I can't hold one at 145 for an hour while cooking the other to 165.

    BTW, they aren't actually under vacuum. They're just in a bag with the air pumped out for optimal heat transfer. Ambient pressure is the same.

    I brine and tumble the meat under vacuum, but that's before cooking.

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    Gotcha. I am used to having to tell my guys not to over complicate simple processes. If you want to do the whole bird, you need to make sure the cavity is vac sealed as well. =)

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    Get a extra large bag, pull the bottom up through the center, cut the top off, and vac seal. 165F is serve safe.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    It's a 7log problem for reducing dangerous pathogens by 99.98% 165F will pasteurize in less than a second. 155 takes a minute. 145 takes about an hour.
    Same level of food safety, but with juicier meat.

    I get why Serv Safe sticks with the 165 guidelines, but if you know what you're doing, you can deviate significantly.

    If you go to a nice country club style restaurant today for a turkey dinner, I guarantee you that they aren't cooking to 165. That's practically sandwich meat.

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    Sous-vide not so much. Roasting yes. They are most likely using a Rational combi.

  • GILMORE™||

    White and dark meat are done at different temperatures. ALWAYS cook them separately

    Ugh. Much racist, so segregation.

  • ||

    Someone needs a strong prog talking to, eh? Hm?

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    Aggy gets it. =D

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    In re: wealth

    Thanksgiving is substantially cheaper that most meals of comparable size.

    Turkey at Costco was going for $.79/lb last night. That's a tenth of what a decent steak costs.

  • Agammamon||

    By wealth, I mean the wealth of leisure time to spend preparing the menu, finding ingredients, preparing the dishes. There's no getting up at the crack of dawn to milk the horses or whatever they do on farms and then try to find time to fiddle with the meal in between.

    We are all hell of a lot wealthier than the average person in 1863 - so *everything* is cheaper for us.

  • Christophe||

    http://www.seriouseats.com/rec.....iving.html

    The crispy skin is a real treat, and sous-vide means the turkey goes from being the fussiest part of the meal to the most trivial.

  • GILMORE™||

    from Instapundit =



    WAPO: Trump turning away intelligence briefers since election win.

    FLASHBACK: Obama Skips the Majority of His Intelligence Briefings.

    i think it would be perfect if Trump responded with, "I'm already very intelligent, really. The most!"

    Its not like i was ever expecting the post-election world to result in a media which was less-partisan and more-thoughtful, but i did think that maybe they'd give the pants-shitting a break until after christmas. How naive of me.

  • Jerry on the sea||

    Trump can just read about it in the newspapers.

  • MarkLastname||

    Or wikileaks

  • Agammamon||

    So, one of my SSD's seems to have died. Maybe. Maybe there's a problem with it being recognized (disappearing SSD syndrome) so I'm going to try to power cycle it.

    Thankfully I run the OS off one, my media off an old HDD - this one is just apps and games.

    And some motorcycling craziness.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6uyv_taTsE&t=0s

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    And by that, you mean porn?

  • Agammamon||

    Actually - no. Though what little porn I have is on the SSD its mainly documents, pictures, and normal movies. I've got an always on broadband internet connection and I don't travel for work anymore so there's no need to download that stuff.

  • Jimmy Free Trade Pirate||

    I love my SSD. =)

  • MarkLastname||

    Yeah who downloads porn anymore. Just save a doc of links to your favorites.

  • ||

    That sucks. I swore off mechanical drives after my first SSD, which is still going strong.

  • GILMORE™||

    I've yet to get one.

    Next year, probably, but just for the OS drive. I think currently, most people who do audio-work still (mostly) do all their recording stuff with HDD, because that's what all the software platforms are tailored for. Running SATA in RAID is more than enough bandwidth. & having loads of RAM (*and the fastest possible ram) actually has a far bigger impact on performance

  • ||

    My OS drive is the SSD. I also have 2 HDDs, a 1TB and a 2TB that I keep photos and other docs on. The SSD is my gaming drive also. Plan on buying another SSD next year, or two, to replace the dinosaur drives with. When you get an SSD for your OS drive, you'll be amazed how fast your puter boots up.

  • Rhywun||

    My new (all-in-one) PC came with an SSD/hard drive combo. The SSD is already almost full :( But that's mostly because of Steam. At some point I'll have to move that shit to the HD.

    But yeah, it's nice to have a computer that actually feels fast again - it's been a long time.

  • Ted S.||

    I got a new computer in May, replacing one that was ten years old. Everything feels fast to me now. I like to think it helps that I'm running Linux.

  • Rhywun||

    It feels to me that until SSD, hardware was not keeping up with software bloat. The last computer I used that felt snappy was probably running Windows 98.

  • ||

    Been building my own PC since 1992. Last few years, I've been spending about an avg of $1000 a year on upgrades. Last year I went over that by a couple hundred, $700 GPU and a $500 monitor(I have 3). Next year will probably exceed once again as I want a new Motherboard and CPU and maybe a new GPU again (if the 1080ti is released) and maybe another new monitor.

  • Holger da Dane||

    Next time get the largest SSD you can afford, and only partition 80% of it, leaving 20% guaranteed never used. The extra unused space will help the firmware wear leveling do a better job, and you'll give the drive a long happy life.

  • Agammamon||

    Its a 1 TB SSD and its never been more than 20% full to start with. Bought it last November.

    Two decades of screwing around with computers and this is the first drive to ever shit the bed on me. Still don't know for certain if its the drive though. Swapped the other SSD into its slot and the cables work fine. Gonna take it over to a friend's house later and plug it into his computer. That should definitely tell me its dead or not.

  • Holger da Dane||

    I think worn out SSDs tend to stay read-only, so maybe it had a different kind of failure.

  • Christophe||

    Yeah, he's definitely not running into wear-levelling failure. Defective board somewhere on it is more likely.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    All food is cooking. Now I have 2 hours to drink beer until the first guests arrive.

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  • ||

    Finished my 4 beers. Switching to Russian vodka. Wife just took the game hens out of the oven. We made a huge salad and I made a gallon of my fresh salsa. Life is good. More food and alcohol on the agenda for tomorrow.

  • DEG||

    I have just about enough stuff done to get back to drinking.

  • ||

    Stop doing stuff! Drink! I'm living in an apartment now, so not that much to do. Thinking about moving back into one of my houses though since my daughter graduated from college and getting ready to move out of it. Then I'll have plenty to do, including mowing 6 acres. I sort of miss it, but I'll probably get tired of it again before long. Putting the place up for sale anyway.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Pics?

    (of your daughter, not the house)

  • ||

    My daughter is beautiful, but you're going to have to take my word for it, perv! (;

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Beautiful, and she comes with a house?

  • ||

    Nope, sorry, but I'll sell you the house.

  • DEG||

    Homeownership... lots to do. I had less to do when I lived in an apartment, but I got tired of listening to my neighbors fight, party, and fuck.

    One guy that lived below me loved loud women. After one of his escapades, I thought about telling him that if he wants to bring home women that loud, that he has to share them with all his neighbors. I never did tell him that. I think I should have.

    Time to eat, then drink.

  • ||

    Our apartment is great and 15-20 minutes from my downtown office. It's incredibly quiet here, I never hear anything and our neighbors are all older professionals who keep to themselves for the most part, like us. Also have a 24 ft deck where I have my gas grill and a view of nothing but primeval forests, a creek, and hills. It's about as good as you can get for apartment living. Expensive, but worth it. We still want to own a home that we actually live in though, maybe it will happen.

  • DEG||

    In Balmer? Very nice.

    My old apartment was in a complex in the woods that abuts a multi-lane highway. The noise wasn't too noticeable during the summer, but very noticeable other times of year.

  • ||

    Let's put it this way, it's in Balmer City, but I can walk across the line into Baltimore County in less than 5 minutes walk. We're in the sticks. There are no major highways anywhere near here. 83 is about 3 miles away and the beltway is 3 or 4.

  • DEG||

    OK, makes sense now.

  • ||

    You don't have to answer, of course, but where did you live here? Are you still in MD?

  • DEG||

    I grew up northwest of Philly. I live in NH now. I've never lived in MD (or MA for that matter, unlike what some friends of mine from PA think).

    The handful of family trips we took were day trips into Maryland or day trips into Jersey to visit relatives.

    A former roommate of mine used to go to Baltimore quite often for the strip clubs. He grew up near York, PA.

    A friend of mine from my undergrad years lived in Laurel, MD for a while.

  • ||

    I have co-workers from Laurel and York who drive to Balmer every day, or at least sometimes. I say co-workers because they work on one of my teams with my clients. I'm an independent contractor, but most of my clients are now in Balmer.

  • juris imprudent||

    Damn we're practically neighbors; I'm up I83 across the Mason-Dixon and a few miles east.

  • ||

    Is that like Shrewsbury?

  • ||

    You aren't in Hamsterberry are you?

  • juris imprudent||

    East of there, between Stewartstown and Fawn Grove.

  • ||

    Amazing how many people don't realize that MD is south of the Mason-Dixon. There are some amazing plantations that you can tour here.

  • Ted S.||

    We just finished. Dad told me to text my sister and ask her which restaurant her turkey came from. :-)

  • ||

    I was told that we'd be eating Thanksgiving lunch because my brother in law has to leave about six or seven. My wife is currently in a kitchen just big enough for two people with her mom and sister practicing what I call cooking with chaos. At the rate they're going, we might have Thanksgiving breakfast tomorrow morning. I'm sitting on the porch drinking a Sierra Nevada and smoking a cigarette. Honestly they have surpassed my expectations so far.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    The beer and cigarette have surpassed your expectations, or the cooking?

  • ||

    So far I haven't heard any crying or screaming from the kitchen, and they only spent two and a half hours at the store this morning to pick up the five things they forgot last night. I expected far worse from my wife and her family.

  • ||

    Oh, and most importantly, my wife kept her mother from making brown water and calling it gravy.

  • ||

    Just because this article pissed me off, we're having tofurkey with truffles. Playa, eat your heart out.

  • ||

    Tofurkey? Say it isn't so.

  • ||

    Yeah, I think his kiddie diddler persona was actually less deplorable.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Yeah. At least it made sense.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    I'd rather eat my heart.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    BUT HOW DO YOU MAKE GRAVY?

    :(

  • DEG||

    Buy it in a jar from the store. Sheesh.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Now you're trying to make me cry.

  • DEG||

    Here, have some beer. It'll help.

  • ||

    They didn't teach you Perigueux sauce? Peasant.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    I was trained to make a nice Reuben before I was ever trained to make osso buco.

    Deal with it. *spits*

  • DEG||

    Odd, I think that's perfectly fine.

  • ||

    I'm sorry, you may not cook with my truffles. Now polish my monocle, it appears to be steamed up.

  • MarkLastname||

    I actually think I might eat more tofu from now on. It's a great way to get omega threes without eating fish, and I hate fish.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    As seen on Facebook:

    "Hope your enjoying your tryptophan high while celebrating the genocide of 6 million natives but meanwhile in North Dakota they're fighting for mother earth the mother for us all wake up steeple!"

    If you've had a bad year, and you're struggling to find something to be thankful about, at least you're not this guy^^^^^

  • Juvenile Bluster||

    "Wake up steeple"? Is that person asking for a personification of a church to come alive or something?

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    It's what the dumbest guy from my high school says to feel smart.

    He's 40 and almost done with school.

  • GILMORE™||

  • John Titor||

    It apparently wasn't a very well managed genocide if they invited them over to dinner.

  • ||

    Unless the pilgrims served the Indians milk and cheese.

  • Trigger Warning||

    Pigs in blankets.

  • Tagore Smith||

    I'm not so sure about that. When I was younger I had a very attractive young woman over to dinner, and the conversation turned to our mutual Scots heritage. I mentioned that I was a Campbell, and she said that some Campbells had had her family over to dinner and then slaughtered them all, Red Wedding style. Well, there are a lot of Campbells, so I kind of made light of it (a bit awkward.)

    Only later did I realize that she was talking about the Glencoe massacre. She had the facts a bit wrong- it was actually her family (the MacDonalds of Glencoe) who were hosting a small force headed by a Campbell, which got up in the wee hours and put the MacDonalds to the sword, leaving a few stragglers to escape in the snow.

    Interestingly, the whole chain of events was actually set in motion not just by any Campbells, but by my direct ancestors, the Campbells of Barcaldine, who waylaid her ancestor and held him at my ancestral home long enough to keep him from swearing fealty to the Crown by the date appointed. It's probably a good thing I didn't know that at the time as, being me, I would almost have certainly have told her the whole story in excruciating detail.

    This doesn't quite qualify as genocide, but we did pretty much have our way with the MacDonalds of Glencoe. Unfortunately my dinner with the young woman in question was not as successful, which is too bad- she was a very pretty girl.

  • Ted S.||

    I hope you said you wished you could kill more people.

  • MarkLastname||

    Because the Plymouth colonists killed 6 million people? Oh, because they're white. Racism much?

    Seriously, fuck the ND protestors. Let the oil companies bulldoze their homes. I don't give a shot. They won't defend our rights so why defend theirs. Fuck em, every man for himself.

  • MarkLastname||

    Also, it's an urban legend that tryptophan is especially high in tryptophan; people get sleepy after thanksgiving for the same reason they do after any large meal: lots of carbohydrates and alcohol.

  • ||

    it's an urban legend that tryptophan is especially high in tryptophan

    I looked it up. It's 100% tryptophan.

  • MarkLastname||

    Blue Sky Tryptophan.

  • Juvenile Bluster||

    Somebody help me. My family's talking politics and there's no beer.

  • John Titor||

    Find the dullest bureaucratic or regulatory document you can find and inject it into any conversation about politics. Whenever they try to steer the conversation towards more controversial political subjects, always try to pull it back to the boring shit. Tends to get people to drop politics quickly, they don't mind getting worked up but they hate being bored. My topic of choice is Canadian dairy industry regulations.

  • ||

    The merits of the wheat board is a personal favorite.

  • MarkLastname||

    I concur. I'd recommend steering the discussion toward municipal building restrictions and zoning laws. Or ask people what they think about the Japanese Central Bank deciding to impose negative interest on reserves. Try discussing the merits of the Taylor rule. Or just look up the latest paper on NBER and use that for fodder to induce boredom.

  • thrakkorzog||

    Unfortunately, the only real obnoxiously political person in my family also works in international law, so she deals with that stuff for a living.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    You can partially strangle yourself. That also dulls the senses.

  • ||

    This is why God invented Scotch.

  • ||

    Is football on?

  • Juvenile Bluster||

    No. My great grandmother has control of the TV and we're watching Food Network.

  • Juvenile Bluster||

    Er, my grandmother. My daughter's great grandmother. I can't brain right now.

  • ||

    Either way, I think you can take her. Come on JB, I have faith in you!

  • Rhywun||

    Chopped marathon! I like my cooking shows, except for that one. Figuring out what to do with stupid ingredients isn't engaging.

  • The Hyperbole||

    Cutthroat Kitchen is by far the worst.

  • Rhywun||

    Heh I like that one for some reason. At least they play with ingredients I've heard of. Chopped is all about finding the most ridiculous and hoity-toity ingredients that nobody would ever have around.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Worst basket ever: hot dogs in the dessert round.

    Fucking hell, the judges should have rioted.

  • MarkLastname||

    I like the one where Gordon Ramsay tries to badger restaurant owners into killing themselves ober how bad they're restaurants are.

  • ||

    The Redskins were jobbed with the scheduling.

  • Ted S.||

    Dad and I watched local news.

  • John Titor||

    Robby is extremely late with the P.M. Links today...

    No, Thanksgiving is not an excuse. KMW should be chaining him to his desk like a proper libertarian would.

  • Juvenile Bluster||

    Only the orphans working Reason's servers are chained to their workstations right now.

  • John Titor||

    Fucking cosmos.

  • Ted S.||

    The squirrels are still around.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Robby is of the Fae Realm, and any iron on his skin is like burning coals. Reason can't afford titanium chains yet, so he's off the hook.

  • John Titor||

    Is it possible to hire her instead?

  • DEG||

    I hope so.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    No new hires, all money is spent on Dalmia and Chapman reprints.

    Hmm...when's the new donation drive?

  • John Titor||

    all money is spent on Dalmia and Chapman reprints.

    I don't think I belong here.

  • ||

    Isn't it racist to eat turkey? It is said and is science.

  • Jerryskids||

    You haughty elites and your Thanksgiving holiday feasting. I spent the day crawling around under a house installing a heating and air system and I'm damn thankful for having the work. Finished off the day with a nice tall glass of cold water and a Vicodin. That's good enough eating right there for anybody.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    And.... What's for dessert?

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Can of Schlitz.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Self-abuse.

  • DEG||

    Drinking time. 750 ml bottle of barrel aged Narwhal to start.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I love Russian Imperial Stouts!

  • ||

    I love Russian Vodka.

  • DEG||

    Don't forget Russian women.

  • ||

    My wife said I can't have any of those.

  • DEG||

    I hope she makes up for that somehow.

  • ||

    Just the cooking makes up for it. And her tolerance of my drinking when I feel like it, and...

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    95, from my neck of the woods, and I've never heard of it????

    Will research shortly. Need to swim before it cools down.

  • DEG||

    It is delicious.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I'm thankful that everyone is gone by 6.

  • DEG||

  • AlmightyJB||

    That's a funny movie.

  • Trigger Warning||

    I read some comments on an article at Ars Technica. That was a bad idea; I did not need such a harsh reminder that retards are Legion.

  • Trigger Warning||

  • Rhywun||

    Holy crap that is a steaming pile of tedium masquerading as "intelligent" commentary. I didn't make it to the comments.

  • Trigger Warning||

    The article itself was poorly written, though with an unobjectionable premise ("hey leftards, you helped evolve modern truthiness"), but the Ars Commentariat reacted as if President Rush Hitler had eaten live babies while shitting on a pile of LGBT corpses. I could feel the flecked spittle through my screen.

  • MarkLastname||

    So lefties are finally rediscovering the wonders of objective truths? Don't worry, the next time a 'hate crime' or sexual assault allegation (against someone who isn't a dem politician) gets discredited they'll rediscover their love of the 'fake but accurate' line if reasoning.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I forgot to invite a native to Thanksgiving dinner.

    http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/.....-l1600.jpg

  • DEG||

    Hello nurse!

  • juris imprudent||

    Completely culturally inappropriate - she must doff that costume this instant!

  • ||

    Heh

  • Trigger Hippie||

    Happy Thanksgiving, you band of miscreants! Despite the fact you lot are little more than sportos, motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads - I adore you all. I think you're righteous dudes. Even our leftist trolls and Canadians. Please feel free to enjoy my favorite music video/tv show clip montage clip on the interwebz. :)

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3UfxyIdgs

  • Trigger Hippie||

    One too many references to clips in that post...fuck off!

  • ||

    Merry Thanksgiving, you rat bagging CIS shitlord!

  • DEG||

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    I adore you all. I think you're righteous dudes. Even our leftist trolls and Canadians

    You left out the Aussies.

  • ||

    There are no Aussie libertarians. They don't even know what that means.

  • DEG||

    They have a libertarian senator. Can't remember his name.

    IFH is Aussie and libertarian. IFH even claims to be a woman.

  • John Titor||

    Furries don't count as women.

  • ||

    I was just joking. In Brazil, they have a libertarian party, and it's an American style libertarian party with nearly 1 million members. Apparently, we're trending.

  • DEG||

    Trending everywhere except America.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Europe is certainly not going through a Libertarian moment.

  • ||

    Yeah, but we have to give then credit for their general state of retardation.

  • ||

    I meant the Eurotards. Seriously, the Brazilian libertarians are hardcore big L libertarians.

  • DEG||

    Except maybe in a few places in the former Communist bloc. Shame, because I think all of Europe needs a libertarian moment.

  • John Titor||

    Canadian Libertarian Party vote increased 500% this election, now we've got 0.2% of the popular vote!

  • DEG||

    Progress!

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Happy Thanksgiving, France

    One person has been found dead after an armed man entered a retirement home for former missionaries near Montpellier, according to French media reports.

    Police responded to the incident late on Thursday evening in Montferrier-sur-Lez in the south of the country.

    More than 60 people who formerly worked in religious missions in Africa live at the home.

    There is so far no indication that this is a terrorist incident, according to sources quoted by Reuters new agency.

    If that was a robbery attempt, I'd love to know the reasoning behind it.
    "Hey, I bet old people who worked as missionaries and now live in a group home have tons of money! They never had a chance to spend any, I'll make it big this time!"

  • John Titor||

    If that was a robbery attempt, I'd love to know the reasoning behind it.

    Bear Odinson's Backpack Across Europe?

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Yeah, but this is for retired monks. All the sacral objects and tithings and shit wouldn't be kept there. I'd like to believe Bear Odinson would know where the good loot is.

    Maybe it's some kind of inbred hick cousin, Cletus Odinson, and he got confused?

  • ||

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYPAdB-KzbM

    What do you Canucks (and Yanks since it's an American clip) think of this. I think he's more on the ball.

    Trudeau is that stupid.

  • John Titor||

    All I say is, read Trudeau's book. It gives more insight into his shitty, spoiled personality then you'll ever need.

  • DEG||

    "Most unqualified leader that has ever been elected in the history of the industrial world"?

    Trudeau has got serious competition with Barak Obama.

  • John Titor||

    Obama at least has theoretical experience with law, Trudeau was a drama teacher that has only gotten anywhere politically because of his daddy.

  • DEG||

  • ||

    BUT HE WAS AT KATIMAVIK!

    Sooo qualified.

  • ||

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Every American should be forced to watch that. Because all that shit came from you people! We need a fucking wall up here.

  • DEG||

    Sometimes Canadian border guards act like there is a wall. Well, except for pretty French Canadian border guards.

  • MarkLastname||

    Whose breath acts as a wall.

  • DEG||

    No, her breath didn't. I didn't respond to her flirting because I was worried she would fuck up my vacation. Instead, I kept my responses brief and strictly business. Sometimes, I look back on that trip and think I made a mistake.

  • John Titor||

    Anyway, after watching the video:

    He's more or less right that Canada has had a massive problem with its sense of identity ever since we distanced ourselves from the British Empire. The Canadian nationalism of the 19th century was messy, ranging from the non-separatist French nationalism, English imperialism and all the little provincial quirks, but we still had a central core idea of a frontier people who carved a harsh wilderness into a civilization. We contextualized ourselves as subjects of a greater empire, and drew our identity from both that and our origin nations' culture.

    Now, with the deliberate rejection of our traditional heritage, we have nothing to form an identity except a comparison to the United States. The values that we preached never materialized, but we preach them anyway ('good government' despite decades of massively corrupt Premiers for example). What's the central criticism of the United States? They're racist, sexist, homophobic, intolerant. Therefore the only source of identity for some is tolerance as a sole virtue.

    Frankly as a whole this nation is profoundly insecure about its history, culture and values. And it shows.

  • ||

    JT, Canada has NOTHING to insult Americans about.

    Americana has a rich and depthless to it Canada could never hope to ever remotely approach.

    Yeh, we have stuff but nothing like we see in the USA. The Americans shook and influenced Western civilization; it has a sense of itself and a clear identity.

    Us? Like you said, stuck between the British empire and American might, our 'nationalists' always took the easy way out and never really developed the things that make a nation a true nation.

    All yap and no bite we are.

  • Ted S.||

    I like to joke that Canada's #1 national sport is ice hockey, and Canada's #2 national sport is America bashing.

  • Tagore Smith||

    As a citizen of both The United States/Empire of Amerikkka and The Unions of Soviet Canuckistan, I concur. Amerikkkans tend to have a vague but favorable impression of the Canuckistanis, mainly because they know very little about them. Canadians on the other hand... in my experience an awful lot seethe with a hatred of Americans that must, at least in part, stem from resentment at being taken so lightly.

    Canada's relationship with the States resembles nothing so much as an early Taylor Swift song, with Canada looking longingly from the bleachers as America conducts its "special relationship" with the UK. Yet, to add insult to injury, Swift is American and Canada is left crying itself to sleep to the strains of Avril Lavigne, April Wine, and that guy with brain cancer that no one outside of Canada has ever heard of.

  • John Titor||

    And I remind everyone that we'll get to hear Trudeau lecture us on what being Canadian really means for the entirety of next year.

    Yeah.

    If we don't have a revolution by July I'll be disappointed.

  • DEG||

    Revolution in Canada? I know they've happened, but it seems unreal to think of another happening.

  • John Titor||

    Real talk, if Hillier had decided to stage a coup and crown himself King of Canada I'm pretty sure 90% of the armed forces would have supported him. That's one of the other dysfunctions in the Canadian hierarchy, the government treats the armed forces like shit often and there is a massive (deserved) hatred of Ottawa.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Hmmm....

    "John Titor has created a 'Force PM Zoolander to Abdicate' faction"?

  • John Titor||

    And you know he'd click "I will not be blackmailed!"*

    *John Titor does not support overthrowing the Canadian government. At present time. Unless Hillier pulls a Caesar. Then maybe.

  • DEG||

    Preets are everywhere.

  • ||

    Fuck the Iliberal Party of Canada.

    #notmyPM!

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    And you know he'd click "I will not be blackmailed!"*

    I'd love to see the levy he'd raise. Bunch of college snowflakes, some jihadis grateful for another opportunity to kill whitey, and...?

  • John Titor||

    His cultural retinue is SJWs, and unfortunately they don't do well against cataphracts or longbowmen.

    And that martial skill of 2 and intrigue of 3 isn't going to help either.

  • thrakkorzog||

    Should have set his goal to build a war chest to hire mercs to squash the inevitable revolt. Or better yet, put the faction leader on the council, then send them off to improve relations with Smallpoxistan.

  • ||

    Last time I crossed the border, border cunt asked me if I have any guns back home. Back fucking home. I refused to answer that. Ok, I didn't have my passport with me, which caused border cunt to be disgruntled and caused me to laugh at her. So I went to secondary inspection where border dude waved me right on. If not for my wife being with me and us being on vacation, I would have told border cunt to go fuck herself with a chainsaw.

  • DEG||

    On a recent trip to visit relatives, I found out one of my relatives has the first three seasons of "Vikings" on DVD. We watched all three seasons in one week. I liked it, even though they played fast and loose with history in a few places.

  • John Titor||

    The Last Kingdom is also pretty good from an English perspective of the period, even if it does have the same problem with messing with history here and there.

    Vikings can kind of get a pass for some of its inaccuracies because Lothbrok is basically mythical, there's no consistent historical documentation of his life. But bullshit like the Norse not knowing about the British Isles in the 700s is just stupid.

  • DEG||

    Last Kingdom, thanks! Noted.

  • Rhywun||

    Disgruntled African convert to Christianity...?

  • ||

    Too lazy to link to it from my phone. Apparently Trump's commerce secretary will be Wilbur Ross, which one news site described as "the king of bankruptcy". That seems so... fitting.

  • ||

    Trumputin has been declared the winner in MI by more than 10k votes. 306 electoral votes. The snowflakes need to put on their big girl panties and get over it.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    But but but she is up by two million in the popular!

    Playa pointed out, yeah, it's because she's a dumbshit who paid for an advertising push in California, New York and Illinois.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Don't forget the pants suit flash mob!

  • DEG||

    She paid for advertising in New England too. Only paying for advertising in NH made any sense.

  • MarkLastname||

    In New Hampshire definitely and maybe Maine. But Massachusetts? Connecticut? I don't think so.

    She also tried to swing Arizona. Stupid stupid stupid.

  • Rhywun||

    Yeah, Obama never wasted a dime on NY. But the last few weeks we got bombed with Clinton ads and I was like wut.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Payment back to networks backing her up?

  • Sevo||

    "Playa pointed out, yeah, it's because she's a dumbshit who paid for an advertising push in California, New York and Illinois."

    After she cut the public out of her meetings in Nor Cal, she had to toss 'em a bone.

  • Sevo||

    BTW, I still never saw a Hillary bumper sticker, except one "Hillary for Prison".

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    If you think back to college football games on ESPN, particularly the ones where my internet was broken, there were Hillary commercials every single commercial break. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And this is for the Pac 12. Dumb dumb dumb.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    From India, markets find the way.
    Or if you prefer, reverse-419.

    The Indian government's surprise decision to ban 500 and 1,000 rupee notes in a crackdown on corruption took 86% of money out of circulation in the largely cash economy. But some enterprising Indians are seeing opportunity amid the cash crisis, reports the BBC's Vikas Pandey.
    ...
    Many are afraid to deposit all their money into the banks, because the government has said that unaccounted for money will attract a 200% tax penalty and an investigation into the source of income.

    But people like Mr Kumar are ready to help them.

    "The government has said no questions will be asked if my account balance is less than 250,000 rupees (£2,947; $3,664). I can deposit your 'black money' into my account. I will charge 10% and give you back the remaining amount after a few weeks," he tells me earnestly.
  • Brochettaward||

    We are over 350 comments in here, and not one person has been called a cunt. Reason is getting soft.

  • Ted S.||

    OK, Brochettaward, you're a cunt. Are you happy now?

  • AlmightyJB||

    Shut up cunt. Lol

  • ||

    Fuck you, cunt!

  • MarkLastname||

    I feel 'twat' is slightly more tasteful. You twat.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    In my lexicon cunt is a notch up from twat, which is a ratchet-turn away from wench, and strumpet resists classification.

  • MarkLastname||

    Strumpet, like harlot and hussy, are perfectly classy words, in my opinion. As is slag, if only because it's British and therefore superior to the American vernacular.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Whore - obvious. Jezebel - people think you're calling them a leftie. Tart, tramp, these days you'll get blank looks and questions about hobos and pastries.*

    Trollop is delightful, but has a certain airy-fairy salaciousness that makes people think you didn't mean it.

    *Read moar books, world.

  • DEG||

    I was going to reply with something about "Sheila" being a euphemism for "prostitute", but I can't find any reference for that. I'm not sure where I heard it.

  • ||

    "Sheila" is Australian slang for a girl or a young woman.

    I have never heard of anywhere where it's a euphemism for "prostitute".

  • AlmightyJB||

    I've always thought the Wankel engine was a cool concept.

    http://www.foxnews.com/auto/20.....-2019.html

  • DEG||

    Agreed.

  • Sevo||

    Too much surface area/volume. And corners where the flame front won't go.

  • DEG||

    I finished the bottle of Narwhal. Should I have more beer?

  • ||

    No, drink hard liquor, seriously. Vodka or gin,and buy the good stuff, not the fingernail polish remover.

  • DEG||

    I have some vodka in the house. I use it for sterilizing beer bottle caps when I brew.

    For drinking, I have Kahlua, Bailey's, rum, whiskey, cognac, and calvados in the house. Wine. Unfortunately no cider and no mead. Lots of beer.

    I feel like more beer.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I got trashed last night so sober today. Most I may do is float a little rumchata in some hot chocolate.

  • ||

    Got trashed last night also, bro, so I'm going to do it again tonight.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Good for you man:)

  • DEG||

    Good plan.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    Fucking hero.

  • DEG||

    Fucking hero.

    Thanks to threading, and the beer I've had, I have no idea whom you replied to.

  • CZmacure||

    Lagunitas Sucks beer, whiskey and tequila after I finish this ... cheap italian table wine, lol.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    I also like headaches.

  • DEG||

    You are strange.

  • ||

    Tony Blair!

    Now I ain't saying it's a woodchipper, but you ain't messin with no....

  • DEG||

    I think Brexit will be good, long-term, for both the EU and Britain.

  • ||

    It's already good for the EU. The EU is shit.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Why it's called a turkey.

    http://blog.dictionary.com/turkey/

  • AlmightyJB||

    The answer is always either Hitler or Slavery.

    http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2.....y-orig.cnn

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Can't watch the video, but did the professor use the chance to drop a Hamilton reference and show he's with it?

  • AlmightyJB||

    Just Madison and Jefferson. You SF'ed the link.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    God dammit.

    It was to wiki entry for Federalist 68, which is credited to Hamilton.

  • ||

    Comment from the Internet: "Donald Trump has already put millions of people to work mining salt mountain and the various salt mines around the Internet."

  • AlmightyJB||

    Is that a reference to salty ham tears?

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

  • Tagore Smith||

    It's the current slang among the teens today. I only know this because I have an age-inappropriate fascination with highly competitive video games, so I wind up playing with a lot of very salty teenagers, who use the term incessantly, kappa.

    One thing I think is going to be funny is watching the kids who are like 12-16 right now come of political age- they are very different, it seems to me, from the millenials that immediately precede them. They're the first generation to have spent their entire youths trolling and being trolled, and we may see peak troll come right after peak weepy. Of course I'm talking about a certain selected group of mainly young men, but... there are many millions of them, and they tend to find tears delicious.

  • DEG||

    I will have more beer. I am starting Samichlaus season early.

  • AlmightyJB||

    You have good taste in beer

  • DEG||

    Danke schön

  • DEG||

    448 comments. I wonder if we can hit 1000.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    The postprandial booze will be flowing about now. That should help.

  • DEG||

    It's after midnight, East Coast time. I am skeptical.

  • The Fusionist||

    I got through Thanksgiving dinner Without Mentioning the War, I mean election. Everyone had not-voted for Trump, but the reasons were a bit different. Most of them thought it's horrible how such a fascist could take over this great democracy, and if only Bernie had been the candidate, etc. Two of us thought that the only thing worse than a Trump victory was a Hillary victory. So we overlooked that issue and the only tension was from family bickering and the two separated people being awkwardly civil to each other.

    But at least I was able to drop all pretense of dieting and dig a few more shovelfuls of my grave with my teeth.

    Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

  • The Fusionist||

    So it's time to think of the Christmas season.

    Hymn to St. Nicholas

    A somewhat more secular seasonal tune

    Hmmm, I wonder which will appeal to the H&R crowd?

  • DEG||

    There are better versions of the first song out on youtube. Besides, I am drinking Samichlaus in honor of Saint Nikolas.

    I will take the original version of the second song.

  • The Fusionist||

    I was going to post this, but there weren't any subtitles.

  • DEG||

    It doesn't need subtitles.

  • DEG||

  • The Fusionist||

  • __Warren__||

    I'm so fucking stuffed. Rolls, salad, butternut squash soup (one of the best soups I've ever had), ham and turkey, yams, mashed, green beans, pecan pie, and a lot of wine.

    My youngest works at an old folks apartment complex that has a restaurant quality kitchen and staff and they put on big feeds for the major holidays. And since she's an employee the rest of us family members got invited to eat there for free!

    One of the residents we were eating with had her own bottle of wine and then somehow, when I wasn't looking, another bottle showed up! Must have been Turkey Claus.

    Pros of the night:

    Free!

    No clean up!

    Could have as much as I liked because they cook much more food then they think they'll need because the residents like having leftovers over the next few days.

    No Trump/Hillary talk!

    Cons:

    No leftovers for me!

    Had to drive home, it's only a few blocks but I wasn't at my best.

    Missed the football game I really wanted to see.

  • The Fusionist||

    "No Trump/Hillary talk!"

    Yeah, but the staff had to separate a couple people who were arguing over Hayes v. Tilden.

  • __Warren__||

    "Let me count all the ways it should be Hayes!"

  • __Warren__||

    Steelers score and pick up an unsportsman like penalty for the celebration. Like always the penalty will be assessed on the kick-off, but why not give the other team a choice? Back up the conversion attempt 15 yards OR back up the kick-off?

    I think a lot of coaches would love to back up the XP try more than the KO.

  • DEG||

    I finished my 2011 vintage Samichlaus. Should I continue?

  • The Fusionist||

    Tell someone to hold your beer for you, then light one of your farts with a match until you have an awesome jet of flame shooting out of your butt.

    (DISCLAIMER: Not responsible for injuries, death, etc., resulting from taking this advice)

  • The Fusionist||

    If I can persuade to make a will in favor of the Reason Foundation before trying this, it will be like I made a personal donation.

  • DEG||

    Why would I do that? I'd much rather drink beer instead of do stupid shit.

  • The Fusionist||

    I was just trying to get a tax write-off for an indirect contribution to *Reason.*

  • The Fusionist||

    I think the phrase "tell someone to hold your beer for you" was kind of an indication that I was making a tasteless joke as opposed to actual advice.

  • The Fusionist||

    also the disclaimer.

  • DEG||

    Alcohol has fucked up my thought processes.

  • The Fusionist||

    But it occurs to me that someone (not you of course) might actually take such advice, so maybe I should avoid those sorts of comments.

  • The Fusionist||

    Imagine the precedent-setting lawsuit against me and the Reason Foundation.

  • DEG||

    I understand.

    A friend of mine offed himself.

    I also think doctors should be allowed to assist people that want to off themselves. I realize this can be abused, but if you own yourself, you should be able to make an agreement with a doctor to assist you in offing yourself.

    Now, having said all that, offing yourself is not necessarily a good or wise thing. Furthermore, in the legal environment we live in, giving advise related to such things is dangerous.

  • The Fusionist||

    Yes, I'm very sorry, a tasteless joke taken a bit too far. Not meant seriously. And sorry about your friend.

  • DEG||

    Thank you. I didn't take the joke the wrong way. I get what you were doing, but some people might not.

  • The Fusionist||

    "Well, Mr. Fusionist, it seems the jury has delivered its punch line...it's called Seize My Assets, Please!"

  • DEG||

    Many moons ago, I was at a friend's place in a Philly suburb for a party.

    A few folks set off fireworks. The folks had gone down to Virginia or North Carolina for the fireworks.

    My friend commented, "Why don't you put up a huge sign that says, 'COPS PLEASE BUST US!'?"

  • Tagore Smith||

    Ooh-la-la, someone's gonna get laid in college.

  • The Fusionist||

    Have a happy and safe Thanksgiving, everyone, and don't take advice, serious or non-serious, from people on the Internet joking about injuring yourself.

    Unless of course you're a trained stunt-person and getting paid.

  • DEG||

    Happy Thanksgiving!

  • AlmightyJB||

    "Should I continue?"

    Is that a question?

  • DEG||

    You're right. My liver hasn't had enough punishment.

  • AlmightyJB||

    That looks quite delicious. That 15% ought to do it:)

  • DEG||

    I haven't had anything less than less than 10% tonight, so far.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I like how you roll.

  • DEG||

    This is a special occasion. Thanksgiving. I've gotten as much done as I can today. So, time to have a little fun.

  • ||

    Only 40% myself since 4pm. Wifey says I'm drunk. I say I'm not, yet. But I'm working on it.

  • DEG||

    Not bad.

  • DEG||

    So far, it's a good beer.

  • AlmightyJB||

  • ||

    You know, I actually started to think the other day maybe (given all the lies from the media) Hillary didn't win the PV.

    I know it's Infowars but still...he does bring up some interesting bits:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpjNyoPWYZo

  • AlmightyJB||

    I had heard that about the illegals.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Florida Woman. Just following Florida Man's orders.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38080181

  • DEG||

    Bay County Sheriff's Office told the BBC the female victim had turned up with a male friend, whom she had just met in a bar, at the accused's home at around 01:00 local time on Monday.

    There are better places for drunken hook-ups, like the alley next to the bar.

  • __Warren__||

    DANCE!

  • __Warren__||

    Mike Tirico adds nothing to a broadcast.

  • DEG||

  • ||

    Hmm, she doesn't look German. Oktoberfest rulez: Drank until you can't drank more. Then, drink more.

  • DEG||

    She's American.

    I've only been to Oktoberfest once. I should have gone earlier in my life. I will go again.

    Don't try to keep up with the Bavarians. Don't be stupid.

    Despite trying to avoid Americans, one night the group I partied with was mostly American.

    Oktoberfest is great

  • ||

    Dude, there is no amount of beer I cannot drink. I'll drink the Bavarians right under the fucking table. My ancestry is German/Welsh/English. Also drink with all my American friends and the Brazilians.

  • DEG||

    German/English/Welsh/Irish here. Possible a little "other", but based on geneological research to date, that's correct.

    I drank a lot my first and only night at Oktoberfest, but I did not try to keep up with Bavarians.

    My second day at Oktoberfest I cut things short because I had to meet someone for dinner and had to be up very, very early for a flight.

  • ||

    I can't wait to drink with the Germans. My wife is going over there in a few days, but I'm not going, too much work. But next year I'm going to show them how to drink. (;

  • DEG||

    Oktoberfest or something else?

    I'd like the next time I'm in Germany to be for the world's largest wine festival. Reality being what it is, it is possible the next time I am in Germany will be for something else.

    Where is your wife going?

  • ||

    Berlin. But when I go, we're going everywhere. My daughter-in-law is going to have a munckin and I don't want to be involved, but the wife is all into it of course. But next fall, hell yeah, I'm in. Fucking Oktoberest!

  • DEG||

    I want to visit Konzerthaus.

  • DEG||

    Oh, Oktoberfest was not my first trip to Germany. My first trip to Germany was timed around seeing an Irish band that I like. It took a few trips to Germany to finally experience Oktoberfest.

  • Sevo||

    As close as I get to a spiritual question:
    Pumpkin or apple pie?

  • DEG||

    Both.

    It's like the "Ginger or Mary Anne?" question.

    The only correct answer is both. Every other answer is wrong.

  • MarkLastname||

    Obviously. And if possible, one should request 'both, a la mode.'

    That Sevo even dared to ask this question is proof that he has no soul. He is most likely a sophisticated spambot. What are you trying to sell us today, "Sevo?" How much money a week can we make selling domain names or whatever from home? Thought you could fool us, but you outed yourself.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Pumpkin a la mode sure, but a slice of cheddar on the apple.

  • thrakkorzog||

    That's why I made a pumpkin pecan pie. Best of both worlds.

  • DEG||

    Damn. I like it.

  • Cdr Lytton||

  • DEG||

    I will not read this story.

  • DEG||

  • Crusty Juggler||

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    He got Kanye to cancel an entire tour. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT????

  • JeremyR||

    Well, for once they actually hired a competent actor for a Star Trek show.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Not to worry.

    the cast also will feature an openly gay actor as one of the male leads, a female admiral, a male Klingon captain, a male admiral, a male adviser and a British male doctor.

  • You ARE a Prog (MJG)||

    I just watched a few clips of Suicide Squad on Youtube.

    OH MY GAAAAWWWWDDDD. WHAT AN EMBARRASSMENT.

    How did something like that happen?

  • CZmacure||

    It's kinda sad how no one on this forum stays up later than me.

  • DEG||

    Agile Cyborg sometimes makes an appearance at this hour.

  • Tagore Smith||

    I'm still up, though I have mostly been posting my wit and wisdom as replies to earlier comments. One thing about HnR is that it's kind of hard to tell when people are still active upstream. I kind of like the story about my family having massacred a potential girlfriend's family.

    I'm still up partially because a lot of odd things have happened to me business-wise lately, and I've found myself briefly without a lot of constraints- I tend toward the nocturnal when nothing pushes me toward the diurnal. Actually, I'm so annoyed with it all that I've decided that maybe I should just get a job with growth potential, even if it means I don't make quite as much as I did at peak monocle. The thing the orphans never really appreciate is that business has its ups and downs, and even fashioning drinking vessels from the skulls of deflowered virgins is sometimes not enough to allay the stress of running a business.

    Toward that end, because I had an interview the other day with a startup I actually really like, and because I was posting to HnR I decided to find out how much of the insane stuff I've posted to the interwebs over the years shows up when you search for me on Google. It turns out that the first few pages are pretty anodyne. About the worst thing in them is a rather cutting comment on the order in which you should add things when tossing pasta. Also a bit where I express sympathy for fat people, but kind of go off on them for wanting to regulate food.

  • Tagore Smith||

    One thing I did find amusing, because of recent stories here, is a comment I left here more than 10 years ago, about my closest friend having grown up on a commune in Vermont. His father was quoted in the recent post on Vermont communes. I knew (or know- he's a bit elderly, but still vigorously kicking) Robert pretty well too- my mother lived with him on his Organic farm for about a year and a half when I was 12-14. This experience was part of what led me to have qualms about Organic agriculture in general, bringing us full circle.

  • Tagore Smith||

    Also, last. I like tautologies..

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online