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(UPDATED) Trump Supporter Sucker-Punches Protester, Police Respond by Handcuffing Protester

Multiple videos depict violent incident at last night's Trump rally.

Multiple video clips have emerged showing an anti-Donald Trump protester, part of a group being ejected from last night's Trump rally in Fayetteville, NC, being sucker-punched by a Trump supporter.

Though the incident took place mere feet away from the same law enforcement officials escorting protester Rakeem Jones out of the venue, the officers in question ignored the perpetrator and instead immediately grabbed a stunned Jones, threw him to the ground, and placed him in handcuffs. 

Jones told the Washington Post that he and three companions, "a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man" went to the rally as a "social experiment." One of the people in the group, Ronnie C. Rouse, said that as soon as Trump's speech began, someone in the crowd "singled them out" and moments later a group of eight officers wearing "Sheriff's Office" uniforms arrived to remove them from the premises. 

With officers both in front and behind him, Jones walked up the stairs, pausing briefly to throw his hands up in mocking defiance of the booing crowd. The video clips show a man wearing a ponytail under a cowboy hat walking toward the aisle, waiting until Jones is within arm's reach, then decking him with a right cross. Seconds later, the officers yanked Jones up the stairs and forcibly detained him. 

“The police jumped on me like I was the one swinging,” Jones said to the Post. He added, "It’s like this dude really hit me and they let him get away with it. I was basically in police custody and got hit.”

The identity of the man who threw the Moment before a suckerpunch.Youtubepunch is unknown at this time, but one video shows several officers walking right past him, not even looking in his direction, after he threw the punch. 

In a strange twist, the area's local law enforcement agencies are all refusing to take responsibility for what happened. The Post reports:

Fayetteville is in Cumberland County, N.C., but an official from the Cumberland County Sheriff’s Office, reached by The Washington Post early Wednesday, said officers from that jurisdiction were not the ones who detained the man. The Fayetteville Police Department also told The Post they did not detain anyone at the rally, held at the city’s Crown Coliseum.

As previously noted here at Reason, violence and threats of violence have become an increasingly common feature of Trump rallies, and disrupting a Trump event can technically be prosecuted as a federal crime

The Republican frontrunner has also mused publicly that he'd like to punch a protester in the face, insinuated that people who disrupt his events might deserve to get "roughed-up," and encouraged his supporters to forcibly remove anti-Trump demonstrators, telling one crowd he'd "defend you in court."

UPDATE: WRAL.com reports that the suckerpuncher has been identified as 78-year-old John McGraw. He has been charged with disorderly conduct as well as assault and battery. 

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    YEAH GET THOSE HIPPIES

  • JW||

    GET A HAIRCUT

  • pronomian||

    Get those libertarians off our lawn!!!!

  • mr burns||

    Trump desperatetly needs a decent haircut, as far as I can discern he has never had one in his entire life .

  • Juvenile Bluster||

    Plus there was that incident with one of his goons assaulting a Breitbart reporter. Breitbart, of course, is defending Trump there.

    (remember when that site was good, when Andrew Breitbart was still alive? Yeah.)

  • Just say Nikki||

    Look, Lewandowski just had to explain that he didn't recognize the reporter and assumed she was from the MSM. What more do you want?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Did the reporter or boyfriend report the assault to the police?

  • Just say Nikki||

    Not sure why her boyfriend would report anything. I don't think she has, and the fact that her employer and colleagues are hanging her out to dry probably has something to do with it.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    They claimed she was assaulted, yet it was not egregious enough to go to the police or the hospital, it was just egregious enough to go to Twitter to whine about it. I don't understand why it has to be included in the conversation about someone who was assaulted on video, or the variety of other physical altercations that take place during a Trump rally.

  • Marty Comanche||

    Does your boyfriend allow you to speak to menfolk yourself? How scandalous would that be?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    He was a witness to her assault, or so I thought.

  • Just say Nikki||

    He was not. She called him and told him about it, and he tweeted about it, but he was not present.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Okay then, I retract the boyfriend statement. Thank you.

    I think saying whatever happened to her is an assault adds to the sensationalist nature of Trump coverage, which it does not require. There are already plenty of horrible actions to report on.

  • Juice||

    remember when that site was good

    Um...no?

  • Cytotoxic||

    Same.

  • SusanM||

    OT: Where does this fall on the Irony Meter? (tw: Salon)

    http://www.salon.com/2016/03/0.....get_shoot/

    An outspoken gun activist is expected to survive after being shot through the abdomen by her 4-year-old son while driving on a Florida highway Tuesday afternoon.

    Jamie Gilt, 31, of Jacksonville, Florida, was spotted by police “behaving frantically” in a pulled over four-door pickup truck, according to media reports. When an officer asked her what happened, Gilt said her son had accidentally shot her through the torso from the backseat.
  • SusanM||

    IOW, letting a toddler play with a loaded weapon in a car is okeydoke? ;)

  • RBS||

    Jones told the Washington Post that he and three companions, "a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man" went to the rally as a "social experiment."

    I know I'm supposed to be outraged by all the Trump madness but this seems like the exact result these people were looking for, except for the dickhead cops.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Because everyone knows "social experiments" are meant to end in physical violence.

  • Idle Hands||

    you know who else ran a social experiment that ended in violence?

  • GILMORE™||

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Harry J. Anslinger?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Zeb||

    What the fuck? That's a thing??

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    What the fuck? That's a thing??

    Sadly, yes.

  • RBS||

    I'm going to have to watch these when I get home.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It also occurs to me that this Trump incident might be the beginning of a new trend where young Progressives make their own version of this meme: "Pranks in the Holler" where they obnoxiously provoke 'rednecks' until one of them lands a right cross.

  • Zeb||

    I doubt they'd have any idea where to find a holler.

  • Ted S.||

    Warty?

  • RBS||

    I forgot to include an "insert humorless Nikki comment here."

  • This Machine||

    That's okay, it's pretty much a given, anyway.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Broads, right?

  • This Machine||

    Dames, man.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Women - Can't live with them, can't live with them.

  • Just say Nikki||

    "Why doesn't she think personal violence is funny like I do?"

  • ||

    It is funny. Ask Moe Howard at your next seance.

  • JW||

    Does he need to tell you again? HUH?

  • ||

    Right, because your perception of her as humorless totally invalidates her comments. Next: desire for on-time trains inherently facistic because of Mussolini.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Wow, this board has gotten tense recently. I blame Trump.

  • R C Dean||

    Because everyone knows "social experiments" are meant to end in physical violence.

    Some of them are, you know. Especially those run by provocateurs.

  • RBS||

    Whatever RC. All pregnant women have a moral obligation to terminate their pregnancies (before sentience, of course) and an overdose is a great way to die.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Someone really loves pain and suffering.

  • PapayaSF||

    Why should you care, Nikki? After all, that guy never punched you. That's your standard for immigration, correct? You said a while ago that you don't object to Muslim immigration because they never did anything to you personally. Neither did this guy.

  • Zeb||

    What? The vast majority of Muslims have not done anything bad to anyone.

  • PapayaSF||

    The vast majority of Communists and Nazis didn't do anything bad to anyone, either.

  • ||

    Wow, RBS, you really are a mendacious shit-stain.

  • Zeb||

    Sure. But that doesn't justify the use of violence against someone simply for being obnoxious.

  • Mickey Rat||

    That is a risk if you do your trolling live and in person.

  • JW||

    That is a risk if you do your trolling live and in person.

    It is. Sadly, too many people are little more than witless goons and have no problem initiating violence against you for merely voicing your opinion.

    Let's note here that none of the protesters initiated that violence.

  • Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe||

    That's generally my preferred outcome, yes. Especially when the social experimenters are on the business end of the violence.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The bartenders looks at them and asks, "Why the long face? Is it because you were assaulted while in police custody - without the ability to defend yourself - and no law enforcement professionals have the courage to admit involvement?"

  • JW||

    Stop me if you've heard this one...."3 cops walk into an event...."

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    It is hard to be outraged when a thug is proven to be a thug, you know?

  • RBS||

    Probably the least shocking of all is that this took place in Fayetteville, NC.

  • RBS||

    Probably the least shocking of all is that this took place in Fayetteville, NC.

  • Riven||

    Damn, son. I get it--it's not shocking! You don't have to repeat yourself!

  • Homple||

    Known to 1960s Fort Bragg trainees as "Fatalville".

  • This Machine||

    Ha, I remember one crusty old team guy telling me once, "Yeah, no one remembers what that place was called in the original Somali, today we just say 'Fayette-nam.'" Another told me, on his return from a particularly nasty place in Africa, that where he had just deployed was "the second worst place on planet Earth." When I asked him what the worst place was, he said, "Fort Bragg."

  • 68Whiskey||

    Or "Fayettenam"

  • This Machine||

    Amen, 68W.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Which thug was proven to be a thug? The one who was assaulted and then arrested despite committing no crime? Or do you assume anyone with a ponytail and black leather vest is a thug?

  • ||

    If you want to sink Trump, just present these facts about the Trump/Clinton "connections' , even Jeb was suspicious.
    Google; Trump/Clinton.
    yes, da Donald gave to the Clinton Foundation. and more.

  • Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair||

    Blaming the victim always works so well.

  • AlSaulinsky||

    So, let me get this straight; someone does something you don't like, and because you don't like it, you can use violence to display you displeasure? Cool. Trump (praise be upon him) jihadis REALLY piss me off because they are so militantly ignorant that they should not even be allowed to breed legally. In fact Trump (peace be upon him) jihadis make me rethink the validity of forced sterilization. By this rational, I should be able to hospitalize as many as I want for cause. Fortunately for them, I actually HAVE self control and am able to control my emotions and not let them control me, which is why I will never debase myself enough to vote for a moral and ethical reprobate like Trump (peace be upon him).

  • RBS||

    You seem totally in control of your emotions.

  • ||

    Again, how does that invalidate his point?

  • Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe||

    That's his way of saying he's too weak to fight and too fat to run.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    He's in control enough to sit at a keyboard instead of sucker-punching somebody who is no threat to him.

  • pronomian||

    When you get thousands you'll get the occasional thug. At leas the other camps don't have to worry about the tens of elitists they get.

  • BearOdinson||

    Ok, I was going to try to play Devil's Advocate for a minute and say we don't know what the protestors were doing that may have led to the punch and perhaps the officers were responding to the second punch (like Refs in NFL always flagging the guy who retaliates, not the guy who threw the first punch).

    But, contrary to the standard here at HnR, i watched the video BEFORE commenting. Considering the police were already escorting the protestors out, and the puncher didn't apparently have any connection prior to the punch (at least not directly enough to warrant violence), I am actually floored that the police didn't even look at the guy who did the punching. I am as "cops suck" as anyone else around here. But, usually the problem is arresting too many people. Not a single one of these cops seemed to make any move towards the guy who did the punching.

    Yep, still the land of the free and the home of the brave!

  • sarcasmic||

    More often than not, unless it is a domestic violence situation, the cops will side with someone who picks a fight. Being that cops beat people up all day long, they figure that the victim deserved it.

  • This Machine||

    More often than not, unless it is a domestic violence situation, the cops will side with someone who picks a fight.

    Really? I didn't know that.

  • Ken Hagler||

    I took it to mean that the attacker was an undercover or off-duty cop, and the other cops recognized him.

  • Riven||

    With that ponytail? I was under the impression that cops didn't suffer hippies to live.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I'm sure this was just the police response to defuse the situation.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    At the Trump rally in Manchester, NH, the current police chief, Nick Willard, was a VIP guest and got an on-air shout-out from The Donald himself.

    I'm sure the Trump campaign's networking with local police departments along the campaign trail has no influence on the demeanor of the police officers assigned to provide security at these rallies. None whatsoever.

  • ||

    You're just being humorless. Or emotional. Or something. Hey, look, over there...no assault going on there.

    /RBS

  • Yuge Greatness, Jr.||

    Jones told the Washington Post that he and three companions, "a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man" went to the rally as a "social experiment." One of the people in the group, Ronnie C. Rouse,

    I've got 10-1 that this eventually gets misreported as "Rhonda Rousey beats up Trump protesters".

  • John||

    This sucks but sadly it was inevitable. For decades leftists have made a great sport out of showing up and "protesting" anyone on the right by disrupting their speeches and rallies. And for decades the Right has done the right thing and risen above it. Of course, this has done nothing but encourage the left and made their behavior worse. And eventually the Right was going to stop rising above it.

    We live in a country where everyone has the right to assemble. It is not like the people on the left don't have the ability to have their own rallies and make their own speeches. So there is no reason to go and disrupt the other side other than you want to just deprive them of the ability to get their message out.

    It is amazing that this hasn't happened before now. I don't know what you do about it. Certainly, you should clamp down on it and go after the guy who threw the punch to the full extent of the law. And shame on the LEOs for not doing that. That, however, is unlikely to solve the problem. It will keep a lid on it for a while but as long as the left keeps shouting down and disrupting every rally or speech they don't like, it is just a matter of time before something awful happens. I don't know what you do to stop that.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    Of course, it is the left's fault.

    Rouse said as soon as Trump’s speech began, someone in the crowd singled out him and his friends, screaming, “You need to get the f— out of there!” Rouse said that his group had not said anything and that the comment was unprovoked.

    Could be an understatement, or a total lie. Or the truth.

  • John||

    Who knows. I was speaking more generally. Lefty protesters have been showing up at rightwing rallies for decades and making a scene and nuisance of themselves. It was inevitable that eventually people would tire of it and respond in kind. Whether these people were actually doing that in this case is besides the point. Even if they were not, the people at the rally assumed they were there to do that and that is what caused this incident. Take away the years of leftists showing up to disrupt the speeches and political rallies of their opponents (which is a real fascist tactic by the way) and this event never happens.

    The day Trump supporters start showing up to disrupt Hillary or Cruz rallies is the day you can fairly call their tactics fascist. Being mean to leftists who show up at to disrupt their rallies is bad but not the same thing.

  • Just say Nikki||

    "Responding in kind" only means punching someone who punches you. Not punching someone who protests peacefully.

  • John||

    There is nothing peaceful about shouting the speaker down and making so the event can't function. And leftists have been doing that for decades. No it is not right to punch someone. But it is inevitable that someone will if you disrupt enough events.

    In fact, the protesters go there hoping someone will punch them because they know people like you will condemn everyone there as a result. So the people at the rally have a choice; they can do nothing and let the protesters disrupt their rally or try to do something and run the risk violence breaks out and they have people like you saying they are evil, violent fascists. Creating this dilemma of course is the entire point of protesting the event. Some how no one ever seems to be bothered by that.

  • ||

    So the people at the rally have a choice; they can do nothing and let the protesters disrupt their rally or try to do something and run the risk violence breaks out and they have people like you saying they are evil, violent fascists.

    The false dichotomy is rich. Always go with the classics.

  • John||

    So do protesters not show up to disrupt rightwing speakers? Has the media been lying about that for the last 25 years?

    Again, the point is not about this incident. The point is that regardless of what these people were doing at the time, I am sure everyone there assumed they were there to disrupt the rally because that is what leftists have been doing for years.

    It is protesting 101. You show up, do everything you can to antagonize the people there and disrupt the event in hopes that they do something and look like the bad guy. And if they don't do anything, you get to disrupt their event.

    What do you not understand about that?

  • Just say Nikki||

    No, John, the point is about this incident. Stop deflecting.

  • PapayaSF||

    John is not "deflecting," he's putting it in context, and explaining the strategy behind the protesting. He's spot on. The whole point is to disrupt other people's speech, one way or the other. If you can get someone to lose their temper, great! Then the protestors are poor innocent victims, and everyone can be outraged that the police didn't arrest the guy who threw the punch. It's all good. They've now established the "fact" that Trump supporters are dangerous fascists and in cahoots with the cops. Mission accomplished.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Well, yes, they have established that fact. Clearly.

  • JW||

    It is protesting 101. You show up, do everything you can to antagonize the people there and disrupt the event in hopes that they do something and look like the bad guy. And if they don't do anything, you get to disrupt their event.

    Fucking freedom, man. It sucks!

    John, if this was a private event, they have the right to forcibly eject the protesters, but they can't beat them up in the process. If it's a public event, suck it up, buttercup.

  • AlSaulinsky||

    So allowing the police, who are paid for security, to actually do their job is not an option? There are times when violence MUST be met with violence, a rally for an an ethical and moral reprobate is not one of those times. Then again, attempting to end a disruption with physical violence is NEVER an option.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    Non-aggression Principle - How does that work?

  • John||

    How is shouting someone down and disrupting their event consistent with the NAP?

  • Riven||

    wat

    Are you really saying that someone being loud and disruptive is just as bad as actual physical aggression?

  • John||

    In principle yes. If I can't make a speech in public because every time I try too a bunch of people show up and shout me down, is that really any better than if they showed up and beat me up? I don't get beat up I guess, but in both cases I am deprived of the ability to get my message out.

    I know you guys have lost you fucking minds over Trump, but forget that we are talking about him for a moment. Imagine it is a speaker you love. Do you really think that the NAP only applies to physical violence and not other forms of aggressive behavior that are done to accomplish the same ends?

    I don't and I don't think you do either if you are honest about it.

  • Just say Nikki||

    If I can't make a speech in public because every time I try too a bunch of people show up and shout me down, is that really any better than if they showed up and beat me up?

    Yes, it's a lot better, because no one beat you up.

    And we have lost our minds.

  • Riven||

    Words aren't actions, John. I saw your post below about walking up to someone and calling his wife/girlfriend a whore, and how you think he would be justified in using violence against you for doing so... But I disagree entirely.

    And were the people in this particular instance doing what you're saying?

  • John||

    And were the people in this particular instance doing what you're saying?

    Remains to be seen. And the person that hit them was wrong. I said that up front. But people have shown up to disrupt Trump rallies in the past. If these people were not doing anything, the people there assumed they were there to disrupt the rally based on the events of the past.

    The point is not to justify the violence. The point is to say that justified or not, it was invincible that things were going to get ugly if leftists keep showing up and disrupting things. And indeed, as Gilmore points out, the whole point of protesting is often to provoke such an incident.

    The point is not to say the violence is right. If this guy punched someone, throw him in jail. You will get no argument from me. Doing that however isn't going to solve the larger problem.

    I don't understand why pointing that out is so controversial. And I don't for the life of me understand how you have allowed your emotion on this issue to endorse the practice of shouting down and disrupting rival political rallies. Do you really think doing that is a good idea or will lead to anything but further poisoning the well of political discourse?

  • Just say Nikki||

    The point is not to say the violence is right. If this guy punched someone, throw him in jail. You will get no argument from me. Doing that however isn't going to solve the larger problem.

    The "larger problem" is people thinking it's okay to use physical violence as a response to words.

  • JW||

    The "larger problem" is people thinking it's okay to use physical violence as a response to words

    Maybe at your Lilith Fairs and all, that's OK, but this is man territory.

    Are we not mansplaining how this all works, hard enough for you? Do you need it explained like a feminine hygiene commercial? You chicks understand those.

  • John||

    No Nikki,

    The larger problem is the left sees inciting violence as a good political tactic. People are what they are. They are not going to change. Throwing that guy in jail isn't going to stop the next guy from punching some leftist in the face and the Left then using that as an excuse to do the same to someone else.

    Even if you want them all in jail, you can't undo the damage once violence starts. So, it would be better for everyone if both sides stayed the fuck away from the other side's rallies.

    That is all I am saying. Why does that cause you so much grief?

  • Zeb||

    If I can't make a speech in public because every time I try too a bunch of people show up and shout me down, is that really any better than if they showed up and beat me up?

    Yes.

    And Trump doesn't seem to be having any problems making speeches in public. Last I checked, these events are full of people shouting and cheering and whatnot. It's a fucking political rally.

    You are right that the left does do more of the disruptive kind of protesting. The only people on the right i can think of who do it that much are certain anti-abortion protestors. But it's their right to do so at a public event.

  • John||

    Yes.

    How so? I am just as un-free to speak in public in both cases. Do you really think that any sort of tactic, no matter how disruptive is okay as long as it doesn't involve actual violence? I don't see how you can think that if you do.

    The only people on the right i can think of who do it that much are certain anti-abortion protestors.

    That is a good example. So if the protesters make it impossible for someone to walk into an abortion clinic without facing a torrent of abuse and humiliation, you are okay with that? You don't think that has a real effect on people's ability to exercise their right to an abortion?

    I would love to see the kittens Nikki would be having over such a thing.

  • Just say Nikki||

    I've never objected to pro-life protesters' right to be dicks to abortion-seekers at clinics.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    I've never objected to pro-life protesters' right to be dicks to abortion-seekers at clinics try to convince women not to murder the most vulnerable human beings in existence

    Actually, you know what, forget it, Trump has managed to fuck this board up enough without me trolling Nicole. Nevermind.

  • Just say Nikki||

    I think they're wrong to do so, of course, but it's their right.

  • Zeb||

    I don't know if I'd say that I'm OK with it, but I don't think it is appropriate to use violence against them unless they are getting physical or making credible threats of violence.

    Again, Trump is not having trouble speaking in public. SO you are talking about a hypothetical situation as ridiculous as some commie moron lamenting that it is possible under capitalism for some evil corporation to buy up all of the fresh water supplies in the world or something.

  • Juice||

    is that really any better than if they showed up and beat me up?

    Yes. Next question.

  • Homple||

    Does the NAP only forbid physical contact violence, or does it also discountenance stuff like shouting down a person trying to give a speech?

  • SugarFree||

    Words aren't aggression, snowflake.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Words aren't aggression, snowflake.

    Words aren't aggression, but Trump's supporters aren't the type to just sit there and let it happen if someone is protesting a Trump rally. These aren't College Republican-types, they're generally blue-collar workers and aren't really going to be interested in working out the nuances of whether or not some shitlib agitators desperate to relive the 60s are violating the NAP. Which of course is the whole point of these protests--to provoke someone to physically react and say "SEE!! FASCISM!!" as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Trump's supporters aren't the type to just sit there and let it happen if someone is protesting a Trump rally. These aren't College Republican-types, they're generally blue-collar workers and aren't really going to be interested in working out the nuances of whether or not some shitlib agitators desperate to relive the 60s are violating the NAP.

    I thought the anti-Trump people were the elitists who were being big meanies to these poor oppressed blue-collar workers. But their friends seem to think they're subhuman.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Your passive-aggressive response is noted.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Fascinating. Tell us more about how it's really the fault of the guy who was assaulted, RRR.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Fascinating. Tell us more about how it's really the fault of the guy who was assaulted, RRR

    Right after you're done sweeping the ashes of that strawman you torched.

    Maybe after that, you can describe how exactly this group was "singled out" at the start of the rally to begin with, which led to this whole incident. "White woman, Muslim, and gay man" are pretty broad categories.

  • SugarFree||

    Words aren't aggression, but Trump's supporters aren't the type to just sit there and let it happen if someone is protesting a Trump rally.

    So they are violent subhumans who can't be expected to conform to the legal conventions of society? Well, at least we agree on something.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Well, when your interest is in "burn it all down," the normal social conventions will tend to go by the wayside.

  • Homple||

    SF, could you then clarify what constitutes the "aggression' part of NAP?

  • SugarFree||

    encroachment upon another individual's life, liberty, or property, or attempt to obtain from another via deceit what could not be consensually obtained

    Neither Trump's life, liberty or property are threatened by mean words.

    (Not that anyone of you has proven that these people even disrupted the event in the first place.)

  • John||

    I think it does Homple. And I would bet you money the people on here would agree with me if the speaker were anyone but Trump.

  • SugarFree||

    Yes, someone who repeatedly says he is a not a libertarian is the perfect person to lecture us on a core libertarian principle.

    Like shrike or MNG, John is a better libertarian than any libertarian could possibly be.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Poor Donald, always victimized by his supporters committing unprovoked violence.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    Interfering with a person exercising their liberty can be seen a violation of the NAP (or whatever you want to call it). I would say that shouting over a person who wants to give a speech does not rise to that level. It may be a violation of the contract between the venue owner and the speaker, assuming the owner tolerates the disruption while promising the speaker order. But shouting over someone isn't a tort.

  • SRVolunteer||

    Trump was free to speak, and his supporters were free to rally.

    The protesters in question were being escorted out by law enforcement when one of them was attacked.

  • bacon-magic||

    Because that is not a form of aggression. Now if they were yelling "I'm going to kill you!", that would qualify.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    When John says something stupid, he's always speaking generally, never about the current situation or subject. Like when a female teacher is fired for being robbed and he complains about how hard it is to be a male teacher, he's not talking about that situation, just in general and you're just being mean and sexist for questioning it. He is still trying to master the Hillary method of never having to respond to criticism.

  • John||

    So in a story where a teacher had her phone stolen and was fired for "corrupting minors" because she had naked pictures on the phone, I mention how terrifying it must be to be a teacher these days.

    And I am the one who is stupid here. It is not that this board has gone insane or anything. Nope.

    I think it was AD who showed up afterwards and pointed out how insane the reaction that was.

    As for this case, I ask you the same thing I am asking everyone else, do you think that it is a good thing that leftists are going to these events hoping to incite violence? If so, why?

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    You said "especially a male teacher," John. And then went into a long hypothetical about a male teacher having his phone stolen by a girl who then takes nudes of herself to get the teacher fired/arrested. It was, at best, an absurd hypothetical when there was an actual incident involving a female teacher right there.

    As for this case, yes, I think it is a great thing that leftists are going to these events hoping to incite violence, because if the attendees don't resort to violence, it might actually change some minds and show that there is a rational alternative to progressivism. The actual violence that resulted here just confirms their biases, and drives away people who might've been on the fence. Trump is trying to create a gestapo before he is even in charge of the state. It's not a good look, to say the least.

  • John||

    Trump is trying to create a gestapo before he is even in charge of the state. It's not a good look, to say the least.

    That is retarded. I am sorry but it is. And people like you you say such shit are just self absorbed assholes who have been too fat and stupid for too long to understand what real fascism looks like.

    You are not making a rational argument. You are just engaging self aggrandizing invective. Anyone not caught up in it can see that. And some day you will too.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    "a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man"
    Rouse said as soon as Trump’s speech began, someone in the crowd singled out him and his friends, screaming, “You need to get the f— out of there!” Rouse said that his group had not said anything and that the comment was unprovoked.

    I'm already calling "hate hoax." 1) There are plenty of white women at Trump rallies. 2) How exactly were they singled out? Was the Muslim a female with a hijab, or just a random swarthy-looking dude? 3) How did they know the gay man was gay? Did he have a t-shirt identifying him as such?

    Once the details come out, it will probably be that Rouse's group was loudly talking shit about Trump, Trump's supporters couldn't help but hear and told them to fuck off, and when they were being removed a random asshole decided to give one them his right hand of fellowship.

    The puncher should have been arrested. No question about that. But these incidents are going to become increasingly common at Trump rallies because his supporters don't give a fuck about feelz or "rising above it" when protestors try to disrupt the event. They'll see it as an attack and respond in kind. Considering the left's tendency to become more and more provocative to get media attention, I won't be surprised if someone ends up in the hospital. the question really becomes who wants to actually be the martyr that takes the shit-kicking.

  • John||

    That is exactly what I am saying Red Rocks. I don't think any of that is good or will end in anything good. Yet somehow pointing out the facts of the case and the reality of what is going on at these rallies makes me Ken, and no doubt you, Nazis.

    Welcome to the Party Red Rocks.

  • RBS||

    Have you actually endorsed Trump John? Or is that more of certain commentors losing their minds re: Trump?

  • John||

    I would take Trump as a lesser of available evils. I can't see how he would be any worse than any of the other GOP candidates and he might be better for the simple reason that he would shake things up a bit. I don't believe that all of these big donors are panicking about Trump because they give a shit about the country.

    I think the people who are shitting their pants over him are just virtue signaling morons. I really do.

  • ||

    Yes John, have you any published endorsements of Trump in newspapers that rhyme with New York Toast?

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    the facts of the case

    You don't know the facts of the case.

  • John||

    Is it not the case that leftists are showing up at these rallies hoping to cause trouble? We don't yet know all the facts of this case. But we certainly know the facts of other cases and the tendency of Leftists to do that.

    As RRR points out, this case stinks. And even if it doesn't, that doesn't change the larger problem of the Left trying to provoke violence at these rallies and what a bad thing that is.

    Do you really think trying to provoke violence at political rallies is a good idea? You endorse what the left is doing here? If you don't, then what is your issue here?

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    You don't know the facts of the case, but you're defending your comments as merely stating the facts of the case.

    You, Ken, RRR, Papaya are just telling the story you prefer, so you can make the arguments you think are more interesting to discuss. Which is fine, just be honest about it.

  • John||

    You MJ.

    Maybe these people were doing nothing. I doubt it but I don't know. And i have said like a hundred times, the guy who threw the punch should have been arrested.

    But we do know that leftists in other cases have gone to these rallies hoping to incite violence on the part of the people there.

    I ask you again, do you endorse that? Do you think that is a good idea and something that should be considered acceptable behavior?

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    And i have said like a hundred times, the guy who threw the punch should have been arrested

    Actually, as of the timestamp on this comment, you haven't said that once.

  • John||

    Actually, as of the timestamp on this comment, you haven't said that once

    No that is not true. Go back and read my first comment at 10:46 am

    Certainly, you should clamp down on it and go after the guy who threw the punch to the full extent of the law.

    I said up front the guy should be arrested. Please take that comment back. You are wrong. Maybe you didn't read my post or missed that sentence. Regardless, your accusation is just wrong and a lie and you need to please take it back.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    True. I just searched the page for "arrested." You had said it once. My apologies.

  • You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)||

    I don't "endorse" it. I'm ambivalent. These people can do what they want to do. I don't know what these particular people intended. I think protest is acceptable behavior. I don't know how I feel about non-violent provocateurs, but if a person "incites" a violent thug into acting like a violent thug, I don't consider the inciter to be in the wrong. If I'm going to moralize about acceptable behavior, then my denunciation is directed toward the moron who falls for the trap.

  • JW||

    Do you really think trying to provoke violence at political rallies is a good idea? You endorse what the left is doing here? If you don't, then what is your issue here?

    I'll go on record and here and say, "yes."

    Not that it's a good idea, but I have every right to show up at one of your public events and speak my opinion. You have every right to ignore me.

  • John||

    Okay JW,

    How do I ignore you if you are making a scene and screaming? What am I supposed to do? Do I have a right to go to the symphony and stand up and scream? If I don't, then how do I have a right to go to a political rally and do the same?

    Don't the people who went to the rally have a right to hear what the speaker has to say just like the rest of the audience at the symphony has a right to hear the symphony?

    How can you endorse that sort of behavior? Since when did "free speech" include the right to prevent other people from speaking by shouting over them?

  • You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)||

    Can you provide any example of this happening? Particularly a political rally, FFS. The audience is often loud, and the speaker has the advantage of a microphone and sound system.

    I can think of instances of leftists screaming over their critics, trying to bar them, remove or cover their signs, etc. But they are always at leftist political rallies, against conservative or libertarian provocateurs, like Schiff, or Breitbart, or Lauren Southern.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Here is one example: Shocking moment Time photographer is 'choke-slammed' by a Secret Service agent at a rally for Donald Trump in Virginia

    The incident came after the protesters – including some from the Black Lives Matter movement - disrupted the rally, which was held as the Republican front-runner came under fire for not clearly condemning white supremacist support during an interview on CNN on Sunday.

    A group of protesters from Black Lives Matter was escorted away from the raucous rally by security guards as the crowd around them began to chant: 'All lives matter.'

    Everyone is on edge, everyone is waiting for something to happen. They seem like horrible places to be.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    How do I ignore you if you are making a scene and screaming?

    In this instance, Trump had a microphone and massive speakers, the protestors didn't. He could have easily talked over them. Or addressed them and asked about their specific complaints. Or anything else. He had the podium, they didn't. And you know the symphony thing is a straw man, people pay to go to a private venue to hear the symphony. A political rally is a public, open event.

  • PapayaSF||

    I'd bet RRR is right. That story stinks.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    They'll see it as an attack and respond in kind.

    Those poor dumb animals, they just can't help themselves. It's astonishing how similar Trump is to Obama, even down to how his defenders respond to any criticism.

  • Just say Nikki||

    So much this.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    I'd love to have you point out where I said the response was justified and I'm perfectly okay with the guy being punched. Noting the temperament of Trump supporters without adding the "THEY'RE ALL NAZIS" qualifier doesn't equate to support for their actions or Trump as a candidate, but given the pants-shitting over his candidacy, I can see why you and Nikki are reacting that way.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    I didn't say you were supporting it, but conceding that it is inevitably going to happen because of who Trump's supporters are is the same thing as saying that black people are inevitably going to riot because of who they are. It's conceding that they can't be expected to behave like adults, and it's another reason to energetically oppose Trump.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    I didn't say you were supporting it, but conceding that it is inevitably going to happen because of who Trump's supporters are is the same thing as saying that black people are inevitably going to riot because of who they are

    Well, I'd certainly be willing to tell people "don't start shit at a Trump rally" the same as I would say "don't shoot a black kid in the hood carrying a water pistol." Having enough social intelligence to not boil simmering cauldrons is part of what holds society together.

  • JW||

    And eventually the Right was going to stop rising above it.

    They will hence be known as "Brownvests".

  • Yuge Greatness, Jr.||

    Trump supporters ought to all identify as Muslim so that any incidents of violence by them get written off as blowback.

  • Timrekgrun||

    Why does everything about this election feel like an elaborate but immature prank. I'm just waiting for Ashton Kutchner to jump out and inform America that it's been plunked!

  • Marty Comanche||

    "OK, let’s get serious now. Who should really be president?"

    "He's already being sworn into office. We weren’t paying attention!"

  • GILMORE™||

    "a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man" went to the rally as a "social experiment."

    Wait, is this the one where the Polish guy yells, "Fire!"?

  • sarcasmic||

    You know who else encouraged violence at political rallies?

  • John||

    Lenin?

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    I am the walrus.

  • Citizen X||

    Shut the fuck up, Donnie.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Shut the fuck up Donny.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    You're out of your element, Donny.

  • RBS||

    Leopold II?

  • Homple||

    Melissa Click?

  • R C Dean||

    SEIU?

    Remember when they would go to tea party rallies and attack people? They seemed particularly fond of going after blacks and the disabled, if memory serves.

    Apparently, nobody else does either.

  • John||

    Its Trump world RC. Noting stands in the way of getting their righteous virtue signal on.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Are you saying that Ponytail guy was an SEIU plant?

  • B.P.||

    Protesters, fake sheriffs, a rogue, violent cowboy.... a couple of these paragraphs sound like the casting call for a Guy Ritchie or Tarantino movie.

  • B.P.||

    Also, sheesh, I expected the folks at a Trump rally to be better dressed.

  • DJF||

    How do you know its a Trump supporter, you don't even know who it is.

  • GILMORE™||

    "here's how it works = you protest, then when you're getting kicked out, I'll jump out of the crowd and punch you. Then we post the video to YouTube and WHOO HOO PROFIT!!"

  • John||

    Come on Gilmore, the left would never engage in a false flag operation. Next you are going to tell me that the Nazis burned down the Reichstag and Stalin had Kirov assassinated, you lying running dog, racist, imperialist.

  • GILMORE™||

    "" the left would never engage in a false flag operation. '"

    I have no doubt that at least SOME of the endless stream of shit-starters that have appeared at Trump rallies have purposely orchestrated them with the intent of trying to get some footage of "Racist Beating Black Folks" thinking this will make explosive media-material.

    I also have no doubt that there's a real contingent of racist dickheads perfectly willing to play the needed part, even if the protestors had every intent of 'staging' something. Why fake it when the real thing is so plentiful?

    Either way it doesn't matter because of what Ken said = the people who support Trump don't give a fuck about this sort of thing. At best they help perpetuate an 'icky' atmosphere around Trump that keeps a tiny sliver of potential supporters away.

    but in the end its all about as significant as the Poop-Swastikas @ Mizzou = it doesn't matter if they were real, a joke, or a false flag. Its just poop on a wall, who cares.

  • John||

    I am sure there is a real contingent of racist dickheads there. There are dickheads everywhere, especially at political events. And that is why showing up at a political rally hoping to provoke the dickheads there is a really assholish and nasty thing to do.

    Everyone is free to have whatever rally they want. Showing up at the other guy's rally accomplishes nothing except maybe depriving him of his right to have a rally by disrupting it. This shit of showing up at rival political events to cause trouble has got to stop. It is only going to end badly.

  • GILMORE™||

    "" It is only going to end badly.""

    But that's *the point*

  • Just say Nikki||

    Showing up at the other guy's rally accomplishes nothing except maybe depriving him of his right to have a rally by disrupting it.

    Yeah, why would anyone protest anything? So pointless! Sad.

  • John||

    Yeah because depriving other people of the ability to have a peaceful political rally and get their message out is just okay in your book? You would think it is just fine if a bunch of off duty cops showed up and disrupted the event anytime someone tried to speak about police brutality?

    They are just protesting Niki, right?

  • Just say Nikki||

    Yes, John, I believe everyone has the right to peaceful protest.

  • John||

    What is peaceful about screaming and disrupting the event?

  • Just say Nikki||

    The part where there's no physical violence involved.

  • PapayaSF||

    So if I got some people to protest you by screaming outside your bedroom window day and night, that would count as "peaceful" because there's "no physical violence involved"...?

  • Just say Nikki||

    So if I got some people to protest you by screaming outside your bedroom window day and night, that would count as "peaceful" because there's "no physical violence involved"...?

    Well, yes. Because that's what "peaceful" means.

  • Yuge Greatness, Jr.||

    Oh, come on. "Peace" is more than just "absence of violence".

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    ^This.

    Why is the difference between rancorous debate and actual physical violence impossible for some people to understand?

  • John||

    DEATFBIRSECIA

    How is my screaming and not letting you be heard "debate"? Is there some other meaning of the word debate that involves one side screaming and the other side being shouted down?

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Is the rally invitation-only? Is the public not invited? Otherwise, you don't have the right to have a rally beyond someone not physically assaulting you or destroying your property to stop it. Protesting a rally is not violating anyone's rights. When did you become Tony, John?

  • SugarFree||

    When did you become Tony, John?

    Years ago.

  • John||

    I will ask you again SF, why are you so butt hurt. These disagreements are not nearly as nasty as the ones over the Iraq war. And you never acted like that then.

    I wonder if perhaps you are less confident now. You had good points to make about the Iraq war and had the better of it sometimes. Now, I think perhaps you realize you don't have such good points and that is why you are so butt hurt all the time now. Whatever the reason, it is not because we disagree or I am any more or less reasonable than I have always been. And it is a shame. Ir really is.

  • SugarFree||

    Oh, no. Have my accurate words aggressed against you, snowflake? Why not threaten to take a swing at me like your little buddy joe?

  • John||

    Otherwise, you don't have the right to have a rally beyond someone not physically assaulting you or destroying your property to stop it.

    So in your view I could go to every Hillary rally with a bullhorn and start screaming into it such that no one can hear her speech and that would be okay? And if Hillary or her supporters did anything to stop me or threw me out, I would be a victim?

    Sorry but I don't see how you can say that. I don't see how my free speech rights extend to me disrupting your rights just so long as I don't engage in violence. That makes no sense to me. I have a right to speak, but I don't have a right to create a disruption to prevent you from being heard.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Everyone says throwing you out of a private event is allowed, John.

  • Just say Nikki||

    And surely the "Sheriff's office" guys were in on it too.

  • GILMORE™||

    in case it went over your head, i was mocking the idea it might be a 'false flag'

  • SugarFree||

    Then why did all the Jews in the World Trade Center call in sick on 9/11, Nikki?

  • GILMORE™||

    Dude come on now, we all know 9/11 was faked

  • ||

    Those Jews faked Sandy Hook as well.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    And we hid all the kinderlach in your basement, if I recall the cabal meetings from back in 5772.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    You're blowing my mind, D.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Ban leather vests.

  • This Machine||

    Damn it , Crusty. When you're right, you're right, I'll give you that.

  • Riven||

    Nobody needs leather vests

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    That guy does. It's the only way to pull off that ponytail.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Jones told the Washington Post that he and three companions, "a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man" went to the rally as a "social experiment."

    Back in the day, me and my crew used to go to shows and start shit.

    We'd start shit with Suis, long-hairs, Nazi skinheads . . .

    Sometimes, we'd get the shit beat out of us, and when that happened? Even when we were fighting the skinheads, we didn't blame it on them being Nazis. It wasn't because of that. It was because we were starting shit!

    We liked it. We started shit on purpose. Haven't you ever heard of Project Mayhem?

    So, three people went to a Trump rally to start shit, and they got ejected?

    That doesn't mean Trump and his supporters are Nazis anymore than the other day's piece about them raising their right hands to take an oath to vote in the primaries.

    It just means three people went to a Trump rally to start shit, and they got ejected for it.

    There are so many things to go after Trump and his supporters for. Why not choose one of them. You're only inflaming his support. Every time you try to make Trump and his supporters look like Nazis, you are reinforcing the perception that mainstream culture is out to get blue collar, whites.

    If you really want to undermine Trump, start publishing stories about how he's tolerant of gays, kisses feminist ass, and refers to blacks as "African-Americans".

  • John||

    Pretty much that Ken. I will tell you what, lets show up at a Bernie rally with "Koch Brothers Rule" T-Shirts and signs that say "Socialism is murder" and see what happens. I bet we would have worse luck than these guys did.

  • ||

    I think that would be a great idea. I think that this would be a terrific way of showing your fealty to your new savior, St. Donald.

  • John||

    No it wouldn't be a good idea. It would make me asshole. It is a free country and the Bernie people have every right to have their rallies without a bunch of assholes showing up at the event to disrupt it.

    How about we just leave each other alone?

  • Yuge Greatness, Jr.||

    How about we just leave each other alone?

    That's crazy talk.

  • Just say Nikki||

    You don't want to leave people alone. You're supporting Trump.

  • ||

    It would make me asshole.

    No, it would just be consistent with already being an asshole.

  • ||

    Bernie people have every right to have their rallies without a bunch of assholes showing up at the event to disrupt it.

    Well, one might point out that the crowd is a sea of assholes anyway. Much like Trump rallies, but with a different Hero.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    It would make me asshole.

    John is asshole. Why Old Man hate?

  • ||

    Because he's not a smooth young girl's asshole. He's a hairy, scabrous, dingleberry-caked, prolapsed, male asshole.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Hey, it's not prolapsed!

  • SugarFree||

    It is a free country and the Bernie people have every right to have their rallies without a bunch of assholes showing up at the event to disrupt it.

    Just like we are free to complain about Trump without John dogging our comments.

    Oh, wait... we aren't free to do that, are we?

  • John||

    Since when is this board turned into a political rally? I thought it was here for debate and free discussion. IS this your safe space Sugar Free?

  • SugarFree||

    Your words are aggressive and have upset me, John. But you don't have to live by the principles you want to force on the people you don't like, right?

    You precious little snowflake.

  • John||

    Then you should go form a moderated board or get reason to stop advertising this as a free discussion. If you want to have a Libertarian board where you stand around and smell each others' farts, have fun. I promise I won't show up and kick you around.

  • SugarFree||

    If you want to have a Libertarian board where you stand around and smell each others' farts, have fun.

    You've sunk to Tulpa's level.

    You're just a troll, John. No better than joe.

  • John||

    Why Sugar Free?

    I don't understand what you are saying. You complaining about me disagreeing with you on this board is not the same as me showing up at reason headquarters and making a scene so John Stossell can't give a talk.

    What has happened to you? You are buttt hurt all of the time lately. We have never agreed about most things. And it never seemed to bother you and you never unreasonable. I haven't changed. You have. And I don't understand why.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    No, John's worse, he's a True Believer.

  • John||

    No, John's worse, he's a True Believer.

    A believer about what? Trump? How could you conclude that? I am genuinely dumbfounded how anyone could conclude saying "he is the lesser of the available evils and the people shitting their pants over this are morons" makes me a true believer?

    I don't know what to say to that., I really don't. I have no idea why you would think that. So it is impossible for me to respond to your assertion other than to say it is ridiculous.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Since when is a political rally a Constitution-free zone, John?

  • John||

    So I have a right to stand and shout and disrupt public events? And even if I do, HP, do you really endorse me doing so? You think that this is how public debate should be conducted now?

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Endorse? No. Believe that you should not be subject to violence for being an asshole? Absolutely. If this happened, and the protestors were not attacked, it just makes the protestors, and thereby the left, look bad. As it is, it proved to them and to many objective observers that they were right.

  • John||

    Yeah HP,.

    Thanks for admitting your entire view of this is driven by your desire to believe what you want to believe. Why are you so intellectually and socially insecure your entire view of a subject is driven by the desire to social signal and feel superior about your opponents? That is all that is going on here.

  • Ken Shultz||

    You missed this thread, John.

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/03.....nt_5962578

    You should give the story a read, too.

    It's like Mr. Fisher is given us a daily Trump = Nazis update.

    They're going full Godwin.

  • John||

    You haven't really made it as a Republican unless they call you a Nazi. At this point you can only laugh. It is not like they are going to listen to reason or anything.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Did you read the thread?

    Did you read the story?

    There was another update yesterday:

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/03.....ds#comment

    Sieg Heil?

    I don't think so.

  • John||

    Remember when the Biden or maybe the Obama people, I forget which, locked the reporter in the closet so he wouldn't hear the speech given to donors? Somehow reason was able to restrain themselves from calling Obama a Nazi over that.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Did you even RTFA?

    Not only did these people not "start shit," they're not complaining about being ejected. They're complaining that while they were being escorted out by law enforcement, law enforcement allowed a Trump supporter to physical assault them.

    Stop reinforcing the perception that blue-collar white people are inherently violent.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Did you read my quote?

    "Jones told the Washington Post that he and three companions, "a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man" went to the rally as a "social experiment."

    I used to kick Nazis in the ass as a "social experiment".

    They went to be provocative, and they provoked something.

    If they want to sue the Sheriff's department for violating their rights, they should be free to do so--and maybe they should win.

    But nothing that happened here reflects on Trump or his supporters.

    There are lots of legitimate things on which to legitimately attack Trump and his supporters. Pick from among them.

    This incident signifies nothing--but that provocative people went to start shit and shit started.

  • Just say Nikki||

    If you think this is "starting shit" that deserves physical violence, you are a piece of shit. It's pretty much that simple.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I didn't say it deserved violence.

    I said the violence doesn't reflect on Trump or his supporters.

    I said it doesn't mean they're Nazis.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Violence committed by Trump supporters doesn't reflect on Trump supporters? Right.

  • Ken Shultz||

    This "violence" was apparently perpetrated by the Sheriff's office--if it was perpetrated.

    We're they asked to leave private property, and did they subsequently refuse to do so?

  • SugarFree||

    This "violence" was apparently perpetrated by the Sheriff's office--if it was perpetrated.

    Are you retarded? Like actually retarded?

    Watch the video, fuckface.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Are you saying that Trump supporters are a bunch of Nazis because somebody punched someone that was there to be provocative?

    I've seen worse at baseball games.

    The Sheriff's office shouldn't arrest people for exercising their right to free speech. That's my problem.

    Denigrating Trump supporters as being Nazis for this incident is also a problem.

    I'm not here to justify any kind of violence--especially on the part of the police. But to suggest that Trump's supporters are a bunch of Nazis because of this incident is both ridiculous and counterproductive.

  • ||

    The Sheriff's office shouldn't arrest people for exercising their right to free speech. That's my problem.

    That's not a problem. It's a private event. Punching someone in custody and being led out, THAT is a problem.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Who's called them Nazis in this thread other than you? But go ahead, keep burning that straw man.

  • RBS||

    It reflects on the individual(s) committing the violence. Or is collectivizing an entire group now OK as long as they are Trump supporters?

  • Just say Nikki||

    No, I agree with that, but Ken is trying to say it has nothing to do with Trump's supporters at all, and it clearly does.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Oh, and Ken—no one mentioned Nazis but the commenters.

  • Ken Shultz||

    We've had three threads in three days, all by the same Reason staff writer, equating Trump and his supporters with Nazi style thuggery.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    We've had multiple incidients in 3 days of Trump supporters committing Nazi style thuggery. And Trump has tacitly or openly supported each incident.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Raising your right hand to promise to vote in the primaries is Nazi style thuggery?

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're Tulpa.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Nikki, wasn't it the day before yesterday we were talking about whether Trump supporters raising their right hands to swear to vote in the primaries was like Nazis sieg heiling at the Nuremberg Rally?

  • SugarFree||

    Oh, and Ken—no one mentioned Nazis but the commenters.

    No one's mentioned Nazis but Ken. He's fighting a paper tiger, and by God, he's fucking WINNING!

  • Ken Shultz||

    Read this story, right in this thread.

    Then read this one from yesterday:

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/03.....ds#comment

    Then read this one from the day before:

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/03.....ing-creppy

    And then tell me if you see a pattern.

    I despise Trump. I meet the prospect of him being President with nothing but despair.

    I also denounce the media for painting the Tea Party as racists, Second Amendment advocates as terrorists, etc., etc.

    I was never Tea Party. I was never in a militia. I resist smearing those people for being what they're not--in part because I hate it when I, as a libertarian, am smeared for being something I'm not. If I do that for the Tea Party, the militias, and others, I don't see why I shouldn't extend that to Trump and his supporters, too.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Read this story, right in this thread.

    Then read this one from yesterday:

    Then read this one from the day before:

    And then tell me if you see a pattern."

    Or am I supposed to forget everything I read here, and all the discussion I've had, too, every time the thread drops off the front page?

  • Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe||

    Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't fix the problem, you didn't use enough!

  • Ken Shultz||

    There are only two legitimate uses for violence--self-defense and recreation.

    It is never legitimate for the government or their employees to use it for recreation--and that's what they seem to have done here.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    You call it "starting shit," I call it 1A.

    Potato Po-tah-to.

  • John||

    Sure. And me walking up to you in the street and calling your wife or girlfriend a whore is the 1st Amendment too. If however I made a habit of that and ended up getting my ass kicked, would you say I was an "innocent victim"? Or would you call me a dumb ass for not knowing that calling people's wives whores is a bad idea?

    It is the same thing here.

  • ||

    If however I made a habit of that and ended up getting my ass kicked, would you say I was an "innocent victim"? Or would you call me a dumb ass for not knowing that calling people's wives whores is a bad idea?

    Not mutually exclusive.

    "Look how she was dressed, she was asking to be raped!"

  • Just say Nikki||

    I would call you an innocent victim. It would be 100% wrong to hit someone for insulting your spouse.

    You people and your fucking honor culture.

  • SugarFree||

    A Trump rally should be a safe space, Nikki. The attacker was just taking a little muscle over there.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    ^ THIS
    (dear god, please don't let SF post some slashfic above my arrow)

    I don't see how, John, you can defend the "concept" of this violence but at the same time condemn the FAR LESS violent response to that campus reporter. This guys was actually punched. In the face. Unprovoked. WORDS ARE NOT VIOLENCE. And should not be met with such.

    Private event? Fine, eject him as peacefully as possible, which is exactly what was happening.
    Until unprovoked violence was initiated against him.

  • John||

    Why do you think I am defending the concept of this violence? It is terrible. That is my whole point. It is fucking awful and will be the death of what is left of our Republic if it doesn't stop.

    I am not defending it. I am saying it is inevitable given the left's tactics. That doesn't mean it is defensible or this guy shouldn't go to jail. But people and crowds are what they are.

    How can you read that as "defending it" in concept? That is not my point at all.

  • John||

    Okay, Nikki, so you are now denying that there is any such thing as provoking someone. The person who kicked some guy's ass for calling his wife a whore is 100% just as morally responsible as the guy who goes out and hits some random stranger in the head playing knockout.

    I don't think you are that stupid Nikki. I really don't. You have just lost your fucking mind over Trump. Seriously, just calm the fuck down about it.

  • Just say Nikki||

    I didn't say there was no such thing as provoking someone. I said it was 100% morally wrong to give in to that kind of provocation. Grow up and stop hitting people because they hurt your feelings. Or maybe start hanging out with some SJWs.

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    "Or maybe start hanging out with some SJWs."

    Can I get some Trump muscle over here?

  • Michael||

    Do you have proof that these people were starting shit? I understand that even just sitting silently at one of these rallies is no guarantee that you won't be escorted out by the goons once someone singles you out. Your pink, furry little Trump boner is visibly pitching a tent, John, and it's kind of gross. I suggest thinking about baseball or skinny girls.

  • John||

    Maybe they were not. And regardless, you can't punch people. So I said in my first post that the guy who threw the punch should go to jail for it.

    That said, that doesn't change the fact that the left going to these rallies hoping to start shit is a really bad thing that is going to end badly. I don't understand how the people on this board can't understand that. The only thing I can conclude is that they see it as a good thing and are more interested in jerking off about how awful Trump is than anything else.

  • ||

    OK, this had to be said. Your wife is a whore.

    Coming to Chicago to take a swing at me?

  • John||

    No. And if you said it to my face, I wouldn't either. I would just laugh at you. But I am old enough to have something to lose and realize what an ass clown you are. Other people, won't be so forgiving. I would encourage you to go out on Divisions Street this weekend and give it a try. Just start calling guys' dates whores. Call it a social experiment. Get back to us with the results.

  • Woodchiprow Wilson||

    nikki is probably the only consistently reasonable person on these boards.

    she pisses everyone off because she calls out the bullshit that always dangles on the end of a poorly thought out rant. and we get into a lot of poorly thought out rants here.

    nikki stays reasonable and on point. you john, are the one that constantly loses his shit and changes the subject to some random "larger" point as soon as you are losing the argument. it's just groundhog day over and over and over here.

  • John||

    Whatever Wookdhips. There is nothing consistent about Nikki. Tomorrow or next week there will be someone she likes getting shouted down and she will be on here talking about how lousy it is.

    She can be consistent but like some people on here they have lost their minds over this. The only reasonable people on here on this subject are Cyto, RRR, Ken and RC. And all of us keep pointing out how badly this is going to end and how the left wants it that way.

    Somehow that means we are Nazis and endorse violence of something. And Nikki is the reasonable one here. Yeah.

  • Woodchiprow Wilson||

    "She can be consistent but like some people on here they have lost their minds over this. "

    "this" being the belief that a guy should be able to peacefully attend a rally without getting punched? we should all be defending this. i know you want to collectivize it into your eternal struggle against leftist protesters, but try to stay on point.

    lastly, i don't think you were actually accused of endorsing violence. you just get a kick out of rationalizing it, excusing it, then shrugging your shoulders.

  • John||

    Woodchipper,

    Why do you think I endorse the guy being punched? I said in my initial post at 1042 the guy should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Go back and look and debase yourself of the notion that I am saying that these people got what they deserved. I am not. So before we debate further, lets get that straight.

    What I am saying is, that even thought it is wrong and event though you have to stamp down on it when it happens, throwing this guy in jail doesn't undo the damage it causes and won't prevent this from ending badly.

    The guy who threw the punch is a small and easy problem. There are people like that everywhere and you throw them in jail. The big and hard problem is the fact that people and crowds being what they are, if protesters keep showing up at these rallies, we run the real risk of starting a real spiral of political violence. And once that genie is out of the bottle we are fucked. And the left wants it out and that is why they are going to these rallies.

    That is all I am saying. Why does that bother you so much and cause you to think I am endorsing violence? What about my reasoning am i missing that would cause you to think that?

  • Just say Nikki||

    Well, you keep saying violence is "inevitable" for one thing. It's not.

  • John||

    Well, you keep saying violence is "inevitable" for one thing. It's not.

    Yes it is. Admitting reality is not in any way endorsing it. If I went to an Eagles game in Philadelphia and started talking shit, I would get my ass kicked. It is 100% certain and anyone who has been to an Eagles game will tell you that.

    By your logic Nikki, anyone who understands that and acts accordingly is endorsing violence. No, they are not. You are just so fucking desperate to feel good about yourself and superior to the epople at these rallies, you will believe or think anything to accomplish that.

  • Woodchiprow Wilson||

    holy shit john. can you even read when you are this mad?

    me: i don't think you were actually accused of endorsing violence

    you: Why do you think I endorse the guy being punched?

    me: i don't think you were actually accused of endorsing violence

    you: That is all I am saying. Why does that bother you so much and cause you to think I am endorsing violence?

    me: you just get a kick out of rationalizing it, excusing it, then shrugging your shoulders.

    you:

  • Woodchiprow Wilson||

    cont'd...

    you: (4 paragraphs of rationalizing how violence is inevitably caused by peaceful actions of the non-violent and they should expect it. they may even crave it).

    it's amazing john. you point by point proved my case in an attempt to refute it.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    @ Woodchiprow

    Dude, she wont sleep with you...stop trying.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    If you made it a habit of calling guys' wives or girlfriends whores and then got your ass kicked and you were subsequently arrested for it, I wouldn't call you a dumb ass, I would call you a victim.

  • John||

    So you endorse any sort of behavior as long as it is not violence. I guess you think it is admirable to run around a black neighborhood calling people the N word and think that is great?

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Go ahead and keep burning that straw man, John, it's all you've got.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "You call it "starting shit," I call it 1A."

    You guys are conflating two separate questions.

    Question 1: Should people be allowed to express themselves without violence?

    Question 2: Are Trump and his supporters a bunch of proto-Nazis?

    Every time I answer Question 2 with a resounding, "No, Trump and his supporters are not proto-Nazis because of this incident", I get somebody citing Question 1: "But how can it be wrong to express yourself?".

    So let's be clear:

    Trump and his supporters are not Nazis.

    Not because of this incident, not because his campaign manager yanked the arm of a reporter who asked a tough question, and not because they raise their right hands to promise to vote.

    And what does that have to do with the First Amendment?

    Absolutely nothing.

    This response about the First Amendment isn't even a response. It isn't even on the same topic.

  • ||

    So let's be clear:

    Trump and his supporters are not Nazis.

    Of course not. They are much more related to the Italian model of fascists.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Actually, I think he's leaning more toward a Stalinist program.

  • This Machine||

    Damn. This changes my perspective of you, Ken. Now I gotta imagine young Ken with a mohawk, in beat-up DIY clothes and a leather vest with a Dead Kennedys button on the front. What color were the laces in your Doc Martens?

  • This Machine||

    Okay, maybe that came off the wrong way. Ken, I like you and I think you're generally pretty well-behaved and you make good points for discussion. I would never have seen you as being a punk, and it surprises me to know that you were, at one point. Hell, maybe you still are, but old punks are a dying breed.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I was about as hardcore as you could get.

    I got into it at the ground level. My dad was a big shot at the Treasury Department in DC, and we got reassigned to San Diego for a year when I was in the 6th grade. I"d lived a really sheltered life up to that point, and he thought it was a great idea to get me out into the real world (public school) and toughen me up a bit.

    I fell in with some friends whose older sisters were punks--at the very beginning in SoCal. This is like 1979. They liked to dress me up. Went to my first shows in 6th grade. I left DC as a the squarest kid on the block. But this was, you know, disco era/Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd era, cool. When I came back, I thought I was Elvis.

    Of course, DC was its own hot bed of hardcore. When I went to boarding school, the scene was really happening. I'd spend the summers traveling around SoCal.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It was sort of like Basketball Diaries, where on the one hand, you're in prep school, but on the other, there's this whole other life. It's always been like that. People at school in New Market couldn't even imagine life in SoCal, Hardcore kids had an easier time understanding boarding school. Most hardcore kids were suburbanites originally. It's sort of like soccer hooligans, I guess. I understand most of them are actually from the middle class.

    DK, not so much.

    Battalion of Saints shirt probably.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faQZOKGW5eA

    The laces that came with were fine.

    Hair short for boarding school. Before that, the chicks would put me in liberty spikes.

    It was probably the best time to be growing up. Supervision was lax. Youth culture today makes me want to cry.

  • This Machine||

    Damn. I am in awe and envy. I'm too young to have done any of that, I had to settle for listening to old Cro-Mags albums and stuff when I was growing up. The punk scene wasn't great in the rural Midwest so I just kinda gave it up and moved on to metal. Still love me some good old-fashioned hardcore though.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    Ken didn't mention that he's completely full of shit.

  • Lord Rollingpin||

    You didn't mention that you are Tulpa, so I guess it's a wash.

  • WhatAboutBob||

    If a white protestor at an Obama rally had been punched then the narrative would have been the white guy was a racist and deserved to be punched.

  • R C Dean||

    I believe the official narrative would have been a resounding, complete silence.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    Just like the narrative in this case, in which the black guy was a leftist agitator and deserved to be punched.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Fair's fair.

  • HeteroPatriarch||

    So we've got straw men, ad hominems, red herrings, and now the Tu Quoque. The Trumpkins have almost learned the full spectrum of fallacies.

  • ||

    Which is more retarded? You vote.

    Why you should support Bernie

    Why you should support The Donald

    It's a tough choice for me.

  • bacon-magic||

    Yes.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    As the WP article is pay-walled for me, can someone please clarify what the protestors did to disrupt the rally? Fisher's post makes it seem as if someone just noticed a black guy in the audience and called for security.

  • SugarFree||

    The video starts as they are being escorted out and one of them gets sucker-punched by the roadie for The Little River Band.

  • GILMORE™||

    +1 Lonesome Loser

  • Riven||

    Their simple presence was apparently disruptive enough that it violated the NAP, according to some* people.

    *John

  • John||

    So Riven, if a bunch of leftists did a DNS attack on Reason and shut the website down, would that violate the NAP? No one would be hurt. I would just prevent reason from getting its message out. It would no doubt cost them ad revenue, but it costs money to put on a political rally too and that money is lost if the rally doens't come off.

    Explain to me why the DNS violates the NAP, because ti sure seems like it should. But I thought the NAP applied to more than just breaking someone's skull.

  • ||

    They said words. Unwelcome words. So of course they should get beaten.

  • ||

    I bet they weren't even wearing the pin.

  • ||

    THE RIBBON. You West Coasters just don't get Seinfeld, do you?

  • ||

    You people with your New York sense of humor...

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    And they didn't take the fucking pledge!

    Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
    Get them up against the wall!
    There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me,
    Get him up against the wall!
    That one looks Jewish!
    And that one's a coon!
    Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
    There's one smoking a joint,
    And another with spots!
    If I had my way,
    I'd have all of you shot!

  • Crusty Juggler||

    They said they were singled out for no reason, and had done nothing to provoke their exit. Then the one guy give the finger to the crowd, and then Ponyvest hit him.

  • SugarFree||

    They said they were singled out for no reason

    Well they say a lot of things, don't they?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Whatever you say.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    How can you trust a prog?

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I don't believe they attended Trump rally to sit there quietly and learn, but that does not offend in anyway the response to their presence, or if they voiced displeasure in some capacity and what Trump said

  • Crusty Juggler||

    At what Trump said.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    You're getting harder to read than Gojira, Crusty. I can't tell what's sarcastic or 'in character' and what's serious.

    I'm taking a break!

  • Crusty Juggler||

    :(

  • Crusty Juggler||

    :(

  • Just say Nikki||

    Fisher's post makes it seem as if someone just noticed a black guy in the audience and called for security.

    And it's not the first time I've read about that happening at a Trump rally.

  • GILMORE™||

  • ||

    Does he torture dogs, too?

  • GILMORE™||

    I'm not sure i understand the Michael Vick reference.

  • Just say Nikki||

    That's part of what makes it a weird practice, yes. You expect me to explain the Trumpets?

  • GILMORE™||

    No, I was referring to the reaction by the MSNBC host, which i think is the default media-view of the matter.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Thanks, gang. If it is the case that the dude was just 'sitting while Black', then it's fucking appalling that anyone on here would mount even a milquetoast defense of his group's assault and battery.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Even if they did something to merit their removal a member of their group should not have been punched and then arrested.

  • John||

    NO they should not have. And the police's action during this is really appalling or appears to be anyway.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    The police are either lying or inept (or both), neither of which would be a surprise.

  • John||

    Or perhaps cowards who didn't want to deal with a mob scene if they arrested the wrong guy.

    This kind of shit is never going to end well.

  • John||

    No one here is saying the guy shouldn't have been arrested. Why do you think anyone is?

    I will ask you the same thing I asked Green, do you think that the left going to these rallies hoping to incite violence is a good thing? And do you think that if they succeed in that, they bear no moral responsibility for the resulting violence?

    The problem is not some dickhead who punched someone. That is what dickheads do and there are dickheads everywhere. The problem is the left going out of its way to provoke said dickheads so they can start a cycle of political violence.

    You are one of the smarter people on here. Surely you of all people can see past the "Trump is a Nazi" bullshit and understand that point.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I don't think they're going to provoke violence, or start a cycle of political violence, I think they're just attending the rallies to be a nuisance*. You give people way too much credit.

    *I do not know whether this group intended to be a nuisance, I'm referring to the overall environment of a Trump rally.

  • John||

    Some of them probably. But I don't think it takes too much sophistication to realize that if you can figure out a way to get your ass kicked at one of these rallies, the media will happily smear everyone there with the deed.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    You give them way too much credit. There is no way this, or the vast majority of the behavior at a Trump rally, is a concerted effort to provoke violence.

  • Michael||

    I watched the video and am blown away by how completely fucked up it is. It wouldn't be nearly as shocking if the cops were moving to break up a fight started by the ponytail dude and they just singled out the protesters for arrest, but those people were already in custody. I can't even begin to express just how fucked up that is. Even more fucked up is all the hand waving that seems to be going on over it in the comments above. Jesus Horatio Christ on a crutch.

  • Just say Nikki||

    Trump likes a lot of wrist action from the people sucking his cock, Michael. So the hand-waving is understandable.

  • Michael||

    The biggest head scratcher for me was the suggestion that something similar could happen to someone protesting a Bernie event. We all know just how much his enforcer goon squad relishes curb stomping provocateurs.

  • Just say Nikki||

    I know, that was adorable.

  • JWatts||

    The cops should have arrested the pony tail guy who threw the punch. It's a news worthy event and Trump deserves criticism for encouraging this type of behavior at his events.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Trump rallies are hives of assholic dipshittery. Some people attend rallies to instigate and interrupt, and they are met with a response (i assume sometimes eagerly met), which is often violent, or threatens violence.

    This time the police, partially as a way to defuse the situation, and partially because they are bumbling fools, arrested the wrong person.

    Crusty Summary!

  • Cyto||

    Soave-esque caveats: The police have no excuse for ignoring the assault. Trump should not be goading his supporters to violence. Nobody should be assaulted for attending a political opponent's event.

    There, caveats done. Now for the meat.

    This is a stupid attack, in a season of stupid attacks. Attacking Trump for what a random person in a large crowd of supporters did is stupid. Attacking Trump because a campaign aid grabbed a reporter is stupid. Attacking Trump because David Duke said you should vote for him is stupid.

    Trump has enough negatives to fill a supertanker. You don't need made-up and stupid controversies. Go with the real ones.

    On the made-up, bullshit controversy front, here's MSNBC trying to tar Trump with David Duke, only to have their on-the-scene reporter cut their knees out from under them by picking the wrong guy to ask about David Duke. Epic reaction when we cut back to the studio.

  • John||

    Trump has enough negatives to fill a supertanker. You don't need made-up and stupid controversies. Go with the real ones.

    Very true. And worse, all of the pants shitting over stupid shit like this accomplishes nothing but destroy the critics' credibility to make the real criticism. If Trump wins the election, he should send a giant thank you note to his critics.

  • Cyto||

    Oh, I forgot to add the "taking the pledge" controversy. If any person living or dead was actually offended by Trump supporters raising their hands in a pledge because they were reminded of Nazi Germany and the Nazi salute, I'll eat my hat. Maybe a couple-hundred twitter folks though it was funny and a way to poke fun at Trump and his supporters and call them Nazis, but nobody was actually offended.

    And yet Matt Lauer spent 4 questions going after Trump on a live national interview on that very point. Yet another manufactured controversy by the media.

    NBC and the Today show either concocted that one themselves, or they got their marching orders from their buddies in the DNC. No serious journalist would have thought that this was a serious question for a presidential candidate at that moment. Particularly with 3 followups. I think it says a lot more about Today than it does about Trump. Has Lauer ever asked a single follow-up of Obama or Clinton?

    And remember, I'm the guy who was certain that Trump would never get any real votes, because there's no way that the voters wouldn't be able to see that he's a complete idiot. When you managed to get the guy who has nothing better to say about Trump than "he's an idiot" to go out and defend him, you've really done an impressive piece of work.

  • John||

    No one realizes he is an idiot because all of the criticisms are this kind of idiotic shit. I don't think the people on the Today show even dislike Trump. He is a media star and they love media stars. Who they really hate is his supporters. And that is true of pretty much all of Trump's critics. The whole point is to hate his supporters. And explaining why Trump is an idiot doesn't accomplish that in nearly as satisfying a way as pretending that he is leading a movement of violent fascists.

    The whole thing is just pathetic.

  • Colonel Slanders||

    I don't remember what the response here was (if there was any at all) last week to a pretty similar incident where some Antifa protesters showed up at a Klan rally in Anaheim and before the Klansman had a chance to get out of the car the Antifa protesters attacked. It ended with a couple of the Antifa's taking some stab wounds and a few arrests made. Anyway, if your response to that was/is marginally different than your response to this then maybe ya'll should take a sec and check your premises. There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two incidents, other than the reaction of the cops, which is what should really be the issue here anyway. But since Reason has decided to go whole hog on the "Trump = Nazi" thing I guess that's where we are at the moment.

  • Michael||

    One event is the equivalent of a boneheaded bar brawl between two kooky fringe groups while the other is a rally for a mainstream presidential candidate. I think that's considerably more than a dime's worth of difference.

  • John||

    So the fact that a rally of a mainstream candidate included one guy who thought punching someone was a good idea is significant how?

    I bet I could go to any large rally on either side and if I tried hard enough could find someone I could antagonize enough to punch me.

  • Colonel Slanders||

    ^^^^This. And of course my salient comment about the cops? = completely ignored.

  • Michael||

    God, you're a fucking idiot sometimes. It's significant because IT'S A RALLY FOR A LEADING REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WHERE SOMEBODY GOT THEIR EYE DOTTED WHILE BEING ESCORTED OUT BY THE COPS.

    That doesn't mean anything to you at all? Most people attend political rallies (some even bring their kids!) with the reasonable expectation that they will be generally civil gatherings. I don't recall anything like this happening at a Cruz rally, a Rubio rally, a Bernie rally, a Kasich rally, or even a Hillary rally, yet at Trump rallies it's coming to be somewhat recurring theme with the candidate himself acting as the prime instigator.

  • You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)||

    That doesn't mean anything to you at all?

    Wrong principal in this case, Michael.

  • John||

    That doesn't mean anything to you at all?

    Since I could provoke the same reaction at any other rally, no it really doesn't. It may mean something about politics in general but it means nothing about Trump and his supporters in particular because there is nothing unique about finding someone in a large political rally who is willing to punch you if you antagonize them enough.

  • Just say Nikki||

    You claim you could, but since it's only been documented at Trump rallies, that's a bunch of BS. Go try it and prove yourself right, or deal with the fact that right now, Trump is unique in this regard.

  • John||

    Are there right wing protesters at Hillary or Bernie rallies? If there are, I haven't seen any. And what makes you think you could not find someone who could punch you at any large gathering? Are Democratic voters just more peaceful as a group than the rest of the human race?

    Lets say for the sake of argument this does say something bad about Trump supporters. Okay, explain to me what then what happened in Cologne says about Muslim refugees? Since you are apparently in the business of collective blame today, do me a favor and tell me what you think about that.

    I am going to go out on a limb and say you are going to find that different. The refugees may have raped a bunch of women but it is not like they are Trump supporters or anything.

    Right?

  • Just say Nikki||

    Are Democratic voters just more peaceful as a group than the rest of the human race?

    No, but it seems Trump supporters are more violent on average than supports of other politicians.

    Okay, explain to me what then what happened in Cologne says about Muslim refugees? Since you are apparently in the business of collective blame today, do me a favor and tell me what you think about that.

    Um, any Muslim refugee who committed those offenses, encouraged those offenses, cheered those offenses on, stood by and watched as those offenses occurred, or continues to support people who did any of the above are in the wrong. Along with any other such person who is either not Muslim or not a refugee.

  • John||

    You didn't answer my question Nikki. If you think the actions of this guy says something about Trump supporters as a group, then please explain what the actions of the refugees in Cologne says about Muslim refugees as a group?

  • Michael||

    ...it means nothing about Trump and his supporters in particular because there is nothing unique about finding someone in a large political rally who is willing to punch you if you antagonize them enough.

    Yeah, and I'm also sure that at just about any other rally this same person would be bold enough to lay an uppercut on you while you're in police custody.

  • SugarFree||

    And, of course, this isn't the first time Trump supporters accosted someone protesting--or who they thought were protesting--Dear Leader.

  • John||

    And they should be arrested too. And it is also not the first time leftist protesters have showed up hoping that would happen.

    It is almost like my initial point that the left needs to stop doing this and that it is going to end badly for everyone is a reasonable one or something.

    But you don't admit reasonable points anymore. You once did but not anymore. At least not from me.

    So, be sure to call me Tony and a troll in response to this post. That is your move these days.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    UPDATE: WRAL.com reports that the suckerpuncher has been identified as 78-year-old John McGraw. He has been charged with disorderly conduct as well as assault and battery.

  • Michael||

    That dude definitely deserves his own tagline.

    "Better watch out, son! John McGraw'll sock a paw to your craw!"

  • John||

    don't fuck with old people.

  • Colonel Slanders||

    Well, that doesn't say much for the victim here....getting clocked out by a 78 year old man.....

  • John||

    All of these retards have convinced themselves this is the new brownshirts and the best they can do is a 76 year old man sucker punching someone at a rally.

    IT is the sorriest most pathetic display I have ever seen. These people are no smarter and no less delusional and emotional than the half wits over at Salon.

  • Ken Shultz||

    The story here says they were shouting shit at Trump when the speech started.

    "Jones said he and four friends — a “diverse” group that included a white woman, a Muslim, and a gay man, had gone to the rally as a “social experiment.” He said the woman with them started shouting once Trump’s speech began.

    “She shouted, but at the same time, they were shouting too,” Jones, a 26-year-old inventory associate, said. “Everyone was shouting, too. … No one in our group attempted to get physical.”

    So, yeah, they went to the speech to be disruptive, they started yelling shit when the speech started, and they were being escorted out of the building by the sheriffs for being disruptive.

    And that's when one of them was sucker punched.

    From elsewhere in the story, there's this quote:

    "The protester stumbles away, and then is detained by a number of the men in uniforms, who handcuff him while he is on the ground.

    “Chill, chill!” an onlooker says. “You don’t gotta grab him like that!”

    Look at that last quote.

    If an some angry old man popping a protester for being disruptive is evidence of Brownshirt thuggery from Trump and his supporters, why doesn't a Trump supporter admonishing the police for their unnecessary brutality against the same protester stand as evidence that Trump supporters are Muslim tolerant, African-American loving, gay accepting, peaceniks?

  • Ken Shultz||

    Here's the link to those quotes:

    http://tinyurl.com/gs6wpcm

  • Brian||

    This guy gets politics.

    Government is just violence that tries to gain legitimacy by the grandness of its scale.

  • The Other Libertarian||

    Snowflake to the left of me,
    Troglodytes to the right.
    Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

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