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Trump Will—and Should—Declare the North Korea Summit a Success

Trump may not fly back to Washington with a denuclearization deal in hand, but the summit could still succeed if it breaks the diplomatic ice and reduces the probability of a horrific military calamity.

Patrice Lapointe/ZUMA Press/NewscomPatrice Lapointe/ZUMA Press/NewscomThe table is set. The translators are ready. After a day of taking selfies and touring Singapore's trendiest hot spots, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un is ready to shake the hand of a sitting American president for the first time.

President Donald Trump is clearly basking in all of the glory that this historical summit has to offer. But those who may be anticipating a grand bargain between Washington and Pyongyang that closes the North Korea nuclear file for good shouldn't put the cart before the horse.

Reports describing difficult pre-summit negotiations at the working level about the contents of a joint communique—even on the most basic question, like what the term "denuclearization" actually means—offer evidence that the result of the Trump-Kim meeting will be modest. And that's OK.

In lowering expectations over the last week from an immediate nuclear disarmament deal to the start of a U.S.-North Korea relationship, Trump seemingly has no grand illusions about what a 45-minute-long meeting with Kim Jong-un can achieve.

At best, we can hope for a joint statement signed by Trump and Kim that spells out in general terms what both men are hoping to accomplish and how they intend to accomplish it, along with perhaps a grand gesture, like a promise to open a U.S. embassy—or a McDonald's—in Pyongyang.

The opening bid from the United States is the full and comprehensive dismantlement of North Korea's nuclear weapons infrastructure, from the warheads stored in the underground depots to the facilities that churn out the enriched uranium and the reprocessed plutonium. It also includes a freeze, rollback, and elimination of Pyongyang's intercontinental ballistic missiles, unimpeded international inspections of North Korea's declared and undeclared nuclear facilities, and clear, concrete actions upfront to test Kim's sincerity.

The objective for the North Koreans is just as clear: an end to Washington's "hostile policy" of diplomatic isolation, economic sanctions, and military muscle flexing; the normalization of diplomatic relations with the U.S.; a formal peace treaty ending the Korean War armistice; and a security guarantee from the Trump administration that regime change and military action is off the table.

Squaring those two positions has confounded the efforts of some deeply experienced and knowledgeable diplomats across three presidencies.

Kim Jong-un, like his father, does not yet trust American commitments, particularly after the U.S. promised political and economic benefits to Libya's Muammar al-Qaddafi similar to what it is now promising the North Koreans. The Kim dynasty is on constant guard against what it perceives as bad-faith American negotiating and sinister American motives. To believe Kim would agree to relinquish his nuclear arsenal—the greatest deterrent for an international campaign to depose his regime—on words alone, or consent to immediately shipping his program out of the country as National Security Advisor John Bolton suggested, were always ludicrous propositions.

The odds of aeparating Kim and his nuclear stockpile are somewhere between impossible and highly unlikely. If it will ever be possible, it will require a long diplomatic process, steely resolve, patience in the face of adversity, and a willingness to make the difficult trade-offs necessary.

Unless the meeting with Kim goes poorly, President Trump will—and should—declare the event a success during his post-summit press conference. The foreign policy establishment here in Washington may deride it as substance-free theater or ridiculous boasting of little consequence, but they would once again be wrong. A meeting of the minds is the first step of what one would hope is a continuous, uninterrupted channel of communication between two long-time adversaries.

The North Koreans will still have their missiles and nukes, and the Americans will still have their sanctions. But no one should have believed for even a second that the reality would ever be any different.

President Trump may not fly back to Washington with a denuclearization deal in hand, but the summit with Kim could still be classified a success if it breaks the diplomatic ice, results in more meetings between U.S. and North Korean negotiators, and decreases the probability of a horrific and foolish military calamity. At best, we are on the road towards a legitimate diplomatic process. At worst, the Trump administration should prepare to deter a nuclear-armed North Korea for as long—if not longer—as Washington deterred a nuclear-armed Soviet Union.

In the end, anything that moves the ball toward peace on the Korean Peninsula and away from a preventative war is indeed a victory for America, Koreans, and the world.

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  • Ron||

    What ever deal he makes it will probably be better than the deal Obama made with Iran

  • Tony||

    A deal whose defects you can no doubt summarize cogently.

  • wef||

    It was unsustainable.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Tony, if you want a summary of everything that went wrong with the Iran deal, you need go no further than one of your democrats owners, Sen. Chuck Schumer.....

    https://tinyurl.com/hn455zf

    Schumer was right. Everything in his statement came true. So there you have it Tony.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    There is zero chance of that because North Korea will still have nukes for years and Iran could not obtain any for over a decade.

    The Dotard is a shitty negotiator - he has passed one lackluster corporate tax cut bill in all this time.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Aw Butt, Trump getting Fat Boy-Un to meet him in Singapore literally makes him the best negotiator ever with North Korea.

    No other North Korean head of state has ever met a US president before.

    I know its scary when all the evidence shows that Trump is by far the best president in over 70 years, except Reagan. Trump will probably will be better than Reagan too before Trump's first term is over.

  • Fk_Censorship||

    Reagan ended the Cold War and brought the end of the Soviet Union. That's pretty hard to beat.

  • JunkScienceIsJunk||

    No other North Korean head of state has ever met a US president before.

    Jimmy Carter negotiated a meeting. Wasn't his fault the bro died the day before it happened. Clinton worked a deal.

    Trump isn't that special. But I give him credit for not fucking it up. Based on what Kim said, it sounds like he did a good job, but let's see what the deal looks like.

  • MoreFreedom||

    "The Dotard is a shitty negotiator - he has passed one lackluster corporate tax cut bill in all this time."

    Aren't you aware that neither the RINOs that control the GOP, nor the Democrats really care to implement anything Trump campaigned on? The RINOs don't even want to vote on anything, because it exposes where they really stand on the issues - but they're happy to vote for/against something if it's not going to become law. Every GOP politician promised to repeal Obamacare, yet they didn't. The last thing they want to do is cut spending.

    Trump isn't negotiating for what he knows he can't get. And Trump has deregulated extensively via executive order, given Congress' propensity to allow the executive branch to write the laws - it's just they didn't expect he'd be president. There's no point in Trump stirring up a hornets nest in Congress while he's dealing with Mueller and the Resistance. I write this, having voted for Johnson, and as a supporter of Reason.

  • Sevo||

    "At worst, the Trump administration should prepare to deter a nuclear-armed North Korea for as long—if not longer—as Washington deterred a nuclear-armed Soviet Union."

    I'm more optimistic:
    The USSR had vast reserves of wealth, even if it didn't have any money; not so NK. It also had satellites adding to that wealth in some degree.
    NK has a population barely above starvation in much of the country, including (we now know) a good bit of the military. And one (sort of) ally.
    That is not a set of conditions likely to be stable in the long term.

  • Scarecrow Repair & Chippering||

    Unstable regimes are just that, unstable. How and when they will fall is anybody's guess. All you can do is try to make them more stable, and try to set up cushions to smooth the fall.

    One of the worst things would be to hint at trying their leaders for war crimes. All that will do is make them more desperate at avoiding capture, which means making sure everybody knows they are going to bring their enemies down with them. That's why despots get a cushy retirement under virtual house arrest. Even if Bolton shuts up and everyone else keeps mum on the topic, Qaddafi's example is still fresh in everyone's memory. That was one of Obama's stupidest moves, just one more reason for revoking his Peace Prize.

  • Sevo||

    "One of the worst things would be to hint at trying their leaders for war crimes"

    In this case, "war crimes", hell. The best guesses I've read was purposeful, outright death by starvation of 1/10 of the population, and who knows how many collateral deaths from disease, etc.
    But I firmly agree that the scumbag is going to have to go free if we want those poor people to ever live in prosperity.

  • Nardz||

    The Libya assault and deposition of Qaddafi was an unbelievably terrible decision, seriously detrimental to the prospects of any future diplomatic (rather than martial) resolution, rivaled only by the later Iran "deal" to harm US credibility.
    Of course, we also reneged with Russia, after they agreed to peaceably dissolve the Soviet Union, when NATO expanded to former Warsaw Pact nations...
    Ah, the pitfalls of democracy.
    So, while I agree that this is a positive step and Trump has played it well (ducks), I have to wonder how NK can feel assured by any agreement. This is a somewhat separate question from whether they should make an agreement, as their backs are against the wall.
    Thanks to NO, HRC, and the "moderate" Libya rebels complete disarmament seems like it should be off the table. What can take it's place?

  • Fk_Censorship||

    Those former Warsaw Pact countries requested to be in NATO, it's not like the US gobbled them up like the Soviet Union had done.

  • dan'o en barrel||

    A treaty signed by congress that can't be erased by the next executive branch.

  • MoreFreedom||

    Obama lied not only to Americans, "You can keep your plan", he and Clinton also went to war against Ghadaffi and destabilized the country; thus, he lied to a foreign leader. One thing Obama was good at, was lying, and painting the USA as a country of liars. I don't blame Kim for not trusting the US, but I believe he trusts Trump, but he knows Trump will be out of office in 2024 at the latest.

    Kim has to free up his country so he can feed his huge army - if he doesn't he very likely will fall to a coup, because his Generals know they can't count on the loyalty of their troops if they can't feed them. Kim doesn't have much time.

  • JunkScienceIsJunk||

    Kim seems open to doing exactly that. At least as of April's declaration. We may be witnessing a pretty substantial transition in that regime. The skeptics disagree, of course.

  • Hugh Akston||

    NK is subsidized by China. They will continue to prop NK up as long as they can because they don't want war, instability, or a flood of refugees on their border.

    Of course China is also kind of a paper tiger, so we'll see how long that lasts.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    We can continue to pressure them not to do business with NK. And China needs us more than we need them.

  • BYODB||

    Not to mention that, unlike Russia, we could glass the entire surface area of their country and have nukes to spare so 'deterring' them arguably shouldn't be that hard.

    Unless, of course, China doesn't like that notion. Which might account for some of those proposed Chinese tariffs, yet I note no mention of that in this article. Curious.

  • Sevo||

    "Not to mention that, unlike Russia, we could glass the entire surface area of their country and have nukes to spare so 'deterring' them arguably shouldn't be that hard."

    No one supports the use of the nukes to end WWII more than I, but I have a bit of trouble vaporizing 25M people because of several hundred slime-bags.
    Plus, I agree that the ChiComs would not be pleased.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Your second to last sentence is a mess of a contradiction.

  • General Skarr's Prize Petunias||

    Not really. He's saying that he supports the usage of nukes to end WWII, likely because of the general "Japanese fighting spirit" (seriously, they were training kindergarteners to fight with sticks if it came to that; an invasion would have been bloody and brutal) and the fact that WWII probably had wide support among the Japanese public, especially when it came to defending the land of the rising sun; however, launching nukes at North Korea would in his eyes be overkill, especially since it's a despotic regime that doesn't really have the "consent of the governed" that the Japanese Emperor had (at least, as far as we can see; it's tough to tell when it comes to North Korea).

    Unless I misinterpreted him–did I, Sevo?

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Sometimes one has to commit an act so,horrific that it will silence the world, to stop an endless war. That it actually took a second bomb to provoke surrender is further proof of that.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    This pretty much sums up my view of the situation. It's pretty clear that un values playing the role of world leader and Trump is giving him that at no real cost. It would be frankly foolish of him to give up his nukes at this point and he won't. But even baby steps towards normal relations with NK could make war less likely and might provide some economic relief for the North Korean people, the real victims here. I just don't see a downside.

  • Scarecrow Repair & Chippering||

    My selfish desire is for this to succeed simply to make the Nobel Peace Prize squirm. They've selected some real doozies over the years, but giving one to Obama based on campaign speeches alone, and then to not repudiate it after all his anti-peace moves, well, they deserve to squirm.

  • Gaear Grimsrud||

    I'm pretty sure Obama will get credit somehow. TDS is a helluva drug.

  • Knutsack||

    Oh, no. The credit will go to the man sitting across the table from Trump. He'll deserve the prize just for negotiating with Trump according to the committee. That will be true TDS.

  • Sevo||

    "...He'll deserve the prize just for negotiating with Trump according to the committee...."

    Yep. And those millions starved to death? Eggs and omelets.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    The Nobel Peace Prize is a sad joke since they gave it to Obama based on nothing, and then Obama proceeding to damage the cause of peace.

    I doubt Trump gives a shot about receiving it.

  • Ken Shultz||

    There was also the times they gave it to Arafat and Kissinger.

    They never gave it to Gandhi.

  • Praveen R.||

    The obama prize was stupid. But is that really on your outrage meter after guys like Kissinger got it in the past?

  • MoreFreedom||

    Kim might very well give up his nukes. His troops, and their families, are starving. A NK general, knowing hist troops are abandoning you because you can't feed them, might decide a coup is best. Kim is running out of money and supplies, and needs to feed his troops soon. I'm sure Trump is telling Kim he could make his country a lot better (he even suggested beach side condos, having been in the real estate development business) and gain the real love of his people for bringing more prosperity to them. That will require more freedom for his people.

    Freedom is what made the USA prosperous and the envy, and preferred destination for immigrants, of the world.

  • Hunthjof||

    "The opening bid from the United States is the full and comprehensive dismantlement of North Korea's nuclear weapons infrastructure, from the warheads stored in the underground depots to the facilities that churn out the enriched uranium and the reprocessed plutonium. It also includes a freeze, rollback, and elimination of Pyongyang's intercontinental ballistic missiles, unimpeded international inspections of North Korea's declared and undeclared nuclear facilities, and clear, concrete actions upfront to test Kim's sincerity.

    The objective for the North Koreans is just as clear: an end to Washington's "hostile policy" of diplomatic isolation, economic sanctions, and military muscle flexing; the normalization of diplomatic relations with the U.S.; a formal peace treaty ending the Korean War armistice; and a security guarantee from the Trump administration that regime change and military action is off the table."

    Umm isn't that what has been the plan from the beginning?

  • Jerryskids||

    I've seen Susan Rice saying that the summit won't be a success unless and until the Norks give up their nukes (she didn't add, like Obama succeeded in getting Iran to give up their nukes) as if making progress toward that end is nothing and as if extracting an unverifiable and unenforceable promise is a success. At the other end, there's Lindsay Graham claiming the summit's already a success because Trump has accomplished something no other President in history has managed to accomplish, talks with North Korea. He didn't add that this is something Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Charlemagne, Napoleon, all the Kings of Spain and all the Tsars of Russia combined had never managed to accomplish either.

  • General Skarr's Prize Petunias||

    Hold on, hold on. A dude named Lindsay managed to get elected?

    Also, has anybody ever given a fuck about the King of Spain at any point pre 1400 or post 1700?

  • JFree||

    because Trump has accomplished something no other President in history has managed to accomplish, talks with North Korea.

    That has been NORK's goal for 60 years. NOT the goal of any Prez. ALL the benefits of that direct meet accrue to North Korea.

  • Colossal Douchebag||

    Promise nothing, offer nothing, ask nothing. Give them a phone number they can call. "The publicity's yours to keep. You're welcome."

    That'll put their heads in the right place.

  • Hugh Akston||

    That does seem like a good way for the Koreans to handle Trump.

  • Jayburd||

    They watched Stormy movies.

  • MoreFreedom||

    If Kim does nothing, he'll be overthrown by one or more of his generals. He needs to feed his soldiers before they turn on him. How would you feel about your political leaders, not providing you enough food to keep your weight up, or feed your children? Kim can't follow in his father's footsteps, because they've run out of money.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Rumor is that they will compare hand size right off the bat to see whose hands are smaller.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    I am sure they both did that mentally when they shook hands.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    PB, we should get you and Tony together with Reverend Arty to see which of you has the tiniest excuse for a brain. Of course this will involve compulsory vivisection (no anesthetic of course) to be accurate.

  • VinniUSMC||

    Are you taking bets? What are the odds?

  • Ken Shultz||

    "This was the week that changed the world, as what we have said in that Communique is not nearly as important as what we will do in the years ahead to build a bridge across 16,000 miles and 22 years of hostilities which have divided us in the past. And what we have said today is that we shall build that bridge."

    ----Nixon in China, 1972

    The Vietnam was was still raging. We were still in the middle of the Cold War. I don't know that we got anything substantial from Nixon's visit but vague promises of pursuing peace. Anybody might have said Nixon was full of shit and grandiosity with that statement.

    Looking back, it was probably the most important diplomatic, foreign policy mission since the Yalta conference. The Iron Curtain is history, but the seeds Nixon planted with China on that visit are still driving our economy today.

    Maybe this will all be hype. Maybe it'll be nothing. Maybe it'll be a big deal.

    Let's hope for the best.

  • Nardz||

    Agreed, and it's the only example I can think of in which we didn't reneg immediately afterwards.
    Hopefully China can guide them toward their example rather than that of Libya.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Yes, let us hope for peace and diplomacy. I hope Trump is successful.

  • ||

    President Donald Trump is clearly basking in all of the glory that this historical summit has to offer.

    If the president wanted to make a big deal about a summit with a country with a thousandth the GDP of the US, he should have just met with the leader of Iceland. I hear it's beautiful this time of year.

  • General Skarr's Prize Petunias||

    If the president wanted to make a big deal about meeting with a guy whose penis is half his size, he could've just met with Obama. I hear he's not doing anything this year.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Yeah, because they're meeting about differences in GDP.......

    Did you strain your that little 15 watt oven bulb in your head to come up with your oh so clever comment?

    It would have made more sense if Iceland had nukes and repeatedly threaten to use them.

  • JFree||

    Iceland has a very successful Pirate Party. And pirates are far more of a threat to freedom of the seas and global peace thru trade than Nork nukes.

  • ||

    It's a comment that one probably should not bask in the glory of meeting someone because they have nuclear weapons. Meeting North Korea's leaders should never have been a big deal, just as meeting Cuba's leaders should never have been a big deal.

    Presidents can simply say that they are not meeting leaders of antagonistic nations in order to give them prestige: they are meeting because leaders of antagonistic nations should meet.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I doubt the Trump-Kim Tinder date will accomplish anything but you can bet The Dotard will declare it the best deal in human history.

  • General Skarr's Prize Petunias||

    Is it Tinder or Grindr?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The Dotard said he would know within a minute if would swipe left or right.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Answer the question. TINDER OR GRINDR?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Grindr for dictators.

  • Sevo||

    "Grindr for dictators."

    You and that hag lost, the dictator wanna-be is out of office.

  • Sevo||

    "I doubt the Trump-Kim Tinder date will accomplish anything but you can bet The Dotard will declare it the best deal in human history."

    It's already accomplished more than any other POTUS has managed, but slimy losers aren't about to admit it.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    What? The photo-op that other President's didn't want Lil Kim to have for propaganda?

    You are certainly gullible, little bitch.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|6.11.18 @ 10:03PM|#
    "You are certainly gullible, little bitch."

    You certainly hope someone is a stupid as you, scumbag.

  • Oli||

    What exactly? Going soft on denuclearization and closing it with a handshake?

  • Elias Fakaname||

    I'm sure he will accomplish more than Alabama ever did. But please continue to regale us with how awesome your loser party is and how much better that fucking Hag would have been.

    Because we believe you PB.

  • ||

    Am I the only worried NK will try to assassinate Trump? I keep thinking about that NK assassin that killed KJU's brother by blowing powder in his face. Kim is a complete psycho.

    I am hoping for the best! But I just don't trust little rocket man at all.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yes.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Butt, evidently Fat Boy-Un brought his own toilet to Singapore.

    Not only does this illustrate that he pees and poos but Rocketman is also way out of his league if he thinks the West cares what is in his poo.

  • General Skarr's Prize Petunias||

    If the Norks assassinated Trump, not only would we declare war on North Korea, China would stand the fuck aside and let it happen. Hell, they might actually help.

    China does NOT want war with the U.S., and if North Korea is moronic enough to attempt an assassination, they'd disown NK.

  • ||

    I think you are right. I still am worried though. Trying to predict what Kim is thinking or will do seems hard. He is not rational.

  • Nardz||

    Yes, there's some worry. Also, the other way.
    But everything In has done in his career has been completely rational from an objective (That is, amoral) standpoint.
    He's not crazy. He's not dumb. Neither is Trump.
    Irrational would be doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results (as the media would have it). This is certainly not that.

  • Sevo||

    "Irrational" could also include starving 2+M of your population to death; no repetition required.

  • Ariki||

    What if 2m had to die so 10m could be fed?
    In that case killing 2m would be quite rational wouldn't it?

    I don't think hes stupid but i find this sudden change of heart suspicious.

    Personally I think the NK nuclear operation has suffered some type of disaster, maybe the death of a large number of crucial scientists, or someone accidentally formatted the wrong hard drive, so they can no longer develop their weapons in the same time frame.

    Rather than admit this failure Kim is trying to save face with his people by becoming the glorious leader who defeated the evil USA with his mighty mind and negotiating skills.

  • JunkScienceIsJunk||

    Well, there was the "mountain" issue. That seemed to coincide with the recent developments. Although I wouldn't call any of this a "change of heart". They seemed to have been down a pretty consistent path since the cold war, and they have consistently reached out to the US to make a deal, dating at least back to Jimmy Carter.

  • Robot Centaur||

    Ya, but what if IRAN assassinates Kim, and makes it look like USA. WWIII in 2.5 seconds.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    Only if the rest of the regime wants to die by fire a few seconds after that. I'm guessing they might want to live.

  • Yellow Tony||

    I read this as "assimilate Trump." This would be crazy because nuclear weapons pale in comparison to a NK backed by the fucking Borg.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Larry Kudlow has just had a heart attack and is in Walter Reed Howpital. I heard the Trump White House was a shitty place to work (from General Kelly) but that is some fast reaction.

  • Sevo||

    Yeah, scumbag, he could be sick with the flu and assholes like you would blameTrump.
    Fuck off, you pathetic excuse for humanity.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Where is the poster 'Sevo is my Bitch'?

    He/she had a certain je ne sais quoi.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug|6.11.18 @ 9:32PM|#
    "Where is the poster 'Sevo is my Bitch'?
    He/she had a certain je ne sais quoi."

    Fuck off, you pathetic excuse for humanity.

  • Sevo ls My Bitch||

    Palin's Buttplug|6.11.18 @ 9:32PM|#

    Where is the poster 'Sevo is my Bitch'?

    He/she had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    Fuck off, you pathetic excuse for a human being.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Sevo is everyone's bitch.

  • Sevo||

    "Sevo is everyone's bitch."

    You are the world's slimy piece of shit.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    You guys are my second most favorite tragicslly unconsummated couple, after Johneo and Tonyet.

  • Sevo||

    Chipper Morning Baculum|6.11.18 @ 10:22PM|#
    "You guys are my second most favorite tragicslly unconsummated couple, after Johneo and Tonyet."

    And you are an irrelevancy.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    I don't respond to comments like that.

  • Yellow Tony||

    What about this one: I find you attractive.

  • Ariki||

    Aren't you Sarah's bitch by definition butt plug?

  • Yellow Tony||

    Buttplug dictates when Palin can shit. So I'd say he'd firmly be in control of her.
    Man, this thread is making me horny.

  • Elias Fakaname||

    I would love to meet PB and Tony, just to watch them apologize all over themselves nervously. Hoping that I will not deal out a thrashing for their continued treasonous impertinence.

  • Bubba Jones||

    Wasn't there a bet here about whether this meeting would occur?

  • Sevo||

    If turd was a part of it, you can forget ever collecting.

  • Sevo||

    For those of us with an aversion to vids, The Guardian is running a site with regular updates:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/
    2018/jun/12/trump-kim-summit-meeting-
    singapore-us-president-north-korea-kim-jong-un-

    So far, it's nicey-nicey.

  • General Skarr's Prize Petunias||

  • Incomprehensible Bitching||

    NK is a terrorist country with a terrorist leader. We don't negotiate with terrorists! Ever!

    Trump has shaken hands with the devil because the devil knows a devil, and whoa be the country lead by the devil!

    Mercy! Have mercy on us, Jesus! Please, spare us the Trump/Un world!

  • Sevo||

    turd gets out-turded:

    "The Guardian view on the US-North Korea summit: realism should trump hope"
    [...]
    "It is a mistake to see the Singapore meeting between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un as a negotiation. This is a show, put together by two leaders who have very different aims for the talks"
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/
    2018/jun/11/the-guardian-view-on-the-us-
    north-korea-summit-realism-should-trump-hope

    Yep, no matter what happens, it's a failure 'cause Trump.

  • DajjaI||

    We're all going to die aren't we?

  • Yellow Tony||

    As long as we die together (preferably naked), everything will be fine.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

  • Yellow Tony||

    Not bad, Chipper, not bad. I'm surprised that this band is relatively recent. Though maybe I shouldn't be because Sweden is a country that pumps out quite a few good rock bands. That artwork and deliciously grand but sadly brief introduction is helping me sustain my hard-on.
    (Also, you might like this.)

  • Sevo||

    MSNBC heard from:

    "Trump Ignores Devastating Human Rights Abuses In North Korea"
    [...]
    "Trump will not bring up North Korean human rights atrocities at a summit with Kim Jong-un in Singapore, to keep the focus on denuclearization."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fINxKoIEqxc

    Yep, that darn Trump won't sabotage the talks by mentioning the obvious! Shame on him!

  • Yellow Tony||

    I guess they don't remember WWII and the exoneration of many high-level government officials of the Axis powers like the fucking emperor of Japan. Concessions have to be made.

  • Sevo||

    Yellow Tony|6.11.18 @ 11:42PM|#
    "I guess they don't remember WWII and the exoneration of many high-level government officials of the Axis powers like the fucking emperor of Japan. Concessions have to be made."

    Look up-thread. We can extract revenge on the scumbag, OR we can do our best to confer prosperity on those poor people who have suffered under the Kims.
    The alternative (AFAIK) is not an option. Please post how that might come about if I'm wrong.

  • Yellow Tony||

    If I posted about how much I like eating my own smegma, will that be okay?

  • Intelligent Mr Toad||

    Instead of opening a McDonald's in Pyongyang, we should open a Nathan's. It could serve hot-dogs made from real dogs.

  • Yellow Tony||

    I think that if countries want to consummate a deal, their leaders need to have a round of hot, gritty, and passionate sex in a blow-up pool full of semen contributed by each country's servicemen. This way you know each side is committed.
    Imagine: Trump and Kim rubbing their fat bodies together; Kim's smooth skin being grated by Trump's crusty, mature complexion; their fingers exploring each other's bodies by entering orifices and sliding in crevices.
    Imagine.
    Just fucking imagine.

  • General Skarr's Prize Petunias||

    dammit pansexual alt-dimension me

    i'll be back in ten minutes

  • Yellow Tony||

    Ten minutes? Go home, grandpa.

  • Jayburd||

    Thars hookers in Singapore. Could ruin the deal.

  • David Nolan Michael Hihn||

    *jacks furiously*

  • Yellow Tony||

    Let me help you with that, friend: I have a dildo (with flames painted on!) ready to go.

  • Eidde||

    "Just fucking imagine."

    Oh, good, I was just thinking I'd like to abstain from food for the next few days, and I wanted something to inspire me to stop eating.

  • Sevo||

    From the Guardian:
    They will be eating:
    Starters
    Traditional prawn cocktail served with avocado salad
    Green mango kerabu with honey lime dressing and fresh octopus
    "Oiseon" Korean stuffed cucumber

    Main course
    Beef short rib confit, served with potato dauphinois and steamed broccolini, red wine sauce on the side
    Combination of sweet and sour crispy pork and Yangzhou fried rice with homemade XO chilli sauce
    "Daegu jorim" soy braised cod fish with radish, Asian vegetables

    Desserts
    Dark chocolate tartlet ganache
    Haagendazs vanilla ice cream with cherry coulis
    Tropezienne

    Trump can eat this without guilt; there is nothing there which a middle-class US family couldn't have on a night out without missing the mortgage (right, commie kid?).
    But from all I've read, there is no 'middle-class' in NK who could afford that, unless you are claiming the privileged few in Pyongyang are 'middle class'.
    Hey, Junkcsciencejunk? Where did you go?

  • Echospinner||

    Thanks for that servo.

    The menu I have been wondering about since the start.

    Kim and Trump are famous eaters. Food is as important as missiles here.

    Trump will skip the octopus but the short ribs and ice cream works.

    Already we are waiting for the fast food American industry to invade North Korea.

    I go for the gradual approach. Start with KFC because nobody on earth can resist fried chicken. Then you bring in McDonalds. The better stuff can follow. The rest results in whirled peas.

  • Echospinner||

    Sevo.

  • Eidde||

    He always talks during movies.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Beef short rib confit, served with potato dauphinois and steamed broccolini, red wine sauce on the side"

    Hell yeah!

  • Eidde||

    "And now a serving of the North Korean national dish - nothing!"

    SUPPLEMENTAL JOKE: "And now for a serving of the American national dish - Jessica Alba!"

  • Eidde||

    I'm so sorry, Jessica, you still love me, don't you?

  • Jayburd||

    True success is winning a set of steak knives- https://r2ak.com/payouts/steak-knives/

  • hurts_donut||

    We're looking at the first step to freeing 26 million people. And some people are still bitching. If we have to let one POS live to free 26 million people, so be it.

  • Yellow Tony||

    That's right: we're one step closer.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I'm looking forward to seeing what's in the document they signed, but I remain cautiously optimistic. If we can get Democrats and other prudes to get past the idea that working with icky people is okay, so long as doing so is in our interests, then a resumption of trade is likely to pay big dividends.

    Before China joined the WTO, the Democrats (with union backing) used to hem and haw over granting Most Favored Nation trade status to China. Notice how important trade with China has been for our security--nuclear weapons or no nuclear weapons. They used to fund Maoist rebels all over the world, but now they're a force for stability. The fear of anything that might disrupt trade with the U.S. (cause a recession and stoke unrest) is probably as much of a deterrent to the CCP using nukes as the threat of the U.S. military.

    I hope Kim agrees to denuclearize anyway, and I understand that sanctions can be a means to that end. Regardless of how the brinkmanship over their nuclear program pans out, I hope we can develop a trade relationship with North Korea anyway. China has nukes, and there's no good reason why our relationship with North Korea can't be like our relationship with China--unless you ask pearl clutching Democrats or gasping, Pollyanna neocons.

    . . . both of whom seem to think we should only trade with the sweetest, most precious governments in the whole wide world.

  • IceTrey||

    FDR worked with Stalin and he's the second ickiest guy in history.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, people forget that.

    Sure, mistakes were made in the aftermath of World War II, but letting Stalin help us defeat the Nazis and hep us clear the Japanese out of China wasn't one of them.

    We made big mistakes (and took risks) with some icky people during the Cold War, but some of that collaboration with icky people paid big dividends, too. We might not have won the Cold War the way we did (without a nuclear warhead being launched at us) if we hadn't shook hands with some icky people.

    I'm open to the argument that the cost of collaborating with certain dictators in certain situations is not in America's best interests, but that should be the substance of the debate--whether doing something is in our interests--not whether so and so is an icky person.

    Our recent collaboration with Putin destroyed ISIS in Syria without any need for a U.S. invasion a la Iraq. If shaking hands with Putin or Stalin or the Fat Kid in North Korea is in our best interests, then Obama, Hillary Clinton, and John McCain should all be ashamed of themselves--their prudish behavior was hurting American security interests.

  • Fk_Censorship||

    You never know what the alternative would have been. Maybe collaborating with Stalin led to the Cold War and the destruction of half of Europe and a number of other horrible things that could have been avoided had they let him and Hitler mutually destroy each other's capabilities. Maybe collaborating with Stalin was not such a good idea. Maybe allowing a Soviet empire to get so powerful and win the propaganda war was a bad idea, which has negative effects on our lives to this day. There's no way of proving your point (or the contrary).

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Aide: Mr. Obama, it's the Nobel committee, they're asking if you still have your Nobel Prize, and how quickly you could ship it back.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Funny how total capitulation doesn't always lead to the most peaceful outcomes.

    I suspect Trump withdrawing from the Iran deal may have contributed, to whatever extent, to the North Korean fat kid jumping on board the denuclearization express.

    When he saw Obama lifting sanctions without Iran promising to stop enriching their own uranium and if he'd seen Trump leaving that deal in place, why wouldn't he think he could get the same deal the Iranians did?

  • JunkScienceIsJunk||

    On the other hand, it also demonstrated how partisan these deals are. He probably realizes that in about 6 years, or maybe even 2, the US government will start talking about ending the deal.

  • DrHubert||

    Amazing MSM esp CNN & ACOSTA continue eith their fske news

    Both hate AMERICA being sucessful as their rhetoric about the historical U.S./NOKO AGREEMENT

  • Praveen R.||

    Many of those hypocrites who bashed Obama for opening up to Cuba are now praising Trump for being chummy with a much worse dictator.

    Having said that, let's hope for the best. Giving Kim the "presitge" of being part of a summit like this is not a big deal.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I don'y know whom you mean by "many of those hypocrites", but the opposition to opening up to Cuba mostly came from 1) people in the GOP, who were concerned about enraging Cuban-Americans in Florida, a crucial swing state, ans 2) Democrats and neocons, both of whom are obsessive prudes to the point that they'd sell U.S. interests short rather than shake hands with someone unseemly.

    If there's anybody less anti-libertarian in the mainstream than progressives and neocons, I don't know whom that could be. I don't remember seeing many here fault Obama for reestablishing relations with Cuba--despite our disgust with their totalitarian regime and our disgust with communism.

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