Nobody Won the War in Gaza
The same ceasefire agreement was almost signed in May 2024. Instead, the pointless violence continued for several more months—at Americans’ expense.

The Israeli government and the Palestinian armed group Hamas have agreed to a ceasefire and hostage deal, President-elect Donald Trump announced on Wednesday. The ceasefire is a much-needed breather for the people of the region after 15 months of some of the most brutal violence seen in modern history. The deal also goes to show how pointless extending the war was—and what a large role U.S. power played in it.
Israel and Hamas will reportedly exchange captives as Israeli troops pull out of Gaza, the Palestinian enclave, in a three-stage deal beginning on January 19. It is basically the same framework that Hamas, Israel, and the United States had all agreed to in May 2024. But over the following months, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu walked back his agreement, stating that he "will not stop the war and leave Hamas standing in Gaza," and expanded the war into Lebanon.
President Joe Biden tacitly endorsed the "de-escalation through escalation" strategy, flooded Israel with weapons at U.S. taxpayer expense, and even deployed U.S. troops onto Israeli soil. In November 2024, the Hamas negotiating team was kicked out of Qatar, reportedly because of Biden administration pressure. Thousands of Lebanese and Palestinians were killed. And for what?
Hundreds of Israeli troops have died since May 2024, as well as several Israeli hostages who would have been released under this week's deal, including at least one American. Hamas has nearly recovered from its military losses by recruiting new fighters, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken declared in his farewell speech on Tuesday. As Israeli troops withdraw, Hamas fighters will once again be in charge of Gaza.
Despite his talk of a World War II–style total victory, Netanyahu was not offering Palestinians a World War II-style surrender. There would be no Marshall Plan, and no new government in Gaza to replace Hamas and rebuild Palestinian society. Instead, Netanyahu's government was betting—and some cabinet ministers publicly said so—that they could physically remove the Palestinian population instead.
Biden administration envoy David Satterfield reportedly agreed with expelling Palestinians at first. When neighboring Arab countries refused to go along with mass expulsions, Israeli government circles passed around a plan for herding Palestinians into tent camps and subjecting them to forced reeducation. On the ground, Israeli troops reportedly handed over control of food supplies to disorganized Palestinian gangsters.
With no alternative, Hamas will fill the vacuum by default. But the war was not a victory for Hamas, either. Hamas will rule over a traumatized population living in bombed-out wreckage. The dead have still not been properly counted; the official death toll of 46,600 may have missed 40 percent of violent deaths, and it doesn't include deaths from starvation and disease. Back in May 2024, the United Nations estimated that rebuilding Gaza would take decades and cost $50 billion, money that will not be forthcoming to any Hamas-led government.
"These deaths should be on the conscience of the Israeli leaders who decided to kill all these people," Palestinian-American historian Rashid Khalidi told Drop Site last year. "But they also to some extent should be on the consciences of the people who organized [the October 7, 2023] operation. They should have known, and had to have known that Israel would inflict devastating revenge not just on them but mainly on the civilian population."
The current war began with raids on Israeli towns on October 7, 2023. Hamas fighters killed hundreds of Israeli civilians and soldiers, returning to Gaza with 251 captives. In later interviews, Hamas officials argued that Palestinians were being slowly wiped out under Israeli rule, so they needed to force a confrontation to give the Palestinian nation a fighting chance.
Their calculations, however, were entirely wrong. Hamas had assumed that domestic dissatisfaction with Netanyahu would weaken Israel internally; instead, the attack caused Israelis to rally around the flag. The United States was willing to give far more support to Israel than expected.
Iran, which had given Hamas vague assurances of support in a war with Israel, was caught by surprise in October 2023 and turned out to be unprepared for the confrontation that followed. The war in Lebanon battered Iranian and pro-Iran forces, which soon found themselves forced out of Syria, too. Instead of winning Arab allies, Iran's support for the Palestinian cause led to Iranian armies being kicked out of the Arab world. And Israel broke the taboo of striking Iranian soil directly.
Iranian losses, however, are not necessarily American gains. The United States now has more responsibilities in a Middle East that is more chaotic and violent than before. Israel beat back Iran at a cost of over $22 billion in American taxpayer dollars. U.S. troops are still deployed on Israeli soil. The U.S. Navy is still fighting the spillover of the war in Yemen. American money is paying to rebuild Lebanon and its government, which American bombs tore up, and U.S. diplomats are micromanaging new Lebanese elections.
Before the war, both parties in American politics had dreamed of imposing a permanent new order on the Middle East. The United States could get out, proponents claimed, if Israel and Arab countries agreed to "police their region of the world" together. Instead, Washington has found itself babysitting Israel and the Arab states separately.
The only winner so far is Trump. Discontent over Biden's war helped swing the election to Trump, and a ceasefire on the eve of inauguration is the best of both worlds for the Trump administration. While Trump can blame Biden for any downsides or failures of the deal, the timing lets Trump take credit for "peace through strength."
Publicly, Trump had threatened Hamas that "all hell will break out" if there is no deal by the time he takes office. But privately, the most decisive pressure may have gone in the other direction. Last weekend, Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff arrived in Israel to wrap up negotiations. Israeli officials complained that he pushed them "unusually aggressively," with "salty" language, to get the deal done quickly. Witkoff did "more to sway [Netanyahu] in a single sit-down than outgoing President Joe Biden did all year," Arab officials told The Times of Israel.
Asked who deserves more credit for the ceasefire, Biden said on Wednesday that "this is the exact framework of the deal I proposed back in May. Exact." That's an indictment, not a defense, of his policy.
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Plus ca change-
Nobody won the Blitz either.
The Luftwaffe certainly didn’t.
Jews will certainly never be able to say the words holocaust or Nazi again without getting their faces rubbed in Gaza.
You're pretty stupid, aren't you.
Would’ve, should’ve, could’ve. All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. E.B.
Israel is just one of the many heads of the hydra called the global Zionist cabal.
Every atrocity Israel commits in Palestine the cabal will do to you in your nation.
You and your ancestors have been brainwashed by this cabal for over 100 years to support them. Their power grows with the help of greedy corrupt traitors who worship the deep pockets of their satanic Zionist gods.
You’re still brainwashed if you see Jews and Israel as the only problem. The successful strategy isn’t to focus on only one head of the hydra, hoping that cutting off that one head will defeat it, but to identify its real weakness and develop a plan that defeats the whole beast.
In typical fashion the strength of the beast is also its weakness, LYING.
In short, developing the plan to defeat the global Zionist cabal and reset the entire world into the right path is to develop and execute a plan that defeats LYING.
That’s right everybody lies and that’s how the beast grows. It’s a fundamental tenet of Judaism and become a meme for the elites who rule the world.
Some nations still have some semblance of a justice system based on the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and our ONLY hope is to defeat the global Zionist cabal in those nations first.
Criminalize lying and as punishment remove liars from power.
Only then we’ll be in control of our future instead of oblivious passengers on a train wreck.
Is Matthew Petti a member of Hamas?
Israel and Hamas are not “exchanging captives”
Israel is releasing hundreds or thousands of convicted murderers in exchange for 34 or so innocent, kidnapped victims.
Idiot.
What does "WW II style" have to do with this? Germany and Japan surrendered, Hamas has not.
One of the reasons for WW II's Unconditional Surrender was that Germany was not occupied by the winners after WW I, and the entire war was fought on French and Belgian territory, plus Russia but that was a different matter. The Allies wanted no repeat of Hitler's stab-in-the-back trash talk.
Will Hamas and Hezbollah surrender? Can Israel occupy Gaza and southern Lebanon?
Fuck no. So fuck off.
Let Israel do a few Dresden responses and they could win too.
Nobody wins in modern warfare because it always ends up in cease fires to restock.
It’s bullshit. Hamas should be exterminated.
Agree.
It is true, JesseAZ. Naftali Bennett made a post awhile back stating the war could be over in 5 days with Israel mass bombing gaza.
This ceasefire will be violated by hamas. Neither Hamas nor the PA can be trusted to keep any agreement they make.
I want the Americans out first, in any deal. The Donald has been clear about that. Our people come home. Israel must choose for itself what compromises they will make for their people. But the early indications are not promising. This ceasefire will break down by phase 2 (next 42 days) if past history is any guide.
Iran, hamas are both claiming 'victory' and proclaiming the defeat of Israel.
By the way, Israel needs to destroy Iran's nuclear capability. Biggest favor they could do the world. And Iran for that matter.
You're wrong about the aftermath of WWI:
France occupied the entire Rhineland until 1930, Belgium controlled the Ruhr for eight years after the Armistice , and Russia permanently occupied East Prussia after expelling 250,000 Germans.
Yeah, that's ALL of Germany, wasn't it. By your standards, one Marine at the Berlin embassy would have been an occupation.
Don't be silly- the Rhineland remains Germany's populous industrial heartland and contains its oldest capital. Add the Prussian Baltic coast and you've got a presence whose American analog would be the occupation of everything East of the MIssissippi
By the way, the capital moved to Bonn when Kaiser fled.
It didn't remain in Bonn moron. You're getting the world wars mixed up. It returned to Berlin (the Reichstag was located in Berlin, as in the Reichstag fire). You're completely mixed up and getting your facts mixed up. The capital of the Weimar Republic was Berlin. Here's a citation on the Weimar Republic. Note the capital is Berlin and that East Prussia is still part of Germany, including Konigsberg. You're so wrong it is pitiful. I'm betting you also get the Korean War and Vietnam War mixed up. You're mixing up the two world wars and the outcomes. Fuck, you're mind glowingly wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic
Erratum:
"It didn't remain in Bonn moron"
It was never there- I meant Weimar, hence the eponymous Republic.
The GFR was founded in Bonn 1949, after the Soviets cut Berlin's road and rail links through the GDR to the West.
I bet you also think Octavius and Augustus were two different people and that Napoleon and Bonaparte were two different people.
Really ? When it comes to Germany a little history is a dangerous thing; Konigsberg morphed into Kaliningrad in 1946, and, says your favorite source, remains to this day "
" the largest city and administrative centre of Kaliningrad Oblast, a Russian exclave between Lithuania and Poland. The city sits about 663 kilometres (412 mi) west of the bulk of Russia. The city is situated on the Pregolya River, at the head of the Vistula Lagoon on the Baltic Sea, and is the only ice-free Russian port on the Baltic Sea. Its population in 2020 was 489,359.[11] Kaliningrad is the second-largest city in the Northwestern Federal District, after Saint Petersburg, the third-largest city in the Baltic region...
Modern-day Kaliningrad was renamed, rebuilt and repopulated by Russians starting in 1946 in the ruins of Königsberg, in which only Lithuanian inhabitants were allowed to remain. Meanwhile, the German population was ethnically cleansed, in effect creating a new city.
Which is exactly what I said fuckhead. I said it remained German until August of 1945, dipshit. That it wasn't taken over by Russia in 1918 like you originally stated. Now you're fucking gaslighting moron. You're fucking can't admit you were wrong and now you're trying to gas light.
God what year did WWI end? Hint it wasn't 1945 or 1946. You stated World War I in your original post. That Russia occupied East Prussia after World War I.
This is your exact quote:
"You're wrong about the aftermath of WWI:
France occupied the entire Rhineland until 1930, Belgium controlled the Ruhr for eight years after the Armistice , and Russia permanently occupied East Prussia after expelling 250,000 Germans."
For your information, the armistice went into effect at the 11th hour, of the 11th day, of the 11 month, of 1918. And the treaty was signed in 1919. The final treaty between Germany and Russia was in 1922. 1946 was the end of the second world war, (the treaty was finalized in August, 1945, Germany surrendered on 9 May, 1945). Like I stated East Prussia wasn't occupied in 1918. It remained German until August 1945, and the Soviets renamed Koninburg in 1946. That's exactly what I stated multiple times. Thanks for admitting you're a fucking liar, and I was correct.
I will admit I mistaked Alexander for Nicholas II. Wrong Tsar. But the rest was correct.
Alexander the III was his father. Alexander the I was his great great grandfather, and Tsar during the Napoleonic Wars.
And I know exactly when World War I ended (it's kinda hard to miss, it's why Veterans day is November 11th every year) because my Great Grandfather, my maternal Grandmother's father, was wounded at around 0800 hours on 11 November, 1918, the only member of his squad who survived, and well he was recovering, he met his future wife, a German emigres daughter, working as nurse in Baltimore, where he was treated for several months after the war ended. Basically, I'm here because of when the war ended.
He also think ‘An Officer and a Gentleman’ is a double feature.
Your quibbly quest for factoid trees has hidden the forest from your lying eyes.
Germans after WW I believed they had not really lost militarily and they had been stabbed in the back by Jews. Why? Because Germany had not been occupied in any meaningful fashion. Compare post WW I and post WW II -- there is a world of difference. That you pretend there isn't doesn't change how the Germans themselves behaved after WW I.
There you go again.
Having been up and down the Rhine and overflown the whole Baltic coast, Kaliningrad included, I fear your view that
" East Prussia is still part of Germany, including Konigsberg."
is as comic as encountering a hard-bitten Gaullist who insists:
"The Rhineland is still a part of France, including Düsseldorf."
Taken out of context. I said it was part of Germany after World War I and wasn't occupied until 1945, like I stated multiple times. At length. Multiple times.
In his defense, he is very stupid.
Uhm Russia didn't occupy East Prussia until after 1945. Russia signed a peace treaty in 1917 in which they admitted they lost to Germany. As a result, and the fact that the Bolsheviks controlled the Russian Government, Russia received no compensation in the final peace treaty in 1919. Try again. In fact, one of the largest points of contention was that they allies created a Polish corridor that divided East Prussia from the rest of Germany. East Prussia remained German until 1945, except a narrow strip of land that was given to a landlocked Poland so that they would have access to the sea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia
Next time maybe know your history before trying to make a point by being completely wrong about the history.
In fact, part of the stab in the back myth involved the existence of the Polish corridor that separated East Prussia from the rest of Germany. So, not only were you wrong, but you were so wrong that you actually proved the OPs post. Damn, that really bad.
And here's a link to the fact that Russia was the loser of the first world war and didn't occupy any land afterwards:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk
Read the aftermath section, it specifically states that no land was exchanged between Russia and Germany as a result of the fall out over the Soviets signing of the Brest-Litovsk treaty ending their war with Germany.
And very wrong you are- Czar Nicholas's Cossack troops invaded East Prussia in 1914 and remained until the Soviets signed the Treaty of Brest Litovosk in 1917
The treaty was annulled by the Armistice of 11 November 1918, in which Germany surrendered to the western Powers, and permanently ceded the East Prussian coast: AKA the Danzig Corridor
Russia remains in power and maintains a naval base in its enclave of Kaliningrad, formerly the East Prussian capital of Konigsberg, to this day
No, by 1916 all Russian forces had been driven out of East Prussia. I even gave you fucking references. Kalingrad didn't transfer to Russia until August 1945. At the time of the armistice Germany had driven all Russian forces east of Brest. There was not a single Russian left in East Prussia, and Konigsberg remained German until 1945.
Here's a map of the Eastern Front at the end of 1917, as you can see, not only are there no Russian forces in East Prussia, and that Konigsberg remained in German hands, but German forces were on the outskirt of Riga, deep in Russian territory. You are wrong again.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_I)#/media/File%3AEastern_Front_As_of_1917.jpg
Konigsberg became Kalingrad and entered Soviet control in 1945, not 1917. And it remains Russian today, but has been only since 1945. You are wrong. I've given you the actual citations and you keep stating fiction as facts. In fact the German offensive of 1917 was so successful that it led to the downfall of the Romanov dynasty, and Germany was actually threatening St Petersburg. The Russian army had completely collapsed. This is well documented. There were zero Russian troops in Germany, and a handful in Austrian controlled Galacia (which is several hundred miles south of the old city of Konigsberg. You're an idiot.
Ludendorf and Hindenburg (by 1917 head of the German General Staff), however, felt Germany didn't have the resources to launch a successful offensive against St Petersburg while maintaining the Western Front and helping Austria on the Italian front and thus agreed to an armistice by the provisional Russian Government after Alexander's abdication. That doesn't change the fact, however, that German troops were hundreds of miles deep inside Russian territory and Russia had no troops in German territory or the fact that the final peace treaty between the Soviet government and the Weimar Republic resulted in Russia gaining zero territory (in fact, despite the repudiation of Brest-Litovsk, in which Germany took over almost all western Russian territory, Russia remained smaller than it was in 1914, largely because Poland and Lithonia gained independence, pushing the Russian border back hundreds of miles east). Not only didn't Russia occupy East Prussia after 1917, their border was actually hundreds of miles further east than it had been in 1914, and thus hundreds of miles east of East Prussia. I have offered now multiple citations proving you're wrong. I also suggest you read Lloyd's "The Eastern Front" which catalogs the fighting on the Eastern Front from 1914-the armistice in 1917 and the peace process of 1918. His area of expertise is World War I history, so, since his non-fiction account agrees with all the citations I've provided, I'm going to go out on a limb and state he is correct. Since, I just finished the book, I can guarantee you he unequivocally states Russia gained no territories after WWI, had no troops in Germany (including East Prussia) by 1917, and were driven back to the outskirts of Riga by summer of 1917, and that Russia ultimately lost territory in the West even after the renunciation of Brest-Litovsk.
Here's another reference to Germany in 1939 before the war started. Note that Easter Prussia is still part of Germany and Konigsberg is still German. Poland was independent of Soviet Russia at the time (rather famously since part of the Ribbentopp-Molitov pact was that Soviet Russia took control of Eastern Poland and Germany Western Poland after the war started).
https://www.worldhistory.org/image/18715/europe-on-the-eve-of-wwii-1939/
I have not offered multiple citations that demonstrate you're wrong, yet you keep insisting you're correct. This demonstrates an inability to learn from your mistakes and admit mistakes, which is a sign of a limited intellect.
Also, just so we're all aware, Poland was not an independent country in 1914, it hadn't been since the three partitions of the late 18th century except for a brief period under the French Empire. Galacia was largely controlled by the Austo-Hungarian Empire. East Poland was the Russian puppet government of the Congress of Poland which was incorporated Russian territory in everything but name. Most of what is now Poland never was actually part of the Polish Kingdom. It's former German territory that the Soviets 'gave' to Poland in August of 1945 and much of it was the old Holy Roman Duchy of Pomerania.
Hell, for that matter, by the end of 1914, the Germans had driven the Russians out of East Prussia except a small strip in the very south and very eastern fringes, capturing two whole Russian Armies in the process (look up the Battle of Tannanburg, 1914 and the First Battle of Masurian Lake, 1914).
Damn, bud, I wish I had your patience to deal with such idiots! Thank you.
Now he's trying to gaslight that he meant 1946. When I stated it East Prussia remained German until August 1945 multiple times and he stated I was wrong, multiple times. Now he's fucking gaslighting that he meant 1946 all along. Hell he is even stated the Czar above, who was murdered in 1918, as proof that he was right. Kind of hard for the Czar, who abdicated in 1917 and was murdered in 1918, to have Anything to do with what happened in 1945 and 1946. Fuck, he's a moron.
I will admit I got Alexander and Nicholas II mixed up as to the last Tsar of Russia (I'm reading a biography of Napoleon and obviously got my Tsars mixed up, Alexander the I was Tsar during the Napoleonic Wars, Nicholas the II last Tsar of Russia,his father was Alexander the III).
You confusion is understandable.
In 1914 Czar Nicholas' Imperial Army invaded East Prussia, driving out its German occupants but leaving Lithuanian speakers behind. But victories by Austro-German and Turkish forces in Poland led to the Czar's arrest by Lenin's new Soviet Russian government which ceded East Prussia to the Kaiser four months before assassinating the Romanovs.
Never fucking happened. Moron. I have offered multiple citations. It never happened. East Prussia remained German until August 1945 and the German speakers were not driven out. And German forces Russia back to Riga. Look at the fucking map, Riga which is in Latvia. You're wrong
He’s just shitposting.
Probably the most pertinent to this discussion is that Britain occupied what was left of the Turkish Ottoman Empire - the Middle East. Turkey made the mistake of teaming up with Germany and Austria Hungary. They didn't make that mistake again in WWII.
The ending of WWIi also included mass expulsion of Germans from eastern German territory that went to the Siviet Union and the Soviet Polish puppet state, (while the Soviets kept the eastern part of pre-war Poland they allied with the Nazis to conquer in '39).
"These deaths should be on the conscience of the Israeli leaders who decided to kill all these people," Palestinian-American historian and former Rashid Khalidi told Drop Site last year. "But they also to some extent should be on the consciences of the people who organized [the October 7, 2023] operation. They should have known, and had to have known that Israel would inflict devastating revenge not just on them but mainly on the civilian population."
"To some extent"? Hamas knew exactly what would happen, so the reasonable assumption is that they wanted it to happen. It's on them. The rule of war can't be that the war has to stop if a bunch of kids are getting killed. Otherwise every scumbag in the world will just hide behind a bunch of women and children. War fucking sucks and innocent people will always suffer in war. That's why it's to be avoided if possible. But once you are in it, you fight to win.
This is spot on. Matthew Petti is an idiot.
A huge idiot
A huge, massive idiot.
"not just on them but mainly on the civilian population"
It should also be noted, that civilian population has a broad majority support for Hamas, elected them, and if you took a poll of people asking "should the Jews be rounded up and either killed or expelled from Israel" that opinion would also have majority support.
A morally inferior, evil ideology rules over a lot of the middle east, and especially the gaza strip. That's just how it is. And what happens as a result (them insisting on death to all jews, killing jews, and then being killed in return) is directly due to the ideology of Islamic jihad.
A lot of those civilians are also Hamas soldiers. They start recruiting them early. They just dont wear uniforms.
Yes, we know. Just as every BLM protestor was a violent rioter who deserved to die, every civilian in Gaza is a soldier who deserves to die. We know. And anyone who disagrees is a supporter who deserves to die. We know. Condemnation and guilt by association. We know. We know. We know.
Do you have anything useful to say, you drunk anti Semitic bitch?
That was rhetorical right?
Sarc is the idiot still repeating Hamas numbers after he was shown Hamas admitting to lying about them.
He doesn't care about facts or the truth, just narratives.
It’s mostly rhetorical. Sarc generally far too frightened to respond to me. Since he threatened me with physical violence, two years ago.
I dearly wish she would attempt to follow through on his pathetic threats. Having a legal pretext to savagely beat him would be cathartic.
I'm in that club too. Laughed my ass off.
So broken.
sarcasmic, hamas enjoys strong support in gaza, and Judea & Samaria. Just ask the palestinians themselves, who have cheered on hamas for over a year.
Do you deny hamas has strong support among the palestinians?
Did he say "every"?
Or "a lot"
Because "a lot" is correct. There was plenty of popular support in Gaza for Hamas. Still is. That's the nature of totalitarian rule by religious nutcases.
And I'd wager Hamas was counting on those civilian deaths to swell their ranks with fighters from around the ME.
I dunno, I would say Israel won.
Hamas fucked with them, and due to it they and their people suffered for it.
It would be weird to watch a fight where some wimp sucker punches Mike Tyson, then gets pummeled into the ground, and say that no one won. There is a pretty clear winner.
Hopefully Hamas takes away the lesson of fuck around and find out, but I have a feeling the same shit will just happen again as it always does.
Israel has a lot of pressure to cut a deal right now. And they still have Iran to contend with. If the Iranian regime is dealt with, that could put an end to them oh funding Hezbollah and Hamas.
Israel has a lot of pressure to cut a deal right now.
This is the correct answer.
I watched a little old grandma hurl insults about Hamas , basically saying all the leaders aren't even in the area nor do they live there. "nobody dies, but us " , she said. "They lie to our sons and send them to die from their palaces outside the country. "
My point being that the people who are dying aren't the ones making the decisions. I have little hope that we won't be here again in a few years ... maybe less.
>>in a three-stage deal beginning on January 19
fuck that. one stage.
Should only be one agreement anyways.
"Release all the hostages or we carpet bomb your country into rubble and then keep it for ourselves when you're all dead"
War sucks, and when you start one and then lose there are consequences.
^^
The people being killed didn't start a war anymore than you forgave student loans.
Civilians die in war. Best not to start one, in that scenario.
I for one blame the governing body of the openly terrorist country, Hamas. They, with majority support from their people, would like eradication of the Jewish people and the state of Israel.
Best to place blame on those that started the conflict. War is hell.
^+1
They, with majority support from their people, would like eradication of the Jewish people and the state of Israel.
This is the part where, if it weren't this topic, I would ask you to look at it from the other side's point of view. Unfortunately if I do that I will be accused of being an antisemitic leftist and who knows what else. So I will not ask you to consider the point of view of the people who lived in that region when Israel was formed, nor that of their decedents. That would be the same as wearing a swastika.
You're right. They all deserve it. Just don't lead them as much. Right?
There is no real ‘other side’ here. And yes, you are absolutely an antisemitic leftist. You’re also a stupid drunk.
Israel was formed thousands of years ago, sarcasmic. What is your point?
Everyone has their historical claim they think is just, so lets call those equally unimportant given the following:
A large amount of superiorly armed Jews has Israel right now. They allow arab muslims safe haven, citizenship, civil rights, and the ability to run for and hold office.
The other large group, inferiorly armed, that makes a claim to Israel call for and have majority support for killing every last Jew and having the state of Israel for themselves.
Sorry I didn't consider the point of view of the people calling for eradication of the jews.
We really need Israel to just take it on the chin and not do anything when its citizens are murdered, raped, and beheaded by a group of people calling for their extermination, right?
"We really need Israel to just take it on the chin and not do anything when its citizens are murdered, raped, and beheaded by a group of people calling for their extermination, right?"
Israel's response is to sign a ceasefire with them. It always has been and I figured back in Oct. 2023 the current hostilities would end in the same way. You thought this time would be different?
Israel can’t freely prosecute the war because of people like you in the international community. And more people will die, because of anti semitic, Islamist apologist leftists, like you.
"Israel can’t freely prosecute the war because of people like you in the international community. "
Israel was once a nation that preferred mass suicide to defeat in war. Now, they cower before the opinions of foreigners and 'people like me?' You picked the wrong team. It's not too late to join us.
The Nazi team is always the wrong team. Fuck off, Nazi scum.
You’re on the side of Marxism, oppression, lies, degeneracy, and pedophilia.
No thanks.
Another huge idiot.
The leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah have been eradicated, the tunnels in Gaza have been destroyed, Assad is gone, Israel occupies Hezbollah former bases in Syria and Lebanon, Iran has been effectively neutered outside their own borders and their air defense has been eliminated, and Israel has suffered little damage in the last year while proving the efficacy of the Iron Dome.
No changes in the last year, indeed
"The leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah have been eradicated"
That was baked in on day 1. Have you heard of any Hamas leader in the history of the organization who's died a natural death? Haven't they, and often their families, usually been assassinated by Israelis?
"No changes in the last year, indeed"
Last year the Israelis were unwilling to seal a hostage deal with the Palestinians. This year, they're sealing. They're shaking hands, embracing, kissing each other's cheeks, whatever these middle eastern types do at the end of hostilities.
It remains to be seen whether the ceasefire takes effect, or how long it will remain in effect. As you know, misconstrueman, hamas has violated every agreement made to date.
Goddamn you’re so fucking stupid. An antisemite to boot. According to you it’s them impossible to fight back when Israel is attacked.
You’re with Misek.
Most leftists were closet antisemitism, but for some reason October 7 made them open the closet door.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We need a similar outing of leftists on the race grift scam, the climate "disaster" scam, and the gender "reassignment" scam.
What we ultimately need as a return to McCarthyism.
Ever since McCarthyism, the US has lost every war it's been involved in.
Nope. We won Desert Storm decisively. But what you really meant to say was “ever since my fellow travelers managed to thwart McCarthyism the US has not decisively won most of our military conflicts”.
Seriously, don’t play these games with me. You are outmatched.
"ever since my fellow travelers managed to thwart McCarthyism the US has not decisively won most of our military conflicts”
That is not what I really meant to say.
"We won Desert Storm decisively. "
It wasn't decisive. It was confused at best. The war ended with the US intervening to prevent anti Saddam insurgents from seizing power. Saddam remaining in power gave him just as much right to declare victory. It wasn't all that long ago. Maybe read a book or two on the matter to refresh your memory.
misconstrueman, Desert Storm was a decisive victory; Iraq was ejected from Kuwait. That was the military objective.
" Desert Storm was a decisive victory;"
I disagree. WWII was a decisive victory. The Axis surrendered and the hostilities ended. In Iraq, Clinton kept bombing Iraq long after your supposed decisive victory. A whole new phase of the conflict was launched in 2003, you may remember. Have you forgotten? Get in touch with Fire up the Woodchippers! (Trump Ascendant!! ) whom I've advised to find some books on the subject. S/he will by now have gained some familiarity on the subject and will no doubt be willing to set you straight.
Misconstrueman, no one gives a shit what you think. The victory in Desert Storm is an objective fact. Case closed.
Now piss off. I, sure you have some anti American protest to attend. Or some Jews to harass.
Yup. The more open and out communists pop up and ruin shit, the more I find myself thinking that McCarthy guy had some good points
Aside from his alcohol problems, he was spot on. The real problem is that the leftist media rewrote history and greatly maligned him.
McCarthy was right.
It gave them the excuse. They have always been happy to take the allyship from the liberal Jews, and their support/money/voices when they were staying in line, but they have always looked at them in the oppressor matrix as basically one step (maybe a half step) away from cis-white-hetero-male christians.
This conflict gave them the supposed moral high ground to call out Jews as the evil oppressors fitting perfectly into their indoctrination.
Theyve always been envious of them as they consider them "just rich whites", honestly similar to how they view a lot of Asians. You aren't supposed to be a model minority that accels in the system as is, you are supposed to be a beaten and oppressed minority full of rage for taking down the system.
They don't need any excuses. Leftists have long preferred self hating Jews over Zionist bigotry. The world didn't begin on Oct. 7th 2023.
You’re certainly a bigot. Part of what makes yours such a good democrat.
Let me know if you have anything interesting to add.
Why? You’re too stupid to understand anything interesting.
This was hilarious, and on point. Yes.
The military industrial complex and its shareholders won bank.
Yes, because of you and you’re faggots friends, Israel can’t just put an end into Hamas decisively. Ultimately far more life will be lost, because of you.
"because of you....:
And his faggot friends.
Yes, induhviduals, such as yourself.
Trump did good.
The pro-genocide crowd here - and Biden - go into the cesspool.
You’re on the pro genocide team. Not us.
Right JewFree?
It's likely the reason the peace agreement was signed is that Hamas has been-- for the most part-- completely decimated. If if one takes issue with the word "decimated" fine... but their leadership was very much decapitated. Hezbollah to the north has also been dramatically diminished as a fighting force. It is my opinion that Hamas ultimately failed both in their military (as much as they can be called that) objectives AND its political objectives in that it failed to gel international support around the civilian casualties in Gaza. Of course, time infects all wounds and they eventually go septic, so we'll see what happens in ten years.
I don't think there's any sort of solution on the horizon, but if the hostages who are still alive get released than this will do IMO.
This will flare up again of course, but any break in this is better than nothing.
"It is my opinion that Hamas ultimately failed both in their military (as much as they can be called that) objectives AND its political objectives in that it failed to gel international support around the civilian casualties in Gaza."
Militarily, they prevented Israel from ethnically cleansing the Gaza strip, and have been able to replenish the rank and file. They've lost many of the leaders and in the past few weeks, have resorted to suicide attacks, a sign of depleted capabilities, in my opinion. Politically, it's too early to tell. We'll see how Saudi Arabia reacts.
The US and Israel both failed to get international support for the extermination of the Palestinians. Had they been able, this war would have ended soon after it started.
"Militarily, they prevented Israel from ethnically cleansing the Gaza strip"
LOL, the only thing that prevented the Gaza strip from being ethnically cleansed was Israel's mercy.
A line from smart ass comic Andrew Schultz comes to mind, with his recent scuff with tiny Kendrick Lamar.
"His security would fuck me up, but just Kendrick....I would make love to him, and the only thing he could do was decide if it was consensual or not"
Hamas and their fighting force are cowards, and their military strat was "dying in caves and tunnels slowly, hiding behind women and children". LMAO
"LOL, the only thing that prevented the Gaza strip from being ethnically cleansed was Israel's mercy. "
I'm not following. Israel failed to ethnically cleanse Gaza out of mercy? Mercy for whom?
"dying in caves and tunnels slowly, hiding behind women and children"
There are also men among these hostages. Tunnels and bunkers are probably the best defense against aerial attacks. The British flocked to air raid shelters during the blitz. It wasn't out of cowardice, though. It was a matter of survival.
If Israel really wanted to ethically cleanse Gaza, no one would be alive there.
I think Israel merely wanted to ethnically cleanse Gaza. What they really wanted was the full support of the US to help them in the effort. The US complied as best as can be expected in an election year, but support was always less than the enthusiastic commitment Israel was counting on.
misconstrueman, ethnic cleansing was never an objective. Plenty of palestinians living within Israel, but how many Jews were living in gaza? You have the ethnic cleansing exactly backward, like much of your belief system.
"misconstrueman, ethnic cleansing was never an objective."
I disagree. If the phrase 'ethnic cleansing' rankles you, try forced population transfer. It amounts to the same thing. It was an objective and had wide support with Israelis, Americans such as Biden and the commenters here such as yourself. No suitable refuge for displaced Gazans could be found, because of Egypt's unwillingness to cooperate. Israel switched to slaughter, starvation, and destruction of infrastructure.
"because of Egypt's unwillingness to cooperate."
Everywhere "Gazans / Palestinians" go in large numbers - turns into a shit show!
That's why other middle eastern countries don't want them either!
They've tried to overthrow several governments in the region over the decades.
"Mercy for whom?"
For civilians. If they wanted them all dead and they absolutely have the means to do so, they would be dead. Therefore, they didnt actually want them all dead.
I know you people that have trouble with actual definitions of ethnic cleansing and genocide are basically on the IQ level of a college freshman, so ill just chalk it up to your mental condition that its hard for you to follow.
" If they wanted them all dead and they absolutely have the means to do so, they would be dead."
They only wanted some of the civilians dead? That's merciful to you?
"I know you people that have trouble with actual definitions of ethnic cleansing and genocide"
Let's use the definitions your people like to use. Care to spell them out for me?
You're a terrible, evil, gross, sub-human, Nazi piece of shit.
Did any civilians in Germany or Japan get killed by Allied bombs?
Does that imply that the Allied goal was to kill every German or Japanese person?
Terrorists specifically target civilians. Nazis want to destroy all of certain groups of people. Evil people think that any imperfect defense is equivalent to terrorism.
Fuck evil, terrorist, Nazi pieces of shit. If you want to equivocate "war is hell" with terrorist Hamas/Nazis like Misek, JewFree, martin and trueman, then fuck you too.
We get it. You’re with the terrorists. A true democrat.
" You’re with the terrorists."
I never meant to terrorize you.
I’m sure you have a pro Hamas/Hezbollah rally to attend.
I don't. I much prefer the doughty Ansar Allah (aka Houthis.) Ask me why if you are curious.
Of course nobody won the war, it is not over.
A cease fire is not a peace treaty.
There was a cease fire in place October 7th.
Call me when the last Hamas member is dead or in jail.
Seems like Netanyahu won.
Not really. They’re going to release over 3000 Hamas terrorists as part of the deal. This may cost Netanyahu his job.
Bibi has lost his job more than once before. He keeps coming back around. He's the Israeli version of the clap.
Israel desperately needs him right now. They are in a military conflict with Iran. This shit is serious.
'The same ceasefire agreement was almost signed in XXXX. Instead, the pointless violence continued for several more months—at Americans’ expense.'
Hmm, where else could this apply?
Was it pointless?
The setbacks for Iran as a credible leader of Islamic countries seems to have taken a large hit as a result. But I am really not expecting more than a superficial analysis from Petti.
Ukraine for one...
As Israeli troops withdraw, Hamas fighters will once again be in charge of Gaza.
For a few minutes, maybe. Then, after any surviving hostages are released, the extermination of Hamas will resume.
It will be interesting to see Trump's next move, which likely be dealing with Iran. Resuming the nuclear agreement, lifting sanctions, and maybe re-establishing formal relations. None of that was promised or hinted at during the campaign.
None of that will, or should happen. Hopefully, Israel will end up destroying the Iranian regime once and for all.
"Israel will end up destroying the Iranian regime once and for all."
Maybe sometime when Trump is no longer president. He wants to focus on China, and yet another war in west Asia would be a nuisance. Israel was not even able to destroy Hamas, a militia confined to a small enclave, despite the massive aid and encouragement from the US, the world's largest military power.
Nobody won the war? How about China? They managed to stay above the fray, kept their assets in Iran untouched, enlarged their BRICS initiative, everyone else dirtied their hands and sullied their reputations.
Israel didn’t destroy Hamas for two reasons. Democrat interference, which will no longer exist as of next week, and there restraint, Iran is a very different situation. And they won’t have you democrats funding them anymore.
Israel wanted more enthusiastic support from the US for their genocide. It wasn't forthcoming. Therefore, ceasefire.
misconstrueman...Ultimately, Pres Trump would prefer a direct deal with Tehran vis a vis nuclear power (and ambitions) with 100% verification. Probably won't happen. I don't think the mullahs can be trusted to keep an agreement, they have a track record of breaking agreements.
Next best is to lay the hammer down and create such negative social and economic conditions in Iran, a revolt occurs; could be do-able if we drill baby drill + sanctions + eliminate shadow oil fleet. The problem is, you can only play that card 1X.
I believe Iran is much further along on nuke development and deployment than is commonly understood. Iran can now field 'dirty' nuke missiles (weapons that disperse radioactive material over a wide area, not a nuke detonation) with some degree of precision.
"Next best is to lay the hammer down and create such negative social and economic conditions in Iran, a revolt occurs; could be do-able if we drill baby drill + sanctions + eliminate shadow oil fleet. The problem is, you can only play that card 1X. "
That's what Biden has been trying to do. I think Trump may do better.I am surprised you are so willing to abandon your hopes for a Trump peace so readily, even before he resumes office. Have some faith. Granted Trump is a buffoon, but I've always believed his anti-war stance was sincere if not deeply held.
Trump's first misstep.
He should have pledged at least American political (even if no money) and moral support for the Israelis.
Instead Hamas will get the chance to rebuild.
"Trump's first misstep."
His first misstep was about 8 years ago. Don't you remember when he chose to staff his cabinet with men who were bent on subverting his initiatives?
"He should have pledged at least American political (even if no money) and moral support for the Israelis."
You think that would have freed the hostages?
You’re an idiot.
You're a bore. And forgettable. Remind me, have you ever managed to respond to me with something of substance?
Nazis don't deserve substantive responses. Even slow, painful deaths would be too kind for shit like you.
Fatass Donnie rushed in to take credit for the Israeli pullout.
Hey Donnie - last time you did this it got a bit sloppy.
He got more done as president elect than your hero Biden did during his entire presidency.
Ive seen a few dyed in the wool lefties (Ryan Grim today) full on saying this.
Trump just ate Biden's lunch from a position of not-yet-in-power. Its about the most emasculated you could make the guy.
Second hand embarassment for Biden and Buttplug here
"Trump just ate Biden's lunch from a position of not-yet-in-power."
I agree. I just don't know what took him so long. He should have been on the case as soon as he discovered that Americans were among those being held hostage. He gravely miscalculated if he thought that Genocide Joe would have anything useful to contribute.
Shrike probably believes Biden’s self congratulatory speech from yesterday. As Shrike is a stupid sack of shit.
He also rapes children.
Sure is funny timing, Trump said "im coming into office soon, get your shit in order by then" and everyone got their shit in order.
Probably really blasts your balls how much of a gigachad move he just pulled.
The nobel peace prize he eventually gets will be the best
As much as he deserves it - I doubt Trump will ever get a Nobel prize.
Nobel prizes have become nothing more than a global liberal circle jerk.
Bidens own state department rep Matt Miller gave Trumps team the credit you fucking democrat moron.
Can even watch Matthew Miller say it here.
https://x.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1879623095696199987
How are you wrong on every fucking topic?
He wants to believe. This is a lot of why he is a slavish Soros worshiping drone.
Gee, I don't know, if Hamas was a neo Nazi organization, vowed to wipe out black people and tossed black babies into ovens in 10/7, I would think President Harris would have been entirely correct to eliminate them anywhere near American soil. If Mexico knowingly harbored them, we'd basically have to declare them a terrorist state.
This is such a contrived but predictable "both sides can be bad" take from this rag. In terms of ideology, Palestine is no different than Nazi Germany or the Confederate states. They HAVE to be defeated unconditionally, even at the expense of civilian lives. Their existence is threat to humanity. They're not like North Korea, a hermit state that just kills its own people. Hamas could have ended this by simply releasing the hostages, they didn't.
Netanyahu wasn't like the retards running CA. Remember that he was willing to give his Hamas work permits and even ceded land. He got burnt one too many times and decided to act. Now the world is spared their own future Palisades fire. If one day they succeed with terrorism that involve chemical agent or nuclear devices and millions lay dead, then the borders will be TRULY closed. Thank the nationalists for preventing that.
You know who's against the Marshall plan? The antisemites who harp on "two state solution", because apparently, the Jews are the only people on earth who have to coexist with barbaric fanatics who want to the see them dead. White people can't go to black neighborhoods in fear of "gentrification", but Jews have to compromise with live with Palestine.
"They HAVE to be defeated unconditionally, even at the expense of civilian lives. Their existence is threat to humanity."
And more importantly, their direct stated goal is eradication of their neighbor (Israel) who they violently attacked. There really isnt a gray area here, its pretty cut and dry.
FAFO covers it well.
"I would think President Harris would have been entirely correct to eliminate them anywhere near American soil."
Eliminate the black babies? Why not start with the black mothers?
Well, as a Jew and an Israeli and an American, I used to want to co-exist. Really badly. I was willing to cut a deal and agree to two states to co-exist. On October 7th that ended. I no longer want to co-exist. I want to win. Unconditionally. Decisively. It's not that I don't have empathy for the "poor Palestinians." They are, if anything, pitiable. But, in the end, when the chips are down. I pick my people.
And America has an interest in dealing with Iran and its proxies in the region. Does military aid cost money? Sure. But what America is paying for isn't a magnanimous, no-strings-attached Israeli victory for those "darned zionists." That's small-minded ignorant bullshit and shows a complete misunderstanding of realpolitik and The Great Game.
America is paying to have a proxy state (Israel) destabilize Iran and its proxies in the region, which strengthens the Gulf League and keeps the oil flowing at reasonable rates. Indeed, its the entire underlying rationale of the Abraham Accords. In the end, the cost of goods, most notably gas, is what drives American politics. It's why Trump won this election, after all.
Dropping cash on the Israelis so that they can hit Hamas, the Hizzy's, Assad's former forces, and perhaps Iran itself is just a down payment on energy security and keeps the US from having to get bogged down in the region to hit them... and future election victories. Two bids. One (Zionist) stone.
"America is paying to have a proxy state (Israel) destabilize Iran"
One proxy doesn't seem to be enough. Got anyone else in mind?
"but Jews have to compromise with live with Palestine."
That's not all that bad an outcome to the war. If before the war they believed there was no need to compromise, it's a lesson well learned.
They had been compromising, and it got them Hamas irregulars attacking a music festival murdering, raping, and kidnapping the peaceful people there.
They are still compromising. How else would they manage to reach a deal with Hamas?
"At Americans’ expense."
Because everything in this world is about money, right, Petti?
Or, rather, money spent. What does America get in return for that investment? Because that's what it is: an investment. We get a proxy state and cheaper oil. And the savings on oil based on American consumption far exceeds the outlay. Petti, you appear to be able to balance a checkbook but not be able to run a strategic budget.
The United States consumed 7.39 BILLION barrels of oil per year, which at average rates, costs those American's whose pocket-books you are so concerned with 522.5469 BILLION dollars per year. We pay far less per year for funding and leveraging proxies to keep that oil flowing and affordable than either 1) simply using our own military to invade the region, ala the neo-cons under Bush, or 2) doing nothing and letting it be disrupted and become unaffordable. Basically, we're outsourcing that shit.
The next stage of the war will determine who 'won'.
The cameras are now going into Gaza. For the first time in over a year for all media except Al Jazeera.
It will become very obvious very quickly whether this has been a war against Hamas - or just a mass slaughter of women and children (Amalek).
Well obvious to everyone in the world except the pro-genocide halfwits here at Reason and in the commentariat. No amount of information matters to that propagandized ilk.
It is amazing watching the antisemitism continue to defend Hamas and their lies who have an open charter calling for the destruction of Israel, has a martyr fund for killing news, did October 7... call others pro genocide.
Israel provides the vast majority of aid to Gaza. Hamas steals this aid from its own citizens. And you blame the Jews.
You're a real antisemetic piece of shit JewFree.
I wonder how much aid was provided to Germany or Japan by their enemies during the war.
Hamas steals this aid from its own citizens.
At gunpoint, the moment the cameras are turned off. And the JewFrees of the world ignore it.
Mr. Petti. Please do yourself a favor and master the following:
Bismark. Great Game. Realpolitik.
You'd save us from having to read incessant drivel.
Get any Israeli hostages back. Then wait until Monday. Then immediately renege and kill everyone still in "Palestine." Then warm up a nuke and point it at Iran, and dare them to do anything about it.
Assuming, as Mr. Petti does, both that this is the end of the war and that Hamas has or will shortly have just as many troops as it did at the beginning of the war, the months of fighting still served very important purposes.
First, a great deal of physical infrastructure that served Hamas no longer exists. Tunnels, military command posts, weapons depots, and more. These things have been destroyed in massive amounts, and it will take a long time for Hamas to replace them.
Second, the newly-recruited Hamas fighters surely do not have the training and skills of those that they replaced. War is not simply a numbers game!
Third, the Arab population in Gaza now knows that they can and will suffer horrendous consequences when they attack Israel and seek to torture, rape, and murder us into oblivion. At least some will now be more hesitant than before to repeat October 7. Undermining Hamas' political support is important!
No, this war has not ended in total Israeli victory--at least, not yet. But alongisde that bitter disappointment, I must acknowledge that this righteous war against the forces of Arab Islamic evil has achieved a great deal and, no doubt, strengthened Israeli security for years into the future.
Israel has learned that the two-state solution was a delusional premise. There is no scenario where there can be a Judeocidal palestinian state living side-by-side of Israel. The PA and hamas enjoy strong support of palestinians in their Judeocidal goals. They live and feed on a toxic social and religious brew of Jew hatred.
A far more humane solution is voluntary incentivized emigration of palestinians to countries in the region. I surely don't want them in America, just watching Rashida Tlaib is enough for me.
How did that work out for Jordan and Lebanon?
Speaking as someone who grew up in the shadow of the Oslo Accords, the idea of a peaceful and good-neighborly State of Palestine was always nonsense, and always obvious nonsense. A great many of us knew it at the time, and said so, loudly and often.
Sadly, successive Israeli governments were captured by the most delusional of wishful thinking, and significant elements of the Israeli power structure (including specifically the top brass of the military, the judiciary and legal profession, and most of the media) are still enthralled by the vision of a peaceful State of Palestine living next door to Israel as a good neighbor.
The middle east war will not stop until the Arabs want it to. I think it is clear to anyone with an ounce of objectivity that the Arab goal is the total elimination of the Jewish state and that the Israeli goal is peace within reasonable borders. I will gladly listen to any incriminating evidence someone might have to the contrary, but until then there is no doubt in my mind that Israel has consistently and honorably tried to achieve a peaceful existence and that all responsibility for the ongoing military conflict there is the exclusive fault of the Arab states and their terrorist fronts.
I take no joy in saying this, however, every few decades - Israel has to kick the shit out of several Arab neighbors to ensure her future - hopefully in the process a generation of Israelis and Arabs can enjoy an interval of peace - no matter how brief. A brevity - I might add - that is strictly up to Hamas & Hezbollah ... Stop attacking Israel, and there will be no need for Israel to pound you into dust - with all of the resulting and sad collateral damage.
The Palestinians will always lose because they literally don't know any better.
Libertarians should know this. Freedom is the answer. Freedom to learn, freedom to speak, freedom to defend themselves from the State. As long as the State is controlled by religious zealots, the people will suffer. What Gaza needs is a Bill of Rights. With the right to bear arms first and foremost, because it is what ensures the rest can't be taken away.
What makes you think that the Arabs of Gaza do not support the same vision as Hamas? I hate to break it to you, but Hamas is not a vile and bloody minded dictatorship that rules despite the goodwill and peaceful dreams of the population. It is a vile and bloody minded dictatorship that rules with the fervent support of the population.
I agree 100%. The only answer to that, other than genocide, is education.
So if you understand that they are enthusiastic supporters of mass murder, why exactly do you want them all to have guns?
Education won't work, because they believe (and with good Koranic reason) that their enthusiastic support of murderous barbarism is fundamental to their religion. You're not going to educate them out of Islam. You're not going to convince them that you understand Islam better than they do, even in the unlikely event that you really do.
Genocide? Killing them all? Yeah, that'd work, but it would come with immense costs, and we should look for other solutions first.
The obvious one is scattering them across the Arab world. They speak the same language, follow the same faith, and are in every other way indistinguishable from their fellow Arabs. Let them go to the various Arab countries, fewer to the smaller countries and more to the larger countries. Those countries could easily control them, and within a few generations, they would lose any thought of themselves as distinct. They would just be Moroccans and Egyptians and Iraqis and so forth.
No? Then the only other approach (aside from demanding that all the Jews lay down for execution, which we're not going to do) is for Israel to stay on guard, using the threat or the reality of superior military power to keep the murderous impulses of our Arab neighbors in check. This "staying on guard" will have to last as long as it takes. A few hundred years, I would guess.
Eventually, their descendants might acclimate themselves to the reality that sovereign Jews exist, aren't going anywhere, and give up on their dreams of torturing us to death and reducing our daughters to lifetimes of sexual slavery.
The people of the USSR had rights.
Sure, but did they have guns?
What condition was Hamas in in May compared to today? How likely was Hamas to be able to break the ceasefire with some effective action in May compared to today. How quickly could Hamas have reconstituted in May compared to today.
"... and expanded the war into Lebanon." Even when off topic Matthew's bias and spin here are palpable. Israel did not "expand the war into Lebanon!" The Lebanon-based terrorist organization had been attacking Israel for more than a decade before Israel finally retaliated by invading Lebanon and attacking them more directly. The implication is that Israel is an aggressor when, in fact, there was already a war going on. Attacking your enemy during a war with ground troops instead of rockets and bombs is neither unexpected nor reprehensible if you want to win. And it worked. Both Hamas and the Lebanese terrorists have been crippled militarily by Israel for now.
"Attacking your enemy during a war with ground troops instead of rockets and bombs is neither unexpected nor reprehensible if you want to win. "
I don't think Israel had winning in mind when they invaded Lebanon. They were hoping for a ceasefire, which is what they got. Israel had bigger hopes when they invaded Gaza after Oct. 7th, but they dwindled down to a negotiated hostage exchange and ceasefire. A stalemate rather than a win. After a long string of unsuccessful military adventures stretching from Korea to Afghanistan, Americans seem to have forgotten what actually winning a war against a foe looks like.
I don't particularly care what Israel "had in mind" - the point is that invading Lebanon and crushing the terrorists and their bases had the desired military effect. Of course, nothing military can ever be truly permanent around Israel. Concerning Americans: if you want to win a war against a foe, you should be careful what foes you engage in war. Defeating the Nazis and the Empire of Japan was the last time Americans engaged in a war to defeat foes. All of the other wars you listed were aspirational and political in nature. There were no enemies that could have been defeated in those interventions.
"I don't particularly care what Israel "had in mind"
You wrote "if you want to win." I don't think the purpose was to secure a military victory over Hezbollah, but to put an end to the fighting and return to normalcy - 10s of 1000s of Israeli refugees returning north from the safe havens in the south (which were proving increasingly unsafe as far as havens go.)
Yeah and nobody won WWII. What a blithering idiot, hamas git skull fucked by Israel.
There were developments since May 2024, like the killing of Sinwar, that make today's agreement different than what could have been done then.
Critics of Israel haven't answered -- to my knowledge -- the question of how Israel could prevent the next Oct 7 (which Hamas has vowed to carry out) with substantially less destruction.
It seems that it is just more of the same.
There is plenty of blame to go around, but unless both parties can move past the desire to seek revenge the cycle will continue.
In my opinion, Gaza should be an independent country, separate and different from the West Bank which should also be a country. I'm not aware of any country where part of it is completely separated that does not have conflict with the exception of the country being a regional super power.
Neither Gaza nor the West Bank are by any stretch of the imagination regional super powers and the land separating the two is controlled by Israel which is somewhat of a regional super power.
I'm glad that there is an agreement and admit that it is basically the same agreement that had been proposed for several months. The difference is that Trump entered into the picture and changed the dynamics. Without the Stick of Trump, Israel would not have agreed.
Even assuming this, I don't have confidence that either party will stick to the agreement for very long, as I believe that both sides are itching for a war. I'm much more hopeful that the new Syrian government will be friendlier with Israel than Gaza will be.