Republican Populism Aims To Expand the Nanny State
The policies pushed by some MAGA Republicans sound a lot like the ideas of socialist Democrats.

We're well accustomed to progressive politicians railing against corporate greed, especially here in California where Gov. Gavin Newsom and his Democratic allies blame oil companies—and not their own tax and regulatory policies—for our sky-high gasoline prices.
This economic illiteracy isn't confined to our state, of course, with the ongoing congressional hearings on credit card rates likely to feature all the usual posturing and big-government claptrap. Here's a statement by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) about calls for the federal government to cap card rates at 10 percent:
"Americans are being crushed under the weight of record credit card debt—and the biggest banks are just getting richer. The government was quick to bail out the banks just this spring, but has ignored working people struggling to get ahead. Capping the maximum credit card interest rate is fair, common sense, and gives the working class a chance."
I'm just funning with you. That statement was not from Sanders, but from his colleague, Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.). He's one of the most pro-MAGA Republicans in the Senate. Here's what Sanders actually said: "We cannot continue to allow big banks to make record profits by ripping off Americans by charging them 25 to 30 percent interest rates." Do you detect any difference? Neither can I.
Sanders issued his statement in support of the 10 percent cap, which was proposed by Republican President-elect Donald Trump. Such is the contradictory world of populism, which increasingly resembles the Horseshoe Theory of Politics. The extremes of Left and Right inhabit the ends of a horseshoe rather than the opposite ends of a line. Their positions often are the same even if each side got there by a different ideological route.
For many years, classical liberals such as myself have looked for the libertarian moment—a time when the public understands the best way to ensure social peace and prosperity is to limit government meddling and promote free choice. Instead, we've arrived at the libertarian anti-moment, where the major parties have, to paraphrase the "Dr. Strangelove" subtitle, learned to stop worrying and love the Nanny State.
In my ideal world, politicians should advance a principled set of policy objectives that promote freer markets and less regulation, leaving cultural matters to individuals and their freely chosen communities. Not that long ago, conservatives talked about building the "just leave us alone coalition." It was a beautifully simple concept. We could build wide coalitions—from religious conservatives to left-wing hippies—based on everyone's desire to be left alone.
The progressive movement is best known for meddling in everything and trying to ban and cajole us. Instead of sticking with the idea of freedom, however, the MAGA movement has decided to echo its enemies, rally people around their cultural tribe and join in all the fun of regulating, mocking, and hectoring the American people.
The result is a never-ending grudge match, with whatever side is victorious using the government to stick it to the other side. There are exceptions, such as Trump's promise to slash federal agencies (something we've heard many times before but never amounts to anything), but overall this is a disturbing development.
Regarding credit-card policy, it's not hard to understand what's wrong with this new populist attack on the banking industry. Practically speaking, limiting rates to 10 percent will mean that only wealthy people with the highest credit scores—people who use the cards for convenience and to run up frequent-flyer points—will be able to have them. It also means improper government meddling in private transactions.
It's rarely wise to run up high-interest credit card debt, but for people scraping by it's a better alternative to payday lenders, car-title loans, and loan sharks. Even the pro-Trump Heritage Foundation last year noted that by drying up credit, the caps would "inadvertently deny temporary financial resources to families dealing with price hikes that outpace pay increases" and would result in "more defaults, bankruptcies, ruined credit histories."
But such sensible, policy-based retorts don't pass muster in a populist world, where ever-shifting positions key off of tribal loyalties (sticking up for the working class!) rather than principled evaluations. With Trump 2.0, this approach isn't confined to banking regulations but likely will be applied to trade policy even though tariffs are a punitive tax on consumers.
And it will apply to health policy, as Robert F. Kennedy Jr. takes the helm at Health and Human Services. That appointment perfectly encapsulates the GOP's new take on the Nanny State, as he vows to make us healthy again. I never thought I'd see the day the GOP believed the federal government can micromanage our eating habits rather than, you know, just ending subsidies and regulations that promote unhealthy eating.
Newsom is positioning himself as the head of the Trump resistance, but who knew that he'd have so much in common with the new administration?
This column was first published in The Orange County Register.
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Is this new shit MANGABA, or is shit MANGE?
Old “New Thang” MAGA make way for the NEW New Thang!!! MAGA meet MANGABA, Making Almighty NEW Government Almighty Bigger Again!!! All Hail MANGABA!!!
(Shit will also stimulate the economy by giving regulators, judges, and lawyers LOTS of NEW shit to fight about!!!)
Or...
MANGE… Making Almighty NEW Government Excellent!!!
There should be some sort of drug test required before posting. Both you and the author above. Putting aside childish TDS, the real threat of government control was from the democrats. The Democrat plans for government control actually scared the shit out of tech billionaire Marc Andreessen. So much so that he opted to support President Trump. As Andreessen related to Joe Rogan:
The AI thing was very alarming. We had meetings this spring that were the most alarming meetings I’ve ever been in. Where they were taking us through their plans, and it was – basically just full government – full government control – like this sort of thing, there will be a small number of large companies that will be completely regulated and controlled by the government, they told us. They said don’t even start startups – there’s just no way that they can succeed – there’s no way that we’re going to permit that to happen.
Soooo... That the Demon-Craps were having made Government Almighty FAR bigger FIRST... Makes it TOTALLY OK that "Team R" will then ALSO make Government Almighty FAR bigger ass well!!!
OK, I GOT shit now!!! Two wrongs DO (dooo-dooo!!!) make a RIGHT, for Right-Wing Wrong-Nuts!!!
Reason is becoming another arm of the DNC. Very sad to see their TDS literally winning over REASON.
I mean, the AI people kind of walked into that with some of the claims they made about what AI could do. They speculated that someday AI could solve all kinds problems in physics and engineering. If true, that would have all kinds of devastating military applications. These AI companies were saying that their technology would eventually be able to do insanely dangerous things, but still expected to be regulated like software companies instead of like defense contractors.
Fractional Reserve Banking is counterfeiting.
Reason Big Mad that the Fed and their Banksters are having their looting of the economy in any way restrained by the government that empowers their looting in the first place.
If you carry a balance on a credit card, you are retarded and should be subject to whatever interest rate the lender got you to agree to.
I sorta agree with you, but there are incidents where the lending practices veer into usury. Not that I think we need regulations for that, but it should be frowned on societally.
Why?
Because usuary exploits the stupid and desperate. Its not a crime to be unintelligent and people who parasitize them should be regarded as parasites and not upstanding people. Now notice that I didn't say that it should be illegal, and that I'm talking about usuary, not just charging interest.
What about casinos and state run lotteries?
Yes. I think those are bad things too. Taxation for being stupid. The governments are parasitizing people with problems.
Murderer's Lament (Suicide Farmer) says that the people must SUFFER-SUFFER-SUFFER, if (whenever) they should DISOBEY The PervFected, Infected, Neglected, Injected, Inspected, and Dejected SACRED WILL of Murderer's Lament (Suicide Farmer)!!!
ALL HAIL Murderer's Lament (Suicide Farmer)!!!!
HOW OFTEN do I need to explain to Ye PervFected hard-headed HATERS that Government Almighty is parasitizing people with problems?!?!?!
Hey conservatives!!! How about a “Grand Compromise”? Y’all give up your “abortion boners”, in exchange for lib-tards giving up their “gun boners”?
This looks like a prime opportunity for me to explain a few things I’ve learned on this planet, while becoming a geezer. A few things, that is, about human nature, and excessive self-righteousness, tribalism, the “rush to judge” others, and the urge to punish.
“Team R” politician: “The debt is too large, and government is too powerful. If you elect ME, I will FIX that budget-balance problem SOON! But, first things first! THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE GETTING ABORTIONS!!! We must make the liberals CRY for their sins! AFTER we fix that RIGHT AWAY, we’ll get you your budget balanced and low taxes!”
“Team D” politician: “The debt is too large, and I’ll get that fixed soon, I promise you, if you elect ME! First, the more important stuff, though: THOSE PEOPLE OVER THERE ARE OWNING GUNS!!! We must PROTECT the American People from guns and gun-nuts!!! AFTER we fix that RIGHT AWAY, we’ll get our budgets balanced!”
And then we gripe and gripe as Government Almighty grows and grows, and our freedoms shrink and shrink. And somehow, the budget never DOES get balanced!
Now LISTEN UP for the summary: Parasites and politicians (but I repeat myself) PUSSY GRAB US ALL by grabbing us by… Guess what… by our excessive self-righteousness, tribalism, the “rush to judge” others, and the urge to PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH those “wrong” others! Let’s all STOP being such fools, and STOP allowing the politicians OF BOTH SIDES from constantly pussy-grabbing us all, right in our urge to… Pussy-grab the “enemies”, which is actually ALL OF US (and our freedoms and our independence, our ability to do what we want, without getting micro-managed by parasites)!!!
Shorter and sweeter: The pussy-grabbers are actually pussy-grabber-grabbers, grabbing us all in our pussy-grabbers. Let us all (as best as we can) AMPUTATE our OWN nearly-useless-anyways pussy-grabbers, and the pussy-grabber-grabbers will NOT be able to abuse us all NEARLY ass much ass these assholes are doing right now!
Or do you ENJOY seeing extra tax money of yours endlessly wasted ass BOTH SIDES pussy-grab each other in grandstanding maneuvers that actually do us no good whatsoever?
The likes of Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer and Ron DeSatan spend OODLES of taxpayer dollars “making the libs cry” with UDDERLY stupid KulturKampf wars (“Drag Queen Shows” cum to mind), while said Libs spend OUR money getting their panties in a wad concerning should-be-free speech (“trigger warnings” etc. for the snowflakes) on campuses. And ONLY brilliant geniuses like me can actually see that we’re all, collectively, getting abused by letting the political pussy-grabber-grabbers, grab us by our pussy-grabbers!!! WTF will it take for us to WAKE THE FUCK UP?!?!?
You people are too stupid and too self-righteous to even see your stupidity and self-righteousness. I pity the fools! Keep right on letting the parasitical politicians grab you by Your Perfect Pussy-Grabbers, then, You Perfect FOOLS, and SUFFER the effects of your foolishness, till MAYBE one day ye will wake up!!!
The collectivist pussy-grabbers of BOTH SIDES reveal their evil, stupid, self-righteous pussy-grabbing… By pussy-grabbing each other, all day, every day! And their “leaders” abuse us all day, every day, by grabbing us all, right in our self-righteous pussy-grabbers, while we’d ALL be MUCH better off amputating our own useless pussy-grabbers!
Unread
The collectivist pussy-grabbers of BOTH SIDES do SNOT want to acknowledge their evils!!! Twat an UDDER slurprise!!!!
You resent the hell out of the fact that many other people are flat-out, better, more honest people than you are, right? More “live and let live”, and WAAAY less authoritarian?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-love-and-war/201706/why-some-people-resent-do-gooders
From the conclusion to the above…
“These findings suggest that we don’t need to downplay personal triumphs to avoid negative social consequences, as long as we make it clear that we don’t look down on others as a result.”
SQRLSY back here now… So, I do NOT want you to feel BAD about YOU being an authoritarian asshole, and me NOT being one! PLEASE feel GOOD about you being an evil, lying asshole! You do NOT need to push me (or other REAL lovers of personal liberty) down, so that you can feel better about being an asshole! EVERYONE ADORES you for being that asshole that you are, because, well, because you are YOU! FEEL that self-esteem, now!
^What Shillsy is trying to do here is called the Heckler's Veto.
EVERYONE ADORES You (Moose-Mammary Necrophiliac) for being that asshole that You PervFectly are, because, well, because You are YOU! FEEL that self-esteem, now!
Thanks Shillsy.
Same same. Robbing people who don't understand they're being robbed.
In fact I have a bigger problem with the Government doing this shit. Private actors doing it is asshole behavior but not Illegal behavior. There's actually a legitimate reason to force the Government to stop.
But what qualifies as stupid and desperate? Is this a discrete category or a sliding scale? And should all adults get an official stupid rating number so that others know what sorts of contracts they can legally sign?
But you did remind me of another idea. If some people are so stupid that they get into financial trouble (e.g. student loans or credit card balances), and then require confiscation of wealth from others in order to bail them out, is the net societal loss of freedom less if we prohibit the stupidity that gets them into trouble?
Don't need the government getting involved. A proper judicial system would allow handling enough small problems, and fast enough, that people could rely on it to look up prospective borrowers' and lenders' records to see how trustworthy they are, and people with lousy records could hire financial guardians to at least check their proposed transactions, and make it illegal to skirt financial guardians, much as it's supposedly illegal to skirt parents when dealing with children.
But what qualifies as stupid and desperate? should all adults get an official stupid rating number so that others know what sorts of contracts they can legally sign?"
You'll know it when you see it.
And again, I said I think society should frown on it as immoral, I didn't say laws should be made to render usury illegal.
Why is everyone talking like I said we need to make laws, when I explicitly said we shouldn't?
It's up to each person to decide if what they are seeing is exploitation or not.
How can you make society frown on something, and if you could, what good is it?
Where is all this talk of maked and forced coming from? I said it "should" frown on it. Of its own volition. Because it is the right thing to do. Not that it must be forced to frown on it.
I withdraw my objection.
Is it usury or high-risk so high-cost? We are talking about people that for whatever reason cannot meet the minimum requirements elsewhere.
Did someone put a gun to your head when you were taking that loan (or running up that credit card)? Did the bank change the terms of the loan without telling you ahead of time? If not, what is your basis to complain?
See my response to DLAM above. Just because I'm a libertarian and don't think it should be illegal, doesn't mean I think it's moral and right. I'm going to continue to regard usuary like scrotum piercing and meth use.
I had a cc company screw with me. Chase. They sent around one of those "transfer balance a 1.99% for the life of the loan" programs, and I had just put in a well and retaining wall, $60K at (I think) 3% or so. I knew the game; they were hoping I'd miss a few payments so they could jack the rate up. I didn't. Couple of years later, Congress decided to help me by requiring the minimum payment be at least some % of the balance. It was meant to "help" people with 20% rates but tripled my monthly payment and ruined the whole point of paying off a 3-4% mortgage and letting the 1.99% loan simmer. Then Congress decided their previous help hadn't been enough, and raised the monthly minimum again. Then Chase got into the act and raised the monthly minimum to 5%, which was flat impossible.
I talked to a lawyer, who said Chase would almost certainly lose for violating their own agreement, but it would take years and turn into a class action and take longer, and by then the loan would be paid off. He said forget bankruptcy; the judge would find out I had been just squeaking by with the previous monthly minimum, Congress had made it illegal to go back to the original (so much for the sanctity of contracts) and just restore the status quo ante.
So I called Chase and told them it was bankruptcy if they insisted on that 5% monthly minimum and they "agreed" to convert it to something manageable.
Most of it was Congress's fault, but Chase was real quick to jump on the bandwagon, and the courts made it practically impossible to do anything about it while it still would have made a difference. It was yet another lesson in why governments suck.
Chase bank is gay too.
If only sarc had told me!
The only bank that circulates three dollar bills.
Did someone put a gun to your head
Stupidity is a gun to your head that's always there, from cradle to grave.
Back when I was a broke college kid; i had a big bank f with me. It was just a checking account with an atm/debit card. It was a student checking acct by big bank A but then big bank B bought that bank and took it over.
As part of the takeover paperwork/account changes the new bank reserved the right to re-order transactions. For simplicity, lets say my balance was low and I took out say 60dollars on Wed from the ATM and my new balance was 40.00 On Sat I make a 60dollar deposit and use my debit card and spend 50 or something... well they would re-order the transactions in such a way that the deposit wouldn't be credited until several days later and then say when I used my debit card (after the deposit) i overdrew my account and they charged me a 29.99 fee. Then that fee would go back in time to make some other small transaction (like a $4debit at mcdonalds or something) also be NSF and charge another 29.99 fee.
It was a straight confusing mess and I ended up closing the account not soon after. But it was tricky as fuck in the meantime and I was an undergrad student who didn't know better... but it was predatory behavior that is likely now illegal as it was basically fraud on me. But i was poor college kid and what the f was I going to do to them?
They got my ridiculous fees and i was a bit more broke than I should have been.
On the one hand, your Canadian side is showing.
On the other hand, given public education and/or general economic awareness, yeah, there's a decent case for more liberal voiding of unconscionable clauses and contracts.
I should add that, even for fully functional adults, the whole credit (card) construct assumes everything else to be predominantly or largely on the up-and-up, which Rocket Money and new card-on-file and similar mandates demonstrate not to be the case. Akin to how the credit-default swaps and sub-prime lending was propping itself up for a while.
For business purposes, I'm required to maintain some redundancies, a much-detested-ISP who shall remain nameless, about once a year, attempts to double-bill me and/or charge a late fee and service fees despite the fact that the payments are automated. They're counting on people not to check on their payments until the end of the quarter or end of the year when it's too late to claw the money back. I know this not because I know this specific company does this as practice but because I do business with other companies for whom this won't appear as the primary business model on the books but for whom it's a significant or primary source of income.
Similarly, people talk about "What if a self-driving car hits someone?" but there are already questions about about other software and business contracts (and I'm not talking explicitly about DAOs) that have essentially been set on autopilot.
You say "exploits the stupid" but, every libertarian should consider or keep in mind that, compared to several hundred peer intellects, every individual is, or can be, a moron and the assumption that the market is inherently moral and won't just whimsically lock everyone in their homes or march a bunch of people off to the gulags and debtors' prisons based on their (social) credit score is foolish.
With the exception of say for a house (at least 20% down and no greater than a 15-year note), or a situation where Murphy's Law kicked in big time (say an extreme medical situation), borrowing is retarded. The banksters will do what they do. Chumby prefers to put the peer pressure on prospective borrowers.
Yes, there are situations where it's worth the risk. If I had not put needed dental work on credit cards when I was young, I would have no teeth today. It was worth paying the interest to avoid that, even at the risk of default. And, when I was young, there were times I had to borrow for auto repairs in order to keep my job. Again, risky but worth it.
Yes, and if interest rates were capped, that line of credit would not have been available to you.
At that time, interest rates were about where the proposed caps are.
There wasn’t as many defaults. Circular? Perhaps.
Chumbo, you alone are not going to force Americans back to the 50s and earlier and use retard(ed) It's a slur, it's unkind and it's not nice. Try a little constraint on your brain, though I know but WTF.
I found the retard!
Anyone defaulting on student loans should be given an opportunity to serve as green power at the oars of a climate-friendly galley.
Hawley is an empty suit who will say literally anything to pander to voters. There's a 0% chance he actually wants to implement that cap. Also, many "libertarians" today will happily do whatever Daddy Trump wants them to do. To them, big government is great so long as a corrupt game show host is in charge.
Cite?
"Also, many "libertarians" today will happily do whatever Daddy Trump wants them to do."
Who? If it's many you must have an example.
That's why it's in quotes.
Basically every paleocons here who fakes like they are libertarians. There’s this one called Mother’s Lament …
Hey White Mike, still pretending you're not a Nazi?
Keep coping.
"...Also, many "libertarians" today will happily do whatever Daddy Trump wants them to do..."
Besides which, there are a huge number of TDS-addled shit-piles who spout lies like this.
Stuff your TDS up your ass and then FOAD, asshole.
Stop replying to the obvious troll who probably writes for this rag anyway.
It’s almost as if (*GASP*) Libertarians agree with Conservatives!
This blows your mind, huh?
So you attempt to denigrate by saying ‘daddy’ - weird projection you got there.
Conservatives yes, populists no.
Borrowing money at 30 percent is just plain stupid short term or long term. Best thing I ever did was get out of debt. But capping rates also just plain stupid. If you can't afford it do without.
The market rates are a response to all of the people who don't even attempt to pay their debt. It's the debtors that are the problem more than the lenders (regardless of how much profit they make.)
Then capping rates would cut them out of the market. Seems like the problem would be solved.
Point taken. I'm fine with it.
Capping rates would cut them out of the lawful market. The black market would boom.
No it wouldn't. That's not the intention. So that could never happen.
Ideas™ !
Still fine. Hospitals will make a killing replacing kneecaps
"Capping rates would cut them out of the lawful market. The black market would boom."
EXACTLY! Make selling ANYTHING illegal and people will find a way to buy it illegally. Everywhere and always.
So it's perfectly fine then for government to ban everything, and only prosecute selected (R) violations.
/sarcjeff
Uh how do you know this?
The irony is that the exorbitant rates are also brought about by government. Government disallow these companies to set rates based on any sort of metric for the most part, forcing acceptabce of those likely to mi's payments or go to bankruptcy. They do this under the guys if racial equality.
The DoJ Civil Rights groups have sued lenders for declining to extend credit. A lot of this shit started under Clinton and ramped up under Obama.
So once again this "solution" is a "solution" to a problem government caused.
Let banks offer lending to who they choose without the threat of lawsuits based on race and people coupd compete for better rates.
And fix the judicial system so it doesn't take years and $$$ to get justice from banks which violate their contracts. Same as with Big Tech. Same as with everything else. When it takes years to resolve simple problems, that's not justice, and all it does is breed socialists who think the solution is more government.
Banks are no longer subject to the judicial system. You agreed to arbitration when you got the credit card.
That's not what the lawyer said. AIUI, arbitration is for disputes over individual charges, not for violating the terms of service such as raising the monthly minimum. It was also 20+ years ago, and I don't know how any of that has changed.
Capping interest rates will dramatically reduce lending by banks and will be a windfall for the loan shark lobby.
What are loan shark rates? The average interest rate on a CC is 25%, seems to me that is in the loans shark area, but I may be wrong.
That is penalizing the people who aren't doing this consistently or have a bad month, it's as though you want poor folks the ability to lose everything.
Once their situation has deteriorated such that they can't meet their regular expenses, they're going to lose everything. Usurious lending just prolongs the process a little, and allows the lenders to grab a cut before it's too late.
So you would deny the lenders the right to charge a rate that reflects the risk they are taking with their own money? And deny the borrowers access to funds they need in an emergency? I guess they can always steal stuff or turn tricks on the side, but I don't see how that's better for them or society.
Is that what I wrote?
If you're dumb enough to drive up a bunch of credit card debt then use one of the many debt consolidation programs. Credit card rates are ridiculous because so many people default on it. Blame it on the dumbasses.
Hawley is wrong, but this is a dumb example to drive the both sides argument he is trying to make.
I wonder why people default on credit cards
Because they are impulsive retards. Live within or below one’s means.
For some people, their means fall below survival level. They go into debt as a way to survive next month, without the luxury of long-term planning. Borrowing is grabbing at a straw—it delays their destitution briefly, but doesn't stop their fall.
That is what they tell themselves to justify their behavior.
Yet many other people with same means consider those means above survival level. And many of the people running up the most debt have relatively high incomes, or they wouldn't get so much credit extended to them in the first place. They overspend to try to impress other people, or to enjoy experiences or to accumulate stuff before they can actually afford it.
It's rarely wise to run up high-interest credit card debt, but for people scraping by it's a better alternative to payday lenders, car-title loans, and loan sharks.
In terms of private debt accumulation, this is a distinction without a difference.
And for the record, letting payday loans exist is the proof that the government doesn't care about private debt.
"Letting" payday loans exist is what markets do in the absence of government nannies. What makes you think government should be able to make those decisions for other people on your behalf?
Common sense.
Progressives are the ones trying to ban payday loans. They would rather people starve or have to resort to prostitution to pay their bills than to get an emergency loan that reflects the level of risk the lender is taking.
Payday loans exist because government artificially cuts off a larger than necessary segment of the population from more reputable loans based off their risk profile.
Usury laws are a product of the nanny state? That's a new one.
They are a product of busybodies. Nannies. Nanny state.
If you don't believe in individual rights and accountability, say so.
"Usury laws are a product of the nanny state? That's a new one."
Suggest you start a search for another brain cell; the one you have isn't working.
By all means, keep phoning in these BOAF SIDEZ.
You're on a libertarian site.
Prove it!
One must read the comments to get to the libertarian tier of this place.
Chumbyer words were never spoken.
Better yet, read only the comments.
The writers aren’t Libertarian - they are TDS addled shits.
The Commentariats are the Freedom lovers.
Democrats did it first, that makes it ok.
So many ideas™ !
What are you babbling about? Your little troll doesn't work in every scenario.
Dodd-Frank caused these rates you economic imbecile. But instead of repealing the cause your beloved GOP is going to make it worse. But it’s ok. Democrats did it first.
So you blame R instead of D because R won't repeal a D problem.
How perfectly cromulent!
No, that’s not at all what I said. But I can see you’re really excelling under Jesse’s tutelage at becoming a lying cunt. Bravo. You are a great student.
Ideas™ , not people.
You just invoked Dodd-Frank as a rebuttal, retard.
You didn't write this?
Let me paraphrase that, and you tell me how I paraphrased it incorrectly, mkay?
Then you accused me of blaming Republicans while absolving Democrats. Thing is, I would have said the same thing (instead of undoing a bad law the party in power will pass more bad laws, but that’s ok because the other team did it first) if the parties were reversed. However you’d still spin it into me blaming Republicans. That’s why I’m calling you a lying partisan cunt under the tutelage of the poster boy for lying partisan cunts. Won’t be long and you two will be indistinguishable.
Poor sarc. Trump has broken him.
I'm pretty sure he's just a drunken retard who repeats whatever bumper stickers he read in the last week.
See how he ramps up incorrect word choices after reading it here.
Definitely a raging drunk.
Woulda-coulda-shoulda, as opposed to did. Sorrycasmic waffles again.
What's really going to be interesting is seeing what kind of excuses you'll have starting Jan 20. You've been blaming R while D is in power; will you switch to blaming D while R is in power?
Not bloody likely.
You are a good student. Jesse is teaching you well. No I haven’t been blaming. That’s the job of partisans. I’ve been pointing out the complete and total lack of principles on the part of Trump defenders when they defend things they would scream and yell about if the other team did it by mockingly saying it’s ok since Democrats did it first. As in two wrongs make a right winger. The part you miss is that I say it’s wrong no matter who does it, while Trump defenders only say it’s wrong when Democrats do it. Whatever despicable thing it happens to be. Keep this up and you’ll be lying partisan cunt just like your teacher.
There is a lot of the word “you” in that post.
I say it almost daily but self-awareness is not Sarcasmic's super-power.
people who use the cards for convenience and to run up frequent-flyer points
Do not most people merely use credit cards for convenience, and pay their bills in full, every month?
Supposedly just over half do that. So the half that do carry a balance have an average of around 16k in cc debt. Idiots.
None of my or the governments business.
Idiots? Or just inattentive? After using a card for years for remote purchases, one month I just forgot I had a bill outstanding, and the lender arranges to make it hard to clear the balance, by carrying over a late fee and/or interest as a trigger to charge interest on the next month's balance, so I wound up with a balance until I could go a month without using the card. Granted it wasn't a large amount of money, but surely a lot of that statistic of those who do carry a balance in a given month are cases like that.
Yes, they apply payments to the most recent charges first, so it can take months to reach the old charges at the bottom and clear the balance.
Many smart people do, but about a third carry credit card debt. Financial illiteracy abounds, including in Congress. See Warren, Elizabeth or Sanders, Bernie for details.
I only use my credit cards when there is an emergency expenditure. Something along the line of a one time auto repair such as the transmission for example. I then seek to pay it off asap and will cut back on other expenditures as much as I can. I rarely carry a balance for more than a couple months.
My credit cards pays me to use them. I earn more cashback than I pay them. And I do not pay them. They probably lose money on me. My average monthly payment is >$2000. Every dollar put in the card is matched in another account. If the money is not there then it is not spent. I have many backups savings for transmissions, etc. so I do not worry and I do most of any repairs myself.
They make money off you still. Stores raise prices to pay the 3-5% processing fees to credit cards. You get back 2-3%.
So yes. You're paying higher prices more than your cash back. But even without using CC, you would be paying higher fees anyways. Very few stores and services discount cash payments.
Last I heard, it was illegal for stores to post lower prices for cash. I don't know how gas stations get away with it, but some around here (northern CA) are not accepting any cash any more.
Difficult to rob a store that has no cash.
Yes, but doesn't explain why gas stations can post separate prices but other stores couldn't.
One of my first lessons n government was as a kid reading about some CA legislature hearing about the difference between food and snacks in vending machines. Peanut butter or cheese crackers were snacks if pre-assembled, but if the peanut butter or cheese was in a tub separate from the crackers and the package came with a little plastic spreader, that was food, and they wouldn't tax them.
Government is grifters, start to finish. No sane person can understand them any other way.
Think about thick envelopes being pushed across the desk.
My understanding, and please correct if wrong, is that cash discount is a state (note small "s") regulated issue, much like some states prohibit self-serve.
I am old enuff to remember when in Florida, some gas stations had 4 separate prices for a single grade- combo of self/full serve, cash/credit payment.
Apart from state law, offering discounts for cash violates the terms of the businesses' agreements with the credit card issuing banks. So does requiring a minimum purchase amount to use a card. But everybody does it.
Go to a Panera in California. If you buy a bear claw or bagel to eat in the restaurant, it gets taxed. If you buy the same bear claw or bagel to take home to eat later, there's no sales tax, because it's considered a grocery purchase.
It is legal in Arizona. Have a number of stores who offer discounts for debit or cash including gas stations that advertise it.
I just had a big expense that charged 3% for CC use. Tried to pay with debit but banks were closed so couldn't authorize the large charge. Was pretty damn annoyed.
A lot of that happens under the table. My auto mechanic gives a 10% discount for cash payment. That violates the terms of his agreements with the banks, but plenty of businesses get away with it.
Yes, I've paid for a lot of work that way. I'm sure it's illegal, but I hope they fail to tell the IRS in addition to the state.
Criminal behavior that goes unpunished. Donald Trump on a small scale.
Yes, I know this, but 60% of my transactions are fixed fee expenses. I will do cash when there is an option to pay less. I paid cash for my last firearm purchase partially for this reason. Which is apparently legal here in Iowa as several places offer this. Another trick is to use my free bill pay and transfer money directly to other's bank accounts. I pay my lawn mowing/snow shoveling guy this way. Put the money directly into his account thru a bank transfer.
But credit cards also add a near-universal tax on all purchases, as vendors pass on the transaction fees. Sure, some people can recover this with various card perks, but that just brings them back to even. And all other people get to pay the "tax", even when they pay cash.
And guess why? Governments forbid price differentials. At least in California, probably others, or maybe it's the feds, I do not know. But stores are forbidden from charging more for credit card purchases, probably debit cards too.
Government is always the problem. They don't fix squat.
Basically if you have a decent credit score, you can sign up for a 0% interest intro rate every 18 months or so and then carry a balance on it as long as you make sure to stay on track for paying off the whole thing by the time the intro rate ends.
So yeah I'm currently carrying a balance on two of my cards: one I just opened and the other where the 0% rate is coming to a close in a few months. Dave Ramsey has a decent point where these sorts of cards have a tendency to cause people to spend more than they should, but I feel I'm doing better than average in that regard.
It is around 2% even for above 800 scores at the moment. Plus transfer fee.
Just stop spending more than you make. Life gets easier.
I do. But the thing is, if I have a $2,000 balance on a 0% interest credit card and $10,000 in an account making 4.7%, why on earth should I take $2,000 out of that $10,000 to pay off the card?
I'm not arguing by any measure this is how things ought to work. I get that this shit artificially drives up prices. I'm arguing that since I can't actually fix the way things work, I have to do the best I can within the idiotic framework we're stuck with.
I see absolutely zero benefit to me paying cash (or equivalent) for everything. I have no car payment and have liability only on my 16 year old car. Again I don't like this system, but until we get a better one I play by the rules that are set.
It wasn’t directed at you personally, just a general statement.
I took out a $50,000 line of credit from my credit union at 2.75% for home repairs. I could see inflation coming (Inflation Recovery Act) and it made sense to borrow at the low rate. My predictions on inflation were correct and I spent about $20,000 on materials for a deck, siding, and a vew Hvac system, Paying it down slowly now. Sometimes it make sense to borrow. I also have a car payment that I could easily pay off now but at 1.8% interest why would I? It will be gone in 10 months anyway.
I do, for 30 years.
ALL politicians, by definition, think they know better than everybody else what everybody else.
That's the first approximation, and a good general guide. Just as knowing lawyers like to quibble and shrinks like to babble.
Second approximation is that some, a very few, actually are trying to rein in government. Rand Paul comes to mind. I don't follow his career in any detail, but everything I've read of him involves trying to cut back or limit government.
Anyone who feels the need to single out any particular politician as being a statist has lost track of the basic theme and is just wasting my time.
I hate this populist shift, but Greenhut has no one but himself and those of his like to blame for it. I have watched Greenhut for decades as he writes for my local paper. Democrats have held a super-majority for 12 years in this state, and there hasn't been a Republican governor since Ahhhnold. And yet, Greenhut cannot help himself but to write article after article after article about how icky those republicans are.
Greenhut will never give them credit for when they do the right thing. When they stand on principle, they will be obstructionists. When they compromise, they will be sell-outs. When some dog-catcher in rural bum-fuck-egypt says something stupid, Greenhut will hold them up as the standard-bearer of republicanism.
The realignment of opposition to include Gabbard, RFK Jr, Trump and Musk is a direct result of these gate-keeping games that journalists have played for YEARS. Greenhut has spent so long saying that Republicans aren't worth his time that they stopped caring about what he and his crowd were saying- they were never going to get a fair shake, anyways.
The threat of "excommunication" only works if the target has some confidence that they will be allowed inside the church. For the last 20 years, the journalists overplayed their hands. Gabard, RFK Jr, and now even Bernie Sanders have figured out that they never had a chance inside the Elitist circle. And so they stopped listening. And guess who they found willing to listen? Donald Fucking Trump. It's disgusting, but there we are.
That's it. Principles guide me the same way a crow flies, but when the road curves around a tree or cliff, you better swerve pragmatically. I vote against incumbents, against new laws, against all spending. But California has a super majority of Democrats, and if the only viable non-incumbent is a Democrat, I hold my nose and vote Republican. When the only viable alternative to Kamala is Trump, I hold my nose and vote Trump. Not that my vote will matter, but I'm tired of the Democrats bleating about the non-existent national popular vote, so here, Democrats, have a national popular vote orgy.
Principles are a guide. Sometimes it makes more sense to vote pragmatic than principled. Sarcjeffsullum are so TDS-addled that they'd vote for the real Hitler or Stalin or Mao before admitting that Trump is a better pragmatic choice.
If Trump is a mere pragmatic choice, then your standards are unrealistically high. We're (always) in a pragmatic world, these are always the choices before us — in all walks of life.
Yes, that's my point.
If you think Trump has any principles, or think he is a principled choice, then you have no principles.
Trump reminds me of Aaron Burr. Alexander Hamilton's character in the Broadway musical ends up having to decide whether Burr or Thomas Jefferson gets to be the 3rd US President. Jefferson and Hamilton agreed on, well, nothing. But Hamilton made Jefferson the President. In the words if Hamilton in the show, which accurately represent the beliefs of the historical Hamilton, "Jefferson has beliefs. Burr has none."
It's disgusting, but there we are.
Even at that, given P. Diddy, Epstein, Weinstein, Cosby... not *that* disgusting.
Not that I think Trump floats like an angel above all of that but even those people mostly kept their disgusting features generally to themselves and/or their social circles and avoided the abject grotesqueness of "We need BJ books and castration chemicals for 3rd graders as State/National education policy." Grotesqueness that this very magazine carried all the "Don't Say Gay" water it could on behalf of.
There used to be an excuse for the BOAF SIDES business. It was 50 years ago, when libertarians were at pains to distinguish themselves as a tendency — when Nixon, Rockefeller, Javits, etc. were the face of the GOP, "conservatives" were the traditionalist vanguard emerging as the Christian "Right", and even the Wall Street Journal was pap. The Cold War dominated all sides of the Establishment, while as Jerome Tuccille Sr. wrote, the New "Left" was leaving behind its dalliance with tolerance, and blowing out the remainder of their brains with psychedelics.
I'm afraid regime libertarians have reverted to that mode as they saw the "right" improve so enormously over the decades as to dry up funding for Cato, Reason, etc. When the GOP has moved so much in the direction we wanted, what's the point of spurning them in favor of...whatever we got here?
When it comes to my vote, I can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Especially when voting against whatever the fuck those goddamn Prog Democrats come up with.
Facts. The Jordan Peterson said “this was a vote about the nature of reality”.
Prog / Dems wanted total Orwellian Statist control of people’s lives.
That shit is easy to vote against!
Back in the dark ages, that is before 2000, the Republicans used the clarion call of "The Big Tent Party" which resulted in G W Bush's catastrophic reign and then the "counter revolution" of Barack Obama which was really only an extension of every Bush mistake.
Trump's new Big Tent has the huge risk of history repeating itself. No party could contain both Ron Paul and Dick Cheney nor will it contain Thomas Massie and Josh Hawley.
"The Big Tent" is not the repudiation of ideology, but the repudiation of reality. When logic and facts are abandoned, the results depends on the whatever way the populist wind is blowing.
The tent will always be big if they want to win. It has to be bigger than the other team's tent.
Republicans know what a Woman is.
End of argument over ‘which side acknowledges reality’.
You do not know what a woman is.
You're right, which is why you see the likes of Cheney shilling for Democrats right now today.
The suckers think that Trump cares about them.
I have yet to hear _anything_ to suggest RFK Jr. is going to force us to eat anything. What I have heard is that he wants to stop what the Government is currently either forcing us to eat, or subsidizing foods that he believes to be unhealthy.
I have yet to hear him say it will be illegal to drink fluoridated water or high fructose corn syrup or canola oil. I have heard him argue that we should stop mandating or subsidizing the stuff.
^+1
I doubt most of Kamala’s fans carry any credit card balances.
People of color keep stacks of cash in their houses to pay their bills. Ask Fani.
Noice
"I have yet to hear him say it will be illegal to drink fluoridated water or high fructose corn syrup or canola oil. I have heard him argue that we should stop mandating or subsidizing the stuff.
He has consistently called to stop the subsidies and nothing more, but the Chemjeffies of the world know a 'dog whistle' when they hear it.
Just about everything he's said lately is exactly what libertarians want: transparency and choice.
That's how leftists see government power—anything that is not prohibited is required.
Flouridated water IMPROVES dental health and there is nothing wrong with canola oil.
I'm old enough to remember earlier this week when Axios' CEO said you need fancy credentials to be a journalist, so let's see what his professional journalists have come up with for Thanksgiving.
Did anyone expect Yale to do anything else?
Yale University hosts ‘Transgiving’
Jeffy smiles.
I would advise any young person who really wants to go to an Ivy to declare themselves trans or nonbinary. I have no doubt this will astronomically boost their chances of getting in and they can always choose to keep their cis parts if/when they decide to retransition.
Did they serve up tranberry sauce?
Can they keep their giblets?
Where do they think up these ideas?
Christian National Socialist Republican nanny Staat? There must be some mistake. Nick just interviewed a has-been CIA Trumpanzee who assured him that making alternatives to gin, cigarettes and (subsidized) fentanyl legal is silly. Kicking down doors, shooting dogs, kids and adults because some informer thought he smelt weed isn't really coercion, but authoritarian wokeness, THAT's initiation of deadly force plain and simple, because Kamala.
Kamala got beat like the two-bit ho she is.
If you'd like to learn more about the Biden administration debanking disfavored people and companies -->
The scale and organization if this debanking thing is truly horrific. I knew stuff like this was happening to the odd conservative wag and the truckers, but I didn't know they were using it to stifle entire industries like crypto and new platforms.
The people in government operating this need to be punished so harshly that the establishment is scared to do it again for at least another century.
But Republicans might be kinda lukewarm on some usury laws!
What are the odds we'll see a Reason article on this?
TDS Reason.com; NO it’s Liberals and Democrats who want the Nanny State, NOT Conservatives and Republicans.
Next!
Yeah, I agree Zip, but there are social conservatives out there who no doubt will take advantage of the situation and try to do some government nanny stuff, for their own personal benefit. Like where they passed some law to teach religion in government school (Oklahoma if I recall) and some guy got his bible chosen as the one to be bought, who had the foresight to ask for the Trump family endorsement (can't outlaw celebrity endorsements, there's money to be made). A problem that only exists because government schools exist.
The problem with the article is it assumes Trump won't be talked out of these positions (thanks to Rand Paul for taking a principled stand on the issue) by someone who explains the anti-freedom negatives of some of his ideas. Trump is at least smart, and we can count on him listening to his advisors.
Trump has "proposed" some anti-freedom stuff, which I far prefer to the anti-freedom stuff the Dems have been DOING, often without telling us (censorship, which they denied doing) while their proposals are even worse anti-freedom stuff.
You are trying to guise a ‘yeah but TRUMP!’ post as being in agreement with my post by including half-sentence on Democrats.
I don’t know you, and we aren’t friends, and I don’t agree with what you’re saying. You sound like a potential Lefty shill.
For the rest of the audience, I stand by what I said; DEMOCRATS & Liberals are the Nanny Statists from what I see.
Not defending Haley, but I would point out that the big banks have taken plenty of handouts from the government, they kind of have to expect the government will inturn demand something from them.
There is a fundamental problem in that many financial institutions have been so deregulated that they are now Too Big To Fail and have to be bailed out when their financial problems put the entire economy at risk. But libertarians and libertarian adjacent people have supported the very deregulation that allows for TBTF.
I'm disinclined toward the proposed rate cap. That said, the average American has credit card debt of approximately $37,000 (at least that's a number I heard quoted by Dave Ramsey). Mind you, that's just credit card debt and includes people like me whose credit card balance is $0.00. And the average credit card rate is about 23%. Again, I'm not calling for or supporting a cap. But, it's ridiculous to pretend this isn't problem.
And, as long as libertarians want to bury their heads in the sand, rather than offer up a liberty-enhancing alternative (perhaps liberalizing the rules around those defaults, bankruptcies and credit histories - the current bankruptcy regime was pushed by Joe Biden at the behest of the credit card companies), I can't say I'm all that surprised that people favor nanny state solutions.
We should definitely not have any special rules that only apply to banks. Of course, since the business model of banks is called fraud and counterfeiting when a non-bank does it, that would mean they'd all be put out of business.
The result is a never-ending grudge match, with whatever side is victorious using the government to stick it to the other side.
Hey, jackass, conservatism warned you about this. We probably could have gotten though 2020-2024 with Trump as President. But then Leftists hijacked the election, installed a bowl of tapioca pudding to be their face, replaced him with a race-swapping gibbering retard that literally everyone hated and didn't want for election season, enraged everyone on the right in their vindictive campaign against an orange clown (who you failed to literally kill twice) and anyone who remotely liked him, and then committed a pathetic version of digital seppuku on TikTok when it all went tits up.
This all falls on the laps of the Progressive Democrats. They are unhinged psychopaths who are so obsessed with their own power that they're no longer capable of connecting with an actual human being, and their so-called "progress" is nothing but raping and mutilating children, cowering in fear of their sun god, and pretending that criminal aliens are "America" somehow absolves them of it all. And that inability to connect is what Trump dominates you on. Even if he's 100% full of it, he succeeded where you utterly failed.
Republican Populism was the direct response to Progressive Democrat Insanity. You were happier to side with Juggalos and Pedophiles and Satanists before you were willing to even listen to normal Americans. You wouldn't work with Conservatism, and you made very clear your overt hatred for Christians and Jews. So now you get Trump.
F'ing own it.
Start with an APOLOGY maybe. And an admission that you should have just listened to the conservatives this whole time, you ignorant self-destructive dolts.
Y'know I've never been a Trump supporter. I was an OG #NT from the beginning. Because I'm a Conservative (and a Catholic one at that), and I know darn well he's not. But you know what, now that folks like me are the marginalized ones, now that we really get no meaningful say in anything - N. G. L. I will absolutely make no effort to stand in the way of Trump/MAGA feasting on the entrails of the dead-but-doesn't-know-it-yet Progressive Democrat party.
F you. Liberal Democrat (including all you Reason folks cosplaying as libertarians) days in America are now numbered.
Good.
"Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.). He's one of the most pro-MAGA Republicans in the Senate."
Hahahahahahahahahahaha....
Hawley is a RINO (Republican in Name Only) because he thinks just like a Democrat under the [R] label.
>Republican Populism Aims To Expand the Nanny State
When Republicans do it it is 'populism' - and 'populism' is bad.
When Democrats DO THE EXACT SAME THINGS its our elites properly managing democracy - the adults are in charge - and thus good.
Reason is freaking out that R's are talking about capping interest rates - but they weren't all that concerned when the D's were debanking (non-sex work) people.
It was only a problem when it affected the sex workers.
Well, the libertarian moments of open borders and manufacturing nearly everything in China or Mexico or someplace else (Yes, I'm sure we make something, but go to a Walmart and try to find something made in the US, even the Yankee candles are made in Viet Nam) has not created the paradise you have promised.
People might be able to afford cheap electronics or other crap that is poorly made and breaks in a short time, but they can't afford homes.
This is nothing new for Republicans. They have always loved Big Government. Compassionate conservatives!
Yup. The last principled small-government Republican was Barry Goldwater. Since then they've been just as willing as the D's to spend like drunken sailors whenever they get control of the levers of government.
Americans want Big Government. Goldwater lost in a landslide.
LBJ won because of the national wave of grief after JFK's assassination. LBJ had been in office just a couple months when it was time for the '64 elections to start gearing up. There's no way he would have lost.
The title says it all.
Long TDS.
So my Grandma was right; if you can't pay cash, you can't afford it.
More "both sides bad" derangement. Both sides are certainly bad, but the nanny state is mostly coming from the progressive/puritan side who wants to ban everything and force one nationwide rule on everyone.
What did Reason magazine do when the Republicans leaned libertarian during the tea party movement? That's right, they dinged them constantly on immigration and not being sufficiently libertarian enough. They made only passing mention to the media defaming them as the American Taliban and inciting violence. They refused to take advantage of the "libertarian moment" by even slightly compromising on wedge issues and form coalition with likeminded allies.
Suppose that libertarians massively voted for Romney, just as many Latinos did for Trump. Even if he lost narrowly, the GOP would have gotten the message - the only way forward was free market and compromise on social issues. It's no small poetic justice that immigrants voted for "restrictionist" Donald Trump. But it's also logical. You can't expand your brand without doing SOMETHING to appeal to those outside the tent.
The rag whines constantly about the GOP betrayal and Mises takeover. They just don't get it. They don't get that people don't like losing. Or that they don't subscribe to "both sides bad" when one side is demonstrably worse than the other. They don't get that most people don't consider a government regulating the borders as nanny state government overreach. They don't get that most voters will support reasonable government regulation to ensure unvaxxed people can have access to commerce or dissenters to have voices on tech platforms.
Trump's entire business empire has been dependent on Big Government. The small government advocates who voted for him were suckers.
Oh bullshit. You’re a lying moron. His business empire doesn’t work that way at all. You don’t understand business, just your marching orders from Media Tatters.