Maduro Is Bad for Venezuela and Bad for the U.S.
His rule threatens U.S. interests by stifling market opportunities, fueling illegal immigration, and elevating regional security risks.

Despite an authoritarian regime's efforts to obstruct free and fair elections, Venezuelans turned out in large numbers to vote for their president last Sunday, hoping for change amid widespread political repression and a humanitarian crisis. The U.S. is deeply implicated in this turmoil, as the disputed election results underscore significant geopolitical stakes and can have a significant impact on American interests.
A government-controlled electoral commission declared Nicolás Maduro the winner of the election, claiming he received 51 percent of the votes. Yet exit polls and tallies by the opposition indicate that over 70 percent of Venezuelans supported the opposition candidate, Edmundo González.
Governments around the world have denounced the election as fraudulent and demanded evidence of Maduro's claimed victory. Leaders such as Argentine President Javier Milei and Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni have expressed their solidarity with the Venezuelan people's desire for change.
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken has echoed these concerns, claiming that the election results do not reflect the true will of the Venezuelan people. On Thursday, Blinken affirmed that the U.S. recognizes González as the legitimate winner of the Venezuelan elections.
Even left-wing governments like Brazil and Colombia are pressing Maduro to substantiate his claim of victory, but no such proof has emerged. In a bigger turn of events, the Carter Center, one of the few entities invited to observe the Venezuelan election, condemned the electoral commission for its lack of transparency.
Protests erupted nationwide in response to the disputed election, with thousands taking to the streets. Several statues of former socialist president Hugo Chávez were toppled in the unrest. Clashes with security forces have resulted in hundreds of arrests and at least 17 deaths.
Strategic Concerns for the U.S.
Supporting the democratic aspirations of Venezuelans is crucial for U.S. interests. A free Venezuela will address key U.S. policy concerns such as the rise in illegal migration, untapped market opportunities, the growing influence of Iran and China in the region, and security risks for international commerce in the region.
Should Maduro remain in power, migration to the United States from Venezuela is expected to surge. Surveys show that over 40 percent of Venezuelans plan to leave the country if Maduro continues as president. This potential influx of refugees could strain U.S. immigration systems and social infrastructure, posing a major humanitarian and logistical challenge.
American firms will also miss out on substantial business opportunities in Venezuela if Maduro stays in power. The country's vast reserves of oil and uranium represent untapped markets that could enhance U.S. energy security. Investing in Venezuela's oil industry could help diversify energy sources and reduce dependency on unstable or unfriendly regions, leading to more stable energy prices and a reliable supply of oil for the U.S. market.
Maduro's continued rule will also likely increase the presence of U.S. adversaries such as Russia, Iran, and China in the region. Iran plans to expand trade with Venezuela to $20 billion per year, China is heavily investing in the country, and Russia has signed multiple military agreements with the South American country. As Venezuela continues to distance itself from the democratic world, one can only expect these relationships to strengthen. And having a rogue state relatively close to the U.S. border represents security concerns to American businesses and international trade in general.
To address these challenges, American policy makers need to adopt a more strategic approach. The current administration has focused on negotiating sanction relief for the Maduro regime in exchange for promises to hold free and fair elections. But this has proven insufficient, producing no positive changes in Maduro's behavior.
A new foreign policy approach should include a reassessment of institutions such as the United Nations and the Organization of American States. For years, these institutions have systematically failed to uphold the rule of law and human rights in Venezuela. Additionally, U.S. policy makers should establish measures to prevent regimes from exploiting international treaties and cooperation agreements. This includes sectors like finance and energy, where regimes have undermined democratic nations' interests. Finally, the methodology and effectiveness of sanctions should be reassessed. Despite a series of sanctions imposed by the U.S. on countries like Venezuela, Russia, and Iran, the International Monetary Fund projects economic growth for all these nations in 2024.
Failure to address these issues risks empowering autocrats around the world, jeopardizing U.S. national security, economic performance, and diplomatic standing.
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This kind of thing could never happen here.
He's bad for your mom.
But still seems completely irrelevant to the US, except, of course, for Spiritus Mundi's mom. (Who I am presuming is American.)
Most secure election in history according to Democrat standards.
Illegal immigration is bad now?
Double plus good now, comrade!
Oh wait, I didn’t mean to say that!
Jamie raskin is trying to claim Maduro is right wing. It is amazing.
https://x.com/RepRaskin/status/1819438900529483794
Doesn't realize is Maduro is using the exact same arguments as Sullum and democrats did in 2020.
He said "right wing attack" you dumbass.
Democracy is leftish - you know all that one-person "every vote equal" Shangra-La perfect world stuff.
Obviously Maduro is thoroughly corrupt and is looting the country for crony benefit. It is just another reason socialism never works. Top men are invariably corrupt.
It is like Donnie J Maduro here in the USA. Throwing his base a puny tax cut to salve their bloodless hearts while the meaty tax cuts go to the wealthy.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
You and your sock SRG have been using some really retarded talking points lately to cover for democrats while not being democrats.
How is anointing the presidential candidate without a single electoral vote democraticish?
How is locking up your political enemies democraticish?
Lol.
It is always amazing seeing how you retards get more retarded as your lies and control collapse.
WTF are you babbling about?
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Your entire world view collapsing and you become even more retarded. The fear you have that the leg twenty be able to legalize your pedophilia.
I’m thinking his accusations of day drinking are projection.
Lol. Sarc rushes in to defend his lefty boo.
How's your sobriety working buddy? Did you even read Raskins post or waiting to hear what Jen Psaki tells you?
Oh absolutely. He does spend a very large amount of time here commenting. Maybe he doesn't even have a job, he just cashes his welfare check at the liquor store and then goes home to drink and yell profane things at anonymous people on the Reason comment forum.
That is your problem...how?
Not sure why you'd care, but you do you.
"That is your problem… how?"
Um, we pay taxes for the welfare bennies of the ne'er-do-well JesseSpaz? Does that not count... For... Reasons?
Fuck off, Sqrlsy.
Fuck off, Sqrlsy.
Now let’s see you make that comment next time the troll brigade dogpiles on someone who isn’t on team Trump with comments like that. I’m kidding of course. You’re too cowardly.
Cries about being called a leftist for pushing DNC narrative seotbout thought, continues to call everyone else team Trump.
Jeff and sarc love their hypocrisy
“the troll brigade dogpiles on someone”
But YOU are the troll brigade, Sarckles. When you’re not stealing nicks and spoofing, you’re shitposting, socking, and trolling. You’ve often said so yourself:
sarcasmic 3 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Because annoying you is fun.
sarcasmic
August.12.2021 at 4:45 pm
Flag Comment Mute Use
I only show up to watch the clowns duke it out while tossing in this or that provocation. Bread and circuses. This is my circus.
sarcasmic
September.10.2021 at 12:14 pm
I like to stir shit up. So what.
sarcasmic 3 hours ago
Flag Comment Mute User
I didn’t say my goal was to prevent a fight. Again you’re getting your premises wrong. I said my goal was to mock what someone wanted to say to prevent them from saying it
Mother’s Lament 2 days ago
You ran a sock impersonating me too, for a whole week, you drunken cocksmuggler, and I have the links to prove it.
sarcasmic 2 days ago
So? It’s still hilarious to see you all hurt and offended. Makes me smile.
You really are amazing Sarckles, but not in a good way. There aren’t too many folks out there that are as big of hypocrites as you. How you and Lying Jeffy found each other in this great big internet is also something special.
Quoting cherry picked comments from three years ago?
Get a life. Seriously. You’re pathetic.
How much have you been drinking? You get extra shrill in the evening.
And that first one from three hours ago. Wasn’t me. But you know this. That’s why you don’t post links. If you did a simple mute test would prove you to be a liar by omission.
You think you’re clever but you’re not. You don’t fool anyone. Even my hate club knows you’re lying. Not like they care because they also liars.
That and you’re obsessed. Over a stranger on a comments section that no one reads. How much energy do you waste on me? Pathetic.
Get a life.
sounds like he wants to be unbound from his past comments
IIRC he said he works for a government contractor. I wonder if they know what he does all day. They must because there’s no way he accomplishes anything.
Thats why I keep getting promoted and have never been homeless drunky, lol.
Whats funny is when you tried to compare knowledge of physics, engineering, math, or coding with me and embarassed yourself.
You and Jeff can say whatever you want but it doesn't matter because nobody respects you enough to care about your opinions.
But you two hold each other tightly pretending your gaslighting with leftist narratives accomplishes something here. Amuses me to no end.
Wait, Jesse gets his paycheck from stolen taxpayer dollars? Figures.
Stolen how jeff? Is it stolen when government purchases something?
This is a weird narrative given you are defending taking money to give directly to other people without a good or service occurring.
Almost like you’re an idiot leftist. Weird.
I'm not an anarchist dumdum.
And he works less than an illegal immigrant for it.
Big words from an alcoholic fry cook and former vagrant.
sarcasmic
January.17.2022 at 10:11 am
I was homeless for a half a year.
"He said “right wing attack” you dumbass."
Raskin
"The democratic world must stand up for the rule of law in Venezuela and oppose Maduro’s assault on the electoral process and free speech. The right-wing attack on democratic institutions anywhere is a threat to freedom everywhere."
You choosing to read that as Maduro only using a "right wing attack" reminds me of this exchange from the 70's show.
Fez - "Its just my Danish pride"
Red Foreman - "Oh, so you're Danish!"
Fez - "No, just my pride"
Oooh, look at shriek defending his fellow Democrats again.
Jamie Raskin would make Stalin’s propaganda minister blush.
What happens is Venezuela is despicable and predicted. But it doesn't threaten the US except by US politicians taking advantage of it to push their own policies.
Stop pretending Uncle Sugar is the world's policeman. You can't help those who won't help themselves. This is a Venezuelan problem. They got themselves into this mess 20-30 years ago by voting in a socialist, they are voting against the socialist now, and maybe this is their lesson to the world. But it is their problem to solve.
This 100%. Anyone trying to deceive Americans into believing that this is a US problem is a bigger problem for the US than Maduro is.
Yeah, my first thought after reading the headline was 'so, what, you're going to send the CIA in to do some regime changing'?
There isn't a great solution there for all those countries bitching about Venezuelan elections. They complain about the bullshit Russian elections too, but nobody does anything about that either. Those are just two out of hundreds of countries that either don't have elections, or have sham elections. The only reason people give a flying fuck about Venezuela is oil, yet we readily do business with the King of Saudi Arabia who has literal sex slaves even in their U.S. embassies. Every once in a while you read about one escaping, only to be returned with a 'sorry' note.
These types of articles feel like they are written by CIA agents who are just itching to whomp up public support for clandestine regime change in countries that don't put up with our shit. Sure, those countries are bad actors too but that is really none of our business unless we make it our business. Hooray, globalism?
Yeah, save for the fact that Venezuela is exporting all the idiots who voted for Chavez to the US, I can hardly give a squirt of piss for the country itself, its elections, and how they were conducted. It isn’t our problem, and the idea that it should be is just neocon retardation about "universal principles of freedumb."
Hundreds of countries don't have elections? Where is this? Not on planet earth.
1.1M paid out attached to NDAs to hide cases of harassment while Kamala was AG in California. This is at least 34 felonies. These were paid out as she was running for new terms or the senate.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-kamala-harris-attorney-general-settlements-20190301-story.html
Unfortunately, she did that in California so New York can’t do anything about it.
Although Bragg has proven to be quite creative…
DHS IG finds DHS under mayorkas was deleting evidence related to J6 after the J6 committee ended and the GOP was set to take over the house.
Julie Kelly
@julie_kelly2
NEW: DHS IG confirms in report that the Biden/Mayorkas DHS significantly stonewalled his J6 investigation.
Texts deleted, cell phones of top officials presumably including Kim Cheatle were wiped.
Data never recovered
Under questioning by
@RepThomasMassie
, Bennie Thompson, chair of J6 committee who pretended his mission was to investigate Jan 6, reluctantly admitted the texts were deleted and it represented a violation of Federal Records Act.
He did nothing about it
Rep. Massie suggests the deletions--made between Feb and April 2021 under Sec Mayorkas--represented criminal obstruction of Congress since Democrats had sent preservation notices to all agencies prior to the alleged "device migration" process.
Thompson again seems unconcerned
https://x.com/julie_kelly2/status/1819409392371892367
Jail Mayorkas. The man is a criminal many times over.
The man deserves a lot worse than jail.
Kamala spent 11 days refusing questions from the press after her soft coup. Her first response when talking about the prisoner swap...
“This is just an extraordinary testament to the importance of having a president who understands the power of diplomacy and understands the strength that rests in understanding the significance of diplomacy”
She’s so fucking stupid. No wonder they don’t want to let her near a microphone.
She’s definitely not stupid. She was smart enough to sleep her way to where she is now, and you don’t navigate California politics just by virtue of the identity boxes you check.
To the extent that she opens her mouth, she sounds a lot like a college junior bloviating in an essay to get the word count up, but that’s mostly an effort to obfuscate the marxism she's spewing.
So when are Biden and Harris going to apply those top shelf diplomatic skills toward getting Hamas to release the American citizens they are still holding hostage? Funny how we never hear about them. And who builds an "aid pier" for a group that is holding Americans hostage?
She has another one today.
“No longer are you keeping those private files in some file cabinet. It’s on your laptop, and it’s then therefore up here in this cloud, that exists above us. It’s no longer in a physical place.”
But jeff says Trump is afraid to debate her brilliance.
But jeff says Trump is afraid to debate her brilliance."
DID HE REALLY???
Jeffy never fails to take it way too far. Wow.
results underscore significant geopolitical stakes and can have a significant impact on American interests.
Exactly what are these interests?
Citgo? Their dirty tar oil?
Bush/Cheney and the oil lobby can go suck each other off. This isn't 2003 you know. Thanks to our newfound all-time high energy independence of 2023.
turd, the ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Isn't Saturday your day to loiter around in the Tenderloin, Sevo?
turd, the TDS-addled ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Is Saturday no kids day in the district? Is that why you aren't there today?
Remember when Hugo Chavez and Obama were praising each other?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qReVGFLuz3M
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2013/03/05/statement-president-obama-death-venezuelan-president-hugo-chavez
What changed buddy? You have said you loved Obama.
What's up, Peanuts?
By the way, the great Biden Bull Market ended this week. Bull market leader NVDA is being taken out and curb-stomped.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS0addled lying pile of lefty shit.
Haven't you been praising Bidens economy by talking about the stock market for 3 years?
I'm sorry, but Reason magazine has informed me that illegal immigration is good.
The free movement of people is libertarian.
turd, the ass-wipe of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.
Stealing from taxpayers to fund them to 170B a year is not.
You're right! It's not!
Now, let's look at all of the other theft from taxpayers.
How much theft from taxpayers is there to fund all of public education? More than $170B.
How much theft from taxpayers is there to fund all of the entitlements? More than $170B.
How much theft from taxpayers is there to fund all of government-subsidized health care? More than $170B.
So you and your team whine and whine about the $170B figure (which is a grossly distorted figure by the way, it includes the cost of public education for the *children* of immigrants even though those children are very often US citizens themselves) while saying next to nothing about all of the rest of the welfare state.
Because the REST of the welfare state goes to the "correct" people - citizens.
And there is a candidate running, who advocates what you ask - reduce the welfare state, AND have freer immigration. Yet you and your team reject him. Because the real issue was never about the welfare state per se. It was about the immigrants themselves, and how they don't deserve to be here no matter how little they steal from taxpayers.
That's your revealed preference: you are rejecting the guy who wants to let the immigrants in and reduce the welfare state, in favor of the guy who wants to keep the immigrants out and keep the welfare state.
“while saying next to nothing about all of the rest of the welfare state.”
All he does is lie.
I am against all welfare. Jeff has been told this by me dozens of times. I even use existing welfare for citizens as an issue against job displacement for citizens from illegals.
Jeff, like every leftist here, relies on lies.
So let me be clear jeff. I am against all forms of government welfare. I can give you examples going 10 years back. One of the earliest is when you said government was forced into welfare because you thought Americans didn’t contribute to charities at your preferred level. I laughed my ass off and mocked you for that one.
So let me be clear jeff. I’m against all forms of government transfers of income.
So I guess you’ll lie about this again tomorrow.
Unlike you and sarc I've never been dependent on it. Didn't even apply for FAFSA which I qualified for.
I’m against all forms of government transfers of income.
If that is true, then why do you spend ~99% of your time bitching about the welfare going to immigrants, which is a very tiny part of the overall welfare state? I absolutely believe it is because you see the welfare going to immigrants as qualitatively different than the welfare going to citizens, based on the identity of the immigrants themselves.
I even use existing welfare for citizens as an issue against job displacement for citizens from illegals
And once again, your opprobrium for welfare going to citizens is necessarily connected to illegal immigration.
It's not really about the welfare itself. It's about the identity of the recipients.
Jeff, are literally retarded?
I mention immigeant welfare in context of you demanding open borders and welfare spending on them you dishonest fuck. I also constantly talk about reducing all forms of government spending you dishonest shit.
You claim to want honest discussion but you have zero shred of honesty lol.
It is not a tiny sliver of the welfare state. Even those here legally have higher rates of welfare you dishonest lying fuck. Hundreds of billions a year. It isnt a fucking sliver. Nor is their crime rates rare. Another thing you lie constantly about.
And then you finish with a straight out lie despite me being very clear about the issue. Because once again you are a lying leftist shit weasel. It is amazing how freely and with pride you lie. Just amazing.
It is not a tiny sliver of the welfare state.
lol
Your figure for welfare spending on immigrants: $170 billion (which as I stated, is already an inflated number)
Total spending on Social Security and Medicare in 2023: $2.3 trillion
So your inflated figure is about 7% of the total spending on entitlements. Tell me again how much of a huge deal it is compared to all of the rest of the welfare state.
Even those here legally have higher rates of welfare
Sure, if you dishonestly present the statistics, as CIS routinely does. They compare all the immigrants to all the native-born citizens without regard to socio-economic status, family size, education level, or other important factors. It is like if I compared you to Bill Gates: if you send your kids to public school, but Bill Gates does not, I would conclude that Jesse is a bigger welfare mooch than Bill Gates. This of course ignores the fact that Bill Gates can afford all the private school he wants, so it is not a fair comparison. But the lying demagogues at places like CIS don't want you to make these types of connections.
Nor is their crime rates rare.
The violent crime rate for illegal immigrants is about the same as the violent crime rate for native born citizens. That is what the data from Texas showed. The violent crime rate for legal immigrants is even lower.
"Oh, but the Lott study!!!" The Lott study that you routinely cite is GARBAGE. It deliberately overcounted the number of individuals classified as 'illegal immigrants' and from that came to a bogus conclusion that they commit more violent crime. This has been pointed out to you over and over.
But I totally understand why you think that immigrants get this HUGE AMOUNT of welfare, or you think that immigrants are committing this HUGE AMOUNT of violent crime, because that is how right-wing media propagandizes you and you lack the critical thinking skills to be able to dismiss their obvious fictions.
He does spend a very large amount of time here commenting. Maybe he doesn’t even have a job, he just cashes his welfare check at the liquor store and then goes home to drink and yell profane things at anonymous people on the Reason comment forum.
Jeff talking about himself.
Generally Social Security and Medicare are not considered welfare programs but entitlement programs since a vast majority of the beneficiaries paid a dedicated tax for their entire working lives to be eligible for it's benefits.
A definition of welfare
Welfare is a term used to describe the benefits distributed by governmental entities to support low-income Americans. The benefits paid to the poor include cash or in-kind benefits such as food or rent vouchers. Both cash and in-kind benefits are included in the general definition of welfare. The programs that define welfare are often termed antipoverty measures. Welfare programs in the United States are run at the federal, state, and local level
Means Tested / Contributory
The common element of all welfare programs is that they are means-tested. To qualify for benefits, the individual or family must have income from jobs or self-employment below a defined level. Income above the means-tested level means the individual or family does not qualify for benefits. The qualification levels are unique per program. All Welfare Programs are free to participants – no past contributions or taxes paid are necessary to qualify. These two elements, means-tested and non-contributory, define the programs as welfare.
https://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-definition/
Next any money paid to illegal aliens as welfare should be stopped. Government benefits should be limited to those here legally and most specifically to citizens.
Wow. So much bullshit in one post.
I’ve given you the links on yearly spending. Massachusetts just came out today warning about their spending on the issue. 7% of entitlement spending, and growing, is not a sliver. Ignoring the extra costs from legal immigrants is not a sliver. But then again youre a bog standard leftist. You’ll cry about 50B in tariffs and then justify 170B on illegals plus much more for legal immigrants, non citizens. It is roughly 10% of current deficits for fucks sake. The demand addition also drives part of the inflation. But you hate facts and evidence.
The violent crime rate for illegal immigrants is about the same as the violent crime rate for native born citizens. That is what the data from Texas showed. The violent crime rate for legal immigrants is even lower.
So not rare. And since crime is cumulative, it is additional crimes. Again, not rare. Just surprised you didn’t bring up the Texas study which is debunked as it used data before citizenship was determined. Lol.
But I totally understand why you think that immigrants get this HUGE AMOUNT of welfare, or you think that immigrants are committing this HUGE AMOUNT of violent crime, because that is how right-wing media propagandizes you and you lack the critical thinking skills to be able to dismiss their obvious fictions.
Said right after you casually dismiss the issue. This us so fucking strange. I give you facts and evidence and you claim it is a narrative while using standard marxist narratives to dismiss the facts and evidence you are provided.
Again. Youre a dishonest shit weasel. You think your narratives are facts while dismissing facts as narratives.
Youre a very dishonest person jeff. Hilarious watching you lie to yourself and try to convince yourself youre right.<
7% of entitlement spending, and growing, is not a sliver.
Yeah it is, in the big picture. Again, IF the issue is the amount of money that the immigrants are consuming via welfare, then their consumption of ~7% of the problem doesn't justify the absurd emphasis that you and your team put on the issue of illegal immigration. Because - as I said - *it's not really about the money*. It's about the identities of the people receiving the money.
It is roughly 10% of current deficits for fucks sake.
Do you not even understand, that your $170B figure, is not only an inflated figure, but it represents 'welfare' spending over ALL levels of government, not just at the federal level? So if you really want to put it into perspective, you would have to compare it to the total budgets of all levels of government. Comparing it to the federal budget deficit is just absurd. I might as well compare Bill Gates' net worth to the federal budget deficit. Who cares.
So not rare.
Violent crime from immigrants is about as rare as violent crime from native-born citizens. So why then does right-wing media go apeshit bananas over every instance of violent crime from an immigrant? Because they, and you, want to exaggerate the problem to scapegoat the immigrants as being a violent scourge upon the country. It's evil and wrong.
Just surprised you didn’t bring up the Texas study
I did bring up the Texas study. You didn't even read my response, just put forth a bunch of talking points I suppose. And how exactly was that study 'debunked'? Do you have a link?
This us so fucking strange. I give you facts and evidence and you claim it is a narrative while using standard marxist narratives to dismiss the facts and evidence you are provided.
On this issue, you literally do not present data or evidence from sources other than right-wing-approved ones. YOU are the one pushing narratives about immigrants which are quite frankly harmful and destructive, painting them with a broad brush as being a bunch of welfare moochers and violent thugs. It's sick and wrong. As evidenced by the fact that you continue to push the bullshit Lott study - because that is a part of the socially constructed right-wing reality, even though it is bullshit in objective reality.
If that is true, then why do you spend ~99% of your time bitching about the welfare going to immigrants
Well, we're making progress. We've at least gone from "immigrants don't use welfare" to "Ok, well, they might not use as much as those guys!"
Second... the welfare we have is for citizens of the nation who-- at least at some level have some investment in the country and... AND THE most important part: Welfare for citizens creates a limiting principle for the size and scope of your welfare system. When you give welfare to literally everyone in the world, that means your welfare has no limiting principle and the taxpayer who fund it are at the point of a gun to fund the world's poor.
I mean, how arrogant do you have to be to demand free healthcare from Canada if you were an American citizen? I'm trying to imagine the reaction from Canadians had I stuck my finger in the woman's face at the front desk at the Canadian clinic when I broke my wrist there and said, "The free movement of people is a human right, I'm not paying the bill!"
Cmon man. Jeff will prove there is a limiting factor. 6+B people! Most who have never contributed to it.
Well, we’re making progress. We’ve at least gone from “immigrants don’t use welfare” to “Ok, well, they might not use as much as those guys!”
If you define ‘welfare’ like CIS dishonestly defines it, then yes immigrants use welfare. The reason why their definition is dishonest is that (a) they include things like school lunch programs at public school for children of immigrants, who are very often US citizens and not immigrants, but the kids’ costs are held against the parents as if the parents were welfare moochers; and (b) the parents are compelled by the state to send their kids to school, so they have no choice in the matter. If they broke the law and didn’t send their kids to school, they are called “illegal lawbreakers” but if they do send their kids to school, they are labeled as “welfare moochers”. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. That is the absurdity of what these anti-immigration groups do.
And I don’t think anyone here has ever claimed that immigrants use ZERO welfare. It is commonly pointed out, however, that immigrants are forbidden from using federal welfare benefits, and that they only legal welfare benefits that they might get come from the state level, that the feds don’t have a whole lot of control over. I’m sure there’s probably more than a few using stolen identities to access benefits fraudulently. But be honest, how big of the problem do you think welfare use by immigrants is compared to the welfare use by native-born citizens? If you listen only to people like Jesse and the right-wing media, you would be given a false impression that they represent most of the problem, when in fact, it is a tiny fraction of the problem.
Welfare for citizens creates a limiting principle for the size and scope of your welfare system.
I am not advocating that welfare SHOULD be handed out to the entire world. I am simply pointing out the scope of the problem as it currently exists. As things stand right now, there is some welfare that goes to immigrants (legal or illegal), but the vast majority of welfare goes to native-born citizens. And yet the Jesse crowd spends ~99% of their time bitching about the welfare that immigrants use when that represents a tiny tiny part of the problem.
And I absolutely contend that the reason why they do, is not because of the dollar amount, but because of the identities of the recipients. If they think that ~95% of the welfare goes to citizens is bad, they think that ~5% of the welfare going to noncitizens is EVEN WORSE because it’s going to the ‘wrong people’. It’s not about the theft that taxation represents, it’s about who gets the money.
“If that is true, then why do you spend ~99% of your time bitching about the welfare going to immigrants, which is a very tiny part of the overall welfare state?”
LOL, what? They’re the vanguard of the welfare state. CA used to be a red state as recently as 1988. The influx of immigrants turned it into a permanent blue majority, and the lefties from Latin American and Asia has dragged the democrat party to the point of Marxism.
Have you seen housing and rent prices in CA? Unless you’re upper class, you literally cannot live here without government welfare or support of some sort. Go to section 8 housing or social security office and most people there will be blacks, Asians and Latinos.
I’m Asian and I’m close to many Asian doctors, nurses, lawyers, etc. They’re cream of the crop. For every one of them, there are probably 3,4 elderly Asians who need all kinds of government assistance. Their command of the English language is poor and if they have skills, it’ll limited to balkanized zones like Fullerton or Koreatown.
Please don’t tell me you’re so naive as to think illegals or legal immigrants who don’t qualify for welfare don’t get one. Getting welfare in this country is a matter of hiding countable income. There are other ways to do it, which I won’t detail here. If you have kids, nothing more needs to be said.
You know very little about immigrants, other than what the MSM tells you. You think migrants come here without knowing how to take advantage of the system? Most immigrants who come here need all kinds of help – from their relatives, friends, church members, government, etc. That doesn’t make them bad people, but invariably they are takers. And SS and medicare pays out 3 times what people put in. Do the math.
He knows so much about virtue signaling though.
Jeff has the type of virtuous behavior that is signaling his support of government wealth transfer as he donates zero time or money himself.
I for one am shocked that someone might think that their tax dollars should be spent on citizens first, even while loudly criticizing the way they’re spent on those citizens.
Pro tip: if you want to come at people, you might want to have a memory longer than a goldfish’s. Because everyone here, except maybe the avowed commies, has taken that spending to task multiple times over the years.
What about the free healthcare, housing and other unlimited welfare options? Is that libertarian? Is it? Is it?
Look. If you would just sign your paychecks over to illegal immigrants, the government wouldn’t have to force you to do so – actual jeff argument.
Wait, what? The worst thing about Maduro is that he is bad for business?
Or that our borders are so insecure that half of his 'subjects' are going to end up in Texas.
At least the gangs and prisoners.
In related news Bidens parole program flying in immigrants is full of fraud.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/immigration/3109040/biden-dhs-halts-immigration-program-fraud-claims-migrants/
You can always tell when shit has gotten rough there as our strip clubs get inundated with hot Venezuelan “dancers”.
At least that’s what my friends tell me. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
That’s probably what Koch told them to say.
God what a coward. Trump backed out of the Sept. 10 debate, and now agrees to a Sept. 4 debate, but only if it is hosted by Fox News, there is no fact-checking, and there is a live audience. The only way he thinks he can 'win' is if the game is rigged in his favor ahead of time.
To her credit KamKam hasn't agreed to it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-kamala-harris-debate-fox-news-abc-news/
To Biden's credit, he agreed to the exact same conditions.
Russian: "What's so great about freedom of speech?"
American: "I can stand in front of the White House and yell "Biden sucks!"
Russian: "Big deal. I too can stand in front of the Kremlin and yell "Biden sucks!"
Except Biden also included no studio audience, canned questions, and so on.
Look at Lying Jeffy shit out todays leftist talking point.
Totally not a Democrat.
And let's see ... Kamala declines to appear before the black journalists meeting, even in Zoom. Trump shows up in person and has to wait 35 minutes because of "technical difficulties" if they are to be believed. Not a peep from you.
Trump has said he'll debate the DNC Presidential nominee. Kamala isn't said nominee yet.
Yeap. This is the standard leftist narrativr they are wounding. Trump never agreed to debate kamala. He agreed to debate Joe using Joe's rules. Joe dropped out.
The 2nd debate agreed to is after many states start voting. This is why dems are desperate to use that date. And they want friendly ABC.
Trump has already agreed to the earlier Sept 4 debate on Fox. Kamala has not.
But jeff is just here to push the DNC narratives he finds following Sulu and Katie Hill.
Trump has said he’ll debate the DNC Presidential nominee.
How do we know Trump is telling the truth? I mean, Trump says stuff like he’ll be dictator for a day, or that if he wins we won’t have to worry about elections anymore, or comparing illegal immigrants to fictional cannibals like Hannibal Lecter. And I’m told over and over that we can’t take Trump seriously here, he’s joking, he’s being hyperbolic, he’s playing N-D Chess or something.
So how do I know whether or not to take Trump seriously in this case? Maybe he is just trying to blow smoke up everybody’s ass.
"How do we know Trump is telling the truth?"
He put forward a location and date. Kamala has not done the same.
"I mean, Trump says stuff like he’ll be dictator for a day, or that if he wins we won’t have to worry about elections anymore, or comparing illegal immigrants to fictional cannibals like Hannibal Lecter. And I’m told over and over that we can’t take Trump seriously here, he’s joking, he’s being hyperbolic, he’s playing N-D Chess or something."
...or that you should actually watch the video and not just go over what Vox says happened.
You could do that.
"So how do I know whether or not to take Trump seriously in this case? Maybe he is just trying to blow smoke up everybody’s ass."
You specifically cited the date and network he offered. If Kamala is too cowardly to do so, c'est la vie.
There’s lyin’ jeffy again, can’t tell jokes from his backside. Did you also wet your pants when Reagan joked about the bombing starting in five minutes?
KamKam (gosh, you’re on such good terms with her) promised she’s show up for that black journalists convention, then changed it to Zoom, then backed out of that. Trump showed up. Please tell us again which one is more trustworthy.
Hey look, more leftist talking points!
Hey jeff. Trump already met for one debate on the demanded terms of the democrat. Fact. He already agreed to the fox debate with barely any modified terms. Fact. Kamala just came out refusing to participate demanding the agreement he had with Joe. Fact. Joe is no longer the candidate. Fact.
Why do you incessantly push the DNC narrative here day after day after day? Yes. This was the talking point leftist twitter pushed out the last 2 days. Ignoring actual facts. You repeat it blindly like a partisan shit weasel. Lol.
If kamala wants a debate why is she refusing the one Trump agreed to after Joe stepped down?
He already agreed to the fox debate with barely any modified terms.
lol, "barely any modified terms", like two real important ones of having biased moderators and a live audience to cheer and boo. Sure, "barely any".
Why won't Trump commit to the exact same terms with KamKam as he did with Biden?
Who are the biased moderators he asked for? Names, please.
An assertion Lying Jeffy has no intention of backing up. He heard the left say it, so he’s repeating it. Because that’s his job.
Jeff is ignoring the question for some reason.
Jeff is a dumbass. Simple and clear explanation. And a DNC lover.
You know what, Jeffy? You're just a pathetic whinging liar.
Aww poor alphabet. I said mean things about Trump.
Why are you so upset that I say mean things about Trump? Do you take it personally?
Do you think libertarians should be 'in the tank' for Trump? Do you think that it ought to be our job to be virtual campaign surrogates for Trump and defend him?
Do you think Kamala has a chance debating against trump?
I think BOAF SIDES is a dual-edged weapon, if you get my drift, and I wish you did, if you get my point.
Yeah, I'm sure he's very worried about having to debate Kamala Harris, who hasn't ever put a cogent thought to words, that I'm aware of.
That last debate against his previous opponent, who also couldn't form a coherent sentence, went so poorly for him. Probably shaking in his loafers.
In the 2016 primaries, Trump did the same thing when he was far ahead.
This isn't a new behavior, Trump just knows when he has a strong hand.
Trump already agreed to debate her at an earlier date than she wants. And he wants and audience.
Trump's last debate killed Bidens candidacy.
He absolutely has the clout to demand what he wants out of Kamala.
Jeff, why do you blindly push every DNC narrative? How is agreeing to an early debate and having an audience cowardly. Youre such a party flag bearer of the DNC.
Youre such a joke lol.
His agreement was with Joe who set conditions to try to fix the debates. Not with kamala you retarded leftist fuck. Those agreements don't carry over.
He wants the earlier debate because of when early voting starts in some states dumdum.
Such a fat leftist joke.
As I said. He wants to rig the rules before the debate even starts.
I am sure that if KamKam agreed to a debate on MSNBC with Rachel Maddow and Joe Scarborough as 'moderators', you would say that is a fair proposal, right? No of course not. You would denounce it as trying to rig the outcome, because she's a coward and can't debate him honestly on fair neutral terms. Well guess what, same deal here. You're just too much of a moron to see it.
"As I said. He wants to rig the rules before the debate even starts."
He made an offer. She has, of course, not done so.
"I am sure that if KamKam agreed to a debate on MSNBC with Rachel Maddow and Joe Scarborough as ‘moderators’, you would say that is a fair proposal, right?"
Bret Baier is infinitely more fair than either of those idiots. But you do you.
Jeff is open being a DNC shit weasel these days. His arguments can be found all over democrat Twitter.
"DNC shit weasel" is Jesse-speak for "anyone who doesn't accept the Team Red socially constructed reality"
Then who are the biased moderators Trump demanded?
Or is just being on FNC proof enough that they are biased?
Come on, be the shill you know you want to be!
No. It describes you jeff. Citation. Just today you pushing the DNC narrative blindly and making excuses when called out. More citations. Following Sulu and Katie Hill on X.
You've lost any mask you ever thought you had here. It is why I generally don't fucking respond to your idiotic takes because most of Reason does. Congrats, after 10 years you tricked a drunk homeless moron from Maine. Lol.
It's not a "DNC narrative" to dislike Trump. That is you just dishonestly framing all opposition to Trump as motivated by partisanship. Guess what, lots of people can hate Trump without being Democrats and that includes me.
Following Sulu and Katie Hill on X
Funny how you don't mention all of the other people I follow on X. You know, people like Dave Smith, Todd Hagopian, most of the Reason contributors, LP National, and, mainly, a bunch of chemistry nerds. Of the 300+ people that I'm following, you could point to maybe 10 who are left of center. But that is you distorting the truth to push a narrative. Which is what both tribes do.
Um, you are still a dumbass. You prove it every day here.
Rig what rules jeff? Having an audience and a debate before voting starts in some states? I get why you would hate that.
God damn youre a partisan idiot.
He already debated once on your party's terms retard.
Why should there be any change in terms at all? Why isn't Trump sticking to exactly what he agreed to with Biden?
Answer: Because he is trying to renege on his word and trying to rewrite the deal on terms more favorable to him.
"Why isn’t Trump sticking to exactly what he agreed to with Biden?"
Biden broke the agreement. The whole dropping out thing.
There is no agreement now.
Jeffy wants Biden to make a public ass of himself again? And he thinks Trump is afraid of that? There are levels of stupidity, but in some cases, it takes a careful calibration of equipment to measure how abysmal it is.
Why should there be any change in terms at all?
So youre fucking retarded. There was a change the second Biden dropped out you dumbshit
Now answer the questions youre avoiding answering shit weasel.
If Trump was willing to debate Biden under the original conditions, why should Trump not be willing to debate KamKam under those exact same conditions? If they were good enough for Biden, why are they not good enough for KamKam?
So, if you make an agreement with one person, you must make the identical agreement with literally anybody else.
Logical.
Jeff isn't the smartest act blue shit weasel.
Lying Jeffy just compared Bret Baier to Rachel Maddow and Joe Scarborough.
That really says a lot about Lying Jeffy.
When did Trump agree to debate Kamala Harris? I remember him agreeing to two debates against Joe Biden and Trump destroying Biden so badly in the first debate that Biden tapped out of the campaign altogether but I don't recall any agreement versus Kamala Harris. I have seen where Trump has offered to debate Kamala Harris but she has not yet agreed to any debate as of yet.
And of course there is one candidate who stood defiant after an assassination attempt and there is one candidate that has yet to hold a press conference where actual questions are asked. Which one is the coward?
"Trump says he agrees to Fox News debate with Kamala Harris on Sept. 4"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-agrees-to-fox-news-debate-with-kamala-harris-on-sept-4/ar-AA1o9X4b?ocid=BingNewsSerp
According to the article, Trump agreed to hold a debate with Fox News, under those specified conditions, but didn't come to an agreement with KamKam.
So Kamala is too cowardly to debate Trump is what you're saying.
Trump already played by your teams rules during the first debate. Why are you democrats so scared to have an audience. Lol.
Trump already played by your teams rules
No, Trump played by the rules that both his team and Biden's team mutually agreed to. They weren't anyone else's rules.
But wait, you really do think Trump played by "the other team's rules" last time around? Why would he do something like that? Was he tricked into it or something?
He did.
The Sept 10 debate was ALSO agreed to by Trump's and Biden's team.
You know whose team was NOT involved in the negotiation?
The person you are crying is being left out here...Kamala.
Hillary took sniper fire!
And the pundits just missed knocking leakin' Joe to the ground.
"God what a coward."
Man never shot calls man who was shot "coward". Nice.
"Trump backed out of the Sept. 10 debate"
BIDEN backed out of it.
"now agrees to a Sept. 4 debate, but only if it is hosted by Fox News, there is no fact-checking, and there is a live audience."
Kamala too cowardly to do it, eh?
Yeah, no fucking shit. You'd have to be some weapons grade retard to say "you backed out of a debate with
Joe Bidenour candidate yet to be named."Backed out of what debate? Does the DNC allow switch-hitters now?
In Lying Jeffy’s defense, he doesn’t get to choose what bullshit is in his morning email.
I knew this would be his dumb liberal argument when I saw the full bore leftist twittersphere light up with it. Jeff is a loyal but retarded soldier.
It's more of a pinch hitter.
But it would be interesting to see what sort of bad parody of a right-wing position Kamala and team might try to present, if those were the rules.
Trump agreed to debate Biden on Sept. 10. KamKam has said she is willing to abide by those same terms and debate Trump on that date. Trump is the one trying to alter the deal and back out of it by attempting to rig the debate conditions to be more favorable to him.
He has the stronger hand, why wouldn't he?
Oh, I think he should absolutely debate Biden on September 10th.
This
The modern term is designated hitter. (even when he misses)
Which fits quite well, since she was designated, not nominated and elected.
I’d like to see your reaction to getting your ear shot off, Chemjeff.
It takes no courage to type anti Trump agenda on a message board. Trump appeared on many MSM platform that’s loyal to the left (ABC, CNN) and recently appeared before a group of black journalists. Kamala didn’t attend. Kamala is as invisible as Biden now. But Trump is a coward for asking for a debate on FOX?
Cowardice is covering up Joe Biden’s senility and forcing him out by threatening the 25h amendment only when the polls finally drove home the reality. Kamala became nominee without winning a single state in the primary. Even BLM was asking for a mini primary.
What right does the democrat party have to condemn Maduro, one of their tribe members? Would you have voted for Trump if he was running against Maduro and was leading him by 5 points in every poll? Of course you wouldn’t, which is why people don't take your Pharisee act here seriously.
A politician asking for favorable conditions for their debate? Well I never!
(Nobody tell Jeff about all of the ridiculous conditions that Biden put on his debate. Or that Trump agreed to all of them just for poor old Joe to shit the bed.)
No links? Why not here?
"Wild horses are romping all over California’s massive dam removal project"
[...]
"The massive dam removal project on the Klamath River, near the California-Oregon border, has faced all sorts of challenges. The newest one may be the most unexpected: wild horses.
In recent months, more than 100 free-roaming horses have descended on the dam sites, eating and crushing the new grasses and shrubs being planted in areas where the dams once held reservoirs. The plants are intended to help revegetate the formerly submerged lands and prevent soil from slipping into the newly flowing river.
While the horses possess a distinct rugged beauty and are cherished by some, managers of the dam removal say the equines could undermine the vast replanting effort that’s vital to the project. As the dismantling of four dams nears completion, the revegetation of 2,200 acres of reservoir footprints with billions of seeds and thousands of shrubs and trees, costing tens of millions of dollars, remains the last step before the Klamath is completely restored. The river’s rewilding is a longtime goal of tribes, environmentalists and fishing groups..."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wild-horses-are-romping-all-over-california-s-massive-dam-removal-project/ar-BB1r5i2i
1) CA is lacking water storage facilities, so let's tear down some dams!
2) I don't give a shit about your quasi-religious views.
3) Maybe you really can't go back.
Media will soon change its name to Kamala hero for the greatest politician in history.
I am sure that the tribes, environmentalists and fishing groups have given up all the resources now in shorter supply with the dams removed, right?
4) the clean energy supply system is overloaded already, so let’s tear down the clean hydro-power dams and clean nuclear power plants.
How long until the eco-cultists advocate "culling" the wild horse herds as an "invasive species"?
His rule threatens U.S. interests by stifling market opportunities
Wait... what? So this is suddenly a thing in Libertarian-land?
In the end, they'll argue against regime change through intervention. But the since Venezuela isn't Israel, they feel safe in floating the idea that "bad things happening there could be bad news for us" instead of "stop meddling in their affairs, period"
You've come to the wrong place, Jorge. At Reason illegal immigration is celebrated as an unmitigated good.
See jeff above get furious when you even dare mention reality regarding illegal immigration.
The country's vast reserves of oil...
You've come to the wrong place, Jorge. Reason says OIL BAD.
The U.S. is deeply implicated in this turmoil
Did the US put it's thumb on the scale of the opposition?
If not, then how are we implicated?
Wait, "fueling illegal immigration" [to the USA] is bad now?
I've been assured by multiple Reason writers that it improves the economy and lowers the crime rate.
What happened to Venezuela’s democracy — what happened to Germany’s democracy 90 years before that — can also happen here in the United States. We are not immune — nor are we any better prepared. Representative government might be the best thing around, but it is still very precious — and proved so in Ancient Greece. When dictators take over it’s impossible to get rid of them.
A *Constitutional* Republic. NOT just a Representative government.
That is the part that is suppose to saves us - yet is consistently ignored.
Hey man.... "If you don't support FREE international trade policy with socialist regimes then you're against free-trade" ... Repeats all other Reason articles to date.
Funny how Free-Trade only matters with socialist regimes.
Maybe Free-Trade was originally a DOMESTIC stance.
Maybe the very reason a Union of States was created was to prevent socialist corruption (border and international market corruptions) in the USA; NOT to F'En "freely" inherit it all.
Maduro is your typical communist turd who oppresses, terrorizes his own people, produces a failed economy in his country.
I'm waiting for him to fulfill the last communist ideal, mass murder, but I'm sure that will come eventually, and the only people who apologize or admire him are useful idiots from hell, like Sean Penn, Michael Moore, etc.
Hey, Buttplug, you fucker, weren’t you the one claiming Tim Scott was gay? Newsflash, asshole, he just got married to a woman.
https://x.com/votetimscott/status/1819899474698756334?s=46&t=qeA47-JjK6vq0pfnxg60dA
I bet he’ll come in and claim she’s a beard.
And then say something ridiculously racist and homophobic.
>fueling illegal immigration,
Wait, I was assure that immigration was a net positive. I was assured this. So this Maduro guy is doing us a favor by driving people out, right?
>This potential influx of refugees could strain U.S. immigration systems and social infrastructure, posing a major humanitarian and logistical challenge.
All lies. Chicago, NYC, and Martha’s Vineyard all stand ready to receive the economic bounty immigrants bring.
Sure, there will be some short term pain, but think, in 30 years some of the will have successful restaurants and it will have all paid for itself.
And those successful restaurants will all be state owned as the 'progressives' take complete control of every aspect of life, public and (what was) private.
They'll have to adjust to cooking with cricket powder and algae.
Compromise. We'll recognize his leadership if he takes all the illegal aliens we can round up and deport, Venezuelan or otherwise.
"Supporting the democratic aspirations of Venezuelans is crucial for U.S. interests. A free Venezuela will address key U.S. policy concerns such as the rise in illegal migration, untapped market opportunities, the growing influence of Iran and China in the region, and security risks for international commerce in the region."
NONE of these are legitimate U.S. interests. Therefore, NONE of these should change what should be the official U.S. government policy regarding Venezuela of non-interference, non-intervention and, especially, no targeted sanctions. "Illegal" migration, for example, is a U.S. government problem internally generated based upon false premises and lies. Whether the government of Venezuela is legitimate or not has no bearing on U.S. policy mistakes.