Congress Shouldn't Encourage College Presidents To Censor Even More Speech
Both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian activism has been suppressed on campuses.

On Tuesday, the presidents of Harvard University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), and the University of Pennsylvania appeared before the House of Representatives to answer questions about antisemitism on campus. They were very much of the when-did-you-stop-beating-your-wife variety.
Rep. Elise Stefanik (R–N.Y.) repeatedly demanded that Harvard's Claudine Gay, MIT's Sally Kornbluth, and UPenn's Elizabeth Magill give "yes or no" responses to complicated questions about whether calls for genocide against Jews would violate university policies. The presidents consistently explained that their answers were context-dependent; it mattered whether the speech was directed at specific individuals, whether it was severe and pervasive, and whether it was accompanied by prohibited conduct.
These answers outraged Stefanik and her legislative colleagues.
"This is the easiest question to answer yes," Stefanik thundered.
Rep. Jim Banks (R–Ind.) was similarly furious that UPenn had invited antisemitic speakers to a pro-Palestinian rights literature festival. Magill clarified that she had issued a statement condemning some of the speakers' remarks, but Banks repeatedly suggested that figures like Roger Waters and Marc Lamont Hill had no business speaking on campus at all. Magill noted that the university's free speech policies are guided by the U.S. Constitution and was promptly ignored.
The antisemitic tenor of pro-Palestinian activism on some campuses is indeed horrifying. National Students for Justice in Palestine did in fact celebrate the October 7 terrorist attacks. So did individual chapters of Black Lives Matter and the Democratic Socialists of America. These were disgusting displays. No one should make excuses for, let alone endorse, Hamas's brutal campaign of murder and rape.
But the First Amendment does not make exceptions for hateful speech. It does not prohibit terrorism apologia. It does not forbid implicitly genocidal statements. A university that wishes to model its policies after the U.S. Constitution—an admirable course of action—should allow students and faculty members to make odious statements. The correct response to this speech is for others to criticize it.
If the speech in question is individually targeted, it may lose such protection. Scribbling hateful messages on Jewish students' dormitory room doors, for example, would constitute targeted harassment under the universities' policies. Anti-Israel protests and demonstrations don't count.
It's fair to criticize university administrators for too often abandoning these lofty free speech principles in recent years. Campus authorities have routinely failed to defend free speech when said speech is deemed hateful by some offended party. Hundreds of U.S. campuses erected bias reporting systems, which allowed students to report each other for saying unkind things, even inadvertently. Over the course of the 2010s, universities erected safe spaces and enshrined trigger warnings (which do not work) for the explicit purpose of discouraging supposedly hateful speech.
If critics want to charge that university administrators are hypocrites for only sticking to principle when the scrutinized speech is anti-Jewish, they can do so—but of course, both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel activism has been suppressed on campuses.
In any case, pressuring university presidents to come down harder on legal speech is not a very good idea. Anyone who has paid close attention to the happenings on college campuses for the last two decades (or more) should be wary of empowering administrators to engage in censorship. Universities do not need any encouragement on that front, least of all from Congress. Hypocrites should be denounced when they fail to protect speech—however odious—not when they stick to the First Amendment.
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I think that the situation regarding the vile Hamas supporters in Florida getting their hats handed to them has been somewhere between grossly misunderstood and deliberately misrepresented.
1. The group claimed & published the statement 'we are Hamas'.
2. Hamas is a recognized terrorist organization.
3. Florida law prevents government bodies from providing material support to recognized terrorist organizations.
4. State universities are government bodies.
5. The state universities are prevented from providing material assistance to recognized terrorist organizations.
6. Recognized student groups are provided material support from the universities.
7. The group must be disbanded to comply with Florida law.
8. The letter sent indicated that the group could reform in a manner compliant with Florida law.
Jews have slaughtered 16000 Palestinians including 12000 women and children. ACTUALLY not merely rhetorically.
They have specifically targeted vulnerable noncombatants in refugee camps, hospitals, schools and homes.
They kill civilians women and children and have the hypocrisy to call them human shields.
Jews are implementing their premeditated plan to kill and forcibly displace the entire Palestinian population in Gaza.
This is proof that Jews are committing crimes against humanity, genocide and terrorism.
The term antisemitism will forever be rightly associated with this people’s atrocities.
The time is long past due to stop these terrible Jews.
not my fight. next
A record number of people (democrats) are marching around this nation to demand the extermination of the Jews.
This is a bad thing.
This already happened in Germany.
What can we do to stop them?
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“Jews have slaughtered 16000 Palestinians including 12000 women and children. ACTUALLY not merely rhetorically.”
Fuck off you lying cunt. That’s not even remotely true and I know that you know you’re lying.
Edit: Notice Misek says "Jews" and not Israelis.
Also: Chemjeff and Buttplug, here's your ideological pal.
Fuck you piece of shit lying waste of skin apologist for crimes against humanity, genocide and terrorism.
Are you an Israeli or a Jew?
“Gaza’s government media office says the number of Palestinians killed since October 7 now stands at 16,248.
The figure includes 7,112 children and 4,885 women. This does not take into account about 7,600 people buried under collapsed buildings.
Here are other key figures:
43,616 people wounded
At least 1.5 million people forcibly displaced from homes
286 medical personnel, including doctors and first responders, killed
81 journalists and media staff killed
32 civil defence members killed”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/12/5/israel-hamas-war-live-israeli-attacks-on-southern-gaza-reach-new-depths?update=2536076
The same government media that blamed Israel for blowing up a hospital and killing 500 people? You know, the one their side actually hit and only scorched the parking lot.
I'm guessing you're a fan of Hasan.
"“Gaza’s government media office says..."
Dude. Satire?
Because you've got a lot of people fooled.
If you're serious about that as being a legitimate source, you're more fucked up that we imagined.
An earlier report
“At least 15,207 Palestinians have been killed in total as a result of Israeli attacks in Gaza since October 7, according to a spokesperson for the Hamas-controlled health ministry in Gaza.
At least 40,652 others have been injured in Gaza during the conflict, and 70% of the victims are children and women, Dr. Ashraf Al-Qudra said in a news conference Saturday.”
https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-2-23/h_109b2f709478317bb8dd9aa5c755e873
Hey, Goebbels, Stormfront is over thataway ->
And yet, on October 6th, and for 18 years before that, they were not "engaged in genocide" or "colonizing Gaza". I wonder what changed?
What makes you believe that to be true?
Educate yourself and challenge your bigotry. Watch the three minute segment of the video I’ve presented below. After all, it is a prominent Jew speaking.
The mainstream media is complicit with the genocide and crimes against humanity committed by Jews and advocated by the west. We should be seeing videos of the total destruction in Gaza. The bombed refugee camps, hospitals, schools and homes. Interviewing the families of the 15000 slaughtered.
The Israeli government plan to kill and forcibly displace the entire entire Palestinian population in Gaza should be front page news.
Instead all we see is the language of propaganda. Dozens of CHILDREN held indefinitely by Jews are “prisoners” while Jews held by Palestinians are “hostages”.
Miko Peled is an Israeli, an author, a public speaker and the son of a famous Israeli general.
He is also opposed apartheid, genocide and crimes against humanity being committed by Jews in Palestine.
Between 40:40 and 43:45 in the video he describes a poignant example of previous Israeli terrorism. As terrible as It is, it pales in comparison to what Jews are doing now.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
Sorry dude, university presidents have no interest in defending anti-semitic speech from right wingers.
The truth is that Jews have slaughtered 16000 Palestinians including 12000 women and children.
Jews are committing crimes against humanity. Genocide and terrorism.
Fuck you piece of shit lying waste of skin.
When the truth/reality is antisemitic ALL rational people accept it.
Hey, a contender for the biggest liar around.
Nice try but you'll have to bow down to your master, the Daddy of all lies, that is behind the ideology, masquerading as a religion, that wants what you want, after denying that it happened.
Circular jerkoff, anyone?
Fuck you lying waste of skin terrorist Jews.
Over 17,000 Palestinians slaughtered by Jews committing crimes against humanity.
“ARE THE PUBLISHED CASUALTY NUMBERS COMPREHENSIVE?
No, experts told Reuters.
“Our monitoring suggests that the numbers provided by the Ministry of Health may be under-reporting as they do not include fatalities who did not reach hospitals or may be lost under the rubble,” the U.N. human rights office spokesperson said.
“It is a logical assumption that the numbers being reported are underestimated, are low,” said Nathaniel Raymond, Executive Director of the Humanitarian Research Lab at the Yale School of Public Health, who has worked on death counts in armed conflict and natural disasters for more than 20 years.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/
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Congress should encourage Congress to get the federal government out of the student loan business.
Chumby for the win with the libertarian solution!
…..as Biden forgives another 8 billion in student loans.
Careful how you phrase your wish... it would technically comply with this if they stopped requesting payback at all, making them not "loans", but rather simple grants.
The Congress critters' outrage is political theater for the voters. But it is only possible because of academia's hypocrisy and selective enforcement of safe spaces and free speech. You barely acknowledge that.
Stop being so mealy mouthed. These parasites deserve all the outrage that can be mustered.
My outrage is that my tax dollars are still paying for this shit.
When censorship is directed at the left it becomes a bad thing.
Call for genocide against muslims, gays, blacks, women, or illegals at Harvard, MIT, or Penn.
See what happens.
In 5 years it will be acceptable because the left is losing power and the right is gaining it. In 10 years it will be normalized. Then in 15 the right will screw the pooch again and the pendulum will swing left again.
TERF women?
The pendulum swings again. The left has seen its peak pendulum where it could cancel anyone for anything, where it had total control of speach on campus, where it decided what the Overton Window looked upon, where it could claim a man was a woman as long as he wanted to be one and all the other idiocy they've pushed. Schools, doctors, therapists and parents are being sued by kids who had their sex junk cut off and thus the avalanche begins.
Now of course the right will begin with some petty vengeance, doing much the same as the left but focusing on their usual villains. They will get away with it for a while until they eventually they will try to force Intelligent Design on Biology classrooms and the Lords Prayer along with the Loyalty Oath in the morning or some such similar idiocy. Then moderates will get sick of them and start voting Democrat again and the cycle continues.
Is it too much to ask conservatives to not go all crazy religious right on us, stick with actual small government policies, expand individual liberty, repeal idiotic laws and reduce the power of federal law enforcement?
Yeah, I figured that was too much to ask.
Define "crazy religious right," with examples if you can. I ask, because the religious right hardly has a monopoly on "crazy" - and yet, it's only their crazy that anyone ever has an issue with, and folks usually can't articulate what's so "crazy" about it.
^. This. And he cant. He absolutely cannot articulate it
Since you guys don't believe that the religious right pushed Intelligent Design in public school biology classes, pushed for the Lords Prayer to be said after the pledge of alliance and created the Satanic Panic in which many normal parents lost their kids because the kids were brainwashed by therapists to report their parents using them in Satanic rituals then why bother. Those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
You didn't define it just doubled down on your ambiguous charges. Who is the religious right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right#:~:text=The%20Christian%20right%2C%20or%20the,of%20the%20teachings%20of%20Christianity.
There, have fun.
Oh that well known font of information, Wikipedia, which never has been accused of a blatant leftwing tilt, especially when writing articles on anything to the right of center. You can't even define it, you rely on a biased source, like I said, you're an NPC.
Also, you didn't bring up race, but you cite a source that specifically defined the religious right as white (might surprise you but a lot of nonwhites are even more conservative in regards to religious matters).
What is "crazy" about Intelligent Design or the Lord's Prayer?
Don't bother, he'll just cite a biased article from Wikipedia that frames groups together groups as diverse as evangelicals, Roman Catholics and LDS as some nefarious force out to make America into a theocracy. I was being sarcastic when I posted all that shit, but it appears he actually believes it. We can't even agree on how many books there are in the Bible, or what happens to the host during communion and if you are saved by faith or work, but somehow we agree on how a theocracy should be formed and ran.
What do you think the Simulation Argument is, other than Intelligent Design?
There is plenty of evidence that life was created and programmed. Why exclude that evidence from formal educational environments?
For the simulation hypothesis, there is no "God". That makes it okay.
But, if the simulation hypothesis is true, then everything we know about physics, carbon dating, the age of the universe, etc just gets tossed out the window. What if that's what 6000 year old Earth means? The simulation began 6000 years ago, and in the simulation, it would be easy to define the universe as 13.7 billion years old, dinosaurs never existed just fossils of dinosaurs, etc. And who made the simulation? Would that being not be the "god" of the simulation? It's a fun thought experiment. That's not where my money is though. Multiverse all the way. (Which, I suppose, also means there is a universe where the above is true).
Ah. So you’re living in the 70s and 80s then.
Ok, boomer.
I've asked the same thing of Chemjeff and Buttplug and they've also both refused to define what they mean.
How about discussing the cross cultist war on Dungeons and Dragons? Articles in newspapers about "Satanism Feeds on Troubled Teens!" which was an actual article appearing in my home town local newspaper in 1985 in which it claimed Dungeons and Dragons books taught us how to summon demons and the like.
What about the Satanic Panic of the same Era where therapists brainwashed kids into thinking their parents had used them in Satanic rituals. Parents spent a lot of time in prison for that and their kids went into the foster care system.
Are you going to claim these things never happened and cross cultists had nothing to do with them even if they did happen?
Oh boy another edgy atheist. Mr Gobblygook is back with his simplistic take on everything. And of course he's an anti-thesis bigot, who condemns all Christians for the actions of a very tiny minority that the press loves to focus on (of course he misses the fact that it wasn't just the religious right pushing this bullshit, it was a fuck ton of leftists to, like Maury Pavich who pretty much created this out of whole cloth and Janet Reno and Tipper Gore and Oprah also had a hand in it and Phil Donahue, all of them committed leftists and hardly Cross Crusaders).
I teleported to Avernus just last week to fight a devil. Raphael has the best background music (Baldur's Gate 3, for the uninitiated).
What part of boaf sidez sophmoricness don't you understand?
Also, everyone knows that this is exactly what we discuss over coffee after church, how we're going to take over the country and implement the hand maiden tales. I mean, we put aside the whole plethora of differences and schisms in modern Christianity and focus only on how we'll implement the next theocracy. It's so important that Calvinists and Lutherans and Orthodox and Catholics put aside centuries of doctoral differences for this one purpose.
I mean we even get the LDS and Jehovah Witnesses involved. We're coming for you. The theocracy will reign supreme. We can't stop arguing over what to serve at the bake sale, but we sure as fuck can agree how we're going to implement the next theocracy.
Wow, how do you find time to plot how you're going to hold down the Black man?
That's what church potlucks are for
Odd that when someone mentions religious right your mind goes to racism. I never mentioned anything racial.
Not odd at all because idiots like you invariably go to race next after you demonstrate oh how edgy you are for hating religion. Fuck, be original. We already have several posters who post the same tired trope. At this point you're basically an NPC.
When someone mentions "religious right" they almost exclusively mean "white". That's why.
Lol. Well, the same kind of people who like to virtue signal their hostility to religion also like to virtue signal about race.
Plus, Vern was just making a joke about the paranoia of the anti theists.
Lighten up, boomer.
Somewhere out there, there has to be a porn flick titled "The Handmaid's Tail".
If there wasn't, you have no rule 34'd it into existence
Lutherans are really big fans of Calvinists and the whole notion of predetermination. And, historically, they've gotten along so well with Catholics. What's a few extra sacraments between friends? Mere indulgences.
I mean that whole nailing up of the 95 thesis was all just for show, so no one caught onto our plans.
And the whole persecution of Wycliffe and Hus was also a distraction, a head fake. Really, this was all worked out between Paul and Peter, they were planning how to turn America into a theocracy millennia before America was founded.
Is that from the Book of Mormon?
DaVinci Code.
Well, since you don't remember the history then I guess you plan to repeat it.
We are repeating it. Just in a different form.
Now it's called "transgender."
You for or against that?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic
Enjoy
He has a citation about something that was pushed by both the left and the right (remember the story the other day about Janet Reno and how she pushed this bullshit, she must be part of that religious right he won't define).
Where do you get the left being involved in the Satanic Panic?
Phil Donahue, leftist, Maury Pavich, leftist (these two basically created the satanic myth) Janet Reno also pushed it. You don't remember very well, I already mentioned Reno. Or is she the religious right now? The whole thing was basically created by Phil Donahue, Maury Pavich and Oprah Winfrey, all well known leftist. I think Maury's wife Connie even did a report on it on CBS news, if I remember right. She is also hardly the religious right.
You didn't answer the question.
And if you think you did, you've stereotyped an extreme majority by the conduct of an extreme minority.
What is it, specifically, you have against the religious right that you regard as "crazy" - and will you cop to that definition of crazy as it's equally applied to those other than the religious right?
Starting to think that Woodchipper and Mom are right, and that you're intentionally avoiding this question.
He isn't avoiding it, he is just to simplistic to offer anything more than trope.
Is it too much to ask conservatives to not go all crazy religious right on us, stick with actual small government policies, expand individual liberty, repeal idiotic laws and reduce the power of federal law enforcement?
Yes. It is too much. Because the other side crossed the line and two wrongs makes a right. They have to pay, and payback is a bitch. Who cares about people caught in the crossfire? There are casualties in war, and this is war. War to preserve our nation from those who want to destroy American values and...
Did I do that right?
Not crossed the line.
Dragged us across the line.
We're talking about the lowest common denominator here. It ain't common. Yet. Don't support those who would make it so. Because then it will be normal.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three do.
I really don't like it when cross cultists try to gaslight those of us who lived through the 80s and 90s. It get old. I remember when politically correct meant go along with the hawks and cheer for all the wars.
Who are the cross cultists? I lived through the 80s and 90s and didn't see anything approaching this in the churches I attended. So fuck off with your collectivists bullshit. Christianity is a wide spectrum, despite what bigots like you love to push. Fuck, get two Lutherans in a room together and you'll end up with three different opinions on doctrine.
Arguing is what we like the most after coffee and lefsa.
Heck, my very Southern Baptist family views Catholics as not really being Christian whatsoever.
...the current Pope does little to dissuade them.
The pendulum swings again.
The pendulum swings until it falls off its fulcrum and shatters on the ground.
until they eventually they will try to force Intelligent Design on Biology classrooms and the Lords Prayer along with the Loyalty Oath in the morning or some such similar idiocy
Oh, the horror! Schools teaching what the parents and local communities actually want!
Is it too much to ask conservatives to not go all crazy religious right on us,
Yes, that is "too much to ask", because implicit in that statement is the assumption that there is something as "us". There is no "us". There are 50 states and tens of thousands of communities, and they should be able to live life as they see fit. That includes teaching intelligent design in school.
tick with actual small government policies, expand individual liberty, repeal idiotic laws
Your "small government policy" seems to consist of the federal government telling every school in the country what to teach and what not to teach.
Mr Gobblygook is a pretty simplistic NPC who relies on well worn tropes like Boaf Sidez and edgy anti-theism. Like we haven't seen that shit a million times.
I'm betting he doesn't even know the difference between Calvin and Luther. Fuck, for that sake, I'm betting he thinks Luther was a black dude.
Teaching religious doctrine in public schools is wrong b/c church and state are separate.
When you make religious arguments, think of Islam as the faith being taught and you will come to a better position. All religions should keep out.
6 out of 8 Ivy league presidents are women, grill them on that.
They’ll probably just complain that they don’t make as much money as the two men. Even if they do.
Women are much better at intrigue and interpersonal relations than men, which is why they rise to the tops of these institutions and why so many are successful in politics despite otherwise lousy performance.
I would replace "interpersonal relations" with "peer manipulation" or "social manipulation".
Interpersonal relations makes it sound like if you take a group of men or a mixed group doing some work and put a woman in charge, the group will get more efficient than if you had put a man in charge. The data virtually never bears this out and, akin to the pay gap myth, if it were true IRL, women-owned businesses would beat their male peers rather than needing/getting special tax breaks from the government and requiring men's sports to subsidize them. To your latter point, what you end up getting is a group that performs the same or worse with more people saying they approve of their (female) boss.
Since most of these are private colleges. Shouldn't you be consistent and call for censorship from private colleges for 3 years before having an article against censorship?
No. They shouldnt be censored. It should be widely advertised that going to these institutions that promote genocide freely but will kick you out for understanding biology aren't worth a shit.
The government shouldn't "censor" them, but it should stop giving money to them, for research, for education, or for any other reasons.
Agreed.
Robby, the underlying problem is private college administrators seizing control and running idologically amok after severing alumni relations . Farewell, the disinterested spirit of New England- The Ivies are now run by carpetbagging academic wokesters educated at the Uglies and Left Coast Bros who care more about inclusivity and Title IX compliance than academic freedom or equity in alumni relations.
Well, we should stop public research grants and federal student aid and loans to private universities and let the market take care of this.
Fear of losing federal funding for failing to comply with arbitrary Federal directions is the Ivies prime administrative & HR excuse for compulsory programs of on-campus indoctrination for students and faculty alike.
No, I disagree. The faculty and administrators at the Ivies actually believe this crap and have done so for decades. The fact that it has infected government is a consequence of what they have been teaching, not the other way around.
In my experience the two are reinforcing rather than mutually exclusive, but there's no denying the impact of post-structural critical theory on political science as it is taught.
Sadly, I saw this crap first hand at top US universities in the 1980's, back when mainstream Democrats and Republicans still thought this was batshit crazy.
They're starting to lose substantial private donations from wealthy alumni, guys who attended back when education was the first mission of the university.
I'm of mixed mind about this. No, they shouldn't be censored. But, the justification that this is free speech is an absolute lie. These colleges are the absolute bottom of the barrel on free speech, as demonstrated by their FIRE ratings and rankings. So, it's not free speech. It's endorsed speech. They support the outrageous arguments. Or at least to object to them as strenuously as the suggestion that there may be innate difference between men and women. And once you've established that these universities endorse this speech, the question is what should be done about it. Now, my personal answer would be "nothing", across the board. But, "nothing" isn't our society's across-the-board answer regarding what to do about objectionable speech. A university that signed off on the KKK (let's assume a peaceful chapter) on campus would undoubtedly find itself in legal hot water.
"So, it’s not free speech. It’s endorsed speech."
Exactly. Reposted for emphasis.
I wouldn't grill them over allowing this speech, I'd grill them over what other types of speech they would allow. Would they allow a men's right organization on campus? A seminar called "rape is a lie?" Would they allow students to organize a march in support of the Armenian genocide? Or perhaps a student organization calling for a ban on Chinese immigrants?
That would be the more interesting discussion, to test the limits of their tolerance and see where it ends.
Again, though, these universities have records. We already know the limits of their “tolerance”. And a lot more anodyne claims, such as “men and women are different” or “people are responsible for their own actions”, are treated as beyond the pale. We don’t need to get into Armenian genocide or Chinese immigration bans to find opinions they won’t tolerate. Which leaves me to conclude that they don’t consider Jew-hatred beyond the pale.
A threat to declare holy war (aka "antifada") against students of a certain religion isn't free speech, it's an actionable threat and the students making those threats should be expelled, at a minimum.
she has the crazy eyes
Magill noted that the university's free speech policies are guided by the U.S. Constitution and was promptly ignored.
Gee, Robby, maybe you should interview Amy Wax on why Magill's free speech protestations were taken less than credibly.
The issue isn't censorship. It's calling out the blatant hypocrisy of Harvard, UPenn and MIT. Pull whatever public they get.
What Harvard? Two of its last four Presidents graduated from MIT, and three days before the last one was inaugurated, Harvard's faculty abandoned its 1650 legislative charter.
Because 1619 Project.
Shouldn't they have given the campus back to the Indians by now?
The Indian college started in 1640 folded in 1696, and the school in New Hampshire that took over the franchise morphed into Dartmouth after the French and Indian War
Anyone who has paid close attention to the happenings on college campuses for the last two decades (or more) should be wary of empowering administrators to engage in censorship.
Why? Are you suggesting universities might *start* censoring conservatives if pro-Hamas rhetoric is censored? That boat sailed a couple of decades ago. Conservatives have nothing invested in preventing further university censorship because they're already censored. Again, I'm not advocating the censorship. But, this argument is just silly.
Congress Shouldn't Encourage College Presidents To Censor Even More Speech. Both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian activism has been suppressed on campuses.
Universities exist to produce scholars and teachers. Political activism or calls for violence have no place in them and there is no reason why any university should tolerate them.
If people want to exercise their right to free speech, they should do it outside universities and after they have completed their studies.
If people want to exercise their right to free speech, they should do it outside universities and after they have completed their studies.
I would add or within the confines of the academic setting or circle. The stupidity of burning bras or protesting Israel in favor of Hamas via chanting mob is not teaching anyone anything. It's one thing to say it's an athletic performance to test the abilities of human physical bounds or a theatrical performance to expand people's minds without hurting anyone. But doing it in the streets while hurling bottles and waiving signs it's the same low-brow mob action that's been in vogue since the current tribe conquered the next tribe over.
The stupidity of burning bras or protesting Israel in favor of Hamas via chanting mob is not teaching anyone anything.
Stupidity isn't illegal. If they want to go out in the streets and chant and burn bras, they are legally permitted to do so.
Likewise, employers and universities should be free to kick anybody out who does any of that.
Well, chanting maybe, but burning bras releases way too much CO2 to be allowed.
Universities exist to secure government grants and private donations. And letting their students make death threats against people based on religious affiliation and ethnic identity is a good way to start losing rather substantial private donations.
If there were any conservative students at these universities, they should show up at any speeches by pro-Hamas speakers and shout them down, and see if the administration considers that free speech.
The last time Sorbonne students did that they called it the Third Crusade.
Every Jewish person I've met was a liberal Democrat. You'd think they would support the political party of Evangelicals who put Jews on a pedestal. Instead they support the political party that rebels against Christians. At least in my limited experience.
put Jews on a pedestal
It's more like they put Jews on their laps.
You've never met any Evangelicals who look up to Jews as God's Chosen People, and envy them for being the first to be Resurrected? What kind of oppressive Christian household did you grow up in?
You’ve never met any Evangelicals who look up to Jews as God’s Chosen People
Most Christians around the world consider US Evangelicals to be crazy, uneducated heretics.
Most Christians around the world simply don't concern themselves with Jews at all.
Most Christians around the world consider US Evangelicals to be crazy, uneducated heretics.
Did you do a poll? FFS, it’s sarcasmic, why would you assume anything he says has anything to do with the world as it actually is and not the way he wishes it were or he wishes other people would perceive it.
You’re talking about the guy who, for a period of months, would post “I overheard a two cops saying…” or "A cop buddy I know..." in response to Reason's policing articles. He hasn’t overheard any cops. He hasn’t met any Evangelicals who look up to Jews. He’s a tar baby who’s only purpose is to stick to people who are smarter and better than him in an effort to make himself appear similar to them.
Did you do a poll?
That's the position of the Catholic church and several mainstream protestant denominations.
My point is that the positions of US Evangelicals is not representative of the position of Christians worldwide; US Evangelicals, by the very nature of their belief system, know very little about actual Christianity.
I'd argue most international Christians know squat about Christianity.
The Pope seems quite befuddled over it.
The Catholic church created the Bible and defined Christianity and Christian dogma for most of history; for the first millennium, anybody who disagreed with it was persecuted and killed.
Whatever kind of "Christianity" you think you follow, it's almost entirely defined by the Catholic church.
The fact that the current pope is a blithering idiot doesn't change that fact. After all, he is hardly the first.
Every Jewish person I’ve met was a liberal Democrat
If I had a nickel for every Jewish person you've met, I wouldn't be able to afford a penny candy.
"correct response to this speech is for others to criticize it."
Indeed, criticize by stopping contributions to campuses that promote moral equivalency in the speech of their leaders.
I don't know.... the idea that universities are violating laws about placing employees in a hostile working environment seems pretty justified.
They also have a legal and moral burden to ensure that all students are treated fairly, and free from intimidation and threats. A burden which they were quite proud of bearing, until quite recently. Now it's, "what can we do?"
If only these lying, cowardly, hypocritical college presidents really meant it when they say they defend "free speech" of students. Somehow though, racist comments and threats from right wing students would never "depend on the context...."
What happened to "safe spaces" for minority students?
Now it's okay to say you're declaring war on people of a certain religion or ethnicity, as long as they "count as white"?
Boaf sides!
The Universities have already been empowered to restrict speech. The question is who they restrict it to:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/12/university-presidents-abhorrent-hypocrisy-on-anti-jewish-speech/
"Some free-speech advocates watched yesterday’s hearings and came away enthused. We were not among them. Far from having finally found religion on the question of open expression, America’s elite universities seem to have developed yet another double standard. When the targets of student opprobrium are favored, they crack down. When the targets are Jews or the perpetrators aren’t wearing red hats, they retreat into platitudes. This will not do. One either believes in radical tolerance or one does not; one cannot advance it and withdraw it when convenient, as one might change one’s clothes to suit the season. At best, such behavior represents an unstable caprice; at worst, it is the very definition of antisemitism. In a few months, this Congress would do well to stage a follow-up session and to explore some of the contradictions in approach. The results would be educational."
Uh, Soave - there hasn't been 'Pro-Palestine' protests. There have been 'help the Palestinians kill the Jews' protests.
Kind of a big difference.
They never cared about hate speech.
They care about power.
Hate speech was to silence political dissent.
Now they support the hate so speech is sacred again.
"complicated questions about whether calls for genocide against Jews would violate university policies"
Well, Robby, it turns out there is nothing complicated about calling for genocide.
And there is nothing complicated about opposing it.
And there is nothing complicated about knowing those who call for it are terrorists.
Recall, “it depends on the context”. Sadly Stefanik wasn’t quite mentally nimble enough to follow up with, “in which context would calling for genocide of Jews be acceptable?”
No, it doesn't depend on the context.
There are absolute truths in the world.
Deal with it.
depending on your exact definition of "genocide", a satirical "modest proposal" to conduct a voluntary buyout of all real-estate in Israel might TECHNICALLY qualify, but that's really not what the congresswoman was asking about.
The calls for murdering Jews everywhere can hardly be said to a simple objection to the Israeli government's conduct of the war. Nor can it be said to be a mere dispute over territory. It goes deeper than that. While taking these positions in a vacuum is protected free speech, they haven't been taken in a vacuum. They've been voiced in tandem with discrimination, violence, property damage, vandalism, false imprisonment, breaches of the peace, and general bullying and intimidation of Jewish people across the country. Paul Kessler was killed by a college professor at a pro-Hamas "protest" for holding an Israeli flag. This is the hate and pro-terrorist activity that is thriving at our college campuses.
The mere accusation of any of this conduct aimed at black or gay students would be deemed a hate crime and the administrations would immediately leap into action whether its a hoax or not. Here, these dumbass school presidents refuse to do anything about it, which is why it keeps happening and is getting worse and will continue to get worse. When actual consequences start happening, like expulsions and criminal charges, things will change. Until then, they're fraud and hypocrites.
You do not understand Woke DEI. A microaggression of using the wrong pronoun is not free speech and can get a student disciplined, but calling for another student to be murdered because he's Jewish is free speech.
Perhaps people will see what Woke really means.
https://bit.ly/3GtDbiV December 4, 2023, CityWatch, Why The Woke Support Genocide
you probably should have rethought posting this piece or at least running it by someone first.
Why should Reason? Reason is wealthy! They just made (pinky to lips) ... $700000. That's, what, like $60000 per Reason employee?
Speech is not the issue. The racist woke DEI program have inculcated race hatred into college student so that any one white is evil. DEI opposes MLK's judge each individual by their character and not ny skin color, race, religions etc. DEI's criteria to judge people is to look at what group DEI has classified them: Oppressors or Oppressed where under DEI all Whites, especially Jews even if they are not White, are evil. It's a matter of their group and individual character is not relevant. All minorities are Oppressed, unless they are Jews who are classified as majority white since Jews have never faced any discrimination of bad treatment because they were Jews (sar). Thus, Hamas is a minority as there are only 475 Million Arabs in the world and 15.2 Million Jews. In Woke math 15 is larger than 475.
While hearing students' clamoring for the extermination of Jews is unpleasant, Free Speech shows us what a horribly vile crop of students US colleges have raised. As the college Presidents said, Free Speech is only stops when they actually engage in genocide. Free Speech, however, does not mean others have to accept woke racism. Maybe people will wake up and realize the Wokeism has become the 21st Century Nazism.
"It does not forbid implicitly genocidal statements."
It doesn't forbid it because there is no such thing. Genocidal statements are genocidal statements.
There is no "I didn't really mean kill the Jews, I just said it out of frustration!" standard. It means what it means. It is incitement and a threat. Genocide advocacy doesn't take a left turn into reasonable discourse. It leads to genocide. Doesn't matter if it takes a day, a week or 20 years. Hitler played the long game.
I do have to wonder if we would have quite so much hand-wringing if the KKK sponsored protests on college campuses targeting no specific individual on campus, but strongly urging that all black people be put to death?
Maybe I don't have to wonder.
Free speech is not the problem. The schools' teaching students to hate Jews is a problem. Woke DEI teaches hatred of Whites in general and Jews in particular. The students are only repeating what they learned in class. Free Speech allowed us to hear what the universities have been teaching.
https://bit.ly/3Ndt060 December 7, 2023, CityWatch, Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. DEI Manufactures Campus Anti-Semitism, by Richard Lee Abrams
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