Abortion's Big Night
Plus: RFK Jr., Wichita's libertarian mayor, Hamas' death toll accuracy, the cult of Erewhon, and more...

Voters show up for abortion rights: Yesterday, voters across the country made clear that they oppose Republican-backed abortion restrictions. Andy Beshear, Kentucky's Democratic incumbent, won his reelection bid for governor after repeatedly hammering his opponent's opposition to abortion. In Ohio, both weed and abortion won when put to the people via ballot measures—the latter by 12 points. In Virginia, Democrats won control of both the House and the Senate. In Pennsylvania, Democrats won a state Supreme Court seat. (Both states saw a lot of abortion-related campaigning.)
"Abortion is the No. 1 issue in the 2024 campaign," Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker, a Democrat, who publicly supported the abortion efforts in Ohio and Virginia, said Tuesday. In Ohio, Issue 1—which amends the state constitution to protect abortion up until the point of fetal viability, or around weeks 22-24—won, which means that Republicans will be thwarted in their attempts to ban abortion at six weeks of pregnancy. (Former Roundup writer/Ohioan Elizabeth Nolan Brown covered some of the Issue 1 controversy here.)
Many libertarians will find these abortion wins encouraging. I do not.
Although some of the language gestures toward freedom, much of it misrepresents the objections of pro-lifers. "Ohioans know that no matter how you feel about abortion personally, government should not have the power to make these personal medical decisions for the people you love," said one Issue 1 organizer. But how you feel about abortion frequently dictates whether you believe government intervention to be warranted, since one of the few defensible functions of government is protecting innocent beings from being aggressed against. The language of bodily autonomy—which we saw plenty of in the lead-up to these elections—focuses only on the rights of the mother, but never on the rights of the baby. Surely people on both sides can admit that the issue is so fraught because these rights come into conflict, with no easy resolution.
Still, it's undeniable that this is a galvanizing political issue and that Republicans haven't known how to message their beliefs—and allay people's fears about the consequences that stem from abortion bans—post-Dobbs. Generally speaking, the country is profoundly divided on abortion, with 61 percent believing it ought to be legal in all or most cases, and 37 percent believing it ought to be illegal in all or most cases. People tend to be broadly supportive of allowing abortion in the first trimester, but broadly opposed to permitting it in the second and third trimesters.
But "in states where abortion is prohibited, the share of people who say access to abortion should be easier has increased since August 2019," reported Pew in April. "About a third of adults (34%) say it should be easier for someone in the area where they live to obtain an abortion, an 8-point increase since 2019." Almost 20 percent of those surveyed, per Pew, say their views on abortion have changed in the last year or so since the Dobbs decision was handed down by the Supreme Court.
Interestingly, in Ohio, "the victory for Yes on Issue 1 was not driven by remarkable Democratic turnout—but by a significant share of voters in Republican-leaning counties casting their ballots for abortion rights," per a Politico analysis of the results.
Beyond abortion: Ohio just became the 24th U.S. state to legalize recreational weed (more from Reason's Jacob Sullum). Colorado's TABOR—which requires excess property tax revenue to be returned to the people—changes were defeated (more from Reason's Eric Boehm). And in Virginia, Republican Gov. Glenn Youngkin—who had tried to get a really solid legislative majority for his party—did not succeed. More here.
RFK Jr.'s second wind: The, uh, antiestablishment candidate made waves earlier in the presidential campaign season, then faded for a while, but he's back again—this time, pissing his former pals off with his recent comments on free speech while also polling surprisingly well. A New York Times/Siena College poll found significant support for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. when up against Donald Trump and Joe Biden in battleground states and with younger voters:
The New York Times / Siena College Research Institute: Battleground States Poll
In 3-Way Race, Independent Robert Kennedy Jr. Garners 24% Across 6 Battleground States; Trump 35%, Biden 33%, Kennedy 24%; RFK Noses Ahead Among Voters Under 45https://t.co/RP2kHlceEY pic.twitter.com/DVTPWBvRrI
— SienaResearch (@SienaResearch) November 7, 2023
"When asked about the likeliest 2024 matchup, Mr. Biden versus Mr. Trump, only 2 percent of those polled said they would support another candidate," reports The New York Times. "But when Mr. Kennedy's name was included as an option, nearly a quarter said they would choose him."
"The findings suggest that Mr. Kennedy is less a fixed political figure in the minds of voters than he is a vessel to register unhappiness about the choice between Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump."
Though I am not very fond of RFK Jr. (as previously established, to many people's chagrin), I am intrigued by people's possibly growing comfort with rejecting the awful front-runners put forth by the two major parties. I'm not optimistic that such polling data will convert to Election Day results, though.
Scenes from New York:
The fact that it mentions Brooklyn is bizarre (unless the sentiment is just plain old antisemitism). Lefty gentrification discourse—the idea that any neighborhood could be "owned" by any particular ethnic group, or that one has a claim to a place simply by nature of having lived there the longest—has never made sense because it feels reminiscent of far-right nativism. It also ignores that little thing we call property rights, in which you can buy a home or a tract of land and then decide what you do with it and who you allow to live on it, random people's feelings aside.
Settlers in occupied territories are indeed a problem. But the invocation of Brooklyn here suggests the charitable reading of this argument is "people should not be allowed to move to places where a different ethnic group predominates," which is a far right take https://t.co/u3HVvewPtU
— Eric Levitz (@EricLevitz) November 7, 2023
QUICK HITS
- Local reporter and solid tax-hater Lily Wu, who seems libertarian-ish, was just elected mayor of Wichita, Kansas.
- No! You can't access LaGuardia by subway, minus 10 points for city planners.
Honestly think the new LaGuardia Airport has increased my estimate of American state capacity by 5%. (Had been 8% until I looked at the price tag.)
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) November 7, 2023
- More on whether the Hamas-controlled health ministry is reliable at reporting death tolls: "There is even close consistency for MoH and UN totals for the 2008, 2014 and 2021 Gaza Wars," reports Action on Armed Violence. "In short, the MoH figures for the total numbers of Gazan fatalities in previous Israel-Hamas confrontations have proven reliable."
- A third of the buildings in the northern part of Gaza, where Israeli troops now have a stronghold, have reportedly been either destroyed or significantly damaged.
- The better thing would be for her to get perma-booted by voters, but this will have to do for now:
HOUSE approves censure against Rashida Tlaib 234-188.
22 Democrats voted in favor of it.
4 Republicans opposed the measure.
— Mica Soellner (@MicaSoellnerDC) November 8, 2023
- Don't forget to stock up on booze—there's a GOP debate tonight, at 8 p.m. Eastern.
- It's the Erewhon cult content you've been waiting for.
- The only thing more hilarious than the fact that USA Today hired a full-time Taylor Swift reporter is that it's a dude, so now people are big mad.
- Yep:
propaganda for me but not for thee pic.twitter.com/C605tOVUC3
— Ben Dreyfuss (@bendreyfuss) November 7, 2023
- Pretty much:
This should be the easiest thing to at least perfunctorily condemn but nope, not easy for her. https://t.co/BLtP0pysw3
— Mary Katharine Ham (@mkhammer) November 7, 2023
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Local reporter and solid tax-hater Lily Wu, who seems libertarian-ish, was just elected mayor of Wichita, Kansas.
Burn the wichita!
Wait, I can come up with something better.
...
Nope, guess I can't.
A seven nation army couldn't hold her back
So…If she weighs the same as this porcupine…she’s made of wood from The Liberty Tree…
And therefore…
Ae WITCHITA!!!
🙂
😉
But your lineman is still on the line!
Voters show up for abortion rights...
Lower the voting age to clumps of cells.
Fetterman is effectively now a clump of cells.
Majority of abortion bills are 20ish weeks. Which in polling shows that is where two thirds of voters stand. But the media and dems continue to lie during elections in order to trick their apparent single issue voters on the left. The left says the economy is a primary concern, think the economy is bad, but still vote based on abortion lies. Truly a party of useful idiots.
"Majority of abortion bills are 20ish weeks" which is very much in line with what Roe said so why did it have to be repealed? People want Roe back in place.
Roe v Wade was a bad decision because of how it was decided. It created a federal law, where no law existed, and removed the choice to craft laws away from voters and the legislature. It and Casey pulled specific numbers and restrictions from no case law and no legal principle and just made it law.
If the majority of people agree on a 20ish week ban, that's good, but it shouldn't be authoritatively decided and taken out of the public debate. In some areas, the consensus may be a bit more permissive out to 24 weeks, and in others the consensus may push more restrictive to 15 weeks or even 10 weeks. I think eventually the states passing the most restrictive laws are going to end up with those laws changed as voters respond, but that's why this issue belongs with voters and not with the judiciary.
Roe was not a bad decision it was well worked out and used existing medical benchmarks as guidelines. Roe passed with more support (7-2) than the repeal had (6-3). That Roe was a bad decision is just bad talking points.
LOL, even Ginsberg said it was a specious legal decision.
With that said, I’m all for Democrats aborting as many of their pregnancies as possible, and encourage blue states to offer cash incentives to do so.
Mod isn’t capable of understanding the constitution.
^ Parody
Is it really? It's so hard to tell nowadays.
I might be convinced of this with the "Maybe Nikki Haley will be our savior" below
That was what tipped it for me.
No, the center-right is very much convinced that Haley is the person that needs to be in charge, which tells you what kind of jobbers these people are.
It was an absurd decision. Legally indefensible. It was right to have been overturned.
Popularity is for populists.
It was a bad decision legally, based on very little. I'm 100% pro-legal-abortion, but the supreme court's job is to apply the law as it exists, not to deliver the best or most popular policy outcomes.
Here was what was wrong with Roe, as explained in Dobbs.
Roe did much more than simply create a new constitutional protection out of the aether.
It undermined other long-standing doctrines.
Sounds like a bunch of stated BS with no explanation...
Ya know like Dobbs making-up the word 'potential' in the Constitution.
Wow, from Justice Thomas's dissent. The fact is that for 50 years justices appointed by both Democratic and Republican Presidents have upheld Roe. How many of the justices that voted to repeal Roe said it was settled law during their nomination process? The problem was Roe gave women rights to privacy in their medical care and a lot of old white men did not care for that.
take your racism elsewhere.
It didn't use any benchmarks and had no regulatory definition defining viable.
As if 'potential' is any better.
^Exactly...
Is there anything from the Pro-Life mob that isn't "just bad talking points"?
On the other hand, I find it rather telling, and highly amusing, that the only joy in life that feminists really have is knowing they have the power to kill their kids.
Or maybe to have ownership of themselves.
If they (feminists, women) truly took "ownership of themselves" (which includes uteruses) they could prevent pregnancy and not require the killing of an innocent.
Ownership standards that you want to use gov-guns to FORCE upon her?
Do you support a right to fetal ejection? If you don't you're not concerned about 'killing' you're concerned about forcing her to reproduce.
Is taking a morning after pill not included in that ownership?
As well as anything else she decides to do with her body.
^ Nailed it
I think eventually the states passing the most restrictive laws are going to end up with those laws changed as voters respond, but that’s why this issue belongs with voters and not with the judiciary.
One's body processes belongs to the voters not with themselves (Individual Liberty)?
This is complete BS from the Pro-Life mob.
Do tell how Dobbs ‘potential’ ruling is more Constitutionally sound than RvW 4th Amendment “The right of the people to be secure in their persons”??
RvW might not of been rock solid but Dobbs was a complete joke in comparison.
Some of the other BS from the Pro-Life propagandasts???
1. RvW was federal legislation
- No Roe specifically blocked federal legislation through the whole pregnancy process.
2. Dobbs put the decision to the States
- So did RvW. The only difference was Dobbs took Pre-Viable **choice from "the people"** and gave it to the State under the excuse that 'potential' life VOIDS the choice of the people.
Watch out for the Pro-Life BS. They lie, lie, lie and lie some more.
Dobbs sued over a 20 week bill dumdum. Dems sued.
Dems constantly sued even longer term bills under Roe dumdum.
The issue should never have been federalized dumdum.
Still getting it wrong. Dobbs was about a 15 week ban. Dobbs was a pathway to repeal Roe so states could outlaw abortion altogether and that was it was opposed. Because Democrats had it right people liked Roe.
Because Democrats had it right people liked Roe.
Looks like some states felt differently about it.
"...people liked Roe"
So that's the standard now for inventing Constitutional rights?
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons"
"The issue should never have been federalized dumdum."
Why not? It's an individual right that is connected to established rights like privacy, bodily autonomy, and medical decision-making. Those are rights that no state should be able to contravene.
"Majority of abortion bills are 20ish weeks"
As long as any of them are less than viability, the party that enacts them should keep losing elections. Which is largely what has happened.
Rational conservatives for the win!
Nothing rational about killing people based on age and temporary location.
That's where you have it wrong. Fetus isn't 'people'. Until 20 weeks it doesn't even have coherent brain waves. Any restrictions under 20 weeks are bullshit. Even after 20 weeks there have to be exceptions for the mother's health because an already-born woman with a functioning brain (and other already-born children she is responsible for in many cases) should not risk sepsis and death or be permanently disabled for a parasitic organism with human DNA.
Here's where you're lying.
The second a new human organism begins is upon the formation of a zygote. Every biology and medical textbook on the planet agrees with that, you ignorant fuck.
As for a developing brain, neurulation begins in the forth week and the brain is operable with firing neurons by the eighth.
Fucking ghoul.
And you can save it.... You just can't enslave the Woman to do it.
Here's your zygote in prime condition (fetal ejection).
"The second a new human organism begins is upon the formation of a zygote."
Separate is necessary before you can claim it's an individual. Until it's capable of existing without the mother, it isn't a separate organism.
"As for a developing brain, neurulation begins in the forth week and the brain is operable with firing neurons by the eighth."
The brain isn't capable of regulating the body until roughly 26 weeks. It's one of the last things, along with the development of the lungs, that are required to achieve viability.
"Nothing rational about killing people"
As of now, it isn't killing. And until birth, it legally isn't a person. So you're just spewing your personal opinion as if it's reality.
Oh wow, an honest to God believer in magical birth canals, that a trip through one is what confers personhood on a human.
Oh wow, an honest to God believer in FORCED reproduction I take it. Do you support fetal ejection? If that answer is NO the only thing you’re supporting is FORCED reproduction as moved location =/= killing anything.
Or maybe Nelson is just an honest to God believer in the US Constitution (the very definition of the USA).
“All persons **born** or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens” and a believer in “The right of the people to be secure in their persons” and “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States”
You Pro-Lifers have no Constitutional grounds (in fact you’re in violation of it) and no sensible physical grounds. The ONLY thing you have is BS propaganda by running around yelling ‘babies’ and ‘killing’ of which neither you have anything but your own *imagination* to supporting.
Sorry. I don’t think your wild imagination justifies your desire to FORCE people to do things with their own body what they don’t want to.
“Oh wow, an honest to God believer in magical birth canals”
I don’t believe in magical anything, including magical sky wizards. What I do believe is that legally, it isn’t a person and it isn’t killing.
However I also believe that, before viability, a fetus also isn’t a person, nor is an abortion killing (or murder, or any other emotionally overwrought word). Morally, it is not.
You can believe whatever you want, but you don’t know better than the 2/3 (or 90%, if you’re a “life begins at conception” believer) of Americans who have come to a different conclusion.
So stop your arrogant insistence that we are all incapable of moral reasoning. We’re better at it than you.
A 1 month old can't survive on their own. Are they viable?
Fetterman likely can’t survive on his own either.
Then why was he able to kick Oz's a$$? Senator Fetterman is clearly surviving just fine on his own AND with the many votes of his constituents.
Yes; A 1 month old can survive on it's own and in area's it cannot it survives at the whim of other people's charity.
"A 1 month old can’t survive on their own. Are they viable?"
Yes. You really don't know what viable means, do you?
+1000000000..... Extreme bigotry has no place in the Republican party.
It's kind of slap in the face since Republicans wrote Roe v Wade and Democrats (Catholics) created the Pro-Life movement.
The only thing more hilarious than the fact that USA Today hired a full-time Taylor Swift reporter is that it's a dude, so now people are big mad.
But it’s cool when chicks report on football games.
Not only cool, it is evidently required.
Not only is it a man, it's a...*retch* a WHITE man. I literally can't even right now.
Most Taylor Swift fans are white anyway.
Well, I can't match that, but the Erewhon story has one funny note in the title:
Erewhon’s Secrets In the 1960s, two macrobiotic enthusiasts started a health-food sect beloved by hippies. Now it’s the most culty grocer in L.A.
Aren't cattle and pigs macrobiotic? They are pretty big critters after all.
🙂
😉
Do they switch to a woman of color when Swift attends a Chiefs game?
Running on abortion is a loser.
That is how brainwashed the public is on the issue.
But Republicans are professional losers, so they'll run on it and lose everything.
"But if we give up our principles, what does winning matter?"
Because your principles are exactly worthless if you don't have power.
You get power, then you wield it.
That is all that matters.
So what if power is wielded against you? Is it still all right?
I guess the incapacity for self-awareness must be a prerequisite to being a Nazi like Nardz.
Republicans have already given up their principles. They call those who didn't, "RINOs".
Losing is something "alpha victims" like Trump excel at. I wish him continued success.
Lol. Don’t hold your breath, spammie. You’ll be calling him “Mr. President Elect” by this time next year.
Maine citizens voted down the socialist takeover of the private electric utilities.
Voters in Maine are smart.
Sarc didn’t vote.
To be fair to sarc, he said he opposed the takeover.
I voted No but the schadenfreude part of me was interested to see the mess had it passed. I would have put up a 3 kW array and cut the utilical cord.
If I only needed 3 kW, I would go off grid. My backup house jenny is 24kW.
There may be a few consecutive overcast days where I’d need to top off the batteries. I’m ok with that. I don’t use that many electrons (current electric bill is $53.33 and that is about average).
I’d size the wire and controls for 5 or 6 kW but initial install would be 3 kW in panels.
So, no well pump I'm guessing?
I have a well pump. Dynamic (pumping) water level is about 12 FT below ground level. Pressure switch set at 30/50. The pump does not need to do that much work.
I admire you guys!
Although apartment living has it's comforts, I have long secretly pined to have a homestead so well-equipped that it could enable you to tell the larger society to go screw for at least a little while! Certainly some place self-sufficient on fruits, vegetables, fish, and poultry and with utilities that would last through the longest blackouts.
In other words, I want to be ya'll when I grow up!
Sadly, I don't know if taxes and inflation will ever again let people accumulate the capital to do what you do.
Sadly, I don’t know if taxes and inflation will ever again let people accumulate the capital to do what you do.
That’s not what’s holding you back.
Early last year, a property near mine was listed for sale. A little over 90 acres, mostly trees (select cut maybe ten years ago), pre-manufactured home (not a trailer) from mid 1990s, 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath. Was in good condition from the photos. Older single car detached garage that was just so-so. Well, leachfield, line power. Driveway on to paved, plowed state road. It listed for $199k.
Knew someone looking at the time that didn’t make a lot of money. He instead was looking at some $600k house in a town on maybe a fifth of an acre. Anyhow, he’s still living in a mobile home park as a renter, hitting fast food places twice a day, and buying the latest whatever gadget that his fav TikTok content creator was showing off.
If dude’s eating fast food twice a day his financial issues won’t be his primary problem for too long.
I eat fast food maybe twice a month.
No Big Mac for R Mac.
He’s not slim but not a tubby.
He had notes on a snowmobile and an ATV. Indulgent lifestyle is what holds him back. Getting that place (and paying it off) would have yielded generational benefits for his family. Instead, the five of them live in a mobile home park spending every penny of each paycheck when it posts.
Well, apartment rent went up from $575 to $625 to $1000 where I'm at almost overnight 3 years ago (no doubt to absorb all the losses the apartment firm had to eat from being forbidden to evict.)
Then I had 2 hospital stays and a broken toe, plus 2 attempts to steal my catalytic converter all in 2 years time.
While all of this is not insurmountable and I plan to get part-time work to knock it out, taxes and inflation and lax criminal justice do not help at all.
Hahahhahahaha, 12 feet. Yeesh. Wells in New Mexico are usually... rather deeper. 😉
New Mexico also gets more than 3.1 peak sun hours per day in the winter months. Panels there are making more pixies than in Maine’s northwoods.
This is true, and it's also more powerful sunlight at that.
Yeah, I live on a mountain. My static line in 280 feet and my pump is a horse and a half.
Yeah, your typical space heater and microwave are 1500 watts a piece.
So burn wood and cook and heat water with propane.
Propane has to be delivered if consumed in any quantity.
My primary heat is wood. I put up seven cords every year. It is a self-sufficient means of heating, but it is a lot of work; including maintaining all of the equipment to make the job a little easier.
Yeah, I know how heating with wood is. My point is just that you can get by fine with 3000 W electric to run a house if you are willing to make a little effort on how you heat and cook.
My point is just that you can get by fine with 3000 W electric to run a house if you are willing to make a little effort on how you heat and cook.
In a simple house, this may work. Throw in a walk-in cooler, multiple freezers, engine block heaters, battery tenders, livestock heaters, well pump, etc.
I won't even get into luxuries.
Of course. I don't think that's what Chumby is trying to do, though. You're going to want a decent sized generator if your main source is solar too.
Utilical cord. I see what you did there!
🙂
😉
Don't wish for schadenfreude when your fellow voters are retarded, because you go down with the ship too.
If an adult wants to put their hand on a hot stove, I might warn them once.
Being off-grid would insulate me from whatever a socialist electric utility does. I’d see a bump in prices at stores since they’d be affected. There would be a push to increase property taxes to fund the bigger electric bills at the local schools. The initial cost to switch would be noticeable for sure. It isn’t economically advantageous at the current rates.
What if an adult wants to put YOUR hand on the hot stove? That’s called Democracy. AKA the “Yes With Your Hand” movement.
In the case had Question 3 passed, I’d have an invisible hand. I’d be off grid and not subject to the higher prices and lesser service except as previously noted.
Switched to all wood heat a few years ago. It took some years to fully transition (to wood) where heating savings were rolled into more autonomy. If nothing breaks this year, the 7 month heating season will have cost about $100 total. The time to process and move everything is like a free gym membership.
At least that's one good thing last night.
https://twitter.com/ScottMGreer/status/1722260748838355445?t=Ig0HhhPJkDb2OLUV-tVPdA&s=19
China buying up pot farms throughout rural America is a perfect illustration of national decline.
[Link]
Those should definitely be American owned pot farms!
They’re takin’ away r jernts!
DURKA DURR!
Will we have to have pot-filled Gay sex orgy piles to keep people of the future from coming into being that would let the People's Liberation Army take over the U.S.?
Asking for many friends!
"Oh my God. THEY TOOK MY JOB!"
People are gonna start getting covid from weed.
They'll probably do gain-of-function research on the weed using the human genome as a base, then let it escape into the wild through a lab leak. Think of a more mellow version of Night Of The Living Dead.
Night of the Living Dank?
Don’t bogart those germs, dude.
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1722192767282233855?t=p5Qkv4_Cf0plwkYRvpYYwQ&s=19
- The 2020 election really was stolen
- It’s not about oppression it’s about hating white people
- Diversity is a codeword for antiwhite
- Mass legal immigration destroys nations
- Demographic change changes countries
- Guns prevent crime
- Wars make politicians rich
Up until #5 and #7, I thought you were listing things that aren't true.
But the invocation of Brooklyn here suggests the charitable reading of this argument is "people should not be allowed to move to places where a different ethnic group predominates," which is a far right take...
Apparently it isn't.
I mean it is par for the course of the left who still advocate segregation.
I don't even know if that's accurately what supposedly "white nationalists," believe these days, anyway. A lot of what I see described as "White Nationalist" organizations are very diverse, with Hispanics, Asians, and Black members. They seem far more focused on pushing certain cultural and ideological norms.
That said, I'm far from an expert on right wing extremism-certainly not like that very-definitely-an-expert sociologist who testified in the Trump case in Colorado.
Buttplug's working definition is "People who oppose the Democratic Party".
Is there something wrong with white nationalism?
If so, what?
Yes, white nationalism is a problem. Race and ethnicity are superficialities, accidents of birth. The principle of judging people based on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin is an ideal.
There's nothing wrong with asking for a nation to have a shared culture, and a shared set of principle, core values. If you want to say that people who believe in, say, censorhip are anti-American, that's valid. Freedom of expression and free discourse of public ideas is an American principle. But not all the people who oppose that share a skin color or ancestry.
I think ethno-states are ultimately harmful and anti-freedom. They focus on the irrelevant aspects of humanity, not the choices and expression of ideas. They see on tribal lines rather than ideological ones and are self-limiting as a result.
I disagree on ethnostates, they are extremely instructive, particularly when those same ethnicities demand that we judge them based on their grouping.
I guess they make for good examples-I wouldn't choose to live in one.
"Race and ethnicity are superficialities, accidents of birth"
Wut?
Wut?
RACE AND ETHNICITY ARE SUPERFICIALITIES, ACCIDENTS OF BIRTH!
Let's see of you get called an antisemite for this condemnation of Israel
Israel doesn't qualify for my definition of ethnostate-they have a large Arab minority. Arabic is a specially recognized second language that is used by state institutions. Though Judaism is a predominating religion and the politics of the religion have a huge influence on politics, it doesn't have an official religion. They recognize and protect freedom of religion, and recognizes Christian and Muslim marriages and uses those court to practice family law.
You can argue it's theocratic since there's no clear separation of church and state in Israel, but there's also a lot of power in secular institutions. But being theocratic is not the same thing as being an ethnostate.
In short, I don't consider Israel an ethnocracy because it's too diverse, practices universal suffrage, and has a guarantee of rights to all citizens living within its borders. But I'm not an expert on all things Israel, so perhaps there are things I'm not aware of and failing to consider.
Israeli, has multiple different ethno Jews - from Russian to Ethiopian. So from my outside perspective*, I'd figure the ethno-state argument is further weakened.
*maybe they aren't that different culturally due to Jewish tradition. I'm not worldly enough to know one way or another.
LOL
No integrity whatsoever.
Open to having my mind changed if anyone is willing to pose an actual argument.
Israel is the definition of an ethnostate. To my knowledge, it's the only explicitly ethnic state that exists. Jews worldwide have more rights in Israel than non-Jews who have lived there for generations.
Look at that beautiful circular logic. Thanks Nazi Nardz.
I know quite a bit about Israel, and I honestly don't know which "rights" you're referring to. Care to specify?
I'd say white nationalism involves giving preferences to whites on racial grounds. This country already tried that - it resulted in great injustice. But like a Marxist, maybe you'll argue that you'll get the ideology right next time.
If that be wokeness, make the most of it.
The marxist position is bitching about white nationalism while you celebrate Jewish nationalism and affirmative action.
If you're not a white nationalist, you're for other bad things!
It's all or nothing!
Hell of a strawman there.
You specifically criticized white nationalism without mentioning all the other ethnocentric regulations and double standards we're subject to. And despite me not saying that you don't object to other ethnocentric policies, you became defensive. Thus I suspect you do have much greater hate for white nationalism than Jewish nationalism, black nationalism, "indigenous" nationalism, or anything else in the critical theory framework.
Hell of an assumption there.
I was answering a question you posed:
"Is there something wrong with white nationalism?
"If so, what?"
Then when I replied to criticize white nationalism, you assumed I was for those other things you mentioned. So I wasn't straw-manning you - you actually do adhere to either/or thinking where you're either a white nationalist or a nationalist the other way.
It is indeed true that the Left celebrates Affirmative Action. But it most certainly does not celebrate Jewish nationalism. Leftists, the world over, are viciously anti-Israel.
Probably because for the most part those groups aren't "white nationalist" based on any normal person definition of the words.
I don't... what the fuck does "far right" even actually mean? It truly seems to be just a catchphrase for "thing that I think all right thinking people should be opposed to" and not actually any sort of coherent philosophy, yes, even more so than "far left" is not a coherent philosophy. The only solidly "right wing" position I can think of is "French monarchist". Everything else is just this giant catch basin for "not left" or even "not my flavor of left".
Far-right = favored race/class/ethnic group. Example - Nazis favored Aryans.
The far left is bad too - Communism removes classes (in theory).
I don't know why you Peanuts have such a difficult time with this concept.
Far-right = favored race/class/ethnic group.
So by your definition, the Black Panthers are far right.
As is MeCHA and LULAC. Apparently, "Fill in the non-white ethnic group" Student Associations on college campuses are also "far right."
Yes, that's how fucking stupid his argument is.
See comment below, dumbass.
Black Panther Party was left all the way.
Also, it is not "my" argument. It is generally accepted - which is why you idiots are always bewildered when the press refers to Neo-Nazis as "far right".
Heavily propagandized recently by the Democratic Party does not mean "generally accepted".
LOL, no one is "bewildered" about it, it's been the establishment narrative since Hitler violated Molotov-Ribbentrop that fascism was "right-wing" for attacking the glorious communist paradise of the Soviet Union.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
You realize that everyone sees you’re completely full of shit, right pedo?
So by your definition, the Black Panthers are far right.
Nation of Islam is far right, no doubt.
The Black Panthers from the 60s?
Upon its inception, the party's core practice was its open carry patrols ("copwatching") designed to challenge the excessive force and misconduct of the Oakland Police Department. From 1969 onward, the party created social programs, including the Free Breakfast for Children Programs, education programs, and community health clinics.[14][15][16][17] The Black Panther Party advocated for class struggle, claiming to represent the proletarian vanguard.[18]
nope - far left. "class struggle"? Free breakfast for all children? education?
Left all the way, dumbass.
Yet, your definition of "far right" is, "Far-right = favored race/class/ethnic group", therefore, by your definition, the Black Panthers, a party which espoused Marxist ideology and had a very favored race (black) should be "far right".
I'm only using your definitions here, Shrike.
But you're an idiot that knows nothing about the Black Panther Party.
Here is their 10-point platform:
We want freedom. We want power to determine the destiny of our Black Community.
We want full employment for our people.
We want an end to the robbery by the Capitalists of our Black Community.
We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings.
We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in present-day society.
We want all Black men to be exempt from military service.
We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of Black people.
We want freedom for all Black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails.
We want all Black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their Black Communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States.
We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace.
It is left/communist. It has been rightfully rejected.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit, a TDS-addled asshole and a pederast besides.
It's also far right by the definition you just mentioned. Maybe that's not a good definition, since it also covers groups that most people would call leftist.
Dude, I'm just using your definition. You made the definition, now you have to abide by it. By your definition (not mine nor anyone else's here), they're far-right (as well as Marxist).
How retarded are you, Shrike?
Liar. You are not using “my” or the established definition.
Black Panthers wanted equality – not the oppression of others. You probably think that Jews wanted special treatment by Nazis just to live.
This is why Jews hate the right (Republicans).
You didn't have anything about oppression in the definition you floated, only having a favored ethnic group, which Black Panthers absolutely did have.
Oh yes, the "liar" comes out when you've been shown to be an idiot. Again, I used your definition, dip.
""Far-right = favored race/class/ethnic group. Example – Nazis favored Aryans.""
"We want all Black men to be exempt from military service."
Favors a race.
"We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of Black people."
Favors a race
"We want freedom for all Black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails."
Favors a race.
I'm going to go with "fully" retarded is what he is.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
The problem is that the label "far right" is being applied to a lot of people who aren't any of those things. The far right by that definition are a tiny and irrelevant part of American politics.
If white people move into an area, its "gentrification" and "colonization."
If white people leave an area, it's "white flight."
Ergo, white people aren't supposed to live anywhere.
White people are bad.
See A Thinking Mind above
Never thought I'd hear a Lefty say: "There goes the neighborhood!"
It's never been "The Right" bitching about gentrification.
No! You can't access LaGuardia by subway...
Scenes from New York has bled over into Quick Links.
Once a buzz-word catches on - - - - - - - - -
https://babylonbee.com/news/planned-parenthood-says-proper-term-for-unborn-baby-is-womb-colonizer
*snerk!*
From uterus to the V, that clump of cells will never be free!
I think "From the womb to the V, that clump of cells will not be free!" scans a bit better. Matches the cadence of the original, anyway.
"In short, the MoH figures for the total numbers of Gazan fatalities in previous Israel-Hamas confrontations have proven reliable."
I suppose when you help facilitate them...
Only to those who believe anything put out by the UN - - - - - - - - -
Weren't they the ones who said Israel killed 500 people at the hospital? You know, the one that Hamas actually hit?
I'd heard it was Palestine Islamic Jihad, not Hamas.
(But they do all look alike...)
(But they do all look alike…)
And think alike, and act alike. The only way to know the difference is for them to tell you "I'm not Hamas, I'm PIJ". Or more likely, "yeah, I'm Hamas, but I'm also PIJ" which is only slightly more anti-Jewish.
The Un also says kids need extra psychological brainwashing to over come the cognitive dissonance from learning about the un's goals.
(sel for sdg, a paper put out by the UN)
From the AP report:
A copy of the report shared with the AP named 6,747 Palestinians and said an additional 281 bodies have not yet been identified. The list did not provide a breakdown by location.
So they vouch for the accuracy of the MoH, even though the number they've seen is 7,000 and not 10,000. And they're relying on the 7,000 being entirely non-fictional as well.
Exactly. You want a list of names? Hell, I can get you a list of names by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish.
For your information, the United Nations has roundly rejected prior restraint.
"They" meaning the AP?
The number was ~7,000 on October 27.
The ~10,000 figure wasn't claimed until this week.
You know what? That's fair. Good correction.
Does this mean more or fewer voters for Hamas in the next election?
Hamas hasn't believed in elections since 2006. In 2006 they won with a plurality (40-something percent). Most people now alive in Gaza weren't yet able to vote in 2006.
We can equate as Hamas isn't much different and shares the same goal.
"The Nazis haven't believed in elections since 1933. In 1933 they managed a plurality (40-something percent). Most people alive in Germany in 1945 weren’t yet able to vote in 1933."
…people should not be allowed to move to places where a different ethnic group predominates…,
I remember having riots in cities about this very thing, but now blacks can buy houses in the suburbs. Are we wanting to go back now?
Hey, just remember that both "white flight" and "gentrification" are manifestations of white supremacy.
Hey - dont they say
"once you go black you never go back".....?
This should be the easiest thing to at least perfunctorily condemn but nope, not easy for her.
Her big binder isn't big enough to include that page.
...there's a GOP debate tonight, at 8 p.m. Eastern.
Which reminds me, the one that promises to do away with standard time has my vote.
A third of the buildings in the northern part of Gaza, where Israeli troops now have a stronghold, have reportedly been either destroyed or significantly damaged.
Only a third? Slackers.
Well, from reports it would seem like 2/3 of the buildings are hospitals, most of which will run out of fuel for their generators in half a day.
So maybe it's just Israel showing restraint.
I feel like that's a winning campaign issue that no one is running with. An thing that unifies all sides of every issue.
I will turn back the clock to the time before daylight savings
This has to be a bit/propaganda...
Right?
Yeesh
https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1721923738613039450?t=OVtiKyVZ5kH-mYYhX2iruw&s=19
What do they teach children in this kindergarten?
[Video]
If this was a Count Dankula tweet, I'd think it was brilliant. I don't know what to make of it, though.
WTF?
If genuine, this looks like Palestinian implementation of "Social Emotional Learning"
I need to know where this is. Maybe it's a school somewhere else in the Middle East, and the children are putting on some kind of theater production? So basically, propagandizing the events of the war in Gaza to 5 year olds?
The video probably comes courtesy of MEMRI.
Yeah, where this is is necessary context. Not whether it’s fucked up, but by how much.
Better than drag queen story hour.
Is this from some school in England?
Yeah, but it portrays a power dynamic, so it must be alright to you, right, Nazi Nardz?
I remember thinking it at the time: complete abortion bans and fetal heartbeat abortion bans were terrible strategic choices for Republican lawmakers. And all the GOP candidates who are pushing for federal abortion laws are just committing complete sabotage on their own party. The majority of Americans are pretty moderate on the abortion issue and think abortions should be illegal past a certain stage of development, so if GOP-held states were pushing 12 or 15-week bans, they'd find a comfortable place to settle.
If Democrats hold onto the White House next year, it's going to be entirely on the issue of abortion. This Democratic administration has been an utter disaster in every other way, but the abortion issue continues to galvanize voters against Republicans. It's the one weapon that hasn't been dulled by their own waffling and poor handling of issues.
Ohio has a 21 week ban and just passed the amendment that will be used to sue for abortion to birth.
It doesn't matter what was specifically happening in Ohio: people are aware of the national conversation on abortion and their votes represent a pushback against it. Against what they see as a nation-wide drive to end abortions.
Ohio isn't socially conservative in the way Texas and Georgia are, so they were never going to pass the kind of bills those states had. But the fact that you've got morons like Lindsey Graham advocating for federal abortion laws will rally the pro-choice crowd in every state.
Dobbs was a good legal decision, but conservatives overplayed their hand in the aftermath of it. It's been a strategic error and has convinced a lot of voters that some cabal of elitist Republicans are trying to ban all abortions.
Lindsey Graham's real job is to make sure the Republicans remain the weaker party.
Good pay for easy work.
The notion that he might accidentally end up as Senate Majority Leader and he'd be held accountable for anything terrifies him.
This isn’t true. Even in states and areas regulating at the state majority of people have settled on, dems and pro abortion people continue to fight and sue despite being in the minority of public opinion. And voters who agree with the 20 week polling still vote for dem candidates running on those messages of less regulation.
Even in states and areas regulating at the state majority of people have settled on, dems and pro abortion people continue to fight and sue despite being in the minority of public opinion.
I mean, duh. The issue is not going to stop being an issue of public debate. Politicians on the right, pro-life people, will continue pushing for complete abortions bans even in states where the majority of the electorate is settled on a 12-week ban. Consensus doesn't happen where everyone stops debating an issue and agrees on it, advocates continue to advocate for their own positions.
And yes, some voters continue to vote for politicians they disagree with on the abortion issue for a variety of reasons-perhaps they disagree less with that politician than their opponent. Or perhaps they care more about other issues than abortion. Even if a specific voter claims he can't support candidate X because of their stance on an issue, if they end up voting for them, it becomes an "expressed preference." Their behavior demonstrates what their priorities are.
And yes, some voters continue to vote for politicians they disagree with on the abortion issue for a variety of reasons-perhaps they disagree less with that politician than their opponent.
And this is where I disagree. In polling even among dems they trust the GOP on more policies based on their priorities from economy to school choice. Yet these elections shows the dems still vote based largely on abortion as numbers track based on if a bill is in contention even when they agree with the other side of the contention.
Polling shows democrat voters don't vote based on who they trust for the majority of policies and instead are voting based on fear around things like abortion until birth claims.
Does a civilization thats most important issue is killing the unborn deserve to survive?
No
... certainly not a culture.
Is fetal ejection killing?
So support fetal ejection.
"Ohio has a 21 week ban and just passed the amendment that will be used to sue for abortion to birth."
No, they passed an amendment to protect abortion from zealots. It's called Constitutional protection for a reason. There are always people like you trying to coerce individuals to live by your beliefs instead of their own.
Do you really think that your fellow authoritarians would have left the 21 week ban alone? No one else does.
The Pro-Life movement was founded by the Catholic Church which was massively Democrats and Republicans wrote Roe v Wade.
The left couldn't have planned this 'eat yourselves' line of attack better had they had a glass ball.
And it shows too by having the exact same arguing points the left has been using since there very beginning. "the science", SCOTUS is federal law, "democracy" should decide ........... 100% a leftard cause.
https://twitter.com/LPNH/status/1722038968055685426?t=dm_mRi_8U85x7bahH530_w&s=19
They're the same picture.
[Pics]
I don’t get the inference.
Pandering
So Jewish people praying at a holy sight is the same as dems taking a knee?
Charlie Kirk isn't Jewish
The Temple Mount is a Christian site too.
Also muslim.
Is the kippah?
OJ Simpson, not a Jew.
That didn't fit.
Neither did the glove.
But can we acquit?
But you know who is? Hall of Famer Rod Carew... He converted.
Paul Newman's half Jewish, Goldie Hawn's half too. Put them together, what a fine looking Jew!
Me, I don't stand for a flag or take a knee at a cross or nod and note-scribble before a wall.
I do like Auguste Rodin's magnum opus and sit down and think.
Try it sometime, Nazi Nardz!
Still another Denny Hastert conservative sighting:
Republican Candidate Charged With Child Porn Offenses Hours Before Election
Nov 07, 2023 at 7:46 AM EST
A Texas Republican city council candidate is facing felony child pornography charges after being arrested just hours before the elections.
https://www.newsweek.com/texas-republican-candidate-brad-benson-charged-child-porn-offences-hours-before-election-1841474
Better him than you, eh pedo?
It's always pretty bold when Plugly calls other people pedos.
turd is a liar. And he hates competition.
always projection with these folks
Wasn't the dem hack that wrote up a bunch of the pieces dunking on pizzagate found out to be one of the worst and most flagrant degenerate pedophiles?
Yes
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Friend of yours?
https://twitter.com/FenixAmmunition/status/1722253522291605520?t=lFot0ELb1JODFucJvY7ulA&s=19
Lol - no, they don't.
Free speech only exists when you have the ability to back up what you say with violence.
Otherwise, anyone can simply stop you from speaking with violence.
Third grade level logic on display here, folks.
[Link]
Free speech can’t protect the years worth of food in my basement either.
In civilized places, free speech is not "backed up by violence", but by the police, who are paid to protect government-recognized rights.
The police...who are armed with guns and typically use violence.
What do police use to “protect rights”?
Protect it with what, exactly?
protect government-recognized rights
They're natural rights, not given by any government. The reason we have a Bill of Rights to to protect us from government trampling upon those God-given rights. The police are not there to protect rights but to uphold a law, even if that law is wrong. (They're also there to preserve disorder; thanks RJD). The court system is supposed to be there to protect rights.
Tell me you're a leftist without telling me you're a leftist...
Catholic veneration of martyrs and their messages live on to this day; says otherwise.
It just sucks to be martyred.
HOUSE approves censure against Rashida Tlaib 234-188.
I like the House devoting time to useless, masturbatory causes like this.
It distracts them from doing actual harm. And it's not like Tlaib is blameless.
Not useless- clear signal that you can say whatever you want and lie about the American people, but don't you dare be mean to Israel.
Our government let's us know their priorities.
She was censured for explicitly using genocidal language, from the river to the sea, not for being mean to Israel.
Again. Note the other posters here agreeing with your arguments. Such as Mizek this morning.
Notice Jesse simping for the good intentions of government simply because it aligns with Israeli supremacy in the US.
https://twitter.com/DissidentSoaps/status/1722318686055280830?t=Nn8KWGGXGS5vCPyxRnmPtg&s=19
There are thousands of missing Americans that you might actually conceivably find in North America, but instead our leaders cover their walls with images of missing foreigners thousands of miles away.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1590362232915132417?t=erB3ViY2PnpS0gEXRyNehg&s=19
More than 95% of AIPAC-backed candidates won their election last night!
Being pro-Israel is good policy and good politics!
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1587550674862088193?t=Px32J1myuy4PROhciSRhVA&s=19
We oppose Summer Lee because of her dangerous views of the US-Israel alliance.
AIPAC and our 2 million grassroots members proudly support progressive candidates - including 148 Democrats this cycle - who don’t check their values at the door when it comes to standing with Israel.
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1587864077967056898?t=kFLVXBaBmTNQ0BaA7d1GOg&s=19
We proudly stand with the overwhelming majority of the Democratic party that backs a strong ????????????????alliance.
AIPAC members have contributed more than $10 million through AIPAC to 148 pro-Israel Democrats.
We don’t spend a dime backing anti-Israel candidates like Summer Lee or you.
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1562438587521826817?t=Iu1Bz7iS3_RBRz-sHIocKQ&s=19
97% of AIPAC-backed candidates have won their election!
We have helped defeat 12 candidates who work to undermine the U.S.-Israel relationship.
Being pro-Israel is both good policy and good politics!
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1592276186238836736?t=58e652lIY-lL8sNYIRdAaA&s=19
AIPAC proudly supported 365 pro-Israel members of Congress and candidates this election cycle.
We are proud to stand with pro-Israel Democrats and Republicans to strengthen bipartisan support for the U.S.-Israel relationship.
Being pro-Israel is good policy and good politics!
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1590347626930921472?t=cEwq7TgFO33HmZxZrzHMcw&s=19
In less than a year, the @aipacpac emerged as the largest pro-Israel PAC in the country – with more than 6,000 members contributing over $17 million through AIPAC for 365 Democratic and Republican candidates – affirming that being pro-Israel is both good policy and good politics.
https://twitter.com/a_westgate/status/1721001639014752335?t=HWQIlqt5uPy8t5qs056PSQ&s=19
I hate it when Russia interferes with our elections
[Pic]
She earned it. Her and the Squad are as noxious as Jim Jordan and the Freedom Caucus.
At least the Ds have controlled their lunatic fringe. I can't imagine how much deeper the chaos would be if both parties gave their wingnuts power like the GOP has.
At least the Ds have controlled their lunatic fringe.
He says as they go marching in the street for Judicide.
Mainstream Democrats were marching in the streets for Judeocide? Sure they were.
Most Americans, D, R, and other, support Israel and condemn Hamas. That's because terrorism horrifies people and Hamas are terrorists.
Wait, you aren't doing that thing where you equate pointing out bad Israeli policies vis-a-vis the Palestinians is falsely equated with wanting them dead, are you?
Nah, you would never be that dishonest. Right?
What does this mean to you?
https://twitter.com/liam345/status/1719642116748378432/photo/1
That a random designer in England isn't a mainstream Democrat? She isn't even an American.
In your mind is there a secret connection between this random English woman and mainstream Democrats? Perhaps the Illuminati?
"English woman"
Ha!
Which party wants to let millions of such people into the county? Which one wants to keep them out?
Here's a hint:
Trump, campaigning in Iowa, vows to ban Gaza refugees from US if he wins a second term
So ITL says mainstream Ds are marching in the street and when I ask for an example, he sends me a link to an English woman. As if someone from a different country is an American D of any sort.
Your comeback, in support (maybe?) of ITL's unhinged accusation is to come back with the even more ludicrous claim that Ds "[want] to let millions" of Gazans into America. That would be a trick since there are only 2 million Gazans, total.
In the race for biggest raging lunatic, you are beating ITL by a nose.
"The findings suggest that Mr. Kennedy is less a fixed political figure in the minds of voters than he is a vessel to register unhappiness about the choice between Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump."
Finally, a useful Kennedy.
JFK Jr was useful to alot of woman in the 90s, unless they were true masters of their domain.
The only thing more hilarious than the fact that USA Today hired a full-time Taylor Swift reporter is that it's a dude, so now people are big mad.
Imagine how happy they'll be when she breaks up with him and writes a song about it.
https://www.emerald.tv/p/the-voting-machines-just-failed-in
The fraud is blatent now. Kentucky flipped votes too
Like I said, in 2024 the narrative will be "We had to fraud it to save Democracy".
Test runs to see who would catch what.
now just make sure those who caught it are not eligible to be observers or post election auditors
Very suspect when the Democrat wins for governor, and Republicans take every other statewide race. The first thing that should happen is the new Attorney General needs to open an investigation into this.
He is a white guy.
Remember, skin color is the most important thing.
Maybe for you, racist asshole.
You were banned for posting kiddie porn links.
The TDS-addled turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Because if you're rigging an election, you're only able to rig one office at a time? IIRC Dem governors in otherwise GOP states is hardly a new or surprising occurrence.
What's more likely to be happening is that GOP are getting sufficiently convinced that Democrats are going to rig 2024 that they will rig it pre-emptively "because that's what the Democrats would do". On recent evidence, some right-wingers here would positively support GOP vote-rigging on such grounds.
That's not even in question.
Has Trump predicted the rigging of the 2024 election, yet?
Ah, there's this from last week:
"In a statement on Monday, two advisers to Mr. Trump’s campaign — Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita — called on the Republican National Committee to “immediately cancel the upcoming debate in Miami and end all future debates in order to refocus its manpower and money on preventing Democrats’ efforts to steal the 2024 election.”"
Most of the examples that were shown to have issues last night involved one single position, not the full ballot.
Rigging the entire ballot would be too obvious for even you to dismiss as a non issue.
Disagree. There’s no amount of evidence that would convince him democrats rigged an election.
Which is particularly amazing considering he’s already convinced republicans rigged the 2024 election.
(FWIW one down-ticket election also went D.)
I am comfortable letting issues of vote rigging be tried in court - generally more reliable than partisan websites and paranoid hysterics with zero-context videos (remember the "suitcase under the table" non-story that had some of you virtually birthing live squid in your paroxysms?)
Show me the court decisions on vote rigging.
“On recent evidence, some right-wingers here would positively support GOP vote-rigging on such grounds.”
What evidence?
Your (plural) posts, showing a reluctance to disavow the hypothetical case.
“Very suspect when the Democrat wins …”
Why? The governor is broadly popular in the state and the GOP candidate wasn’t. Most people aren’t blind partisans, they vote for the candidate that they like regardless of party.
The only way you get to “This is suspicious” is if you started out thinking the only two possible outcomes were a GOP victory or fraud.
If you're so convinced the fix is in, why bother to vote?
9:10
In case it needs explanation: Force them to expose themselves
A gas leak caused a single precinct to shut down, an incumbent that was leading in the poll won and that’s blatant fraud? I’d describe it more as some things that happened.
Over under infrastructure problems in 2024 election?
A quick google search tells me there are somewhere around 120000 polling places in the US. If I assume a 1:1000 chance of an "infrastructure problem" at any given polling place, that would be 120.
maybe significantly higher in swing state polling places?
It would be nice to see that analysis/investigation done, but I'll bet we'll only get politically motivated cherry picked reports.
As R_Mac won't ask, though he would in other cases, evidence?
“If I assume a 1:1000 chance of an “infrastructure problem””
Why would you assume that? Is it normal for libraries, schools, etc. to even have a water line break or gas leak once in less than three years? And that’s before factoring in it happening on a specific day.
A crude guess. I've had to evacuate the building I've worked in about 3 times in ~10 years. Assuming ~ 49 weeks a year, 5 days a week is about 245 days per year, 2450 days a decade 3/2450 is just over 1 to 1000. I don't think that's a ridiculous estimate.
Is it normal for libraries, schools, etc. to even have a water line break or gas leak once in less than three years?
Yes, I think so. If you're there every day for 3 years it's likely you'll see a flood, a gas leak a fire alarm or some type of failure.
If it is a public school, the person would witness failure daily.
LOL Very good!
A third of the buildings in the northern part of Gaza, where Israeli troops now have a stronghold, have reportedly been either destroyed or significantly damaged.
Paul Krugman sees an economic boom in Gaza's future.
I see a lot more booms in Gaza's future.
Tasteless, but funny.
The results in Kentucky are some of the fishiest looking crap I've ever seen in my life.
The republicans won every other statewide race by a massive landslide, especially for Secretary of State and Attorney General, but lose the race for governor? That doesn't make any sense at all, unless the republican candidate was just really that massively unpopular personally, which I find hard to believe.
The most likely explanation is the usual democratic party mule shenanigans, especially in those two precincts where they cleared out the buildings on highly suspicious claims of "gas leaks".
Kentucky voters confused the white guy with the Republican.
Seriously, Trump put the MAGA curse on the Republican loser.
Thank's Hank. That made tons of sense. Anything on Comstock?
Obviously you didn't see the candidates.
Skin color is the most important thing (to most voters).
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
"Skin color is the most important thing (to most voters)."
It certainly is to you. You can take Southern Democrats out of the Klan, but you can't take the Klan out of Southern Democrats.
"Democrats are the real racists!"
Nobody cares.
Real racism? I fucking care.
Fake racism not so much.
Good for you
turd, the TDS-addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Shut up, Sevo.
Do you still have that fucking metal plate in your head? I recall your head injury from several years ago.
Is it rusty? Do you clean it?
Turd lies and projects. When Turd is pissed off, Turd projects his failings and pederasty onto others. When Turd is caught in a lie, Turd projects. When Turd is shown to be a stupid idiot, Turd projects.
Your earnest imitation of Scato's "nya-nya-nya" efforts is truly impressive.
Not quite the same as "effective", of course.
OK, Turd.
He did defend the posting of links to kiddie porn yesterday.
turd, the TDS-addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Wrong macro key, there bud.
Totally the right one, actually. I should repost Sevo more often.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
"especially in those two precincts where they cleared out the buildings on highly suspicious claims of “gas leaks”.
As we learned in 2020 and 2022, elections in areas with close races are known to significantly weaken infrastructure.
Well, I'll throw in a counter argument. Incumbents almost always have an advantage against challengers (which is why we need term limits in Congress).
Beshear was the only Democratic incumbent. Most other state-wide races had no incumbent all, and one had an incumbent Republican. Name recognition carries a lot of value. Now, is it enough to swing 11-12% by itself? I don't know.
And perhaps people actually liked Beshear.
Yeah they all loved his covid policies they constantly protested against.
In an overwhelmingly red state, Bashear's approval rating was 60%. So yes, he was very popular. Especially since the state is roughly 2:1 Republicans.
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/kentucky-gov-beshear-60-approval-rating-new-poll-finds-rcna65709
Yeah, but who are we going to believe, recent opinion polls and election results, or Confederacy fuckwits who jes' know that the election was STOLLEN (sic).
Beshear is famous due to who his daddy is. So he gets old timers voting in memory of his dad.
You just can't admit that he was popular because he did a good job and represented his constituents well, can you? It's all partisan warfare, all the time with you.
To me the bigger question isn't whether their total numbers are accurate or not. Since it is relatively easy to verify that, I think it's probably safe to assume they might not be as likely to lie about the totals. It's who is being killed that's the question. Hamas likes to claim that the majority of deaths are innocent civilians (skipping right over the fact that they use civilians as human shields) while the Israelis like to claim most of the deaths are Hamas fighters. Which side is more trust worthy? Don't know for sure. It probably just comes down to who you view as more sympathetic. IOW, feelz over facts. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Using civilians as shields is irrelevant re aerial bombing of an urban area and that’s how the casualties occurred until a few days ago.
It’s easy to estimate a ‘reasonable’ number for the number of Hamas fighters v civilians using the demographics of the dead and demographics of Gaza.
Of the 10500 dead, 4300 are children, 2800 are women, and 300 are medical staff or UN workers. That would mean 3100 are adult men. That’s a surprisingly low number of excess adult men considering that men are usually the ones combing through rubble, recovering wounded, and otherwise exposed outside, etc. Based on the estimate of what % of the Gaza population is Hamas fighters , I’d guess 300 – 600 of the dead are Hamas fighters (though almost certainly not-active/armed at the time they are killed). So 95% civilian dead and 5% combatant dead.
As a comparison to WW2 urban bombing, the German Blitz of UK had a run rate of 5000 /month killed and 10,000/ month injured during its 8 months. This one is running 10,000/month killed and 25,000/month injured.
"Settlers in occupied territories are indeed a problem. But the invocation of Brooklyn here suggests the charitable reading of this argument is “people should not be allowed to move to places where a different ethnic group predominates,” which is a far right take"
And yet it's always the "progressives" making it.
Between the "settlers are indeed problematic", the "suggests the charitable reading", and the "far right take" it's a phenomenal example of self-contradicting double-speak.
He can't say the word xenophobia or even violence, he can't fully excuse the persecution of settlers, and he can't indict ethno-national purity because he wants all of the above, in some places but not in others, and to eat his morally righteous cake too.
and to eat his morally righteous cake too
That, of course, is the real bottom line: he wants it so that no matter what position he takes on any given issue, his is the morally righteous one. Always and forever.
In an ideal world anyone should be able to move anywhere. The settlers were problematic politically thought. A lot of them were far-right religious zealots. They were moving to mainly Arab places because they wanted to kick out the Arabs, not just because they liked the view. They wanted to kick the hornet's nest.
The government will be able to remotely kill all cars built starting 2026.
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1722236144296091892
Guess I'll never own one of those.
At least not until the software patch comes out.
I have serious questions about this technology to detect if someone is drunk behind the wheel.
1. How can it tell the difference between a driver and the passengers?
2. How can it tell the difference between alcohol on the breath versus cologne or perfume?
3. What about alcohol-based cleansers or even the spillage from a broken bottle after grocery shopping?
They'll probably start mandating that every car have a breathalyzer installed, which will of course increase the cost of purchase price.
Ultimately, the goal is to end car ownership and shove everyone into those "15 minute cities", with exceptions for the party commissars just like in the Soviet Union.
Don't worry, that doesn't sound unhinged at all.
LOL, yeah, it's not like major globalist figures or government officials haven't been open about this sort of thing.
Impressive. Apparently the two-man race between ITL and Ed for biggest raging lunatic has a late, dark-horse entry who has taken the lead.
Funny how a political party that screeches for "common sense gun control" won't apply that same dedication to alcohol, despite the fact that it causes nearly 3 times as many deaths, INCLUDING gun-related suicides and domestic violence.
It has never been about stopping the street thug and the gangbanger.
On the plus side, 1/3 of the way to the deadline for IL's assault weapons registry and compliance is at an estimated 0.1%.
Will the State get to 100% registration? Will the numbers need fortification, but not enough fortification to substantially change the outcome? Stay tuned to find out!
How is the gang violence problem in Illinois?
Works out to a mass shooting every 6.4 days in Chicago (that never seems to make the national news for some reason...).
Good. It's good.
ability for self-maintenance of the Red Barchetta always key.
This is another lose for Trump and his followers. I hope that in tonight's debate the candidates will say this out loud. The majority of the American people don't like Trump or his policies. People don't want Trump, man judged a sexual abuser, judged to run a crooked business, a narcissist, and an incompetent. I hope Niki Halley get the backbone to take the fight to Trump and to advance conservative ideas.
Wow, you really are an Act Blue bot.
Then you are saying Act Blue has it right? Because I did see you offer any support for a loser like Trump.
Yes, a terrible loser. Was actually voted into the White House once.
What did you accomplish?
My parents weren't rich and could give me millions. What they did give me was a sense of values, an interest in the world around me and good manners. What have I accomplished, I have led a good life.
Cite?
…I have led a good life.
So why all the envy?
So what conservative "ideas" are you specifically referring to here?
I hope Niki Halley get the backbone to take the fight to Trump and to advance conservative ideas.
To poser "moderates," "advancing conservative ideas" always means "talk a lot about 'ideas,' but don't actually deliver on anything other than tax cuts and foreign intervention."
Moderates for the MIC!
Yeah, it's really fucking galling how these people always invoke "ideas" like they're some kind of holy talisman. Force them to talk about they actually mean by that, and you get nothing but glittering generalities and the same old, tired neocon policy playbook.
Force them to talk about they actually mean by that, and you get nothing but glittering generalities and the same old, tired neocon policy playbook.
Probably because they know the instant they start talking about more than generalities and get into actual policy proposals the same MSM and DNC (but I repeat myself) that have been hailing as a "good" Republican will turn around and paint them as Hitler reincarnated mixed with Attila the Hun and a little Godzilla thrown in for good measure.
Hrm. Maybe I should run for office...
The primary problem for the GOPe is they listen to asshole democrats like you telling them how to be a conservative.
Who was it that won Ohio again?
After the way they bitchslapped conservatives on the abortion amendment, I wonder if that will happen again in 2024?
BTW, looks like Disney continues taking Ls, Nelsy-poo.
I haven't been paying attention. I know DeSantis is getting his ass handed to him (I believe he is "Dick Cheney in 3 inch heels #2 from the debate), so we should expect some baseless cultural conservative pablum from him. So what's this latest ploy for attention about?
"Ohioans know that no matter how you feel about abortion personally, government should not have the power to make these personal medical decisions for the people you love," said one Issue 1 organizer
I would have an easier time believing abortion advocates abhorred government interference in "personal medical decisions" if these same people were not all in on Medicare, Medicaid and single payer healthcare, and weren't rabid supporters of vaccine mandates.
They want to be able to kill an unborn child when it presents an inconvenience in their life, with no consequences.
And, from there, it would have an easier time believing journalists actually cared about human rights right down to the very sanctity of human life if they even pushed back in the slightest rather than cheerleading. But they can't or don't because even asking "Aren't you worried that you actually are murdering a person who can't possibly have committed a crime?" demotes you from the illustrious position of
womanbirthing person that they've bestowed upon you to being just an unperson.In the subreddit r/ConservativeTerrorism, someone posted about refusing vaccines:
Here was what I pointed out.
I was downvoted seven times. Care to guess what the reply was?
I'm shocked you didn't get the ban stick for that.
You're upset that your inconsistency was inversely matched by their inconsistency?
Okey dokey...
No, he was simply pointing out their Marcusian double standard.
My guess: I hadn't thought about that, thank you. I'll get back to you after I've had time ruminate on the subject.
My guess for reals: Go to hell you, MAGA racist cisgendered white male privileged patriarchal scumbag.
Note the amendment didn't say and the dems sued when the SoS tried to modify the language that it covered partial birth abortion or even late term abortion. Because people don't actually agree with that. So the amendment is to try and drive that legislation through the courts and not the legislature.
Here.
"if these same people were not all in on Medicare, Medicaid and single payer healthcare"
You're under the impression that Medicare, Medicaid, and single payer bans certain procedures?
"They want to be able to kill an unborn child when it presents an inconvenience in their life, with no consequences."
No, most of us want the individual, not the state, to make that decision for themselves. Subject to reasonable restrictions, which don't include things like "heartbeat" bills that kick in before the fetus has a heart.
Some of you may be more interested in this than others
https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1722254138191601747?t=hqNok65pSdy3EuLvw9CxsA&s=19
The first trailer for the new ‘MEAN GIRLS’ movie has been released.
In theaters on January 12.
[Video]
I'm in.
Sarc will be disappointed we're not the stars.
Speak for yourself.
on Wednesdays we wear pink.
Look at all the mandatory diversity and body positivity.
I love Tina Fey though, so maybe it won't be a total loss.
...
https://twitter.com/SenFettermanPA/status/1721996063714807954?t=MTtFFtkcM_FaHkjum-5aUQ&s=19
In my front office I have displayed the posters of the innocent Israelis kidnapped by Hamas.
They will stay up until every single person is safely returned home.
[Video]
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1721276668965175687?t=TzF4hM4Emd4rfEj3j4cC6Q&s=19
Lobbyists for Israel are running hit pieces against me this week on TV.
“Jewish Insider” asked me to comment on the ads, but won’t show me the ads they have in their possession unless I promise to keep the hit pieces confidential.
Folks, you can’t make this stuff up!
https://twitter.com/AIPAC/status/1590362232915132417?t=mHpxEKwlIVtRrybjacLATQ&s=19
More than 95% of AIPAC-backed candidates won their election last night!
Being pro-Israel is good policy and good politics!
Yeah, it was shocking to see Fetterman buck the party trend there.
Funny what actually gets one censured vs what doesn't...
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1722095081778200692?t=jGH2iRaSr9Qi0-imIIK5yw&s=19
BREAKING: The House votes 234-188 to censure Democratic Rep. Rashida Tlaib for “promoting false narratives” about the Hamas terrorist attack on Israel and for her use of the phrase "from the river to the sea," which is considered by some as a call for ending Israel's existence.
I would have preferred she be censured for "being a whinging cunt", but ill take this
Or murdered?
The likelihood of their release or rescue is very low.
I have trouble with the idea that any entity can simultaneously purport to be a human being and by proxy assert a right to be absolutely supported by another, especially when the "another" is not a vague clump of taxpayers but a specific woman.
After fetal viability, the support is not necessarily absolute. Fine. Let someone who believes the baby's life should be preserved volunteer to pay the costs of a birth and commit to taking on the obligations of parenthood.
I have trouble with the idea that any entity can simultaneously purport to be a human being and by proxy assert a right to be absolutely supported by another, especially when the “another” is not a vague clump of taxpayers but a specific woman.
So do you think it's okay to throw infants in the garbage?
An infant can be taken care of by almost any semi-adult human or often even just older children. They do not require a connection directly to a specific individual.
You may still disagree with the logic, but at least argue against the actual claim.
They do not require a connection directly to a specific individual.
An older, larger clump of cells.
Right!
Bigotry 101.
You must be this tall to exit the womb alive.
Okay, I reacted too strongly to the first part of the statement while skimming over the second part.
But give me this-the first part of that is very obnoxiously worded.
"any entity can simultaneously purpose to be a human being and by proxy assert a right to be absolutely supported by another..."
That is every single infant ever. It's like saying he dislikes the definition of human being that includes "infants." He asserted that with the caveat of "especially" regarding a specific individual, not "exclusively." So it's a poor argument on his part as well, which is why I had a very strong and immediate response that perhaps lacked nuance.
Infants have an absolute right to be taken care of by other individuals because neglect is a death sentence. If you don't want to take care of your infant, you still have some amount of compelled action to give the baby to another caretaker, whether you wish to do it or not. And yes, a specific person can have a duty to care for a child-we call that person a "Legal Guardian." That binds them to certain duties of care, which is absolute in the case of infants. They can transfer legal guardianship in a number of ways, but it requires more affirmative, compelled actions. If they just drop the baby by the side of the road, they've violated their compulsory duty of care to transfer that baby to a different caretaker.
Infants have an absolute right to be taken care of by other individuals
Do they? Sounds like an assertion of a positive right (i.e. entitlement) to me. In a case where the parents and everyone else who has any personal connection to the baby are dead or missing, can others be compelled to take care of it?
In practice, someone can pretty much always be found to voluntarily take care of an abandoned infant, and that's a good and moral thing. But I don't think I buy "absolute right".
Do they? Sounds like an assertion of a positive right (i.e. entitlement) to me
Yep. They exist. What is the right to legal counsel but a positive right, ie an entitlement? That's why we have Public Defenders. They don't get to abandon their clients. If they're assigned a client, and that client wants to keep them as their lawyer, they are not allowed to pass that client onto someone else barring the most extreme circumstances. That client is able to compel their representation even if their crime is morally abhorrent to the attorney.
I don't think you can call the right to counsel and other similar positive rights/entitlements "absolute" either. They are conditional on having a functioning judicial system and state that forces others to pay for it.
Maybe I'm too far off in the weeds here, but I feel like it's important.
Well, okay, you’re operating on a philosophical level instead of what rights we functionally have in our concept of civilization.
Whether the right to counsel is a natural right is perhaps debatable. But let’s back it up to the NAP. Let’s say some group of people wants to violate your rights and put you in prison. That’s definitely an NAP violation.
But wait, what if they tell you that’s because you broke some rule? Well, if you don’t know what the rule is, and don’t understand what evidence they’re using to say you broke the rule, it’s still a violation of your rights.
What if they give you a chance to offer a defense to the rule you broke? You still don’t understand the rule and you don’t know who the witnesses are against you, but you can try to assert that you’ve not done anything wrong. But if you’re not in a position to offer some kind of defense, the trial is pointless and they’re still just violating your rights by choosing to confine you.
In order for your right to be secure in your person, your property, and your freedom of movement, you have to be given a reason to know what the rule is, why you’re accused of breaking it, and asserting that you actually didn’t break the rule. You might be innocent, and if you are, they’re violating your rights if you have no mechanism to assert that innocence.
So it’s a bit attenuated, sure. But it does follow a logical conception of your ability to assert your natural rights.
I do tend to go in a more philosophical direction when practical politics becomes too exhausting.
It’s a positive right that must be given before the state can morally take away natural rights as punishment.
The right to legal counsel doesn't mean the right to be provided the same. Means the State can't prevent you from having it.
That's inaccurate. The state is required to provide you counsel if you cannot afford it. That's what Public Defenders are.
Not as obnoxious as "parasite"...
One could use that term to describe you, Shrike.
They do not require a connection directly to a specific individual.
And fuck it, I'm pushing back even harder on this. Yes, they do. That's what a legal guardian is. You don't have a right to just go leave your baby with your drug dealer while you shoot up. Maybe people would prefer it that way but that's not what we recognize as a sufficient standard of care.
Infants have positive rights to be cared for, and those are always going to fall on a specific person until another specific person has parental duties transferred to them. We do recognize positive rights that require compulsory actions from others: the right to an attorney, for one. Attorneys cannot just ditch clients unless their client gets new counsel assigned to them, and they're compelled to zealously defend the interests of their clients regardless of their personal feelings. Jury duty is another compulsory activity (although there's a ton of strategies for getting out of it), where you're at least required to make an initial showing, with no regard for your personal autonomy.
Positive rights are a thing. We don't recognize many of them because it compels behavior of other individuals, which creates a conflict of rights, but some minimal amount of positive rights are a necessary evil.
Leftists also like the idea of toddlers being passed from adult to adult to “care for”.
Isn't that what everyone does? At least those with functioning extended families and friend groups?
The scare quotes Zeb, figure out the scare quotes.
I'm not sure I would call a legal obligation to take care of your baby a positive right of the baby but a moral obligation of the parent/guardian.
Also, and maybe I'm splitting hairs here, a baby doesn't require a specific individual to survive, just some individual willing to take the necessary care. It's not the same as a pregnancy, where the actual mother is absolutely, specifically necessary.
If you're the legal guardian of an infant, you have a legal duty, not just a moral duty, to provide care to that infant. You're responsible for it, even if that responsibility is as minimal as finding a babysitter or dropping it off with your parents. You can't just decide to go to Vegas for a weekend and come home to a dead infant because you declare you have the right not to associate with the baby.
Yes, it's a positive right. As I explained above, we have a small number of positive rights that we recognize, and duty of care to infants is one. Others include the right to legal counsel and the right to a trial by jury, and those are compulsory; you can't simply assert your own freedom of association to get out of those duties.
I understand what you are saying. Maybe we mostly disagree on terminology. I put positive rights in a completely different category from just plain rights. I agree parents or guardians have an obligation, legal and moral, to take care of a baby. I just don't think that the entire rest of the world has any such obligation.
I know I'm being way pedantic and particular here, but take the case I mention above where no legal guardian is to be found. Does that mean someone can be compelled to take on legal guardianship?
I know I’m being way pedantic and particular here, but take the case I mention above where no legal guardian is to be found. Does that mean someone can be compelled to take on legal guardianship?
Well, hey, you're operating in good faith and we're having a discussion of the basis of natural and positive rights. And ultimately, whether any positive rights can also be natural rights, that ends up being the ultimate question.
To respond to your question, a hypothetical scenario.
You live far away from the nearest town. Someone rings your doorbell, leaves a baby on your doorstep, and flees. You find the baby laying there. You try to call someone to turn the baby over to, but you're far away, and anyone in town who could come to take care of the baby is busy. It's going to take hours and hours before someone else can be found to take responsibility for this infant.
Do you have the right to put it back down on your doorstep and leave it there? Or are you compelled to care for the baby until it has an actual caretaker?
Good question. I appreciate the discussion. But I need to stop wasting time at work.
I have no idea what the legal requirement would be, although I suspect that legally I could be required to care for the child at least temporarily. Which isn't to say that what is a legal requirement is necessarily the moral requirement. I would personally feel an ethical requirement to do so because of my personal values. I don't know that I would be willing to declare that it is an absolute moral responsibility that anyone do so. I would definitely think less of someone who refused to do so, however.
Perhaps I was insufficiently specific. I meant a literal, physical connection to a specific individual, unlike a fetus, which is very specifically attached physically to a single individual.
And that's obviously the case, even considering guardianship. A mother may be the legal guardian of a given infant, which doesn't mean that it's impossible for Gramma to babysit and even feed the child.
See, this is precisely why I pushed back in the first case, because too many people try to make the "an infant can't survive on its own" argument as one against abortion, when there is a very clear delineation between an unborn child and a born one, in terms of how many different people can feed that child.
I'm not even specifically arguing in favor of abortion here, just clear thinking on the topic. A fetus is very specifically entirely dependent on a single individual in a way that a neonate is not.
The infant would require a specific adult to care for it until transferred to another entity. So you do think a specific person has to do something. They can't just throw the baby in the trash.
Clearly I was insufficiently specific.
The child is not physically attached to a single individual. I can hand the baby to another person, and hand them a bottle, and that other person can feed them. A pregnant woman cannot do the same thing with a fetus because the fetus is directly connected to them. That is the distinction being discussed, even if in unclear language.
Now it has been clarified.
Exactly. SEPARATION is the only sensible answer. It's an oxymoron to talk about a separate entity when no separation has occurred.
What baby?
This is the very problem with Pro-Life. They propagandize the subject to create things in people's imaginations that isn't there.
If you want to talk about a baby then *allow* a baby to exist in reality not just in imagination. Fetal Ejection.
Here's the problem with BJJ200, he will lawyer definitions until the cows come home, but the second you pull up definitions from multiple dictionaries that demonstrate otherwise he'll insist that it's a result of conspiracies between dictionary companies and the Vatican...
No, seriously.
Humorously I proved that to you by pulling archive on the Wayback Machine. I see that no ‘proof’ is good enough to not be ignored.
It’s important to dehumanize those you are about to kill. It makes it easier.
The hoe-bags? "Give me liberty or give me death" sound familiar?
Look, I'm fine with your side aborting every single pregnancy. I'm not sure where the disagreement is here.
The language of bodily autonomy—which we saw plenty of in the lead-up to these elections—focuses only on the rights of the mother, but never on the rights of the baby.
Which is also my sticking point with abortion. Why does only one count while the other doesn't? There's two entities here since we're placental mammals that carry to term. It might be a far easier question if we were marsupials or monotremes (let's see some idiot identify as that!), but we're not so it isn't.
“I identify as a platypus attack helicopter.”
Better make that "an electric powered platypus attack helicopter.”
Fuck that, Jet A all the way.
Again, it is literally dead simple. If through intent or misadventure, I stop the heartbeat and brainwaves of any clump of human cells between the ages of 120+ yrs. and 0 days post partum (or, in many cases, several weeks before birth), I’m liable/guilty of murder. Even if they’re perpetually unconscious or insane social derelicts, by virtue of having life, not consciousness or sanity, they have an assumption of innocence and social protection from my ill intent or misadventure. Once a clump of human cells has a heartbeat and brainwaves, a murder, the intentional stopping of the heartbeat and brainwaves, can be committed upon it by anyone.
8 weeks is too short for women to be responsible with their own reproduction? Then you can fuck right the hell off with your bodily autonomy bullshit and go home to think about the fact that, even before COVID, you “autonomy” retards force responsible gun owners everywhere to wait 3 days out of some retarded notion of responsibility for others’ lives, force bartenders to take the keys away from drunk patrons, force people to pay into health insurance for people who choose not to… and get back to us when you figure out how to quit acting like whiny, stupid, irresponsible teen bitches.
It's classic rights-balancing. Why must everything be black and white with you guys? (And those guys?)
Yes, the unwanting mother has rights w/r/t her body.
Yes, the unwanted fetus is a human being.
Neither will be allowed to prevail 100% over the other, so where does society/government draw the line (and who draws it)?
In most cases, the unwanting mother at least recklessly co-created the unwanted human fetus, so if it's a choice between the innocent and the guilty, she should be the loser in those cases: Take responsibility for your own actions. But if you don't, the state may force you to do so against your will.
On the other hand, most pro-lifers are religious nutjobs who would just as soon chain a teenage mother to a bedpost and force her to give birth, as force her to wear a burka and teenage-wed her to the next "Prophet".
On the other hand, most pro-lifers are religious nutjobs who would just as soon chain a teenage mother to a bedpost and force her to give birth, as force her to wear a burka and teenage-wed her to the next “Prophet”.
ROFLMAO! Was this paragraph supposed to be relevant to the rest of yoru post somehow or is it the result of some sort of anti-Conservative Tourrette's Syndrome that you suffer from?
The latter.
Yeah, you'd think the bot would at least try something within the last decade, like a Handmaid's Tale reference rather than a tired-ass, 2004-tier "American Taliban" one.
I tend to look at it as a place where you have conflicting rights. I think the pregnant woman's rights to control her body and what goes on in it come out on top. Others disagree and I can respect that disagreement and accept considerable compromise.
I think the pregnant woman’s rights to control her body and what goes on in it come out on top.
As you well know, we violate bodily autonomy for weed out of hand. The idea that it’s so sacrosanct we *can’t* violate it even for a potential human life, especially given the popularity of Blackstone’s Ratio, is mind blowing. This, on top of the fact that it’s otherwise so controllable and we’re otherwise so lenient.
Imagine nobody could be charged with possession if, within 20 weeks after their arrest, they declared “I feel guilty about it but, it’s really convenient to my life situation right now, so I declare bodily autonomy.” Now imagine it for smoking weed, going for a ride, and plowing into pedestrians. Why 20 weeks? Because 8 weeks is too short a time span for anybody to be responsible for their own actions.
The whole thing is fucking nuts from rationality and agency right down to fundamental human decency. Morning after pills? Sure, people forget to pay bills and do stupid stuff they regret the next morning all the time. But 8 weeks? FFS lots of places have tougher Lemon Laws… for cars.
Well, I don't think anyone should be charged with possession anyway. And I put a lot of stock in bodily autonomy. For example, I think there should be a hell of a lot more process than is required for a search warrant to search someone's anus for contraband or to force a blood draw or anything like that.
On the specific issue of abortion, I largely agree. 2 or 3 months should be plenty of time for anyone to figure out if they are pregnant and what they want to do about it. There will have to be some compromise on the issue and limiting to somewhere in the 8-16 week range for non-medically-necessary abortions seems like a reasonable place to land.
One would think fetal ejection (not killing) wouldn't even be compromising on the subject. Funny how that's completely not an option for the Pro-Life mobsters.
"There’s two entities"
Only in imaginations. NOT in reality.
And that is the problem.
https://twitter.com/Babygravy9/status/1722272210180821274?t=Ct-t2IDdGBF8CQqx_Me6rQ&s=19
Liberals like this will never, ever be convinced that demographics really matter, or that personal choice isn't the solution to every problem. The best thing you can do is just try to make sure these people don't have any power or influence.
[Link]
No shit, Sherlock, and it helps infect other areas with the corruption.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/report-chicago-area-most-corrupt-in-america/
Chicago is the most corrupt metropolitan area in America for the fourth consecutive year and Illinois is the second-most corrupt state, according to a new report from the University of Illinois-Chicago. Corruption can cost Illinois taxpayers up to $550 million per year.
Chicago led the nation with 41 corruption convictions per year, or 1,824 total, from 1976 to 2021, according to an analysis by the University of Illinois-Chicago using U.S. Justice Department data on federal public corruption convictions.
Illinois was second of the states for per-capita convictions, with 1.75 for every 10,000 residents. Louisiana was on top with 2.85 per 10,000.
The Wall Street Journal reports President Biden received money from Hunter and James Biden's deal with CEFC China Energy.
Specifically, 10% for the Big Guy.
James Biden told FBI agents that he and Hunter were trying to help CEFC China Energy purchase U.S. energy assets while they believed the company's chairman had direct ties to Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Rob Walker, a Biden business partner, also confirmed that President Biden attended a meeting with CEFC chairman Ye Jianming, who Hunter and James considered "a protégé of President Xi."
The Biden family received millions from CEFC China Energy, including a million-dollar wire transfer from CEFC's Patrick Ho, whom Hunter called "the spy chief of China," after Ho was arrested by the DOJ for bribing African politicians with millions in cash for their countries' oil rights.
In other words, President Joe Biden attended meetings and received money from his family's business deal with CEFC China Energy, a company where his brother and son collaborated with individuals they described as "the spy chief of China" and "a protégé of President Xi."
This raises the question: why are most of the corporate media and the politicians in Washington D.C. utterly silent about the President of the United States receiving money from a Chinese energy company tasked with spreading China's Belt and Road Initiative?
Why is everyone pretending like the President of the United States wasn't working with Chinese intelligence officials on spreading China's Belt and Road Initiative?
Shouldn't this be the biggest story in the world?
Shouldn’t this be the biggest story in the world?
One would think. Of course, that just means it's time for more bullshit lawfare against their favorite target.
It should be, but we have the American Media Complex instead of journalism.
Wall Street Journal is Russian Disinfo.
That wasn’t the WSJ. It was some wingnut on Twitter.
I actually clicked on the link - which is a waste of time with ML since his links never corroborate him/her.
Yes, the embedded video is definitely a wingnut on twitter.
*facepalm*
He looked at the title and rushed away thinking he had a gotcha. He couldn't even scroll one millimeter further to check if there might be actual Wall Street Journal content below.
That's why I think Open Society canned him recently.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
You really are the dumbest motherfucker here, Shrike.
"I actually clicked on the link"
If you'd actually clicked the link, you lying fuck, you would have seen Wall Street Journal video at the bottom saying exactly that.
You never ever read anything, even your own links.
Doesn't matter; turd lies.
Ultimate Cold War Championship 2 - Russia vs. China
"Shouldn’t this be the biggest story in the world?"
Yeah, but it's old news now.
(are we at that stage of the excuses?)
What the Bidens did to make money in 2017-18 is irrelevant, so long as they paid their taxes. Did they?
"I'm just going to pretend that the CEFC China Energy/Biden relationship started in 2017 and hope no one realizes it started before 2012".
I was watching ABC news tonight because??? Anyway. The announcer stated clearly, " there was NO evidence of any wrongdoing by Biden. This was a Republican smear campaign." Then on to next fluff issue. But I expected nothing different.
New emails show DHS created Stanford ‘disinfo’ group that censored speech before 2020 election
The House panel’s 103-page staff interim report says never-before-seen emails and internal communications were obtained from the group, known as the Election Integrity Partnership (EIP), and show how it worked with DHS’ Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) to flag, suppress and remove online speech in coordination with big tech companies.
Gosh, funny how a purported libertarian magazine isn't reporting on this.
Do you know of one?
Spiked, but most of their content is for the UK.
Sure, if you couldn't get enough "Living Marxism" when it was being published under that name...
A joint investigation between DeSmog UK and The Guardian revealed that Spiked US Inc. received funding from the Charles Koch Foundation between 2016 and 2018 to develop live campus events connected with The Toleration and Free Speech program sponsored by the Charles Koch Foundation.[50][25][51] The Guardian suggested that this was due to the online magazine's attacks on left-wing politics, its support and defence of hard right and far-right figures, and the many articles it publishes by writers supported by the Institute of Economic Affairs and the Koch-funded Cato Institute."
Damn commies.
Mises.org
Report: The story about the Nashville shooter's manifesto is being censored on Facebook and Google.
Water is wet.
I had no trouble finding (all three pages) of the "leaked manifesto" using Google yesterday (if you can call three scribbled notebook pages a "manifesto"...which apparently, you can!)
Keep pushing the loonjob narrative, Sparky.
There's like 50 pages worth of it, but only three have been released for some reason.
They weren't even released. They were "leaked" and the cops had a shitfit about it, promising to find the rapscallion who did it post haste.
Man, the 19th amendment was such a mistake for this country.
The mistake was Republican Comtock laws. Northern voter reaction forced the GOP to declare the 13A only freed some black men, that 14A meant some rights for everyone but women, that 15A meant NO females have a U.S. citizen's right to vote. The alternative was to repeal Comstock laws banning all birth control and allowing feds to burn opposition mail. The outcome was Tilden won, the Klan took over the former Confederate states and a communist income tax passed to replace protectionism with the next Dem sworn in. Today's mystical bigots want Comstockism and Prohibition back. Voters see that. It's in the platform.
Liz Wolfe sounds like a member of Libertarians For Statist Womb Management (and a spokesperson for Libertarians For Big-Government Micromanagement of Ladyparts Clinics).
That is no surprise when someone looks for "libertarians" at The Federalist, Young Voices, The New York Post, and National Review.
Carry on, clingers.
Fuck off and die, asshole bigot.
You're just pissy ENB isn't doing the Roundup anymore.
Fuck off, clinger.
Ladyparts Clinics
Someone hasn't been reading the memos.
"Liberty for me but not for thee" libertarians are a thing now.
What about the rights of the other party to this?
You mean the father?
Hahahahahahahahaha
What part of Agenda 2030 depopulation benchmarks don't you understand.
turd, the TDS=addled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit
No. That's Lizard Wolf, Donald I-Like-libertarians-candidate Trump, Randal and Ron Republican Paulists, Tokyo Pink--the Anschluss secretary--and bigots no less disgusting. The outcome is in the photo: at a glance anyone can see those are women, NOT Mises libertarians. Libertarians quit donating when the Christianofascists took over the party. Women left the party starting in 1980. Even before the Nazi Anschluss, 3 out of 4 soi disant libertarians were NOT women in 2016. Now it's nearly 4 out of 4.
I hope you didn’t spend too much time with those nicknames Hank. None of them scored.
The looter Kleptocracy has 6 trillion dollars with which to hire infiltrators to replace actual libertarians. Libertarian spoiler votes sufficed to reshuffle electoral votes in 13 states and accidentally elect Trump. Both looter parties, alerted to the existential threat of law-changing spoiler vote clout, would be fools not to pay any price, bear any burden, bear any hardship, support any looter, oppose any freedom to kill the LP. Lizard Wolfe, Shellshocked Tommy Knapp, Zippy Cohen, Dave Smif and the Alabama von Mises Alternative für Germany Caucus are the result. It makes perfect dollars. It's what I'd have done in their place.
In a way though, it is kind of refreshing to see that the "language of bodily autonomy" ("my body, my choice") is now fully back in vogue with Reason and the rest of their buddies on the far left.
It was very disconcerting back in 2020 when these same scumbags, led by their favorite old white man Anthony Fauci, were suddenly all like "Not your body, not your choice. Take these experimental mRNA jabs and wear your fucking face panties at all times or we'll destroy your life."
This way is a lot better. Welcome back, bodily autonomy!
Umm, hello? My mask protects you and your mask protects me!... oh, wait.
How was I able to completely ignore that little dipshit Fauci but you wingnuts went Limp Dick whenever he spoke?
The ass-clown turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides
"How was I able to completely ignore that little dipshit Fauci"
You didn't, you dutifully trotted along.
turd lies.
Who were these scumbags?
Welcome back, bodily autonomy!
Hint: Bodily autonomy and self-control are inherently synonymous. Liberteen Magazine doesn’t really care about either one and never did.
Stopped clocks and blind squirrels file:
" California's proposed reservoir could be streamlined, faces opposition"
[...]
"COLUSA COUNTY, Calif. — Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Monday he is fast tracking a new reservoir project — the first of its kind in 50 years.
The $4 billion Sites Reservoir project would be able to supply water for 3 million households to use in drier months, if approved in its current proposed state..."
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/california/californias-proposed-reservoir-faces-opposition/103-27c2dcef-1273-4688-a800-9006de64697f
CA is sees nearly zero rain for ~half the year, and CA (like any place) occasionally suffers from a drought, And CA's population has nearly doubled in that 50 year span.
You can't do anything about a drought, but you certainly can do something about water storage, and in the last 50 years, the state government has been too busy with other matters.
Environmental groups will stop the construction of reservoirs.
They even wanted to tear down the O'Shaughnessy Dam.
The claim was that water storage wasn't a real issue; there was plenty (so long as it got rationed)
Abortion's Big Night
Yay! Dead babies!
Bad night for Aborto-Freaks.
Don't you mean a good night for aborto-freaks?
^
turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides
Sorry you had a bad night, Pluggo (not really).
black (actual) genocide rolls on, progs clap, then point them in the direction of nearest planned parenthood in case they weren't aware, and offer them a ride
Reduces the number of super predators that Hillary warned about.
Compared to Abortion's Big Night in Gaza, America's Big Night for Abortion sucks.
This is an article from my town:
What's funny (and I'm smiling, but I'm fucking furious) is this transformation started back in the late 90s and I remember telling my wife (at the time) this is not going to end well... (I guess she thought I was talking about the marriage). The part that was so difficult to watch was my predictions coming true in a more horrifying way than I ever imagined. Sometimes you DON'T want to be proven right.
Good evidence that the Occupy protests turbocharged a lot of this neo-maoist cultural revolution that had been bubbling up since the Political Correctness era of the 90s.
Pragmatism does have a tendency to temper everything.
It's sad it took literal piles of bodies, the wholesale destruction of the downtown retail sector, and favelas in every green space you could pitch a tent in to make the yokels finally wake up and say, "Huh... this isn't going as well as we'd hoped..."
They will get it right next time.
Just progressive harder.
seriously. get the right people in place
Just pick a river in the opposite direction of the nearest sea, demonize everyone on the other side of it and declare yourself an oppressed ethnostate.
From Watchee to the Sea weird Seattlites will be free!
works in Austin, too. Brazos --> Gulf of Mexico
Chicago: From the Mississippi River to the Lake Michigan (sea)!
I knew something was in the air (or the water) during this last erection cycle when reading the glossy pamphlets delivered to my mail box.
Vote for __________!
Bio:
I'm a candidate for the ___ district. Here's my BIPOC lived experientialism, friends don't let friends vote Republican (Thank science there isn't one in the room). Free Palestine! Rainbow trans flags everywhere...
My policies:
Defund the police was a failure. I'm against defunding the police. The incumbent, my opponent still supports it!
Biden pressure on China yielding impressive results:
Beijing is ready to improve ties with Washington, a senior Chinese official said Wednesday, days before a highly anticipated potential meeting between leaders Xi Jinping and Joe Biden in San Francisco.
.
Recent high-level meetings have sent out “positive signals and raised the expectations of the international community on the improvement of China-US relations,” Vice-President Han Zheng told the Bloomberg New Economy Forum in Singapore.
.
“We are ready to strengthen the communication and dialogue with the United States at all levels, promote mutually beneficial cooperation, properly manage differences, and jointly address global challenges,” Han said.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/08/business/china-us-ties-biden-xi-meeting-intl-hnk/index.html
CNN wishcasting again.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit
Biden pressure on China yielding impressive results
I'LL SAY!
James Biden told FBI agents that he and Hunter were trying to help CEFC China Energy purchase U.S. energy assets while they believed the company’s chairman had direct ties to Chinese President Xi Jinping.
Rob Walker, a Biden business partner, also confirmed that President Biden attended a meeting with CEFC chairman Ye Jianming, who Hunter and James considered “a protégé of President Xi.”
The Biden family received millions from CEFC China Energy, including a million-dollar wire transfer from CEFC’s Patrick Ho, whom Hunter called “the spy chief of China,” after Ho was arrested by the DOJ for bribing African politicians with millions in cash for their countries’ oil rights.
In other words, President Joe Biden attended meetings and received money from his family’s business deal with CEFC China Energy, a company where his brother and son collaborated with individuals they described as “the spy chief of China” and “a protégé of President Xi.”
Impressive results for joes bank accounts.
Of which, presumably, the correct proportion was dutifully turned over to the US Treasury?
ABC news reported tonight there was absolutely no evidence of this. Come on man.
Fake scandal.
How is it fake, Shill?
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Note to American readers: "Global challenges" is Chinese communist jargon meaning "help nameless fake-scientist infiltrators convince dupes to ban electricity elsewhere because CRIMATE SHARKNADOS."
Note to sane and sober readers: "LIBertrans" is just Hank by another name, and yes, he has less coherence than Sqrlsy.
Finally! A bureaucrat worthy of his pay!
“Republicans approved a bill cutting Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg’s salary to just $1”
[…]
“Introduced by Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, the bill was passed by voice vote as an amendment to the funding bill for the General Services Administration, Securities and Exchange Commission and other related agencies…”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/republicans-approved-a-bill-cutting-transportation-secretary-pete-buttigiegs-salary-to-just-1/ar-AA1jAS7A
As if that's going to stop him from earning millions each year.
Ohio is a swing state.
I guess the voters agreed with Evangeline Lilly.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CZPQ4hlLFCl/
"Still, it's undeniable that this is a galvanizing political issue and that Republicans haven't known how to message their beliefs."
That's because Republicans don't have a legal leg to stand on here! The only way they can make a legal claim to ban abortion is to declare it to be murder, and abortion does not, even remotely or in any rational way, meet the definition of murder. The disingenuous support of body autonomy by the left when it only applies to abortion and not to anything else THEY want to ban should be called out too, but in this case the left is responding to an assault by Republicans and I support their reaction. When there is nothing near a supermajority of agreement amongst Americans, there should be NO law made - ever!
but in this case the left is responding to an assault by Republicans and I support their reaction.
Uh, blue states were passing abortion on demand laws before Dobbs even made it to the docket. The strict bans were the actual reaction to those hyper-permissive laws.
The law that brought Dobbs about was actually quite moderate--a 15-week ban--and this idea that Democrats went ham with promoting abortion up to the moment the infant's feet exit the magic birth canal trip in response to that is not, in fact, how things went down.
Dobbs didn’t establish 15-weeks. It gave the entirely non-definite label ‘potential’ life. What’s the time framing on ‘potential’? In many ways it destroyed the very concept of concrete Individual Liberty.
What are Democrats going to do with that ‘potential’ life excuse? Universal Healthcare for one; right out of the gate? justified by the Dobbs ruling. Same with Jacobson they used as an excuse for pandemic lock-downs and face mask requirements.
It was a massively stupid thing Republican justices did. But the most disturbing thing about it was it was a complete disregard to even reference the Constitution at all. SCOTUS has been playing that game far too long.
Dobbs didn’t establish 15-weeks.
I didn't saw that it established 15 weeks--I said the law that brought it about set abortion at 15 weeks. This is common knowledge to anyone who knows the basics of the Dobbs case. Learn to fucking read.
It was a massively stupid thing Republican justices did. But the most disturbing thing about it was it was a complete disregard to even reference the Constitution at all. SCOTUS has been playing that game far too long.
LOL, all it did was federalize the decision to the states. The fuck is the problem with that? If Democrats in California, Colorado, and New York want to abort their cloven-hooved spawn while it's traveling down the magic birth canal, let them. If Republicans in Alabama or Florida want to limit it to 6 weeks or 15 weeks, let them.
Abortion is not a constitutional right, due to the very arbitrary uncertainty over when a baby is considered a baby with rights to be protected from intentional harm, and even Ginsberg said Roe was a shit legal argument.
“all it did was federalize the decision” … from Individual Liberty … “to the states”
Where-as Post-Viable was already federalized to the State by RvW.
And Yes; There is a Constitutional right to 1. “The right of the people to be secure in their persons” 2. “Neither slavery nor **involuntary servitude**, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
The only way to manipulate your way around that is to pretend State forced reproduction isn’t involuntary servitude. And you’ve got one heck of a case to make to pull that one off. You’ll probably have to pretend black people or I mean Women people aren’t really full people and some imaginary ?baby? no one can see is.
Course that's why that federalism of RvW demanding Individual Liberty had to be shot in the foot. So the State's could start-up their Women-people slavery camp. It's a play by play argument used during the Civil War. That the 'feds' had no authority to end slavery in the States.
Like I said, I have no problem with Democrat women killing their cloven-hooved spawn, so I’m not sure why you’re limping out about this.
And if a woman just has to go bareback, there's always the morning-after pill. Republicans even proposed making it over the counter until Democrats freaked out because supposedly women are too stupid to know how to use those without a pharmacist just handing them the fucking package.
Despite the US Constitution having a 13th and 14th Amendment come about with years of Civil War; You have no problem with Pregnant-Women being Slaves of the State because your desire to force them to reproduce means more than Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
Isn't that correct? If not; please correct it.
"does not, even remotely or in any rational way, meet the definition of murder."
Because it's just "a cLuMp oF cELLs" until the Birth Canal Fairy turns it magically into a real human.
I blame Disney's Pinnocio for the terrible biological knowledge in this country.
That’s right.
Because the birth canal fairy SEPARATES in reality to two entities.
All the other BS is just imagination.
That's got to be the stupidest argument you posted yet. Hope the next time you have your dick in someone they don't abort you.
Paraphrased, "Reality is the stupidest argument ever to my fantasy-land BS propaganda."
couldn’t. fucking. wait. to get here to celebrate the baby murder
>>Many libertarians will find these abortion wins encouraging. I do not.
refreshing take.
+1 Holy shit! Yeah.
One upside to the abortion votes is that there’ll be fewer Democrats born in future.
>>"There is even close consistency for MoH and UN totals for the 2008, 2014 and 2021 Gaza Wars," reports Action on Armed Violence.
it's cite? all the way down.
End DEI
It’s not about diversity, equity, or inclusion. It is about arrogating power to a movement that threatens not just Jews—but America itself.
BY
BARI WEISS
NOVEMBER 07, 2023
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/end-dei-bari-weiss-jews
Beautiful. I love Bari Weiss.
The ass-clown turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
SPB2...This was a great article from Bari Weiss. She is right.
Vomiting acronyms when at a loss for words is a tell for mystical whack jobs. Americans raised on foreign soil among diplomats, brass and exploiters eventually face the discomfiture of meeting Jew-hating rednecks stateside. The strangest part is realizing they are actually serious in their superstition, and as immune to facts and formal reasoning as any followers of Mohammed. These are not the First Amendment defenders you're looking for.
Hank Philips doesn’t know where the acronyms came from.
Fetterman has a better take on our hostages than Reason. Fetterman.
Still waiting to see what his hump has to say about it...
Maybe it was his hump and he's just taking credit for it? Is he his hump's puppet?
Local reporter and solid tax-hater Lily Wu, who seems libertarian-ish, was just elected mayor of Wichita, Kansas.
The real litmus test comes in when yelling "Woo!" at her through a megaphone during a parade gets you put on a list.
The Ric Flair signal just went up
To be the Wu-man, you have to beat the Wu-man.
Huh, I just learned there's a thing called "Black Twitter". I guess the Media has this "followed" in some way to be able to identify it. You know, like in their rolodex they have a phone # for "The Black Community".
I refuse to believe it's actually called "Black Twitter" and not "Black X, the social media site formerly known as Black Twitter".
Black X
BlaX for short?
Malcolm X would also work.
"Excuse me miss, I speak Jive."
JIVE.EXE
"What it is, big momma? My momma didn't raise no dummies, I dug her rap!"
chump don't want the help, chump don't get the help.
>>Local reporter and solid tax-hater Lily Wu, who seems libertarian-ish, was just elected mayor of Wichita, Kansas.
they don't call Wichita State the Shockers for no reason.
This should be the easiest thing to at least perfunctorily condemn but nope, not easy for her.
Remember when Trump was slammed for condemning violence but acknowledging that, otherwise, there were good people on both sides?
To be fair, between Biden, Jean-Pierre, and other DNC mouthpieces, they do have a better chance of actually equivocating between the hostages and the hostage takers.
You are using an unwarranted assumption in your discussion of abortion, namely that it is a "baby" that is being aborted. But most people do not consider it to be a baby until a ways along the pregnancy timeline. Some use movement. Some use viability. I use brain function, as used in determining human death. I see no difference between a baby five minutes before birth and five minutes after. However, I do not consider a single cell to be a baby. You are not making that distinction.
>>unwarranted assumption
the 1980s called said even they were bored by this.
Some use movement. Some use viability. I use brain function ...
You are making a distinction based on your own biases and determinants as well. Having 'most people' buy into the distinction doesn't make it true. Also, by using the term 'Baby' along with 'Fetus', 'Zygote', single cell or clump of cells the pro-abortion movement also categorizes different stages of the human creation process so that it can make that distinction.
It falls down when the word one uses is 'life'. As in Pro-Life. The 'Life' is created at the conception. That is basic biology. It is Science that does not change with a characterization of the level of development of the cells. It is the same with humans as it is with all other animals of the world. We are the only species to add markers so we can snuff out a life without feeling shitty about it.
What other animal in the animal kingdom aborts its young?
A lot of animals in the animal kingdom actually eat their young after they are born.
So, not abortions. And what is their reasoning do you think? They had a wild party night and then went Handmaid's tale on their mate so they could enjoy a meal later on?
It's very common for pregnant animals in stressful circumstances to abort a pregnancy (or part of a litter) by fetal resorption.
Very common. So it happens all the time? Especially in puppy mills I would imagine. Resorption is not abortion. It is also not a choice the animal conciously makes. It's a biological byproduct of other factors.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0093691X23001711
Try again.
It happens with sea lions, too.
There is no such thing as a ‘right’ to conquer others 'rights'.
That’s correctly named an entitlement.
Rights are INHERENT.
And in case nobody spotted the results of that.
The Pre-Viable fetus has no 'inherent' right to life.
God himself gave the pregnant woman an 'inherent' (BOLDLY) right to own her pregnancy of which is so 'inherent' her own suicide is ?killing? it.
But I guess God himself made a mistake huh? I guess God should've known Gov-Guns were 'gods' of the unborn not him.
But most people do not consider it to be a baby until a ways along the pregnancy timeline.
Woof, the sparkles from this glittering generality could be seen in the Milky Way.
Some use movement. Some use viability. I use brain function, as used in determining human death. I see no difference between a baby five minutes before birth and five minutes after. However, I do not consider a single cell to be a baby. You are not making that distinction.
Congratulations, you conflated a false dilemma with a strawman. Notably, some DO consider a baby to be a baby at the moment of conception, irrespective of whether MOST do not. Whether Liz does or not, is irrelevant to this rhetorical handwaving you're doing.
>>RFK Jr.'s second wind:
wants to turn off your fans with his switch.
Liz the Republican Greene-teeth infiltraitor suddenly notices ALL libertarians--since our first platform--understand that women are individuals with rights even if accidentally knocked up. So why lie? 1972 plank (https://bit.ly/46XPQX6). The LP formed after the failed Human Rights Party married women's rights to collectivism. Next up was the Buffalo party whose acid-rock concert/convention scared the schaisst out of Nixon's Nazis. Canadian women and the Quebec Party understood. Canada has no abortion laws enslaving any actual political person. In Amerika, we gots infiltraitors.
Hank, the 1960s called. They want their LSD back.
"Surely people on both sides can admit that the issue is so fraught because these rights come into conflict, with no easy resolution."
Easy resolution: Individual right to fetal ejection.
Republicans are literally going to hang themselves on this one single issue because they are so bigoted about it. Literally handing their country over to the Nazi's because of their religious beliefs.
As falls Witchita, so falls Witchita Falls.
"these rights come into conflict, with no easy resolution."
There is an easy resolution: prior to the time that the fetus could thrive outside the womb without extraordinary medical intervention, the pregnancy is under the control of the woman and she may terminate it without state interference. After that time, the state has a legitimate interest in the welfare of the fetus and may infringe on the rights of the pregnant woman by intervening on behalf of the fetus to prohibit abortion, unless abortion is medically necessary to prevent permanent harm or death to the woman. This was basically the Roe framework. The Ohio amendment has more or less restored that.
+10000000.
everyone alive was conceived no reason to not start there.
These Ohio voters who want to kill off inconvenient humans may be surprised when they're old or disabled and discover that "inconvenient humans" includes *them.*
It won't be the first time closest family had the choice to pull the plug.
And it's a whole heck of a lot better that way than politicians having that power.
Yeah, I thought you'd be big on euthanasia.
You'd like it up here in Canada, the state will happily kill you for being depressed or even poor.
“the state will”……. LOL... Do you always make arguments against your own arguments?
Rick Santorum on the abortion ballot vote:
"a lot of young people come out and voted. It was a secret sauce for disaster in Ohio,” he said. “I don’t know what they were thinking, but that’s why I thank goodness that most of the states in this country don’t allow you to put everything on the ballot because pure democracies are not the way to run a country.”
Obviously, you have to increase the voting age to 54 so you can eliminate all the pre-menopausal women.
Maybe these young people think they’ll never be old or disabled in a hospital or nursing home, getting pressured to “volunteer” for physician-assisted suicide. Or maybe they don’t see the connection among these various anti-life policies.
They’re designating huge categories of human beings as lives unworthy of life, and they’re assuming the precedent won’t apply to themselves or their loved ones.
If I'm ever decrepit in a nursing home, I hope someone will kill me.
I'm hearing reports that the Canadian policy (for example) goes way beyond "decrepit" oldsters.
And it won't just be about what *you* want, it will be about whether your caretakes want to put you out of *their* misery.
Unless we have strong prolife laws. But that seems to be off the table due to the actions of these young voters.
Maybe the USA isn’t a “democracy”.
Maybe it’s a *Constitutional* Union of Republican States.
And maybe that *Constitution* never allowed such *personal* decisions to be settled by “democracy”.
The US is both a democracy and a constitutional republic.
It is not generally a direct democracy (though the ability of citizens in many states to vote directly on occasion means that at state level the states are partially direct democracies). It is insread an indirect or representative democracy. Being both a democracy and a republic is a common enough circumstance - there are many other western countries which are also democracies and republics, like France, Germany, Italy, etc.
I don't know what Americans are taught in HS civics - if anything - but this is the only country I have been to where people think that if you're a democracy you're not a republic, and vice versa. Most odd.
Nothing Odd about it (unless you're trying to manipulate it). The *Constitution* instructs any-all democratic processes in a very particular and specified way. Nothing is just willy-nilly "democratic". The *Constitution* instructs as it instructs representative democracy for very SPECIFICALLY granted areas of authority.
That 'dictation' of words over the government is precisely how the USA prevents tyranny and ensures Individual Liberty and Justice for all. How would representative "democracy" do that? Hope and pray elected representatives will never get so power-mad as to violate one's Liberty or cheat Justice? (Ironically; that's were we've strayed off to as a nation).
This is why many refer to it as "The Peoples" law over their government. It's not a RULER; It's written by the founders "the people" BEFORE their new government existed to ensure the RULER didn't change his mind and go tyrannical.
An unwinable arguement in a pluralistic society. The Republicans need to get smart (insert laugh) and realize that 2/3 of a loaf is better than none, push for ca. 13 weeks, and drop it. Otherwise, we can kiss the Republic goodbye, and get used to living in a democracy.
we can kiss the Republic goodbye, and get used to living in a democracy.
You too? See my post above.
It might be a cliche but the inferred meaning behind lax-talk differences between calling something a democracy versus a republic is in it having a Constitution. Not literally accurate; just an lax-talking assumption. The USA is not just a representative democracy (republic) either so if you want to play nitty-gritty it must be defined as a Constitutional Union of Constitutional States. As-if it's very name "United States" didn't peg that obviousness.