Something Upon Which Americans Can Agree: The FBI and the IRS Suck
Tax collectors and federal cops have always been rotten to the core.

There's no doubt that both the FBI and IRS are having a tough moment with the public. Perceptions that the national police agency is at war with half of the population have eroded its standing, while Biden administration plans to super-size the tax-collection agency further sour public perceptions of that never-popular arm of government. It might all be very depressing if you work in the public sector, or you could say that Americans are finally gaining a more realistic assessment of deeply flawed federal enforcers.
Over the past week, headlines have featured massive increases in funding for the IRS and a job ad seeking tax collectors "willing to use deadly force" as well as a high-profile raid by the FBI on the Mar-a-Lago home of former President Donald Trump unprecedented in the country's history. If any publicity is good publicity, this should have been a shining moment for government arm-twisters. But both agencies are viewed with suspicion by much of the public and suffer continuously sliding approval ratings.
Tax collectors are unpopular under the best of circumstances given that they function as licensed muggers in the service of a governing apparatus deeply resented by many of the people from whom they extract funds. In 2015, Bloomberg reported that "IRS workers are miserable and overwhelmed." The article noted that Americans are sour on the revenue service and that even agents' families and friends view what they do with horror. The service's standing has been further worsened by revelations that its agents are political players.
"The IRS has long been disliked, but its employees aren't used to being vilified," Bloomberg's Devin Leonard and Richard Rubin added. "In May 2013 the agency disclosed that it had given extra scrutiny to Tea Party groups that were seeking nonprofit status. To Democrats, the decision to group together Tea Party applications and other politically oriented groups was merely a misguided attempt to find a consistent rule after years of muddled policy. … To Republicans, the IRS's hard look at Tea Party groups proved the service has a political bias."
This is the government agency Americans see getting handed an additional $80 billion even as it advertises for hires eager to "carry a firearm" and "willing to use deadly force." That doesn't go down well with everybody.
Historically, the FBI enjoyed greater public trust than the IRS, though it really deserved nothing of the sort. In recent years, though, its reputation has taken a beating.
"Internal and external reports have found lapses throughout the agency, and longtime observers, looking past the partisan haze, see a troubling picture: something really is wrong at the FBI," Time's Eric Lichtblau reported in 2018. "The FBI's crisis of credibility appears to have seeped into the jury room. The number of convictions in FBI-led investigations has declined in each of the last five years."
In addition to leaks, mismanagement, and internal chaos, the bureau has been plagued by charges of politicization. Led by then-President Trump, Republicans saw a biased agency that favored their political opponents. That impression is fueled by continuing allegations of favoritism from current and former FBI agents compiled by GOP lawmakers, making it relatively easy for Trump to convince supporters that the raid on his home was politically motivated.
Unsurprisingly, public support for both the IRS and FBI have taken a hit. While it's difficult to separate disappearing faith in those two agencies from erosion in the government's overall standing, Gallup found approval of both the FBI and the IRS plunging by 13 points from 2019 to 2021. Like almost everything else these days, there's a partisan cast to those numbers. In this polarized environment, while Americans are divided about the FBI's search of Mar-a-Lago, 76.5 percent of Republicans see "Trump's political enemies" behind the search, according to the Trafalgar Group, while 70.5 percent of Democrats attribute the raid to "the impartial justice system."
The recent empowerment of the IRS breeds more nonpartisan reaction, with 42 percent of Democrats and 48 percent of Republicans fearing increased audits, according to Politico/Morning Consult. While much of the public may believe empty assurances that tax collectors' efforts will be directed at the wealthy, a substantial number disagree, possibly because of recent reports that low-income wage earners are targeted much more often than those with more money.
IRS efforts "resulted in these low-income wage earners with less than $25,000 in total gross receipts being audited at a rate five times higher than for everyone else," Syracuse University's Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse noted in March of this year.
You have to place a lot of faith in assurances from widely distrusted federal employees to think tax collectors will stop going after people who have limited resources with which to defend themselves.
While the headlines about the FBI and IRS are eye-grabbing, the related erosion in support is long overdue. Both government agencies have histories of abusive, corrupt, and high-handed conduct. They also have track records of political weaponization—not against one party alone, but on behalf of whoever is in power against critics and opponents.
"The FBI … has placed more emphasis on domestic dissent than on organized crime and, according to some, let its efforts against foreign spies suffer because of the amount of time spent checking up on American protest groups," the Senate's Church Committee complained in 1976.
"Two years after cases of gross misconduct by senior Internal Revenue Service officials began surfacing, a House committee has determined that the problems are widespread and probably include at least 50 to 60 'serious' examples of abuse of office," The Chicago Tribune reported in 1990.
"Since the advent of the federal income tax about a century ago, several presidents—or their zealous underlings—have directed the IRS to use its formidable police powers to harass or punish enemies, political rivals, and administration critics," The Christian Science Monitor observed in 2013.
"Nearly every examiner in an elite FBI forensic unit gave flawed testimony in almost all trials in which they offered evidence against criminal defendants over more than a two-decade period before 2000," The Washington Post reported in 2015.
That's an impressively awful record for two agencies that are finally losing substantial public support. The IRS and the FBI aren't bad because they're under the control of the wrong political party, they're bad because they've always been rotten to the core. At a moment of national revelation about the flaws of tax collectors and federal cops, Americans need to realize that we're all at risk.
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Hmmmmmmm.
In my experience pretty much all my progressive friends love the FBI. They also love the CIA. Because we're too young to remember when the national security state manufactured phony intel to launch a war in Iraq. Like, that was almost 20 years ago!
So much has changed since then. Government agencies in 2022 embrace the rainbow and transgender flags. So you know they'd never do anything bad.
#LibertariansForTrustingTheFBI
And from what I'm hearing, they love the IRS too. After all "OnLy ThOsE mAkInG oVeR $400k wIlL bE tAxEd!" Eat the Rich, man!
Yup. Again, if you make $399,999.99 per year, you have a right to your property that we would be stupid and unprincipled to violate, but, one penny more, and fuck principles and rights.
Only "good" people deserve principles and rights.
First, mad.casual, that's not the way that a progressive tax system works. Second, we've had a graduated tax system for close to a century. Google it and learn about it before you rail against it.
Oh, good. Another no-name troll poster who voids their brain of common sense and assumes no one else knows how to use their brain or Google or read bills, arguing with me about both the plain text and public claims of Biden, Yellen, and Congressional Democrats in both the House and Senate. If you've got a problem with their assertions maybe you should go explain their bill to them.
But first, dumbass, I recommend you learn the distinction between progressive taxation and tax enforcement. One has fuck all to do with the other and that's the way it should be. If you make $5,000 and commit tax fraud for $1000, you should get the exact same fucking audit and penalty as someone who makes $500,000 and commits tax fraud for $1000. Progressive auditing, and associated punishment violates equal protection and due process assuming wealthier people are more guilty up front. If your dumb ass really wanted progressive taxation to work, you'd be guaran-fucking-teeing everybody gets audited equally. Otherwise, you're wasting more money on penalizing people who are more able to contribute to the tax base and less money on the people drawing out of it. The top 10% pay 68% of the tax base. Increasing prosecutions of them isn't magically going to get 85 or 90% out of them. It just guarantees that getting the additional 1 or 2% out of them is going to be more expensive than the previous 5, 10, 30, or even 68%.
When you respond in such an unhinged way, you merely undermine yourself. If you think the IRS is violating your Constitutional rights, you should talk with your lawyer.
When you respond in such an unhinged way, you merely undermine yourself.
For reference to others who cry "Wah! Ad hominem."; here's an example of an actual ad hominem. "You're a dumbass and you're wrong because [logical reasons that have nothing to do with the speaker]." is an insult and an argument. The logical reasoning has nothing to do with the fact that the speaker is a dumbass and stand even if the speaker is not a dumbass. "You're wrong because you're a dumbass." or "You're wrong because the specific law doesn't apply to you." is an ad hominem. The logic of the argument is that the speaker is a dumbass or some aspect of their persona renders the argument moot. Whether my rights were violated or not, protecting people unequally is, definitively unequal protection. The distinction matters and the argument is valid even if, and in many cases in this country's history *especially if*, I'm the one getting the protections.
Along those lines, "Your arguments are wrong and you're irrelevant and your arguments don't apply because of that." means the original, self-standing claims are unrefuted and effectively cedes that Democrats are claiming to protect people unequally.
Politicians claim only those over 400k will see extra scrutiny, Senator Joe Manchin, among others, published that uncritically on his senate webpage. Mad.casual is correctly referencing that, not tax brackets.
I would suggest you work on comprehending context before getting all snarky and then complaining when he insults you back. Yes, we can all see that "Google it and learn about it before you rail against it" is insulting.
After inflation is finally (if ever) tamed, we'll all be making over $400,000.
Dude, Biden reduced inflation to zero!
Inflation was redefined as the second order derivative of the increase in prices. Same way they redefined spending years ago. If we cut our planned increase in spending we have reduced spending.
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Bullshit! If it was Putin who raised prices, it is Putin who is bringing them back down.
Oh child, Biden reduced inflation to LOTS of zeros!!
I had assumed the inflation was intentional to bring this about.
Working part time at Wendys in the Phillipines!
They are OK with the FBI as long as they remain focused on their political enemies.
If the FBI had spent half the energy on BLM as they did on J6 the opinion would be the opposite
What makes you think the FBI spent less energy fomenting BLM riots than they did J6?
Let's see go to @fbi and see what effort was used to track down trespassers.
Were BLM protestors rounded up by SWAT raids and then held indefinitely without bail? Were BLM protestors subject to solitary confinement in a special prison.
Here's a summary
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/09/realclearinvestigations_jan_6-blm_comparison_database_791370.html
Fomenting was doing a lot of work in the comment you responded to.
I think the question might be wrong - since the Jan. 6th attack was an assault on the Capitol, wouldn't that involve more FBI resources? A Floyd protest in Los Angeles would usually be handled by the LAPD, and prosecuted by the local DA. The FBI would be called in for Jan. 6th if the local authorities couldn't handle the case.
Thanks for saying that, Kind, even though it's tragic that the point you made isn't understood by most of the readers here. Nice to see reason in the comment section of Reason.
Thanks for saying that, Mitchell duh Mountain, even though it's hilarious that you retards either don't read or don't seem to know the difference between 'foment' and 'suppress', 'investigate', or 'prosecute'. It's tragic to see such willful self-retardation in the otherwise literate comment section of Reason.
The FBI was called in to handle attacks on federal buildings such as the courthouse in Seattle at least, but I think the scale of the actual "attacks" is wildly different. A few people attempted to burn the courthouse vs several hundred parading through the halls of the Capitol out of a mob of 10k+. We know this because they recently disclosed the scope of the geofence warrant used in the Seattle courthouse arson attempt.
They were too busy kidnapping governors.
Besides, it’s clearly unconstitutional for Congress to have a Church Committee!
Interesting. The subject appears to be losing the dementia that causes him to declare 'Both sides!' and then reflexively blame Trump. I'd say early tests of the TDS vaccine look promising but I'm gonna wait for the longitudinal data before making any declarations. Monthly boosters is not an effective policy to eradicate the disease.
TDS is incurable, like HIV.
The ironic part is that TDS affects both teams with neither admitting to having it.
Sarc is immune, of course.
Although not to the ravages of severe alcoholism.
Yes, TDS is bad. For anyone to think anything negative about Trump, one clearly must be deranged. Trump, as MAGAs will tell you, is perfect. Trump is God. Any assertion that Trump might be a dishonest con man must be dismissed as derangement, right?
Now this subject is presenting the classic symptoms. Note how a clear explanation of 'both sides' *and* 'blame Trump' oxymoronically was provided, but the interpretation was strictly one sided, eliciting multiple mentions of Trump's name and even going so far as to assert Trump was deified rather than recognizing the symptoms of dementia.
One might wonder what social or family cues would cause them to say "Both sides" when they really mean "Trump" and lash out with cries of "Trump!" at the mere mention of dementia, but not all pathologies are so simple and such an analysis would ignore the seemingly willful, and potentially irreparable, self-retardation sufferers seem to go through.
FBI....Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
The FBI has betrayed the very ideals they bray about incessantly. The FBI is rotten to the core.
IRS....Does anyone seriously think that the addition of 80K+ agents won't result in more government heavy-handedness???
The IRS has no ideals, and it is rotten to the core.
The sidearms they will carry says it all.
Mexican style "taxation".
The sidearms are only to be used for those people who dare to dispute any findings made by the IRS agents.
As somebody I know asked...where exactly will they get CPA's from to do audits?
Work from prison. Duh. Larceny convicts most likely.
Women's studies majors with a chip on their shoulder
I think the IRS mostly does its job competently within the resources provided and you can blame Congress for the complicated tax code. My state's revenue department is much worse.
Their job is to harass the political opponents of progressives?
No, no. Conservatives are just naturally more corrupt. The ratio is clearly definitely most certainly 98/2
Provide one example of the reverse. That is where a Democrat was politically persecuted
You make such a definitive statement
I think this is sarcasm...
Yep. I'd hoped the "clearly definitely most certainly" would've made that obvious. But that still assumes a reader is capable of reading more than 2 sentences in sequence.
Lois Lerner
Her investigation of herself turned up nothing l
Maybe. I'm open to that, though I think the IRS also now has interest to prevent tax code reform since that gives them work.
Some dumb shit here. Yes, the author is correct that "Led by then-President Trump, Republicans saw a biased agency that favored their political opponents. ", these knuckle draggers believe anything this obvious con man says, including his right to hold highly classified docs in his basement after he lost reelection. Then they quote the 1976 Church Report about the FBI not focusing enough on organized crime without mentioning they put the mafia out of business and a relic of the past a little later that century. As to the IRS, it has been long known that it can't man up enough to counter the expensive accountants and tax lawyers the most wealthy can and do assemble to avoid taxes and that tax cheats cost the US about $1 trillion a year. I know from personal connection of incredibly brave work that FBI agents still turn in while we all sleep soundly at night and columns like this are dim witted for dim wits.
The Church Commission outlined years of abuse of Americans' civil rights by the FBI, including things like Johnson bugging MLK without any probable cause.
The Church Commission wasn't about "the FBI didn't concentrate enough on organized Crime". BTW, J Edgar Hoover denied the existence of the mafia and refused to use RICO to go after them until the day he died in the early 70s. Yeah, the FBI didn't go after organized crime. Regardless, no one thinks that was the issue the Church Commission had with the FBI.
You are the most pig ignorant toothless hillbilly on the planet. Oh my God you are stupid.
You are the most pig ignorant toothless hillbilly on the planet. Oh my God you are stupid.
Worth repeating.
Thanks for that unnecessary history lesson from 50 years ago. We got rid of Hoover that long ago and nothing you are claiming happened then is happening now or recently.
On the Church commission and organized crime, I quoted the author you stupid fuck.
lol how about setting people up during the war on terror? plotting to kidnap the governor of michigan? anything ringing a bell?
It has been fascinating watching those of you on the left go from classical liberal concepts to straight authoritarians backing government police forces.
Fascinating? I would say terrifying.
Leftists always like a nice brownshirt.
You mean like the ones that escorted that little black kid into school in Little Rock or the feds that by force ended segregation in the south where I lived then and now?
"Led by then-President Trump, Republicans saw a biased agency that favored their political opponents. "
Prove that statement wrong. Just one example will do
Let's see;
Obama's handling of presidential records in a storage unit in IL? NO, wait.
Hillary's handling of classified documents and destruction of evidence? NO, wait.
The investigations into the Clinton foundation & Russia? NO, wait.
The investigations into Hunter Biden's gun crimes? NO, wait.
The investigation into Hunter Biden's business deals and "the big guy"? NO, wait.
Anyone's trip(s) to an unnamed island? NO, HELL NO!
OK, I give up.
How was Obama's handling of presidential records in violation of any laws? I thought the National Archives (NARA) handled that.
Obama's records:
"But the National Archives and Records Administration, or NARA, which preserves and maintains records after a president leaves office, confirmed on Friday afternoon that Mr. Obama had turned over his documents — classified and unclassified — as required under the Presidential Records Act of 1978.
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The National Archives “assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act,” the statement said. “NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area, where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, D.C., area.”
“As required by the P.R.A.,” the statement added, referring to the Presidential Records Act, “former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the presidential records of his administration.”
A spokesman for Mr. Trump did not immediately respond to a request for comment...."
It can't be proven wrong, since Republicans "see" whatever the con man Trump tells them to see.
"Eleven days before the 2016 presidential election, Comey announced that the FBI had discovered additional emails and is reviewing them to see whether they are related to the bureau’s investigation into Clinton’s handling of classified information." They were not. How was this FBI action biased in favor of Trump's political opponent?
The GOP has become the party of "pity poor me," the party of "I am not responsible," the party of "I am aggrieved, and whenever I do not get my way it's not fair." All led by the con man Trump.
Michel, you failed to mention that Comey announced Hillary's investigation, but did not mention the fact that Trump was also under FBI investigation at the time. Yes, poor Donald
"As to the IRS, it has been long known that it can't man up enough to counter the expensive accountants and tax lawyers the most wealthy can and do assemble to avoid taxes and that tax cheats cost the US about $1 trillion a year."
What, like the government NOT getting it's hands on another trillion dollars of people's money is a bad thing?
1. There's a marked difference between legally structuring one's finances to minimize taxes. Tax avoidance is a sound practice. If rich people can hire lawyers and accountants to help them minimize their taxes, so what?
2. Tax evasion, the illegal practices whereby people simply don't pay taxes they owe or commit fraud to make it appear as if they owe less taxes. That's cheating.
3. Cheating on taxes is hardly the private bailiwick of the rich. The EITC program--tax credits for the working poor--for example, is widely acknowledged to costs tens of billions of dollars in wrongful payouts, with EITC claims upwards of 25-30% being invalid (either fraud or unintentional wrongful claims).
Yes, when those most able to afford the trillions Trump and the GOP OK'ed in expenditures while he was in office, don't pay up.
Yes, your comment was definitely some dumb shit.
Most tax dodgers do not have high incomes. Think of all the cash tips, nannies and hard-working teen babysitters, small contractors and handymen, food trucks, informal bartering groups, not to mention black market participants.
I understand that you believe all these people are evil for disobeying the cash demands of their armed masters. But maybe you could for a second at least consider the possibility that there is instead something wrong with those demands.
incredibly brave work that FBI agents still turn in
I don't doubt that a scumbag like you sleeps more soundly knowing that the FBI is out there harassing innocent people, but it pisses normal people off.
Fuck off, slaver.
-jcr
John you ignorant fuck, I personally know of a federal case against a gang leader who killed people and peddled drugs, etc - it was a nationally covered case - where the best evidence against him - he with associates was convicted and is now in prison - came from an FBI agent posing as a Mafia guy from the opposite coast who would spend long hours with the leader in his club, several times a month on supposed business trips. When he rolled out of the club at 3:00 AM he went home to his wife and 3 kids in the suburbs. I know the main prosecutor in the case and met the guy. You have those kind of balls? You think his wife and kids weren't worried? You think we should be thankful he put that guy and his posse away?
Cool story, bro.
Now try to rationalize the facts that FBI tried to blackmail MLK into committing suicide, lied to keep an innocent man in prison for decades to protect a scumbag mob informant, and provided the money to build the truck bomb used in the first WTC attack. That's just off the top of my head, there are myriad examples of FBI pulling rotten shit to gain power. Peter Strzok was not in any way unusual.
-jcr
ENB and Sullum don't agree. They think the FBI is tops and Trump got what he deserved.
And reason board member Ken White spent all of 2020 and 2021 assuring everyone that if the FBI did something, they had good reason. There is literally no one out there who sucks DOJ and FBI's cock harder than Ken White.
Reason of course was all about the integrity of the FBI when they were going after Trump and Mike Flynn. They expect their readers to be as dishonest and stupid as they are I guess.
Seriously they already have spent the entire time from 2016 and on planting evidence on trump and Republicans. Anyone that trusts the FBI is an idiot
The FBI has been crooked for its entire existence. It didn't start with them losing their minds over Trump.
-jcr
If true, why didn't the Republican congress defund the FBI?
Cite please?
Because they don't like Trump or Flynn. Therefore the rule of law doesn't apply. See how libertarian that is. Ask Nick
And in other news, coincidentally, 70.5% of Democrats suffer from severe TDS.
Don't forget all the poor GOP sufferers who fly into a defensive rage whenever anyone says "Boo" about their man. That certainly qualifies as derangement.
I couldn't care less what Democrats say about Trump.
What I do care about is that Democrats are abusing their power and abusing institutions of government to persecute their political enemies, to enrich themselves, and to destroy our traditional system of government.
Of course, deranged people like you think that's a good thing.
I'm deranged? No. I haven't already jumped to conclusions of guilt or innocence. That's what the deranged folks have done. Friday assumes guilt while you assume innocence. Two sides of the TDS coin.
I'm just munching on popcorn and enjoying the show.
Sorry to have to break this to you, but when someone is saying that a move against Trump is a violation of our longstanding rights and liberties, your initial reaction is to accuse them of being a Trump acolyte. I mean, look at what you just said, "while you assume innocence". Err...yeah, the presumption of innocence is not only the hallmark of our judicial system, it's also the default position of rationality.
Ha ha he forgot that part of our justice system. It's like Trump can't prove there was no Russian collusion so there must be. That is what the hoaxers fall back on.
I mean prove to me you don't have sex with monkeys? Oh you can't then it must be true.
Sorry to have to break this to you, but when someone is saying that a move against Trump is a violation of our longstanding rights and liberties, your initial reaction is to accuse them of being a Trump acolyte.
Sorry to break it to you but when someone gets angry because a politician they voted for is being investigated for breaking the law, then yeah I'm going to assume they're an acolyte.
So did Obama break the law?
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/08/11/when-will-the-fbi-raid-obamas-home-over-his-missing-records-n2611588
See justice is supposed to be equal and not be meted out based on politics
Person A is innocent because person B did something bad.
Impeccable logic.
Because person B is of the correct political party and is not prosecuted.
But you're a [partisan hack and nope you can't provide a counter example which reinforces you're a partisan hack.
Has every president taken documents with him? Yes
Has any president been raided? No
Have we changed enforcement policies? Good question
If we have is there a statute of limitation on presidents who have not complied? Nope
Is Obama being raided? Nope
Last chance to come clean or adios
Come clean? All I'm doing is pointing out how partisan hacks like yourself may as well be shouting "But Mommy! Johnny did it first! Not fair!"
Sarc, YOU are a partisan hack. You hate conservatives far more than you care about libertarian values. Probably because you are a self admitted bitter drunk.
I didn't used to hate conservatives. But you and your stupid friends are getting me to reconsider.
See justice is supposed to be equal and not be meted out based on politics
Yet everyone here saying Trump did nothing wrong because politics. You don't see the irony?
No, people are saying Trump did nothing wrong because his behaviors were consistent with longstanding practice that wasn't previously considered criminal. That's why your "Trump broke the law" spiel above falls flat. If the standard is that something okay then it becomes totally unacceptable for one guy and then becomes okay once again once he's out of the picture, objecting to it isn't the sign of an acolyte. It's the sign of some semblance of intellectual consistency. It's saying making one exception for acceptable behavior is dishonest.
So if Democrats were facing similar scrutiny you'd be ok with all of this? I somehow doubt that.
If this were the universal standard, I'd be okay with it. I've made much the same comment in multiple other Trump-related threads - what rules are you willing to see applied to Trump that you'd be okay with becoming the standard going forward for all administrations? So far, the response I've gotten from Trump's passionate detractors is crickets.
what rules are you willing to see applied to Trump that you'd be okay with becoming the standard going forward for all administrations? So far, the response I've gotten from Trump's passionate detractors is crickets.
I'm seeing the same thing from his acolytes.
But sarc isn't a Democrat. He just applauds government abuse to go after filthy Republicans. And if you ask him libertarians align more closely with democrats, see covid.
Cowardly retard talks shit in third person. More at eleven.
You’re just angry because he’s is correct. You should just admit what you are.
No. We must always assume the built of anyone accused by the government of anything. This will, of course, save a great deal of resource in things like "trials". No more legal system is needed, so lawyers and judges can get real jobs. Next, we save a great deal on prisons by immediately executing anyone found guilty (see above).
"built" = "guilt"
But, the presumption of innocence is not even part of our income tax laws and IRS enforcement efforts in case you haven't noticed.
I don't "assume" anything. I observe that:
(1) The FBI and DOJ have failed to provide a meaningful justification or explanation for the raid.
(2) The accusations against Trump make no legal or logical sense.
(3) This follows a long-standing pattern of abuse of power by the FBI, the DOJ, and the Democrats.
Yes, you are. You're also a smug, ignorant jerk.
Yes, you are. You're also a smug, ignorant jerk.
Because I haven't made up my mind, I'm a smug, ignorant jerk. While those of you who have made up your minds are the rational ones.
Suuuuuuuuuuuure.....
But you can't provide a single counter example.
Apparently you think this is some sort of "gotcha," but it really has nothing to do with anything.
Because you've been"gotten"
If you say so. All you've proven is that you see a relationship between things that have nothing to do with one another. But if you want to pat yourself on the back, go for it. Be sure to say "Hurr durr" a few times while you do it.
You're just dumb. Sorry if you can't see it's political.
If you don't want to use Obama as an example we have Hillary.
Sure it's political. It's political both ways. You only see one way because when you're married to a team you only see what the other team does.
Explain
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2022/08/11/when-will-the-fbi-raid-obamas-home-over-his-missing-records-n2611588
Your defense is "Obama did it first! Not fair!"
Brilliant.
*snore*
My defense is unequal justice you partisan tyrannical a-hole.
"But Mommy! Johnny steals cookies all the time! Why am I getting in trouble? Not fair!"
My defense is unequal justice you partisan tyrannical a-hole.
Which was enough justification to declare independence from King George and his men, but is not enough for the lefty shitweasels with TDS.
really, GFY. You drag these comments, and are starting to sound like Hihn.
Sarc, you’re homogeneously anti Republican, and regularly give cover to democrats. Often carrying water for them. So your claims of neutrality are bullshit.
You do know dishonesty is part of your alcoholism, right?
You remind me of a stupid person shouts "You're stupid!" over and over when they hear some smart person talking about math or some other subject that is beyond their mental capacity.
It’s sad watching you deteriorate.
Speaking of stupid people who shout insults when they don't understand something...
Who do you think you’re kidding, Sarcasmic? There hasn’t been an independent thought in you hollow brain case in years.
The Democrats and their FBI minions have been crying wolf w/r/t to Trump ever since he threw his hat in the ring for the Republican nomination. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that FBI's got something real this time.
-jcr
I have made no judgement on Trump's "guilt", if by that you mean doing something illegal and prosecutable. I don't know. If you mean did he have classified docs in his fucking house and shouldn't have, fuck yes. Who doesn't know that?
YOU don't know that, asshole. If you're taking FBI's word for anything regarding Trump, you're an idiot.
-jcr
You should hear what Americans think about journalists and libertarians!
Two types of people.
1) People who compulsively believe that the ?right? Gov-Gun poking dictator harassing 'those icky' citizens will fix everything.
2) People who believe Gov-Guns (monopoly of gun forces) only purpose is to ensure everyone (including the 'icky' people) Individual Liberty and Justice.
#1 complains that the ?right? God-Complex-ed dictator isn't **in-charge** enough and doesn't pull out Gov-Guns enough on its own citizens.
#2 complains that a GUN power (monopoly) used against it's own 'icky citizens' is criminal and that a monopoly of GUNS has a very limited scope of purpose in defending a nation against foreign enemies and domestic treason (see above).
Three kinds of people:
1) People who trust the government (progressives).
2) People who trust the government when their team is in power (conservatives).
3) People who do not trust the government (everyone else).
1) Did the folks in the pink hats in 2017 trust the government or were they "election deniers"? How about the 2000 election?
2) They do? Were conservatives a little skeptical about the Russian hoax and LEO kneeling for BLM protests? Progressives are fine with prosecuting their political enemies though.
Your list is wrong
Progressives love government, even when they're not in power.
Conservatives love government when they are in power, and when they're not in power they put on a good show in support of limited government.
The rest of us look on with dismay and disgust.
Ok I've issued this challenge a few times unanswered. Give me one political prosecution of a Democrat during Trump's tenure.
What does that have to do with him violating the law by taking home sensitive documents?
Yeah, you’re totally neutral. Do the democrats just spitroast you, or do you have them go double anal on you?
If you refrain from taking the FBI's word on anything at all, you won't look nearly as idiotic.
-jcr
And by "the rest of us", you mean "the dregs of society, like you".
If you think people who think for themselves are the dregs of society, which you apparently do because you attack anyone who isn't parroting your team's talking points, then yeah.
No, we think lying leftists like you are the dregs of society. Whatever your sick motivations may be.
^^^
You're really trying to impress the trolls. Keep it up and you'll have to get in line behind Mother's Lament for a blowjob from JesseAz.
You don’t think for yourself; you’re a mindless zombie, Sarcasmic.
As for me, I’m an ex Democrat and now independent; I’m not sure what “team” you think I’m part of.
Sure, sure; Cause Trumps administration was so 'faithful' in government there was an entire committee to De-Regulated it.
Conservatives have a name for conservatives who act just like progressives (which is you attempt at making a point) they are generally called RINO'S and they are disgusting deceitful creatures that give *real* conservatives a bad name.
RINO is a term for Republican politicians who don't do what FOX News tells them to do.
How dare they represent their constituents instead of bowing to The Party?
RINO is a term used for folks like Liz Cheney who cozy up to Democrats and follow their agenda. Fortunately, it looks like the people of Wyoming are going to show her the inside of the unemployment office.
I remember the first time I noticed a RINO as a teenager back in the 80s-even though I was decades away from hearing the term. It was Mark Hatfield “R” OR. He was t the left f a lot of Democrats I knew at the time
There are also self-aggrandizing, ignorant jerks like you who eat popcorn while the country turns into a totalitarian shithole around you.
As opposed to what? Self-important, arrogant assholes who think that the act of voting makes them special? Team players who think that their team will somehow make a difference?
Fuck that shit. I won't vote for Giant Douche or for Turd Sandwich. And I'm all done voting against the greater of two evils.
Give me something or someone I can vote for.
Until then I'll keep munching on the popcorn because getting involved is nothing but a frustrating act in futility.
No, you'll do absolutely nothing other than eat popcorn: a fat, lazy, stupid American wallowing in self-righteousness, with no idea of what's going on in your own country or the rest of the world.
The IRS and the FBI aren't bad because they're under the control of the wrong political party, they're bad because they've always been rotten to the core.
True. But, I think it misses a rather important point. One political party has proven far more adept (probably due to the ideological predispositions of the federal bureaucracy) at making use of these corrupt institutions for nefarious purposes. The only way you're going to set this right is to abolish the organizations and, yes, punish those within those organizations who abused their power. Needless to say, the party that has used these corrupt organizations for nefarious purposes is not only unsupportive of that course of actions, they're actively seeking to give those organizations more unaccountable power.
Yep it's not "both sides"
Look, it's not as if I think the Republicans are above comparable behaviors. It's that I don't think they're in a position to do so. They don't have a friendly federal bureaucracy. The federal bureaucracy is, for fairly obvious reasons, going to be wildly more supportive of the party that embraces a larger role for the state and enhanced technocratic authority.
I forgot to add that this effectively means that, to the extent that Republicans are actually good on issues (at least from a genuinely libertarian position), it means they're all the more likely to be the target of the administrative state's wrath. Unfortunately, outlets like Reason will happily support these attacks (or at least evade their existence) because the technocracy has a largely cosmopolitan ethos and they view cosmopolitanism as synonymous with liberty.
I think liberals migrate to government careers. Conservatives just want to be left alone.
If your career is more government that's what you vote for. Trump was really not that conservative. Still too much so so let's sick law enforcement on him.
They did the same to GWB. FFS they did the same with Romney. They will do the same if DeSantis runs
I think liberals migrate to government careers.
Well, progressives, but yeah, they probably do. But, it ultimately doesn't matter. The incentives of the administrative state are going to make most people in the bureaucracy trend progressive. Given a choice between an ideology that promises you greater career growth, more resources and higher status and one that puts you in the position of filling out forms in the corner, most people are going to choose the former. So, it's not something you can fix by hiring more conservatives. You'll wind up with a bunch of guys like Romney or Kasich. It's the apparatus itself that has to be dismantled.
Less government is the answer
This is brainwashing at the Animal Farm Ovis aries level. Republican looters goood, Dem looters baaad. The difference between them here and now versus their communist and nazi brainwashee forbears of 1930s Germany is a slightly lesser saturation in degree among looter collectivists of similar kind. Hence the overarching importance of getting rid of the Libertarian Party, which pulled spoiler votes to outside the Venn circle of looter altruism, off of a horizontal line and into relevant categorical distinctions of a Nolan Chart. To them we are insurgent aliens from the Second Dimension.
That's an awful lot of words to say nothing.
Nobody is saying looters are good. What I am saying is that the bureaucracy is going to give Democratic looters greater opportunity to realize their nature as looters than Republican looters.
Explaining things to Hank is a waste of time.
The FBI was rotten when it was under Trump's DOJ, too.
Lik many agencies (and corporate divisions), they became locked into groupthink and bought into institutional self-preservation and self-justification. Creates an "us against the world" mindset, and the bureaucracy continues on its own path rather than under the orders of the people supposedly in-charge, and detrimental to accomplishing their mission.
The Republican Party weaponized both bureaus to attack production and trade in enjoyable drink and drugs shortly before the Panic of 1907-12 and the Crash and Depression of 1929-34. Great effort goes into conditioning the public to see coincidence, business cycles, bad luck but not causation at work there. While the Dems have always practiced cruel racial collectivism, the other half of The Kleptocracy invariably wrecks the economy using the same sneaky and violent agencies. That they are in it together makes deception easier.
I love idiots who pretend Republicans wreck economies...
FDR (D) - The Great Depression
Obama (D) - The Great Recession
Biden (D) - The Great Inflation
P.S. The Federal Reserve Act was pitched by Democrats..
Great effort goes to you in conditioning the public that causation is really all the rights fault while ignoring every demise was at the helm of the left.
Hank is another leftist masquerading as a libertarian.
Doofus! Yeah you!
Great Depression started in 1929
The Great Recession started in 2008
The Great Inflation started with the vaccine and the pandemic winding down and is WORLWIDE with the US in the middle of the pack of developed countries.
lol... And this is how we leftards PROJECT >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything that happens with leftard leadership is the rights fault....
And our partisan ignorance is soooo thick we cannot even comprehend that FDR had 12-F'En years, Biden destroyed the economy at mid-term, and Obama had 8-F'En years. And we projecting leftards like to pretend as long as the USA isn't as sh*tty as the rest of communist world; it isn't sh*tty enough.
"cruel racial collectivism,"
Is that what we're calling the Klan now?
Remember the whole debacle about banks reporting transactions over $600 to the IRS? That is what all those shiny new agents will focus on. And they will be keeping their promise. Going after maids and groundskeepers and nannies and handymen who engage in cash business is not auditing households. It is auditing businesses.
The Babysitters' Club better get ready to defend against RICO charges.
I'll be so glad when Trump is finally out of office so we can stop talking about him.
You know those British secret files with a one hundred year hold?
Well, bashing Trump will still be going on long after they are all released.
After he dies, the press will still dig him up once a year to be sure he is still dead.
Democrats want more big government when they are in charge to fuck over Republicans. Republicans want more big government when they are in charge to fuck over Democrats. The rest of us are two decks below pulling on the oars.
Both the Democrats and the entrenched bureaucracy want more secret police. IRS audits are unavoidable and require proof of innocence. When the process is as bad or worse than the punishment, it is the perfect way to keep political enemies off balance while any resistance is spun as paranoia.
This!
When the FBI was taking down black people and civil rights protesters and socialist-leaning folks they were lauded. When they take down the most corrupt con man they are distrusted? If Trump gets back in power he will use the FBI or some other entity like it to take down his opponents. It's all a right-wing game they play.
Likewise with the IRS. The whole hate-theIRS game is touted by the wealthy. Poor people and modest middle-class people shrug their shoulders at all this. Can the IRS be politically weopnized? Of course. But so can eliminating taxes and letting corporations run amuck.
LMAO.... Can the IRS be politically weaponized? Of course. But so can eliminating taxes and letting corporations run amuck.
Heaven FORBID armed criminals aren't allowed to STEAL with GUNS!
Justice is all about ARMED THEFT!!! /s
The amount of ignorance it takes to spout such B.S. is amazing which pretty much goes hand-in-hand with the amount of self-serving B.S. it takes to be leftard criminal mind.
I free with your use of the word ‘when’. Everything after that was bullshit. Do you write a lot of democrat fan fiction? Or was this an isolated attempt?
“ When the FBI was taking down black people and civil rights protesters and socialist-leaning folks they were lauded.”
…by democrats.
When the FBI was taking down black people and civil rights protesters
Don't they still do that?
"The whole hate-theIRS game is touted by the wealthy. Poor people and modest middle-class people shrug their shoulders at all this."
I don't suppose you have any proof of this ridiculous claim? You know, beyond the "everybody just knows this" sort of bullshit?
You would think, but the Democrats love Federal cops
Well somebody has to enforce their authority, right? It's not like your average Democrat is going door to door taking away guns and money, themselves.
Biden's IRS and FBI suck. Obama's IRS and FBI sucked. The problem seems to be very one sided.
The IRS has stockpiled five million rounds of ammunition and spent $725,000 on bullets this year, according to Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz, who has introduced a bill to block future ammunition purchases by the agency.
3,151,500 rounds of pistol ammo. Over 350,000 rounds of shotgun ammo. Almost 1.5 million rounds of rifle ammo.
According to Fox News, within the last 10 years, the IRS stocked up with $11 million of ammunition.
By the end of 2017, the IRS already had around 4,487 guns on record. They only have about 2300 special agents qualified to carry them.
So they are planning on going door to door and just straight up robbing people?
If there is a silver lining to any of this, I suppose armed robbery is a bit more honest than taxation.
This is a retarded take.
For example, if a far left person hates the FBI because they aren't targeting their political enemies hard enough and a far right person hates the FBI because they aren't shooting enough minorities, does it really matter that they both agree that the FBI sucks?
It does if it removes the protection they have and leads to people noticing historical crimes and corruption and thus to reform. I doubt it will, but it's nice to dream.
Colossal understatement: Tax collectors and federal cops have always been rotten to the core.
Tax collectors have been disliked and vilified back to the New Testament, so nothing new here.
However, if I say I'm carrying a gun and am willing to use lethal force, I'm put on a watch list and/or arrested. But if the government's willing to pay you to do that for them, atta boy!
Two worlds, two sets of justice. How the democrats behave is no surprise to anyone.
Read up on the French revolution.
Actually, we do not all agree on that. The FBI plays an important role in controlling crime. I suppose one's position on the FBI depends on whether the criminal is your political leader, or a rioter trying to end rule by democracy on January 6, 2021, or an anti-abortion protestor, instead of, say, a union organizer, or pro-choice protestor.
I have had many dealings with the FBI over the years. Not once did they solicit a bribe. Not once did a client report that they solicited a bribe.
Some clients reported that a police agency seized more money and drugs than the police reported. This never happened with the FBI, even once.
As for the IRS, once again, one would despise the IRS if one were a wealthy tax dodger, not if they were an ordinary citizen who pays their taxes. Yes, Donald Trump and Elon Musk, and their devoted followers hate the FBI and IRS. No wonder they have to stock up on ammunition. To most of the rest of us, they seem to be doing their job.
Yeah, if you have nothing to hide, it's fun to spend 6 months complying with IRS demands for receipts and documentation. It's almost like Disney World!!
Remember the flight instructor in MN who called the FBI to say the 9/11 terrorists were in his class and only wanted to learn how to take off, not land? I'm sure the FBI would have jumped on that if Fred hadn't brought in doughnuts that morning.
Worth every penny.
There is zero evidence for that assertion.
Good god, you really eat up that progressive b.s.
Trump and Musk don't giv a f*ck about the IRS; if they get audited, they pay a cool million dollars to their law firms to handle it and don't worry about.
IRS audits are devastating to the middle class and small businesses.
Of course, you hate the middle class and small businesses.
The FBI plays an important role in controlling crime.
I stopped here.
Does that include fabricating and botching evidence. That is not speculation it is fact.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/fbi-acknowledges-flawed-forensic-testimony-affected-at-least-32-death-penalty-cases
You know who else created powerful government agencies that sucked?
The problem, Mr. Tuccille, is that Americans don't agree that FedGov, even the IRS and FBI, suck.
It’s hard for me to believe my own eyes but I followed this article link:
https://twitter.com/FordFischer/status/1557384869596090369
then Fischer’s link to the IRS job listing to be certain it was real, I saw the listing as per Fischer’s claim, jumped to Messenger to send it to a friend. When I jumped back to Safari the page refreshed and the deadly force bullet point was gone.
Just to clarify-
It's not "half" of the country. It's only the bottom third.
Nuke the FBI because it is corrupt and flawed. Replace it with an agency that investigates foreign espionage and public corruption. Replace the tax code with a national sales tax. The rich will pay more because they spend more. That would save us tens of billions every year and increase good will among the citizens.
Those who oppose a national sales tax in lieu of national income taxes see this as regressive, arguing it's harder on the lower classes.
The truth is, they won't ever give up their "stick it to the rich" mentality. Even when they can't see the difference between income and wealth. Nor recognize the snake oil salesman that foment this attitude. And today, that includes all of the main stream press. It's even a theme in WSJ articles for crying out loud.
Que the French Revolution.
J.D. TUCCILLE = Nobody.
His only claim to fame is getting a hooker to ride through NY in a body stocking.
Loooooooooooser...............
If I was being prosecuted over a case involving the FBI or the IRS, would use the defense that my prosecution was politically motivated, since I am a conservative/libertarian. Even if the judge were to disallow that defense after being presented to the jury, that's likely enough for the jury to conclude that there is more than a shadow of a doubt that I am guilty.
There are MILLIONS of open jobs. Every one of the 8x,000 people currently employed by the IRS could leave and not be "miserable."
The only catch is that the private sector generally expects results.
The federal cops are relatively new, coming in the 20th century. In the beginning of America when "The American Dream" developed, the law was non-existent for the vast majority. Was this a chaotic time, a wild, anything goes society? No. It was safer, more civil, less controlled by authority. Criminal matters were dealt with by the local community. If you didn't like the justice system, you moved a few miles down the road. As the govt. grew, oppression began, expanding continually. The voluntarists had to keep moving away from govt. to live freely. Why? The govt. paradigm is based on the initiation of force/threats, not reason, rights, choice.
That needs to change or the principle of citizen sovereignty that grew out of our pioneer life will be crushed.
Not according to much of the rest of the world who embrace "leadership" and collective actions over individuality.
We're doomed. Simply by the numbers.
I spent many years in local and County law enforcement, Officers and Deputy Sheriffs have No use for FBI, US Marshals and other federal LE. The are arrogant, self serving and narcissistic Tackleberries. We never trusted them any further than you can throw a railroad locomotive! A large number of State Troopers are cut from the same cloth!
I support the IRS and the FBI one hundred percent.
Taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society. Rather than complaining about them, we should cut ourselves fortunate that we live in a society that HAS taxes, as opposed to many millions of people who live without things like running water, sewage treatment, and other items that we consider necessities. It's no wonder that agents want and need to be armed---there are dangerous scofflaws who are willing to injure and kill these hard working people rather than accept their responsibility to sustain the system from which they profit. I pay MY taxes--everyone else in the United States has a legal and moral obligation to do the same. Those who do not SHOULD receive consequences.
And kudos to the FBI and its agents for doing absolutely essential work, day in and day out, mediocre pay and benefits. They were handed a search warrant for Mar-A-Lago and did their job with thoroughness and professionalism. Their work has added yet more evidence demonstrating that Donald Trump is a criminal. The fact that some of them are receiving threats for doing their job is a national disgrace. Any individual that threatens a law enforcement officer commits a crime...and should be treated accordingly, and face prosecution.
Remember when Speaker Pelosi accused the FBI of being stormtroopers for protecting a federal courthouse?
https://twitter.com/speakerpelosi/status/1284294427654197248
To be fair, the use of unmarked units for anti-riot duties was very concerning from a civil rights perspective. It's good to point out that you need not go too far back to find the FBI doing shady crap against liberals, though such examples abound in the 60s and 70s. They are agents of the state, and thus are deployed at anyone who opposes the state.
Wow... UR an entirely a self-centered F'En idiot...
What you really just said, "My almighty God (i.e. Gov-Guns of enslavement) supplies me with running water, sewage treatment and all my necessities and **only** poking GUNS at those people (i.e. Slavery) could possibly make that happen. After all; "civilized" societies are all about poking GUNS at those people to supply me my necessities..."
Yes, you are the one who wants to be, "the dangerous scofflaws who is willing to injure and kill these hard working people" if they don't provide you 'my necessities' and "sustain the system" of your enslave those people idiocy...
Let me clue you in dumbsh*t... GUNS don't make running water. GUNS don't make sewage treatment. If you want someone/group/business to supply you these things; I'm sure in a *real* civilized society (NOT A CRIMINAL ONE) all you need to do is negotiate a trade.. You don't need GUNS and government is nothing without GUNS. It's only purpose is to ensure Liberty (against those who want to take it ------ HUT HUM; YOU!) and justice in the case someone defrauds you of your negotiations.
Now run off an pester your mommy about getting lunch ready for you and if she doesn't be sure to poke a gun at her too... Since you are so willing to support doing it to everyone else.
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You have no reason to hate or fear the IRS unless you cheat on your taxes. I for one am glad that the IRS staff has finally been beefed up to catch the freeloaders that I am carrying.
Taxation is armed theft. There are **very few** reasonably justified excuses to commit armed theft. And *free* money isn't one of them even though it's our current Nazi-Regime biggest game. If you're going to use words like ?freeloaders? within your context I'd say your about 98% off.
What a joke "The IRS and the FBI aren't bad because they're under the control of the wrong political party,..."
Libertarians should just officially embrace the Communist left. You've done it unofficially.
The IRS and the FBI (and several other gun-carrying agencies) without doubt have the potential to run roughshod over the populace, and the power to do so at least for a while. Until the last decade, for the most part they have refrained from doing so due to the character of the people employed by the agency and the awareness that in the past a large segment of the press would expose them. Both of those restraining influences seem largely to have atrophied. What restraint on agency action then remains?
Jury nullification. For the sake of liberty, if you don't understand or "believe" in it now, at least familiarize yourself with it. It is now the strongest shield the citizen has against government agencies run amok in service of partisan agendas. Understand that you may have to lie about your opinion about jury nullification during voir dire to have the opportunity to save one of your fellow citizens with it! (Therefore, if you have not "aged out" of jury service as I have, do not post about it; I was quite discreet about my opinion on it - in fact, I denied even understanding it - while I remained of age to be called for jury service.)
Sadly, even that is not foolproof. For jury nullification to limit the government's designs on you future, you have to get to court in front of a jury as opposed to being held in no-bail indefinite pre-trial deterntion. Just ask a couple of hundred January sixth detainees how that "jury trial" safety valve is working out for them.
Oh, the press "exposes them" every day. It's really just tittilation though. Who's f'ing who. Things of that nature.
It's really a sign of the society we've become. Celebrity obsessed with complete disregard for what should be more important matters.
They've got us where they want us and plunder with impunity. Because we feel powerless to do anything about it.