Mandatory National Service Is a Morally Bankrupt Idea
Frederick Douglass compared compelled labor to slavery. That objection still stands.

Of all the bad ideas that just won't die, the proposition that it would be swell to force people to work at government jobs they wouldn't choose for themselves is one of the more persistent. It's a scheme that's eternally most popular among those to whom it wouldn't apply and championed by pundits convinced it will inculcate an appreciation for a political system among those from whom it steals time and labor. Even more insulting, the latest such proposal is presented as a cleverly coercive solution to a shortage of public-sector workers.
"New York City is certainly not the only city facing a civic employee shortage. In San Francisco, municipal staffing problems have gotten so bad that workers have taken to the streets demanding that the city fill vacant positions. The city of San Diego, as of this spring, had an eye-popping 16 percent job vacancy rate for its various agencies and services. Washington D.C., which is facing a police shortage, started offering a $20,000 hiring bonus to new officers who join the force," Jay Caspian Kang, an opinion writer for The New York Times, wrote August 4. His solution?
"The White House should increase the size of the AmeriCorps work force from 250,000 to three million (for the rest of this column, I'll refer to it as Mega AmeriCorps), embark on a substantial press tour to promote it, and broadly expand the benefits of enrolling in the program. This would be the first step in eventually calling for a revival of the Universal National Service Act, which would require every American to commit two years of their lives to national service between the years of 18 and 25."
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised that "send out the press gangs" is put forward as a serious means to address shortfalls in hiring cops and sanitation workers. Mandatory national service has become very popular in certain circles, though not usually as an alternative to holding job fairs. Last year, as a solution to political polarization, syndicated columnist Neil Patel proposed conscription "broader than just military service. Other options include the Peace Corps, community service, cleaning up public lands and rebuilding aging infrastructure." David L. Carden, former U.S. ambassador to the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, agreed that "a program of mandatory national service, if designed effectively, would bring together young Americans from across the country and all socioeconomic groups to work on public interest projects and accomplish common goals for the good of the country."
This isn't your grandfather's military draft (though some advocate reviving that, too, in response to recruitment shortfalls). Instead, it's eagerness to force people not just to defend the country, but also into clerical roles, law enforcement, tutoring, and janitorial work on behalf of the state. Advocates for mandatory service seem to think they've stumbled on an innovative way to bring Americans together, but as is so often the case these days, they're dusting off an authoritarian idea better left in the past: corvée. That's "forced labor imposed by a conqueror on the conquered, or by a government on the citizens under its jurisdiction," according to Encyclopedia.com.
Since the use of forced labor is old, so are objections to the practice.
"What is freedom? It is the right to choose one's own employment. Certainly it means that, if it means anything," responded Frederick Douglass, the escaped slave and prominent reformer, to the U.S. Army's Civil War-era policy in Louisiana of extracting one year of forced (though compensated) labor from freedmen on behalf of the federal government. "And when any individual or combination of individuals, undertakes to decide for any man when he shall work, where he shall work, at what he shall work, and for what he shall work, he or they practically reduce him to slavery."
So, advocates of mandatory national service in jobs assigned by the government propose a policy long-ago rejected by one of this country's greatest advocates of liberty as indistinguishable from the slavery he had experienced first-hand. Most recent proposals wave away objections; Kang acknowledges such concerns without ever really addressing them.
"Last year, my colleagues on the editorial board asked if young Americans should be required to do a year of service," he wrote. "The issue, as the editorial board pointed out, is that it's difficult, potentially illegal, and perhaps even morally wrong to compel young Americans into a period of service."
Those are pretty serious barriers to compelling people to work in jobs to which they're assigned by bureaucrats under (never specified) penalty of law. That would seem to necessitate serious consideration of philosophical and practical objections, and to address the likely prospect of widespread defiance of a policy historically linked to slavery. But while Kang mentions that mandatory service might be morally wrong, he then suggests a "real test run for universal national service" without offering a reply. Carden sniffs that "prioritizing the rights of citizenship over its obligations, is one of the main reasons the program is needed in the first place." Patel doesn't even acknowledge moral concerns, insisting that "the main argument against mandatory national service comes from the military" because the all-volunteer force satisfies its needs.
At least the Times editorial board conceded last year that "these are serious arguments, and no doubt one reason mandatory service has been relegated to the fringes of legislative effort."
Unsurprisingly, a national corvée remains most popular with those who will never have to surrender time and effort to the state. Advocates of the idea like to point to a 2017 Gallup poll that found 49 percent of respondents favoring mandatory national service, with 45 percent opposed. But that same poll found "a majority (57 percent) of the group most likely to be affected—those under the age of 30—oppose the idea."
An August 2022 Rasmussen poll asking specifically about restoring military conscription found just 23 percent in favor, with a majority objecting.
Of course, even if conscription of any sort were popular among those on the receiving end, it would still be unacceptable as a violation of individual liberty. Until Kang and other advocates of mandatory national service seriously engage with and answer moral objections to compelled labor, their proposal will remain one whose time has not come and, in a just world, never will.
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How about reducing the size of government and letting those open positions expire as not needed.
Well, some of them are needed. Trash collection is a more obvious example. Doesn't necessarily mean the government needs to do it but somebody does, otherwise we get some pretty adverse public health consequences. And simply letting the positions go unfilled doesn't erase the crony-laws on the books that prevent private institutions from stepping in.
So while I like the general idea, it's more complicated.
Trash could be picked up by a private contractor.
I think the above comment pointed that out.
I was just pondering if there's a legitimate government purpose in waste management at all. You could argue that landfills can be a public nuisance, so local governments may have allowance to zone for such things so your neighbor doesn't decide to turn his backyard into a toxic hazard. And there's also the risk of waste affecting ground water or rivers that no individual has ownership of, so perhaps government has to stand in as a steward.
Still probably better if handled privately and with civil remedies, so that the company can face lawsuits for handling waste improperly. And no unions involved either, so if there's one dumbass who keeps dumping battery acid directly into the lake, he can be quickly and easily fired.
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But the second time, it worked. Not with the original reply, though, which was:
Now, see, that is the kind of "national service" we can all support!
I was just pondering if there's a legitimate government purpose in waste management at all. You could argue that landfills can be a public nuisance, so local governments may have allowance to zone for such things so your neighbor doesn't decide to turn his backyard into a toxic hazard. And there's also the risk of waste affecting ground water or rivers that no individual has ownership of, so perhaps government has to stand in as a steward
It ends up being that way because there's enough common usage of resources going on that a government office inevitably crops up to manage it. Water and sewage treatment, and trash collection are areas where this construct happens organically because it's easier for one entity to serve an entire community and run it under a single standard of operation. With trash and refuse collection, as you point out, it's to ensure your lazy-ass neighbor doesn't end up making his backyard a breeding ground for vermin who spread disease and destroy structures, and don't give a shit about property lines.
Trash hauling where I live is a personal matter. You do it, or you pay someone to do it.
This seems to work fine. There are no piles of trash by the side of the road, I'm not aware of any piles of trash in my neighbor's yards any worse than mine own compost heap and pile of misc. gardening castoffs that I dig into every now and then cause "hey, I know just what I can use, I'm glad I didn't take that to the
dumptransfer station!"I suspect many other non-professional government make-work jobs could be handled similarly. Yes, the town clerk and tax assessor need to be paid (and know what they are doing), and a few others, but not trash pickup.
Ours is private and paid for from our HOA dues
That's great. But that obviously requires a community where everybody has some sense of ethics and responsibility. My experience with people suggests we can't count on that (or we could even confidently bet against it in some contexts).
If property taxes are eliminated, as they should be, there would be no need for a tax assessor's office.
Most of the cited examples were agents to verify bureaucracy not for services. The cop shortage is due to politics.
1. Why are you bringing up 'some of them are needed' - the suggestion was not to close it all down.
2. Trash collection is not a government position. Its not even a government function in most places. At best you can say the government *takes the power* to collectively bargain with a private company to collect *some* trash (usually residential) within its jurisdiction. Where I live, trash is contracted with directly by the property owner and even in the nearby town, trash collection for businesses is contracted by the business and not through the city. And that's not counting supplemental services like roll-off dumpsters for construction.
Trash in the US is collected by private companies. It’s a system that is corrupt as hell and involves governments granted private monopolies, but it is private.
Since all governments, big and small, local and federal, come with a moral blank check, the permission to do what is denied a citizen, e.g., initiate force, threaten, the authority to coerce is tantamount to tyranny, however small or desired by a majority.
Downsizing tyranny is impossible if tried by the victim. Success will be temporary because tyrants fight back continually, while we have to work to support them financially.
The only strategy that will ensure freedom is to focus on the root of the source of tyranny, i.e., faith in violence over reason. This is a superstition born ages ago, passed down by indoctrination, not discovered by each new generation. It defies common sense, and youth rebels against it. The rebellions fail due for lack of an ethical philosophy to replace the use of force. Why? Force is conflated with order. But that is a lie. Force creates chaos, e.g., social decay.
Jay Caspian Kang, an opinion writer for The New York Times, wrote August 4. His solution?
"The White House should increase the size of the AmeriCorps work force from 250,000 to three million (for the rest of this column, I'll refer to it as Mega AmeriCorps), embark on a substantial press tour to promote it, and broadly expand the benefits of enrolling in the program. This would be the first step in eventually calling for a revival of the Universal National Service Act, which would require every American to commit two years of their lives to national service between the years of 18 and 25."
What the Hell does he think he is, a Kang 'n' sheit?
Fuck Off, Kang! And Fuck Off to all Slavers!
Sure, let’s do it! Mandatory labor for the government.
All we need to do is repeal the 13th Amendment. I’m sure there’s broad support for that. Should be easy.
Aw, come on, Thinking Mind. It is not slavery, slavery. It is just what you owe to your lords in the government class.
What part of the dozen or so constitutional obligations of government re 'militia' make you believe that the 13th amendment repealed them all?
Reality is that government providing the OPTION to either render service in labor (as part of militia organizing to perform that govtl function) and/or in taxes results in an INCREASE in citizen freedom. Precisely because the given function morphs from mandatory one-way to option.
Defining a function of government as purely mandatory to be provided for via taxes is a way of corrupting government and eliminating any alternative accountability. The reason the US quickly morphed from a 'watchman' state (provided by militia) to a 'police' state (with professionals paid via taxes) is because rich people didn't want poor neighborhoods 'watched'. They wanted rich neighborhoods 'policed'. That was purely a policy preference by them. But redefining how government performs its functions makes it impossible to even see anything as a mere policy preference.
Carden sniffs that "prioritizing the rights of citizenship over its obligations, is one of the main reasons the program is needed in the first place."
"Stop Sniffing!"
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Better idea; democrats learn how to govern instead of rule, and create cities where people actually want to live.
Definitely, bring back slavery . Anything that will increase the fortunes of Mr. Koch.
(Filling in for OBL)
Unironically: Fuck off, slavers!
I'm not for this in it's base idea but if you really are going to try to write off student loans then this seems like a fair trade.
Conscript the journalists first. If they think it's a good idea, let them demonstrate how it is.
How about we simplify all taxation to a single head tax, payable in cash ($13k per person to match current revenue, $18k per person to fund proposed spending), or in labor. That should fill in the manpower gaps and bring us together!
A day-tax is how it would work. 15 days worth of work - payable in taxes or labor.
Conservatives who favor this need to think about what National Service would be like under a Harris administration. And Progressives need to think same about under another OMB administration. Tending to the every need of illegal immigrants?
Cleaning up the streets after the homeless?
You don't have to think about it. Until classes were shut down because of COVID, our School District had a mandatory requirement of 80 hours of voluntary service in order to graduate. Where students volunteered their time had to be approved by the District. Students were allowed to volunteer time for helping Democrats campaign, but, every request to do the same for Republicans was denied.
Cunts.
Updating serfdom is progressive now, I guess.
Always has been
I agree with the idea that mandatory national "service" is repulsive and contemptible. But, if you're going to institute such a policy (you shouldn't) expanding it beyond military service only compounds the problem. I mean, at least a military can be justified as the basic function of the state. There's something a little unseemly about asking another man (even a volunteer) to fight and die on your behalf when you're not willing to bear that burden yourself. On the other hand, the "social service" schemes have direct and observable benefits to specific members of the public. In that regard, they much more closely resemble a direct wealth transfer, consisting of enslaving your fellow citizens to provide bribes. And, needless to say, any such scheme of unpaid, coerced, labor is only ever going to be an invitation to corruption, with those in power channeling that unpaid labor to their favored political ends ("So, Bobby, what will your service be? Do you want to dig ditches or canvas support for the environmental bill?")
The only reason the concept of mandatory national service even came in to the national conversation is because the 1960s obliterated the post-WW2 civic consensus, and undermined the dominant Americanist culture that had served as a national binding agent that held the US together through several decades of labor wars in the progressive era, two World Wars, and a Depression. It's being proposed because the US is so atomized now that the policy wonks are grasping for any kind of program that might rebuild that.
I actually have no problem with programs like a CCC or a WPA provided they're producing something of substance (fuck the Federal Theatre Project, for example, which was just a haven for commies), but these were voluntary programs. Making them mandatory would just garner further resentment.
Those programs were as voluntary as "take this job or starve".
Doesn't mean they didn't actually have a choice.
at least a military can be justified as the basic function of the state
The state's duty is to secure the people's liberty. This can't be done by enslaving the people.
-jcr
As long as the service requires physical fitness components (to save future healthcare costs, of course), and mandatory learning proper use of English (to save future costs of multi-lingual public documents), and has a strict no drugs policy (to save future rehab costs), and prohibits discussion of any left wing thought (to save current sanity), and the draft starts with the democrat party membership rolls, it sounds great.
(full disclosure: I don't know if this is sarcasm or not, it's hard to tell these days, even for what I post)
You know who else required 2 years of national service after high school?
Lee Kuan Yew?
-jcr
1. We have enough problems with bad/corrupt cops now. What do you think happens when they start drafting people to be cops who don't want to be cops?
2. If they pass this, it should get buried in 13th amendment challenges.
As I mentioned when President Choom's scumbag minion Rahm Emanuel was pushing this evil notion some years back, the people are not the property of the ruling class. Whenever anyone says this is a good idea, tear them a new asshole as loudly and vehemently as you can.
Slavers can fuck right off.
-jcr
as i've said before, based on how much of my income from working gets siphoned off my the government, i already spent about 1/3 of my time in 'national service'
The only thing I know of that the USA's had that was close to corvée was road building and maintenance by adjacent land holders, who were required to supply such services (usually the farmers' hired hands) as needed. I suppose that persists in the form of sidewalk clearance and maintenance.
But many of the long distance routes were built by turnpike companies, and some by voluntary cooperatives.
While we're considering National Service, perhaps we should also consider some of the other things that are required in the name of the "greater good."
My city requires me to shovel snow from the city's sidewalk every year.
The state requires all children to attend school.
I had to register for the draft until I was in my 30s...Even though I had served 6 years in the military. (Yeah, I know that the constitution let's Congress raise a military--That doesn't make it either morally right or wrong).
It works in other countries - Iceland, for example.
We already perform mandatory public service; it's called taxation, and it eats a lot more than two years' worth of a worker's labor.
If an 18-year old wants to become a plumber or open a (tax paying) private business, why should they be shunted into so government make-work program because someone who will never have to be part of that program says so? Indistinguishable from slavery. Slaves were “paid” with room and board. I doubt they felt the compensation commiserate with the service.
I think national service is great idea: how better to teach kids about the futility of government programs and instill a lifelong resentment for government in them?
If what you want done is so unpleasant to do, or laborious that you can't afford to hire someone EVEN THOUGH YOU PRINT MONEY, maybe you shouldn't do it.