Drop the Useless Mask Mandates and Leave Us Alone
Revived mandates remind everyone that governments have done far more harm than good in the pandemic.

The last couple of years have been a revelation when it comes to public health measures for battling COVID-19 and whatever bugs come next. We've seen that masks offer little protection unless they're the uncomfortable medical variety, states that locked down hardest took nasty economic hits in return for little if any health benefit, and kids isolated by decree from their peers suffer mental health issues.
But don't tell the politicians—they want more!
Across the country, government officials seem eager to revive mask mandates and, perhaps, other artifacts of pandemic policy, if only as reminders of the high-tide mark of their emergency authority.
"If we do start seeing an uptick, particularly of hospitalizations, we may need to revert back to being more careful and having more utilizations of masks indoors," Anthony Fauci, chief medical adviser to the White House, taunted a COVID-weary nation on ABC News earlier this week.
Sure enough, within days the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) extended the mask mandate for federally regulated travel; Philadelphia's city government did the same for indoor spaces. (Many colleges and universities followed suit.) Philadelphia officials offer no specifics about acceptable masks, but do say that restaurant patrons only have to wear them "while not seated and eating or drinking." For its part, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), which enforces the CDC mandate, allows that "masks can be either manufactured or homemade and should be a solid piece of material without slits, exhalation valves, or punctures." It's hard to see what good masks are supposed to do if they're crumpled up in pockets while people talk and laugh or, for that matter, if they're worn but made of common fabric.
"Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations," CNN medical analyst Leana Wen told viewers in December 2021. The CDC also largely conceded the point, admitting in January that "loosely woven cloth products provide the least protection." Fitted surgical masks and K95 masks are better and "well-fitting NIOSH-approved respirators (including N95s) offer the highest level of protection." But CDC Director Rochelle Walensky advises against N95s because "they're very hard to breathe in when you wear them properly."
That leaves much of the general public performatively donning t-shirt fabric over their noses and mouths in their airplane seats and for short strolls between restaurant entrances and tables. That'll show that nasty virus!
Not that face masks make up the entirety of pandemic theater. Political figures ordered businesses and schools closed (while exempting themselves from inconvenient rules), restricted travel, and savaged anybody who objected. But the evidence suggests these authoritarian measures impose high costs in return for little benefit. A new working paper covering state-level pandemic policy published by the National Bureau of Economic Research finds that closing businesses and schools increased unemployment and reduced GDP without reducing deaths from COVID-19.
"The correlation between health and economy scores is essentially zero, which suggests that states that withdrew the most from economic activity did not significantly improve health by doing so," wrote authors Casey Mulligan, a University of Chicago economist, and Stephen Moore and Phil Kerpen of the Committee to Unleash Prosperity. (Hawaii is an exception, suggesting to the authors "that island locations can, by sustaining significant economic losses, reduce mortality for a year or more.")
The study largely replicated findings in an earlier paper by Jonas Herby, Lars Jonung, and Steve H. Hanke that lockdowns in Europe and the United States were ineffective.
What Mulligan, Moore, and Kerpen did find is that "school closures may ultimately prove to be the most costly policy decision of the pandemic era in both economic and mortality terms." The authors correlated interrupted education with reduced lifetime earnings and shortened lifespan. But they might also have added that disrupting learning and social interaction for kids drove many of them nuts.
"Depression and suicide concerns have increased during the pandemic, especially among female adolescents," according to a September 2021 paper by Stephanie L. Mayne and associated authors published in Pediatrics.
"Disruptions and consequences related to the COVID-19 pandemic, including school closures, social isolation, family economic hardship, family loss or illness, and reduced access to health care, raise concerns about their effects on the mental health and well-being of youths," agreed a CDC survey of teens conducted in spring 2021. "Approximately one in three high school students experienced poor mental health (most of the time or always) during the COVID-19 pandemic (37.1%) and during the past 30 days (31.1%)"
Interestingly enough (and bringing us full circle), one of the better ways to mess kids up is by requiring them to wear face masks. Psychologists find that they obscure human expressions and our ability to read other people's mood and intent.
"A mask obstructing a face limits the ability of people of all ages to infer emotions expressed by facial features, but the difficulties associated with the mask's use are significantly pronounced in children aged between 3 and 5 years old," reported Monica Gori, Lucia Schiatti, and Maria Bianca Amadeo last May in Frontiers in Psychology. "These findings are of essential importance, as they suggest that we live in a time that may potentially affect the development of social and emotion reasoning, and young children's future social abilities should be monitored to assess the true impact of the use of masks."
"Wearing face masks decreases facial expression recognition, confidence in expression identification, as well as the perception of intensity for all expressions," concurred Farid Pazhoohi, Leilani Forby, and Alan Kingstone last September in PLOS One. Especially affected are people who score high for autism.
And government officials want us wearing masks again? As infuriating as that is, it's also a warning that the political class has learned nothing. If the powers-that-be are willing to revive useless and psychologically damaging mask requirements, they may well be poised to again close schools, shutter businesses, disrupt travel, and otherwise meddle in our lives with measures that do little if any good, but inflict measurable harm.
If politicians insist on retaining tokens of their elevated status during the pandemic, maybe we could instead buy them some "I Got Vaccinated" stickers that they can keep in trophy cases to admire while the rest of us get on with our lives.
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"governments have done far more harm than good in the pandemic"
Well, that's true of Drumpf's government. And #DeathSantis in Florida.
For effective pandemic leadership you need to look to the Democratic Party. New York's Andrew Cuomo literally wrote the book on this stuff. And Joe Biden has shut down the virus like he promised.
#DefendEstablishmentDemocratsAtAllCosts
And Joe Biden has shut down the virus like he promised.
And it only took him 100 days. A true miracle worker.
The fatality rate from COVID is similar to the flu. The Government response killed Americans on an exponential scale, not the virus. Dr John Ioannidis, from Stanford University, stated the infection-fatality rate could be as low as 0.05 per cent. The seasonal flu has an IFR 0.1 per cent.
Infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data
- John P A Ioannidis
Bulletin for WHO
I included 61 studies (74 estimates) and eight preliminary national estimates. Seroprevalence estimates ranged from 0.02% to 53.40%. Infection fatality rates ranged from 0.00% to 1.63%, corrected values from 0.00% to 1.54%. Across 51 locations, the median COVID-19 infection fatality rate was 0.27% (corrected 0.23%): the rate was 0.09% in locations with COVID-19 population mortality rates less than the global average ( 500 COVID-19 deaths/million people. In people younger than 70 years, infection fatality rates ranged from 0.00% to 0.31% with crude and corrected medians of 0.05%.
Conclusion: The infection fatality rate of COVID-19 can vary substantially across different locations and this may reflect differences in population age structure and case-mix of infected and deceased patients and other factors. The inferred infection fatality rates tended to be much lower than estimates made earlier in the pandemic.
Bull World Health Organ. 2021 Jan 1; 99(1): 19–33F.
Published online 2020 Oct 14. doi: 10.2471/BLT.20.265892
These conclusions are not surprising. Centrally planned reactions have a long history of leading directly to the deaths they are implemented to prevent. The Soviets, the Chinese, and the NorKs collectively starved over 100 million of their own citizens to death with their collective farming efforts.
Right now in China, people are collectively dying who otherwise wouldn't if they were free to do what was best for them individually.
The proper governmental response to SARS-CoV 2 would have been a campaign to educate citizens on the best way to protect themselves. Period. New York and New Jersey instead mandated specific actions to protect the most vulnerable that led directly to their deaths.
In defense of socialism/collectivism, a lot of the Chinese dead were on purpose as Mao punished populations not sufficiently supportive of his revolution.
So did Stalin and Kim. It is certainly much cheaper to starve people to death, and at that point, if they resist, they are that much weaker. As a bonus, those that survive feel beholden to those who provided them food.
In defense of socialism/collectivism
In defense of its efficiency as a machine of mass murder?
Note who started this thread and take all statements in the appropriate vein.
^THIS EXACTLY.. Well Said +10000000000000.
Obviously the IFR for COVID is much greater than 0.05%.
Around 980k Americans have died from COVID-19. Even if every single American was infected with COVID that's an IFR of around 0.3% (980k/330M )
Do a simple back-of-the envelope sanity check when looking at statistics and numbers.
A lot of those deaths were with, not of. I want to wait for a thorough accounting of those numbers, which are already being revised, before drawing any conclusions from them.
I think you're probably right about the number being inflated due to people dying WITH COVID getting counted as people dying FROM COVID.
Still, 0.05% IFR seems like an awfully low figure to me when the reported number of COVID deaths / total US population is 0.3%.
The covid death rate by population virtually mirrors the standard population death rate prior to 2019.
What happened to the flu that year?
The only thing you can honestly measure is the excess number of pneumonia deaths among those who were SARS-CoV 2 positive. Excess deaths can easily be attributable to maladies like heart disease and stroke that are very responsive to quick treatment, but due to lockdowns or the (justifiable) fear of contracting COVID in a hospital went untreated until it was too late.
You can't honestly attribute a COVID death to someone with advanced diabetes or heart disease that could just as easily have been killed from the strain on the system brought on by a bad cold or the flu. I don't believe that those deaths were counted as cold or flu deaths prior to the bounty being offered for COVID deaths.
You're right.
Except, maybe not. Because OG or Alpha covid is not a guarantee of immunity from GETTING Omicron covid. So many people have gotten the 'rona more than once. Not sure about Delta, or when these numbers came from. And there are a lot of confounding issues.
But the key point you're missing and the whole point of the survey is:
The infection fatality rate of COVID-19 can vary substantially across different locations
which means worldwide. So you'd have to apply your smell test to worldwide data.
I suggest OP should post a link to the article where he got this so we can actually look at it rather than just trust what's posted and guess.
From what I understand natural immunity usually works at least pretty well - probably better than artificial immunity so I suspect that the number of people who died from getting COVID a 2nd,3rd,etc time is pretty low.
I'm guessing US mortality rate is influenced by the high obesity rate here and the fact that we've got really good (albeit expensive) care available that's kept a higher percentage of the at risk population alive long enough to catch COVID than in some other countries.
Like you say, a link to the article would be helpful.
Metabolic health seems to be a huge factor in Covid deaths.
Should have been telling people to get outside and eat well and take vitamin D and exercise instead of stay at home and eat takeout and watch Netflix and drink.
The vast majority of people who died with COVID would simply have not been alive during the Spanish flu epidemic. Life expectancy was 25 years lower. Insulin was not synthesized until the '20s. Most people died of their first heart attack.
Spanish flu was exponentially more deadly than COVID regardless of how much Joe Friday and his ilk lie about it. It killed otherwise healthy people; young and old alike. Treating COVID as the modern incarnation of a existential threat like Spanish flu was moronic after the evidence available in May of 2020.
I was going to post this upthread, but see you beat me to it.
Locally, the #1 comorbidity wasn't obesity, it was high blood pressure. #2 coronary disease, and on through diabetes and alzheimers/dementia. many are things younger elderly might get as metabolic syndromic issues, but that even folks who were healthy most of their lives increasingly suffer from at 80.
Lots of these people have had a much better retirement aged life due to modern medicine. They've lived longer and been able to manage things that would have killed them at the turn of the 20th century.
And for justabill, it isn't about natural immunity vs vaccine any more. I hope I didn't imply that. Omicron evades prior immunity and is ridiculously contagious. But prior immunity really does decrease bad outcomes. Vaccinated are easy to count from records, so comparing vaxxed to unvaxxed is a good club for beating out some quick comparative numbers. Basically easy data acquisition, but ignoring previous exposure is a major failing, especially now that omicron has hit SOOOOOOO many people. It's like getting booster shot, even if you were previously exposed or had a vaccine in 2021 you're likely even better protected if your immune system is healthy.
Meaning, societally, I'd expect even with ba2 being stupid infective and then some, IFR right now is orders of magnitude lower than Alpha era. Maybe that study from last summer is completely out of date now. I'd love to see an update.
So you're saying stop comparing alphas and oranges or something like that.
Good point about IFR for newer variants which all seem to be significantly more contagious and less deadly than Alpha.
In other words, COVID is now basically another flu.
The point you should take from that is that the next pandemic might not be as benign as you apparently feel Covid was.
Why should anyone expect conservative Americans to be any more conscientious of hygiene, or less prone to conspiracy theories, during that one?
So, they should have told people how to protect themselves from Covid-19? Then they would have not been able to line their pockets with vaccine pay-offs.
UTexas study published Nov '21 posits that vaccines killed more seniors than did Covid. Posits that vaccines are more dangerous to kids than is Covid.
I posit that government is more dangerous to all of us than is Covid.
Don't forget Cuomo's 'mini-me' - Phailing Phil Murphy, governor of the People's Republic of NJ. Phailing Phil gives Cuomo a run for his money on killing elderly nursing home patients, by the numbers.
OTOH, there ain't much spittin tobaccy, so inflation is supposedly non-existent. Somehow, the wingnuts have infiltrated every grocery store in South Jersey with higher food prices.
What is going on, OBL? Inquiring minds want to know.
What. If the virus is shut down, then what is the need for the newly reinstated mask mandates? Compare Florida and New York and California on the outcomes and tell us again whose policies were best.
He sure has. Kinda like the Chinese have. Pure genius. It’s almost like he had the formula.
Whatever, r-type c*nt.
I would take the time to tell you in great detail how wrong you are, but "you cannot reason with leftists and you cannot appeal to their nonexistent or ill-formed consciences. You have to outspend them and defund them." [ https://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/maverick_philosopher/2022/04/the-bootless-max-boot.html ]
Stop wasting our time with your wasted mind, smug little r-type. Slink away.
PS DeSantis for President!
As infuriating as that is, it's also a warning that the political class has learned nothing.
They've learned alright. They've learned that they can get away with anything.
Visible signs of compliance warm their hearts. That the compliance is useless is even better.
That's probably the worst part. What the fuck is wrong with people? I really thought people would have decided they were done with all the bullshit in summer of 2020 sometime.
I guess people uncritically believe what they are told. Distrust of authority used to be an American virtue.
Hm. Could you explain your shift in attitude from the early stages of "you're killing grandma" hyperbolic blue mask frenzy to your new redneck alter ego?
Because I never heard an apology along the way, Dr. Jekyll.
I'm not going to apologize for things I never said or that were interpreted incorrectly by stupid/dishonest people (JesseAz).
You can keep denying what you've said. I'll keep posting it.
https://reason.com/2021/08/30/alex-berenson-twitter-ban-vaccine-covid/?comments=true#comment-9074731
For example when we were told to wear masks, a common strawman in the comments was that masks don't stop individual viruses which makes them useless. I clarified by saying that's not the purpose, the purpose is to stop little saliva drops that could contain the virus. The response was "YOU WANT EVERYONE TO WEAR MASKS YOU VOTED FOR BIDEN AAUUUGGHH!"
So no, I'm not going to apologize for things that I never said or were intentionally interpreted incorrectly by stupid and dishonest assholes.
Yes. You attacked those you now claim you agree with using false strawman and hyperbolic comments. You constantly defended Mike and brandy request everyone wear masks while attacking those espousing free choice. See link above you dishonest shit.
You can't walk back or justify your past comments by pretending your motivations are different now.
A-E-R-O-S-O-L-S.
Only been saying it for two years now. And I love how you ignore links to your own past statements.
For someone who defended Trump all the time against people who took him literally when he was obviously not serious, you sure do a good job of doing what you defended against.
Cite?
I defended Trump against people taking him literally when Trump was obviously not being serious?
I... Uh... I don't know quite where you intended to go with that, but that does sound like something I'd do, yes.
Are you getting Schnappy with me?
Turns out that masks can help prevent symptomatic spread, because that is when people are coughing, etc., but they mostly self quarantine. The problem is that most spread is either asymptomatic or presymptomatic (before you are coughing), and instead of transmission by droplets (which decent masks can reduce) transmits is as an aerosol (which the masks don’t really hinder, due to their whole sizes being significantly larger that the virons in the aerosol). Can’t count the number of peer review “studies” my PhD kid sent me to justify masking - and they all started off assuming transmission by droplets.
Worse - there is no rational reason to mandate masking of kids. They aren’t going to die from the virus, often don’t even show symptoms, and just don’t pass it on to vulnerable populations. From Day 1, they should have just let them get the virus, get over it, and go on with their lives - maskless and unvaccinated (both are effectively child abuse).
Florida had the most reasonable strategy; isolate the at-risk while searching for effective treatments and letting life go on for those not at serious risk.
Meanwhile, the child abuse continues in California.
I clarified by saying that's not the purpose, the purpose is to stop little saliva drops that could contain the virus.
Then why do we have to cover our noses? How does that “protect others”?
But, the masks (at best) don't work, and at worst they're extremely harmful, especially psychologically. This is now long proven be fact.
So, will you recant and say that you were wrong to believe in mask mandates in the first place? [ https://www.wmbriggs.com/post/35227/ ]
*proven to be fact
I expect large swathes of grey in response to that.
Because you mute people who point out you're a drunk, lying leftist weasel.
Except that you cannot find a single statement of mine in support of the left. Not a one. No one can, because such statements don't exist. The only possible way you could infer that I'm a leftist is my disdain for Trump and Trumpistas. But that's like saying I must drive a Prius because I don't drive a big truck. It's stupid and dishonest. In other words, exactly what I would expect.
You call everyone who disdains the left a trump cultist. You do so in this very post in fact.
I mute people who reply to my comments with hostile, histrionic hissy fits. Yes. I certainly do. And I hope they get psychiatric help.
SHOW US THE LIST!
You mean when you see them doing the same things you do? Kind of hypocritical.
The Delta variant kept people rightfully cautious, but the Omicron variant should have been shrugged off. People were just too conditioned by then to breathe freely and live without fear again.
"Approximately one in three high school students experienced poor mental health (most of the time or always) during the COVID-19 pandemic (37.1%) and during the past 30 days (31.1%)"
Meaningless statistics without the same statistics from before covid.
Before the Communist Chinese Virus, the number was 100%.
I remember high school. Mental health wasn't ever all that good.
Acne and puberty together. How did qe manage to survive?
Nobody did.
I'm pretty sure we all died at least a few times already, statistically speaking.
Le petite morte.
I should be so lucky.
From https://static1.squarespace.com/static/61e5afd7a33d334ec9f84595/t/62115f823054865c6d5497a3/1645305731693/Urgency+of+Normal+Toolkit.pdf
A global analysis of 29 studies found that depressive and anxiety symptoms doubled during the pandemic, with 25% of youth experiencing depressive symptoms and 20% experiencing anxiety symptoms.13
• A study of eating disorder hospitalizations found a 120% increase.14
• According to national CDC surveillance data, emergency department visits for suspected suicide attempts in adolescent girls increased 51% in early 2021.15
• In December, the Surgeon General issued a public health advisory highlighting how the pandemic has exacerbated the unprecedented stresses young people already faced.16
13https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2782796
14https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/148/4/e2021052201/179731/Medical-Admissions-Among-Adolescents-With-Eating
15https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm
16https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-youth-mental-health-advisory.pdf
A global analysis of 29 studies found that depressive and anxiety symptoms doubled during the
pandemiclockdownsFixed! Amazing how taking kids away from their friends and telling them they are likely to murder grandma will make them sad.
Replace "lockdowns" with "Panic" and you've truly fixed something.
Approximately one in three high school students experienced poor mental health
Have these idiots ever been to a high school? One in three high school students have poor mental health on any particular day.
A year ago: take two jabs and you will not carry the virus or get sick.
Today: get a booster every four months and you might get and transmit the virus anyway.
The Covidians remain insistent that the vax and the vax alone is the path to salvation. The masks are a symbol of the religion and the political and public health class is their infallible priesthood. There is no argument to be had with these people and no sense in trying to have one. They have happily donned the brown shirts - they are fine with people losing their jobs and otherwise being barred from benign acts of daily life for non-compliance. Once you have seen that in someone, there is no going back to the "before times."
The chief difference between Branch Davidians and Branch Covidians: Branch Davidians only managed to kill a couple dozen people in Waco, and had little effect on the American economy. Branch Covidians, OTOH, have managed to compromise our liberty (1A, 2A, 4A, 5A, 6A) and devastated America's economy (and people) with lockdowns.
Who was worse here?
You forgot 9A & 10A
Are you sure the Davidians were the ones killing people, because I recall these FBI folks on the scene? Seems the big difference was that the Davidians were not trying to impose anything on the rest of us, the opposite of the Covidians.
I thought it was the ATF that filled up the building with flammable gas before setting it on fire, knowing there were women and children inside.
Yeah, it was definitely the Feds responsible for the majority of the deaths. One could 'victim-blame' and say that the Branch Davidians brought it about, but I suspect that better negotiation techniques would have produced a peaceful ending. Or use of chemical agents to knock them all out instead of CS, much like Alfa spetznatz used to, but perhaps with killing everybody in the process.
4 months? The first booster was only good for 12 weeks. The second one is down to about 4 weeks. Because they're not "boosting" anything that works, they're just kicking your immune system awake to fight general threats.
Such breathless hyperbole. Should we embrace the right's religion as we respond to a pandemic? Will your Jesus keep you from infecting others? Or is it, really, that you're hoping to hurry along the end days?
If your floor for government control is any action that could slightly raise the risk of a negative effect on someone else, may as well give up all liberty.
And arrest and quarantine infants now.
It has nothing to do with religion. The vaxxed, Right and Left, get infection and spread infection. In spite of intentional efforts to attribute spread to unvaxxed, attempts at "contact tracing" are known to be flawed as well as biased.
Follow the money.
You remember that ONE study in Bangladesh showing a slight efficacy for masking?
It didn't hold up too well under scrutiny.
Steve Kirsch's Substack:
/p/masks-fail-their-latest-test?
Because I still can't post links. Wtf.
Substack links are all banned now. I'm sure it's just a bug.
Feature?
Probably to stop people promoting personal substacks here. If only they could do the same for shoprite bots or the ones advertising tranny milfs in the EU.
Now they need to do twitter... but they won't do it on the articles because then they'd never be able to do their lazy-ass quick-hit pretend journalism by just posting links to the twitters.
Verified it won't get past filter.
Go straight to hell JD. Public transportation is done in close quarters and with fools like most of the commenters here, too dumb to get vaccinated. When the latest variant flattens - it's surging - and no new ones appear in numbers, sure, end it then. It's too early and you guys have been wrong on Covid from day one. That has been proven by the fact that in red and blue states both, new cases of Covid, hospitalizations, and deaths are led by the unvaccinated.
That has been proven by the fact that in red and blue states both, new cases of Covid, hospitalizations, and deaths are led by the unvaccinated.
Shouldn't that make you happy? Give these guys a Darwin award.
I think Joe Friday just spews feelings and tries to pass them as facts. Pretty much worthless as a person, at least Hank presents a challenge to decipher what he's saying.
I think Joe Friday just spews feelings and tries to pass them as facts.
That's pretty normal for progressives.
Pretty much worthless as a person, at least Hank presents a challenge to decipher what he's saying.
Maybe he can learn to think instead of feel. I'm not totally hopeless.
hopelesswithout hopeNo. You are hopeless.
Lockdowns/stay at home orders are useless at best: not wrong
The vaccine doesn't work to stop transmission or infection: not wrong
Masks are mostly theater and don't really work in the real world: not wrong
Covid is not significantly more deadly than a bad flu for most people: not wrong
Deaths with covid were largely portrayed as deaths from covid: not wrong
There is reason to believe the virus escaped from a lab in China: not wrong.
The vaccine designed for the ancestral variant shaved off the worsts aspects of the disease when you eventually caught it, which is why we need to repeatedly boost with the ancestral variant for variants evolved two, three, four steps away from the original variant: not wrong.
COVID was far more deadly than flu. Stop with the denial shit. It doesn't all of a sudden make you right just because 10,000 mutations of the virus ultimately created a strain that is both highly infectious with low virulence. The US had about 23% excess deaths in 2020 (and in 2021 in states with vaccine resistance and low vax rates)
COVID was far more deadly than the flu for the elderly and those with comorbidities. But a lot of the excess deaths were from the lockdowns (crime, depression, fear of going to the hospital or seeking needed medical care, car accidents, etc.)
One of those comorbidities is obesity. 35% of Americans are obese with another 40% overweight. And many of them don't think they are obese because everyone around them is obese. That's a much larger % of the population than the elderly
Are you saying getting some exercise in the sun would have saved lives from Covid, rather than being locked down at home?
I have called for better preventive medicine in the US for decades. There are reasons we don't do that here. Even more reasons why suddenly starting that in March 2020 for a pandemic would fail - badly.
Is that a yes or a no?
For most people it really isn't. Flu is bad. It kills lots of people. Comparison to the flu isn't saying it's nothing or denying that it was serious for many people. But it's not something that most people should have radically altered their lives to avoid any more than they do the flu.
The worst flu year kills 60000 to 80000. COVID was 10x that in 2020 and lower in 2021only because of the vaccine.
Quit with the fucking denialism. It is just stuck on stupid.
We're talking about different things. Total dead vs. risk to an individual who catches it.
Oh. The Spanish flu didn't happen?
If we counted everybody who died with a tiny piece of flu virus in them, we'd get to about 300,000/year before we even get to people that the flu killed.
COVID was 10x that in 2020
Prior to 2020 deaths from heart disease, diabetes, etc., when the system was additionally strained by a cold or the flu were not recorded as deaths from the cold or the flu. The CARES act authorized an additional 20% payment from Medicare with a COVID diagnosis.
Quit with the fucking denialism. It is just stuck on stupid.
You really should...
It doesn't matter if those statements are WRONG or not.
Those statements are MISINFORMATION and must not be said.
Joe, all your ships already left port. Florida is the template you want to use, not New York.
There are multiple, accredited and peer-reviewed publications stating that masks, lockdowns and mitigation measures failed on every available metric.
I just linked a public debate on the only RCT study to show mask efficacy and why it's junk science literally one comment up.
I've been linking articles and studies (yesterday?) on the growing negative vaccine efficacy in more rigourously jabbed UK, Israel and Canada where ~90% of those hospitalized are fully boosted. You're about 4x more likely to get the new (continually less dangerous) variants vs unvaccinated. I've been talking about Antibody Dependent Enhancement for two years now.
Salted, I looked at your link. The lead researcher in it doesn't say "masks fail" he says they are not perfect and says he wears an N95. Opposition to measures like masks and vaccines by people here is largely based on the infantile expectation that if something isn't perfect and "stops" covid, it's not good enough, has "failed", and should be abandoned. That's a simple logical fallacy, not a thought out policy.
My link was the publicly debated deconstruction of the validity of the Bangladesh study, the last remaining justification for the CDC's public masking.
Opposition has been, and has been repeatedly validated by actual science, that masks are of no benefit against an aerosol-borne virus and imposing them to make panic-prone Patty feel better has caused great harm and suffering to people. Moreover, the order itself in unbefitting a free nation.
Against the totalitarianism of Karens like yourself.
That has been proven by the fact that in red and blue states both, new cases of Covid, hospitalizations, and deaths are led by the unvaccinated.
Proven where? And what is considered vaccinated these days? One shot? Two shots? Two shots but only one booster?
Do share those stats with us Mr. Friday.
Oh, and public transport is down because more people and businesses have adopted the hybrid model of working from home.
Outlaw, look it up anywhere.
Because less people were using public transportation due to Covid - and now going up again - is not a rational reason to abandon safety efforts
The NBER analysis shows the opposite - you guys have been wrong from day one. The mandates did little to prevent COVID deaths but did a lot of economic harm and a lot of harm to child development and education. And the red states had pretty much the same COVID mortality as the blue but with much disruption to peoples' lives.
IMO I agree with your inference that the 2 major vaccines are safe and effective. But unless you believe in totalitarian government everyone have the freedom to make their own choice regarding whether or not to take the vaccines.
stop using the leftist term "vaccine" to describe the covid injections. there is no logical, reasoned argument that these drugs are vaccines. they do not function as a vaccine have never have. they're simply placebo drug injections.
Splitting hairs over terminology isn't going to change anyone's mind.
But language is important. It is not a vaccine, it is a gene therapy. Calling it a vaccine borrows on decades of trust in medicine for a product that is entirely new and different.
words matter and their meaning matters. it's not splitting hairs at all. the left does this all the time when they coopt language and change the meaning of words to further their narrative. they did it with the word "vaccine". the cdc changed the meaning because their drugs were obviously not vaccines by any definition. by using the term "vaccine" you're just feeding the leftist narrative. and it's dishonest because the drugs are not vaccines -- you're really telling a lie.
justabill, your kids are already a subject of a public health mandate to get vaccinated before attending school and so were you. This is established legal practice - SC in `1905 - and Washington enforced one on his troops.
In almost all cases, those subject to Covid vaccine mandates complied with a very tiny minority refusing. So, the mandates worked, just as they do in insuring our kids get vaccinated before entering public schools.
Except it's not a vaccine by definition, does not work against the virus and causes more harm than the disease itself.
But let's ignore than and jump... to conclusions!
Also, you can opt out of childhood vaccines. There's this sneaky little "objections of conscience" clause. And that right to informed consent thing.
This is bullshit. The combo of omicron and vaccines has rendered COVID nearly irrelevant as a public health issue. Colorado currently has 77 COVID hospitalizations compared to 1600 at the peak. Stop paying attention to cases.
Very relevant according to public health officials who coincidentally have vastly greater power during a public health "emergency"
Oh yeah justabill, who wouldn't want the power to deal with overcrowded ICUs and telling spouses and family that their loved one - usually unvaccinated - croaked last night. That makes no sense.
You're back at this shit. Years of telling your dumb ass that hospitals are designed to run near-capacity to make money and it goes in one ear and out the other without making contact.
Dishonest moron.
Why are you using spring time numbers to compare to a peak in winter? Seems quite dishonest.
You can keep with the lies and narratives chicken little.
Jesse, the peak for deaths and hospitalizations was the Delta Variant and that was in the fall, not that long ago. Yes, Omicron was much less dangerous - good- though more contagious and the new variant even more so on both counts. It is surging in Eurpe and up by about 20% here. True conservatives are "better safe than sorry", but hey, I guess there aren't any conservatives here.
Mendacious shitweasel.
~90% of hospital cases in Israel, UK and Canada have been trending fully jabbed. Like I've been telling you, and has been publicly available to read since late 2019, mRNA gene therapies form non-neutralizing immune receptors that enhance infection in a disease already adroit at changing its spikes.
mRNA already has been trialed against coronavirus and failed, miserably. After providing a boost against the INITIAL STRAIN, it changed to negative efficacy against later strains, outpacing control groups.
This is, of course, not counting the vast list of harmful side effects and the 20% higher all-cause illness in testing Pfizer's document dump illustrated for us.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2018.02991/full
WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!
/Schmoe Friday
well, he's not wrong about that, just the timeline.
are you mentally retarded or delusional?
That's not really an either/or question.
Stay in your basement, fucktard.
Really missing it aren’t you?
Fuck off slaver.
No. The case rate hasn’t surged since the first of the year. New cases are down to maybe 20k-30k a week, and deaths, that lag cases by a couple weeks just hit about 1 per 100k - on the way down towards zero.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailycases_7daydeathsper100k
Yes - the CDC says, in their charts, that both cases and deaths have crashed.
I didn't say they did Bruce. I did say the new variant is growing - up in Europe, usually a window on what we'll get - and is up 20% here over the last month.
Disaffected, powerless, virus-flouting right-wing misfits are among my favorite culture war casualties.
The liberal-libertarian mainstream will continue to shape our national progress against the wishes of conservatives, faux libertarians, and vestigial bigots. The losers get to whine about it as much as they like, but they will continue to comply with the preferences of their betters.
Carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit, anyway.
I see you've made your choice
Why haven't you learned from last year's Virginia election that labeling your opponents with names and throwing false accusations at them isn't gonna win you votes?
Seek Jesus and repent.
You voted for it.
What is that supposed to mean anyway? That he can't criticize Biden because he voted for him? That he wanted all of Biden's policies? Or are you just trying to be smarmy like a sneering leftist?
I understand you are a challenged person and have great difficulty navigating the internet. Why, wasn't it only a few mere weeks ago you finally discovered how to search by yourself to verify information?
Try to remember what you did, and then maybe pay attention when numerous people link repeated Reason articles and staff comments on how they would vote for Biden or anyone but BadOrangeMan.
Take your time.
I'll take that to mean "Derp! Yup! Damn straight! and Fuck yeah!"
Poor sarc.
Ideas!
It means he's admitting to voting for Trump, possibly the most embarrassing thing any human has ever admitted to.
Only because you have no shame for your support for totalitarian governance and the forcible suppression of contrary thought.
Where was this article when we needed it?
It's libertarian magazine, so they took more of a 'hands-off' approach while the entire country, and every state and local government, and powerful fed officials were describing the next two years of your life using "prison language" such as "locked down".
“New normal”
You expected a libertarian stance on masks and mandates from a 'libertarian' magazine? Not until it is clearly safe to support such a view, until then, support for mandates, lockdowns, and violations of individual rights in the name of 'science' will be the byline. Or, at best, some waffling and hand-wringing, and risible attempts to blame the last administration for everything.
We weren't wearing masks in Spring 2020 as covid plunged across the country. There's no reason to be wearing them Spring 2022 or any time after. The virus is seasonal and nothing we do changes that.
Summer 2020 was insane. I really think that if people who weren't old or sick had been encouraged to go about life as normal, we would have been a lot better off going into winter.
As I said at the time, if you think that people are going to get sick when you let them out, there's no better time for that to happen than during summer. I also said that as we moved into flu season, you wanted as much of your curve behind you as possible (as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed), because the people who need to be in the hospitals during flu season are most susceptible to covid.
I know, I know. Pretty racist.
Fact is that excess deaths were significant in every month in both 2020 and 2021. Hospitalizations were a significant problem in the southern US In both those summers. And while the aggregate hospitalizations/deaths peak in winter -aggregate is meaningless. The only scale or timeframe that matters is local.
Lockdowns kill people. And all you did was add lockdown deaths to covid deaths.
^THIS! Heart disease actually kills people and many did not seek treatment soon enough because of the lies and fear during the lockdowns.
Or because the hospitals were all over capacity with covid patients.
Except hospitals routinely run just below capacity to make money. And then we fired all the nurses who worked without a "vaccine" through Covid so "vaccinated" nurses could treat us. Even when they themselves had Covid. While "vaccinated." Because that's safer than possibly catching Covid from an "unvaccinated."
Almost all the people who have died from Covid in the last year were unvaccinated.
If it weren't for the burden this places on medical workers, I'd say that was a fair use of their freedom.
You're also "unvaccinated" by the CDC's metrics unless you are in weeks 2-6 after your most recent booster. Because it's recognized that you are MORE likely to be infected during the first 2wks and that the efficacy drops off hard by week 6.
4 weeks of qualifying as "vaccinated." Every other case is treated as un-.
The Devil, and Democrats, are in the details.
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This is truly fascinating. Everyone went through the same pandemic and dealt with the same inconveniences. I do not understand why I'm supposed to respect an opinion that 100% amounts to "I'm weaker and whinier than you, pay attention!"
The government bought all the vaccines that saved everyone's lives. Remember not having to pay for that miracle of science that saved millions of lives?
The whining. It just never fucking ends.
Oh the government "bought" it huh???
And exactly how did they *EARN* all that money???
Last I heard all they did was commanded the Gov-Guns....
You worship Gun Force way too much Tony....
It earned it by being the government, the entity that literally makes all the money.
Now that is grade AAA retard, right there.
Remember follow the science? Is this what happens when science goes places you don't like?
Did you know Brandon is polling lower than Trump at this point? He has become the most unpopular President in history with a stacked Democrat deck.
How long until midterms? Do you think you can keep anyone in office outside of California?
I don't know, but I fully expect you to continue not noticing how shockingly poorly the US economy does under Republicans relative to Democrats. Like, go look it up. It's actually shocking how much damage they're capable of by sheer stupidity.
lmao...
"What Inflation? What Great Depression? What Great Recession?"
Well Tony unless you are younger than 15; You've already experiences two "Democratic" economic disasters in real-life.
Oh but that's right... Propaganda that violates reality is far more dependable than reality itself to leftards... /s Why the earth is melting due to CO2 (that thing plants crave). Never-mind that anyone who opens their front-door can see that's complete B.S. It just has to be. /s
What would you call our current economic situation under Brandon? CNN even used such phrases as "really bad," and I even heard that awful wingnut.com unflation drivel.
Stay strong, midterms are almost here and you need to think of ways to promote cheating to win.
Strongest job growth in US history. An economy so hot the big problem is slowing it down. A total success story is what I think.
FOX News will of course find some anecdote somewhere that looks bad and turn it into a terrible economy, but it's a midterm year and they're Republican propagandists, so all that you need to do is not be a dumbfuck and fall for it.
lmao...
The only thing "hot" about the economy is inflation.
8.5% is the official inflation number. This is the worst in over 40 years. Anecdotally, my costs for doing business have risen closer to +50%.
I'm just not sophisticated enough, I guess.
Actually, those gene therapies that you call “vaccines” may have killed more through side effects than saved.
And the government doesn’t actually make money. They either seize it from taxpayers, or they pay for it with the inflation caused by deficit spending.
"........and Leave Us Alone"
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
“medical variety” being the operative phrase
Duhh! silly, manipulated by astro turf, faithful
The rational thinkers among us have worn N95’s since day one
Meanwhile in Quebec, they promised us then we won't have to wear the mask until April 16, but they decided to extend it to the end of the mouth.
I forgot to mention, strange then some ecologists and environementalists talk a lot about climate change but not a lot about mask pollution where we see masks dropped everywhere like cigarette butts.
They also said you had a democracy.
It really is political. And as my proof, I give you my own state of Virginia. Just one election and one opinion from the new Attorney General, and *poof* all the nonsense came to an end within the span of a week.
It can happen in your state, your county, your city, and your town, too. You just have to stop electing the wrong people. You have it in your power today to make this happen.
Why is J.D. Tuccille giving medical advise?
Why was a desk jockey like Fauci giving medical advice? At least when he started, he was telling the truth: masks are useless in preventing the spread of the common cold or its covid cousin. Of course he had to flip-flop to scare the covidiots into committing slo-mo suicide by lethal injection. That's a good thing, though: clean the gene pool.
"Leave us alone" (a stricture that appears in the headline but nowhere in the body) implies you, the anti-masker, will leave *us* alone by not going out in public, at least not without some reasonable assurance (self testing, handwashing, minding your contacts) you will not spread the Covid virus among us.
Now do AIDS, the common cold, herpes amd random meteors. Oh yeah, and sunlight causes cancer. Fuck, unsupervised danger everywhere!
I think you've got better odds in a bunker, snowflake.
Or you can get with actual science on that masks were as effective as tiger sticks, the jabs don't help but early or prophylactic ivermectin does, and that exercise and vitamin D are the two most critical elements to lowering Covid risk.
Hed-case probably also wants to lock up the gays to keep them from spreadin' AIDS among us.
Were you worried about yourself or others spreading a cold BEFORE the panic porn theater? Or the more serious influenza viruses? Or did you just deal with them like other normal, rational beings? Advice for you, just keep headin' south, maybe stop around Antarctica.
It means YOUR health is YOUR responsibility and your actions make a lot bigger difference to your health than anything other people do.
Don't smoke, don't abuse drugs or alcohol, eat a healthy diet, exercise regularly, get regular checkups, get plenty of sleep, get recommended vaccinations, avoid unnecessary stress, avoid too much UV without protection.
All those things will affect your odds of longevity more than whether or not people around you are wearing masks.
YOU do all that for your health if you want to maximize your odds of a long healthy life. Or don't - it's your decision. But LEAVE US ALONE.
Yeah let's end mask mandates in operating rooms, hospitals, nursing homes. Who needs those.
True, it is more psychological than biological. But obviously you don't want your surgeon sneezing or coughing when he has you opened up, but stopping spittle and droplets is what the masks are good for. They do not filter out sub-micron or 1 micron particles, like a virus.
In hospitals, the masks aren’t there to protect against aerosolized virons, like this one, but to protect against bacteria and viruses in saliva from the doctors and nurses. In particular, surgical masks were designed for surgery, and not infecting open wounds.
Funny... I went to the hospital the other day an no-one was wearing a mask... I guess the Nazi's already ended the mask mandates here.
Who needs those?? Well, that's a *really* good question. Apparently nobody here needs them.
And most likely the reason for that is working people probably don't need a Gov-Gun toting Nazi-Politician hanging over their back all day doing their thinking for them.
My favorite is watching the nurses quickly take the masks off the chin when you open the door.
Recirculated air what?
As evidenced by the above there are many versions of truth with documentable sources. In some instances higher hospitalization and death occurred primarily in the unvaxxed and in other instances the higher numbers were reported in the vaxxed. What is evident to me is that there are no trusted sources. It appears obvious that the previously trusted sources are now indebted to big pharma. Could it be? The vaccine mandates are enriching to those who are the biggest proponents. As for masking, the CDC guidelines for some positions require the unvaxxed to mask while the vaccinated are not required to mask. This is the height of absurdity and is assuredly punitive in nature. The vaxxed are not protected from infection and are also subject to viral shedding and spread.
The feds can't enforce the mandates themselves--all they can really do is issue them. They have to outsource enforcement: they simply lack the manpower.
Bearing that in mind, here's what I'd love to see happen. I'm on a commercial flight and the stewardess gives the usual "federal mask mandate" spiel.
And then the pilot comes on the PA system and says something like, "you've now heard what we are legally required to tell you. As the pilot-in-command, I'm telling you that we REFUSE TO enforce the mask mandate, so if you want to wear a mask, feel free to do so. And if you prefer not to wear one, we're fine with that as well. The bit about you being put on a no-fly list and being fined or imprisoned WILL NOT HAPPEN as a result of flying with us today. So sit back and enjoy your flight. And y'all come back and see us again real soon."
OK, you say, so what would the feds do? Shut down the airlines? November is a mere 7 months away, and the election is the first Tuesday in it, so not even a full 7 months to go. Jen Psaki can't spin this. Our VP can't complete a single coherent thought without breaking into peals of laughter. Our C-in-C can't even finish an entire English sentence when all he has to do is read it. He certainly can't co-ordinate prosecuting/persecuting something as complex as the hydra that is commercial flight.
The election would be ludicrously lopsided. This seems to be as much of a no-brainer as it could be.
You give them power by conforming. Of course, in some situations it may be next to impossible to NOT conform - especially if you are in a herd of sheep, all bleating the same tune.
Don't kid yourself. Push comes to shove there will be Gov-Guns shooting people.
I don't mind "their" mask mandates. I just don't pay attention to them. Never have, never will.
Bragging about poor hygiene habits, and other modern conservative ideas.
Stay in your (mom's) basement.
Masks increase the dispersal of aerosols once saturation begins (~15 minutes of use) and trap oils, dirt and bacteria against your face.
Where you gonna run to next to find your sacred cows?
It’s actually pretty easy to prove that the government’s actions cost (not saved) the lives of our youth and children. Just count the increase in suicides of those ages 5-18 in the last two years. Compare this to the almost nonexistent deaths from COVID in this age group and you have the number of our children killed by the government’s lockdowns school closures and other related actions.
Let's say there's a large portion of humanity that approaches life with adventure, ambition, some competitive spirit, enjoyment of risk, and humor. Let's call them "guys".
And let's also say that another large portion of humanity approaches life with reserve, a focus on empathy and care, aversion to risk, and distaste for humor. Let's call them "women".
Question: what happens when public leadership, especially for health and other social policy, is dominated by "women"?
Women need the Power of Gov-Guns to "empower" (entitle) themselves over everyone else. Just like every other run of the mill [WE] mob some-affiliation gang does...
Didn't you hear; It's Gang-land politics here in the USA now. As all unlimited "democracies" are..
Once upon a time before treasonous politicians and Supreme Court Justices existed it was a Constitutional Union of Republican States that had a Supreme Law over it that didn't allow any [WE] Power-Mad gangs to Nazi-Regime everyone by unlimited democracy. Why it was something about Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
Apparently the [WE] mob some-affiliation gangs didn't like their Power-Mad Gov-Guns being limited like that though.
J.D. TUCCILLE - Reason Author
Liar.. Liar.. Liar.. Liar...
Masks do not work against respiratory viruses like COVID. It is simple math - geometry actually. The best N95 masks on the market claim to filter out particles larger than 3 microns (millionths of a meter). A COVID virus is 80-120 nanometers (billionths of a meter). That means 30 COVID viruses holding hands could traipse through the gaps in an N95. They might stop a bacterium but not a virus. For those who say “What about droplets?”; those droplets don’t travel far or last long - especially here in Arizona with high temperatures, high UV radiation, and low humidity. Ask yourself this, if masks work, why did we never use them for any other potentially deadly respiratory virus like the flu? Spoiler alert! Because they don’t work.
Interesting 180° for the "libertarian" magazine that used to publish Ronald "Wear a mask. Get vaxxed" Bailey and Robby "government is bad but the CDC is right" Soave" and who used to chastize those of us who have known since day 1 that masks are bull shit.
All this talk about cfr and whatnot. People miss the point. Which was evident early on in the Covid crisis. You don’t shut down the world when a plague occurs. One…it doesn’t work. The virus is going to take its toll. Masks, social distancing, and all that bs. It doesn’t actually work. If we’re going to protect people, focus on the elderly and otherwise vulnerable. Otherwise, keep working and don’t ruin the lives of billions of people, like schoolchildren. I’m embarrassed by the “adult’s” reaction - omfg we’re all gonna die!! Hide under your bed!!” What a sickening pathetic joke. We will pay the price of our cowardice for generations.
https://www.justfacts.com/news_face_masks_deadly_falsehoods
Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Masks, and the Deadly Falsehoods Surrounding Them