Ukraine Is Not Taiwan
Biden's response to Putin invading Ukraine does not "embolden" a cascade of crises.

With Russian President Vladimir Putin sending troops into Ukraine, many journalists and analysts—even former President Donald Trump—have jumped to the conclusion that Taiwan is next. "Russia is in the headlines today, but China will be the spearhead of the authoritarian cause," writes the Atlantic Council's Michael Shuman.
But there is no direct link between Putin's invasion of Ukraine and China's taunting of Taiwan.
Ukraine separated from the Soviet Union just 31 years ago. China and Taiwan have had separate governments for 73 years; they were united under the same regime for just four of the last 127 years. Taiwan is essentially united in wanting to be free of Beijing's rule, while Ukraine has had to deal with unruly separatist regions loyal to Moscow. Taiwan is a flourishing liberal democracy, while Ukraine has yet to build a lasting democratic infrastructure.
Both countries are threatened by unpredictable nearby autocrats. But they are certainly not the same, and the U.S. hasn't treated them as such. Kharis Templeman of the Hoover Institution notes that "security support for Ukraine is recent, limited, and subsumed under broader concerns about Russia's challenge to the post-Cold War European security order"; in Taiwan, by contrast, "American interests run deep." The U.S. is Taiwan's primary security partner and source of military aid, training, and arms sales. This history of engagement dates back more than seven decades, and it reflects the fact that Washington sees much more at stake if Taiwan faces aggression.
Chinese President Xi Jinping believes the U.S. is a "fading superpower" that stands in the way of Chinese power. And China and Russia did recently establish an alliance (albeit a thin one). China came to Russia's defense by supporting an end to NATO expansion, and Russia returned the favor by supporting China's claim to Taiwan. China has also provided some relief to the Russian economy after the West reacted to the invasion with sanctions.
But China appears to have been surprised by Putin's military action. Beijing's response to the war has swayed between two stances it has been trying to hold simultaneously: generally opposing the invasion, and sympathizing with Moscow's security concerns.
Officials from Taiwan have emphasized the differences between the two countries. "Trying to inappropriately link Ukraine's situation with Taiwan's is disturbing people's morale," Cabinet spokesperson Lo Ping-cheng said Monday. Beijing doesn't want people comparing the situations either, though for different reasons: When Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying declared last week that "Taiwan is not Ukraine," she was arguing that "Taiwan has always been an inalienable part of China."
But the most important difference right now is a military one. "The Ukraine crisis will not influence Chinese decisions on whether or not to launch a full-scale amphibious invasion because, given the force demands, China simply lacks the capacity to do so for the foreseeable future," writes the Atlantic Council's Harlan Ullman. Putin preceded his invasion by amassing hundreds of thousands of troops on the Ukrainian border. China currently shows no sign of surrounding Taiwan in a comparable manner.
And for all the fears that a restrained response to the Ukraine invasion will "embolden" China to take Taiwan, the U.S. has displayed no unwillingness here to its defend its allies and partners. Indeed, while it has wisely refused to send troops into Ukraine, Washington has been intimately involved with the global efforts to sanction Moscow for the war. In any case, as the Atlantic Council's Emma Ashford points out, America's "growing focus on China will limit what Washington can and should commit." If the U.S. is bogged down in Ukraine, that hardly makes it more likely to stop China.
There's no reason as of now to believe that the U.S. will not maintain its long-held "strategic ambiguity" when it comes to Taiwan. Neither China nor Taiwan are drawing parallels between their situation and that between Russia and Ukraine; the United States shouldn't either.
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With Russian President Vladimir Putin sending troops into Ukraine, many journalists and analysts—even former President Donald Trump—have jumped to the conclusion that Taiwan is next.
Hong Kong's fall and Xi's own remarks make me conclude that Taiwan is next.
This lady is clueless. She should have the pen forcibly removed from her hands on the grounds of intellectual feebleness.
I'm pretty sure that this article is a brown envelope job.
The anti war republicans will be along shortly to call you a cowardly faggot.
Let's just point out first that this 24 yr old cutie with a degree in "leadership" has about as much foreign affairs expertise as my couch. She's expressing an opinion about governments, cultures and leaders that she knows nothing about and she has no historical perspective. Hell, Putin has been in power longer than she's been out of diapers.
Does this make her wrong? No, it just makes anything she's got to say unworthy. When Reason has turned over their foreign policy content engine to aspiring Gen-Zers, either they are desperate and their budgets have tanked or they have an idiot making staff decisions.
Bottom line, what Americans think about it, whatever the history of the relative countries, and whatever I or this youngin thinks she knows about it, the only thing that actually counts is what the Chinese think about it, and nobody from the Chinese government has informed Lil Miss Nat.
Ukraine is not why Taiwan is inevuitable.
Afghanistan is.
Pull out in a non fucked up manner and things would be fine. We did not do that.
Taiwan would be much harder to invade, and much harder to invade without destroying the value that occupying it would give. And China has a lot more to lose by being cut off from the world economy than Russia does.
Invading over 20 miles of open sea (as in WW2), let alone the 100 mile minimum distance to Taiwan, is a hugely difficult enterprise. In comparison, the land invasion by Russia into Ukraine is much more straightforward.
I have read that Taiwan has few beaches useful for invasion, but lots of rocky coasts and seaside cliffs.
And it would be pretty easy to demolish most of the worth of Taiwan as booty with a few cruise missiles hitting the TSMC foundries.
Indeed, and China has no experience at amphibious warfare.
And Taiwan is a rugged, mountainous country, not flat and nice for tanks. By the time D-Day came around the US had already had two years of experience of amphibious warfare under very tough conditions and it still was very difficult.
Taiwan could provide to be an even more tough nut to crack than Ukraine.
Taiwan is much, much, much more difficult to deal with than Ukraine.
Same reason why invading N Korea is a non-starter. Its terrain is about as bad as Afghanistan.
Amd really, who wants to take on THAT post war mess. It would make 2005 Iraq look like paradise.
Not the world economy. Basically it's just the US that recognizes Taiwan.
The US government does not recognize Taiwan.
The world economy recognizes Taiwan enough to buy lots of their products. Otherwise how could the Taiwan economy be doing so well?
To paraphrase the immortal words of Comrade Stalin, how many divisions does the world economy have?
I mean the new SWIFT-boat type sanctions China would face, in addition to the loss of high tech manufacturing capability.
Yeah, but China probably has a better military than Russia. Smarter, at least. The supply and logistics problems Russia has had show that they haven't ever even played a wargame
Rolling tanks and trucks across a frozen prairie is a lot easier than getting ships across 100 miles of open ocean, particularly with the US Navy in the area.
The world has a lot more to lose from being cut off from China too. Russia has Germany over a barrel for one raw material. China has everyone dead to rights on rare earth metals, magnets, and probably a hundred other products and raw materials I never thought of. We can't afford to stop trading with China.
China isn't going to invade Taiwan by landing guys on the beaches. They will use long range air and missile strikes to take out selected targets. Taiwan will very quickly find reasons to be loyal Chinese citizens again.
The first Chinese soldier to set foot on Taiwan will not be coming off a landing ship on a beach. He will be coming off a troop ship at the dock in Taipei to do occupation duty.
Dock in Taipei? I don't think so.
“God created war so that Americans would learn geography.”
― Mark Twain
Looks like pretty substantial port to me.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taipei+City,+Taiwan/@25.1047506,121.3680392,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x3442ac6b61dbbd8b:0xbcd1baad5c06a482!8m2!3d25.0329636!4d121.5654268
Right on the coast, just west of the river opening. Its actually called the Port of Taipei.
Keelung and Kaohsiung are Taiwan's principal ports. Taipei is an inland city. Taiwanese tend to be rather liberal with the use of the name Taipei. In international sporting events, they compete under the name of 'Chinese Taipei,' even though participants come from all over the island.
The value of Taiwan is found in the Taiwanese. A military takeover would destroy much of that value. Not necessarily in massive death toll, but in a people not conditioned for or amenable to living in a slave state.
No, the mainland is taking the long path and will absorb Taiwan culturally. The Taiwanese language is near dead and the younger generations already identify themselves as ethnically Chinese.
"No, the mainland is taking the long path and will absorb Taiwan culturally."
That happened long ago. The stirring national anthem is adapted from the words of Sun Yat Sen, founder of the Chinese Nationalist Party. The Taiwanese eat Chinese food with chopsticks. They speak the Minnan dialect, same as that spoken in Fujian Province, written with traditional Chinese characters. Except for a minority of aboriginal folk in the mountains, they identify as Chinese. There are lots of differences between the cultures, though. for example, Taiwanese measure area of houses by 'ping' 3.3 sq meters, something that dates back to the Japanese occupation.
“God created war so that Americans would learn geography.”
― Mark Twain
Both countries are threatened by unpredictable nearby autocrats.
Fuck Phil Murphy.
Bigly....and fuck the little troll Persichilli also.
It’s not as if Japan got any ideas seeing their German allies steamrolling Europe.
They didn't.
Japan started sooner.
Correct
Bear in mind, there are many libertarians who feel we should have sat out WW2 and that we provoked Japan into attacking us
They would be wrong.
You need to distinguish the two separate world wars. They had very little military connection.
Ukraine Is Not Taiwan
Biden's response to Putin invading Ukraine does not "embolden" a cascade of crises.
The headline alone feels like the kind of article that's regretted in five years.
Journalists don't feel regret.
What's a journalist?
Something we rarely see around these parts.
Ukraine Is Not Taiwan
Biden's response to Putin invading Ukraine does not "embolden" a cascade of crises.
There's already a cascade of crises. Pudding Cup Joe is just the toxic dessert with a cherry on top.
Biden's response to Putin invading Ukraine does not "embolden" a cascade of crises.
Yes it does. Just as Putin was emboldened by the Biden regime exposing themselves for bumbling fools in the wake of tossing Trump's Afghanistan deal aside, Xi is emboldened by the same Biden regime talking up a storm of bluster in Ukraine only to amount to some words of encouragement when push came to shove.
When they hear something to the effect of "We will not allow China to invade Taiwan", that's when they know they're fucked.
Pudding Cup Joe would probably say: "We will not allow China to invade Hong Kong."
"But there is no direct link between Putin's invasion of Ukraine and China's taunting of Taiwan."
Sure there is. The same people in Mordor-on-the-Potomac who have been working so hard to provoke Russia for over 20 years in order to restart the Cold War also want a cold war with China. Fortunately they don't anything like the same kind of room to maneuver against China.
Mordor-on-the-Potomac
LOL! You win the Internet of the Day!
Yeah, us letting a friendly country get invaded while Biden naps has absolutely no impact on what other countries who want to invade other countries might do
Like like our retreat from Afghanistan had nothing to do with our showing weakness and encouraging weakness.
OTOH, what is will do is convince Japan to re-arm, and S. Korea, Taiwan, and Japan to work closer (probably Singapore as well)
That would honestly be for the best. Japan should Nuke up and do it fast.
If you are Japan or Taiwan looking at the current situation, you have to assume that even if the US honors its commitments to defend them, it may very well be incapable of doing so.
China has been building its military for 20 years to do one thing: remove our carrier fleets as a threat in the battle for Taiwan. Who do you have more confidence right now? The China who went from zero to 100 in its space program in the same time, or the US who we saw bumbling in Afghanistan.
I'm willing to say that the US is probably a credible threat to a Chinese invasion...for now. But its capabilities are on a downward trend, and China's are only improving. I don't know when they cross over, but absent some serious changes in our government, it's isn't far off.
I may be wrong but I think Ukraine is the only country in the world to ever have had nuclear weapons and then give them up.
You're wrong. South Africa also gave up nuclear weapons voluntarily.
And now Belarus is going to have them located there *again*. Whee.
Japan has been a de-facto nuclear power for decades. They have functional ICBMs and nuclear power. The conversion process to weaponize uranium will be quick for them.
The larger issue is that they've known peace for the last 80 years and don't want to jeopardize it over meaningless wars that they have no national interest in waging. It is also a major betrayal of the public trust as Japan has repeatedly committed, albeit not via law, to never produce, process, or permit nuclear weapons in their territory. This was a large part of the Anpo protests and general anti-American sentiment in the 50s as many Japanese believed American had deployed nuclear weapons in Japanese territory during the Korean War. These then conspiracy theories were later vindicated and serve as a stark reminder that you cannot accept official government narratives unilaterally as truth.
I saw a documentary on Curiosity streaming service called I, Human which was about Artificial Intelligence. Red China is wanting to be equal to the U.S. on AI capabilities by 2025 and the world leader in AI by 2030!
Please, please, somebody roll Hoveround Joe out, give Kute Kackling Kammie a positiion as a Madame brothel owner in Las Vegas, desert all the CRT/SJW/Wokeist-dominated schools, and put a learn-to-code class on every corner and on every corner of the InnerTubez! NOW!
Who has claimed a direct relation between Ukraine and Taiwan? What has been suggested is that a supine response to Russian warmongering in Ukraine would encourage China to expect a similar response if they attempted to take Taiwan, which would make an invasion more likely as China utterly denies the legitimacy of the Taiwanese state, so what is holding them back is logistics and potential cost of such an operation, especially if the US comes to Taiwan's aid.
Precisely. Ukraine had been considered part of the Russian state for centuries; China sees Taiwan the same. The logistics for invading the two are very differrent, however, but the incentive is similar. Pooh is certainly going to school on Putin.
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1498374175114907652?t=4RTPK4oat9XmXHlb6x_-xA&s=19
Everyone knows what this implies, but he can't bring himself to outright say it yet
[Link]
Idiots like that get a lot of people killed.
I would guess that he means we should help arm the soon-to-be insurgents against the Russian puppet government. I don't disagree. Look how that damaged the Russians in Afghanistan, not to mention the Americans in Iraq and Afghan. It is very difficult to conduct anti-insurgency.
We could also supply humanitarian aid, even mobile hospitals in nearby border countries to help with refugees.
Even Marco is tired and wary of war.
Everyone knows what this implies, but he can't bring himself to outright say it yet
Lockdowns are a form of barbarism?
Ce n'est pas une question d'années 31 ans pour Ukraine et 73 pour Taïwan mais au moins pour deux raisons , la première la separation etait forcée Taïwan faisait partie de la Chine royaliste et après la révolution de Mao et le roi et ses membres d'Etat profond se sont enfuis dans cette île et donc Mao il ne pouvait s'occuper de la révolution et de poursuivre le roi et ses acolytes qui supposait une guerre ou le Tibet...la revolution de Mao comprenait île de Taïwan et ses habitants qui sont pour Mao des citoyens au même titre que ceux de Pekin . Et la divergence ou le separatisme était appué par les occidentaux et surtout par les americains de l'époque Truman en personne...de même Ukraine était avant la chute de mur de berlin un dimple oblast , une region russe que le système russe était comme un chateau de carte et que pour le Kremlin faisait profil bas pour survivre geopolitiquement parlant donc Zelensky etait né en 1978 un russe! Quant à la deuxième raison est que et la Russie et la Chine respectivement 2 eme puissance militaire mondialement et la Chine 3 éme puissance militaire mondialement veulent unir leurs forces pour decoudre avec les americains et Otan donc c'une bataille ou une guerre pour non seulement le leader chef mais surtout pour être traités sur un même pied d'égalité qui signifie la relation de maître à esclave que les americains et les occidentaux les traitent ce traitement n'est pas à la hauteur de leur puissance militaire et donc il y a un dédain que la Chine srnt profondement avec la propagande americaine une des dures avec le covid19 et que Poutine sent aussi ce dedain des occidentaux donc il y aura une unité pour affronter militairement led americains et les Européens...donc à la limite tout est nucléaire
No hablo Español. Amigo.
C'est Français, Monsieur!</iI
I don’t spreckenzie Italian.
You know who else didn't sprechenzie Italian?
Push for a no fly zone is heating up.
No fly zone = direct conventional war.
Agreed...it would be plainly stupid for NATO to declare a no fly zone, let alone enforce one. What NATO can do though, is simply state that air incursions into NATO skies will be met with lethal force.
That is playing by the rules of the game.
There is no way we could enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine. But we very much should enforce one over NATO or other friendly nations.
https://twitter.com/emeriticus/status/1498344035580264464?t=GUwjq96EXrb4J3-AbMf7ig&s=19
Are people going to realize that the myth of Ukraine as a battle for democracy will be used to target political opponents in the US? It's no different from the myth of Jan. 6 as an insurrection. They're openly talking about using this against Americans.
[Link]
Are there maps anymore? Taiwan is an island.
The Formosa straight looks like a benign passage until it is full of warships; then it looks like a shooting gallery.
Another small difference is that the Russian army is mostly 2 year draftees, the Peoples Liberation Army has conscription on the books, but currently is all volunteer, and a much higher quality of ground units than Russia. But they are not good enough to walk on water.
And surely communists have fully functioning units, all trainees are super, no mechanical equipment is out of service due to missing parts, poorly trained maintenance folks. We all know that, like Russia, the communist / socialist is a paragon of efficiency and effectiveness.
And if, say the US starts landing cargo planes, like the Berlin Airlift, is china going to shoot them down?
They can conscript the Uighurs and kill a million birds with one stone. The Chinese are willing to lose a million men in an attack. Is Taiwan?
There is historical precedent to consider:
"Thousands of Chinese had attacked from the north, northwest, and west against scattered U.S. and South Korean (Republic of Korea or ROK) units moving deep into North Korea. The Chinese seemed to come out of nowhere as they swarmed around the flanks and over the defensive positions of the surprised United Nations (UN) troops. Within hours the ROK 15th Regiment on the 8th Cavalry’s right flank collapsed, while the 1st and 2d Battalions of the 8th Cavalry fell back in disarray into the city of Unsan. By morning, with their positions being overrun and their guns falling silent, the men of the 8th Cavalry tried to withdraw, but a Chinese roadblock to their rear forced them to abandon their artillery, and the men took to the hills in small groups. Only a few scattered survivors made it back to tell their story."
https://history.army.mil/brochures/kw-chinter/chinter.htm
That was the last quarter 1950.
Four years later?
The Chinese seemed to come out of nowhere
Just like Ukraine ... in the eyes of many (Brandon), despite the very public and well-documented daily count of troops and tanks. American unpreparedness is our greatest weakness. Our senior leadership needs to do more contingency planning and war-gaming.
"But there is no direct link between Putin's invasion of Ukraine and China's taunting of Taiwan."
Why?
I can see that China might be like 'Hmm, taking a firmly resisting "nation" might require unacceptable loss or atrocities, we should work harder to soften up Taiwan'
But I don't see 'Biden is a squish on the Ukraine invasions, but he will totally get a blowtorch and pliers and go medieval on asses if we attack Taiwan.'
>>China appears to have been surprised by Putin's military action.
c'mon, Shelly.
Might as well face it, all you fugazi libertarian junior grade Block Yomommas of Reason: your president Sleepy Joe Brandon absolutely, completely, and totally sucks ass.
This is what you voted for, so own it bitches.
The suggestion that our enemies aren't watching our reaction is absurd, and it isn't just China.
North Korea and Iran are watching. So are our allies in Australian and Japan.
And judged against war or doing nothing as the other options, it seems to be that Biden has done okay.
Ken, I say this respectfully, maybe Biden has done okay in the zone between war and doing literally nothing....NOW...
...but what did he do to help or harm the situation since he swore in as POTUS or in his previous years in the government ?
I also blame him for emboldening Putin back in May 0f 2021, when he dropped his opposition to Nord Stream 2. That was a terrible decision, and reversing too late doesn't make up for it.
I just don't do it in every thread.
Maybe an accident can happen to the pipleine during this unfornate time ...
I respect how you stick to your principles and opposition to bad ideas and bad decisions rather than opposition to people. Few people are always wrong and it's worth giving people who are generally bad credit when they aren't. That doesn't excuse the times they are wrong. It's not "giving cover" to "the enemy". Kudos.
I give Biden a C+ for the Ukraine response (as much as we know about what has been done) He gave a strong signal about sanctions, but not about weapons or humanity aid.
Chinese President Xi Jinping believes the U.S. is a "fading superpower" that stands in the way of Chinese power. Only a moron believes that. Intelligent people understand it's the Gospel Truth.
Pretty bad take tbh. Of course it emboldens foreign powers, especially China. Ukraine proves that existing military alliances are meaningless in the age of nuclear power and MAD. If you and your allies can get nuked, you can't fight each other directly. You have to maintain your nuclear hegemony and that means fighting satellite wars through puppets.
In other words, China can march into Taiwan, subjugate its people, and we will sit by idly. Even Japan, Korea and India won't lift a finger either.
"Even Japan, Korea and India won't lift a finger either."
They haven't lifted a finger to counter the Chinese actions in Xinjiang or Tibet, either. They see Taiwan as a part of China. None of these countries recognize Taiwan as an independent country.
The following 15 nations recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country: Guatemala, Honduras, Haiti, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Eswatini, Tuvalu, Nauru, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Marshall Islands, Palau, and the Vatican City (U.N. non-member). If China invades, it is these countries Taiwan can look to for support.
I am struck by the fact that China and Taiwan seem to have an accommodation, that works well for them both. Both countries maybe happy enough to keep things the way they are for the time. China expresses its desire to control Taiwan, but does not force the issue. Taiwan doesn't push the issue of independence too hard. China and Taiwan may need to resolve their issues, but I don't think that is coming for a while.
"Taiwan is essentially united in wanting to be free of Beijing's rule, while Ukraine has had to deal with unruly separatist regions loyal to Moscow."
Well, duh: Taiwan is an island, it's a lot harder for China to infiltrate 'separatists' into Taiwan than it is for Russia to infiltrate them into Ukraine.
It's not like those 'separatist' regions got that way spontaneously, after all. That was Russia's doing to create a pretext for invasion.
Russia infiltrated 'separatists' to the Crimea over 200 years ago, AFTER they invaded it and chased out the Turks.
“God created war so that Americans would learn geography.”
― Mark Twain
I'm pretty sure the Chinese have been made aware of the existence of boats. And aircraft. It's not like a Chinese infiltrator has a staff with a Chinese flag on his or her shoulder when they come to "visit" Taiwan. Separatists can be brought in at a reasonable pace and assembled at a later date. The Chinese are patient, and cunning. Just like every other imperialist group. If they decide to take on Taiwan, you can bet there will already be friendlies in country.
Jeeze, we are actually going to have a reboot of Mccarthy all over again.
There won't be hearings, just removal of all access to financial institutions or employment
And, funny enough, inverting Nick's stupidity Re: Socialism vs. Stalinism, that literally was McCarthyism, this will be more Big Brother, with kids' parents being "indicted" for showing up at school board meetings or for the kids' posts on social media.
That means it’s time to end this problem. Eliminate the democrat party and round up all their looks and operatives. Unless you all want o wait around until we’re cruelly enslaved by them.
You misspelled 'days'.