Biden Calls Ending Mask Mandates 'Premature' but Can't Say When It Won't Be
The president is waiting until children, who have always faced an infinitesimal risk from COVID-19, are "more protected."

"It's hard to say whether they're wrong," President Joe Biden said in an NBC News interview that aired yesterday, referring to the Democratic governors who have recently lifted face mask requirements for businesses and/or schools. "I think it's probably premature, but it's a tough call."
Why is it a tough call? In his interview with NBC's Lester Holt, Biden suggested that such decisions depend partly on "whether the omicron variant continues to dive." He also mentioned the Food and Drug Administration's pending approval of COVID-19 vaccines for children younger than 5. "Every day that goes by, children are more protected," he said. "The more protection they have, probably you're going to see less and less requirement to have the masks."
In other words, Biden has no clear idea of when it will no longer be "premature" to stop forcing masks on adults in public places and children in schools and day care centers. The administration will not say what threshold must be crossed before those steps would be prudent, and the two criteria Biden mentioned—daily new cases and vaccination rates—are of dubious relevance now that Americans, including those who are especially vulnerable to COVID-19, have the tools to protect themselves, regardless of whether everyone else is required to wear a mask.
Newly reported cases in the United States, which exploded from mid-December to mid-January, have fallen precipitously since then. Yesterday's seven-day average, according to the New York Times database, was less than 175,000, down 78 percent from the peak on January 17. Hospitalizations, which include patients who tested positive after they were admitted for other reasons, have dropped by 42 percent since January 19. The seven-day average of daily deaths, another lagging indicator, has been falling since February 1.
Also relevant as the Biden administration searches in vain for an "off-ramp": The currently dominant omicron variant, while highly contagious, tends to cause less severe symptoms than earlier iterations of the coronavirus, and vaccination provides additional protection. When I got COVID-19 last month, I was a bit congested for a few days, and that was pretty much it. I have had worse experiences with the common cold. Given omicron's relatively mild effects, my symptoms might have been about the same even if I had not been triply vaccinated, although I was grateful for whatever additional protection that provided.
Millions of Americans have had similar experiences, which is one reason mask mandates are an especially hard sell at this point in the pandemic. At the same time, those widespread, generally mild infections have boosted natural immunity, making Americans less vulnerable to the coronavirus.
What about vaccination rates? Overall, nearly two-thirds of Americans have received two doses, and rates are especially high in the older age groups that face the biggest risks: about 80 percent for ages 50 to 64, 91 percent for ages 65 to 74, and 85 percent for people 75 or older. In contemplating when mask wearing can safely be made voluntary, Biden apparently is focused on vaccination rates among children, which are 57 percent for 12-to-17-year-olds and 24 percent for 5-to-11-year-olds.
But that focus makes no sense because children are extremely unlikely to suffer life-threatening COVID-19 symptoms even if they are not vaccinated. Back in March, based on data collected before vaccines were available to anyone, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that the infection fatality rate for people younger than 18 was 0.002 percent. "A (pre-vaccine!) analysis from Germany shows that if a child is infected with COVID—with or without preexisting conditions—there is an 8 in 100,000 chance of going to the intensive care unit," University of California, San Francisco, epidemiologist Vinay Prasad notes. "According to the same study, the risk of death is 3 in 1 million, with no deaths reported in the over-5 age group. These risks are astonishingly low."
Yet Biden is suggesting that school mask mandates must be maintained not only until vaccination rates among 5-to-17-year-olds reach some unspecified threshold but until that same undefined goal is reached among children younger than 5, for whom vaccines are not yet approved. People younger than 18 account for about 22 percent of the U.S. population. But according to the CDC, they account for 0.09 percent of Americans who have died from COVID-19. Biden is nevertheless waiting for the day when "children are more protected."
The president's emphasis on children's safety is clearly a red herring. But what about teachers and other adults who might catch COVID-19 from students? Their best safeguard is vaccination, which dramatically reduces the risk of severe symptoms. And immunocompromised adults (or children) who might not get the same benefit can protect themselves from infection by wearing high-quality, well-fitting masks, no matter what everyone else is doing.
"At this point in the pandemic," New York Times columnist David Leonhardt writes, "there is a strong argument that a targeted approach—lifting restrictions while taking specific measures to protect the vulnerable—can maximize public health." The argument about broad restrictions vs. "a targeted approach," of course, has been going on throughout the pandemic. Lockdown opponents have been arguing for two years that the costs of population-wide mandates could not be justified by the public health payoff and that it made more sense to focus on "protect[ing] the vulnerable." The availability of vaccines, effective treatments, and high-quality masks makes that argument more persuasive than ever.
"I committed that I would follow the science, the science as put forward by the CDC," Biden told Holt. Unfortunately, "the science" is not always the same as "the science put forward by the CDC." The agency is still insisting on "universal masking" in K–12 schools and day care centers, which applies to children as young as 2, despite the lack of evidence that its benefits outweigh its costs and despite the dissent from a growing number of blue-state governors. The CDC also routinely exaggerates the evidence in favor of general mask wearing by adults.
"Does it begin to make the CDC irrelevant?" Holt wondered. Biden did not have a good answer, and neither does the CDC.
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My prediction: 3-4 more months. Or whenever the current school year ends in your state.
Two weeks to slow the spread.
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You must be a teacher?
of kamalas legs...
Biden looks like Jiang Shi
僵尸
An animated pasty faced Zombie.
Someone stick a yellow ribbon on his forehead...
Fuck Joe Biden and his Pet Monkey FauXi.
Oh, come on, will you! Biden is right to say that ending mask mandates nationwide is premature, because it is.
Get with the science, Maypole.
Especially that number from John Hopkins showing almost no positive impact from mask mandates, but a host of deleterious effects.
https://padailypost.com/2022/02/07/johns-hopkins-study-finds-lockdowns-didnt-work-should-be-rejected-out-of-hand-in-the-future/
they are setting up for the mid terms thinking they will be destroyed. biden will lift mandates put out false numbers and say he beat covert-19. the ukraine fiasco is another way for biden to seem like Gen Patton
I called it in October that Dems would say it's basically over in February. Everyone wants 8-9 months between their authoritarian dictates and an election. As usual however, Biden is behind on this one, but will be pressured to be all on board by the State of the Union. As for the reason he's still all about the mask and vax for babies is because he got rightly beat up for not having home test kits available... even still, and he doesn't want a billion or so government paid for test kits, masks and baby vaxes sitting in a warehouse, proving once again that he's wrong about everything.
you mean WE paid for...
Musk isnt paying for them.
North Dakota got tired of waiting for the federal government and went out and bought their own.
Not sure about lifting the mandates so soon. The Dems still need them as an excuse for mail-in ballots in November.
Based on what we know about coronaviruses, the evolution and their spread, it is likely we will be dealing with a new variant outbreak around the time of the next election anyhow. The best hope is that this outbreak, and delta, has infected a large enough percentage of the population, that the next outbreak will be much smaller in magnitude.
Which is about par for the course, for viral pandemics, as we approach year three, with or without vaccines, we would expect decreasing case numbers with new outbreaks. As with previous viral pandemics, the initial variant infected a large number, case counts increased with the next one to two variants, and then, if it follows almost all previous outbreaks, the number of susceptible individuals has fallen to a degree that future outbreaks will be much smaller.
The bitter-enders amongst the Branch Covidians are still holding out for maintaining mandates until we reach Zero Covid. Which will happen...never.
November, not never.
They are broken people.
They're also the loudest people in the room, for some reason.
And they're ruining EVERYTHING. Opera tickets tomorrow, and they sent you an attendance guide. Despite the mask mandates "expiring" that Newsome announced, they don't actually expire. Concerts indoors still require masks the whole time, vaccine cards for entry, and for some reason they've even added a requirement for metal detectors to get in.
For the fucking opera. 3000 people in that room for 3 hours... masks aren't going to do shit. Metal detectors are only going to catch some guy's hip replacement and some lady's walker.
Safety nazis rule the roost now.
They've convinced the public that they know best and, should you not take heed, you will die.
Just ask my wife who had become a germaphobe working in a hospital and now, has gone over the edge to zealot due to her fears. No matter what anyone says to her.
Yes, they should be !
Branch Covidians.... that's funny.
I first caught that from reading Tom Woods.
In other words, Biden has no clear idea.
You should have ended the sentence there.
You beat me to that one!
"It's hard to say whether they're wrong," President Joe Biden said in an NBC News interview that aired yesterday, referring to the Democratic governors who have recently lifted face mask requirements for businesses and/or schools. "I think it's probably premature, but it's a tough call."
It's even HARDER to say whether they're right.
Hard to say they are wrong because they are Democrats. Were they Republicans, he'd be all about the "Neanderthal" name-calling. Right and wrong are actually party-dependent.
Exactly.
Fuck Biden and fuck the CDC. This shit needs to end.
Let's Go Brandon.
3 criticisms of him in just over a year. Good work buddy.
I would be remiss not to cite this though.
sarcasmic
August.30.2021 at 11:46 am
Flag Comment Mute User
Either the vaccine is 100% safe and effective, or there is no point in taking it at all. If you say it's a good idea then you're saying it's 100% safe and effective, and you're wrong. Just to prove it people who've been vaccinated have died of the disease. That means it's a joke. It doesn't work at all for anyone. It's all a big lie being pushed by Democrats who want to take away our freedoms. Don't you know anything?
You said the same thing about masks as well. It is good you finally were able to get over your hatred of those who like liberty more than you and your need to fight them though.
Dude.., u need to get a life. U spend way to much time in this comment section. No one cares how cleaver u r.
The Phucko Knows
These are not the only two options. Your premise is false.
Fuck Castreau
"I think it's probably premature, but it's a tough call."
A few more polls, and we should be able to work it out.
Is that like Ibamas ' gutsy call' that his Generals made for him?
Worthless Grifters...
Why is it a tough call? In his interview with NBC's Lester Holt, Biden suggested that such decisions depend partly on "whether the omicron variant continues to dive."
Everyone keeps talking about 'diving'. Um, I've been watching the COVID infection/death tracker very closely.
We began a slight dip arguably from the ~Feb 1 high. The High in February wasn't THAT much lower than the Delta high in Jan 2021 where a sharp decline began. Why is this dip magically different than the dip in Jan 26 2021?
Biden is technically not wrong here. According to The Scientism that was in Play in 2020 and 2021.
Well, he is assuming that Omicron is the end of COVID's evolution and that if it dives we're "safer". In all likelihood, there will be another variant with a corresponding wave and then dip in infections. We're going to get tired of naming them eventually.
He's still on the "maybe COVID will go away one day" train, and that makes him wrong.
If people weren't insane, the next wave would be known as "a cold".
The wave that just ended was a cold.
My entire house got Omicron.
It is a cold.
Not even. Cold was worse this year, kid brought home both.
It's a forgotten fact that the coronavirus existed before 19 and will exist afterward. So will the flu and a lot of others. However, the others have never been seen as a political opportunity to seize power via fear. Basically, they just didn't recognize the opportunity till now.
Joe Friday also seems to lean on the side that Omicron is the last variant, bases on his post a couple days ago. He did back off when I pointed out a new variant will likely be along late summer, like last summer.
We have probably reached the point where there will be multiple variants circulating at the same time, much like influenza.
It is definitely a possibility, but like influenza, there will likely be one or two dominant variants. There are currently at least four variants circulating right now, Alpha, Delta, Omicron and a variant that appears to be similar to both Delta and Omicron that some idiot has named Deltacron.
Based upon the Greek alphabet, they is likely two other variants as well, Beta and Gamma.
And I seem to recall a Lambda variant too.
They will tell you it's because more people are vaccinated.
In reality, it's driven purely by the polls. The Political Science has been driving the bus this whole time.
No one was vaccinated in late 2020 as we went up like a rocket in deaths and cases. That rise represented soceital DOOM!
Kajillions were vaccinated during the rocket rise starting in August, and then Kajillions more were vaccinated during the new uptick that started in Dec. of 2021 which continued literally until a few days ago.
Something's not working. Your vaccine isn't working, your masks aren't working, your social distancing isn't working, your remote learning isn't working, your vaccine mandates aren't working, your covid passports working, or all eleventy thousand polices aren't working together in a beautiful ballet of 'not working'.
But if we do all of those things harder, they'll work great this time.
Exactly.
"But if we do all of those things harder, they'll work great this time."
Fallacy commonly applied to:
eradicating disease
eliminating poverty
creating "equity"
dissolving any and all perceived differences among people [race, gender]
gun control as a proxy for addressing criminal activities
Any no doubt many others; the belief that the right people, with a bunch of effort [and money and resources expended], coupled with the acceptance of the inevitability of progress, fuels such notions.
We lose money on each sale, but will make up for it in volume.
The farmer's motto!
Just two more weeks to flatten the curve!
Ad infinitum.
It reminds me of how the Army fucked me over in 2003, during my deployment. Was originally called up to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan. Then Turkey said we couldn't use it as a staging area. So the Army instead deployed us stateside. Put us on TCS orders instead of PCS orders, which are good only for 90 days, and just kept renewing those fuckers. We spent over a year on TCS orders. What that meant was the Army didn't have to pay for household goods move or for our families to move. Leave it to the government.
And people ask why veterans usually don't support or like the government?
Didn't you see the bodies piling up in the hospital hallways?
Well, at least in Italy.
All those things are working great, just for a different goal than we are told.
>Everyone keeps talking about 'diving'. Um, I've been watching the COVID infection/death tracker very closely.
I just checked local numbers, which I do a couple times a week. Weekend numbers were 700 and 900, last week they were 2K, three weeks ago they were close to 20K.
Hospitalization (counted as with) and ICU (counted as of), the trailing numbers, are declining. Deaths are declining.
You need numbers to dive Mr Biden? They've done dove. Full on Greg Louganis, and they didn't even hit the board on the way.
Omicron is impossibly contagious. One strain of it is more infectious than measles, which makes it about the most infectious virus in modern human history. It's just plain out of hosts to infect here. I may be wrong, honestly, but the chance of a bounce from this point without some other variant of concern on the horizon is minuscule. SA didn't bounce. UK is still in rapid remission. It's done. If The Science ™ can't see that trend, the CDC is pretty useless.
" the CDC is pretty useless"
Was that ever even in question?
The death numbers include a whole lot of people who are dying from the complications of the spike protein. The heart attacks, strokes, aneurysms, clots..... and those people are 30-65 and many without any comorbidity.
Ask the life insurers for the real numbers! People are going to be lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks.
40% increase in younger mortality. It's nuts.
My guess is March 1 as the State of the Union.
oh Elvis... that's following the Political Science. Nice call.
Given omicron's relatively mild effects, my symptoms might have been about the same even if I had not been triply vaccinated,…..
Their best safeguard is vaccination, which dramatically reduces the risk of severe symptoms.
Talking out both sides of your mouth here.
Not really. By far the most likely thing to happen when you drive drunk is that you get home without incident. Doesn't mean that sober isn't safer. When talking about random outcomes, you can't use one data point. Looking at records from several large hospital systems, we have literally hundreds of thousands of data points, and that shows that the likelihood of being admitted to the hospital and testing positive is far lower among the vaccinated population than the non-vaccinated population.
So, the numb nuts who wrote this faults Biden for not being psychic? WTF is he talking about?
Look doofus, the reason some in authority are loosening restrictions now isn't because they listened to Joe Rogan, but because like Biden and the CDC did last April, before the Delta variant and anti-vaxx mania took over way too many Americans, loosening restrictions make sense with declining stats for new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. This of course is counter to the MAGA/GOP accusations that Biden and others tasked with getting the nation through the pandemic somehow like forcing people to wear masks and get shots. Another ridiculous belief of the flat earth anti-vaxx crowd.
Some of us have been predicting virus activity since the summer of 2020, Joe. We told you the virus was going to sweep over the country during the winter and then dramatically drop as we move into warmer weather.
If these blue-state assholes REALLY thought that the rules were what made the difference, they wouldn't be lifting them now, just as they are (finally) working.
Elvis, they have not moved into warmer weather in the blue states relaxing restrictions - it's freaking mid February. Omicron hit them 1st - and as predicted by it's behavior in S Africa and by experts - then peaked quickly and then dropped quickly. This was preceded by the deadly Delta variant with little dip between, and so relaxing restrictions was not a smart move then either. The last time the CDC - and Biden - recommended easing restrictions was April of 2021, before Delta and just as the anti-vaxx nonsense was stroked by the GOP. They both had to soon reverse themselves.
Try to keep up.
"and so relaxing restrictions was not a smart move then either."
Joe is trafficking in misinformation. Johns Hopkins' meta analysis of these restrictions found that they had no effect. Dr Vinay Prasad has published a meta analysis of masking restrictions and concluded that they have had little to no impact. Joe is trafficking in untruths. He is foolish and should be laughed out of the room.
"Joe is trafficking in untruths"
No, hes a fucking two faced LIAR.
Most POTUS' in the modern age are like that. We don't exactly elect the best and brightest. And then, we actually expect something from them. So, they deliver...something, anything..... lest they be thought not to be smart.
Americans have fallen in love with the POTUS as benevolent dictator theory. A Goldwater or Reagan couldn't get elected today even if the ballot boxes were stuffed. People want someone to tell them what to do.
LOL the 2021 wave didn't start until the summer in the sunbelt -- once again exactly as we predicted.
It's not warmer in mid February than it is in mid December? Is that what you're going to go with?
another lefty fooled by / trafficking in misinformation.
You can thank the MSM that you are so ignorant as to whats really going on
Masking didn't work, social distancing didn't work, lock downs didn't work, closing schools didn't work and the so called vaxx didn't work.
Two weeks to flatten the curve didn't work.
What did happen is that so many people lost their jobs and many lost their businesses because of the lock downs.Tens of thousands of small businesses are now shuttered for good. Done, finished. people whose hopes and reams and life savings smashed to pieces.,
A collapsed supply chain that is only going to worsen. If you think the shelves are empty now, just wait a few more months. new cars setting in lots needing parts from China, only China is locked down and container ships are backed up off the coast of Long beach that will take months to clear away.
The government's answer was more of the same. And when millions became unemployed the government once again interfered and began handing out money like candy. The CDC acted completely out of any constitutional authority and pronounced a moratorium on rents which added more pressure to landlords. Then there's the inflation from adding trillions to the debt in handing out cash to people the government already put out of work by fiat.
The truth is most of the problems, 90%, have been caused by the government. The government does not fix things, it only creates worsening situations.
We're from the government and we're here to help!
Only if the restrictions fucking worked would you have a point, but the science is increasingly showing none of the fucking restrictions did a fucking thing.
Dems are desperate to end the restrictions because they're an electoral albatross now. But they have to get the teachers' unions on board first. So figure sometime after the school year ends and before the midterms. Psychic powers not needed.
CE, they are already ending restrictions, try to keep up. You forget that most American adults are vaccinated and we've had it with the knuckle dragging "freedom" freaks for dragging this out by their act.
Lol. No they haven't. In about half the states where governors ended mask mandates they were simply picked up by counties or school superintendents.
Try to keep up.
Yep that is what is going on here.
Most the blue states that have ended restrictions only lifted restrictions on adults but left them in place for kids. This is exactly backwards if you are following the fucking science.
Fuck you, Joe. Almost no one here is anti-vaccine and you fucking know it.
Zeb, if you spend all your posts criticizing efforts to get more people vaccinated, even if you are, you're anti-vax. They are a fucking miracle of modern science which is the only effective tool we have, and it is a very effective one at that. Nit picking BS about ":Fauci said this .... Fauci said that...." is irrelevant and read as an excuse by the unvaccinated to indulge their stupid and primitive behavior.
No, being opposed to authoritarian mandates and considering that maybe vaccinating everyone as fast as possible isn't always a great idea is not being "anti-vax". Not by any reasonable definition. Until basically a year ago "anti-vax" referred to a specific group who oppose pretty much all childhood vaccinations. It has been expanded to refer to anyone who questions mandated vaccination or wants to be a bit more cautious about rolling out these particular vaccines. And that is really nothing more than a slander. There are serious questions here. Not least about the wisdom of vaccinating children. The vaccines do cause harm to some subset of the people who take it. And that means people need to be informed and their decisions need to be respected. To force or cajole anyone into taking any medical treatment is immoral and disgusting.
"being opposed to authoritarian mandates and considering that maybe vaccinating everyone as fast as possible isn't always a great idea is not being "anti-vax". Not by any reasonable definition"
Someone like JF doesn't perceive the difference. It is more like "this is what I believe, and you have to believe and do it too" trumps any consideration of concerns about authoritarian [and illegal] mandates and loss of liberty. They don't care, and authority is fucking fantastic when they see it directed at anyone they do not like or agree with.
COVID* has been nothing less than a watershed for such assholes, and they will not relinquish it willingly.
* I work in healthcare and was among the first to willingly choose the vaccine; I believe in its efficacy [though it is by no means as effective as is the smallpox and polio vaccines, it mostly serves to mitigate, not prevent] but it should be a personal choice, not something you are berated or forced into.
To which the likes of JF will respond "ok good for you, now get on the everyone HAS to bandwagon or you're anti vax"
Hitler did.
Possible side effects include...........................
Do people who oppose compulsory education oppose all education?
Do people who oppose government farms not want people to eat?
Opposing vaccine mandates isn't anti-vax. It's anti-coercion.
Do people who oppose sex slavery not want humans to reproduce?
Saying that vaccines should be prioritized for the most at risk, and never be mandated is fucking anti-vax in your world?
As I stated above here, Biden's not wrong. If you believe masks work, if you believe lockdowns work, if you believe social distancing works, if you believe remote learning worked, if you believe _____________________ worked, then this early phase of the dip is too early to tell if we can stop doing ________________.
the problem is ________________ didn't work. So that throws a wrench into the works... if you will.
Right. They are like primitives tossing virgins into the volcano at this point. None of their shit makes any sense. There is not even a reasonable scientifically credible mechanism to justify these policies at this point. For example, show me the scientific mechanism that makes masks needed at schools but not sitting at a bar? There is no such mechanism possible unless it somehow includes faith and spaghetti monsters.
They don't need to justify it anymore. Just shut up and do what you're told.
--------
Regular people wonder why there’s such a huge disparity in the government’s approach to the different protests. (The answer, of course, is politics. Always.) So in this case, the government will call protestors names. They will threaten protestors with arrest and loss of livelihood. They will monitor bank accounts. They will blame Americans! What they won’t do is talk to the protestors, lift the restrictions that aren’t doing any good anyway, or even set out a logical argument for the continuation of said restrictions. That stuff doesn’t MATTER anymore. You will do what we say because we tell you to. (Spoken in libertarian circles as “Fuck you, that’s why”) Authoritarians gonna authoritarian, and so that’s what Justin does. The mask is off.
It's really amazing to watch. Just look at our local avatar of the spirit of Haight-Ashbury repeating the magic words to himself ad nauseum. He even broke out the classic "it's the dirty unvaccinated that are driving cases!" canard that hasn't been true since at least August. Dude's like three weeks of reality mugging from going full Hihn.
They are like primitives tossing virgins into the volcano at this point.
There are not enough volcanos for all the virgins they are willing to sacrifice.
Reminds me of the old (sexist) joke about the primitive (racist) tribal elder reporting to the king. "Sir, we have to postpone the parade of the virgins this year. One of them has a cold, and the other won't parade alone."
Show me the scientific mechanism that says me sitting at the table, unmasked while talking to the masked waitress works or is reasonable in any dimension.
If we were fighting a virus that transmits by droplets then I would think this makes some level of sense, as by definition, droplets are influenced by gravity and thus unlikely to waft up the two feet that would be necessary to infect the waiter. On the other hand, the waiter is talking down to you and thus far more likely to blow droplets in your face. The cotton mask isn't necessarily great at filtering (though droplets are bigger, so at least it has a chance) but as any glasses wearer can tell you, a cotton mask does a great job of redirecting your exhales from in front of you to above and below you, where it is unlikely to hit someone else's face.
The inconvenient truth that COVID spreads via aerosols instead of droplets does not appear to have discouraged public health officials from their tireless efforts to fight droplet transmission (nor has it encouraged them to study recommendations that could plausibly cut down on aerosol transmission). Solving the wrong problem feels very on-brand for the government.
Diane, masks work - see multiple lab tests and use common sense - to minimize transmission, as do social distancing and lockdowns. I don't "believe" that, I/we know that.
What works best is vaccines, as data shows, so I know that too: In both red and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaccinated. End of story.
Just ignore all the data from the real world and all the RCTs.
Zeb, here's from data from the real world:
In both red and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaccinated. What else is there to know?
I was responding to the "masks work" part.
Shift the goal posts much? Also, the driven by the unvaccinated isn't nearly as true as you stated.
What does red & blue states have to do with it? Is the virus politically selective?
Do you "know" that too?
Lab tests with a perfect seal and only a small straw for air circulation.
Now look at real world data Joe.
Jesse, "real world" studies include myriad factors like age, vaccinated, etc, holidays, you name it. Labs show they do what you'd expect - they restrict your exhaling which is dispersed within a smaller range. Combined with social distancing, what do you think is going to happen? let me know when you're ready for the answer.
You really need a study for that? How about a study on whether getting hit by a Mack truck is bad for your health?
The lab studies are garbage. Why that is has been explained to you many times already.
Yes, if we were all sealed in plastic boxes with N95 mask material over all of the openings that allow air exchange, we probably wouldn't catch many respiratory viruses.
If it doesn't work in the real world, it doesn't work. Laboratory studies are good for proof of concept but not for implementation. Any scientist will tell you that if it fails real world testing, lab testing is worth shit.
In both red and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaccinated. End of story.
Except the story is, and continues to be, a fine work of fiction.
The cases, hospitalizations and deaths 'with' COVID are driven by the need to keep the alarmist story alive. The deaths 'from' COVID, a smaller number, are driven by age, frailty, obesity and co-morbidities. That's why the powers that be will bring all of the mandates and mask nonsense to a close, declare it survivable now and we are free to go on with our lives until they declare the next, nonsensical crisis.
Listen to the news closely, Joe. No broadcaster ever says the hospitals are filling to near capacity exclusively with Covid peeps. It is always, cases are X, hospitalizations are Y, unvacccinated are Z. So if i go to the hospital for a broken leg, test positive with a quickie PCR test and am unvaccinated, what am I. I am a positive Covid patient that is unvaccinated and occupying a hospital bed. All true, but also a skewed account of my need to be in the hospital.
Here's the breakdown:
1. Deaths from Covid running rampant. Revealed - testing everyone leads to many Covid positive patients.
2. Vaccination with keep Covid away - not the case once we ramped up the vaccines and discovered the 'breakthrough' cases. Another nice, fictional rendition of - the stuff aint workin'.
3. The vax will keep you from spreading the virus. Not the case we come to learn.
4. Having the vax will keep the symptoms down. Nope.
5. The vax will keep you from severe symptoms and from dying. Also, no longer true. Even the vaxxed are dying sometimes.
6. The masks are working too. Nope.
7. Everybody, vaxxed and unvaxxed is catching the Vid, going to the hospital sometimes and dying. End of story.
The curtain has been pulled back, Joseph, and Fauci is the clown manipulating the controls to play the big, scary all knowing OZ movie to the world. The facade is over.
Your dear leaders will re-grant you your freedom shortly.
4. Having the vax will keep the symptoms down. Nope.
5. The vax will keep you from severe symptoms and from dying. Also, no longer true. Even the vaxxed are dying sometimes.
I would caution you here on these points. There's pretty clear data that shows that hospitalizations were reduce by having the vaccine. It went from a very low chance to a very, very low chance. Same thing with dying. It goes from a very very low chance to a very, very, very low chance. I don't think anyone can dispute that.
Unvaccinated are driving new cases:
"As of January 8, 2022, during Omicron predominance, COVID-19 incidence and hospitalization rates in Los Angeles County among unvaccinated persons were 3.6 and 23.0 times, respectively, those of fully vaccinated persons with a booster, and 2.0 and 5.3 times, respectively, those among fully vaccinated persons without a booster. During both Delta and Omicron predominance, incidence and hospitalization rates were highest among unvaccinated persons and lowest among vaccinated persons with a booster."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7105e1.htm
Josey—WHOOSH, right over Joe's head.
Mark Twain had a soft spot in his heart for Bill Gannon's partner Joe when he said,
There are lies; damn lies and then there are statistics.
Yeah... that went RIGHT over his head. 23xnearly nothing is 23x nothing./
Joseph. You should try reading the studies conclusion instead of just posting the link. Particularly the limitations of the study at the end. This one struck me as interesting:
Fourth, COVID-19–associated hospitalizations were determined based on hospital admission and SARS-CoV-2 test dates alone, potentially leading to the inclusion of incidental positive SARS-CoV-2 test results in patients whose hospitalizations were not caused by COVID-19.
Still sticking with the 'great unvaxxed' as the root cause of all things Covid?
Something with a range as wide as 3.6 to 23 times larger is bullshit. It has way to broad a range and way to high a margin of error to draw any inferences from. Have you ever taken a fucking statistics course?
Where's/what's the control group? Without it, it isn't verifiable.
How many deaths attributed to Covid would have occurred anyway due to other causes?
Just look at what ages people are dying with COVID, and with what other ailments. For most of them, death was probably no more than a year or two off. A meaningful measure of how deadly a disease is has to look at YEARS of life lost, not just numbers of lives lost.
Thanks, yup. I am not disputing the vax has an effect, just not the effect promised and for some, vaxxed or unvaxxed, it doesn't save them in the end. The question is still was it ever really needed to the degree it was administered? Unfortunately the stats are so diluted and the narrative so prevalent that it is hard to believe any information dispersed these days.
Those lab studies where a particle engineer stuck two masks over a plastic tube and blew air through them have no bearing on whether they work in the real world, and REAL scientists laughed at those studies. You need a large, RCT to know if they worked. The closest thing we have was the CDC study that... showed surgical masks don't work. I won't quote and link the study here because I've done it so many times, it's not worth my time.
The next part of the mistake you're making is WHICH masks work. N95 masks probably work-- if used correctly and in a clinical setting. Surgical and cloth masks do not.
To leave the poor old CDC alone for a change:
A randomized trial of face masks involving about 7,700 hajj participants in Mecca had less promising results. At the end of the study, which was reported in The Lancet last year, the subjects who received masks—most of whom used them intermittently or not at all—were just as likely to have viral respiratory infections as those who did not. Last year was 2019; most people in C19 panicked 2020 wear their mask intermittently, or just plain wrong like over their mouth only, or hanging around their neck.
Saw a picture of a USAF band member playing the french horn yesterday on Facebook. She had on some stupid mask that barely covered her nose and her chin but had a big hole right over her mouth so she could play her instrument. I was what the fuck is that good for, it isn't even good optics.
"or just plain wrong like over their mouth only, or hanging around their neck"
Or, like all the so smart laborers I see at Home Depot wearing them like chin straps.
N95 masks probably work-- if used correctly
Just want to emphasize something.
Specifically, the probably work TO PROTECT THE WEARER. This is an important thing to specify. N95s are not meant to protect other from wearer. They're meant to protect the wearer from others and even the ginned up hokum numbers the CDC pointed to are still reporting efficacy for protection TO the wearer.
FALSE :
" The closest thing we have was the CDC study that... showed surgical masks don't work"
BOTH CDC and NIH publised tests on N95 masks showing they fail 5- 100 % of the time.
Googles buried the links.
" porosity of N95 masks"
"Diane, masks work - see multiple lab tests and use common sense - to minimize transmission, as do social distancing and lockdowns."
We know for a fact that this is not true. We have known for at least a year that it is not true (despite the repeated bullshit from people like you.) Here is an actual doctor summing up the science:
https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/dishonesty-about-masking-kids-results?r=2musx
When you were insisting that masking would stop the spread, you were wrong. When you were insisting that vaccinations would stop people from getting sick, or transmitting the virus, you were wrong. Hell, you couldn't even properly articulate the definition of vaccine efficacy.
If you want people to listen to you, perhaps you should try owning up to just how wrong you have been, consistently and clearly for months. We all remember. Your posts are all out there, easy for people to link to. It makes you look foolish to insist otherwise.
Hell, you couldn't even properly articulate the definition of vaccine efficacy.
Very effective. Highly effective. Even more effective than we thought. Highly effective.
And safe!, don’t forget safe! Super safe! and effective! No downsides!
so apparently simple math equations are hard for joe. the virus is 5 microns and the masks are no better than 20 microns. this is why 2 years ago we all knew that masks are bs.
The only ones who believe all that government propaganda are low IQ brainwashed victims of public education.
About 80% to 90% of the population I might guess.
We're an ignorant, celebrity obsessed society who are unable to do basic math. Let alone understand statistics.
So, we look up to the best looking and talking salesman and follow their sooth saying ways.
Joe is sounding more shrill by the day.
"loosening restrictions make sense with declining stats for new cases,"
I sure am glad to see you tell the truth for once. You are correct that your Dear Leaders aren't using science to guide them. They just see numbers increasing and lockdown, despite the fact that they don't work. Then when the numbers go back down, they cry havoc and let slip the masks...except for children.
So maybe rather than complaining to us, you should go tell your Dear Leaders to stop making you look foolish having to run cover for their idiocy. They might listen to you.
'm sorry Overt, but your post makes no sense. I'd love to knee cap you again, but I can't make my way through that nonsense.
Try again?
It's quite simple. Your Dear Leaders are imposing restrictions when COVID numbers go up, and decreasing them when numbers go down. Not because they actually work, but just because they (like you) are crypto-religious fanatics. The science has been clear that these Non Pharmaceutical Interventions have little or no impact on the spread of the virus. c.f. Johns Hopkins meta analysis.
Does that make sense?
But they didn't in previous drops. They did when they got very low months later. They didn't remove restrictions during the Jan 2021 drop, not until the summer did they very VERY briefly remove mask restrictions, only to reinstate them literally like three weeks later. This drop is like literally a week old and everyone is shrieking that COVID is over. Why is it over with a light 7 day dip? What's the scientism for that?
Diane, the "drop" is in blue states that were the 1st to get the Omicron surge and in those locations - as predicted - it has dropped like a rock. Nationally - as Biden and Fauci just said, it is probably premature. Get it, or you want to nitpick on timing, now that it is clear the CDC and Biden have been correct to emphasize vaccines since we've had them.
That doesn't even make sense. First, blue states weren't among the first to get Omicron. Second most red states don't have any restrictions to drop, therefore the only states that can drop restrictions are blue states, and they aren't dropping restrictions universally, in most the blue states that have dropped restrictions they continue to have restrictions for the least at risk group, children.
Uh, what would you expect them to do you moron? Of course they ease restrictions when the threat decreases and increase them when the threat increases. Duhhh.
Now, the most critical action is to get more people vaccinated, since in both red and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaccinated. What else is there to know? Ready to help get everyone vaccinated?
How about never putting in place useless restrictions in the first place? The shit they tried had never been used before because all the science up till 2020 contradicted it. And once again the science is proving that the restrictions were useless, in fact not only useless but harmful.
You have never knee capped anyone. You have however, shown time and time again how scientifically illiterate you are.
Brawn over brains.
Didn't work? Just get a bigger hammer.
(I've been working on cars my whole life and still encounter Neanderthals who fall back to more force whenever something isn't going the way they want it to.)
I often wonder what it would be like to be as dumb as Joe Friday. It must be hard to bumble through life with such a low intelligence. It's really amazing to watch.
Here you go Wood, struggle with this fact or run and hide - your choice.
In both red and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaccinated.
Hospitalization and death to some extent. It's absolutely not true for new cases.
It absolutely is Zeb. Look it up.
Use reports not from last year Joe.
Perhaps if you think that "driven by" means that there are slightly fewer cases among the vaccinated. But that isn't even true everywhere.
Your proof above had such a wide margin of error that no self respecting scientist would ever use it as proof of anything. You also don't know what being driven by means. You are basically regurgitating talking points with no understanding of the data. It is scientism not scientific.
This is the generation of 30 second soundbites. No need to think for oneself.
Unlike Scotland.
https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11223/22-01-19-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf
From Chuck's link:
"In the last week from 08 January to 14 January 2022, in an age-standardised population, the rate of acute COVID-19 related hospital admissions in individuals that received a booster or third dose of a COVID-19 vaccine was between 2.3 to 3.9 times lower than in individuals who are unvaccinated or have only received one or two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine "
Fuck off and die liar.
Dude, it's your link.
Take the median of those numbers, approximately 3.3. That means 33% of the cases are fully vaccinated. That is hardly proof that the unvaccinated are driving the rates. Learn to interpret the data you throw out.
In other words, 1/3 of the unvaccinated, if fully vaccinated could still get serious illness. That means you would still have at least half the cases you have today.
No it isnt Joe. It is a slight delta between the two populations. Ireland shows more of the vaccinated hospitalized.
I often wonder what it would be like to be as dumb as Joe Friday.
"I am so smart. I post at this online magazine called Reason. You should see all the responses I get."
So, Reason is just TikTok light?
Poor Joe. The boy is literally incapable of an idea all his own. Hence his parroting of all things full of shit.
The Phucko Knows
All your predictions and panic and mandates haven't done shit, yet you keep defending them. That is not the sign of someone following the science, that is the sign of someone following an ideology. Faith not knowledge.
At this point masking the kids is just the stick to get them vaxxed. Remember "Get vaxxed or wear a mask?"
We fell for it once. Are we going to subject the kids to it, too?
God I hope not. It is absolutely shocking and disgusting that they are still pushing for vaccinating kids.
The stick to get a population that has no business being vaccinated.
They absolutely do this here in CA. My kids are allowed to doff the mask during sports if they are vaccinated. If they are not vaccinated, they have to wear the mask.
That's fair. Rochelle Walensky said that if you get vaccinated you can neither catch nor spread the disease.
Later she said that also was untrue, and infection and transmission occur regardless of jab status.
^ why are your kids still in public school?
This is a decision I'm thankful I didn't have to make. Because despite what Nick Gillespie says, choosing to pull your kids out of public school isn't like going down to the pizza parlor down the street because you like the crust better.
No, it's not. It's more like going to the pizza parlor down the street because the other one is giving you poison pizza 🙂
You still have to pay for the original pizza. And the new pizza.
This. Not every town has a decent private school, or one that isn't heavy into a particular religion. We are fortunate to have choices in my area, and (unsurprisingly) the least proselytizing is the Catholic school. But they only run through eight grade.
And none of them are remotely cheap.
Homeschooling is great, but pretty much demands one full )or near full) time homemaker, so again is often a stretch.
Both made even worse now that the price of everyday living has gone parabolic.
7 y/o Granddaughter was just sent home from school yesterday due to reported Covid case on campus. She's allowed to return today, at parent's discretion, because she is vaccinated.
They require face masks on all kids.
No amount of assuring step daughter that risk of serious illness is miniscule for a seven year old. She just checks what CDC says.
She also has become obsessed with banning guns because that will "protect" her daughter from being slaughtered by a nut case "with a gun" at school.
In the meantime, her husband refuses to wear a seat belt because he doesn't like being confined and he'll never have an accident anyway.
That's the way of the world these days.
It is telling Pfizer withdrew their application for approval. Basically they couldn't show the vaccine had any effectiveness for kids under five (and they didn't show much effectiveness in the 5-12 yo range, despite the FDA approval, which was really politically driven). They wanted approval because they hypothesized that it would be more effective after a third dose. Given the higher risk of myocarditis in the young, and younger adults, especially males, they would have to show that the vaccine was far more effective than the data supports at this point. It is telling the low vaccination rates for children 5-12. Many parents, who are statistically more than likely vaccinated themselves, have elected not to have their kids vaccinated. I am fully vaccinated, my daughter, who turns 11 tomorrow is not, and she won't be based upon the data indicating effectiveness. Based upon the low risk of severe illness in her age group, no known underlying conditions, and the questionable effectiveness of the vaccine, I drew the conclusion that the vaccine, and the small but real possibility of side effects, didn't warrant it, and I normally make sure all my kids are fully vaccinated with recommended vaccines. I also vaccinate all my animals, including my livestock, as a precaution. So, I am hardly anti-vaccine.
At this point, I wouldn't hold my breath on approval in kids under 5. The CDC/FDA caught quite a bit of flack over how the ignored protocol in the approval of the vaccine for 5-12 yo, and based upon the preliminary data for the approval for under 5, and the questionable hypothesis that the boosted will improve the data, unless the completely ignore long established protocols, approval shouldn't be granted unless boosters show a marked increase in effectiveness.
Every drug is supposed to be weighed on a risk benefit scale. This is how incredibly toxic chemotherapy agents justify their existence - otherwise fatal diseases justifying the harm.
When there is effectively zero risk there will be effectively zero justification for approval.
Effectiveness must always outweigh risk. I think you meant to say in your last sentence "When there is effectively zero benefits there will be effectively zero justification for approval."
i didn't fall for it. my policy since 1/20 has been "fuck off".
How are we still talking about masks but not the many things that people can do to mitigate the seriousness of an infection.
How are we not talking about vitamin D all the time instead? Some pretty striking research on vitamin D levels and covid. People with a serious definciency of D are 14x more likely to have severe outcomes than people with good vitamin D. 10x more likely to die. That's huge. Way more than even serious comorbidities. A very small proportion of those who died or needed ICU treatment had healthy levels of vitamin D.
If people had been told they should eat better, take vitamin D supplements, exercise and get some sun rather than "hide in your house until you are too sick to breathe", how many lives might have been saved?
Vitamin D is a fever dream of White Supremacists. It's the horse paste of preventative measures.
Those crazy Nazis at WebMD and in Israel: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220208/vitamin-d-deficiency-tied-to-severe-covid
Oh right, like we're gonna take health advice from the capitalist Jewry. Besides, Israel has this problem solved by airdropping boosters 24x7.
LOL A+ post
Won't you think of the poor higher melaninated people, whose darker pigment makes vitamin D production in low sunlight seasons, more difficult.
And don't forget the lactose intolerant who can't consume dairy, the primary source of dietary vitamin D in developed countries.
The government can afford to send free money, free antigen tests, etc. But cannot afford to send vitamin D.
Vitamin D is cheap, how will Nancy Pelosi's husband make millions off of investments that way?
Please don't rub salt in the wound.
There aren't many things that get my goat when it comes to politics, but Pelosi et. al. just stick in my craw.
I was born in SF and live near there now. That self righteous, crooked hag is as bad as the TDS people say Trump was.
If I see one more example of "good for thee but not for me" from her I'm just going to..........................................
On a serious note, I wonder if this somehow plays into the low rates seen in kids. Most kids drink more milk than adults, especially with school lunches, and most milk in developed countries is fortified with vitamin D (and it is already a good natural source of vitamin D to begin with).
Humans are the only species to drink the milk of another species.
Evolutionary survival? Or just another weird human trait?
Hundred days, not forever.
"epidemiologist Vinay Prasad notes. "According to the same study, the risk of death is 3 in 1 million, with no deaths reported in the over-5 age group. These risks are astonishingly low.""
Prasad has also reviewed the science and found good evidence that the risk to healthy, male children, of myocarditis is actually higher from the vaccine than from covid.
https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/uk-now-reports-myocarditis-stratified
"Yes, sorry to break it to you, vaccines can have risks of myocarditis EXCEEDING risks of myocarditis from infection. Pls stop saying otherwise."
They have been wrong about lockdowns, masking, and vaxxing. Consistently. And they are using their incorrect science to justify putting kids at risk. It is sick and they need to be stopped.
Who the fuck are these people worried about taking their 5 year olds out into the world unvaccinated?
paranoid Leftists.
Its fun being afraid. It gives brain dead people with no lives something to do while Identitfying with propaganda mongerers on TV. That makes them feel connected.
If vaccinated and later infected, they are exposed to both.
Yeah, vaccine or covid isn't an either/or proposition. We've know that for a long time.
Yeah Zeb, and same can be said for dancing with an umbrella in open field during a lightning storm and getting hit by it. Difference is you won't take anyone else with you with that similar piece of total idiocy.
Jab does not prevent infection and transmission you misinformation peddling shill.
So your solution is to vaccinated kids, despite the low efficacy of the vaccine in kids, and the increased risk of myocarditis, in some stupid attempt to reduce transmission, despite the vaccine not being shown to meaningfully reduce transmission (viral loads in the nasopharyngeal airway are similar)? So, in essence you want to risk kids health, to protect adults who are far more at risk than kids?
Dr. Prasad has been extremely redpilled recently. I think he's meeting pushback from political sciencism.
What a fucking douche.
Like he has any clue whatsoever.
Dotard doesn't know much about much....
Yeah who cares if kids infect grandma. Handling the most infectious disease we've ever seen is all about thinking about one person. And why can't Biden tell us in advance exactly when evolution will hit us with the next variant
Did you miss where vaccinated people can spread it to grandma just about as well as the unvaccinated? And it is not the most infectious disease ever by a long shot.
And fuck off with the "thinking about one person" bullshit. It's not selfishness. My life has been fine through all of this. I see my friends, I go do things if I want to. Not a huge effect on my every day life. I care about this stuff exactly because I care about other people. What has been done to the working class and to children through all of this is absolutely reprehensible and has caused more harm than the virus and will continue to do so for years.
So please go fuck yourself. It's people like you who have done enormous harm to everyone, not the least those least able to protect themselves, and are willing to sacrifice the future of children to enact policies that have utterly failed to protect the grandmas you claim to care so much about.
Fuck. You. Anyone still supporting this shit is either completely brainwashed or stupid or just plain evil.
Zeb, since the unvaxxed catch covid more easily than the vaxxed and therefore in greater numbers, and since you have to catch it to spread it, the unvaxxed spread it more frequently than the vaxxed.
This is not difficult. Why are you struggling with it?
Now, tell all these people you claim to care for to get their fucking shot and be careful around those they know are not vaccinated.
Right, and I keep insisting, based on this suspect logic, then only the unvaxxed need to worry about the unvaxxed. But the vaxxed are terrified of the unvaxxed because... oh wait, here we go again.
Because we can all get it, vaxxed and unvaxxed Diane, with the latter much more likely to get it. But if the vaxxed get it, aside from a much less though still possible trip to the hospital, they will have to self quarantine for days. Who wants to do that, and WTF is wrong with you?
What's amazing is the logical corner the Branch Covidians have painted themselves into. They know the vaccine isn't effective in stopping infection or spread. So as long as there's one unvaccinated human being on the planet, that's causing the failure of the entire system.
That's now how vaccines work. Or worked prior to 2021.
Diane you twit, the unvaccinated are driving new cases in both blue and red states. You could not be more wrong and your conclusion, based on BS is BS.
Ever since not-fully-boosted became the unvaxxed, sure.
When you break off actually unjabbed from short-a-booster it turns out you're full of shit.
They aren't. As I showed above, 1/3 of cases are vaccinated. So even if everyone was vaccinated, 1/3 of the currently unvaccinated are statistically likely to also be infected. That means the rates of infection would be north of 50% of current rates. This destroys the being driven by the unvaccinated narrative. It is being driven by a highly contagious variant that overcomes vaccinations at a fairly high rate.
Joey want another cracker? Lies, lies and more lies from that propaganda filled pie hole of yours. EVER vaccinated person on the planet has gotten or will soon get this year's flu. And stop calling it a vaccine u f-ing clown show. Even the local pharmacy is changing thier signs over to "Get your free mRNA shot here". How about u Google WHAT that IS little Joey? Yes... I know u already know. U r literally a human embarrassment.
The Phucko Knows
He's just a Biden/Dem troll looking to boost results in the mid-terms.
Actually it hasn't been shown that unvaccinated catch it more than vaccinated. What it has been shown is that vaccinated have less severe symptoms. People who aren't symptomatic are likely not to get tested. That doesn't mean they haven't caught it, and can still spread it. In fact the less severe symptoms may result in more silent spreaders.
the most infectious disease we've ever seen
Recency bias FTL. Or maybe some other statistical confusion.
"Yeah who cares if kids infect grandma. "
Mr Murphy wants to saddle kids with the trauma of thinking that they killed grandma. What psychopaths these people have become.
Just for the benefit of the thread, Grandma is going to come in contact with that virus whether the kids mask at school or not. Grandma should protect herself from it, just as she protects herself from the flu and shingles. For her, that probably means vaccination. Any grandparent insisting that kids stick needles in their arms for the grandparent's benefit is not only unscientific, but selfish on top of it all.
Wait! My Grandma got run over by a reindeer. So, nothing to worry about.
Um, masks don't protect the kids, they protect other people. Wearing a mask in school doesn't protect grandma. That's The Science.
Your mask protects me, my mask protects you, but your mask doesn't protect you and my mask doesn't protect me.
One way valveification theory of masking.
You are mostly correct about masks protecting others, not the wearer - you're welcome! - but your kid could catch it from a kid from a carrier family if masks are not enforced by the school and then give it to his Grandma with the walker who lives in the front bedroom.
Prove it Friday.
The Phucko Knows
Masks have only been proven effective in laboratory tests, using questionable methodology for testing. They are a complete failure in real world testing, ergo the science states they are worthless.
The solution is obvious—to protect yourself from others, just wear your mask inside out.
Reversing it bi-hourly.
fuck you, drive- by.
Grandma is the most likely to be fully vaccinated, i.e. the kids aren't that likely to kill Grandma. Unless you are stating the vaccine is ineffective? Which in about a 1/3 of cases is true. But the data shows masks don't work under real world conditions, and the vaccine is only marginally effective in children 5-18, and not effective according to Pfizer's FDA application in under 5.
Additionally, this isn't even close to the most infective virus ever, nor deadly. Omicron fatality rate is not to much higher than seasonal influenza.
So, basically you entire post is scientifically illiterate.
jones, you're the typical leftist who lack any and all critical thinking skills. how do you get thru life without a mommy telling you what to do? i'm 62 and 8 days into my omicron experience, of course i don't have the covid injections. i'm really happy that i got it. i now have natural immunity and am totally good to go. i'm not well yet, but probably in about 3 days i will be. i have an 85 year old mother. ok, here's where in critical thinking skills come in. i won't/don't go visit her until i test negative. i also won't/don't go out in public because i don't want to spread it. apparently this kind of logic can't be applied by in the scenario with the kids.
bottom line is that leftists hate personal responsibility and want mommy government to regulate every minutia of their life.
Let's explicitly identify how stupid and unscientific are President Biden's comments.
- "I think it's probably premature, but it's a tough call." I thought you were following the science. It isn't a tough call at all. Science deals in objective facts. They should have DEFINED that line a long time ago.
- "Every day that goes by, children are more protected," Masks for children are unnecessary, unscientific and stupid. Children don't spread the virus to adults, it's the reverse. They aren't at risk to getting seriously ill themselves [see stats in article], and virtually every study has found cloth masks to be ineffective--especially with children. That's what the science says.
- Biden suggested that such decisions depend partly on "whether the omicron variant continues to dive." Everywhere in the world where Omicron has preceded us Omicron has had a quick spike and then fallen off a few weeks later and that is already happening in the U.S. So, there is NO SCIENTIFIC BASIS to expect a second surge of Omicron. It's literally never happened!
"That's what the science says."
And to the extent that the "science" may be unclear, Biden has had over a year with one of the (if not THE) largest public health apparatuses in the world to get better science. The fact that any of this shit is still ambiguous is yet another indictment of his competence.
Doofus, the issue is timing and the course of the pandemic. He's not a fucking wizard and no one knows with certainty what and when and if another variant may come around the corner.
WTF is wrong with you?
Wow dude... U actually think Biden is capable of a thought process. AGAIN!! U prove what a f-ing dimbass u r.
The Phucko Knows
Funny how a comment board on an obscure faux-Libertarian rag managed to.
The timing was in March of 2020, based upon all previous scientific knowledge related to respiratory illnesses, and the age related data. And the current science is demonstrating that the previous science was correct, that all the mitigation restrictions applied were almost completely useless and in most cases did more harm than good.
Based upon what we know about prior coronaviruses, there evolution, and the seasonality of outbreaks, modeling when new variants will develop, spread and cause spikes isn't difficult. In fact COVID has followed the models of previous coronaviruses with a high degree of accuracy.
And with omicron a huge number of people got infected. Many probably didn't even notice. I'm still holding out some hope that it will be basically the natural vaccine.
We agree on that Zeb.
Since many didn't show symptoms, and asymptomatic cases are least likely to get tested, and vaccinated show the least symptoms, while having similar virus loads in the nasopharyngeal airway as unvaccinated, why do you keep saying the unvaccinated are the most likely to catch it? We can't know how likely it is to catch the virus in regards to vaccination status, based upon current data, as that data is based upon testing data. All we can conclude is that unvaccinated are more likely to have severe enough symptoms to voluntarily get tested.
Who cares what Biden says - he is an idiot and a liar. Why debate it?
Women hoping for a non-Nazi on the Supreme Court are keenly interested in what Biden is about to say.
>>What about vaccination rates?
now it is known vaccines are ineffective why do rates matter?
Everyone wants some answer other than "life has risks, get over it" I guess.
I want to be an Olympic skeleton racer
Dillinger, have you been in a coma? You need to know this: In both red and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaccinated.
Get yours now and tell your friends.
I offered you mine in like August dude did you not take me up?
So not true.... U have to work in the pharmaceutical industry. No f-ing way u belive the bull that u blab. Please explain HOW a mRNA shot is a Covid-19 vaccine?
The Phucko Knows
Talk to me about my 99.98% survival rate again.
You keep saying it but your data doesn't support your supposition. The data you keep citing, doesn't support that the vaccinated are the driving factor, as it demonstrates that 1/3 of cases are vaccinated. Extrapolating from that data, if everyone who was unvaccinated, were vaccinated, you would still have a symptomatic case rate of around 50% of current rate. That would still be a spike, and regionally would stress medical facilities, as most facilities already operate at around 95-99% bed occupancy, even with no disease outbreak. The outbreak is being driven solely by a highly contagious virus that has a high probability of escaping vaccine protection.
Hey Joe (hat tip to Hendrix there) you keep using "blue" and "red" as some sort of meaningful data measure. When are you going to throw in "white" and start singing the national anthem as part of your arguments?
Do you even know what regression analysis is?
bc thats driving drug co. profits!
Stock Prices Matter
two of the vaccine companies are up and two are down I have no cursory idea how to read that lol.
Joey and his regime have lied to us and bullshitted us ever since they came into office. Nobody with two functioning brain cells can believe anything Joey and his gang of fools say.
HONK! HONK! HONK!
It's not going to dive any lower, but, more important, we shouldn't want it to dive. Omicron's the naturally attenuated strain that we want to pass around to immunize us for a lifetime or close to it.
I finally got Covid with Omicron and it was almost unnoticeable. 10/10 would recommend getting if you're healthy.
there having Covid parties to spread it.
Theyre called...
PUBLIC SCHOOL !
sn, i agree. i'm still getting over my omicron. the one symptom for me that has not been much fun is a raw hamburger sore throat. everything else was a non issue. i've been hoping to get because i wanted the natural immunity. nearly everyone in my family under 80 has got it and also never got the injections. guess what? we're all doing great.
What else does Joe think is premature?
Putting a mask on a person is like putting a mask on a car's tailpipe. We remove toxins through our breathing - when masked these get caught in the fabric and we end up breathing them in and out all day. Not to mention the industrial chemicals in the masks themselves, our own C02, bacteria, and the bacteria and pollution in the environment all around us.
There are also disturbing parallels between masking and losing your identity, your voice, and your sense of community. The building blocks of civilization - the comradery between men - is severely compromised with masking. You can see these effects all around you - the stitching the binds our society together is unraveling.
Not to mention that they only ever work at all when they are used properly by trained professionals. When they are not - when people constantly touch and adjust them all day long - they tend to be worse than nothing. Consider a COVID-19 infected shopper at Wal-Mart that straightens his/her mask before picking an item up off the shelf - considers it - and then returns it. That returned item is now covered with the virus - because the mask that person has been wearing over their mouth and nose is most certainly drenched with the virus - and that item will now likely infect anyone and everyone who comes in contact with it: other shoppers and Wal-Mart staff - they themselves who are also likely employing improper mask wearing. Now consider the average Joe's level of education on proper mask etiquette...
With an exception at the very end which you won't want to miss, the remainder of this article will be news and study clippings presented about mask safety presented without comment.
The masks are not safe or effective, all the evidence is here:
https://tritorch.com/Maskerade
It was funny to see Wal Mart greeters standing there trying to hand out masks.. and people here ignoring them.
Snivelling weak kneed frightened WM greeters with zero social skills.
THATS the first face shoppers should see! Great image.
Fuck Wal Mart
Premature demaskulation
..premature ejection...
I have to admit that I've been really depressed and angry over the last year, far more so than I was in 2020. But I've had a bit of a spring in my step as I'm watching the narrative really collapse in real time before my eyes. It's like playing one of those war simulators like Hell Let Loose or Arma III (never played that one) where your entire army or unit is completely surrounded or under siege and then suddenly, a few good plays are made, some critical pushes occur, the team finally gets its shit together, and enemy lines tangibly collapse before you and begin to scatter. It's quite satisfying.
lets see how pissed off Bidets base is for discovering how pissed ON theyve been.
I doubt that memory will fade fast considering the economic disaster thats been forced on them.
That and the latest proof Hitlery hacked Trumps computers should be a shoe in for.....
TRUMP 24.
Joe Fridays irrelevant on Tuesday
Go play in traffic.
Diane, your narrative collapsed last summer as data on new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths confirmed the effectiveness of vaccines (in both red and blue states, all those categories were and are driven by the unvaccinated). You've been trying to ignore this while picking nits about the people actually tasked with doing something about the pandemic, as if your job was to make that as difficult as possible. Now you confuse relaxing of restrictions for the 2nd time - 1st was in April of 2021 - due to the predicted rapid rise and fall of the latest variant as some sort of victory for your ignorant position. This position not only includes ignoring the facts on new cases, deaths, and ICU admissions but logical thought on how we react to a contagious disease and by claiming that not "stopping" it is the same as failure to resist and protect citizens. A 12 year old can figure that out.
When everyone but current on the lateat booster fad are regarded as unvaxxed...
So, since you have finally admitted the jab does not stop transmission or spread, we should be looking at all treatment options, yes?
Have you tried the horse paste? It's bland, and comes with no risk of heart attack. Vitamin D is great.
i recommend electro shock for Joe Friday..
Turn the juice up!
ECT works.
" stick to your 12 point maintenance program..."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EsYqPRIMzfM
does anyone remember that chant at ted bundy's execution?
Vaccines limit new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in both red and blue states - all the data shows this. Since you have to catch it to spread it, and news cases are minimized by vaccinations, so is spreading it.
Not sure why salted doesn't understand this easy fact.
Limit new cases based solely on voluntary testing. People with no symptoms or mild symptoms, but who remain infected, and carry similar viral loads are the least likely to take voluntary testing. Therefore, you can't make any inference based upon voluntary testing. You are making an unwarranted assumption.
Sullum identifies an endemic problem. Many explain away crashes by waving at "overspeculation," yet when's the last time you saw underspeculation? Premature is likewise suspicious. One antonym might be postmature, but that would refer more easily to the creaky geezers dotage parties have lately been running against candidates like Gary and Jo.
Are you ready for 4 boosters a year?
CDC is noting a huge falloff in efficacy from the jab, but this is good news for their portfolios!
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7107e2.htm
Except, oh wait, Moderna's CEO dumped $400m of his stock and Pfizer is backpedaling on jabs for <5yrs. Heart attacks in kids are awfully hard to explain away.
Fed: "Oh snap, we can't have 4 boosters a year - we just advised spacing the jab out more to avoid myocarditis. Hm, better bury this data and not look further."
https://www.acsh.org/news/2022/02/11/manufacturers-fda-others-not-adequately-addressing-cardiovascular-covid-19-vaccine-risks-16126
Any relation between blood clots and improper injection techniques?
Most Ive sern do not aspirate and the vials CLEARLY say "IM only"
Considering the clusterfuckerly nature of this disaster so far, naught surprises me.
That kind of mistake would be consistent with allowing untrained, incompetent people to practice medicine.
No moreso than usual?
The jab does not stay at the site of intra-muscular injection, as observed in several studies, and while I have read of abnormal clotting observed in vaccinated cadavers, it was not a widely substantiated or significant report. Yet?
you evaded the question.
Its not about where it goes.
Its about NOT initially injecting it into a blood vessel.
Aspiration guarantees that cant happen.
Aspiration is almost useless, as the chance of injecting a blood vessel with IM is infinitesimally low. In 17 years of nursing, two years of which was working giving vaccines to deploying soldiers, average case load over 150/day, with an average of three IM injections each soldier, and aspirating everytime, I never once aspirated blood. I have given literally hundreds of thousands of IM injections, in all ages from newborn to elderly. We do it more to make the patient feel comfortable than because of any actual risk.
I'm usually not sure what you're trying to say, to be completely honest. Could you please rephrase it?
I believe the vaccines are safe and effective. I believe the risk from getting multiple doses of the vaccine(s) is less than the risk from catching Covid. I also believe in freedom and everyone should make up their own mind about whether or not to wear a mask, get vaccinated, go to gatherings, go to work, etc.
Depends how many doses you get. The risk for adverse reactions such as myocarditis increases with each subsequent dose. Additionally, the WHO predicts decreasing efficacy after the third shot and doesn't recommend more than three shots (despite some countries now calling for four shots). So, if the WHO is correct, then at some point, the risk of multiple shots is greater than the benefits.
I entirely disagree but respect your right to treat yourself as you feel is right.
Seriously though, do look into the myocarditis issues, at the least.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2788346
The only thing that needs to be prematurely retired is Biden. The reality is, he is retiring on his own. I seriously doubt he will make it to the summer, his faculties are degrading that fast.
He will reach the point where the rest of the White House and leftist news won't be able to cover up for old Joe. In reality the situation has already arrived.
His presidency has fallen and it can't get up.
Good morning!
Just a reminder that the overwhelming facts on the effectiveness of vaccines - in both red and blue states, new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are driven by the unvaxxed - means you can help do something about the pandemic by getting your shot and encouraging friends and neighbors to do the same.
Just a reminder, Joe has been refuted in every thread above so far, so now he's making a new one for his misinformation.
Maybe salted can link the post he thinks refutes this simple fact:
In both red and blue states, new cases of covid, hospitalizations, and deaths are being driven primarily by the unvaccinated. This is irrefutable as the conclusions that fact leads to: get your shot and encourage others to get theirs. The rest is jacking off, admittedly a popular activity by the regular posters here.
You keep making this statement, but as I have pointed out multiple times, it is based upon your misunderstanding of the data, and failure to extrapolate from that the implications.
Soldier, there is no understanding or analysis necessary for simple facts and this is one of those:
In both red and blue states, the unvaccinated are driving new cases of covid, hospitalizations, and deaths.
You're right in that you have no understanding of this.
Similar data have been reported by the UK. Vaccine effectiveness is still pretty high and hospitalizations and death primarily driven by unvaccinated.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1054071/vaccine-surveillance-report-week-6.pdf
" After a Pfizer booster (after either primary vaccination course), vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation started at around 90% dropping to around 75% after 10 to 14 weeks. After a Moderna booster (mRNA-1273) (after either primary vaccination course), vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation was 90 to 95% up to 9 weeks after vaccination."
Again, that data doesn't support the assumption that the outbreaks are being driven by the unvaccinated. What 90% decrease in the risk of hospitalization means is that you have a 90% less chance of needing to go to the hospital. Since the risk of hospitalization is already low for anyone without multiple co-morbidities, less than 1%, that isn't that impressive. It doesn't mean that vaccinated individuals are only 10% of hospitalizations. According to the data they are around 33% of hospitalizations.
Additionally, after 9-14 weeks, so as little as two and a half months, your risk of needing hospitalization increases by 25.2% if you are vaccinated.
Scroll up and answer, you illiterate cunt.
It's easy to say 'the unvaxxed' are the drivers when you include everyone not current on their booster on that list, you mendacious shill.
As I linked above, it's acknowledged the boosters are only of middling efficacy after three months, while the vaccine advisory panels explicitly recommended spacing the jab out for myocarditis risk.
And just because you consistently forget... 5.5% died of Covid alone. The rest had comorbidities - usually being fat.
Hey soldier, what happened to your argument that name calling indicated a weak argument?
As to your "point" - read harder. The not fully vaccinated still outperformed the unvaccinated for not being new cases.
Whoops, sorry soldier, that was salted thinking by repeating falsehoods already exposed, they will become true, and if especially you call your opponents names of things he hasn't experienced in much too long.
I feel your pain, loser.
Go get boosted.
Go get laid salted.
Married with kids, as you'd know if you ever bothered reading anything posted, rather than vomiting propoganda everywhere.
Here's something else for you to ignore.
https://rwmalonemd.substack.com/p/regarding-the-defense-medical-epidemiological
Joe Bidet grandstanding today:
""Every day that goes by, children are more protected," he said. "
Joe Bidet grandstanding last year :
"Ill do everything I can to undermine Texas' anti- abortion law so Abortion clinics can kill children."
Fucking PSYCHOPATH.
I dunno. Maybe a few more decades just to be safe.
Next up...
Biden takes credit for keeping Russia from invading Ukraine...
5..4..3..2..
Step back. Remember when Biden supposedly said Covid was over and the media won't let him forget it? Ya think that may have something to do with his vageries? Maybe the media should own up to its role in all this.
And while "protecting children" can be interpreted many ways there is one way that is of concern. If too many kids are sick with even just the sniffles and pass it on to teachers who get the sniffles we get absences. That is part of the equation.
And keep in mind that Biden doesn't have much power over schools anyway. So why does he need to tell us when exactly things should lift? The short answer is the obvious "it depends". In one county maybe it can lift but maybe in another they should continue masking for a nother month. Again, staffing is the main issue for most schools at this point. If staffing falls short the kids get a crappy education. So in that sense masking is protective.
Heraclitus, you wrote:
"So why does he (Biden) need to tell us when exactly things should lift? The short answer is the obvious "it depends". In one county maybe it can lift but maybe in another they should continue masking for another month."
That's pretty much exactly what he said Dude. What's the problem?
The problem is that none of the mitigation strategies have proven to be effective under real world conditions. Anyone who was familiar with the science on respiratory viruses prior to 2020 was aware that none of the mitigation strategies were warranted based upon over a century of scientific knowledge. The government however, went ahead and implemented useless strategies, that in most cases had no impact on case numbers or fatalities, while at the same time inflicting a great deal of secondary harm. And the current scientific research demonstrates we were correct in March of 2020, when we first stated the mitigation strategies would do nothing to slow or reduce spread, while inflicting secondary harm. The point is, that once again government diktat did more harm than good, and therefore all government diktats should be undone without further delay.
Yes - good post. Sorry I might have repeated some of what you just said in my post below.
Did the mitigation efforts do more good than harm? is the right question to ask.
The primary mitigation strategy was and is vaccines, which are highly effective in reducing new cases and especially so at reducing hospitalizations and deaths.
As to masks, the CDC published a summary in December citing numerous studies showing reduced transmission due to masks, and including this statement:
"SARS-CoV-2 infection is transmitted predominantly by inhalation of respiratory droplets generated when people cough, sneeze, sing, talk, or breathe. CDC recommends community use of masks to prevent transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Masks are primarily intended to reduce the emission of virus-laden droplets by the wearer (“source control”), which is especially relevant for asymptomatic or presymptomatic infected wearers who feel well and may be unaware of their infectiousness to others (estimated to account for more than 50% of SARS-CoV-2 transmissions).1, 2 Masks also help reduce inhalation of these droplets by the wearer (“filtration for wearer protection”). The community benefit of masking for SARS-CoV-2 control is due to the combination of these two effects (source control and filtration for wearer protection); individual prevention benefit increases with increasing numbers of people using masks consistently and correctly."
Here is the link and you can review the various studies they list there.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html#:~:text=A%20study%20of%20an%20outbreak,70%25%20reduced%20risk.
Which is contradicted by multiple other studies. Additionally, they almost all of the studies they listed were based upon comparing counties with and without mask mandates, and these studies aren't useful, as they lack control groups, and have multiple demographic variation. The only study that they cited which is scientifically solid is the Bangladesh study, which showed only a 13% effectiveness, and is contrary to multiple other studies, using control groups. The CDC has been widely criticized by scientist for using these studies in their meta-analysis. They have ignored any study that contradicts their narrative. Meta-analysis that include both positive and negative findings have found no significant difference in mask vs no mask.
So, in summary your citation is based upon weak correlation, with only one scientifically solid study, which showed minimal improvement (13% is not that impressive, if your risk of getting the virus is 1 out of 10, it reduces your risk to 0.87 out of ten, basically a rounding error), and the data is biased as they didn't include contradictory research. So, therefore your citation is bullshit.
I was taught one of the biggest red flags when reading meta-analysis studies, is when the study didn't include any contradictory research, especially if the research was conducted under real world conditions, and not laboratory conditions.
Actually, rereading the CDC citation, it isn't even a meta-analysis, as all they did was list ten studies that supported their position but failed to list any studies that contradicted their position. This is a tactic almost always seen used by advocacy sites, but almost never seen used by respected scientific sites. The reason respected scientific sites don't generally post only supporting studies is because if there are any contrary studies, this decreases their credibility.
The only nod to contradictory studies was to two studies that the CDC ruled to be to small to draw any conclusions, however, almost all the studies they cited were also extremely small populations, one was of only 15 hairstylists, and again was entirely correlative with no control group and no adjustment for demographics.
That's not true soldier and you can look at the list of studies and see that at the link.
More importantly, any fool can understand that wearing a mask will minimize spreading of particles from sneezing, coughing, and exhaling. Lab studies, without the other many factors that field conditions exhibit - how many vaccinated, actual hours of exposure, etc - confirm this simple fact. Do we need a study of whether getting hit by a Mack truck will fuck you up? I don't.
How many times have you had the difference between field RCTs and lab studies explained now?
Are you that stupid or is it willful ignorance?
...it's an aerosol borne virus. The particles of which are less than half the size of the minimum tested for KN95 masks, which are only 40% effective at filtering particulates.
Any mask is useless in about 15 minutes when moisture is involved, regardless.
Additionally, for masking to be effective, you must wash your hands thoroughly with hot water for 30 seconds before applying the mask, and wash your hands for 30 seconds after removing the mask. And you must mask where no one else unmasked is present. Actually, as we were taught in nursing school, if it is wet/moist it is considered infected. Once your mask becomes moist it actually becomes a conduit for infections. When working with patients on respiratory isolation we were taught to minimize our time for tasks to less than 15 minutes. If it took longer than 15 minutes we were taught to exit the room, perform proper hand washing and change our masks, and then re-enter the room. Which is one of the biggest reasons I called bullshit on masking in 2020.
And find me an air filtration system in any grocery store capable of keeping an aerosol virus from circulating, or people that actually kept any semblance of mask sanitation.
I wear a bandana, if I must. It at least has other uses in life.
"The COVID-19 particle is indeed around 0.1 microns in size, but it is always bonded to something larger.
“There is never a naked virus floating in the air or released by people,” said Linsey Marr, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech who specializes in airborne transmission of viruses.
The virus attaches to water droplets or aerosols (i.e. really small droplets) that are generated by breathing, talking, coughing, etc. These consist of water, mucus protein and other biological material and are all larger than 1 micron.
“Breathing and talking generate particles around 1 micron in size, which will be collected by N95 respirator filters with very high efficiency,” said Lisa Brosseau, a retired professor of environmental and occupational health sciences who spent her career researching respiratory protection.
Health care precautions for COVID-19 are built around stopping the droplets, since “there’s not a lot of evidence for aerosol spread of COVID-19,” said Patrick Remington, a former CDC epidemiologist and director of the Preventive Medicine Residency Program at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
But that’s not the only logical flaw in this claim.
The N95 filter indeed is physically around the 0.3 micron size. But that doesn’t mean it can only stop particles larger than that. The masks are actually best for particles either larger or smaller than that 0.3 micron threshold.
“N95 have the worst filtration efficiency for particles around 0.3,” Marr said. “If you’re smaller than that those are actually collected even better. It’s counterintuitive because masks do not work like sieving out larger particles. It’s not like pasta in a colander, and small ones don’t get through.” TBC
A-E-R-O-S-O-L-S.
"Disease-carrying aerosols contain substances 5 μm..."
You have got to be even dumber than Tony. Fuck. How many times, Barbie Jack?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8295061/
Stupid brackets.
"Disease-carrying aerosols contain substances (less than) 5 μm, while infectious disease physicians traditionally consider large droplet sprays to contain substances (greater than) 5 μm..."
You need to learn how to interpret data. A reduction of risk must be applied to your actual overall risk.
Additionally, with such a small increase, even if true, reduction in risk, the question becomes how likely is the perception of risk reduction going to lead to more risky behavior?
It is a well known and well documented phenomena that people when given risk reduction strategies often will increase their risk behavior. Football is a prime example. With the introduction of helmets the number of head injuries actually increased. Rugby, another full contact sport similar to football has a much lower risk of head injuries, as the players are less likely to lead with their heads during tackles. To combat head injuries most football leagues have implemented rules to ban leading with your head when tackling. Despite the risk reduction strategy, helmets, the desired outcome, decreased head injuries, was offset by more risky behavior. Helmets greatly reduce head injuries more than masks reduce transmission risk, and the data initially showed that players, when first given helmets did have reduced head injuries. But as players became more accustomed to playing with helmets, they adjusted how they played and began to participate in much riskier behavior. This example is just one of many, where risk reduction lead ultimately to riskier behavior. ABS brakes are another. When ABS brakes became standard, the number of accidents from skids reduced initially, but that number began to climb, because people began to drive at higher speeds in adverse conditions.
I think the Sophistocrats only cared that the help was masked, honestly.
On the risk assessment tangent, I liked the German push for perilous playgrounds; same idea as why I left heavy fuzzy toys on shelves as bait for toddlers - instructed knowledge and relevent personal experience are wholly different motivators.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10127735/German-playgrounds-designed-perilous-ensure-kids-learn-handle-risk.html
We're not performing surgery soldier, we're trying to avoid breathing and/or passing on Covid viruses using a simple, cheap, available, and painless tool.
Most importantly, get vaccinated and tell others to do the same. The data is clear that those who haven't are most of the new cases, and overwhelmingly the ones in our hospitals, and the ones leaving there feet first.
Simple, cheap and painless?
Someone is ignoring John Hopkins with every fibre of their partisan being...
"Do the mitigation strategies prevent Covid" is the wrong question. The right question is "do the mitigation strategies do more good than harm?"
Weigh pros vs. cons.
In the case of children this is obvious - the risk from Covid is very small so the cons of the mitigation efforts far outweigh the pros.
no, that is the wrong question. the right question is "are the mitigation strategies lawful & constitutional?". then if the answer is yes you move on to the next questions.
Absolutely right - that is the first question that SHOULD be asked.
I'm saying even those who don't give an F about freedom and laws and the Constitution should present a case that the pros of their proposed rules / laws / non-constitutional emergency power grabs should outweigh the cons.
Well, courts have ruled it was largely illegal and science concludes it was predominantly harmful, so the public hopefully votes to dismiss the debutantes of the masquerade.