CDC

The CDC's Guidance for Summer Camps Is Insane

"Masking kids at camp outdoors is simply virtue signaling."

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Last week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released new guidance to help summer camps mitigate their coronavirus risk. Given that summer camps involve both children and the outdoors—two factors that render COVID-19 significantly less worrisome—and will be opening in the wake of widespread vaccination, one might have expected the CDC to depart from its characteristic over-caution.

Nope: This is among the most restrictive, unrealistic guidance the agency has released during the pandemic. It's more limiting than the CDC's guidance for vaccinated people exercising outside more generally. If followed, summer campers would be miserable, deprived of physical contact, and in considerable danger of overheating. The government has essentially recommended that summer camps treat kids like prisoners.

Here are just some of the restrictions:

  • Everyone at the camp—including staff and every kid over the age of two—must wear masks at all times, unless they are eating or swimming. They should wear two layers of masks, especially when social distancing is difficult, regardless of "whether activities are indoors or outdoors."
  • Campers should be placed in "cohorts," and their interaction with people outside the cohort must be limited.
  • There should always be at least three feet between campers of the same cohort, and six feet between campers of different cohorts. Staff should keep six feet away from campers at all times, whether inside or outside. Distance should be maintained while eating, napping, or riding the bus: The CDC suggests seating kids in alternating rows.
  • The use of physical objects that might be shared among kids—toys, art supplies, electronics—should be limited wherever possible.
  • Camps should not permit close-contact sports and indoor sports, and should require masks regardless.
  • If anyone is curious there are separate restrictions for outdoor gardening.

This is bonkers. First, COVID-19 is not easily transmitted outside, even if people are maskless. Second, all camp staffers will have likely had the opportunity to be vaccinated by the time summer arrives. Third, the campers themselves are not at risk of a negative health outcome: For kids, COVID-19 is probably less hazardous than the flu. (In a typical year, more U.S. kids drown than will have died of COVID-19.)

From a pandemic standpoint, kids playing together outside is an extremely safe group activity. And again, the vaccines work. They offer almost complete protection for anyone who is worried about getting sick.

David Zweig interviewed several health experts for New York magazine who assailed the guidance as "cruel," "irrational," and little more than "virtue signaling." He writes:

Mark Gorelik, a pediatric immunologist at Columbia University and an expert on MIS-C, the rare COVID-19-related inflammatory syndrome, said, "We know that the risk of outdoor infection is very low. We know risks of children becoming seriously ill or even ill at all is vanishingly small. And most of the vulnerable population is already vaccinated. I am supportive of effective measures to restrain the spread of illness. However, the CDC's recommendations cross the line into excess and are, frankly, senseless. Children cannot be running around outside in 90-degree weather wearing a mask. Period."

An infectious-disease scientist at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Anthony Fauci's agency, spoke with me about the CDC guidance on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media. "With staff and parents vaccinated, there is no reason to continue incredibly strict mitigation efforts or put severe limitations on activities," they said. "Charitably," the scientist, who has an expertise in respiratory viruses, continued, "masking kids at camp outdoors is simply virtue signaling. Requiring kids to continuously wear masks at camps, even while outside playing in the heat, when it provides little additional protection is unfair and cruel to our children. Considering that children are at incredibly low risk for developing severe illness, the minimal benefits of mask wearing do not outweigh the substantial costs of discouraging children to be active and their overall health."

Kids and vaccinated adults do not need to wear masks or adhere to strict social distancing while outside. The guidance should be updated immediately to reflect this reality. Failing that, it should simply be ignored.

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  1. Enjoy prison kids…I mean enjoy camp kids!!

    1. Start accustoming them early. They’ll be rounded up for some violation of Critical Race Theory, or planning insurrection sooner or later.

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      2. Unelected officious bureaucrats ( Fauci and the hysteric running the CDC, et al) pronouncing recommendations that carry more weight than law. Scary stuff

      3. On our way to totalitarianism w/ Unelected officious bureaucrats ( Fauci and the hysteric running the CDC, et al) pronouncing recommendations that carry more weight than law.

    2. “The CDC recommends you wear a seatbelt even when not inside a car”.
      180303369_4229912490381602_8588490606431439454_n.jpeg

      1. I saw that! LOL.

    3. Why should I enjoy prison kids or even camp kids?

  2. Risk analysis used to be a thing. Not anymore. Only acceptable risk is zero.

    1. Only acceptable risk is “zero”.

      FIFY

    2. And there is only one risk that may be considered.

    3. It’s some kind of institutionalized negativity bias. No one faults anyone for being too cautious, even if that causes problems, they only fault them for not being cautious enough. Ergo, just wear a hazmat suit everywhere.

    4. “(In a typical year, more U.S. kids drown than will have died of COVID-19.)”

      Is this true? Good Lord! Time to outlaw water! Or at least require kids to wear an aqualung at all times.

      1. Drowning is the no.1 cause of death, ages 1-4.
        You can do a search and read the grim statistics.

  3. Everyone at the camp—including staff and every kid over the age of two—must wear masks at all times, unless they are eating or swimming. They should wear two layers of masks, especially when social distancing is difficult, regardless of “whether activities are indoors or outdoors.”

    Got it, two layers of masks while sleeping. What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Masks are so effective, you need two of them.

    2. The actual CDC guidance very specifically says mask should not be worn while sleeping.

      Don’t let the truth get in the way of your outrage, though.

      1. And how is that justified?

        1. Magic! Science!

  4. Without the CDC, many kids would have enjoyed this year’s summer camp.

    1. Without the CDC, we would have had a lot more than 2/3 of a million Americans dead so far from COVID.

  5. I find The Atlantic editorial decisions to consistently follow a path on any topic of being initially alarmist followed by being reasonable.

    1. I find the CDC to be worthy of being misportrayed and otherwise fucked at every turn.

  6. There should always be at least three feet between campers of the same cohort, and six feet between campers of different cohorts. Staff should keep six feet away from campers at all times, whether inside or outside.

    How many layers of disinformation deep is the ‘3 ft. between child cohorts at camp’ recommendation? 7? 8?

    Very telling that the CDC’s camp guidance is more stringent than its classroom guidance.

    1. All staffers will carry a six-foot stick at all times to check their distance from campers. All campers will carry a six-foot and a three-foot stick to check their distance from other campers.

  7. The Center for Disease Control has incorporated text from the American Federation of Teachers (union) into the CDC’s official guidance for school reopenings.

    “The powerful teachers union’s full-court press preceded the federal agency putting the brakes on a full re-opening of in-person classrooms, emails between top CDC, AFT and White House officials show.

    The emails were obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request by the conservative watchdog group Americans for Public Trust and provided to The Post.

    The documents show a flurry of activity between CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, her top advisors and union officials — with Biden brass being looped in at the White House — in the days before the highly-anticipated Feb. 12 announcement on school-reopening guidelines . . . .

    The lobbying paid off. In at least two instances, language “suggestions” offered by the union were adopted nearly verbatim into the final text of the CDC document.

    —-New York Post, May 1, 2021

    https://nypost.com/2021/05/01/teachers-union-collaborated-with-cdc-on-school-reopening-emails/

    The CDC should be considered a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Federation of Teachers and the Democratic Party. When we’re talking about the elitists inflicting their will on us over our objections and outside the proper purview of democracy, this is what we’re talking about. I repeat: The CDC is getting its guidelines from the American Federation of Teachers union.

    1. Oh, darn. I’m pretty certain the teachers’ unions had input on these camp rules and I thought you had beaten me to the punch and were posting proof.

      1. FWIW, they did this last year:

        The American Federation of Teachers is proposing a nationwide, four week summer school program. The plan is contingent on whether it is safe enough to be in school by then . . . .

        The teachers union has asked for a $25 billion federal relief to pay for this program. This would be separate funds from what should be used next year.

        https://www.newschannel5.com/news/teachers-union-calls-for-nationwide-summer-school

        Getting AFT members overtime pay courtesy of the taxpayer is just a coincidence, I’m sure.

        1. Even a year ago they weren’t trying to hide their racket.

  8. Rational people should shun democrats, leftists, and bureaucrats.

    1. If only they would let you – they inflict themselves into every damn thing you do, want to do, or think about doing.

  9. The CDC is a runaway train that left common sense at the last station. God help us.

  10. Why do you hate children? Is it because they remind you of your rapidly approaching middle ageness?

    1. I hate them because they are noisy and smell funny and are very selfish.
      But I joke and also care enough that seeing them masked makes me sad and angry.

      1. Crying in restaurants, General. Don’t forget crying in restaurants.

    2. Gagging children at least has some utility, masking them doesn’t benefit anyone.

      1. Not only that but keeping them busy….idle hands you know…bring back child labor, sorting coal and working in the mills.
        The Puritans used to force children to carry the caskets of other children. Not a bad idea that.
        On the farm, by the time they’re ten years old, they’re driving tractors.

  11. Quo Usque Tandem: How much longer, and to what extreme, will be endure the increasing tyranny of our government? At what point will it become intolerable to sufficient of us to substantially push back?
    These prescriptions for “summer camp” will not remain at that level; the “pandemic” has served as an accelerant to those who would be all too happy to micromanage even more of our daily lives. And it does not appear that those powers are going to be readily relinquished.

    1. I only give you a .5 TC (Tucker Carlson) on that one. Sure, you have the misinformation and the feigned indignity, but it’s boring and doesn’t include enough question marks.

      1. T.C.? Did you coin that?

      2. And fuck you too.

  12. summer camp is for breaking rules anyway.

  13. The CDC’s recommendations are…
    The key word is “recommendations”

    1. Until governors adopt them as requirements in order to “follow the science.”

      1. They blinded me with science!

  14. IT
    JUST
    DOESN’T
    MATTER!

    1. Me Ted.

    2. The CDC probably isn’t too keen on hot dog eating contests, either.

      1. The CDC…isn’t too keen.

        There, I fixed it for you.

  15. “Children cannot be running around outside in 90-degree weather wearing a mask. Period.”

    What do you mean, “a mask?” Didn’t you read the CDC document? They want children to be running around outdoors in 90° weather wearing double masks!

    1. The guidance does not say “double masks.”

      Actual quote from the guidance: “Campers and staff can use well-fitting cloth masks with two or more layers of tightly woven, breathable fabric or disposable masks.”

      The common cloth mask most people make or wear these days is exactly this–a single mask with at least two layers of fabric.

      But don’t let the truth get in the way of your partisan outrage.

      1. Oh. Whew. That’s so much better.

      2. Hey asshole, did you notice the new MUTE button?

        1. shawn_dude is an absolute zero risk zealot. There is no point in trying to have a rational conversation with him.

  16. The Branch Covidians strike again!
    Hello muddah, hello faddah
    Here I am at Camp Grenada
    Camp is very entertaining
    And they say we’ll have some fun
    If it stops raining….

  17. Did an expert really just say that there are “minimal benefits” to mask wearing? I thought masks were the only thing that would save us.

    1. An expert. Just one. That isn’t license to toss out all other scientific evidence and opinion that contradicts it.

      1. Piss off.

      2. Do you also wear your mask when your head is shoved up your ass?

      3. ‘That isn’t license to toss out all other scientific evidence and opinion that contradicts it.’

        like wearing two masks outdoors for people who aren’t going to catch the disease anyway…? you mean that kind of scientific evidence and opinion…?

        1. Well, I wouldn’t mean that since that’s not what the CDC said. Some yahoo upthread made that up.

          What the CDC actually advises campers to wear:
          “Campers and staff can use well-fitting cloth masks with two or more layers of tightly woven, breathable fabric or disposable masks.”

          Children are at low risk but they aren’t at zero risk. There are recorded cases of children spreading COVID, though they aren’t common.

          1. Thanks, we get you now. Zero risk.

          2. Zero risk are you fucking serious?

          3. Hahaha nice duck & dodge.

            Pretending as if it was the poster upthread who created the recommendation and advised to double mask… LOLZ

            That would be your overlord Fauci, numb nuts, who recently began making that dumbass recommendation.

      4. He’s not just one but I’m not surprised you think that

        Also really excited to hear about all this scientific evidence that contradicts it try again

  18. It seems there would be more concern over such things as poison ivy, infected mosquito bites and stubbed toes.
    Up here in Northern Michigan, the YMCA Camp/ Camp Hayo- Went- Ha has been in operation for close to 140 years.
    I seriously doubt the mask nonsense is going to work up here.
    And no one should believe anything the government says.
    Now wait until Flip Flop Fauci comes up with another decree…..

    1. When was the last time a kid with poison oak gave it to his grandmother and killed her?

      1. If grandma didn’t get vaccinated by now, it’s on her.

        1. Does your granny dislike you? Did she disown you?
          Sounds like it.

          1. So, you’re the dumbass troll of the thread.

            Got it.

        2. Pretty much what I’ve been thinking about anyone who isn’t vaccinated by Memorial Day…. after that, you had your chance, don’t bitch to me if you get sick. Time to take the damned masks off and get on with life. (Except in Massachusetts where we’re afraid of everything, so please, please please, take our freedom, just please keep us safe.)

          1. “Everything is illegal in Massachusetts.”

      2. I’d bet it’s happened.

  19. What the author does not mention is that there is no way that such guidelines can ever be enforced. The CDC protects itself by making the rules more draconian than they need to be, knowing that it protects them, but at the same time, they know that no one will follow them that strictly.

    1. they know that no one will follow them that strictly.
      Lol. You don’t get out much, do you?

      1. Northeast governors: “Hold my beer.”

  20. #defundCDC

  21. “Everyone at the camp—including staff and every kid over the age of two—must wear masks at all times, unless they are eating or swimming.”

    Is there any real world evidence showing masks are even a little bit effective at anything other than compliance signaling?

    1. Yes. Quite a bit. Google it.

      Depending on the mask, if you have an n95 and wear it properly, it can protect the wearer from transmission via breathing. This is what hospital workers wear. If you’re wearing it and it isn’t very uncomfortable to somewhat painful, you aren’t wearing it correctly and it doesn’t do you any good. If you have a cloth mask, and you wear it properly, which basically means covering your nose and mouth (at the same time, fer crying out loud), it protects the people around you from whatever germs you are carrying.

      While you’re out looking up the evidence, also look up the 2020 flu season numbers. There was almost no incidence of the flu last year. It’s almost like the social distancing and masks provided protection from spreading other diseases too. Go figure.

      1. .. it protects the people around you from whatever germs you are carrying.

        So much idiocy in one sentence.

      2. “Yes. Quite a bit. Google it.”

        No, there isn’t — not Real World evidence.

        Here is Real World evidence that masks were completely useless: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases-50-states

        Note the nearly synchronous collapse of case rates starting in early-December. There is absolutely zero correlation with mask mandates or compliance.

        There is a very simple explanation for this: C-19 is, like most, if not all, upper respiratory infections, seasonal; and, being very infectious, it quickly ran out of people to infect.

        If masks worked, this wouldn’t have happened.

        “Depending on the mask, if you have an n95 and wear it properly … If you’re wearing it and it isn’t very uncomfortable to somewhat painful, you aren’t wearing it correctly and it doesn’t do you any good.”

        I have worn N95’s in dusty work conditions. While I very much doubt they offer any protection against virus sized particles, that is beside the real point: no one wears them, because they are, as you say, very uncomfortable. So, whether they are effective is irrelevant.

        Oh, BTW, hospital workers don’t wear them.

        “If you have a cloth mask, and you wear it properly, which basically means covering your nose and mouth (at the same time, fer crying out loud), it protects the people around you from whatever germs you are carrying.”

        No, cloth masks do not provide any protection. Pre-/Asymptomatic-people do not emit viruses embedded in ejecta large enough for cloth masks to provide any meaningful barrier.

        “While you’re out looking up the evidence, also look up the 2020 flu season numbers. There was almost no incidence of the flu last year. It’s almost like the social distancing and masks provided protection from spreading other diseases too. Go figure.”

        That is, indeed, interesting. And, if true, all the evidence required to wear masks and social distance until the end of time.

        I remain skeptical, based upon purely anecdotal data. I can’t remember the exact year — 2011, perhaps? — I came back from China with a vicious, ER worthy, case of H7N1. It briefly made news in the US because it killed a sufficient number of people in Shanghai, where I was at the time.

        The ER sent me home with a non-specific viral infection diagnosis. Which didn’t count in the flu stats, but sure as hell was the flu.

        Given all the brou ha ha about C-19, what are the odds that a mild flu season is just disappearing in the noise?

        1. Ok… let’s break this down:
          “No, there isn’t — not Real World evidence.”
          Kinds sounds like the “no true Scotsman” approach here. I’m sure “Real World evidence” has a meaning that lets you discount actual studies from respected health organizations and medical journals. What’s peer review when you’ve got “Real World evidence?!”
          Here’s a list of peer reviewed articles you’ll likely say aren’t “Real World” enough.

          Your own link went to a page that doesn’t talk about masks, which I found odd. And you’re trying to infer something from the graphs there based on your years of experience as a virologist?

          Re: n95 masks (or, more accurately, ventilators.) “Oh, BTW, hospital workers don’t wear them.”
          Yes, yes, they do. And 3M sells n95 certified ventilators for medical workers quite prominently. And the FDA has this to say about them:
          “However, some N95 respirators are intended for use in a health care setting. Specifically, single-use, disposable respiratory protective devices used and worn by health care personnel during procedures to protect both the patient and health care personnel from the transfer of microorganisms, body fluids, and particulate material. These surgical N95 respirators are class II devices regulated by the FDA, under 21 CFR 878.4040, and CDC NIOSH under 42 CFR Part 84.”

          “No, cloth masks do not provide any protection. Pre-/Asymptomatic-people do not emit viruses embedded in ejecta large enough for cloth masks to provide any meaningful barrier.”
          Thanks for the pronouncement, despite the mounting (and provided) evidence to the contrary. I couldn’t find any studies showing transmission from asymptomatic persons but there’s evidence showing transmission from presymptomatic persons with viral shedding peaking in the first day or two of experiencing symptoms.

          “Given all the brou ha ha about C-19, what are the odds that a mild flu season is just disappearing in the noise?”
          Pretty low, really. If you’ve got flu symptoms during a coronavirus pandemic, you’re likely going to get tested for COVID so there’d be medical data related to flu symptoms that tested negative for COVID-19.

          It’s a lot easier to sow doubt in medical science than prove the science is wrong. All that is doing is getting people hurt in order to score partisan political points.

          1. Hard to believe your actually shilling for the CDC and for kids wearing masks at camp. I mean, c’mon man. What kind of hill is that? WTF is the matter with you?

            1. That dick ain’t gonna suck itself…

          2. ““No, there isn’t — not Real World evidence.”
            Kinds sounds like the “no true Scotsman” approach here.”

            No, it isn’t. Real World evidence is contained in the link Johns Hopkins link I provided. Case rates across the US are seasonally and climatically correlated. In contrast, there is no correlation with restrictions, mask mandates, or compliance.

            If masks work, then states with low compliance, or less restrictive mandates, should have had distinctly different case rates over time. They don’t.

            Texas should have seen a resurgence in infections after it dropped mandates. It didn’t.

            California, at over 85% compliance, and much more severe restrictions, should have a dramatically different case curve than Idaho, with 55% compliance, and minimal restrictions. It doesn’t.

            That’s what I mean by the Real World showing there is no evidence showing masks are effective.

            “‘Oh, BTW, hospital workers don’t wear them.’
            Yes, yes, they do.”

            Over the past year, I’ve had two hip replacements. Lots of standard surgical masks, not an N95 to be seen anywhere.

            “Pretty low, really. If you’ve got flu symptoms during a coronavirus pandemic, you’re likely going to get tested for COVID so there’d be medical data related to flu symptoms that tested negative for COVID-19.”

            The math doesn’t work out that way. Given that flu is seasonal like C-19, and that the ratio of infections to cases is something like 4:1, then there is a similar ratio of people who present with flu symptoms, and who had also had an undiagnosed C-19 infection. Which inevitably means a lot of attribution errors.

            A combination of a relatively mild flu season and attribution errors, would completely explain the *appearance* of a non-existent flu season, that, in reality, is well within the normal range.

      3. Yeah, a lost year was just SO worth it all. Go figure.

        You deserve everything you have coming to you with your stupidity…be careful what you wish for, because you’re probably going to get it. Thing is, you’re so fucking dumb, that you’ll never connect the dots and wake up.

        I wear a mask when it makes sense, and when required to do what I have to do. It’s not a political statement or religion, and you are full of shit about it being comfortable if worn a certain way – it can be somewhat benign, but never as comfortable as not wearing it.

        PS – Fuck you.

        1. If you’re going to heckle me for stuff I say, please be sure to make it stuff I *actually* said. Maybe re-read it? (I was referring to n95 masks specifically and I said they are very uncomfortable to somewhat painful to wear.)

          PS — Reading is Fundamental

          1. PS – wearing masks outside is virtue signaling

      4. The flu also disappeared in Sweden, so……….?

        It’s beyond clear that nobody wears the stupid mask right. They are filthy face diapers only good for signaling how obedient you are.

  22. There are people who are simply hypochondriacs. My father, whom I called a professional germophobe (he worked in the dairy industry for over 40 years and and a college degree in food science), pretty much did whatever his physician advised.

    And frankly, a lot of doctors err far on the side of caution. If the choice is telling a patient that children need to mask up any time they are out of the house or risk a malpractice suit, they will do the former.

    It seems to me that defensive medicine is taught in medical school, whether it’s cardiology, obstetrics, or public health, because if something goes even a teeny bit wrong, people want to sue.

    A friend of my in-laws was put in a Covid ward in the hospital, after she had a procedure to have a stent put in. Although she did not contract Covid, she wants to sue for malpractice.

    Now, should the state agency that oversees hospitals know about the mistake? Yes. But the person has no cause of action.

    This is why doctors are being so cautious.

    1. Doctors are being cautious because designing studies, gathering evidence, and running the numbers takes months and years. Then there’s peer review and repetitive studies to confirm results. All of that takes a lot longer than COVID-19 has been around. The medical experts, and your doctor, could say “hey, we know it’s bad but we’re not sure how it’s spreading, killing people, or how to treat it and probably won’t know all of that with any degree of confidence for a year or two. So, given that, I cannot give you any advice as that advice would be based on conjecture.” That’s what a doctor who cares about insurance more than helping people might say. Or, your doctor could say “Hey, we’re still learning about this disease. But we know it’s a coronavirus, something we have lots of experience with in general, and it appears to be related to SARS or MERS, which we’ve done a lot of recent research into, so based on that, you should assume the disease is spread by vapor droplets and can be picked up on surfaces if you touch your face and spitting or breathing heavy can likely spread it. So wear masks, disinfect the crap out of yourself, and keep at least 6 feet distant from other people.”

      As the scientists studied the data and also reviewed case data from infected people, they refined the advice down. No need to disinfect your groceries, for example.

      Science isn’t instant and it’s a gradual buildup of knowledge and confidence. Your basic high school biology class should have covered most of this.

      1. Yeah, but I bet you ran right out and got that experimental vaccine that hasn’t undergone proper scientific rigor and vetting.

        And no, I am not anti-vax, but these vaccines have been rushed to market with insufficient testing…based on your own words above.

        1. Again, reading is fundamental.

          It is an experimental vaccine.
          It has undergone scientific rigor and testing.
          It wasn’t “rushed to market with insufficient testing.”
          Yes, I did get the vaccine. Only someone who is allergic to vaccines, pregnant, or a moron hasn’t gotten the vaccine. Which are you?

          1. Again, reading is fundamental.

            You’re very fucking annoying. How convenient reason has instituted a mute user function!

            1. OMG…thank you! Mr Zero Risk is gone.

              1. Mr. Who? I can’t seem him, any more.

  23. Wow ….Atlantic editorial decisions to consistently follow a path on any topic of being initially
    https:/wapexclusive.com ,alarmist followed by being reasonable.

    1. Help. This bot is perjuring me.

    2. or plagiarizing me. whichever

      1. Bots aren’t very bright.

  24. The OP is clearly going for the Tucker Carlson stand-in and fluffer job at FOX with this one: “The government has essentially recommended that summer camps treat kids like prisoners.”

    “Second, all camp staffers will have likely had the opportunity to be vaccinated by the time summer arrives. “
    Given that the vaccines are only roughly 95% effective, you might want to say that only 5% of the staffers are likely to catch COVID and get sick from it. Well, 5% of the staffers and their families.

    “Third, the campers themselves are not at risk of a negative health outcome…”
    Well, no. Not true. Not only have a few children gotten the original version of COVID, there’s some mounting evidence that a few of the new variants are impacting children at higher rates. But even if the risk is low, it isn’t zero as you say.

    “In a typical year, more U.S. kids drown than will have died of COVID-19.”
    Oh, so why even bother having lifeguards at pools? Maybe because preventable deaths should be prevented? And that includes the kids who catch COVID and get sick themselves and all of the adults the kids come into contact with later?

    “Kids and vaccinated adults do not need to wear masks or adhere to strict social distancing while outside. The guidance should be updated immediately to reflect this reality. “
    And your credentials to make this grand pronouncement are…? A bowtie and the Swanson fortune behind you?

    As usual, with “Reason,” we have articles that beat the drums of freedom loudly for all to hear! …and quietly pretend that personal responsibility isn’t also part of the equation. I mean, why should we act like adults who consider their impact on those around them? Doesn’t “freedom” mean we don’t have to care about our impact on others?

    On the bright side, all of this unReasonable behavior is going to leave a lot of conservatives and Trumpians sick with long term existing conditions that will eventually create overwhelming support for single-payer healthcare.

    1. “why even bother having lifeguards at pools? Maybe because preventable deaths should be prevented? And that includes the kids who catch COVID and get sick themselves and all of the adults the kids come into contact with later?”
      Yeah, we have lifeguards to save the kids who are actually drowning–we don’t prevent everyone else from fully immersing themselves in the water. I absolutely believe that medical care should be provided to those who are sick–they are the lifeguards in this situation.

      More generally, the important issue is that the risk will never be zero. It might remain about where it’s at for the next 5 years. (Given the number of vaccine refusers in this country….) And meanwhile there are other health risks to be balanced against the risks posed by Covid. Anything that discourages kids from running around outside is inherently bad for their health, and therefore to that extent risky.

      While the REASON article contains some exaggerations, the CDC doesn’t appear to have engaged in a *balancing* of risks against each other. Kids playing outside–that’s as Covid-safe an activity as we are going to have for a long time, I’m afraid.

      1. Don’t get me wrong, the CDC guidelines, as presented here at least, seem harsh to me as well. But the outright hyperbole (“prison?”) and misinformation in the article is inexcusable in a magazine that calls itself “Reason.”

        I’m not a medical expert but it seems to me a restriction on only allowing the children of vaccinated families attend if masks are to be discouraged seems reasonable. The new CDC guidelines for general outdoor mask use pretty much say to take them off in all but very crowded situations. Not sure why kids need a different standard. Keeping the kids in cohorts is a good idea–something a few universities who reopened early did to quickly identify sick students and quarantine the least number of people. It’s probably a good practice in the short term.

        While this pandemic is likely to be with us for a while, the difference between today and 5 years from now is at least 4 more years of data and study that let us reduce the impact of the disease in our lives. It’s hard to balance the unknown risks of the new variants. Maybe in another year, we’ll understand how the variants impact people and will realize we could have been less strict in 2021. Maybe being strict for Summer this year saves thousands of lives. Being able to go to camp and be social, even while wearing masks, seems like a reasonable balance.

        1. SHAWN_DUDE. It’s obvious you are not a medical expert, and you definitely don’t know anything about children. I’ve worked at summer camps for 25 years. There is no possible way to enforce what the CDC is recommending. Children were not designed to live in bubbles and cohorts. Summer camps pose many risks including illnesses, injuries, homesickness, etc… The benefits far outweigh the risks. The friendships created, the confidence the grows, and the memories that are made are just a few. Here’s a reasonable balance for parents. If you are afraid your child is going to get COVID, maybe you need not send them to camp this summer. Otherwise, camps need to open up and provide the services to children that they so desperately need. We need to stop worrying about variants and start facing the reality that this COVID response of lockdowns, social distancing, closing schools and camps, and mask mandates is creating the largest mental health crisis among youth in the last 100 years.

    2. The further I read down, the stupider you get.

      1. Your analysis is riveting.

        1. Only because of its accuracy.

      2. He’s zero risk, so one hundred percent out of touch with reality

    3. “Given that the vaccines are only roughly 95% effective, you might want to say that only 5% of the staffers are likely to catch COVID and get sick from it. Well, 5% of the staffers and their families.”

      That is not what 95% efficacy means. It means that the chance of catching COVID decreases by 95% compared to what it would be without the vaccine, not that you have a 95% chance of not catching COVID. These numbers are not at all comparable because natural chance of infection is way less than 100%.

      Even on early cruise ships when we knew absolutely nothing about the virus (we thought it was mostly contact borne back then!), people packed together inside, no masking, and demographics to make a virus jump for joy, fewer than a third caught it. Last I had read (been a while) when a married individual tests positive, their spouse also tests positive less than half the time.

      Contrast this with summer camp: there are very, very few reported instances of the virus spreading outdoors, and kid’s immune systems are usually able to stop the virus before it schluffs off too much virus. The combination of outside + kid really makes the natural risk of infection miniscule. I don’t have a good basis, but let’s throw a number out there: let’s say that unvaccinated camp staff has a 2% chance of getting infected at an outdoor camp without any mitigations. So, vaccinated staff will have a 0.1% chance of a breakthrough infection. Since camp staff skews younger and vaccines protect especially well against severe infection, let’s say that they have a 1% chance of hospitalization if infected. So, without mitigation, we’ll have one hospitalization per 100,000 vaccinated camp staff. So… one or two hospitalizations nationwide? Feel free to play with the assumptions, but the conclusion will be the same: trying to protect vaccinated outdoor camp staff is risk adverseness run amok.

      1. Ve is defined as 1 – Rvacc/Runvacc. So at 90% efficacy, Rvacc is 10x smaller than Runvacc.

      2. let’s say that they have a 1% chance of hospitalization if infected.

        1% is probably closer to the unvaccinated rate of hospitalization among that age group.

        During surge planning, we generally stuck with 2.5% hospitalization rates across all ages.

    4. “Given that the vaccines are only roughly 95% effective, you might want to say that only 5% of the staffers are likely to catch COVID and get sick from it. Well, 5% of the staffers and their families.”

      No, you don’t want to say that.

      Roughly half the US population isn’t susceptible to C-19 in the first place.

      So you’d be better of saying 2.5%.

      Except the ratio of infections to cases is about 4:1; given the number of cases so far, something like 90% of the susceptible population has already been infected.

      So 0.25% is much closer to reality.

  25. One thing that can be said for the CDC throughout this event is that they have failed and failed spectacularly.
    This is just another in a long line of incredibly stupid pronouncements by the CDC.
    More proof that with government you do not get what you have paid for.
    The CDC is to be ignored.

  26. I don’t think responding to hysterical overreactions with hysterical overreactions is helpful.

    Kids aren’t going to overheat because of masks. Come on, that’s stupid.

    1. After a year of being locked into the house with your kids with no break, I can imagine parents are dying to get some rest and summer camps are traditionally used for that purpose.

      I read the CDC guidelines myself because I didn’t trust the hyperventilating author’s ability to accurately relate them. The guidelines are largely common sense given what we know and don’t know about the virus. I think the strict mask requirement that extends to outdoors goes a bit far, but otherwise, the rest of it seems right to me.

      By next Summer, kids will be able to be vaccinated and hopefully a bunch of the anti-vaccine folks will have gotten theirs and we can all take them off and put this behind us. Until then, masks will likely still be common through 2021 and probably at least part of 2022.

      1. Two weeks to flatten the curve, now we are into next year……

  27. I have had two recent conversations with my 18 year old that resulted in her reeee sperging. First was about woke shit in general and specifically cultural appropriation. Second was about masking after vaccination.

    These are both the direct result of her transferral from the Catholic school system to public high school. I’m atheist, but my wife is Catholic. Both of these systems offer indoctrination, but the public school programming is much more virulent and destructive.

    I can, however, be relieved that she is at least atheist. I made the mistake of attributing this to a rational mind (ha–rational at 18–riiiight).

    It’s hell, getting old, and watching your progeny dissolve into wokescold conformists who think they are rebels. Well, sweetie, the reason you are driving a beater is because you support confiscatory tax policy and restrictions of my freedom. Snap out of it and I will think about a lease. Give me 3000 words on Mises and we’ll chat. Until then, keep that roadside assistance app on your phone.

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  29. “The use of physical objects that might be shared among kids—toys, art supplies, electronics—should be limited wherever possible.”

    This guidance really ticks me off. The virus doesn’t spread via contact. We have known that the virus doesn’t spread via contact for about a year. Even the CDC acknowledges this. This recommendation is not following the science and is completely unnecessary under pretty much any risk framework you put it in. It reveals the mindset behind the recommendations: “well theoretically, it is possible, even though no study supports it, so we’ll toss it in as a ‘whenever possible'”. So, should the camp cancel arts and crafts time? I mean, they can find other activities, so it is possible. It would actually be a good idea if this virus spread via contact. Which this one does not. So, why suggest it?

    If you are just going to throw random crap in, you don’t even have to make the guidance disease specific. How do you stop Mono (presumably at a camp serving teenage campers)? Don’t bother creating specific guidance, just use this. Keeping campers 3 feet apart and not touching the same items works just as well as any Mono specific guidelines. Heck, add in wear mosquito netting at all times and boil all food/drink before consumption, and the guidance works for every disease. We won’t need the CDC any more, chances are, any existing or new disease would be blocked by that super guidance. That…or maybe the CDC could do its f’n job and evaluate the research in order to make risk based guidance that balances public health outcomes against making the guidance as easy as possible to follow, and not just throw random recommendations into its guidance for laymen to have to sort through.

    1. On the other hand, all it takes to comply is a basic sense of physical politeness.

      But it need’t annoy you at all. You’re not going to be put in jail for being careless with your germs. We aren’t that sophisticated yet.

      Are you mad that you have to put effort into being considered a member of polite society? Is that what all this has always been about?

      1. No.

      2. “all it takes to comply is a basic sense of physical politeness.”

        This is wrong. In order to comply with “don’t use objects that might be shared”, you need to have a copy of that object for every kid. That isn’t basic politeness, that is incredibly wasteful, and it goes against every parent’s desire to teach kids how to share. If the camp had, say, a model train, I want kids to be able to play with it one at a time. Not some bizarro policy where we build 25 model trains so they won’t be shared. If the camp wants crayon drawing, I want the kids to be able to pick out from one of those 102 color boxes, not limit them to one of those cheapo 4 color boxes because that is the only affordable way to give everyone their own box.

        “Are you mad that you have to put effort into being considered a member of polite society?”

        No. I am mad because we are constantly sacrificing children’s developmental opportunities in a futile effort to stop the spread. Futile, because the virus doesn’t spread through contact.

        Here is an example: I volunteer to coach robotics team at the local high school. We were told that per state policy 1) an object must be sanitized between users, and 2) only adults are allowed to sanitize. So, how did that work? Each team of around a dozen students had to select only a single person to build the entire robot. Everyone else could only provide suggestions, they couldn’t touch the robot, much less help build it. The result was an absolutely dreadful season. The whole point of things like robotics team is for kids to learn how to work together and engage in shared creation. Instead, we had a half dozen kids half-heartedly sending drawings/blueprints to one super busy kid trying to assemble it all. Not surprisingly, many kids who joined in order to build robots dropped out. And for what? Absolutely NOTHING. The virus doesn’t spread through contact. Actually, the whole thing probably backfired because I’ll bet the farm that some kids got so desperate to work on the robot that they visited the builder’s house and simply made sure nobody else found out. As coaches, we would have been happy to have enforced the students building outside, wearing masks, standing six feet apart from each other. The students could have built different parts of the robot or worked on it one at a time, with occasional tool sharing. What we couldn’t support though is sanitizing the robot and tools every time a student was about to touch it. You know how many nooks and crannies a student built robot has?! And the students outnumbered the adults by 20 to 1. So, we had to limit to one builder. Which deprived most students of a valuable opportunity. For absolutely no f***ing reason.

        It is literally the job of public health officials to evaluate the evidence of the benefits and costs of every policy guideline. They refused to do that. Not considering the costs at all, best I can tell. And for benefits basically said “well, we can’t prove that contact doesn’t occasionally cause spread”, but making literally no effort to try to find out.

        Extracurriculars were ruined. Kids fell behind on school (in casual conversation, I have learned that grades have fallen off a cliff for most kids). At my school, two kids committed suicide (neither on my robotics team). We sacrificed our kids for something that had little to do with them, and public health officials have exhibited no signs of urgency to figure out which sacrifices are worth it. THAT is what I am mad about.

        1. You will become Borg.
          You must comply.
          Resistance is futile.

  30. For all the genius libertarians: Which is the greater threat to human freedom:

    The effects of climate change
    An unobtrusive temporary hygiene measure

    Show your work.

    1. You sure stole a base with that “temporary” modifier.

    2. C. Government.

    3. I am sorely tempted to mute you, but on the other hand, it is pleasing to see your stupidity pointed out every time you post.

      So I will have to think about it.

      1. The happiness of seeing his stupidity pointed out wore off a long time ago. He is muted immediately after hitting the submit button to this comment.

    4. How about power hungry, ignorant politicians, mayors and governors.
      After all they are responsible for the economic disasters that have effected millions. The destruction of small family owned businesses and millions unemployed. People now facing eviction as the Court has decreed and end to moratoriums.
      The suicides, the drug addictions and alcoholism. even children committing suicide.
      Not to mention the deaths of thousands of elderly people in New York and Michigan thanks to stupid power hungry politicians like Cuomo and Whitmer.
      Sorry. The greater threat to freedom and liberty are politicians.

  31. Yes, this is bonkers. It has always been bonkers. Our approach to the virus has been bonkers from the beginning. I mean, I understand why people fell for it. They scared us to death, threw us some “science,” and leadership at this magazine was absolutely behind the masking from the beginning.

    What’s surprising to me is that anyone would be surprised that this is where we are. Masks were never going to be temporary, and the benefits of wearing them have always been questionable. Whatever benefit we got cannot possibly outweigh the damage we have done overall. KMW recently lamented that her child is more comfortable with a mask on, but what did she expect?

    I’m heartened by the renewed sense of disgust at the micromanagement we now face, but the writers here are a day late and a dollar short.

    1. Not to mention the worst mass death event in American history.

      1. Well, what if everybody stayed indoors since March 2020? As many of the hypochondriac progs still want us to…Maybe COVID wouldn’t be the mass death event, but there sure would have been mass murder/suicide

        1. If everyone stayed indoors, dehydration would get most people before murder/suicide had a chance. How long do you think our water and electrical infrastructure would stay online if literally nobody maintained it? Trick question: there is no way in hell any company would allow the last employee to leave the plant without shutting all the equipment off first. It might be the apocalypse, but nobody wants to get sued for negligence when a fire gets started due to unmonitored equipment going haywire.

          The “just stay home”ers are only able to do so due to an army of folks who actually have to show up for work.

          1. There is a vast spectrum between everyone staying at home and going to the grocery store and taking a shit on people. All you were ever asked to do is be vigilant, and you couldn’t even handle that.

            Maybe you just can’t handle modern life. Maybe that’s your problem to deal with.

            Until you catch a contagious disease of course.

        2. You didn’t five a fleeting fuck about the suicide rate in the United States until some fat, shrieking head in right-wing media handed to you on a silver platter as a talking point.

          You don’t always have to be against everything just because Democrats are doing it. Maybe Democrats just don’t want hundreds of thousands of people to die, unlike Trump, whose latter-stage policy was to simply let the virus get everyone (starting with his own place of work).

      2. Ever heard of the Spanish Flu?

        1. Or 1957/58…

        2. Covid 19 death rate is higher than Spanish flu

      3. Not by a long shot, dumbass.

      4. That would be the Spanish Flu 1918-19, dumb fuck.

        See what I mean? It’s just too easy.

  32. This fits the insanity displayed in CDC head Rochelle Walensky’s hold on the JNJ vax, ostensibly for risk back then of 0.00088% chance of anyone having a life-threatening cranial blood clot after taking the JNJ vax. A total lack of perspective on risk. Nuts. Obscene, even.

    1. Walensky will make Jocelyn Elders look competent

  33. The CDC was established to control malaria in the southern states, which is why it is in Atlanta. It should have been sunsetted after that. Ok, maybe after smallpox was eradicated

    1. Once a government bureaucracy is created, no matter what the purpose, even if it’s no longer needed, it will remain. Forever.
      We are stuck with it. Including the likes of the DHS,TSA, FBI, CIA, NSA, ATF, IRS and so on.
      They all remain to inflict the greatest amount of harm on Americans.
      Another example is flip flop Fauci .

  34. The documents show a flurry of activity between CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, her top advisors and union officials — with Biden brass being looped in at the White House — in the days before the highly-anticipated Feb. 12 announcement on
    https://wapexclusive.com ,school-reopening guidelines . .

  35. The CDC Is Insane

  36. WTF is wrong with the left hand of the guy on the left? Missing thumb, misplaced fingers.

    1. Tony will be along shortly to point out that you hate people with handicaps, and of course you will be racist too.

      1. Heh.

  37. …that day Gov-Guns showed up at summer camp.

  38. “And again, the vaccines work. They offer almost complete protection for anyone who is worried about getting sick.”

    I find it interesting that you provided hyperlinks for several claims you made in this article, but not for this one. Why is that? Is there evidence to support this claim or is there not? To be clear, I think that the CDC guidelines are ridiculous. I am only pointing this out because I am against uncited, unsupported assertions. If you are going to state something as fact, it is important to provide evidence.

  39. This shit is so dumb, even Fauci laughed at it on the Today Show this morning.

  40. I don’t think the CDC is virtue signaling. They are just doing their job. That’s what the CDC is supposed to do. But in my opinion, each camp should run themselves the best way that they see fit. There can be camps that have no mandates and some that mandate masks and distancing. There can also be camps that allow each child to wear or not wear a mask. There can even be camps that mandate vaccinations. Parents can choose the camp they feel is best for their children and families.

    If nothing else, this can be a good test of how well we have contained the virus. We may even find that not wearing masks is no worse than wearing a mask. We may find that everyone being vaccinated and not wearing masks and not distancing is harmless because they’ve been vaccinated. But on the downside, they might find that the virus has run rampant in some camps. There may even be a few deaths, but I won’t be there so I won’t really care. There are many results to that can come from this. It would be a great experiment. I’d like to see the results. But the main point is that a parent can send their child to the camp they feel is best for them.

    1. Except that the guidelines aren’t particularly useful to the camp owner who has to balance safety with maintaining the camp experience. Any one of these rules can be reasonably followed, if it turns out that is the best way to stop the virus. Following every single one is, as everyone acknowledges, complete overkill. So, why are public health officials putting out guidance that is going to force non-medical people to pick and choose elements of a pandemic plan?

      All of this would play so much better if the CDC organized this as, say, “core recommendations” that have a very high cost-benefit and every element of which ought to be followed by every camp, “other recommendations” that can be sprinkled in to further reduce risk, if it doesn’t interfere with standard camp operations too much, and “other considerations” which are elements that would typically be overkill, can be introduced to partially compensate for situations where a camp is unable to reasonably follow a core recommendation.

      Keep the core recommendations to “good enough” and put the public health officials’ fantasies into the other sections. That way, people at least understand what stuff should be ignored.

      1. Your suggestion is reasonable. The problem is the governors, particularly in the northeast, will implement every single recommendation as law and bring their police powers to bear.

  41. All the economic ruin blamed on the virus is misdirection based on the assumption that the rulers forced only what the M.D.s advised. But who allows the initiation of violence, threats thereof, i.e., edicts? The populace. And those who resist, who think for themselves, who ask for clarification that authority cannot give? They are ignored, or worse, cancelled. The consensus is manufactured by authority (MSM), enforced by authority, for authority. Authority loves to use its sovereignty over the populace to see how far the populace can be pushed, how much crap they will submit to before they reach their breaking point, and how that will be expressed. Some do it by riots. Some by suicide. Some by open defiance. Are they finally finding their dignity, their self-respect, their confidence, their bravery? Do they realize the pandemic was a Pan-hoax? Do they realize that coercive govt. is not moral or practical? Do they want to reclaim their sovereignty and self-govern? How long will it take to make the American Dream manifest?

  42. Not happy with your regime change robby?

  43. “The CDCs guidance…is insane.”
    The worldwide political paradigm based on the initiation of force, threats, is accepted by most as a necessary evil. It isn’t. It can’t be defended by argument. It survives by the fraud (propaganda) and the fear generated. This has worked since govt. began. It is not a sane way to live. Don’t be focused on the forced policies, focus on the force. Strike at the root of the insanity.
    A non-violent, voluntary politics is the only sane way to live.

    1. Amen.

    2. I think you’d appreciate this video on youtube (not sure if I can share the link, so won’t try): “The Manufacturing of a Mass Psychosis – Can Sanity Return to an Insane World?” At this point, I think we need to create our own “parallel structures” of freedom (see minute 14 or so).

  44. I cant find the cdc anywhere in the constitution. The more people who listen to them the more authority they garner. Do not listen or obey.

    1. To be fair, nobody had ever heard of a virus when it was written.

      It boggles the mind that more people don’t entertain the absurdity of an agrarian Enlightenment-era tone poem governing a modern continent-spanning superpower with 300 million people.

      Of course we must take it seriously, since it is a contract. Just a shitty one we have to figure out how to get out of without any input from the fascists.

      1. Thanks for your honesty. None of that “living Constitution” misdirection.

    2. I can’t find the Air Force in the constitution either

  45. These rules are cruel, sadistic and insane. It would be better off to just say no summer camp than to put kids through this abusive torture. And I am someone who does support mask wearing for brief encounters indoors, and that they do help stop transmission of the virus. I am not a covid-denier, and it does kill far more than the flu. Most survive, but to say that to marginalize the people who die or crippled is cruel. But it is also cruel to force children to wear masks all day all the time, much more so than adults. Better to keep them home from camp and school than put them through that hell if bringing the virus home to a vulnerable person is a concern. For social interaction they can get that outdoors with one or two friends which is also going to be much lower risk than schools and camps. With vaccines here also I think we hopefully can end all of this so I would also urge people to get vaccinated so we can put all of this behind us and go back to normal.

    1. Unfortunately, many parents who’ve had the rugrats underfoot for over a year will send them anyway.

  46. It’s simple, really. CDC is under pressure from business desperate for revenue, but the CDC doesn’t want to be responsible for potential outbreaks. So they found a way to allow camps to open but duck responsibility by making the operation as encumbered as possible.

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