Jo Jorgensen

Jo Jorgensen: 'Requiring People To Vaccinate Their Children Is One of the Most Egregious Things That the Government Can Do'

The Libertarian ticket is campaigning against lockdowns, vaccine mandates, and the World Health Organization, in addition to the usual taxation, prohibition, and war.

|

As the Libertarian Party has established itself as the most electorally successful third party in the United States, voters have grown accustomed to the group's radical messaging against taxation, prohibition and war. One of the party's top 10 presidential primary finishers in 2020, after all, had his name legally changed to "Taxation Is Theft."

Less broadly known, though on full display in a streamed interview I conducted last night with presidential nominee Jo Jorgensen, is the party's antipathy toward international institutions, pandemic restrictions, and vaccine mandates.

Jorgensen last night volunteered the latter as an example of the type of "personal decision" best left to individuals, rather than determined via the political process. So I asked her whether, philosophically, she considered it wise for public schools to require children be vaccinated as a condition for enrollment.

"I think it is immoral," she responded. Then, after noting that she personally has chosen to vaccinate her family, Jorgensen contrasted vaccination policy with the types of prohibitions Libertarians have long opposed—on drugs, gambling, vaping, consensual sex transactions, and so on.

"All of these are laws that the government is telling you what not to do," she said. "Vaccinations, on the other hand—we're talking about somebody forcibly putting a substance into your body. I am just shocked that that's even a question in our country that is supposed to be free. And even though I have chosen vaccinations, and I've chosen vaccinations for my children, I would never use the excuse of herd immunity to force other people to put something into their bodies that they don't want to."

This is not a majority opinion—82 percent of American adults favored school-based vaccines in 2016, according to Pew Research. But Libertarians are hardly a majority party (Jorgensen is polling at around 2 percent nationally), and old movement hands can tell you how outnumbered the party used to be on positions such as legalizing marijuana.

Still, the vaccine mandate issue divides libertarians, too, as illustrated by Reason's 2014 debate "Should Vaccines Be Mandatory?" Meanwhile, the COVID-19 pandemic has not only put such once-esoteric philosophical discussions on the political front-burner; it has given what many Libertarian candidates see as their opening.

The Libertarian gubernatorial candidate making the biggest splash in 2020 is Indiana's Donald Rainwater, who has polled between 6 percent and 24 percent in a three-way race. "Indiana Libertarian candidate for governor targets voters upset by COVID-19 mandates," went the headline this week in The Indianapolis Star.

"I don't think it's the government's responsibility to tell people how to take care of themselves," Rainwater told the paper. "I think this all goes back to the idea that I get to choose what I do to keep myself safe. I am against mandating vaccines, too."

The other Libertarian gubernatorial candidate likely to make Election Day waves—Montana's Lyman Bishop, who is polling within shouting distance of the Republican-Democratic margin—is also campaigning against pandemic mandates.

"I have said from the beginning, asking people to stay home is one thing. Telling people they have to stay home is something else altogether," Bishop recently told Montana Public Radio. "The same logic applies to any other precautionary measure. In the face of any threat, our liberties an individual rights must come first. If they do not then everything we have fought for and built over the last 200 years will be meaningless….The pending collapse of our economy and the steady growth of tyranny and authoritarianism in our country is of the utmost importance and supersedes all other issues. If we cannot address these issues there will be nothing left for us to discuss."

Jorgensen last night singled out Rainwater when talking about notable Libertarian campaigns this year. "He's talking about the same things we're talking about, with masks," she said. "This is a free country, and we should be able to make our own decisions."

Rather than merely defund the World Health Organization, Jorgensen wants to the U.S. to completely withdraw from it—and from other multilateral institutions, from the World Trade Organization to the United Nations to NATO. (Her go-to foreign policy line is to have America become "one giant Switzerland.")

This summer, Libertarian Party messaging seemed to be clustering around the George Floyd protests, with the party touting its longstanding commitments to dismantling the country's prison-industrial complex. As we approach the finish line, the radical limited-government party is reacting more and more to big-government pandemic policies. The politics of face masks, it turns out, is not a strictly bipartisan affair.

You can watch my whole Jorgensen interview below:

Advertisement

NEXT: San Francisco Won't Reopen Schools. But It Will Rename Them.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

    1. speedylee, thank you! It is indeed refreshing to see some support for PRO-individual-freedom thoughts in these comments!

      Sad to say, we are (for the ? last 4 years or so) inundated here with Trumptatorshit-worshippers, who can find NO apparent outlets for their authoritarian thoughts… Other than 4-Chan, BreitFart, etc. … Those-type sites, which sane humanoids know are full of shit, and therefor, ignore… Onto which they can spill their evil and spineless bile! And THEN, after they spend NOT ONE SINGLE PENNY to pay to Reason.com or the Reason Magazine… They spend their hopefully-futile bile, agitating against Reason and their writers, and lusting mightily after the Trumptatorshit and the demise of Section 230, which enables their FREE posting of their lies and bullshit!

      This is Humanoid Unit BR549, and I just don’t know any more!

      1. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this i have earned easily $15k from this without having online working skills. This is what I do….. Click here

        1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29758 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. Sdf I Abw have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month the from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

          what I do……………………………Visit Here

          1. Google easily work and google pays me every hour and every week just $5K to $8K for doing online work from home. I am a universty student and Skj I work n my part time just 2 to 3 hours a day easily from home. Now every one can earn extra cash for doing online home system and make a good life by just open this website and follow instructions on this page….… Click here

            1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $30658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. you I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

              what I do………Click here

              1. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and AFG after joining this i have earned easily $15k from this without having online working skills. This is what I do….. .Visit Here

                1. ●▬▬▬▬ PART TIME JOBS ▬▬▬▬▬●
                  Google pays for every Person every hour online working from home job. I have received $23K in this month easily JOW and I earns every weeks $5K to 8$K on the internet. Every Person join this working easily by just just open this website and follow instructions…..

                  what I do..Copy Here══════►►► VISIT HERE

                  1. ●▬▬▬▬ PART TIME JOBS ▬▬▬▬▬●
                    Google pays for every Person every hour online working from home job. I have received $23K in this month easily JOU and I earns every weeks $5K to 8$K on the internet. Every Person join this working easily by just just open this website and follow instructions…..

                    what I do..Copy Here══════►►► More Information

      2. Zombie Junior Samples?

        1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29758 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month the from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

          what I do……………………………….Click here

        2. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

          what I do………………Click here

          1. how hard would a “click here” hyperlink aware filter to be implemented on this site?

            1. Shockingly easy, like, takes 5 minutes and there’s open source code to do it.

              1. For Christ’s sake, the spam on this site is horrid. I do not give them much credit for competence that they can’t seem to do shit about it. Or won’t.

                1. I agree, I also read Newsmax and they have a button to block authors, so you can block spammers. I suspect Reason is making money of the spam somehow.

        3. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $30658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. now I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

          what I do………Click here

      3. The relevant difference between those who want to send their children to school without being vaccinated and the radical extremist Conservative Religious Right Islamists who want to send children out wearing suicide bomb vests, is what again?

        And why do Conservatives try to defend radical extremist Conservative Religious Right Islamists by only calling them ‘radical Islam’?

        1. Hmm, let’s see. One is deliberately trying to kill people and very likely to do so whereas the other has no ill intent and is very unlikely to harm anyone.

          1. I dispute the “very unlikely to harm anyone”.

            How do I recover my medical costs for a COVID infection (or any other infection like TB) that propagated because some idiot decided not to follow relevant safety protocols. Mandatory public health regulations are a protection for the court system, not just for safety.

            I’m not saying fines and so forth are appropriate, but this isn’t a cut and dried case of “government overreach” either. Given the availability of vouchers and school choice in most states, I’d say parents who don’t want to vaccinate can send their kid to a charter school. States can waive vaccination requirements for charter schools, if needed.

            1. Bruce C.
              Parents who don’t give a damn about poisoning their children can go ahead and rush blindly into whatever they want to do to them. And then they can shut their idiot mouths and mind their own F@$%ing business about my children. Don’t like it? Tough!
              I’ll pave the streets with the bodies of anybody that thinks they are going to force that poison on my family. Anybody!

              1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…QWa after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                Here’s what I do…>> Click here

      4. SQRLSY One
        Sounds as though you’ve a bad case of Trump derangement syndrome… I’m not myself a Trumpeter but it caught my attention during the last election that he spoke out against vaccines & big pharma and that he brought in Kennedy to get to the bottom of the issue.
        I’m still not a blind follower but I think he’s been playing one hell of a chess game these past few years. He has in most every way abided by constitutional limitations. Yes, he has talked all kinds of talk, I think mostly for the benefit of the liberal nut jobs, but never acted outside his constitutional authority. He’s prosecuting deep state criminals and setting the judiciary straight for the first time in several decades…
        While Libertarian ideals are great, right now, it is Trump or Biden and there isn’t a chance in hell I’m supporting Biden. This one is for all the marbles…

    2. I get paid more than $120 to $130 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this JOW i have earned easily $15k from this without having online working skills. This is what I do….. visit here

      1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29758 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month the from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

        what I do………………………………Visit Here

      2. wouldnt you know it! right after i ask my question the hyperlink switches to ‘visit here’ 🙁

    3. I quit working at shoprite to work online and with a little effort I easily bring in around $45 to 85 per/h. Without a doubt, this is the easiest and most financially rewarding job I’ve ever had. I actually started 6 months ago and this has totally changed my life.

      For more details………………Visit Here

    4. Make 6,000 dollar to 8,000 dollar A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss AndChoose Your Own Work Hours.Thanks A lot Here>>> Read More.

    5. I quit working at shoprite to work online and with a little effort I easily bring in around $45 to 85 per/h. W8ithout a doubt, this is the easiest and most financially rewarding job I’ve ever had. I actually started 6 months ago and this has totally changed my life.

      For more details……………… Visit Here

    6. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29758 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. Sdn I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month the from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

      what I do………Visit Here

    7. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29758 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. Sdw I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month the from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

      what I do………Visit Here

    8. I Am Earning $81,100 so Far this year working 0nline and I am a full time college student and just working for 3 to 4 hours a day I’ve made such great m0ney.I am Genuinely thankful to and my administrator, It’s’ really user friendly and I’m just so happY that I found out about this…Visit here to earn thousands of dollars

  1. I can get my white supremacy at stormfront, thanks Jo.

  2. The Guardian, doing real investigative journalism.

    Libertarian 2020 candidate appears on podcast tied to ‘boogaloo’ movement
    Jo Jorgensen was quizzed by members of anti-government movement days after an adherent was arrested for allegedly murdering two law enforcement officers

    1. That was from back in July, when they still thought they might need to worry about her.

      1. Google is by and by paying $27485 to $29658 consistently for taking a shot at the web from home. I have joined this action 2 months back and I have earned $31547 in my first month from this action. I can say my life is improved completely! Take a gander at it

        what I do………Click here

  3. This. This is why we can never have nice things. Your rights end where the rights of others being. Meaning you have no right to send you unvaccinated children to the school my child attends. Don’t be parading your disease vector out in public.

    1. What makes you think I want my unvaccinated kid around your kids?! I homeschool. Stay away from me!

      1. Then you can choose not to vaccinate them at least in my state. The only mandatory vaccinations are tied to public schools. Unless you can get an exception for medical reasons.

        The whole idea of public schools is a separate issue for libertarians.

        I do not think that is unreasonable. You do not have to send your kids to a government school in the US. A private school could do the same thing. So can an employer or the military. For example if you work in a hospital they require flu shots and TB test every year.

        It is pretty much a non issue here.

        Nobody is going to force you to get a Covid vaccine if one ever exists and we figure out what to do with them. Nobody can make you wear a mask either really. My rule is if the employees are wearing them so am I.

        1. Makes $140 to $180 per day online work and i received $16994 in one month online acting from home.Abc I am a daily student and work simply one to a pair of hours in my spare time. Everybody will do that job and online makes extra cash by simply You can check more.

          open this web….Click here

      2. If you believe vaccines are effective, and vaccinate your child, then why would your child be threatened by an unvaccinated child?

        1. The ignorance, it burns!

          1. This is just more proof that rigid political ideology and critical thinking are incompatible.

        2. It is interesting that the same people who throw around the term “herd immunity” have no idea what it really means. I won’t bother explaining it again. Read about the recent measles outbreak in the orthodox Jewish community if anyone is interested.

        3. Read up on herd immunity. If there are enough un-vaccinated people, a disease can become endemic in the population and spread to newborns as well as those whose immunity has degraded over time.

    2. I forget whether this is Reason #544 or #545 for school choice.

      1. Is Jos? stance the same for masks?

        1. Well that was placed incorrectly.

          1. Both your brain AND your heart are placed WAAAY incorrectly! But neither the Heavens nor the Earth will EVER be able to overcome Your Sacred False Pride, and allow You to admit it! You, who lusts endlessly after the Trumptatorshit!

            1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…CMs after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

              Here’s what I do…>> Click here

          2. JesseSPAZ, Lord and Master of All Things, NEVER needs to actually REFUTE what a source says… He merely needs to accuse them of not being libertarians!

            JesseSPAZ is a “libertarian” who believes that the Trumptatorshit is a PERFECT example of being TRULY libertarian!

            https://reason.com/2020/02/07/michael-bloomberg-and-the-imperious-presidency-2/#comment-8120734

            JesseSPAZ comment: “He can fire political appointees for any fucking reason he wants.”
            Jesse’s over-archingly lusting after the super-powers of the Trumptatorship YET AGAIN!!!
            Trump can fire them for not assigning their entire paychecks to Trump… For not licking Trump’s balls as much as JesseSPAZ does… For turning down Trump’s requests for then to perform personal murder-for-hire… For having fucked Stormy Daniels out of turn, when it was Trump’s turn… For Air Force Captain-Sir-Dude-Sir-Pilot-Sir refusing orders to go and bomb Nancy Pelosi’s house…

            Just when I was rooting for JesseSPAZ to turn from his evil ways, he doubles down on Trumptatorship-worship AGAIN!

            1. I get 2 shit eating posts from the racist? I feel special.

            2. Orangemanbad, Sqrls.

              1. The Hihn-sock is getting more agitated as the US POTUS race draws to a close.

    3. If your kid is vaccinated, why do you care if mine is?

      The edge case is risk to children who are too young to be vaccinated, and therefore rely on herd immunity.

      But that’s not about access to schools.

      Mathematically this is a non issue if only libertarian kooks oppose vaccination.

      But if a sufficient number of people oppose vaccination, such as to pose a threat to your kids in school, then maybe you need to question your assumptions about the power of government and the structure of our schools?

      1. There are also issues of immunodeficient children who can’t be vaccinated, and thus also rely on herd immunity

        I’m not opposed to vaccination requirements for admission to public schools, IMO like any organization if the government is going to operate schools they are free to set requirements for admission

        My problem comes when government both requires vaccinations for public schools, and actively seeks to stamp out alternatives like private and home schooling

        1. Kevin is right. If schooling is to be a compulsory part of childhood, there should be a choice of which school to attend, at home or in a building.

          If it’s in a building, there should be a medical requirement that protects all the children. And that’s fine. Nothing coercive.

          You’re always free to keep your kids home and teach them there unvaccinated.

          So I agree with Kevin that the option should be available and that the libertarian answer to this isn’t to remove vaccine mandates, it’s to promote choices in schooling.

        2. Thank you for that dose of rationality.

      2. If your kid is vaccinated, why do you care if mine is?

        Because vaccines aren’t 100% effective, and America is generally comprised of panicky idiots.

        This wasn’t something we were allowed to talk about in polite company until it became an anti-Trump talking point.Thanks, Kamala.

        1. Fail. The sassy awkward question is perfectly valid. But herd collectivism as influenced by social pressure makes cowards seek to coerce those lacking that manly virtue. Stick your own kid with what bureaucrats assure you is settled science. Think of it as evolution in action.

      3. If your kid is vaccinated, why do you care if mine is?

        Also, setting aside that all taxation is theft; taking my money, giving me part of what I paid for and then saying I have to jump through hoops to get the rest and/or I don’t get my money back is called bait-and-switch.

    4. Damn right! The government should be permitted to hold you down and force you to be injected with chemicals against your consent! Individual decisions must be made together!

      1. Yes, Comrade! All is for The Hive, and all MUST BEE for the Hive!

        ALL HAIL The Hive! Long Live the Hive!

        1. Orangemanbad, Sqrls.

    5. I agree with you that public schools should be able to require vaccination, but I don’t think your reasoning works.

      Where does this right to only be around vaccinated people come from? And if it is a right, why doesn’t it end when other people’s right to bodily integrity begins?

      1. Public schools can require vaccination as soon as we end compulsory education.

        1. You aren’t required to send your kids to public schools. But I’m all for abolishing them.

        2. I’m still in favor of public funding for education, i’d just rather have vouchers for all. And then if a school wants to cater to anti-vaxxers that’s their business.

          1. I agree with this. The government has an obligation to provide its citizens with the means to effectively interact with it.That includes a degree of numeracy/literacy which can follow the instructions for our tax returns.

            We’re stuck with some kind of public education apparatus Until the government shrinks its footprint to preliteracy levels. Figure out a way to make it work more effectively.

          2. “I’m still in favor of public funding for education, i’d just rather have vouchers for all. And then if a school wants to cater to anti-vaxxers that’s their business.”

            What if the school wants to discriminate against minorities? Gay students or students with a gay parent? Jews, or other non-Christians? What if the school refuses to accommodate students with disabilities? If school choice includes the schools making choices about what students to accept, then it is against the fundamental mission of public education – equality of opportunity.

            What if the school wants to take those taxpayer dollars to indoctrinate students in religion, environmentalism, creationism, white supremacy, jihadist Islam, Holocaust denial, Critical Race Theory, or whatever else you may object to? Public schools use materials and curriculum subject to public scrutiny and input and requirements set by legislators. For all of the talk of the left indoctrinating students in public schools, red states and conservative districts have a long history of doing just that. Even today, in 2020, there are still plenty of creationists out there fighting teaching real science in public schools, and it doesn’t stop with science.

            Then there is something I hear all the time regarding subsidies for higher education from the right and libertarians – that it just inflates costs. Will private schools accepting vouchers be able to charge more than the voucher? That just makes it a subsidy. The poor would still be stuck with inferior education to those with more money of their own to spend. Education can’t level the playing field of opportunity if education itself isn’t a level playing field.

            1. The point of public education isn’t only to level the playing field. There is a public and private benefit in having a well-educated workforce and voter population. So even people who don’t have kids benefit from public education. Whether public schools are achieving the minimum skill set requirements for these goals is a separate issue.

            2. >> what if the school wants to discriminate against minorities etc?

              It’s already illegal for private businesses to do that, and that’s fine.

              >> what if they want to spend taxpayer dollars to indoctrinate?

              We already spend taxpayer dollars to do that. I’d rather people who disagree philosophically just choose to teach their children different things, instead of fighting tooth and nail over whose beliefs will be the ones taught in the public schools.

              >> if people can pay on top of the voucher won’t this just cause inflation?

              I’m not sure, and I’d have to think about it.

    6. What other authoritarian powers do you want government to have before you come put from under your bed?

    7. you have no right to send you unvaccinated children to the school my child attends

      You do if the school allows it and no one is forced to go to the school.

    8. “you have no right to send you unvaccinated children to the school my child attends.”

      Does my child need to bring an umbrella to school to shelter yours from the rain and sunshine? Does he need to walk with your kid to school to guard your precious dear from snakes, cars and coyotes?

      It is wrong to force me or my child to protect your child from a natural phenomena. It is as wrong as forcing me to give you health care, or feed you. My body, and the body of my children are not your property, and you are wrong to force us to use it in a way that lowers your own risk.

      1. As I saw elsewhere, it is arguments like this that make libertarianism such a niche ideology. You take an extreme view of what liberty and freedom mean that the Founders wouldn’t recognize. It is nearly absolute, such that any sense of responsibility to the larger society must be completely voluntary. I saw the meme once, and it is quite true. You would see a sign in the road and expect it to say this:

        “Bridge out ahead, turn back now! Unless, of course, you feel that would violate your rights, in which case, you are free to keep going.”

        I would think that thinking people understand that freedom isn’t free, not just in the sense of being willing to fight for it, but that it comes with responsibility. The idea of self government requires that people actually govern their own behavior, whether as individuals or through laws they agree to follow. If you don’t want an arbitrary power telling you what’s good for you, then you had best show that you’ll act rationally and do the right thing on your own.

    9. How do you define where the rights of others begin? Since when do we have a right not to get sick? Am I oppressing you if I go shopping without a mask? Or are you oppressing me by requiring me to wear a mask to go shopping?

      I agree that the rights of others are the line, but I disagree that we have a right to live without risk of illness. You want to make sure you don’t get sick? Wear gloves and masks everywhere and bathe in hand sanitizer.

      1. Well said.

      2. This is why we need to put the original birth control plank back in the platform. Women are repelled by the cowardly, bootlicking straddle that replaced our Roe v Wade plank of 1972. Yet any who grace us with a visit are clearly worth two of what aren’t passable for men in this forum.

      3. “I agree that the rights of others are the line, but I disagree that we have a right to live without risk of illness.”

        The balancing act you are portraying is one that is reasonable if it is based on evidence and rational thought. The mask debate has had hardly any of that, though. I see too many examples of people calling for “freedom” to not wear a mask mostly because they don’t want to admit that COVID is a problem or other political rationalizations.

        Then, if it really is a matter of freedom of choice, then what about employers and public officials that demand that masks not be worn? A real estate CEO in Texas told employees not to wear masks at work. An employee that was recovering from pneumonia was under instructions from her doctors to wear a mask in public for two weeks and the boss still didn’t want her wearing one. When she showed the doctor’s instructions in writing, he moved her from her receptionist position in the front office to a room in the back away from any customers. Then there was the sheriff and judge that wouldn’t allow deputies or the public to wear masks in their buildings. Is the libertarian stance okay with this? Will these people be called out for being authoritarian the same way that those calling for mandated masks are?

    10. I see Brandy is in charge of the authoritarian response today.

    11. Your rights end where the rights of others being. Meaning you have no right to send you unvaccinated children to the school my child attends. Don’t be parading your disease vector out in public.

      As always, the answer to this is to get rid of public schools. Problem solved.

    12. If your kids are vaccinated, what do you care?

      1. Again, a perfectly valid, yet awkward, question the Moseley faction can neither cope with nor send thugs in to silence. Well spoken!

    13. Or you could say the public school has no right to discriminate against one child over another due to medical reasons. Which there are already laws for, just like religion.

      You also seem to be too dumb to realize that if your kid is vaccinated for a certain disease he should have nothing to worry about from a child who wasn’t vaccinated for that disease. Unless your saying you got your kid vaccinated with something you aren’t even sure is effective or safe, in which case you’re a shitty mother.

    14. I agree that mandatory attendance laws should be abolished immediately.

      1. Every child of appropriate age must be enrolled in a school, public or private, that meets minimum standards of effective instruction or be participating in a legal homeschool option that is documented.

        The reason for mandatory attendance in this fashion is that every child has a right to an adequate education. Even a parent cannot violate that right and deny the child an education that is necessary to have an opportunity for independence and success as an adult.

        Parents have the right to a presumption that they will act in the best interests of the child, but that right is not absolute.

        1. The principal rationale for compulsory education and adoption of the Prussian factory model of public schooling was social control and conformity, using scientific methods to instill docility and subordinate the individual to industry, the state, and the Zeitgeist: good little workers, good little soldiers, good little citizens. Did progressive theorists market the system as providing an adequate education to all? Yes, adequate for their stations in life, but they were also contemptuous of parents who would educate their children in a different manner.

    15. The problem would not exist if we did not have so called “public” schools which are really government schools. The true Libertarian compromise would be to require vaccination for government schools but provide compensation so that those who do not want to have theirs kids vaccinated, or have any other reason for not wanting to send their kids there. Tax relief for those not sending their kids to government schools is the easiest quick fix.

  4. I had been planning to vote for her, but anti-vaxxing is rather hard to stomach.

    1. Yeah, and plus I heard that she’s against government mandated military service. I can’t vote for someone who’s anti-patriotic and hates the troops….

    2. She’s not anti-vax (not in the sense that the term is typically used) she’s anti-mandated vaccinations

      1. But the people who refuse vaccines are the only ones who would need to be forced.

        1. So what? That doesn’t mean she is an Anti-Vaxer. I don’t believe you should be forced to keep your trap shut. That doesn’t mean I am a leftist.

          1. I just don’t know why the stubborn obnoxious outliers should be the ones who get their way.

            1. You hate children. Why the hell do you even care?

              1. I hate children because they have the annoying predisposition of breathing on me and not washing their hands.

                1. You sound like the kids I interacted with in third grade. “Don’t breathe on me!”

                  1. Google paid for all online work from home from $ 16,000 to $ 32,000 a month. The younger brother was out of work for three months and a month ago her check was $ 32475, working at home for 4 hours a day, and earning could be even bigger….

                    So I started……………………. Click here

                2. So, children are dirty and icky, but anal sex is AOK? If you say so.

                3. Why am I suddenly reminded of the kindly old W.C. Fields?

                  1. “Why am I suddenly reminded of the kindly old W.C. Fields?”

                    [Children] are very good with mustard. — WCF

                4. And dogs. They are much worse.

                  Life is messy isn’t it? That is the fun part.

                  Ice cream popsicles on the porch with the four year old on a hot day. What a mess.

                  Don’t worry we have the garden hose. I am grandpa. I outrank your mother. No problem. We just laugh about it and get wet.

                  Showing the six year old that the daddy long legs can’t hurt you. See put it on my arm and it can’t bite people. Oh, she sees and spends the next hour doing the same thing. Some things you cannot learn in school.

                  Tony we pass on from one generation to the next.

            2. “I’m all for free speech, but I don’t know why racists should be allowed to spew hate.”

              The unpopular application is exactly the point of the protection. Unfortunate truth: it’s as much their country as it is theirs.

            3. I just don’t know why the stubborn obnoxious outliers should be the ones who get their way.

              This is basically the attitude of all super majorities toward fringe elements.

              This is literally what they said about gay people 50 years ago.

              1. Yikes, an anti-vaccine pride parade sounds like a terrible idea.

            4. i wonder that same thing about people in the vanguard of the progressive movement every day.

    3. Note, she vaccinated her own kids. Try again.

    4. Should all vaccines be mandatory? Jail time or fines for skipping the flu shot? How about HPV, or shingles?

      1. If not, then should all anti-vaxxers be responsible for the adverse healthcare sequelae of their decisions? HPV causes cervical and head and neck cancer (oral cavity/pharynx). Should treatment still be covered? Would you get an insurance company to even cover it? This applies to most areas of public health where state-imposed requirements verifiably reduce the risks and associated public costs of the adverse consequences of said risky activity. Much the same way as motorcyclists who choose not to wear helmets, or motorists who refuse to wear seat belts shouldn’t get trauma care paid for their injuries sustained as a consequence of their “non-compliance.” So, while choice is great, it does have consequences. Now you can go down the rabbit hole of how much risk, and how much responsibility is associated with each “non-compliance.” Whoops, who decides that? A statist I am most definitely not, but I don’t want to pay for anyone else’s “right” to not wear a helmet or get vaccinated either. Isn’t that an infringement on my rights, which end where yours begin? And vice-versa.

    5. Not anti-vax, just pro-choice.

    6. She’s not anti-vax though. She’s anti-mandatory-vax. Which is a perfectly cromulent libertarian position.

      And no, you don’t have a right to never get a communicable disease.

  5. How is it possible, Matt, you won’t vote for Trump? What is it that Trump has done that would make you not vote for him? Whatever it is, you’ve never articulated it strongly.

    Jorgensen might provide you some issues you agree with, but Trump would be the same on those issues. And he can win, she can’t.

    Proliferation of guns, check. Climate change overblown, check (Jorgensen doesn’t even mention it on her website). Withdraw from Climate Accords, check. Masks aren’t necessary, check. Herd immunity approach, check. Tax breaks to the wealthy, check.

    In fact, here is one thing from Jo’s website that Trump and you will never agree with:

    “The federal government gives about $15 billion annually to oil and coal companies. And this doesn’t even include the cheap public land leases that disproportionately go to these companies. This is nothing but corporate welfare.”

    Trump is really your guy. You’re one of those people who never tell a pollster that they’d vote for Trump, but do anyway. At least your commenters are honest about how much they love him.

    1. I mean, ok ok, when Trump instructed his AG to indict and prosecute his political foes (Biden and Obama), that would be enough for any libertarian to flee him. But you never complained. What gives?

      1. Obama wasn’t his political opponent.

        And neither was Biden you fucking ignoraums. Seeing as how he hadn’t won any primaries yet, it could have been any of the other Dems he was running against.

        1. Hmmmm. This was in October.

          “With less than one month until the election, President Donald Trump is calling for his attorney general to indict his challenger, former Vice President Joe Biden, for the “greatest political crime in the history of our country.”

          Primaries over for months. Presidential election underway. Designate lost…as usual.

          https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-calls-ag-barr-indict-joe-biden-26-days-until-election-1537518

          Best,
          Jack

          1. Damn, well I have egg all over my face for thinking you were referring to last year.

            Apologies.

            1. No probs! It’s Friday night! Have a beer or martini and enjoy!!!

    2. Well I had intended to post Welch’s own screed against Trump, which can be found sort of here. Except their own moderation system blocked their own link.

      2020/10/04/the-case-against-trump-donald-trump-is-an-enemy-of-freedom

      1. Thanks for that…I mean that. I missed it. Sounds like he’s really concerned.

        But let me vent…that all may be true, but Matt still does agree with much Trump stands for. And he will have a choice as to who will be President. It won’t be Jo. And between Biden and Trump, Trump would have to be a Matt’s guy. You can stand on principle but that isn’t pragmatic.

        But standing on principle is a valid choice. Well done! Thanks!

    3. If I were stupid enough to vote for a politician rather than to scare politicians into backing away from coercion–or there were no such choice… in other words, if reality were not what it is Boss Trump’s fascist party might not be any worse than voting for the communist looters, but worse than staying home. Yet in the real world, by voting for libertarian all the say down the ballot, my vote is suddenly worth A LOT, and packs about twenty times the law-changing clout. This is ordinary history plus 8th-grade math. Searsh “Why voting Libertarian Works” or “The Case for Voting Libertarian.” This is NOT difficult to understand provided you think outside the socialist bubble.

  6. I bet Ron Bailey is happy he lied and actually voted for Biden/Harris.

  7. Honestly this is a dumb position. It is quite clear if not required many parents won’t bother inoculating their kids. Then we’ll be faced with some worse diseases than fucking covid-19.

    I had relatives who told me some of the shit people dealt with before vaccinations were widespread. It was not something people today have a concept of exactly. Maybe when 2 in 5 kids die before the age of five they will wake up to reality. Anti-vaxxers are about as stupid as smokers.

    1. “It is quite clear if not required many parents won’t bother inoculating their kids.”

      Pretty much NO WHERE forces parents to vaccinate their kids today. And yet somehow enough parents have chosen to vaccinate their kids that we have eliminated 90% of the deadly diseases that killed kids throughout history.

      1. And BTW: If you are a parent, you probably THINK your school requires vaccinations. Most do not. Most allow you to file paperwork that you are an objector and they still have to allow your kids in. There have been attempts to change this in California and a few other states, but last I checked it was the same as when I started sending my kids in.

        (Full disclosure: I vaccinate the shit out of my kids.)

        1. I have a sister in law who was crippled by polio. She was a March of Dimes kid pictured in the national campaigns leaning on her crutches which she used until she couldn’t get up out of her wheelchair anymore. Nobody had to force people to get the polio vaccine in the 50s. My kid got every recommended vaccine after my wife and I weighed the risks and benefits. We didn’t need the threat of state violence to reach that decision. Jo is absolutely right. Government violence is immoral and it doesn’t magically become moral because your neighbors decide not to vaccinate their kids.

          1. Without universal childhood vaccinations, you wouldn’t be able to be comfortable having an afternoon of fun with your children in a public park or school playground.

            The success of libertarian ideas relies on intelligence and common sense. But, unfortunately, the average parent is a fucking idiot and lazy as hell. They fill their kids with junk and fast food, don’t teach them to revere learning, allow kids to be glued to screens, and let them grow up to become TikTok assholes. They clearly would skip vaccinations, if not required.

            And then we’d have a society split with a mix of disease spreaders and vaccinated people. Stores would put up signs and hire security to limit admission to vaccinated. Police would get called to parks in an effort to rid it of unvaccinated children. Mayhem would ensue.

            1. Did you miss the part where pretty much nowhere actually requires people to vaccinate their kids? Most people get that they are useful and minimally dangerous. I don’t think that is likely to change.

              1. Pretty much every state has childhood vaccination requirements for public schools admittance, along with compulsory education laws. De facto compulsory universal vaccinations. Perhaps you weren’t aware.

                1. No, I am aware of all that. But parents can generally claim that their beliefs don’t allow them to vaccinate their children and get an exemption.
                  Why do you think that not having a requirement would lead to bigger problems? Most people have their kids vaccinated because they think it is a good thing to do.

    2. Maybe when 2 in 5 kids die before the age of five they will wake up to reality.

      That change is primarily due to hygiene and antibiotics, not vaccinations.

      Anti-vaxxers are about as stupid as smokers.

      Objecting to government mandated vaccinations is not the same as objecting to vaccinations.

    3. Smokers generally know how bad smoking is.

  8. When your political movement advocates for a “herd immunity strategy” and then also advocates for not vaccinating, you start to wonder if you’re not a goddamn apocalyptic cult.

    1. “advocates for not vaccinating”

      Who is advocating for not vaccinating? Shirley you aren’t THIS stupid? This country has largely licked childhood infectious disease with completely voluntary vaccinations for the past 100 years. Advocating that we continue this voluntary system will likely keep us safe for 100 more.

      Besides, haven’t you heard the marching orders from Vox or Pelosi or whomever lately? Government Vaccines are bad now. Keep up.

      1. He really didn’t.

        1. He did indeed

          1. As always, y’all conflate not wanting people to be forced to do something with not wanting that thing done at all.

            And you’re wrong. Every. Single. Time.

            1. But force is necessary mostly for those of you who refuse to follow the rules. What are you even talking about? We shouldn’t have laws against murder because you really hate murder and that should be enough?

              1. And along comes Tony to prove what a disingenuous authoritarian twat he is.

                We know the only thing stopping your from murdering people is a law. That doesn’t mean the rest of us are as morally bankrupt.

                1. So that’s a “no, we shouldn’t have laws against murder”?

        2. Yes he did. But YOU go ahead and get forced to drink Reverend Jim Jones’ purple medication. We’ll look on it as evolution in action.

    2. In this thread: we learn that a sudden 0.6% population decline will bring about the apocalypse.

      In a previous thread: we learned that a gradual 5% decline in population will not be enough to stave off the apocalypse.

  9. Hahaha!

    Cathy Young

    It’s a shame there’s no Soviet Union for her to move back to.

    1. She’s crazy.

    2. That’s the dealbreaker for her? really. jesus.

      Her policy positions are 100x better than either Trump OR Biden. But Cathy is going to vote Biden rather than Jo, because of forced vaccination stance (which the Presdient has nothing to do with!).

      Nah, she was gonna vote Biden before Jo made this comment.

  10. My child was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 2. She couldn’t medically be vaccinated until years later when she wasn’t immunocompromised. She could have died if not for herd immunity though “forced” inoculations.

    So go feed yourself through a wood chipper..

    1. When Kamala Harris is forced by the Senate Sergeant-at-Arms to receive the Trump Vaccine injection administered by Anthony Fauci on live TV…..

      1. Even then, they could fake it.

    2. I am not in the anti-vaxxer school, but parents should be aware that a very small percentage of small children will die — not “could have died” — from the vaccine itself.

    3. My child was diagnosed with cancer at the age of 2. She couldn’t medically be vaccinated until years later when she wasn’t immunocompromised. She could have died if not for herd immunity though “forced” inoculations.

      There are literally hundreds of highly contageous childhood viruses we have no vaccines for. If your primary protection for your child was herd immunity for a couple of childhood diseases, you were a lousy and irresponsible parent.

      1. This. This virus was so blown out of proportion people can’t keep perspective and contextualize we LIVE among viruses and bacteria. Our skin is made up of dead bacteria and microbes. Viruses are 1.5 billion years old and yet we still stand. Vaccines only came in the 50s!

        Parents who mask their kids up are ignorant jerk offs projecting their fears onto them engaging in psychological abuse.

        1. “Our skin is made up of dead bacteria and microbes.”

          And here I wasted how many semesters learning about the dermis, epidermis, keratinocytes, melanocytes, langerhans cells, the subtle interplay of capillaries, neurons, the autonomic responses in the central nervous system related to skin function, immune function, all for nothing.

          “Skin is made up of dead bacteria and microbes.”

          It is a complex organ and I am no expert but it is not what you said.

          1. LMAO…that was pretty funny. All that Med school money blown. 🙂

        2. Unless you’re an impersonation of Rufus, I’m surprised you’d have such a silly comment.

    4. And yet over 75% of people in all 50 states are vaccinated. No coercion or force required.

      https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/vaccination-rates-by-state

      authoritarian

    5. Right after you.

  11. ” “I have said from the beginning, asking people to stay home is one thing. Telling people they have to stay home is something else altogether,” Bishop recently told Montana Public Radio. “The same logic applies to any other precautionary measure. ”

    What about stop signs, you childish dumbass?

    Do you object to traffic lights and no-parking-in-intersection signs, you anti-social dullard?

    What about center lines, you inconsequential misfit?

    You can bitch about it all you wish, but you will comply with vaccination requirements — or get to tell your cellies all about it.

    1. ^ Kirkland making the case for Trump.

      1. He’s supporting mandatory vaccinations for a virus that’s in line with the flu and a 99.85% survival rate. Not surprised though since he’s a pathetic, bigoted coward.

        1. Donald Trump himself is on tape debunking his own lie about how it’s roughly as bad as the flu.

          There’s no excuse for you to have facts wrong on something so important even if it is merely coming from Laura Ingraham’s screeching, but the president admitted to lying to you about it dude. How on earth are you people this impervious to reality? I feel bad for you. They told you all of journalism and science was a hoax meant to steal your precious bodily fluids and now you can’t think straight enough to toast a slice of bread anymore.

          1. So, now we are supposed to take what Trump says as truth?

    2. You can bitch about it all you wish, but you will comply with vaccination requirements — or get to tell your cellies all about it.

      Will my cellie be like that hot guy from Oz?

      What is the attractiveness of the male prison population anyway? It sounds like you have a lot of experience with that, Arthur.

  12. Libertarians will never get elected because Americans hate liberty. The idea that someone isn’t in charge of those darn people you don’t like is unbearable.

    1. I fear that across the US/Commonwealth this is indeed the case.

    2. Americans hate dying painfully more than they love a totally meaningless liberty. Call us crazy.

      1. Tony, why do you read reason? Why do you dive head first into the comments? Either you have principled disagreements or you’re just a troll. (I suspect the latter.)

        Either way, you’re making the world a shittier place. You aren’t convincing anyone.

        I feel sorry for you, actually. I come to this site because I am mostly libertarian and, once in a while, there will be a good discussion in a comment thread. You come here to be an asshat because I guess you have nothing else to do.

        1. I used to come here because libertarians, while hopelessly wrong about everything, were at least some right-wingers I could talk to, unlike those who populate the rest of the internet and can’t get through a sentence without opining about how the n******s are committing white genocide. Alas, the real libertarians must have gone somewhere else as the Trumptards have taken over this place. Or maybe libertarianism always was just rightwing fascism with some Koch money earmarked for PR.

          1. That’s a consequence of believing in freedom of speech. You have to give people the right to be wrong. Sometimes it looks and feels like they are taking over the place but you can tell they haven’t in a really simple way: You‘re not banned. We’ll call you an idiot, we will mercilessly pick apart everything you write, but no libertarian would ever question your right to come here and blast your intellectual equivalent of diarrhea all over these comment threads. Good ideas don’t win over bad ones by shutting them up. That just forces them into an echo chamber. You’re always welcome here Tony, even if we can’t stand you, because you certainly aren’t going to see the light posting in the comment threads for Salon or some shit.

            1. But I suggest that as a big-government liberal I am miles closer to being a libertarian than the many, many fascists who comment here. Trump is a deal-breaker when it comes to claims of sanity. The man is barely literate, and he’s a fascist. Don’t support him.

              Or, if being a libertarian was always all about tax and regulatory cuts even if the world burns down, then perhaps sanity wasn’t ever in the cards.

              1. But I suggest that as a big-government liberal I am miles closer to being a libertarian than the many, many fascists who comment here. Trump is a deal-breaker when it comes to claims of sanity. The man is barely literate, and he’s a fascist. Don’t support him.
                I agree completely. Donald Trump is no friend of liberty and even if he is the lesser of two evils as many claim the difference between him and the other evils he is supposedly lesser than are so minuscule as to make figuring out the difference not worth the time. As you say, there are hard limits when it comes to acceptability. At some point, a choice becomes SO bad that the morally correct thing to do is to fight against making it and seek a third option, even if in vain; die in the good fight rather than live in the bad one. Some people ask if the constitution is a suicide pact. I believe on some level, it is. Not on the individual one. Individuals are free to leave, but the state should exist to live free or die.

                Or, if being a libertarian was always all about tax and regulatory cuts even if the world burns down, then perhaps sanity wasn’t ever in the cards.
                America was a radical idea in 1776. It’s still a radical idea today. People can and do continue to argue about whether it was a good idea and there are meritorious arguments to many sides of it. Personally, I think that a state wherein people are subjected to their own destiny and can control their own conditions is ultimately the best state, and that’s where I would choose to live. You’re not forced to live here with me, but this country was founded as a place for such people. Someone might say “Well, go do your little freedom land somewhere else by yourself where you can’t hurt me.” but… that’s what colonists were doing. You live in that place now. This is the designated area for the liberty wackos who wanted to build a country. I fully realize the history of America is more complicated than that, but that is definitely one lens through which it can be viewed.

                1. I deeply value the individualistic ethos that informs American mythology, I just think it’s bad form to pull up the ladder once I got mine, since, as you imply, that promise wasn’t quite achievable by many people at the start and securing it for those left out remains an unfinished project.

  13. Jo Jorgensen: ‘Requiring People To Vaccinate Their Children Is One of the Most Egregious Things That the Government Can Do’

    Oh, honey, if that’s what you think, you have led a protected privileged life.

    Rest assured, there are far, far more egregious things that governments do every single day, including the US government.

  14. True, deep dish, Mexican ass libertarians don’t wear masks. I’ve never worn one despite the imbecilic mandates and never will. They can take those superstitious mouth amulet diapers and shove them up their pant shitting asses.

    Happy place….happy place….happy place…..sees person in a car alone with a mask…..SERENITY NOW…..SERENITY NOW….

  15. Any objective discussion about mandatory child vaccinations should differentiate between different types of vaccines.

    For the past five decades. most K-12 public schools have mandated childhood vaccinations for MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) and DPT (Diptheria, Pertussis/Whooping Cough, Tetanus). These vaccines have proven very safe and effective.

    In contrast, I’m not aware that any state or local government that has ever mandated an influenza vaccine for school attendance. Influenza vaccines change each year, and some haven’t proven to be very effective.

    During the past decade, Big Pharma and pediatricians have been lobbying different states to require school students to get a recently approved (and very effective) vaccine for human papillomavirus virus (HPV), which is sexually transmissible and very prevalent among Americans (and other humans).

    As a libertarian leaning public health advocate for the past 35 years, I support mandates for MMR and DPT vaccines for children to attend schools, but not mandates for HPV or influenza vaccines.

    1. I’d also oppose mandates for children to be vaccinated for Covid (if/when FDA approves one or more vaccines) for at least several years, after extensive surveillance and research demonstrates its safety and effectiveness.

      1. Bill. There are no recommendations for a vaccine based on new technology which does not yet exist as a proven thing. So not much to talk about mandates at this point.

        If you plot out any graph there is always the axis of time to think about. Time is always an independent variable.

    2. Ok but if you had a lick of common sense you would get them the HPV vaccine at the recommended age. Around 11-12 then a booster.

      Influenza is another topic.

      1. I strongly support HPV vaccines for teens, but I oppose laws mandating all children must have them to attend school.
        Teens aren’t very likely to contract HPV at school (unless they have sex, which has been known to occur, but not so much these days).

        Some conservatives oppose mandatory HPV vaccines because they claim it encourages teens to have sex (knowing they won’t get HPV) and promotes sexual promiscuity.

    3. As a grad student in 1980s, I studied data and saw pictures of sick and dying children of these preventable (and largely eradicated), I suggest everyone do some research on these diseases before they publicly oppose reasonable and responsible vaccine requirements for public school children.

      The last thing we need are measles outbreaks.

      1. This strikes me as very similar to the idea of requiring women going in for an abortion to view pictures of aborted fetuses and watch a video of a late term abortion.

        1. Except he was just making a suggestion. Which seems like a good one.

    4. *It has been a bit since I’ve looked up the relevant laws, so apologies if this is not current*

      This boils down to degrees of externalities and libertarians inability to come up with a coherent frame of reference to deal with them.

      If someone had airborne ebola, would the state be within its powers to enforce quarantine? You could make the argument yes, same types of justifications follow for prisons (protection of the public), not to mention an incapability to deal with the consequences should you infect someone else (or at least not disclose you were infected so people could make an informed choice whether to deal with you or not), appeals to some currently not existing insurance to the contrary.

      And in a similar vein the calls for mandatory vaccination- if the state can’t force vaccination, do they have the authority (indeed, maybe even the obligation) to quarantine you indefinitely until you are no longer contagious (or accept treatment)?

      Mandatory vaccination is just simpler all-the-way around*

      *A few states have laws for indefinite quarantine unless you accept treatment for a serious communicable disease. While not the same, mandatory vaccination is in the same ballpark.

      1. This boils down to degrees of externalities and libertarians inability to come up with a coherent frame of reference to deal with them.

        All ideologues have an inability to deal with problems the solution to which does not involve the invocation of an absolute principle, but rather a necessary compromise between two intolerable poles. The world is full of situations in which the answers “always yes” and “always no”, including those involving the terms of interpersonal behavior, each lead to Hell.

        1. Uh-huh.

          Socialist have gone so far as computer algorithms address information problems arising from the lack of markets to cooperative frameworks to bring markets in line with socialist goals.

          Anarchism has the myriad of hyphenate variants encompassing everything from total government to finely manicured forks, most of which still fit within the precepts of anarchism.

          Even democracy has everything from constitutional limits, demarchy, republics, etc. to address the tyranny of the majority.

          And then there is popular libertarianism, which can’t even rectify a few hundred years of thought on public health (hell, even the concept of public health unless it is those immigrants bringing their evil socialism with them), claiming everyone else is just as bad.

      2. >If someone had airborne ebola, would the state be within its powers to enforce quarantine?

        At that point I wouldn’t *care* what the state had the power to do. You could throw me in jail later for kidnapping, if you could find a jury that would convict.

  16. Start now earning extra $16,750 to $19,000 per month by doing an easy home based job in part time only. Last month i have got my 3rd paycheck of $17652 by giving this job only 3 hrs a day online on my Mobile. Every person can now get this today and makes extra cash by follow details her==► Read More  

  17. Being Anti-vax is an instant “STUPID” stamp on Jo’s forehead as far as I’m concerned.

    1. Hers is not an anti-vax position.

      1. The fact that this has been pointed out multiple times at this juncture strongly suggests she has a communications problem.

        1. No it means that some have a hearing problem.

    2. Not understanding her position on govt-mandated vaccination of citizens is an instant “STUPID” stamp on your forehead as far as I’m concerned.

  18. I see nothing wrong with a school asking you to vaccinate your child, so everyone is safe, before they can be accepted. If you don’t like it, just choose to educate your child at home.
    Plus Switzerland has been part of the WTO and the United Nations for years. That woman obviously doesn’t know what she talks about.

    1. The problem is that home/private schooling isn’t completely separate from public schooling. Their kids will play at parks and playgrounds that public school children use. They’ll accompany parents to shops and restaurants, interacting with other children and adults.

      So there isn’t a fair case for refusing childhood vaccinations, absent medical restriction in an immunocompromised child.

      1. Agree but also disagree. The ‘you must vaccinate your child because they might infect others’ is not far from of ‘you must refrain from unapproved dangerous practices because the government might someday be stuck paying for your health care’. That’s a collectivist argument.

        I believe that the right individualist argument (for a libertarian) is that your child has the right to basic care and sustenance and, at this point, childhood vaccinations are part of that package. These vaccinations are time-tested, known to be extremely safe and effective against infectious diseases that once killed large numbers of children. Any child has a right to those basic treatments. For a parent not to vaccinate is a violation of the libertarian harm principle. The child is harmed by not being vaccinated and protected against serious diseases.

        This has nothing to do with forcing anyone to protect society, it has to the rights of children not to be harmed by parents.

        1. slippery slope anyone?

          1. You can’t argue the principle (that children have the right to be protected from abusive, negligent or insane parents). You can only argue that vaccinations don’t belong in the same category as nutrition. safety, life-saving medical care, and at least a basic education. Is requiring parents to provide those basic needs also a slippery slope?

            1. with the way we redefine words now a days my point really is… can anything not be justified in todays cultural and political environment?
              But then i suppose thats not a slippery slope for this point in particular but the whole forum of discussion.

        2. Thank you for your reply, but I’ll disagree just a bit. Some government interventions do prevent harm and are so reasonable that they don’t create a burden on individuals.

          Examples: stop signs. The prohibition on waving loaded firearms at others in public. Picking up your dog’s shit, if it defecates on a park trail. And Childhood vaccinations.

      2. There’s ALWAYS an excuse to impose your will on people, isn’t there?

  19. Easy and easy job on-line from home. begin obtaining paid weekly quite $4k by simply doing this simple home job. I actually have created $4823 last week from this simple job….Visit here to earn thousands of dollars

  20. Aaargh. Jorgensen will get my protest vote, but not a very enthusiastic one. Why give an answer that most people will think is crazy when there’s a perfectly sound (and perfectly libertarian!) alternative?

    Look, we absolutely do want to give parents the widest possible latitude in raising their kids — even though plenty of those parents are very marginal. But children are full fledged human beings with rights, too (not slaves, not pets) even if they aren’t yet granted autonomy. Society — properly — doesn’t allow parents who are Christian Scientists and Jehovah’s Witnesses to refuse life-saving medical care for their children any more than we allow parents to starve their children to death. In my opinion, vaccines fall into the same category where the cost/benefit ratio is so high that refusing to vaccinate kids is a form of child abuse.

    Yes, parents should be left to raise their kids with no state interference — provided that they provide reasonable care, which includes food, shelter, medical care, education, freedom from abuse, etc. These restrictions should be grounded in libertarian considerations of the rights of the child.

    1. Depends on the vaccine, no? Is not vaccinating for HepB a form of child abuse? What about HepA? Or the HPV vaccine? If you go down the path you propose, you need to be a hell of a lot more precise. Also, until the child reaches age of majority, are you supplanting the authority of a parent by your approach?

      FTR, I agree mostly. Vaccination has been used for a long time, is very efficacious, and incredibly cost-effective.

    2. I certainly hope we’ll extend rights to the unborn children, too. Oh, wait, libertarians don’t want to recognize the rights of THOSE children. It’s almost like libertarians invoke “children’s’ rights” when it’s CONVENIENT.

      1. I certainly hope we’ll extend rights to the unborn children, too.

        I don’t think libertarians are single-minded on this. I am a secular rather than religious libertarian but I would grant them more rights than they have now. Something closer to European abortion laws (e.g. abortion permitted in the first trimester but quite limited thereafter).

  21. Every month start earning more cash from $20,000 to $24,000 by working very simple j0b 0nline from home. I have earned last month $23159 from this by just doing this 0nline w0rk for maximum 3 to 4 hrs a day using my laptop. This home j0b is just awesome and regular earning from this are much times better than other regular 9 to 5 desk j0b. Now every person on this earth can get this j0b and start making dollars 0nline just by follow instructions on the given website….Check my site.

  22. “The rise of mandatory and forced vaccination legislation should send a chill up every single American spine. That government can force you to accept any kind of medicine and inject you against your will is totalitarianism at it’s worst. This egregious form of state power is metastasizing” – Dr Ron Paul

  23. Well, there goes the Reason staff vote.

  24. What difference does it make what the President thinks about this? It’s a state issue, not a federal one.

  25. I’m sorry, but the argument against childhood vaccinations is fucking whack.

  26. Ugh. Why did you have to go there, Jo.

    1. Because she’s an idiot, not a principled ideologue. If you listen to two or three of her interviews on podcasts or any speeches, you’ll see that she keeps repeating the same half-baked lines over and over. Same jokes, same talking points.

      Someone likely helped her create a script and she just repeats it everywhere she goes. And since few interviewers ask follow-up questions, she is wholly unprepared for deviations off the script.

      That’s how she keeps getting into stupid stuff, like this.

  27. ★I’am made $84, 8254 so far this year working on the web and I’m a full time understudy. Im utilizing an online business opportunity I caught wind of and I’AM profited. It’s truly easy to understand and I’m simply so cheerful that I got some answers concerning it. Here what I do,.for more data essentially open this connection thank you….. Read More  

  28. Amazingly Jo…you make the other Candidates look like geniuses… wow dumbest thing we have heard all year…in a year of stupid things.

  29. The problem with the Libertarian Party’s official stance on this one is that if you reject putting a vaccine into someone’s body or conditioning close association with other people upon being vaccinated, then you are asserting a right to tell someone else what you can put in their body against their will – infectious diseases.

    My right to wave my hands in the air stops a very small distance from the tip of your nose, and vice-versa. But diseases don’t stop just because your nose gets in their way, and no one has the right to tell you that you must allow them to punch you in the nose as part of respecting their rights!

    This really comes down to freedom of association. If they majority does not want to associated with people indiscriminately waving their hands without regard for noses, then that is absolutely their right, and no one has the right to compel you to associate with them!

  30. ★I’am made $84, 8254 so far this year working on the web and I’m a full time understudy. Im utilizing an online business opportunity I caught wind of and I’AM profited. It’s truly easy to understand and I’m simply so cheerful that I got some answers concerning it. Here what I do,.for more data essentially open this connection thank you….. Read More  

  31. I think Jo is right on this. You can’t mandate that anyone must be vaccinated. It is a free country after all. But if an entity decides to make it mandatory to have been vaccinated, that fine too. Let’s say a particular airline says you must be vaccinated before flying, then you must prove that you have been vaccinated. You can’t stand in line at the airport screaming “I have me rights.” Or “I feel threatened.” Or “My Dr says I can’t get vaccinated.” But look at the bright side. That will open the market to a whole new airline that does allow unvaccinated customers to fly. Maybe they can name the new airline “Infected Airlines” or something like that. The same rules can be made for employment or anything else.

    1. Vector Air will take you anywhere that will let them deplane.

  32. Yet another reminder of why no significant portion of the electorate takes the Libertarian Party seriously.

  33. Refusing childhood vaccines should not be permitted. If your unvaccinated child transmits a serious disease to my baby in daycare too young for a vaccine, I am coming looking for you. I am not going to sue, I am coming with friends carrying bats. Public self help is 1000 times more effective for enforcement as any failed lawyer procedure. My kid will be retiring before the lawyer asshole has helped him.

    In the case of the COVID, most people get no symptoms. The majority of the rest, get a summer cold for 3 days, like President Trump. His doctors were just showing off. He would have done as well with Tylenol for comfort.

    The vaccine has unknown effect and consequences. Why risk it for nothing symptoms in 95% of people. It should be reserved for high exposure health workers and for people with multiple risk factors for death from COVID. It makes sense only in those people.

    It is not simple, as the dumbass lawyer believes. One has to do some thinking.

  34. During Covid Mostly policies Changed like Education, Business, real estate industry and much. this article good one that provides great info. Now attention to UNIGAGA that is the best education online portal that provides all solution for MBA Degree Colleges admission.

    Visit: https://unigaga.com/

  35. I get paid more than $500 per hour for working online. I heard about this job 3 months ago and after joining this i have earned easily $15k from this without having online working skillsVisit here to earn thousands of dollars

  36. Every month start earning more cash from $20,000 to $24,000 by working very simple j0b 0nline from home. I have earned last month $23159 from this by just doing this 0nline w0rk for maximum 3 to 4 hrs a day using my laptop. This home j0b is just awesome and regular earning from this are much times better than other regular 9 to 5 desk j0b. Now every person on this earth can get this j0b and start making dollars 0nline just by follow instructions on the given website….Check my site.…Click here.

  37. The Libertarian Party has descended into a Leftist gaggle of highly-urbanized, totally-dependent whiners. Ask yourselves this comrades …. if the two-party system is so rotten (and it is), why can’t Libertarians muster more than 2% of the vote?

    1. Actually, the Libertarian party are more centrist than leftist. They’re right of the left and left of the right.

      1. We have our own corner of “the map.”

  38. Give anyone enough rope and they’ll find a way to hang themselves. Sorry Jojo, but if you’re really libertarian, you can’t be a cuck who is afraid to tell people that they must do things. You have no right to refuse vaccination because your refusal directly impacts the health of everyone else who wishes to vaccinate.

  39. Jorgensen’s virus rights stance is duly noted. Seriously, a virus is not a like a gun or knife where someone can easily detect another who is infected and take measures to protect themselves. Most people will be responsible and vaccinate.

    However, someone who knowingly refuses to vaccine and even spreads false information about vaccines imposes a risk on the lives of others that they did not consent to. Therefore, in an instance like this mandatory vaccination would be warranted. A clear violation of innocent people’s individual rights.

    1. Sorry, Jorgensen is articulating a point that says it is okay to violate people’s individual rights.

  40. For Libertarians to be taken seriously as a political alternative, slogans and theory are not enough. We must show how we would actually govern. Where to draw the line between protecting the freedom of an individual and protecting others from that individual will sometimes require some tough judgment calls.

    1. True, yet time and time again we get those that call themselves libertarian that are either nuts, or in this case, nuts in disguise. Anti-vac-ers and not simply like those that don’t want a flu shot. They are self centered fools that have no care for others health. This particular virus has been way over played politically, but the fact remains that it is highly contagious. When there is a vaccine, you should either get it or be legally, and maybe criminally liable if you refuse a vaccine then get it and pass it on.

      If you have the freedom to be anti-vac, I should have the freedom to sue you if you give me the virus. And anti-MMR parents should be liable for those that get measles, mumps or rubella from their fruitcake kids.

  41. JoJo will be on the relaunched Kennedy program on Fox Business, later this hour! (8:16 pm Eastern is “now.”) Replay at 11 EDT.

  42. “I would never use the excuse of herd immunity”

    Herd immunity isn’t an excuse.

    (1) It’s better to say up front that you believe that limiting government power is worth it, if you do: that people will die, that your right to cough coronavirus actually doesn’t really stop at my nose, that a partly effective vaccine might not save people who could be saved if we all vaccinated. If you don’t think this is worth giving the government that power — fine, say so, don’t avoid the facts about viruses and population.

    (2) A lot of us have noticed that Sweden is doing better. And they are mostly not having conversations like this. America screams “it’s my right, or else!!! No no the opposite is my right, or else!!!” Sweden calmly says “Here’s the science, let’s do this right.” No rights violated, no enforcement, but widespread cooperation to do what needs to be done. I believe that if we want government to treat us like adults, if we want our neighbors to trust us, we’re going to need to take reality and responsibility up a notch.

    A healthy libertarian movement needs to be a strong voice for science, for healthy dialogue across partisan and ideological divides, for voluntary giving (and immunizing to protect your neighbor) — follow the Swedish model of building a society that doesn’t need regulations, not the current model of conspiracies, hating people we haven’t talked to, and ignoring scientists, and trying to convince people that crash and burn is ok.

  43. ★I’am made $84, 8254 so far this year working on the web and I’m a full time understudy. Im utilizing an online business opportunity I caught wind of and I’AM profited. It’s truly easy to understand and I’m simply so cheerful that I got some answers concerning it. Here what I do,.for more data essentially open this connection thank you….. Read More  

  44. And just like that, she loses my vote. Hard to believe with one position that could happen. Watch what a serious case of measles does to someone. I’ll take blow hard or owned by China over this.

  45. If Reason really wanted to have an impact on the vaccine debate, one elephant in the anti’s room that they can expose is environmentalism. Anti-vaccine groups are heavily influenced by or are another front for the environmentalist movement. Berkeley history professor Dr. Elena Conis has pointed out that the contemporary anti-vaccine movement is an extension of or influenced by the environmentalist movement resulting from the Woodstock Era in interviews and I believe in her book “Vaccine Nation.”

    I have written extensively about this at my website that you can read by clicking on my name. A prime example is Robert F Kennedy, Jr., who started the green group Riverkeeper and opposes vaccines. Worst of all, vaccine skeptic or anti-vaccine groups on the Right are drinking environmentalist Kool Aid.

Please to post comments