Press Outlets Dunk on Rand Paul for Going to Canada, Land of 'Socialized Medicine,' for Surgery. But the Clinic Is Private.

Checkmate, libertarians? Nope.

Bill Clark/CQ Roll Call/Newscom

Some media outlets and activists are suggesting that Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) is guilty of hypocrisy because he will travel to Canada for surgery related to his 2017 assault at the hands of a neighbor. Paul, after all, has warned loudly against adopting the Canadian health care system.

"Rand Paul, enemy of socialized medicine, will go to Canada for surgery," tweeted Talking Points Memo. The tweet includes a link to a Courier-Journal story that reminds readers that "Paul has called universal health care and nationalized options 'slavery.'" Newsweek went a similar route. And the Democratic Coalition tweeted:

Oh, the irony: Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, one of the fiercest political critics of socialized medicine, will travel to Canada later this month to get hernia surgery.

Tell Congress we need #MedicareForAll now: https://t.co/iQQ4yeeBjyhttps://t.co/yqvqcdub8w

— Democratic Coalition (@TheDemCoalition) January 14, 2019

Checkmate, libertarians? Nope.

Those who chuckled at this supposed irony missed a major detail, even though it was noted in the press coverage: Paul's surgery will take place at the Shouldice Hernia Hospital in Thornhill, Ontario. The clinic is private, and run for profit; The Toronto Star's Daniel Dale, who is from Thornhill, notes that it was "grandfathered in to Ontario's socialized health system."

According to Dale, New Democratic Party Leader Jack Layton, a left-leaning Canadian politician, attracted criticism in 2006 for visiting the private clinic, even though he was a champion of publicly provided health care. That is indeed hypocritical. Paul's decision to seek out the best care—and pay for it—is not.

Comments

[Just Say'n]

"The tweet includes a link to a Courier-Journal story that reminds readers that "Paul has called universal health care and nationalized options 'slavery.'" Newsweek went a similar route."

Reminder that journalists are brave firefighters and most definitely not just political hacks with a byline. Also, they totally care about facts and not just narrative.

[ThomasD]

Like the fact that Canada is a fully two tier system, where Canadians with money get whatever healthcare they are willing to purchase themselves.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Democrats want the same thing. For party members in good standing, and their cronyist comrades.

They should be disposed of.

[Kenneth Kelly]

Canada does not have a two-tier system. Canadians with money can leave the country for care, of course, but if they stay home, they get care from the same providers under the same terms as everyone else. 90% of Shouldice's (the hospital Paul is going to) are Ontario residents whose care is paid for by OHIP, the public health insurance plan.

[ThomasD]

If paying extra does not get you 'more' or ''different' in Canada then please explain why supplemental health insurance policies are sold in Canada? what exactly do people who purchase them get for their added expense?

It's a two tiered system.

[bsenka]

The only thing two-tiered about is that certain things like dental are generally not covered by the provincial government plans. People usually get a pretty inexpensive private insurance plan to cover those extras. The normal medical expenses are public-only. There is no option to pay more to get a different doctor or an alternate procedure.

[mad.casual]

Those who chuckled at this supposed irony missed a major detail, even though it was noted in the press coverage: Paul's surgery will take place at the Shouldice Hernia Hospital in Thornhill, Ontario. The clinic is private, and run for profit; The Toronto Star's Daniel Dale, who is from Thornhill, notes that it was "grandfathered in to Ontario's socialized health system."

Well, there's also the fact that had he not been blind-sided by a statist fuck he wouldn't even have needed the surgery in the first place. But, of course, in the mind of your average Twitterer, the State generally gets credit for solving problems that it induced or created.

[a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf]

Your last sentence summarizes nicely why statist solutions always make things worse; or rather, why statists never want to actually make things better. They do sometimes screw up and actually improve things from time to time, as when Jimmy Carter deregulated trucking and airlines. But pot legalization shows what they are proudest of.

[CharlesWT]

Politicians, in their efforts to find solutions for non-existent problems, create problems with non-existent solutions.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This is exactly why we need a wall on ALL of our borders.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

And make Canada pay for all of them.

[a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf]

Even Hawaii?!? kriiiist, make Japan pay for that one.

[BestUsedCarSales]

We all need to band together to fight the threat of native Hawaiians.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Hawaii totally joined the United States voluntarily and in a non-violent manner.

[Serial Microaggressor]

I spotted a Border Patrol officer near the Canadian border the other day. Must be hard at work smoking out the Canadian menace seeping into this great country.

[kevrob]

They were up there fighting the frostback menace. 🙂

[bsenka]

It's people fleeing the US into Canada that is the current problem. Seriously.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Do these idiots actually believe someone could simply cross our northern border and get free taxpayer funded healthcare? It's fucking Canada. They've got border security up there. Now for someone traveling north across our southern border it's a different story.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

And no I'm not anti immigration. Just pointing out the irony.

[Tony]

Does a hospital that receives a majority of its funding from the government technically count as private?

[Just Say'n]

So you're saying that we already have public provided healthcare and collegiate education?

[Tony]

It's kind of a hybrid.

To stick to the point, the hospital under discussion calls itself private but receives most of its funding from the Ontario government and accepts government insurance. It's a charter hospital, if you will. Not to mention the fact that it exists in a wholly government-run healthcare system.

It's right to say that Rand is being a good capitalist by shopping around for the best option. It just so happens that the best option is not, in fact, actually a private business.

[Just Say'n]

"the hospital under discussion calls itself private but receives most of its funding from the Ontario government and accepts government insurance."

Which would describe over 90% of all hospitals in America.

[Tony]

Are you trying to make the point that private hospitals are practically inconceivable in the modern world, or are you going to fall back on "It'll work I swear just as soon as we try it!"

[Just Say'n]

The point that you've made is that this hospital is no more public than the vast majority of hospitals in America. So, I'm not sure what your point is.

[Tony]

Obviously it's that he should put his money where his mouth is and find a *real* private hospital. Like in Somalia or something.

[Just Say'n]

Tony: We need socialized medicine

*Rand Paul goes to private hospital in Canada that has a similar funding stream as most hospitals in America*

Tony: Haha, Rand Paul loves socialized medicine

So, we do already have socialized medicine in America is what I gather from your "have my cake and eat it too" position?

[Tony]

By similar funding stream you mean... in large part from the taxpayers, yes?

He calls that slavery. He is employing slaves to fix his hernia. He is a slaver.

[Just Say'n]

I agree. Taxpayers should not be forced to fund our hospitals. Glad we brought you around

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Shut up, man. If you use government roads to get to work, you are totally a hypocrite. Why don't you use private roads like a good libertarian?

[Arcxjo]

I would, but Dominos hasn't come to my town yet.

[Tony]

FTR healthcare spending in America is roughly 50% government while it's 70% government in Canada, the remaining 30% being spent on elective procedures governed largely by private insurance.

[Just Say'n]

You obviously have never looked at a hospital's balance sheet. But, yeah, go with averages, because that makes lots of sense

[loveconstitution1789]

Tony, your citations fell off...again.

[a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf]

Speaking of citations, bub ...

loveconstitution1789|12.3.18 @ 10:20AM|#

Do you need me to link the rules of NAFTA and USCMA so you can compare and contrast the "worseness" for us?

Yes, please, leaves us speak of citations, Tony-clone.

[Peter Duncan]

LoveSatism, your strap-on fell off.....again.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

This is the Obama "you didn't build that" shit.

"Nothing is really private because, roads!"

[Ron]

Private companies are allowed to do business with the government as well as the public its called free enterprise.

[JFree]

The hypocrisy ain't what the journalists want to think - but it IS hypocrisy. The prices for that Canadian clinic are as driven by the overall Canadian healthcare system as prices for cosmetic surgery (private everywhere) are driven by the local prices of those healthcare systems. idk if price is the reason he's going there - but if so he is a hypocrite (same as those who buy pharma from Canada while deploring the system that makes those prices possible)

[Brandybuck]

Canadian pharma prices are because Canada does not recognize US government grants of monopoly via our corrupt patent system.

"If you're going to sell here you have to do so at market prices, not at grossly inflated monopolistic prices." Yeah, it's price control. But the good kind of price control.Nothing compels big pharma from selling in Canada. It's not as big of a market as the US but it's big enough that they still want to sell there even at non-monopolistic prices.

[JFree]

that's true. But a similar phenomenon occurs re things like tummy tucks which are privately paid for everywhere. The most expensive place in the world for one is - the US. In large part because doctors incomes here are much higher - so the tummy tuck doctor expects higher income here too.

[Overt]

But a similar phenomenon occurs re things like tummy tucks which are privately paid for everywhere. The most expensive place in the world for one is - the US.

A daily dinner is also more expensive than other places in the world. So is lawn care. And a host of other services. This isn't because of the health care market, so much as the fact that americans have comparatively more money to throw around. Un-insured treatments like tummy tucks have tended to rise in price much slower than the rest of healthcare. This is because people- sensitive to prices- shop around.

[JFree]

No it IS because of the health care market. The local market is what sets the labor market for the cost side of the biz. But on the customer side, cosmetic surgery is a heavily globalized market - basically a non-necessary luxury so it is the core of the medical tourism business. Someone looking for a tummy tuck can fly to Thailand (or Costa Rica or Spain or Czechia or wherever), get their tummy tuck and then have a vacation for a few weeks - and the cost of all of that will be cheaper than just getting a tummy tuck here. The world's jet setters can go anywhere for tummy tucks. They DON'T generally come to the US - cuz the only thing the US offers is high prices.

For tertiary care surgery - yeah that's different but that's exactly the sort of stuff that is always covered by insurance and that no one ever price-shops.

[BigT]

How does your comment in any way indicate that the costs are not driven by the local economy (labor prices)?

[JFree]

There's a difference between costs and revenues.

He was arguing the prices are higher cuz of the revenue side not the cost side.

[Sevo]

JFree|1.14.19 @ 8:16PM|#
"There's a difference between costs and revenues."

Roughly 7% in most successful companies; did you have a point?

[JesseAz]

Jfree, you know you're an ignorant dumbfuck right? Almost 20% of our costs are due to defensive medicine to avoid torts. Democrats are slaves to the lawyer lobby.

[Moderation4ever]

This assume the 20% is lost. If it catches a problem it could save money in the long run or save a life. Technology is bigger driver of cost. If a hospital buys new piece of equipment it must be paid for. This means staff will be encouraged to use the equipment and bill for its use.

[Echospinner]

That never happens overtly.

What does happen is the new piece of equipment can do things the old one could not so it gets more use. So the staff will be informed.

[Overt]

No it IS because of the health care market

If that were true, then we would expect these costs to rise at the same rate as other treatments in the health care market. Why haven't they?

When you go get lasik, you have nurses with the same training. You have doctors that went to the same schools and got the same training as (say) eye trauma surgeons. They have specialized machinery, but other than that the other materials- from sterile consumables to the pain pills they give you afterwords- are generally the same. Yet Lasik has not increased in price comparable to general health care. Indeed throughout the 90s and early 00's when I looked at detailed studies, the price had actually DECREASED in real dollars.

The same is true with elective plastic surgery. Same doctors, nurses, anesthesiologists. Same anesthesia, pain meds, sutures, and other consumables. And yet the prices have stayed stable.

[JFree]

then we would expect these costs to rise at the same rate as other treatments in the health care market. Why haven't they?

First stop conflating costs with prices/revenues. Unless you have info on their margins or their operating leverage. A major reason their PRICES rise more slowly is because the price elasticity of demand for a tummy tuck isn't the same as the price elasticity of demand for a coronary bypass.

And yeah obviously even when 'elective' things are covered by insurance, patients view that as 'free' and overutilize unless the system has some other way of rationing usage. And that failure to ration (to act on behalf of taxpayers rather than beneficiaries) is actually the biggest problem with Medicare - and unique to govt-paid stuff here in the US. Again however - if you want to compare Lasik or tummy tuck - then compare those two with the same procedures in other big countries - not with coronary bypasses.

[a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf]

Prices are not higher because US doctors are paid more. The corrupt system raises prices, which allows doctors to get paid more.

[JesseAz]

Actually it is the tort system that is the cause of the difference. Look at c saw nadia doctor malpractice insurance costs as compared to here.

[loveconstitution1789]

Canada can also protect doctors from their mistakes. Hence the low malpractice insurance.

People die a lot....a lot in hospitals. Most die because it was their time to go not because of a mistake by a medical professional.

Sometimes though, a medical professional makes a horrible mistake. American torts are great at getting that person some compensation for their injury. Rarely is someone made 'whole' again but the person who injures you should not get protection from compensation.

Police who injure get protection from injuring you and that is a major problem.

[Sevo]

"Canadian pharma prices are because Canada does not recognize US government grants of monopoly via our corrupt patent system."

Translated from bullshit:
Canadian meds are price-fixed by the government.
Stuff you idiotic claims of 'monopoly' up your ass.

[ThomasD]

Prices for covered medications are controlled by the government.

But many drugs are not covered by the government plans.

Those are set by market forces. Meaning that they are still expensive, but commonly a little less expensive than in the US.

Canada is very much a two tier health system.

Those than can pay can get what they want. Everyone else gets what the government says you can get.

[Sevo]

"Those are set by market forces. Meaning that they are still expensive, but commonly a little less expensive than in the US."
Please explain how they are set by 'market forces' but still cheaper than the place from which the are imported.

[ThomasD]

The manufacturer/distributor sets the price, and they price it in a manner intended to maximize revenue. Striking the best balance between unit volume and dollar volume.

The practice is applied to all sorts of products in all sorts of markets.

Consider the game software distributor Valve, which does not charge the same price for a video game bought on Steam across the globe. The prices are regional or even national, and prices are substantially higher in the US as compared to places like southern Europe.

[Overt]

The prices for that Canadian clinic are as driven by the overall Canadian healthcare system as prices for cosmetic surgery (private everywhere) are driven by the local prices of those healthcare systems.

The prices of un-insured healthcare in this country (such as cosmetic surgery and lasik) are notable specifically because they are price outliers. The cost of these treatments has traditionally risen far slower than general healthcare specifically because the consumers must be price conscious of their purchase.

[ThomasD]

This. If you compare the price for a male to female trans surgery, with all that it entails (urology, plastics, etc.) to the price for similar procedures covered by insurance - ie. reconstruction following accidental trauma you will see that the trans surgery is substantially less expensive.

This is for the simple fact that, absent a deep pocket, if it weren't reasonably priced it would not get done very often.

[Hank Phillips]

Aside from my Austin GP, who has shoulder-length hair, I have successfully avoided U.S. government-conscripted doctors for at least 2 decades. With Airbnb and a passport you can fly somewhere away from the communo-fascist Kleptocracy, get treatment and enjoy R&R cheaper than battling past antichoice Creation science goons and Stalinista madmen. Even with airfare you save money and get better care.

[Brandybuck]

I can't stand modern media which thinks a manufactured hypocrisy somehow counts as news. Which naturally leads me to remember the following quote from The Diamond Age:

"You know, when I was a young man, hypocrisy was deemed the worst of vices," Finkle-McGraw said. "It was all because of moral relativism. You see, in that sort of a climate, you are not allowed to criticise others--after all, if there is no absolute right and wrong, then what grounds is there for criticism?"

"Now, this led to a good deal of general frustration, for people are naturally censorious and love nothing better than to criticise others' shortcomings. And so it was that they seized on hypocrisy and elevated it from a ubiquitous peccadillo into the monarch of all vices. For, you see, even if there is no right and wrong, you can find grounds to criticise another person by contrasting what he has espoused with what he has actually done. In this case, you are not making any judgment whatsoever as to the correctness of his views or the morality of his behaviour--you are merely pointing out that he has said one thing and done another. Virtually all political discourse in the days of my youth was devoted to the ferreting out of hypocrisy.

[Echospinner]

Dr. Paul has chosen an institute totally dedicated to hernia repair for his surgery. Perhaps the only one on the planet. Shouldice Hernia Centere in Ontario.

As a doc himself he is well informed. When you have a choice go with grey hair and experience.

It has nothing to do with any of the political crap above.

Nothing more libertarian than free market and personal choice.

He can afford to go to the top specialty institute which happens to be in Canada.

[JFree]

Is he on his own medical plan - or is he on the health insurance plan that Senators have - paid for by taxpayers?

[ejhickey]

I don't think that makes a difference since the bill will be paid by the guy who assaulted him - Boucher. The estimated cost of the procedue is about $8K . Even if it is paid by Paul's insurance , the insurance carrier will get paid back. I am guess that Paul will probably pick up the tab himself

[Sevo]

JFree|1.14.19 @ 5:59PM|#
"Is he on his own medical plan - or is he on the health insurance plan that Senators have - paid for by taxpayers?

JFree, do you expect him to reject his pay, since it is taxpayer money?
Just asking to see how stupid you want to look this evening.

[JFree]

Just asking to see how stupid you want to look this evening.

don't worry Sevo. You've got that competition locked up. You're proof of the old adage that you can lead a dog to the Internet and have him type - but that don't mean he's Shakespeare and he will still drink out of the toilet

[Sevo]

Poor, lame JFree.
Please tell us again what company forced you to buy their product.
And your insults are as lame as your intellect.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

As a doc himself he is well informed.

He should be free to seek care in line with his wishes.

Will this personal rejection of "America first" and "American exceptionalism" prevent him from yelling about how great Kentucky and America are at the next backwater county fair at which he campaigns?

[Sevo]

Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.14.19 @ 7:35PM|#
"Will this personal rejection of "America first" and "American exceptionalism" prevent him from yelling about how great Kentucky and America are at the next backwater county fair at which he campaigns?"

Do you need to constantly prove you're a stupid shit, along with being a raging asshole.
Outside of dumbshits like you, who ever claimed Paul has those reps?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Sen. Paul is reported to have declared that the United States has the best health care system in the world.

Reported by his website.

Other than that, great comment, you bigoted, anti-social, spectrum-inhabiting rube.

[Sevo]

Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.14.19 @ 9:58PM|#
"Sen. Paul is reported to have declared that the United States has the best health care system in the world.
Reported by his website."

OK, I suggest *everyone* click on that link and read it end-to-end. Our resident asshole claims that the website has Paul "declar[ing] that the United States has the best health care system in the world."
If, as other than a fucking ignoramus, the asshole rev had read that link (that HE provided), he'd have seen that claim was nowhere made. This assumes the fucking ignoramus is capable of reading, and given the evidence that his edumacation ended somewhere around the 6th grade that remains doubtful.

"Other than that, great comment, you bigoted, anti-social, spectrum-inhabiting rube."
Go empty the tank on your RV, you fucking ignoramus. If fact, suck it empty.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Arty ought to have his testicles beaten with his own shoes.

[Deconstructed Potato]

Cynical bolshevik Arty's campaign of dezinformatsiya continues, while ironically he clings to the Russian fever dreams.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

That clinger knows how to carry on.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

From Sen. Paul's website, at the indicated page:

"More ? not less ? freedom to choose and innovate will make sure our health care system remains the best in the world."

I don't mind all the yapping from faux libertarian right-wingers. I do caution that you losers need to continue exhibiting obedience to the rules your liberal-libertarian betters in America have established for you. Your continued obsequience is noted and appreciated, and you therefore are free to mutter inconsequentially all you wish.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Echospsinner is correct. I know from personal experience that healthcare professionals will go with facilities and doctors that they know to be expert. All the other stuff discussed here really doesn't enter into it at all. That's how I ended up at a laser eye surgery in Vancouver, BC twenty years ago to get my vision corrected. They were among the best. I even met a woman from England who travelled all the way there for her procedure on the same grounds.

[ShotgunJimbo]

Echo is right on, this is a doc looking to get their surgery where they want to have it done, not much to see here. You get to know people in the medical field and hear about where/who to go to for different procedures. It most certainly is about that and nothing at all related to the political sillyness.

As an aside, a hernia surgery (unless it's a huge ventral hernia disaster) is usually fast, cheap, and doesn't require inpatient admission. This is pocket change to this guy, regardless of whether he has govt insurance or anything else. Aside from the fact that he was a physician (money money money money) and now a senator (MONEY!), just a basic HSA should have enough funds in it to cover this surgery easy.

[Echospinner]

And they come from all over the world to Cleveland for heart problems, or Pittsburgh for transplant surgery.

For profit or not is irrelevant. Those are the meccas.

[Echospinner]

Just to add. There are many types of hernias and there is a failure rate. His is evidently post traumatic and may be an unusual or complicated type.

[ShotgunJimbo]

Very good point. And all the more reason to seek out a specific specialist to solve the problem.

The hernia go-to-guru that I work with a lot crushes anything that comes his way quickly and his patient's do great. This shop is likely completely made up of this kind of surgeon.

[EscherEnigma]

Seeing as Paul has claimed that American healthcare is the best in the world, it remains quite odd that he would go to a country he sees as, at best, second-best.

[loveconstitution1789]

Except for one of the few for-profit private clinics in Canada that evidently is a world leader for hernia issues. People evidently come from all over the World for the clinic.

[Overt]

You do know that someone can think a certain system is better in general, and still believe that in a specific case or two, other alternatives might be better, right?

[Sevo]

EscherEnigma|1.14.19 @ 5:42PM|#
'Seeing as Paul has claimed that American healthcare is the best in the world, it remains quite odd that he would go to a country he sees as, at best, second-best.'

Seeing that you're a fucking ignoramus, it is not odd at all that you try to cherry-pick some lame 'comparison'.

[Fairbanks]

The health care market is huge, with many services. I think the American music industry is the best in the world. That doesn't make me a hypocrite if I hire a Mexican band for a mariachi performance.

[ThomasD]

Dats raciss.

[JesseAz]

The system in general 8s best in the world. It doesn't mean every top tier center is here dumbfuck.

[Homple]

"Paul's decision to seek out the best care?and pay for it?is not."

Or maybe his taxpayer funded congressional health insurance will pay for it.

[SIV]

A civil judgement on his neighbor should morte than pay for it.

[Last of the Shitlords]

I hope,he bankrupts the progtard.

[Deconstructed Potato]

Agreed. An absolute weapons grade shithead of a neighbor.

[Sevo]

This will be reported as true, regardless that it is fake new, forever; the leftist media constantly repeats lies.

[Deconstructed Potato]

Yup.

[Bubba Jones]

I am honestly surprised that U Cinci wasn't faster/better/more convenient for him.

But, "best hernia surgeon in the world" give Shouldice as the top hit.

[Lost in the Woods]

While I am generally supportive of Paul's positions on issues, and I view him as one of the better senators, this choice bothers me a bit. He is not being *actually* hypocritical, but the perception will be that he is. Most observers will not get past the headline, and the liberal media will be all too eager to portray this as hypocrisy. And this is a problem that he must have foreseen. Surely there is a facility somewhere in America where Paul can get the quality of care he wants, without damaging the perception of the libertarian movement in the process.

[Serial Microaggressor]

There's nothing you can do to proactively protect yourself from fake news. It will find you one way or another.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

It shouldn't damage the perception of the libertarian movement.

It should damage Sen. Paul's reputation as an "America is the super bestest" Republican and as a "Kentucky is as good as any other place" campaigner.

[Sevo]

Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.14.19 @ 7:37PM|#
"It should damage Sen. Paul's reputation as an "America is the super bestest" Republican and as a "Kentucky is as good as any other place" campaigner."

Do you need to constantly prove you're a stupid shit, along with being a raging asshole.
Outside of dumbshits like you, who ever claimed Paul has those reps?

[Last of the Shitlords]

Yes Arty, we all know that a stupid treasonous faggot bitch like you hates America. You don't need to constantly announce it.

[SIV]

Fuck the "libertarian movement".

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Paul's decision to seek out the best care?and pay for it?is not.

Will Sen. Paul pay for it, or will American taxpayers pay for it?

[Eddy]

Hopefully the Democrat who assaulted him will pay for it.

[ejhickey]

Sen Paul is going to pay for it. Under the hospital's rules , they do not bill insurance companies for non Canadian citizens . They require payment in advance. I quote from their website -

"US and International Patients
All patients who have submitted their medical questionnaire for assessment and have been qualified for surgery will receive a letter outlining our estimated fees specific to their stated surgical procedure and related hospital stay. Patients with private insurance coverage may be eligible for reimbursement on submission of paperwork provided to you. We do not bill insurance companies on your behalf, however, Shouldice Hospital has no-cost consultants trained to help you with your claim (as foreign insurance coverage is complicated we encourage all patients to pre-approve their coverage prior to admission).

All charges are payable on admission by credit card, bank draft or cash."

Ultimately , the one who pays these costs will be the Federally convicted Felon who assaulted Senator Paul . There is a civil case pending against him seeking monetary damages including but not limited to medical expenses , pain and suffering and any other expenses related to the injuries Boucher caused. Even if the Senator's insurance paid the bills , the insurance company would be reimbursed . I am sure that company has already filed a lien for the monies they have already paid out for the Senator's medical care.

[ThomasD]

Which means Boucher will also be paying for the air travel, and local accommodations as well. Is Paul a hypocrite for not staying down on the American side of the Falls?

I'd have recommended the Park Plaza (now Park Hyatt) but apparently it is closed and undergoing renovations.

[ejhickey]

Paul is going to be staying in the Hospital for 3-5 days. I am sure those costs will be part of the damage claims. If his wife goes with him and stays up there , they will add her rooms costs in too along with Airfare and meals , cab fare and maybe even downloading movies. Boucher would actually be catching a break because currency differential.

[Sevo]

Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.14.19 @ 7:29PM|#
"Will Sen. Paul pay for it, or will American taxpayers pay for it?"

We need a sur-tax on assholery; you could cover major-medical for thousands.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

So long as you continue to obey my preferences, and those of the liberal-libertarian mainstream, each and every day of your life, you are welcome to object to my comments.

Thank you for your compliance with your betters' wishes, Sevo. It is always better to submit peacefully.

[Sevo]

Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.14.19 @ 10:01PM|#
"So long as you continue to obey my preferences, and those of the liberal-libertarian mainstream, each and every day of your life, you are welcome to object to my comments.
Thank you for your compliance with your betters' wishes, Sevo. It is always better to submit peacefully."

Was that just random bullshit, or were you replying to some other thread?
Try reading the comment, you fucking ignoramus, and reply to that. *If* you can read.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Arty, the one who must learn to obey here, is YOU. Or your suffering will soon be more than a tiny mind like yours can bear.

Learn to obey bitch.

[Brian]

When you think about it, Paul makes his money from the government.

IT'S ALL PUBLIC!

[Architect of Liberty]

What a dumbass -- even two full days later, Arty is still a fucking dumbass.

[JeremyR]

It's still a government subsidized clinic in a government run healthcare system, even if he's paying for it.

One of the arguments against Canada's system is that it costs too much. Well, then how come it's cheaper for him to go there? And pay for it, even?

[ejhickey]

He is going there because the Hospital uses a non mesh surgical repair method that avoids some of the complications of using mesh to repair hernias. The use of mesh to repair hernias has resulted on some post surgical complications which have been the subject of medical malpractice lawsuits. The procedures used at Shouldice , a private clinic , actually cost more because they require a several day stay following surgery .

[Fairbanks]

There can be a big difference between how much something costs and what customers are charged. Especially when taxpayers are involved in funding....

[Chipper Jones]

Who said anything about it being cheaper?

[JeremyR]

It's still a government subsidized clinic in a government run healthcare system, even if he's paying for it.

One of the arguments against Canada's system is that it costs too much. Well, then how come it's cheaper for him to go there? And pay for it, even?

[Eddy]

If he's going for cheapness, he could go to Dr. Nick. "Hi, everybody!"

[Sevo]

JeremyR|1.14.19 @ 8:01PM|#
"It's still a government subsidized clinic in a government run healthcare system, even if he's paying for it."
Bullshit:
"...the Shouldice Hernia Hospital in Thornhill, Ontario. The clinic is private, and run for profit; The Toronto Star's Daniel Dale, who is from Thornhill, notes that it was "grandfathered in to Ontario's socialized health system."

"One of the arguments against Canada's system is that it costs too much. Well, then how come it's cheaper for him to go there? And pay for it, even?"
The argument is that it costs the Canadian taxpayer too much; did you start drinking too early?

[Len Bias]

Must be a slow news day. In this era of growing left and right populism, Rand Paul's variety of small government conservatism/libertarianism is al but dead. Why the need to smear him? I think ignoring him would cut deeper.

[Eddy]

Because when the debt starts dragging the economy down, Paul will be all "I told you so," and his relevance may be revived.

Of course, that might not happen, because nobody is more irritating, or more in danger of being ignored, than someone who was right before it was fashionable.

Probably the people they'll trust to "fix" any debt problems after the shit hits the fan will be people who spent the previous years ignoring the problem.

[Brian]

Now, just as soon as democrats stop sending their kids to private schools, they'll have a point.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Yes, democrats never share in the shit they create.

[broesmo]

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[Deconstructed Potato]

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[darcyshort]

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[Rob Misek]

Everyone wants the best treatment.

In a private clinic, the best doctors get the most money.

The money doesn't make them the best doctors it just attracts everyone like flies to shit.

Last time I checked most people are hypocrites.

[DavidS-T]

In other words, Canada-style universal healthcare is compatible with having private clinics. But in this case, why do libertarians and conservatives denounce it as "socialized medicine"? (They constantly talk about Canadians who go to the US for medical care, never mentioning traffic in the opposite direction...)

[colorblindkid]

The only reason such a clinic doesn't exist here is because of the regulatory monstrosity we call the FDA, something Paul regularly criticizes.

[Sevo]

DavidS-T|1.15.19 @ 8:48AM|#
"In other words, Canada-style universal healthcare is compatible with having private clinics. But in this case, why do libertarians and conservatives denounce it as "socialized medicine"?"

What are you twaddling on about? The clinic was grandfathered in, privately run for profit.
Who's denouncing it as "socialized medicine'?

[Deconstructed Potato]

This really has exploded on Twatter. The number of fucking morons smirking and signaling over it is beyond ridiculous. Just another day in progressive collective outrage.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Yeah, focus on where he went for care, not why he had to go.

This is how the left treats victims of assaults when it's someone they don't like.

Someone once said, you can judge the character of a man not by how he treats his friends, but how he treats his enemies.

[Flinch]

I don't find irony here, but confirmation of two things. First is HIPAA is a joke, which leads to number two: anyone remember Obama's database that Maxine Waters was crowing about years ago? I think it's still alive, and serving the democrat party as designed. So what really is HIPAA anyway? It's a brick for the federal government to smash doctors with if they DON'T feed their database. How it works is doctors have to prove "disclosure" for every patient on file using what is effectively a government approved script, and is not actually disclosure regarding the outflow of your medical information. Your information is going to perhaps get handed off to CDC or whoever, and used without your knowledge after your diagnosis/treatment. It is this form you sign that lets doctors off the hook and leaves you without any improvements in service or treatment [or discovery].
In light of the recent doxing event in the house... Rand Paul may have good reason to be concerned. So he went to a system outside of the federal governments jurisdiction. Senators pass around things both confidential and secret like a plate of christmas cookies, if what I've heard is true.

[Uncle Jay]

This fascist bastard Paul going to a private clinic for his healthcare?
He should have Obamacare.
He may not get cured or have the doctor of his choice, but at least his premiums will go up.
He doesn't know what he's missing!

[Uncle Jay]

This fascist bastard Paul is going to a private clinic for his healthcare?
Why doesn't he have Obamacare like any other good socialist?
This way he won't be able to pick the doctor he needs (much less he wants) and have his premiums skyrocket.
This fool doesn't know what he's missing!

[Hank Phillips]

Canada has no abortion laws, and never got fanatical enough about prohibition to turn doctors into snitches and extortionists. Indeed, an important repeal of anti-enjoyables legislation just passed. Like many women these past 40-odd years, the antichoice Senator is going where competence trumps superstition, seeking relatively untainted medical care.

[Last of the Shitlords]

Fuck abortion and fuck you. Baby murdering piece of shot. I'll bet you jack it to videos of partial birth abortions.

[Isaac Bartram]

Canada has only had no legal restrictions on abortion since 1988. Before that Dr. Henry Morgentaler was regularly prosecuted for performing abortions that were not allowed under Canadian law.

Until 1969 Canada banned all abortions. After that abortions were only allowed if the mother's life was in danger and approval was granted by a three-doctor therapeutic abortion committee.After Roe v Wade many Canadian women came to the US for abortions.

[vek]

Dumb ass Rand! My dad went to a really awesome hernia specialist in Las Vegas for his surgery. EVERYBODY was pushing those dumb patch things that go under your skin a few years ago. My dad researched and came to the conclusion they were a horrible idea. He found a really awesome guy in Vegas who did them old school style. Everything went smooth and awesome. AND we got to party in Vegas before the surgery! And I did afterwards too, while he was all hopped up on pain meds in the room resting for a day or two.

IF RAND WAS COOL HE WOULD HAVE BANGED HOOKERS AND DONE BLOW IN VEGAS INSTEAD. What is there to do in Canada, chug maple syrup?

[yorason]

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[Colossal Douchebag]

How dare that bastard choose his surgeon based on technique and reputation.

A real patriot would have gone to ValueSurgeon and shut up about it.

[Gene Ralno]

Conservatives expect Newsweek and the democrat coalition to skip investigation and just print any words that besmirch, humiliate or embarrass them. But this is sweet. Oh the irony, YESSS.

[bsenka]

This article is very misleading. Almost all hospitals in Canada are privately owned. The state run system provides the insurance, not the care. Rand was able to make use of a TYPICAL Canadian universal healthcare facility, funded by Canadian tax dollars.