Criticizing a Drag Show Earned This Catholic College Student a Visit From the Title IX Coordinator
"My identity is not up for debate."

Declan Leary, a conservative student at a private Jesuit university in Ohio, was questioned by the administration after objecting on religious grounds to the annual campus drag show.
"I can't help but wonder who thought it would be a good idea to hire grown men to dress up as women on a Catholic campus for the deviant entertainment of misguided young people," he wrote in an op-ed for the campus newspaper.
The piece generated heated argument. It also attracted the attention of John Carroll University's Title IX coordinator, who met with Leary and his editor about the article's publication, according to The College Fix.
"I just got the impression that he was required to meet with me because of all the complaints he received about the column," Leary told The College Fix, noting that the vice president for student affairs and vice president for mission and identity have both scheduled meetings as well.
Leary's editor at The Carroll News, Olivia Shackleton, penned an inspiring defense of publishing the column. "We stand by what we publish, and we will continue to let all of our different perspectives be shown," she wrote.
But some students think The Carroll News should have never given Leary space to argue that the drag show is immoral.
"My identity is not up for debate," Lillian Perkins, a philosophy student who identifies as non-binary, told Cleveland.com. "This is not a hot-button topic in the first place. My LGBTQ+ peers are not an issue to be addressed in a newspaper … The fact he even thinks it's up for debate is dehumanizing."
Perkins is entitled to their opinion, as is everyone else who had a problem with the column. (I certainly don't agree with it.) John Carroll is a private university, so there's no First Amendment violation here. But it's a bit concerning that the administration felt the need to step in, even if nothing came of it. If certain viewpoints are likely to draw the ire of administrators, students might feel less comfortable expressing that opinion.
And of course, the vast Title IX bureaucracy entangles itself in all matters relating to sex, gender, and sexuality, even when there's no real harm that needs addressing. In this case, it seems likely the coordinator involved himself after receiving formal complaints about the column. Some students evidently think the best way to settle differences of opinion is to have college administrators silence their peers.
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Are *any* Catholic leaders actually Catholic any more, or just the benighted, lowly believers?
Nonsense. Whenever there are new challenges meeting the Catholic church, such as systemic sexual abuse, the Pope can always be counted on to make a brave and resolute proclamation about global warming.
Seriously, with Pope Francis, the question "Is the Pope Catholic?" is now a valid question.
I think you're forgetting that the Pope is the Catholic church, and he literally can not be wrong about matters of faith.
It's reason number one I stopped being Catholic. No man is infallible in matters of faith, not even the frikkin' Pope.
I'm not even Catholic and even I know that only applies when he gives ex cathedra declarations, and doesn't apply to idiot lefty musings in his letters and homilies.
Which his why I said matters of faith as shorthand for that very concept. You're absolutely right though.
Only when speaking ex cathedra, which has happened only once in the history of the Church. There are a shit ton of Church teachings and papal proclamations that are open to debate. Seems to me that the main reason the Chuywaa not able to hold on to you is that you got a shitty religious education, which is unfortunately typical. Sad.
Chuywwa should be "Church." What the fuck is a Chuywwa, and why is it in my autocorrect?
It's a ludicrous concept regardless of the frequency of it's use.
Do you mean Chuywwa or ex cathedra?
I hear you, dude. The ex cathedra thing kind of smells like a 19th century power grab by the pope from the bishops.
He meant 'covfefe'.
ok that begs the question, where does the bear shit?
wherever the bear wants.
The question is: Is the bear Catholic? (I assume that the Popes shits wherever he/she wants)...
The Catholic Church came up this morning in my debate with some Jehova Witnesses. They seemed relieved when I finally left them. I was enjoying the discussion, but the the DPW crew arrived and made so much noise that I couldn't get my points across.
I believe I'll diddle another altar boy thank you very much.
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"My identity is not up for debate," Lillian Perkins, a philosophy student who identifies as non-binary, told Cleveland.com. "This is not a hot-button topic in the first place. My LGBTQ+ peers are not an issue to be addressed in a newspaper ... The fact he even thinks it's up for debate is dehumanizing."
All Ideas and existence is up for debate, If the arguments are right or wrong is different matter. But that is what free speech is about anyway.
This person willingly funds an organization that explicitly stands against everything in it's statement. Their opinion is irrelevant and should be disregarded as they are clearly insane.
It's been like 15 years since I took a college philosophy class, but I don't recall receiving the list of "ideas not up for debate". Maybe I was sick that day.
Questions about identity and who we are as people have always been outside the realm of philosophy, duh.
Well, shit, I guess I did philosophy all wrong in college then. Sheesh, so much for that classical education!
"My identity is not up for debate," Lillian Perkins, a philosophy student who identifies as non-binary, told Cleveland.com.
Fixed and immutable it is then!
Yes, sweetheart, it is. Get used to it.
The human species is dimorphic by sex with rare exceptions. It is arguable that to claim to be non- binary without being one of those exceptions is dehumanizing yourself. It is certainly a matter of controversy however the LGTB ideologues want to wish it was not.
The human species is dimorphic by sex with rare exceptions.
Yeah, and apparently even the 'woke' New York Times doesn't understand that these yahoos are talking about gender being divorced from sex. Now, I can understand and even agree with those arguments but what truly baffles me is defining yourself solely by the orifice you prefer to fuck and the clothes you wish to wear. It's truly the most superficial of things that make up a person, but it's all these types seem to care about.
Of course, that's before discussing the inherent delusion in claiming you know exactly what it feels like to be a thing that you demonstrably are not. It assumes a whole lot of impossible lived experience. Pretty sure if I told my wife I know exactly what it feels like to be her, she's laugh in my face.
do you really have to tell her anything to get that reaction?
Well I joke a lot, so our house is filled with a lot of laughter. Most of it isn't even at anyone's expense.
Estrdiol impacts brain develoy, however, male fetuses produce enzymes that bind estradiol. This means male and female brains develop differently. So it is more than sexual organs that are different.
She/he/them/they is/are not much of a human/humans if one sentence in a college newspaper can deprive her/him/them of her/his/their humanity.
How can Perkins even be sure that she exists at all, much less have an identity? It's all just an evil demon.
Anyone who identifies as something non-biological isn't worth debating. I would ignore these half wits and eventually brighter minds will prevail.
How does someone like this exist? Do they know they attend a Jesuit university? I can't even.
I think the definition of non-binary aligns with indeterminate, so it is inviting debate.
Beside the point, the article want debating his identity, but the morality of the event. Way to move the goalposts...
Beside the point, the article want debating his identity, but the morality of the event.
And, again, not even the morality of the event really but questioning the link between an event devoted strictly to entertainment by a institution based around moral education.
If he'd written an article questioning the moral implication of lower class black people playing football without pay to enrich educational institutions, no one would've batted an eye.
"If he'd written an article questioning the moral implication of lower class black people playing football without pay to enrich educational institutions, no one would've batted an eye."
Excuse me...even suggesting this as a topic of discussion dehumanizes us!
Sincerely,
NCAA Member Universities
while your identity may not be in question Lillian you inherent IQ and ability to reason is certainly up for grabs
The Jesuits are pretty far left and have been for decades. To wit: Our current Pope is a Jesuit. How the order has not been expelled from the Catholic Church is beyond me.
Whaddya expect - they're from Spain.
"Do they know they attend a Jesuit university?"
what you think the Jesuits are, and what they have become, are apparently two quite different things.
"This is not a hot-button topic in the first place. My LGBTQ+ peers are not an issue to be addressed in a newspaper ... The fact he even thinks it's up for debate is dehumanizing."
To debate is dehuman, to drag show, Divine
And what does your opinion on a drag show have anything to do with the university not engaging in sex discrimination?
if it has to be explained, you obviously aren't in on the joke...
Yep, they should have let the sad little bigot alone.
If hearing opinions you don't like damages you in some way, you're too fragile. Liberal activists, especially gay activists, used to live by this rule.
Now it's just "Let's add more letters and cry a lot!" It's not the gay men who are responsible for this, I will assume.
in all seriousness Tony is this person insane:
Possibly. Back when we were just gays and lesbians, we practiced the strategy of "Don't be a fragile pussy, because the world is tough for us." I guess these nonbinary whatsits have more luxuries.
Back when we were just gays and lesbians, we practiced the strategy of "Don't be a fragile pussy, because the world is tough for us."
If you have to practice a strategy of "Don't be a fragile pussy.", you're doing it wrong.
Oh yeah? How am I still here, what with all the abuse I get?
What abuse? People calling you an asshole because you're an asshole?
Credit where credit is due. It's something like 100 vs Tony on every thread, and he still comes back for more. And it's not just trolling either, like the Rev. He will even play along with jokes at his own expense.
Letting you know the truth, that you're a single-digit IQ retarded dickwad, is hardly abuse.
It appears you are desperate for attention, just like most who rally around the LBTQ + Non binary (for the love of Pete) whatever community. Idiocy has infected these people to the point where they honestly believe any of the rest of us give a tinker's damn. BTW drag queens scream the loudest for attention and I find it rather pathetic.
The LGBT ect. community got a bit too close to their therapists once they got delisted from the DSM.
So, women cannot dress in blackface for entertainment purposes, nor can Kendall Jenner coiff an afro, but black men can dress as women? This entire discussion is insane.
Wait... she's entitled to several other peoples' opinions?
Well yes because it identify's as something different everyday, sort of like changing clothes. I feel like big retail must be behind the nonbinary push.
I know this is what "they" want to be called, like a royal or something, but this is just plain bad grammar.
Their name is Legion, because they are fabulous.
^ Good one.
Perkins is entitled to theirits opinion
No shit. I absolutely refuse to use "they" as a singular pronoun. I'd be much more inclined to adopt the newly-coined pronouns than I would to abuse the perfectly good extant ones.
>>>some students think The Carroll News should have never given Leary space to argue
some students fail free expression.
Some people are just bigots. I'm a white guy with a Chinese girlfriend and I didn't think it would be a big deal but when I took her home to meet my family, the kids were cool with her but my wife got all kinds of pissed off. All these years and I never knew she was predjudiced against Asians.
Ha ha.
LOL, that was good.
up for the best comment of the year awards
Dude, my friendship with a South Asian started at the pool table when he declared, "I'm not crazy, and I have the right to have 4 wives." I told him, "I'm a libertarian, and I agree!" It's amazing how many friendships between men start with neither of them thinking they are crazy. His younger, White, baby mama just didn't get us.
Having the right to 4 wives doesn't make you crazy. Exercising that right, however...
That's what I was thinking. Zero wives is not enough, and one wife is too many.
Well done, sir!
thanks for the laugh
it's sad but unsurprising that Gennifer Flowers is reduced to this.
From the "controversial" article:
"...a scandalous attempt at the corruption of Catholic youth by the very priests and laypeople charged with their education."
Nonsense, that would never happen!
Now I get why priests call them laypeople.
Isn't that straight up a part of the Jesuit Creed?
Yeah, pretty clear the author did his rhetorical homework.
"...the vice president for student affairs and vice president for mission and identity have both scheduled meetings as well."
I wonder if the vice president for mission and identity ever scheduled meetings with the promoters of the drag show.
As an aside: If a university has a "Vice President for Mission and Identity," go elsewhere.
Guys dressing as women isn't really a good reason to dislike the drag culture -- the shitty music they sing and dance to is enough....
For example?
Hahaw!
don't forget that 99% of them are just plain ugly
To be clear, Jesuits have traditionally been more open to the theater than other Catholic orders, though I'm not sure if Ignatius Loyola would have taken it quite this far.
But some students think The Carroll News should have never given Leary space to argue that the drag show is immoral.
He doesn't actually argue whether it's moral or not. He says it's a bad idea with potential moral implications and inconsistent with Catholic/Jesuit beliefs but never actually says it's immoral and even makes a point of arguing that, in their own mind, they've escaped it from moral judgement. He actually pretty thematically redresses the facilitators and forum that enabled the show rather than the show itself. The worst he does is assert that the show is foolish if you're seeking salvation.
Of course, all this sets aside the stupidly false counterargument that the show and presenters give two shits whether they're moral or not. They didn't give a damn until he cast the faintest of shade. They rather literally had no principles or orientation until he expressed his.
It should be noted, which Robby of course didn't, that this is different from the Milo and similar protests.
Leary isn't exactly saying men can't wear dresses or have fun while doing so, he's just saying that it's not consistent with the university's nominal mission and values and they shouldn't be sponsoring such an event/show (and he's not doing it by standing on stage at the performance and shouting them down). The criticisms leveled against people like Milo and Murray were the opposite. Not that their speech or research wasn't thought provoking or irrelevant to learning and education, but that they were summarily wrongthink and shouldn't be allowed on campus and/or purged from all human thought.
The fact that Robby appears to see these two things as similar or Leary's position as disagreeable demonstrates Robby's idiotic intolerance for the completely reasonable position that a drag show, put on for entertainment purposes, is neither educational nor religious.
Nicholas Kristof in the New York Times: A Confession of Liberal Intolerance
Nicholas Kristof: Another can't-keep-up goober, nipping at the heels of our prestigious liberal-libertarian universities.
Unless Hihn has taken to arguing with himself this must be satire.
Seems like Phil Ochs beat him to this reality by a few decades...
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Feminists are missing the victim opportunity to condemn drag shows as being to sexism as minstrel shows are to racism
That depends on whether the artist identifies with sex xhe is dressing up as.
I would think that most performers at an amateur traditional college drag show don't.
A Spiked-Online article this week argues that transgenderism is the sexist version of cultural appropriation.
What is the best wine to pair with eating your own kind?
Chianti. Also works with fava beans.
Some have been making those sorts of criticisms and are roundly condemned for doing it.
giving feminists too much credit for thought here.
This. Drag shows are pretty much the only still permissible form of minstrel show.
Which is sad, because minstrel shows used to make fun of everybody.
Hee Haw was a minstrel show.
Of course your identity is up for debate, where is this third sex chromosome that makes you non-binary? Because there's just and X and a Y. There is no Z. That's about as binary as you can get?
What? It's not a sex thing, it's a gender thing? Ah. okay. What is this third role? There are a broad range of behaviors, attitudes and lifestyles that can be called male or female--they're not even all that fixed. But you say you're neither. So what is this third--or fourth or twentieth role?
There isn't one. Because there's no third role with sex, there's no third role with gender expression. Only combinations of two. Infinite combinations, to be sure, but built with only two starting points.
So yes, your identity is most certainly up for debate.
The biggest problem is that so much of Perkins self worth seems to be wrapped up in that aspect of their self-image, as if that was the only thing that was really important about them. It does not seem to be a emotionally healthy state to be in.
Is it time for Cuck Pride events on college campuses to demand that the LGBT community include cucks in the acronym and fight for their right to have the government officially sanction their cuck marriage? By the way, tell T and J that I said, "Hi," if you see them.
"where is this third sex chromosome that makes you non-binary? Because there's just and X and a Y. There is no Z."
1. Because they don't occur independently. Normally they come in a pair, Either XX(female), or XY(male) (because you can only get Y from your father). However some times things go wrong and you can end up with XXY instead of XX or XY.
2. Then there are the human chimeras. Not often, but occasionally, fraternal twin embryos will merge into a single embryo which then develops into a person with different DNA strands in different parts of their body. This can happen even if the two embryos aren't the same gender. So part of the body can be genetically male while other parts are genetically female.
get a lot of this where you live? anywhere near 3 Mile or the Love canal?
#1 Klinefelter syndrome people are biological males, not true hermaphrodites, and while many are infertile, some can still have normal children.
#2 is vanishingly rare. 1 in 10 million embryos, and they are almost never viable live births. Same sex chimeras on the other hand are far more common, and often don't even realize they're composed of two different bodies.
Neither of which refutes his point at all.
What stands out is the Q added onto the LGBT. I first saw this over at the Communist website a week or two ago. The commies, poor wretches, are getting more and more desperate to score points by appearing Politically Chimeric.
Declan Leary, a conservative student at a private Jesuit university in Ohio, was questioned by the administration after objecting on religious grounds to the annual campus drag show.
In related news, the university employs tenured professors with PhD's in psychiatry who uphold the DSM-V which says cross-dressing is a mental illness. Drag queens are proud to be cross-dressers. They are not transgender. The student's mistake was to speak his mind instead of publishing it in a book that no one reads like that guy in Atlantic City did. 😉
Perkins is entitled to their opinion...
It seems kind of bigoted to think they all have the same opinion. Maybe a few Perkins feel differently. Even one Perkin having a distinct notion on the topic would mean you can't group them all together like this.
would that be a merkin of Perkins?
OK... Title IX abuses and the tendencies of both the left and right to censor all kinds of speech aside... So what is inherently immoral about drag according to certain Christian beliefs? Why is drag considered a sexual sin when it is in fact a performance, merely a show for entertainment? Is it because drag is most often performed by gay men? Is it immoral for heterosexual male actors to play women in films and on TV? And why the hell are people conflating drag with transgender or non-binary identity issues?
I know that's a lot of questions. Forgive me. Feel free to consider them rhetorical questions if it puts you more at ease. I think it would be great if we delved into this faux morality of so-called Christians who fail to understand their own faith adequately, a faith that some use almost exclusively as a weapon to harm others. I suppose that's not a "hot-button topic" either. Omniscient, invisible-being-in-the-sky forbid, we dare to challenge someone's religious hypocrisy. Because, quite frankly, if Jesus were a baker instead of a carpenter, he would have baked the fucking cake.
"I think it would be great if we delved into this faux morality of so-called Christians "
Oooh that's solid baiting. Master level even.
It's quite simple, faith in any religion is a simple way to view yourself as a moral superior to those around you without actually needing to do anything moral. It's a super common thing that doesn't always even involve faith at all, but faith is perhaps the simplest path to that virtuous feeling of moral condescension without any of the difficult personal introspection.
Or we could delve into the faux outrage of the LGBTQWERTY activists who don't understand their own sexuality adequately and conflate sex, gender, sexual orientation and sexual proclivities as suits the moment.
I honestly don't think either of them have a good grasp of what's immoral in this particular instance and are just using it as a jumping off point for their own interests.
"John Carroll is a private university, so there's no First Amendment violation here."
If a university, even a private one, suppresses speech because Title IX regulations threaten it with the loss of government funding if the speech is not suppressed, then there quite clearly is a First Amendment issue.
What exactly is drag if it's not pretending to be a different gender? Why not just have random people perform?
Heck, from the news I can't think of anything more Holy, Roman, Catholic and Apostolic than a drag show. Face it. The papist church oath of celibacy is and always was nothing more than a promise not to marry. Only recently has there been any temptation--at least for priests whose partners in recreation are old enough to sign a marriage license--to actually break the vow without going straight. Next, I'll wager, they'll be saying it's all the Libertarian Party's fault!
- LGBTQ+ ' I don't see a letter here for "Drag Queen". There is a "Q". Which I assume is short for "WTF?" Should have used the question mark symbol.
- Benny Hill was just a fat guy in a dress looking for laughs. Could use the "B", I guess.
- The "L" is redundant. Subset of "G". Otherwise, "cigar smoker" "pillow biter" and "carpet muncher" are much more descriptive.
- "+"? now I'm questioning. Why not just use the whole fucking alphabet and we can all just forget about it?
Perkins is entitled to theirit's opinion
FTFY
Perkins is entitled to theirits opinion
FTFM
Superstitious, stale-thinking people have rights, too.
Especially, one would expect, at one of America's conservative-controlled campuses, which nearly invariably become fourth-rate goober factories that engage in strenuous censorship, disdain science, reject academic freedom, teach nonsense, and collect loyalty oaths.
Didn't you read the student's article? The college isn't Catholic, it's Jesuit.
Buy a gun and shoot yourself in the face.
Line that probaly drew the most attention: "...purge this place of the evils which have invaded it..."
'Member when Libertarians used to call out bible thumpers instead of the people asking not to be purged?
Debates that are acceptable campus discussion: Whether people should be purged based on sexual orientation.
Debates that are not acceptable campus discusion: Whether debate about purging people should be purged.
Worth noting that despite the outcry on both side, nobody has yet to be purged.
It's not clear if the drag show were for "real" drag queens or just guys dressed in black face, or women's clothes or both or what. So. . .its difficult to be judgmental. If gender is wonky and what one is born with doesn't matter. . . Well some of the world is beyond my belief system now. But, Hey! How about those Red Sox.
On the other hand, there is a good living to be made in creating and selling drag queen costumes.
(If you are good at it)
Not all performers in a drag show are sexual deviants, some are just actors who will take/try any role, just to improve their craft. It's theatre, not politics. Take a deep breath.
But the actual point, about the relationship between the institution and the performance, should not be suppressed.
Oh, I forgot to bring up the point about the long theatre tradition of only men playing all the roles, including women.
We didn't let the women on stage until the last few hundred years.
You've never been to a drag show, have you?
So, at a Catholic university you cannot speak against things that are immoral? There is an entire world of difference between not persecuting those with deviant morality and promoting it yourself.
The propaganda is that anyone who questions the narrative is doing it out of hatred for the persecuted victim, whose behaviour must now be considered beyond reproach. Truth is hatred.
Great eh? It works every time if you've got the money to order some fake news.
Ms. or Mr. Perkins' sexual identify can be determined very easily through an examination of her/his genes, chromosomes, and exterior sexual characteristics. Males and females have obvious differences. How they "feel" about their sexual identity is irrelevant.
"My identity is not up for debate..."
What a naive comment. The reality is that each of us have a unique variant on our identity that exists like a poorly made facsimile etched into the minds of every person we encounter. What your personal identity means to you might not be up for debate, but how others perceive you certainly is and this mutable perception is informed by all the interactions we have that shape and form the basis for the various relationships we build throughout our lives. What this kid wants to do is basically shut down any discussion of what others think about them unless it's positive. Sorry kid, but Thumper's advice from the movie Bambi, useful though it may be, is not the law of the land, nor should it be. And I might self identify as a nice guy, but that doesn't change the fact that others may think I'm an asshole and wish to express as much in public forums.
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