Donald Trump: Making America Economically Literate Again

Thank you for the lesson, Mr. President!

Chris Kleponis/Polaris/SIPA/Newscom

While expressing his displeasure with a New York Times report about his taxes, President Donald Trump inadvertently increased Americans' interest in economic literacy.

The Times story accuses Trump of accumulating at least $413 million from his father's real estate company using tax fraud and evasion. The authors of the report clarify that the dollar amount found in their investigation was adjusted to reflect its 2018 worth.

The adjustment is what Trump chose to criticize this morning:

The Failing New York Times did something I have never seen done before. They used the concept of "time value of money" in doing a very old, boring and often told hit piece on me. Added up, this means that 97% of their stories on me are bad. Never recovered from bad election call!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 3, 2018

Google trends show that searches for "time value of money" leaped mere minutes after the president tweeted.

I'll spare you the Google search: The "time value of money" is not, in fact, a malicious calculation. In fact, it is key when exploring investments. Various factors, including interest rates and opportunity costs, help determine how much money will really be worth in several years. To borrow an example from the Houston Chronicle's Jim Woodruff: If someone were to give you the option of receiving $1,000 now or $1,200 in five years, it is possible that the $1,000 now would be more valuable by the time that $1,200 is scheduled to arrive. If you invested the $1,000 in a bond paying 5 percent, the money will be worth $1,276 in five years.

Comments

[Hugh Akston]

Added up, this means that 97% of their stories on me are bad.

I know it's probably foolish of me to ask, but can someone please explain to me what the hell this is supposed to mean either in or out of context?

[SQRLSY One]

97% of the time, Der TrumfenFuhrer does bad (unethical and counter-productive) things, and so when the NYT reports these bad things, THEY (the NYT) are bad, in the mode of, shoot the messenger, and the Emperor has no clothes on, but none may notice that!

[Hugh Akston]

I guess what I'm really asking about is the "Added up" part. What is he adding exactly? Can he show his work?

[TuIpa]

"Can he show his work?"

Everyone hates this teacher, so it's no surprise you are this teacher.

[Dillinger]

is it possible for T to save "anti-me" tweets in a folder and then compare them to "pro-me" tweets? asking because I don't want to know.

[David Nolan]

He's pised that the numbers were adjusted to current dollars -- because that (of course) makes the numbers MUCH bigger, like adjusting for inflation.

And he's exposed as a psycho liar,
Yet again.

[TuIpa]

Fuck off Hihn.

[Fancylad]

Fuck off Hihn.

[David Nolan]

Fuck off Hihn

[loveconstitution1789]

Fuck off Hihn.

[Don't look at me!]

The fact that google searches spiked means most people don't know what the phrase meant.

[loveconstitution1789]

+1

[Rufus The Monocled]

Bernie Bros and progs make up most of it for sure.

I knew it when was in my teens.

[MatthewSlyfield]

But in doing the search, they learn what it means, which is a good thing that nether Trump nor the NYT intended.

[Ellis Wyatt]

The fact that google searches spiked means most people don't know what the phrase meant.

And now they KNOW Trump is full of shit!
if they didn't already.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Man, it would be so epic if Trump sued the Times for defamation and put Pinchy and the gang out of business forever.

[David Nolan]

He'd get his ass CREAMED.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Mary, all the cream in the world couldn't make your old ass look good!

[Just Say'n]

He would lose in court. Palin sued the NYT for absolutely false allegations about how she inspired the shooting of Gabby Gifford. Even their own news section had shot down that thesis years prior, but the editorial board still ran with the lie. She lost. There is no way that Trump would win on something that is more true than not.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

Sista Sarah's ignorant case was based on The Times pointing out she put gun crosshairs onto her opponents.

How was that a lie?

You are the typical poorly informed wingnut.

[Just Say'n]

You sound incredibly stupid right now, because you clearly are not aware at all with the case. The Times accused her of being the motivation for the shooting in an editorial piece that they published shortly after Steve Scalise was shot. When Palin threatened to sue they quickly printed another editorial saying that they were mistaken and apologized.

[Just Say'n]

And she still lost her suit. So there is no way that Trump would.

I'm still amazed at how proud you are of being a moron, though

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

A federal judge on Tuesday dismissed a lawsuit brought by Sarah Palin against the New York Times, writing that Palin had failed to prove that the newspaper defamed her when it ran an op-ed connecting her rhetoric to the shooting of Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords in 2011.

NY Mag

It was nearly meaningless and completely forgettable.

[Just Say'n]

Nothing significant about newspapers libeling against political opponents

[David Nolan]

Like Trump's promise to sue all many women who accused him of sexual abuse? How did all those suits work out? (smirk)

Bullshit, bluster and threats are how he manipulates his cult,

Nothing significant about newspapers libeling against political opponents

Or cable channels, like Fox.
Left - Right = Zero

[Fancylad]

Fuck off Hihn

[John Galt Jr]

How many lies can Just Say'n squeeze onto a single page?

The Times corrected it the very next day, with no apology.

But we all admire your ceaseless battles against the vast left-wing conspiracies.
All 3,639 of them.

[Just Say'n]

"When Palin threatened to sue they quickly printed another editorial saying that they were mistaken and apologized."

That's what I wrote. And here was their apology, which they tweeted out:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/sarah.....s-shooting

[Just Say'n]

Be honest, Galt, you are mentally retarded, aren't you?

I'm not trying to make fun, you just seem to be profoundly slow.

[Ellis Wyatt]

Just Say'n|10.3.18 @ 3:12PM
Be honest, Galt, you are mentally retarded, aren't you?

He deals with facsts and sources.
You deal in childish insults and name-calling.

He comments for thoughtful and nonpartisan readers.
You seem to write for other 12-year-old mentalities, fellow goobers and your Authoritarian Right. Based om the evidence overall ... and the hissy fit I'm responding to.

[Ellis Wyatt]

They apologized to their readers, NOT to Palin.
And said that error did not detract from the overall story.
They had said her had had put candidates into crosshairs. It was Congressional districts.
Don't expect the full story from Fox!

[Square = Circle]

she put gun crosshairs onto her opponents.

So did Bernie. They were sure to mention his culpability in the Scalise shooting, right?

[Ellis Wyatt]

So did Bernie.

Bullshit

They were sure to mention his culpability in the Scalise shooting, right?

You seem easily brainwashed and manipulated, "In the crosshairs" can be a figure of speech for targeting someone in general, NOT literally like Palin's ad

PLUS ... the headlines also included "in the cross hairs": by TRUMP!
(Trump is in the same party,as Palin, a different party than Bernie.)

[loveconstitution1789]

Palin sued for an opinion and was not a crime.

Trump can sue the NYT for libeling him about a crime (tax fraud and tax evasion).

[Ellis Wyatt]

Trump can sue the NYT for libeling him about a crime (tax fraud and tax evasion).

OMFG! THOSE WERE TRUMP'S CRIMES!!! (alleged)
He did tell us you'd lie even to defend him of murder.

We also know he campaigned on a 40% tax cut for HIMSELF -- that a billionaire would pay a top income tax rate LOWER than many of his voters - 25%!

The best he could get is the same tax rate, but 20% of his total business income is TAX-FREE!
AND HE TOLD HIS GOOBERS THAT HIS TAXES WOULD INCREASE

Then there's the half-billion dollar investment in a project that will include his own new properties -- BY CHINA!

And the lawsuit against his blatant violation of the emoluments clause on the Constitution ...among all the other ways he's using his office for personal profit.

Anything else?

[loveconstitution1789]

Oh hihn, give up

[David Nolan]

Oh hihn, give up

I don't know who Hihn is, but Wyatt called out your MASSIVE fuckup.

How can anyone lie so shamelessly, immediately below the proof of your bullshit?

[John Galt Jr]

Are so many Nolan's attackers always so childish?
Will you say I too am Mary?
Was Obama born in Kanya?
Did Dubya plan the attack on the World Trade Center?
Is the new US/Canada/Mexico trade agreement the largest ever?
And what about all those space aliens in Roswell, New Mexico?

[Ellis Wyatt]

Weigel's Cock Ring|10.3.18 @ 11:59AM|#
Mary, all the cream in the world couldn't make your old ass look good!

How many times have you seen his ass? W

[junyo]

That would be awesome. Most of the times Trump sues a reporter he losses, but the discovery on his tax returns would be cool.

[Tony]

The shame is on America. Sure, he's the world's most successful grifter, which you have to acknowledge since he parlayed his fake business success into being POTUS. But it required you idiots to be either suckered by him or the Russians.

Stop trying to ruin the world through your stupidity. Just give not being fucking idiots a chance.

[TuIpa]

You first.

[Tony]

There is no dishonor in being a moron. Only in not realizing it.

[TuIpa]

I'm utterly shocked that you actually did it!

[loveconstitution1789]

Lefties like Tony cannot stop being morons. They would never know what to say or do.

[TuIpa]

Well, he managed to muster a moment of self-awareness at 11:17, so that's something.

[John Galt Jr]

Uh-oh, a fight on the Kindergarten playground.
It could get worse.
If they start spitting at each other.

[Jerryskids]

You might try explaining the time value of money to the fuckers so strongly opposed to the evil blood-sucking payday lenders and the evil blood-sucking price-gougers who raise prices for essential goods after a disaster. Some times a dollar or a gallon of gas today is worth far more than any amount of dollars or gallons of gas next month.

[Don't look at me!]

Those are different things.

[loveconstitution1789]

To borrow an example from the Houston Chronicle's Jim Woodruff: If someone were to give you the option of receiving $1,000 now or $1,200 in five years, it is possible that the $1,000 now would be more valuable by the time that $1,200 is scheduled to arrive. If you invested the $1,000 in a bond paying 5 percent, the money will be worth $1,276 in five years.

Yes, lets use the bad example from the Houston Chronicle.

Its actually $1276.28 assuming compounding annually at your 5% interest rate.

[KevinP]

Meanwhile, private income tax records were leaked to the NYT on a large scale, something that should worry any person who files a tax return more complex than the EZ form. But let's worry about Trump and the time value of money instead.

[WhatAboutBob]

Big scoop is that Trump used the tax laws to his advantage. Wow, who does that? Only Hitler!

[Ken Hagler]

So Trump kept $413 million from being stolen by the government, and we're supposed to think that's bad? That much money would have murdered an awful lot of foreigners in one of those unconstitutional wars of aggression that the New York Slimes love so much.

[David Nolan]

It's only stealing to goobers. Will of the people. Consent of of the governed.
Even Ayn Rand agreed. It's kinda hard to be more extreme than her!

[Just Say'n]

If "extreme" is being used as a synonym for "cult leader" than yes

[TuIpa]

Fuck off Hihn.

[TuIpa]

"goobers"

Put it on the poll, do people younger than 70 call people "goobers"

[David Nolan]

Goobers be stupid AGAIN!.

Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand
15. GOVERNMENT FINANCING IN A FREE SOCIETY

"Any program of voluntary government financing is the last, not the first, step on the road to a free society?the last, not the first, reform to advocate. It would work only when the basic principles and institutions of a free society have been established. It would not work today.

A process of liberation would be much more rapid than the process of enslavement had been, since the facts of reality would be its ally. But still, a gradual process is required?and any program of voluntary government financing has to be regarded as a goal for a distant future.

WHY? ... Consent of the Governed

Rand was Jeffersonian -- "Consent of the Governed" is the SOLE requirement for a moral POLITICAL philosophy. Which CAN be separate from MORAL philosophy ... IF one CHOOSES to live in a SOCIETY

In any society, the ONLY alternative to Consent of the Governed. is AUTHORITARIANISM. Yes, object to taxation ... but 5% cannot dictate to 95%, any more than 5% can deny the forming of a local Kiwanis ... or a garden club. How can anyone demand the freedom and opportunity of America ... while claiming those who created and maintain it have no right to do so?

Anything else?

Left - Right = Zero

[TuIpa]

Poll says 100% of people who say "goobers" are irrelevant and going to die of old age soon.

[John Galt Jr]

How does that equate to him proving your stupidity AS a goober?
Many can disagree with Ayn Rand, but only a TOTAL goober would say she was irrelevant.

Your TOTAL screwup on the use and meaning of goober, proves you BOTH a goober AND a Gomer!!.

Infantile goober/Gomer will now tell me to fuck off. (yawn)

[David Nolan]

Good one, John!

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor hihn.

[Ellis Wyatt]

Poor hihn.

You DARE to accus Nolan of LYING ABOUT AYN RAND'S WORDS ... WHEN HE PROVIDED A LINK.

How SICK are you???

Anyone can check and confirm the Ayn Rand quotes as stated above. and PROVE how psycho you are.

AND A POOR LOSER.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor hihn

[Just Say'n]

It's in the NYT, so Reason is going to run with it as fact without any analysis. That seems to be how things have worked since 2016

[John Galt Jr]

Why do you lie so very often? Or are you too stupid to know the only reported "fact" was that it was published?

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor HIhn and all his socks.

[Ellis Wyatt]

Any comment on the CONTENT?
Just more childish name-calling?

Can you EVER be a man ... or just a cowardly stalker?

[loveconstitution1789]

Hihnfected

[Overt]

So it is not clear to me what the article actually used. If the article just adjusted the total tax savings (or stealings, I guess) for inflation, that is acceptable. It is valid to say "He got $100 Million in tax savings, which adjusted for inflation would equal $300 Million today". It is a valid comparison.

However, calculating the time value of money is absolutely disingenuous. The purpose of TVM is to estimate what would happen if you put that money to work elsewhere. So, do I put this $1000 into my friend's business with the hope of earning $1,300 in 3 years, or does the TMV indicate that I could make more money elsewhere.

The disingenuous part of using TMV is that it assumes you are going to put the money to work. That is the growth of the money- the investing, labor, etc that increased it. And it is wrong to directly attribute that extra work to the original amount. If I steal $100 from you, and use it to buy a lottery ticket that get's me $1 Million, you don't say I stole $1 Million from you. You say I stole $100 from you. Likewise, if Trump got $100 in tax breaks, and then worked to create a $1 Million company, you don't say he got $1 Million in tax breaks. That would be absurd.

[D.D. Driver]

Agreed. It's particularly disingenuous with respect to the bit about a 3 year old receiving "the equivalent of $200k in today's dollars." It was seven decades ago. That's a lot of compounding.

[Adam330]

First off, the number the Times is adjusting is the amount of money Fred gave to Donald. Second, they are not using TMV. They are doing an inflation adjustment. When you're talking about streams of money received over the course of 50 plus years, that's the only meaningful way to add up all the money. A dollar in 1949 bought less than one in 1980 which bought less than one in 2000.

[Tony]

Nobody voted for Trump because of his alleged business acumen anyway. They voted for him because he bullied women and brown people. He's long been exposed as a fraud whose wealth depends entirely upon Daddy's charity. But he might as well be a Chatty Kathy doll programed to say "Mexicans are rapists."

[Just Say'n]

It is known that half of the country is racist.

Thank you for your service, Trust Fund Tony

[Tony]

Well, 19%.

[Just Say'n]

Tony loves science!

[TuIpa]

He also loves pointing out other people's privilege while using his to accomplish exactly nothing.

[Rufus The Monocled]

It must really be a strange existence for progressives who live daily believing one in every two people are literally Hitler.

Don't look now but Canada's two most populous provinces have right-leaning governments in power.

That makes the continent pretty much 'red' so to speak.

That's a lotta Literal Hitlers under the bed for the left to digest.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

You're the one going Godwin.

[Rufus The Monocled]

How is that 'Godwinning'?

It's the fucking god damn left who call everyone 'Hitler' and that's what my comment addresses.

I didn't say 'Hey, Palin and his prog lame-o's are literally Hitler!'

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

he bullied women and brown people

Hey you lefty. You're not giving Trump enough credit. He also bullied and harassed:

disabled people
Jeb Bush
veterans
Gold Star families
reporters
judges

among others

[TuIpa]

Cry more.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

I'm just making sure The Dotard gets the credit he has earned!

[TuIpa]

By crying a lot.

[Fancylad]

He also bullied and harassed:

Jeb Bush
reporters
judges

Good.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Except he didn't make fun of that disabled guy. He did that shtick to everyone. Heck, it can even be appropriately used on you!

I seem to recall Obama bullying judges and reporters too. Heck, he even took nuns to court!

[TuIpa]

You had your daddy's charity and you aren't nearly as successful, Trust fund Tony.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

What would $413 million invested in Warren Buffett's (a real businessman) Berkshire Hathaway be worth today?

Probably half a trillion (a guess).

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

oops - to be fair you would have to use the $60 million present value (from the 70s) number.

[Just Say'n]

Real estate is a hard investment category to make money in. That's why Trump got out of it in the 90's and moved into marketing. He's just a marketing guy. It's still a business, but it's definitely not real estate.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

It is actually one of the easiest if you have the capital to sit through downturns.

[Just Say'n]

Not really.

Spoiler: property doesn't always increase in value to account for inflation and costs of maintenance.

[TuIpa]

Screech's idea of a good investment is to make bets about investment then welsh on them when he loses.

Freeroll!

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

Until the recent peak (this year) New York City real estate prices were at all time highs.

[Just Say'n]

NYC is not a good example of all real estate. And the boroughs are not the same as Manhattan. It's a pretty big city. You should check it out some time.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

NYC is not a good example of all real estate

It is the topic here.

That is where old man Trump handed off his properties to the Con Man.

[TuIpa]

Screech talks abput real estate, is wrong, moves goalposts.

It's like I'm living Groundhog Day.

[Just Say'n]

I give up. You are very proud of being an idiot.

"Hey, the average income in the US is at an all time high, I guess you just got a raise, right?" This is how stupid you sound

[Just Say'n]

You are so incredibly stupid that even when I am agreeing with your point you still have to chime in with "Ah, but remember I'm profoundly dumb".

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

You're full of shit.

My point (and the point of this whole article) is that The Dotard fell into his wealth by inheriting NY City real estate and tax evasion.

[loveconstitution1789]

Buttplugger, as usual, You dont have a good point because your claims are false.

[Rufus The Monocled]

If you don't have people paying the rent how is it easy?

My father had to sit through 4 years of an empty commercial space and it was stressful beyond belief. It coincided with a downturn in his business. So he had to cover expenses out of pocket.

You have to be careful with real estate. It's not a foregone conclusion things go smoothly.

It worked out for us in the end, but he still lost four years of rental income. You can never get that back.

[loveconstitution1789]

The current members of the board of directors of Berkshire Hathaway are Warren Buffett (Chairman), Charlie Munger (Vice Chairman), Walter Scott, Jr., Thomas S. Murphy, Howard Graham Buffett (Warren's son), Ronald Olson, Charlotte Guyman, David Gottesman, Bill Gates, Steve Burke, Susan Decker, Meryl Witmer, Ajit Jain, and Greg Abel

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump taking millions and turning into billions!

Trump taking a desire to run for president and winning!

[David Nolan]

With Russian financing on the wealth. And Russian interference in an election he won by a mere 39,000 voters. 0.03% of the vote.

[TuIpa]

Cry more Hihn.

[Fancylad]

Fuck off Hihn

[David Nolan]

Fuck off Hihn.

Nobody here gives a flying fuck about facts or reality. Harrumph

[Mock-star]

It must be the *stellar* personality of Hihn - a guy who self admittedly repulsed over 90% of everyone he interacted with. Why, his personality was so bad that commenters here are taking it out on you, Galt jr., and Wyatt - all people who are obviously not Hihn. Man, thats some serious repulsion. I would probably take steps to not be like that, if I ever wanted to be taken seriously, but you do you, totally not Hihns.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor Hihn cannot even do the math to explain how "Russian financing" could possibly bring a bigger return than good investments in property and securities.

[Ellis Wyatt]

Poor Hihn cannot even do the math to explain how "Russian financing" could possibly bring a bigger return than good investments in property and securities.

YOU STUPID FUCKER!!

RUSSIAN "FINANCING" MEANS HIS BORROWING .... . NOT WHAT HE INVESTED IN!

STILL CONFUSED? If you buy a home "financed" by Bank of America .... YOU DID NOT INVEST IN BANK OF AMERICA!! They invested in in you!

The loans he got from a proven Russian money-launder ...Deutsche Bank ... when all his bankruptcies and business failures caused American banks to REFUSE lending to one of the worst risks in American.

Educate yourself ... google this EXACT phrase .... Trump "Deutsche Bank"
Then find somebody top read and explain it to you.
(snort)

His name is Nolan ... No Soros-financed conspiracy.

[loveconstitution1789]

Poor mary

[David Nolan]

Poor mary

(smirk) Still confused?

STILL CONFUSED? If you buy a home "financed" by Bank of America .... YOU DID NOT INVEST IN BANK OF AMERICA!! They invested in in you!

This one is even crazier than your OTHER massive fuckup on this page! that he called out.

Who's Mary??? Another fuckup?

[Ken Shultz]

I believe the president's objection is about using the time value of money to calculate how much money was made at the time. If they're trying to say that Trump was the beneficiary of $400 million in ill gotten gains, when it was only worth a fraction of that at the time of the tax fraud, then the question isn't whether the time value of money is a bogus calculation. The question is whether it's being used to inflate the headline number.

[BYODB]

^ This, and yes that looks like the intention.

[Ellis Wyatt]

I believe the president's objection is about using the time value of money to calculate how much money was made at the time.

it wasn't used at all!
How many psychos swallowed THAT bullshit?

[Just Say'n]

I don't think "time value of money" is related to economic literacy. Unless we want to discuss why "time value of money" exists. Simply asserting that stuff costs more now than it did before does not really pertain to economics so much as finance.

[Rufus The Monocled]

You can't explain TVM to progressives.

It's too nuanced. They live in a zero-sum economic bubble. They're to 'concrete' in the way they understand money and wealth. Think of the pie! That is, how they rationalize getting a piece of it. It's pretty unsophisticated.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

Why are the best investors all liberal?

You are truly an idiot.

(unless you point out liberals are not progressives)

Progressives make up about 15% of Democrats.

[TuIpa]

"Why are the best investors all liberal?"

Are they? Or do they just try to look that way because other liberals are easier to con?

[Rufus The Monocled]

I said progressives. I see a distinction between liberals and progressives.

And also, can I have a cite?

I know *liberal* wealthy elites can be pretty involved in their cronyism.

[loveconstitution1789]

I dont Liberals exist anymore.

That would requires Lefties to prize civil rights and they dont.

Liberals hate the right to keep and bear Arms (For USA) and self-defense (everywhere else in the World).

[John Galt Jr]

You can't explain TVM to progressives. It's too nuanced.

And more crazy-ass bullshit for Trump's cult of nodding bobbleheads.

Time Value of Money

[TuIpa]

Fuck off Hihn.

[John Galt Jr]

DID YOU STICK OUT YOUR TONGUE AT ME?

[D.D. Driver]

The other thing that will always annoy me is the question: "If X is so wealthy how come he only reported that he made $10,000 in income"?

[loveconstitution1789]

Seriously?

The total wealth could have come from other years where the taxes were already paid, deferred, or tax exempt.

Many people have millions in assets but only have income of under $100,000 per year. It keeps them in a lower tax bracket.

[Ellis Wyatt]

Are YOUR millions invested at such low gains?
Ans are you that ignorant of what the tax brackets are?

[Fairbanks]

The issue isn't gains - it's TAXABLE income. Plenty of people have millions in wealth with little to no taxable income in any given year.

[Michael S. Langston]

And investment gains are taxed as capital gains, not income (unless investment(s) are liqudated).

[Adam330]

The Times didn't use the time value of money. It did an inflation adjustment. It had to do this to make the total figure make sense. Trump received money from his father starting in about 1949 and continued to receive money from him and through his estate until 2004. If the Times just added all that money up in nominal terms, the number wouldn't be meaningful since a dollar in 1949 bought much more than a dollar today. So the Times inflation adjusted the numbers to today's dollars.

[John Galt Jr]

Trump is a fucking psycho liar as always, that Time Value of Money had ANYTHING to do with this.
TVM is not the same as ... adjusting for inflation. It's the exact opposite.

So we have the Leader of the Free World, who denies that inflation exists! And his cult never notices.

Is that also why he's created the most debt EVER (CBO 2024 forecast vs Obama;s actual)
And the first President to EVER increase the deficit ... over 50% ... in a single year ... with a booming economy!
Can we say he's an Economic Illiterate? (technically innumerate)

[loveconstitution1789]

The Times already back tracked on their libelous claims about Trump.

[Ellis Wyatt]

The Times already back tracked on their libelous claims about Trump.

You're as bad as Trump ,... MASSIVE bullshit .... whatever you need at the moment ... don't even CARE if anyone knows you're a shameless liar.

Because the Trump cult will swallow anything, not matter how crazy.

[loveconstitution1789]

Maga

[Brandybuck]

Not surprising from someone who literally believes in a zero-sum economy.

[David Friedman]

What I noticed about the piece he is criticizing was that they quoted a one million dollar claim by Trump without adjusting it to current dollars while contrasting it to a much larger figure which they had adjusted.

I think the adjustment they used took account of inflation but not real interest rates, so isn't really time value of money, but I'm not sure. If it did include real interest rates, and if Trump was given several hundred million but ended up with several billion, that would be evidence that he was a successful businessman, had consistently out performed the market.

[David Friedman]

The Times piece is interesting, and Fred Trump comes across as entertainingly unscrupulous in his approaches to tax minimization. My favorite bit goes as follows (numbers from memory).

Controlling interest in a building is recognized by the IRS as worth more than a minority interest. Fred Trump owns 100% of a building. He gives 49.8% ownership to his wife, .4% to his children, retains 49.8% ownership for himself. Now when he gives the building to his children or they inherit it both his and his wife's share count as minority interests, reducing the taxable value for gift tax or inheritance tax purposes.

Aside from issues of tax fraud, the other interesting question is whether Donald Trump is or is not a successful businessman. The article concludes, whether correctly I can't tell given how complicated the story is, that "Had Mr. Trump done nothing but invest the money his father gave him in an index fund that tracks the Standard & Poor's 500, he would be worth $1.96 billion today." Trump claims to be worth ten billion, so if that's true he is a successful businessman, outperformed the market on average. But other people have argued that his actual wealth is much less than that--and, given that he is boasting of what a good businessman he is, one might expect him to exaggerate it.

[loveconstitution1789]

A Trump lawyer provided a response that all the leaked info reveals that tax lawyers and professionals in the field completed the paperwork and the filings were accepted by the IRS and NY State.

[Ellis Wyatt]

ANOTHER fucking lie?
The New York State Tax Department Is Reviewing Fraud Allegations Involving the Trump Family

Is "deplorables" accurate?
An understatement?

[loveconstitution1789]

Maga

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump's Lawyer's statement about NYT inaccurate article

Statement to The Times from Charles J. Harder, a lawyer for President Trump
The New York Times' allegations of fraud and tax evasion are 100% false, and highly defamatory. There was no fraud or tax evasion by anyone. The facts upon which the Times bases its false allegations are extremely inaccurate. All estate matters were handled by licensed attorneys, licensed CPAs and licensed real estate appraisers who followed all laws and rules strictly.

[loveconstitution1789]

(contd) All matters were filed with the IRS and New York taxing authorities. The returns and tax positions that the Times now attacks were examined in real time by the relevant taxing authorities. The taxing authorities requested a few minor adjustments, which were made, and then fully approved all of the tax filings. These matters have now been closed for more than a decade. President Trump had virtually no involvement whatsoever with these matters.The affairs were handled by other Trump family members who were not experts
themselves and therefore relied entirely upon the aforementioned licensed professionals to ensure full compliance with the law. Should the Times state or imply that President Trump participated in fraud, tax evasion, or any other
crime, it will be exposing itself to substantial liability and damages for defamation

[Ellis Wyatt]

The New York State Tax Department Is Reviewing Fraud Allegations Involving the Trump Family

[loveconstitution1789]

Maga

[Ellis Wyatt]

You lied again. I proved it. Now you babble

MAGA = Morons Are Governing America
MAGA = My Attorney Got Arrested!
MAGA = My Advisors Going Away!
MAGA = My Associates Getting Allocutions!
MAGA = Make America (debt) Great Again.!

[AD-RtR/OS!]

Is Donald Trump our first libertarian President?
Nick.....Nick.....

[moschinoonline]

I don't think she's wrong in this, either. Whatever else I've said about Blasey Ford, I still think she believes she's a victim, even if she's opportunistically promoting her victimhood. It just looks bad when the actual President of the United States is mocking her to laughter for an audience. My dislike for Trump's opponents doesn't mean I've set aside how much I dislike Trump's bad decisions.

It's also not exactly wise to call for tougher libel laws, since those often end up as infringing on free speech. It's nice to hammer the media over how bad they are and how many blatantly false things they've run with and had to retract-raise awareness of their issues without using government force to silence them.

Moschino Daffy Duck Sweater Blue
moschino umbrella