Gun Control

Trump the 'Big Second Amendment Person' Becomes 'Trump the Gun Grabber'

Trump's embrace of gun control is consistent with his views before he ran for president.

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C-SPAN

Donald Trump's embrace of gun control during a meeting with members of Congress yesterday was startling to anyone who took seriously his pose as a staunch defender of the Second Amendment during his presidential campaign. But it looks more like a reversion to his actual opinions if you take a longer view.

Yesterday Trump assured legislators that he will soon impose an administrative ban on bump stocks and said he supported legislation aimed at encouraging the sharing of information with the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used to clear people who buy guns from federally licensed dealers. The National Rifle Association supports both of those measures. But Trump also spoke favorably of requiring background checks for all gun transfers, raising the minimum age for buying long guns, pre-emptively confiscating guns from people who might be dangerous, and even banning so-called assault weapons, to the visible delight of Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.). The NRA opposes all of those ideas, as do the vast majority of Republicans in Congress.

"While today's meeting made for great TV," said NRA spokeswoman Jennifer Baker, "the gun control policies discussed would make bad policy that wouldn't keep our children safer." The New York Times reports that Trump's comments "prompted a frantic series of phone calls from N.R.A. lobbyists to their allies on Capitol Hill." Breitbart News, an early and steadfast Trump booster, ran a story under the headline (since revised) "Trump the Gun Grabber."

In 2016 Trump was enthusiastically backed by the NRA, which spent more than $30 million on ads and other communications aimed at electing him and defeating Hillary Clinton. The unprecedented support was driven not just by Clinton's anti-gun views but by Trump's public statements about the folly of gun control and the importance of the right to armed self-defense.

"I am against gun control," Trump announced at the 2011 Conservative Political Action Conference. He declared himself "a very strong person on the Second Amendment" in a 2013 interview with Fox News. "I'm a big Second Amendment person," he told CNN in 2015. "I believe in it so strongly, and if you take the guns away from the good people, and the bad ones are going to have target practice." In his 2015 book Great Again, he said he was "very much in favor of making all concealed-carry permits valid in every state" (a policy he rejected yesterday as politically unfeasible).

Trump continued in the same vein during the presidential debates. Asked during a January 2016 debate whether there were "any circumstances" in which the government "should be limiting gun sales of any kind in America," he replied, "No. I am a Second Amendment person." Trump promised to appoint Supreme Court justices who would "uphold the Second Amendment" and said he would abolish "gun-free zones" around schools. His most significant deviation from the NRA line was his support for blocking gun sales to people on the FBI's "watch lists" (which the NRA resisted on due process grounds).

At the NRA's annual convention in April 2017, Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, called Trump "the most proudly pro-gun presidential candidate" in U.S. history. "I am going to come through for you," Trump told the attendees. "You have a true friend and champion in the White House."

Given all that, you can understand why the NRA might be a bit disappointed by Trump's sudden alliance with gun controllers. But prior to 2011, when Trump was already contemplating a bid for the GOP presidential nomination (although he did not register as a Republican until the following year), his views on gun control were pretty much what you'd expect from a New York Democrat, which he was from 2001 to 2009.

In his 2000 book The America We Deserve, Trump backed "the ban on assault weapons" and "a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun," suggesting three days would be about right. (The federal "assault weapon" ban has since expired, and there is no federal waiting period for gun buyers, who are generally cleared by NICS within a few minutes.) Trump faulted both Democrats who "want to confiscate all guns," which he called "a dumb idea," and Republicans who "walk the NRA line and refuse even limited restrictions."

The Trump of 2000 is the Trump who attended yesterday's meeting. "Some of you people are petrified of the NRA," he said. "You can't be petrified." He even accused Sen. Patrick Toomey (R-Pa.), who took a lot of heat from the NRA for backing "universal background checks" (which Trump now supports) in 2013, of questioning a higher purchase age for rifles only because "you're afraid of the NRA."

To be sure, Trump also called himself "a big fan of the NRA" and "the biggest fan of the Second Amendment." But his main message was that Congress should pass a "comprehensive" bill that splits the difference between the two sides and seems to do something about mass shootings. That position is consistent with the views Trump expressed before running for president. It also makes sense if we assume that Trump, as usual, is bored by policy details and ultimately does not care very much about this issue one way or the other.

How else to explain Trump's blithe recommendation that police "take the guns first" and "go through due process second" when they encounter someone they think might be dangerous? That comment, which reflects Trump's authoritarian instincts and his general disregard for civil liberties, pretty conclusively demonstrates that he does not attach much value to the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment. He became a "Second Amendment person" for the same reason he became an anti-abortion person, and he is equally sincere about both.

NEXT: Florida School Shooting Resurrects Terrible Plan to Prevent People on the No Fly List from Buying Guns

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  1. Trump might want to consider who elected him…

    1. Why, what are they going to do? Vote for Hillary next time?

      1. Just remember, no matter what Trump does, Hillary would have been worse.

        1. Republicans could unify against Hillary’s anti-gun views. Harder to do that with the Pres of your own party(well at least in name)

        2. Hardly. Trump is taking us back to the 1920s and 1930s with isolationism and protectionism. Hillary would just be the same-old same-old of the last 30 years. That’s a hell of a lot better.

          Also, he and his followers have taken the Republican party to a point where if you aren’t a Trump follower you aren’t a Republican. It’s the same mindset as the radical left. If you aren’t in lockstep with them you are the enemy. The Republican Party was raised from the ashes of the Whigs; it’s set to become the Whigs.

          1. What the hell are you talking about? I know,plenty of pro Trump people and not a single one of them is anything like what you’re describing. Where are you getting that?

      2. Exactly. Just wait until the Dems nominate Elizabeth Warren in 2020. I cannot wait for the Trump sycophants to go on and on about “sure, Trump might be wobbly on guns, and he didn’t build a wall, and he didn’t repeal ObamaCare, and he couldn’t give two shits about abortion, and he finds new and creative ways to undermine his own agenda every single day, butmELIZABETH WARREN IS LITERALLY HITLER YOU MUST VOTE FOR TRUMP”

        1. I will vote for whatever dumbass the Libertarians nominate, but I will definitely cheer for Trump over Warren.

          1. Yeah. I voted for McCain in The-Most-Important-Election-Ever, and I still feel dirty for it. First and last time I ever voted for an R or D.

            1. sarc, say it ain’t so!

              1. Fool me once…

            2. Mr somewhat reasonable McCain will be dead by then, pick some other chump.

      3. Trump can and should be primaried. Any Republican besides John Kasich would be a better choice on guns.

      4. The Tea Party’s coffin is sealed. No major politician cares about the TP any more, if indeed they ever did.

      5. They could “primary” him or let him be impeached in favor of Pence who is much stronger on the 2nd Amendment.

    2. Yep, if he doesn’t shape up there’s a good chance they might all vote Democrat in 2020.

      1. Assuming it will still be legal to ride our unicorns to the polls.

    3. Putin was preoccupied with his super weapons.

      1. Come one, we all know his secret super missiles are just Russian drunk drivers with the missiles in their trunk. No defense shield could possibly hit one of those.

        1. The dashcam footage will be amazing.

  2. Donald Trump’s embrace of gun control during a meeting with members of Congress yesterday was startling to anyone who took seriously his pose as a staunch defender of the Second Amendment during his presidential campaign.

    People that stupid are probably pretty easily startled.

    1. “Art of the Deal”. Everything is negotiable. Trump has no foundational principles other than that. I am so amazed that the American public that voted for him didn’t realize that he stands for nothing other than winning whatever is winning for him at the moment. He is the epitome of ‘fake news’.

      1. I’m sure he has so,e underlying principles, he just isn’t a political ideologue. He certainly isn’t a movement conservative, nor did he campaign as one.

  3. I kinda wonder what the AM talking heads have to say about this. Kinda. Not enough to actually listen for myself.

    1. I used to listen to talk radio, until Trump got the nomination. After that I couldn’t understand anything any of the hosts said because they were gagging on Trump’s dick.

      1. couldn’t understand anything any of the hosts said because they were gagging on Trump’s dick.

        I’ve notices that to some extent. But the guy in rva is not so bad about Trump. He does like to slobber all over law enforcement though. I always have to turn it off when he gets on the topic.

      2. Don’t know who you’re listening to, but all the guys I hear pretty much call it like they see it. None of the, are in the tank for what he does just because it’s Trump doing it, nor are any of them on board with what he said about banning anything firearm related.

    2. Hannity pretended like it never happened. He was talking about Russia for the thousandth time.

      1. Fuck that guy. Even when I listened to talk radio I couldn’t stand him. Something about his voice. Like nails on a chalkboard. Ugh.

        1. To me he always came across as one of those faux tuff guys, the sort who would growl “kill ’em all and let Gawd sort ’em out” but wouldn’t go in the military because something something trick knee.

          1. Or something something bone spurs.

            1. Or something something run to Canada.

  4. Trump fanboys hardest hit.

  5. I can only hope that the gun policies he promotes get struck down by the judges he appoints.

    1. (Because Obama’s judges will vote for Trump on this)

  6. Welp, there goes 2020.

    1. This is Hillary’s big chance to get the gun vote.

      1. Gun grabber turned 2A champion?

      2. Joe Biden’s gonna get a shotgun, a shotgun.

  7. You’re a fool, Jacob. It doesn’t count until he does something. You can absolutely trust all the people who say so.

    1. Yup. Hes getting money from gun grabbers for gun control.

      Then he will dump them. This shit is hilarious.

    2. By that logic, Obama wasn’t anti-gun because he never enacted any gun control laws.

      1. Gun rights weren’t in danger under Obama. They are more at risk now than they have been since 1996.

        1. No, he just did things like trying to use the EPA to ban lead ammo, and make bullets unaffordable. No problem at all. Or shit like getting the US to join the UN small arms treaty ban. No problem there either.

    3. Yes, better to wait to see what he actually does. My guess is soon enough he’ll realize that backing anything more than minor gun-control and failing to support reciprocity will take the wind out of the sails of his support and make him vulnerable. He can always be primaried.

  8. Can Ken and Gilmore please come and explain what dimension of chess Trump is up to now?

    1. I will say that I would specifically be curious to see an explanation of the “midterm chess” theory. For all the ways it is supposed to help purple-district Republicans, isn’t it also clearly true that, to the extent that Trump really does succeed in deenergizing anti-Trumpism by making himself appear more moderate on this issue, he also humiliates anti-gun purple district Republicans by making them clearly appear “far to the right of Trump”? Can’t you see the ads now–clips of Trump heaping praise on Democratic proposals, parroting Democratic talking points about being “petrified” of the NRA, shooting down Republican strategy as being in bad faith, and all that? How is this supposed to play to the Republican soccer moms who could swallow a “very pro-2A” congressman over whatever socialist the Dems foolishly ran against him, but certainly not one of those raving, craven extremists we have been reading about, and which Trump has just proved the local guy to indeed be?

    2. 2D tic-tac-toe. You cucks are too thick and literal minded to grasp even that.

    3. Still “n”th D chess.

      Gun grabbers are donating money to Trump’s campaign for gun control.

  9. (The federal “assault weapon” ban has since expired, and there is no federal waiting period for gun buyers, who are generally cleared by NICS within a few minutes.)

    This actually surprised me. I get most of my guns through private sales. Don’t like asking permission to exercise a basic right. Until a few months ago the last time I went through the “process” was the mid 90s. Took a week. Then when I got my brand-spanking-new XDe it took maybe ten minutes to get approved. Sweet gun by the way. I wish I had waited though. I got the 9mm version, and they just came out with a .45. Bummer.

    1. The .45 is good; 13 round capacity and eats whatever you feed it, including SWCs that my H&K clearly thought was beneath its Prussian heritage.

      As NICS, just took possession of a Mossberg today; process much more streamlined now. My friendly FFL puts it all through online and before I had the 88 together it was done. Having a CPL helps.

      1. I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing. The XD-E is a new single-stack DA/SA. Came out last year.

        http://www.springfield-armory……ack-45acp/

    2. 9mm holds more than .45 and is therefore better.

      If you have a carry permit, you can skip the NICS check in many states.

      I had a NICS check a few years ago (before my permit) that was taking more than 15 minutes. Clerk said, “If they don’t call back in the next 10 minutes, we’ll just process the sale. It’s on them if they don’t call back in a reasonable time.”

      1. I don’t have a permit. And as a matter of principle I never will. It also helps that here in Maine they recently passed a Constitutional Carry bill, so I don’t need one. For the most part. As far as I’m concerned, a permit means that in any interaction with the cops, once they run me though the system, they’re going to be extra jumpy because I might be armed. Jumpy cops scare me.

        1. So you’re all good as long as you don’t want to leave northern New England.

          1. Basically.

            1. I wonder how long it will take for our increasingly nationalized, ideologized politics to reach Vermont. How long can they maintain their traditional extreme-left, extreme-pro-2A local political culture in its hermetically sealed bubble? Are we going to see the crunchy Berkinstockers finally stand up for “common sense” like their counterparts elsewhere “since they won’t do so in D.C.”?

              1. NH is where an 18 year old woman was arrested for being topless, but not for open carrying a gun.

                Google Cassidy Nicosia.

                1. “Nicosia” better be Cass Elliot’s real surname if you expect me to be bothered spending any time searching for topless pictures of her.

        2. In Texas, a permit is often a “get out of speeding ticket” card.

          Texas allows carrying in your car (and to/from your car) without a permit.

  10. Mr. Art of the Deal just peeled two percent off of DJI with his retarded tariff bullshit.

    1. On the bright side NPR was explaining the problem with tariffs this morning and I think you’re winning over liberals to free trade.

      1. This is good for fomenting further disunity on the left; that’s about all the good that’s likely to come of it. What we all wouldn’t give for even the most unapologetically autarkic prewar Republican to run things nowadays! Sad, but that’s what it’s come to.

  11. My
    AR’s
    Goin
    Away!

    1. F that noise.

  12. An opening position in a negotiation is not always a life long commitment – – – – – – – – – –

    Trump is not a republican.
    Trump is not a democrat.
    Trump is President of the United States.
    Deal with it as best you can.

    1. We won’t know his position until later, maybe he doesn’t know his position now.

      1. Let me guess his position: He wants to sign a gun bill in the Oval Office, surrounded by a bipartisan group of applauding legislators, some cops, and some victims’ relatives.

        As to the details of such a bill, I’m not sure he’s going to be very particular about specifics.

      2. Euphemisms…

      3. “You have to elect him to find out what he thinks”

        1. And even then you don’t know.

    2. Lomg, you must understand that much of the commentariat here are bitchy smart as reactionaries that barely understand what they’re talking about and not really capable of being insightful. Those people usually make their presence known by throwing out some ad hominem about how a trump is a moron. As if any of them are smarter.

      I’m used to it now, and like I always say, idiots abound.

  13. He became a “Second Amendment person” for the same reason he became an anti-abortion person, and he is equally sincere about both.

    And unlike every other politician who shifts his public face to appeal to a needed voter base, he doesn’t have the political instincts to stay on script.

  14. The NRA opposes all of those ideas, as do the vast majority of Republicans in Congress with overall popular support for all of those things together being questionable at best.

    Libertarian moment!

  15. Literal Hitler is for gun control, eh?

    1. He literally was.

      1. Hitler contained multitudes.

        1. Hitler did contain the multitudes all right.

  16. “Donald Trump’s embrace of gun control during a meeting with members of Congress yesterday was startling to anyone who took seriously his pose as a staunch defender of the Second Amendment during his presidential campaign. “

    1) He hasn’t actually done anything yet.

    He talks about and tweets all kinds of things. He didn’t nuke the North Koreans and didn’t send the national guard in to stop NFL players from kneeling during the national anthem either.

    I made fun of people for getting so excited over that. My tune doesn’t change because now it’s something I care about.

    2) He’s stealing the Democrats’ thunder ahead of the midterms.

    Trump is facing impeachment if and when the Democrats take the House. He’ll move back to the right when he faces Republican challengers in the primaries after the midterms. (Jeff Flake is already in New Hampshire).

    3) Hillary Clinton campaigned on banning “assault weapons”, etc. Let’s not pretend that Hillary Clinton isn’t worse on gun control–just because Trump isn’t excellent.

    1. Lookey here, Ken just scored a threefer.

      1. It’s been a fun week ’round here.

    2. I asked about the midterm theory above. Also, why should Trump give a shit if he is impeached? Is he afraid the country really would be behind the Dems? Because the last time it was tried, the opposition lost seats in a sixth-year midterm.

      1. *behind the effort

      2. I told you yesterday I’d post all that stuff in AM Links. It’s there.

        Nobody wants to be impeached and God only knows what the never trumpers will do to him if they can. The Republicans might decide they prefer Pence.

        He’d rather avoid impeachment for a number of reasons. For one, if you thought Mueller was av distraction from the things he wants to get done now, just wait until he’s impeached–it’ll be that Mueller distraction times ten.

        If the Democrats control both chambers, they’ll launch new joint committee investigations of every single thing he ever says to anybody in private, too. The’re out to get him, so why would he want them to win?

        All they can do is hurt him.

    3. “Trump is facing impeachment if and when the Democrats take the House.”

      There are only 8 Republican held Senate seats up for reelection this year. It takes a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to remove a president after the House issues articles of impeachment.

      There is zero chance the Democrats will have enough votes in the Senate to remove Trump from office.

      The Republican controlled House issuing articles of impeachment against Bill Clinton that then failed in the Senate actually strengthened Clinton politically.

      Please explain why you imagine Trump should be worried about this outcome.

      1. They probably won’t be able to remove him, but that doesn’t mean he won’t be impeached.

        It’s a huge distraction and a huge embarrassment in the eyes of swing voters.

        The question is why he should want to be impeached?

        He doesn’t have a lot of friends on the Republican side of the Senate either. Chances are the Republicans will vote to keep him, but Cruz, Rubio, McCain’s neocon buddies, even Rand Paul, they all have axes to grind.

        He doesn’t want to have to depend on them to save him. He doesn’t want to be impeached, but if the Democrats take the House, he almost certainly will be pt through the grinder. The’ll depose him on every embarrassing detail and put it online for everyone to see–and go over it with a fine toothed comb.

        Why would he want to subject himself to that?

        1. The Dems don’t want Trump impeached. They prefer him to Pence by miles.

        2. And alienating the people that elected him is somehow going to help him? I think Republican enthusiasm will be extremely low.

      2. The Democratic party establishment actually liked Clinton. The Republican party establishment doesn’t like Trump. That’s at least some reason for him to be worried.

    4. Trump is trolling lefties like Trump trolls lefties.

      It is hilarious that certain people think that he suddenly changed.

      1. It is hilarious that certain people think that he suddenly changed.

        Yet you believe him when he suddenly changed from his anti-gun beliefs in order to run as a Republican?

        I’ll add that he changes his mind on most things 5 times before breakfast.

      2. He didn’t change. He was never pro-gun. He’s just revealing his true colors.

    5. No, Trump is worse on gun control because the GOP would have filibustered any gun control law that Hillary proposed (even if the Dems took control of both houses of Congress).

      Will they do the same with Trump? Who knows?

    6. Ken, Ken, Ken………
      You’re trying to be thoughtful and reasonable about this, instead of shitting your pants and screaming nonsensical ad hominem against a Trump. Don’t you want to be one of the cool kids that are so above it all here? I would, but I know deep down I can’t possibly shit my pants enough to be as cool as the rest of the commentariat.

      Seriously though, good points.

  17. Absolutely. He always believed in 2A, but only for the Trumpkins. “I could shoot someone walking down Fifth Avenue.” It was never a principled stance. Breitbart had no problem with this as long as they thought they’d be the ones in power. But now that the dem backlash is looming, they are running scared. Back to ‘first principles’. Too funny!

    1. Seriously? That was just drivel.

  18. This is a disturbing turn of events. And wtf is with Feinsteins face? Trump really got her evil ban-boner going.

    P.s. “Mr. and Mrs. America, turn ’em all in”

      1. I prefer see-you-next-Tuesday.

        1. Isn’t it “catch you next Tuesday”? I think that makes more sense.

          1. Jesus. Do you know anyone under 30? “See” is c. Everyone knows this. Fuck.

            1. I know what it is. Prince was doing that shit three decades ago, young blood. I’m saying the use you have put it to is a plainly inferior way to take on the particular task at hand, mixing one homophone with three initials like that. It’s inelegant. You can turn to such compromises if needed, but it’s not here. There’s a perfectly, equally intuitive way to construct the phrase so it actually fucking spells C.U.N.T. There is utterly no reason to resort to C being fucking “see.”

              Look, Roger the fucking alien does it this way, and he is the coolest motherfucker ever to have lived. It’s well established, and it’s clearly better.

              1. I still like it my way. So nanny nanny boo boo.

              2. lol, “you” is also a homophone, dingus. In fact it makes more sense to pair two homophones initially with two initialisms subsequently.

    1. It was so awesome watching Republicans pols having to eat Trump’s shit. Y’all deserve every fucking backstab for nominating that clown.

      1. Y’all

        Y’all who?

        1. My bad. You’re a libertarian.

        2. Come on, don’t leave me hanging; what’s the punchline? (This is an old Hee Haw joke, right?)

          1. Know why you never see a black guy at a square dance?

            Any time someone yells “Ho Down” he thinks his woman been shot!

      2. You mean having Trump beat out all the establishment Republicans and then push RINOs to do stuff they didn’t want to?

  19. Been a while for one of these, but… sexual assault roundup. Sherman Alexie in the #MeToo seat.

    1. I checked Amazon…one of his books is called You Don’t Have To Say You Love Me.

  20. Trump pulled the same shit during the healthcare and immigration meetings but it was all talk. I think Trump’s words will be useful to confuse and infuriate conservative voters during the next couple elections but I don’t see a Republican House caving on the 2A though Republicans will be blamed the next time someone massacres people with a scary looking semi auto rifle in the same way Democrats are blamed when crime increases. Republicans are damned if they do or don’t.

    1. Or they could have the balls to finally confront the gun grabbers’ “something must be done (by government force) to stop the killing” premise, and denounce “mass shootings” as the moral panic that it is. (Hard to remember that we once actually debated the ethics of overreacting to these things and giving these copycats the public importance they sought. Today it would be denounced as a morally abhorrent “remaining silent.”) Until this is debunked at its source, it will keep coming back stronger and stronger until it wins.

      But of course, it is constitutionally impossible for conservatives to work to discourage panic, worry, and fear of any kind. They just can’t get themselves to do it, no matter how much it would be in their interest. It’s like asking a fish to adopt to life on land.

      1. Yeah, it’s a moral panic. Every blip is a reason to make laws that will do nothing of substance, but will give people calling for the laws justification for their moral stance when they see the laws passed. That a decade hence it made no difference is a decade that removes them from any responsibility for its failure.

        And now the but-monkey, the USA murder rate is roughly four times the rest of the first-world (mass murders are blips, they have only a minor effect on the rate, but we have most of the blips). If gun control won’t solve it and isn’t a solution, then we have to accept that our culture is the real problem, and worse, we have to accept that the rest of the first-world are better cultures (I’m not sure that that is or isn’t a false dichotomy, you can make your objections). Having said that, the rest of the English-speaking world has a bigger problem with assaults than we do. That should give you reason to raise the flag of American Exceptionalism for at least one case.

        – brought to you by Jim Crow, proof of the USA being the bastion of liberty and freedom for all. South Africa approves of this message.

    2. The only effect of Trump doing this is to put congressional Republicans in electoral jeopardy by forcing them to vote against a “protect the children” bill lest it become law.

      There is absolutely no way this makes any sense as a political strategy. It won’t necessarily result in disaster for the GOP, but it certainly won’t benefit them.

  21. Theoretically, he’s not wrong. If there were a compromise that would prevent shootings and represent a conclusion to the debate over gun ownership, then I would be in favor.

    If he lets this process work out and discovers that there is no such thing, then my opinion will depend upon what he does with that information.

    1. There is nothing. Absolutely nothing to prevent lone violent people hurting people.

      All this talk of gun control is about controlling Americans, not guns.

      1. Yep. The fact is that even without guns, it’s incredibly easy to kill lots of people with even a little bit of planning. Fortunately, most people aren’t psychopaths with violent persona,it’s disorders, so outside of Islamic extremists, it’s pretty rare.

  22. Lordy, maybe the conservatives will figure out that Trump is an inconsistent moron. If they still support him after this it will only because they are trying to manipulate him. Maybe they will hold all this Russia stuff over him. Kind of a Manchurrian move. They can say they will not impeach him if he votes the GOP party line. There really is no more excuse for this pathetic president and the GOP. They clearly made a deal with the devil and unless they can save face they need to keep doubling down on this dumbass.

    1. Yes, you’re so much smarter than Trump. I might put some stock into so,e of the other crap you spewed out, but then you went and gave credence to the massively discredited Russia conspiracy. You might want to take that pablum down the way to HuffPo, spSlate, or some other progtarded place that buys into progressive fan fiction.

  23. So, once again it seems important to remind people that Trump is a Democrat from circa 1995 which can be mistaken as a Republican in 2018 by those who aren’t paying attention.

  24. At first, I too was concerned about what was said yesterday and then the President said something that made me realize exactly what he was doing. When he told Feinstein she should add the assault weapons ban to the Manchin/Toomey bill it became obvious he is playing the Dems once again. He told her you should add it, he never said ” and I will sign it.” Do you actually think he believes such a ban will make it through the Senate or the House? What it will so is paint the Dems as the party that wants to strip people of their right to self defense. I think the President knows the only thing that will come to his desk, if anything< will be very minimal and impact almost no one in any way. It is called politics for a reason.

    1. I agree with you TxJack.

  25. P.S. A picture of Dianne Feinstein grinning with Trump while they discuss guns may not play well with the Republican faithful, but control of the House will be decided by swing Democrats over issues like whether Trump is an immigrant hating racist, whether Trump supports murder sprees with bump-stocks, etc. The midterms are a referendum on Trump.

    That photo-op with Feinstein isn’t meant to fire up the Republican base. It’s meant to take the wind out of swing Democrats’ sails. If he can make Feinstein grin with his “common sense” gun control measures, then he can’t be the NRA loving, homicidal maniac the press and the Democratic leadership makes hi out to be.

    P.P.S. I find the proposal to sell due process short especially disturbing–and not just from a Second Amendment perspective–but the bump-stock thing, while wrong on principle, doesn’t bother me the same way. If I understand properly, they’re talking about making bump-stocks like suppressors or SBRs, where you have to pay a fee and get permission from the BATFE?

    I’d rather be able to buy an SBR or a suppressor than a bump-stock; in fact, if we could take suppressors and SBRs off the list of things that require filing a form with the BATFE and put bump-stocks on the list, I’d think that was a pragmatic net plus.

    1. My gunsmith makes his own suppressors. He’s got a .22 that barely makes a click when you shoot it. And he modified a full-auto AR to be fully suppressed. It’s got a 14 inch barrel (I think) inside a can that’s the length of a normal barrel. I haven’t shot it yet, but he says it sounds like “dropping a phone book.” He let me shoot his suppressed .22. Haven’t convinced him to give me a go with the big toy. Yet.

      1. They sell an adapter that will let you use an oil filter as a suppressor. Can’t see use sights if the don’t clear the filter though.

        I don’t want to be on the government’s list of gun owners, especially now that they want to be able to easily seize people without due process and throw them in an institution for owning guns–or was it the other way around?

        First you say they’re crazy and then you seize their guns?

        First you seize their guns and ten you don’t need due process to say they’re crazy?

        Is there a difference?

        As long as they check both boxes and procedures were followed, they’re all good, right?

          1. Wild Bill!

        1. With 1/3 of home owners admitting to owning a gun, a list of gun owners isn’t useful. They still need to go door to door to be effective.

          A list of unusual items is different in that it makes confiscation more efficient when they are later banned.

          1. I read somewhere that the average gun owner had over ten firearms. That means that there are a lot of people who don’t own any.

            But you are right. Between private sales, gifts, and family inheritances, there is no possible way that Uncle Sam can know who to disarm.

            1. They may say that the FBI doesn’t keep track of who owns firearms, but I don’t believe them.

              They’ll get the information from the sellers if they ever decide to come after AR-15s.

              The great thing about injustices are that they don’t have to be meted out with any kind of equal protection standard. Like the IRS, they’ll find ways to make you miserable if you don’t turn inyour AR-15.

              1. That’s what the ammo is for!

          2. They won’t make it my door. When all my neighbors see military/police going door to door and busting them down, all bets are off.

            They would have never tried that bullshit like they did in Boston in my area of Georgia. Cops walking down the streets threatening people looking from windows or opening doors. All bets would have been off.

            1. They would have never tried that bullshit like they did in Boston in my area of Georgia.

              Mass has some really fucked up laws regarding firearms. The government doesn’t like them. Not one bit. The hoops people must jump through to legally arm themselves in that state are difficult and time consuming. Because of this the cops there know that most people are unarmed, and that encourages them to be even more dickish than the average pig. Cops in that state have a national reputation for being about as bad as they can get. Only LA and Chicago cops are worse (again places where it is difficult to legally arm oneself).

            2. Compare that to where I live. A town of 3000 people with two grocery stores, one hardware store, and two places to buy guns and ammo.

    2. I explained to you how this analysis makes no sense last night, and you’re back at it again today like nothing happened.

      The Congressional elections are primarily about the individual members of Congress, not about Trump. If they vote against gun control, the Dems will skewer those members for not protecting the children blah blah blah. The idea that Trump supporting gun control would cause anti-gun people to vote for a pro-gun Congress member is pretty ludicrous.

      On the other hand, if the vulnerable GOP members vote for the gun control bills, then they will pass easily — the Dems would only need 20 to cross over in the House and 2 in the Senate — and land on Trump’s desk. At which point he can’t really hold up the illusion of supporting gun control without letting the gun control become law.

  26. Trump also just announce tariff taxes. I suppose that was expected. Maybe he’ll Make Democrats Free-Trade Again.

    1. I hate to sound like a broken record, but again, it’s all about stealing the Democrats’ issues ahead of the midterms.

      Bernie Sanders said yesterday that he wouldn’t vote to repeal the Trump tax reform bill.

      Trump’s economic philosophy may now be to the left of Bill Clinton–although maybe not on deregulation.

  27. I am disappointed, however, I know Trump loves to play games. Maybe he’ll do a trade, “OK, we’ll pass gun control but you have to give me concealed carry reciprocity and funding for the wall.”
    Then the Democrats will say “we can’t do that.”
    Then he’ll say, “well, I tried to give you what you wanted, but you said no.”
    And he’ll get reelected.

    1. He touts himself as a dealmaker…so unlike other politicians, maybe his endgame is an actual deal…details negotiable…but what do I know, I thought Hillary would beat him.

      1. It’s not like he’s published a book about this…

        1. Its more fun watching lefties think Trump is on their side of gun control now.

          1. Not as fun as watching righties think Trump has ever been on their side of gun control.

            1. Who cares what side of gun control Trump is on as long as it doesn’t involve unconstitutional gun restrictions.

  28. Nobody wants to take your guns away.

    1. A lot of people want to do that. So by “Nobody” I assume you mean Terence Hill.

  29. They could attach an assault weapons ban to legislation strengthening immigrations laws.

    Then we can watch democrats having to make a decision about who’s more important. Their own kids, or foreigners.

    1. Dems would just accuse the GOP of holding children’s safety hostage to try to pass their xenophobic racism.

  30. Wait, you’re telling me that Donald Trump doesn’t have a well thought out philosophy with core ideas and principles!?! This is my shocked face.
    *Shrugs* Still better than Shrillarly.

  31. American citizens and We the People had better WTFU! Educate yourselves to new world disordered police state tyranny!

    David J. Pyles vs. Sheriff Mike Winters, Deputy Phil Cicero, Jackson County, Scott Clauson and City of Medford, U.S. District Court, Medford Division, 9th Circuit (CIRCUS!), case no. 12-CV-00346-CL !!!

    https://reason.com/archives/201…..e-policing

    When they came for David Pyles and his guns on 03/04/2010 to 03/08/2010 in Oregon, via a corrupt employer’s effected dirty-tricks, false allegations and false police reports, as an attempt to politically railroad and set David Pyles up to be killed by SWAT Team and take his guns,…who gave a damn about 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, or 14th Amendment rights?!!!? Not the NRA! Not the ACLU! Not the State of Oregon or federal Attorneys General! Not the FBI! Not one damn honest civil plaintiff attorney! David Pyles was the subject victim to unprecedented civil and criminal true conspiracy torts by City of Medford, Jackson County, and the State of Oregon!!! No one stood up when they came for David Pyles!

    Docket #40 in the above case is prima facia evidence of the defendants’ criminal cover up of the Oregon Revised Statute 426 (false, color of law) “peace officer mental health hold”! Several federal judges didn’t give a damn and assisted in sweeping the whole case under the rug! No one gave a damn to help David Pyles in 2010! WTFU sheeple!

    1. Huh, I see y’all got a new crazy when I was gone. I like him.

      1. I ain’t ever seen this one before! More people should end every sentence in exclamation points! It’s fun!

        1. I clicked his link! It’s to a reason article that I remember! From 2010! I can’t believe it’s been 8 years! And I can’t believe I remember it from 8 years ago! Your right; it is fun!

  32. Duh, I don likez duh Trump, but hez better than duh Demokkkratx like crazy lady Pocahontas. Duh Democrats are duh tax and spendz. Look at how the Barackd Obama from Kenya turned duh country into Venezuelaz. Duh.

  33. We’ll see what happens five minutes from now, because this is Trump after all. However, it was easy to predict that there were going to be times when the man who turns on anyone if it will benefit him in the slightest, and sometimes just because of his mood, was going to turn on his supporters. And when they criticize him, he’s likely to lash out just like he does at anyone else who criticizes him. In most ways, it’s pretty standard politics anymore, and bad form to act surprised when it happens.

  34. “”Look at how the Barackd Obama from Kenya turned duh country into Venezuelaz. Duh.””

    Actually you make a good point. Albeit not the one you think. Republicans et al, talked a lot of crap about what Obama was going to do, and they were wrong. The Dems et al, are talking a lot of crap about Trump, and they will be wrong. Because no one can see the future.

    1. I knew you were going to say that.

      1. I knew you were going to pull that joke.

  35. Apparently he moderated his statement today.

    1. “Gun free zones are proven targets of killers. ”

      I’m sure Hillary would have said the same thing.

    2. He had to have someone inform him what side he was on. His natural inclinations as a New York lib sometimes betray him in embarrassing ways.

      1. He’s getting lefty gun grabber donations to his campaign.

        Its great! Trump is literally going to use lefty money to get reelected.

  36. What exactly did people expect? It’s Donald Trump. About the only things he’s consistently been for his entire life aside from a tasteless scam artist is a standard issue new york city liberal. Why anyone believed for two seconds that he was suddenly a conservative on any issue is beyond me.

  37. I do not hate saying this one little bit but Drumpf supporters, ‘I told you so’!
    How is your two party dictatorship working for you now America!

  38. If he’s not gaming Democrats and being gamed by them (they won’t turn pro-Trump no matter what he does), I wonder if the NRA will finally figure out they don’t have to be the National Republican Association and should stop endorsing former gun banners because they’re willing to say they’re less of a gun banner than they used to be and start telling people to vote Libertarian?

    1. And maybe unicorn farts will become a major source of clean fuel.

    2. Because the NRA’s political strategy is to encourage incumbents and other candidates who have a chance to win the election to be pro-gun, not the other way around. If the incumbent in an election is decent on gun rights they will endorse them regardless of party and regardless of how good the challenger is. They used to endorse a lot of Democrats, but pro-gun Democrats are nearly extinct thanks to their party’s turn left.

      You can’t really argue with the strategy — it’s paid enormous dividends for gun rights. Sometimes I don’t think people appreciate how close we came to Brit/Aussie style gun bans in the 1980s and 1990s.

  39. Very disappointed in The Donald.

    From The Donald’s Cold Dead Hands

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p81jm0uTMWU

    From My Cold Dead Hands

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ju4Gla2odw

  40. Too soon to get excited. Read ,T’he Art of the Deal’; Trump has a way of weaving those against him into his web to get what he wants. He may be working a way to get the Dems two fully support the 2nd, only to have them not get what they thought they would get in the end. Remember, he always works 10 steps ahead of others; when they find they received the short straw, it’s too late.

    1. Trump has a way of weaving those against him into his web to get what he wants.

      Like ending DACA and implementing the travel ban? Like having Mueller still free to harass and threaten anybody who works for Trump? Like repealing Obamacare?

    2. Couple problems. Trump didn’t write The Art of the Deal, and he doesn’t read.

      1. Tony cannot come to grips with Trump trolling lefties, the lefties are giving him money for gun control, and then trump will not support gun control.

  41. To be sure, Trump also called himself “a big fan of the NRA” and “the biggest fan of the Second Amendment.”

    Then again, he also called himself a Republican… but one suspects that was not until sometime after he decided to run for office.

    1. As the article notes Trump was a registered Democrat until he registered Republican in 2012.

  42. War: Trump’s Tweet and CNN Townhall
    Trump is a New York Leftist who supported gun control over the years!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smwn9n6EiMg

  43. Trump usually tweets the opinion of the last person he talked to or the last TV show (usually Fox News) he watched. This is no big deal and he will reverse himself before the NRA can say two words.

  44. Shorter: Trump the self-proclaimed “principled conservative” takes the opportunity to reveal himself as the pathetic, opportunistic liberal he has always been. The left should be thrilled: by 2024 they may well have had their own man in the White House for 16 years.

  45. We shouldn’t be wedded to guns for the sake of gun sales, but rather because the 2A is a part of a bargain between the people and the govt that created our Republic. Those wanting to change the deal have an obligation to offer something in return.

    The statists do make a few good points. No matter how many AR-15s we might own in the basement, today we’re still be massively outgunned by this government (not so in 1789). However, the fact that the govt knows enough of us are armed at a level to at least put up a fight is a part of the balance of power between the people and the govt. And so the 2A still has value in the balance of power, and shouldn’t be given away for nada.

    There would no doubt be at least some benefits to reducing the number of AR-15s and other high-velocity, large clip semi-automatics circulating in society, and libertarians shouldn’t act like there are none. If coupled with sensible mental health provisions and better performing law enforcement, I’m sure some reduction in the accessibility of those type weapons would save some lives. But for me, such benefits wouldn’t be worth the “trade” if the “trade” is just a one-way give-up.

    I’m still waiting for the statists to offer up a trade. For example, if Pelosi and Schumer proposed two simultaneous amendments to the Constitution, one that watered down somewhat the 2A, and the other that bolstered significantly the 10A, well, then we’d have something to discuss. Until then, I say no wavering on the 2A.

    1. “There would no doubt be at least some benefits to reducing the number of AR-15s and other high-velocity, large clip semi-automatics circulating in society, and libertarians shouldn’t act like there are none.”

      See, the problem is that we dislike being told what makes sense by people who clearly don’t even understand the issue they choose to voice oh-so-important opinions on.

      1. Bullet velocity is irrelevant for close-quarters shooting of unarmed victims.

      2. AR-15s aren’t fed by clips.

      3. The size of a magazine is dependent solely on the magazine, not the gun which uses it. AR-15s can utilize 5 round magazines, and Glocks can utilize 50-round magazines. More importantly, a magazine is a hollow box with a spring. They can easily be 3d printed, for example.

      None of this works the way you obviously think it does.

      1. 1. Bullet velocity is relevant to responders. A responder with a pistol, like a Glock, is outgunned by an AR-15. Distance, accuracy, clip…oops…magazine…
        2. Clip, schmidt, magazine, blagazine. You know that people use clip and magazine interchangeably. Inaccurately, yes, but with no loss in comprehension. You knew what he meant.
        3. Yes, it’s the magazine size. The only gun I own is a 16 gauge shotgun, and back when I hunted I was allowed only three cartridges loaded at one time. So would you have a problem if no magazine could hold more than 3 rounds? Yes, someone can make a larger one, but he wouldn’t be able to walk into the local sporting gun store and get a magazine that could hold more than 3 rounds. You shouldn’t have a problem with that…

        There’s this forest but you only see the trees…

      2. Thanks for schooling me on the nomenclature of clips vs. magazines.

        You are a gun person. I am a liberty person. Our Venn diagrams might overlap in places, but they obviously aren’t the same. My point, which you deliberately choose to miss, is that the Second Amendment is an incredibly important facet of the grand bargain which formed our Republic, and that while we should be open to legitimate trades which restore power to the people net-net, any unilateral give-up of individual liberty is unthinkable.

        You “gun people” need to be cultivating allies, not looking for people to piss off. Lord knows y’all do it enough.

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