Another Deadly Amtrak Crash, Dems Plan Their Own Memo, Philadelphia Eagles Win Super Bowl: A.M. Links

• 

  Anthony Behar/Sipa USA/Newscom

  At least two people are dead after an Amtrak crash caused by the train, bound for Miami, being on the wrong track.

• Democrats are planning their own memo on surveillance of the Donald Trump campaign.
• The Defense Ministry of China complained a new outline of U.S. nuclear weapons policy represented a "cold war mentality."
• Israel sent out the first wave of deportation notices to about 20,000 African asylum seekers.
• A man in North Carolina and his 20-year-old daughter were arrested on incest charges after allegedly having a child together.
• The Philadelphia Eagles won their first Super Bowl.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Philadelphia Eagles won their first Super Bowl.

If the end result is that Philadelphia burns itself to the ground, it's all worth it.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Someone was not celebrating last night, it seems.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The important thing for everyone to remember is that the Flyers suck.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

Fly Eagles Fly!

Love it.

[creech]

The suburbs sounded like "shock and awe." Couple broken windows in the City. Police report that murders and rapes were actually down from a typical Sunday night. Will the return of Wentz next season be the start of a new dynasty?

[DJK]

Regression to the mean seems far more likely. Wentz was historically great on third downs and thoroughly mediocre on first and second downs. There have been precisely zero quarterbacks in the history of the NFL who have maintained that for more than a year. Moreover, much of Wentz's game was due to his mobility and we have no idea whether that will be the same after an ACL tear. Finally, NFL Defensive Coordinators will have a full offseason to review film on him (and Foles). Given all that, it's far more likely that the Eagles caught lightning in a bottle for a season and will be above average, but not elite, next season.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A man in North Carolina and his 20-year-old daughter were arrested on incest charges after allegedly having a child together.

Well looks like West Virginia has a comer.

[Drave Robber]

Amtrak crash

Another proof Trump's no Mussolini.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Patience, kemosabe. There's still time for Trump to nationalize the trains. Oh, wait.

[Citizen X - #6]

KEEP YER GUBMINT HANDS OFF MUH AMTRAK

[Bee Tagger]

The Defense Ministry of China complained a new outline of U.S. nuclear weapons policy represented a "cold war mentality."

Yeah, well i think this represents a hot take mentality.

[Bee Tagger]

Democrats are planning their own memo on surveillance of the Donald Trump campaign.

The existence of Trump continues to cause people to do dumb things

[Drave Robber]

Do memes trump memos?

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Are Trump memos memes?

[Rhywun]

Are we ourselves?

[Leader Desslok]

All your memos are belong to us.

[Citizen X - #6]

Are we not men?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It's only been a year and Trump's already forcing the Democrats to be more transparent with their documents than they ever were under Obama.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Defense Ministry of China complained a new outline of U.S. nuclear weapons policy represented a "cold war mentality."

Who slipped them our policy outline???

[Leader Desslok]

Why not? That's how the Democrats seem to feel about Russia.

[Citizen X - #6]

At least two people are dead after an Amtrak crash caused by the train, bound for Miami, being on the wrong track.

That doesn't seem like it should be possible.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

The wave function of the train collapsed onto the wrong track.

[Citizen X - #6]

Well, just as long as no congressmen were mildly inconvenienced.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Maybe the train that crashed first was time entangled with the second train that crashed.

My head hurts.

[Leader Desslok]

Am I a bad person if I care more about the CSX train, since I'm a shareholder, than the Amtrak train?

[Cy]

Some one left a switch open to a siding in dark territory. Amtrak got their track warrant and didn't know about the open switch. There were no signals or electronics monitoring the tracks. It's most likely a completely non-electronic system of authority out there.

In other words, a private corporation refused to upgrade their track to CTC (modern signal systems) because of their bottom line and now people are dead. If anyone is wondering, there are still thousands of miles of mainline track in the US that trains traverse every day with no signal equipment.

Again, CTC (signaled and electronically monitored rail and switches) has been out for over 100 years. The only reason that there is any dark territory still out there as main line track, is because railroads don't want to fork out the money to upgrade the system.

This mostly rides on the litigation side of railroads. If an incident happens, railroad companies get a pass because they can put all of the blame on a conductor, engineer, signalman, maintenance or dispatcher. EVERY single time. When the trains make money, it's managements fault. When trains collide or accidents happen? It's labors fault. That's the way it's been for almost 100 years.

[creech]

Nice sarc.

[Cy]

Which part did you not understand?

[creech]

I believe the NSTB will discover that the train crew that backed the freight into the siding left the switch open and reported to the dispatcher that it was closed. Human error. That part of the railroad is equipped with CTC but the signal system was down and was being operated by dark territory rules. You might want to look into some of the reasons why PTC has taken longer and is more expensive than the genuises in Congress allowed.

[Cy]

I'm not talking PTC. I'm talking CTC. Both systems would've prevented this, but CTC is a lot simpler and not AS safe but a hell of a lot better than dark territory.

I like how you make it the conductor's fault, again, not the companies. It may come back as the Dispatchers too account of someone changing the switch status improperly.

Why the hell was an AMTK anywhere near dark territory to begin with? Let alone one with passengers on it?

Why was the CTC suspended? Was it one of the Hunter Harris cost cutting territories and the FRA signed off on it?!!?

[SusanM]

It was Kip Chalmers.

[creech]

Having worked as a Trainman, I'm familiar with FRA rules. The crew that parked the freight train on the switch was required to call the dispatcher and tell him/her that the freight was in the siding and clear. You don't call the dispatcher until you've re-lined the switch and locked it for the main line. NTSB will find out the truth. I suspect the crew forgot and called the dispatcher prematurely.

[Cy]

That doesn't take away from the fact that it shouldn't be dark territory to begin with. This is the exact problem I'm siting early. There's no good reason any AMTK train should be operating in dark territory or that any trains period should be making meets in dark territory.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Democrats are planning their own memo on surveillance of the Donald Trump campaign.

Will it also threaten the credibility of one of our cherished institutions and thus the country itself?

[Citizen X - #6]

Duh.

[Citizen X - #6]

In case it's not clear, that cherished institution is Celebrity Apprentice.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

While we wait for Crusty to show up:

North Carolina man, but the incest happened in Virginia.

[Citizen X - #6]

Dude, you reposted one of the official Links. That is a Links Foul. Fist, what's his punishment?

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Lol. I am not quite awake yet, it seems.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

Make him read a Britches article without punctuation.

[Fist of Etiquette]

An official rebuke will be placed on his permanent record.

[Fist of Etiquette]

And, yes, it will be in all caps.

[Aloysious]

Make Hihn write it. In his usual... ... style.

[Citizen X - #6]

[snicker]

[AlgerHiss]

These Amtrak train wrecks...get rid of the union people operating these trains and things will get much safer quickly.

Organized labor is made of the most ignorant and lazy among us

[Cy]

You have no idea how ignorant that statement is. If not for Unions workers on railroads, the fatalities per year would be much higher. If there weren't a co-op legal effort to defend the right to tell supervisors 'no' when they're coercing labor to do things unsafe/illegal than the incidents would be MUCH higher.

[Juice]

The railroad companies WANT their trains to crash. Isn't it obvious?

[Cy]

99 times out of 100 when you go right, you look like a genius to your superiors and cost the company less money. 1 out of 100 times it may cause a slight wreck or even a derailment or fatality that you can make the fault of someone else. Which do you choose?

[Griffin3]

Because organized unions have kept the WMATA (DC Metro) and MARTA (Atlanta) so safe. They have never had employees systematically shirking work until the undone maintenance killed or inju... oh, wait. Sorry.

[Cy]

Both of those are government unions. If you want to have a conversation about private for profit company labor unions vs public not for profit labor unions, it's a much different discussion. The fault of the CSX incident involves private for profit labor unions. Who I might add have been treated extremely poorly lately.

[BYODB]

I'm curious, if someone works for AMTRAK why are they not a government union? Isn't AMTRAK a government rail line?

[Cy]

AMTK doesn't own a lot of rail. They own the engines and the cars and (forcibly in most cases) pay private for profit railroads to use their lines, usually with a pay structure for on-time performance. Those for profit railroads are freight railroads. Most of the engines that AMTK owns can go comfortably over 100mph. But because they mostly run on rail getting the crap kicked out of it by freight, grain and coal loads and the requirements of upgrading to run a train on that speed of rail infrastructure, they usually can't go faster than 79mph and more often than not average around 50mph while weaving through freight traffic, adhering to speed restrictions for curves and grades or in the some cases they just put them in behind the freight trains and don't 'make' any of the AMTK trains on time to for go having to delay their own traffic to run them.

The AMTK workers are government union workers, but the reason for the crash can be laid at the feet of the for-profit railroad and their union workers who do work under pressures to maintain a profit. In some cases those can be pretty extreme pressures.

Things like suspending CTC would be unheard of in a Public Not for profit Railroad environment and in the cases I know of, the passengers are bussed and the equipment is ran crew only through such a safety hazard.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

I smell a new law brewing:

Girl Scout sells hundreds of cookie boxes outside weed dispensary.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

All weed shops need to help the community by allowing girl scouts to sell their cookies out front?

[BYODB]

That would be my takeaway lesson, personally. This girl will go far in life.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Harley-Davidson shutting down Kansas City plant with 800 jobs, CEO blames Trump

This week, however, Harley-Davidson announced the closure of a plant in Kansas City that will put 800 employees out of work.

And as Politico's Michael Grunwald writes, Harley-Davidson CEO Matthew Levatich has said that President Donald Trump's trade policies are partly to blame for this round of layoffs, as the company believes it would have benefited from the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal that Trump pulled out of at the start of his presidency.

"That would have helped us a lot," Levatich said of TPP.

MAGA!

https://goo.gl/fbJvsS

[lap83]

if you don't think that makes America greater, then you've never heard a Harley

[Rufus The Monocled]

I don't want to rile the Harley crowd because a) it's a great history and b) are beautiful bikes but whenever I hear one come down the street I'm annoyed. That sound is grating in a quiet neighbourhood.

And I sure do get a kick from watching well-to do people getting decked out including the little German helmets on their Harleys. My front door neighbour has a bike (not a Harley) but it makes a roaring sound that wakes up the street and he rides it maybe five times a year if he's lucky.

[BYODB]

Those loud pipes actually save lives, but your point is pretty valid as well. If my neighbor owned one I would be tempted to puncture their gas tank.

[Kivlor]

My neighbor and his 19yo son each have a crotch rocket, and personally I find the sound a lot more grating than a Harley. As BYODB pointed out, the loud sound is actually a safety precaution. I've gotten used to it, and I don't mind them coming and going most of the time, I just wish they wouldn't ride them from ~8:00pm till 8:00am, because I'm trying to get my kids to sleep, spend a tiny bit of time alone with the wife, and at some point I'm trying to sleep too.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Must be trying to get the "Easy Rider" customer base back.

[The Iconoclast]

Harley Davidson sales have been falling for years, as aficionados age out and younger people have not been attracted to them, or can't afford them or whatever.

[Cy]

Kind of like boats... it's amazing how nice of a boat you can buy for almost nothing now.

[Kivlor]

This was my thought. Why buy an expensive new one when you can get a pretty nice used one for a fifth the price.

[mad.casual]

Harley Davidson sales have been falling for years, as aficionados age out and younger people have not been attracted to them, or can't afford them or whatever.

Among their core demographic. Harley Davidson was never and is never going to sell overseas. I was a huge fan for the first 20-ish years of my life but the last decade to decade-and-a-half, the custom motorcycle culture completely displaced any semblance of; HD who went running in search of a consumer market that was already full of Hondas, Suzukis, Yamahas, BMWs, etc., etc. I mean, Jesus Christ, Polaris effectively resurrected the Indian brand right in Harley Davidson's back yard.

If they're blaming the TPP or the collapse thereof, it's probably for preventing them from selling the brand in the Asian market as much as actually moving material goods.

[loveconstitution1789]

Didn't the CEO announce that Harley was building electric motorcycles?

Sounds like the CEO doesn't know shit about his core customers and that caused his company to do shitty.

[Palin's Buttplug]

TPP would have eliminated the high export tariffs on Harley.

Your boy doesn't know shit about trade and his instincts are wrong (protectionist first)

[completely impervious]

"TPP would have eliminated the high export tariffs on Harley"

Which really wouldn't have helped sales at all, because the main barriers are related to high local taxes on larger motorcycles, low fuel economy, and difficulty in licensing the larger bikes because of special classes that are required for large displacement bikes.

The CEO is blaming Trump for something that he hasn't been able to fix for years, and he found a sucker to believe him.

[Palin's Buttplug]

The TPP prevents the "local tax" runaround in the form of ISDS.

That said HOG had pricing issues anyway.

[completely impervious]

"The TPP prevents the "local tax" runaround in the form of ISDS"

No actually, it doesn't. Most of the local taxes I'm referring to are related to licensing, fuel costs, and insurance, which TPP doesn't touch.

Sorry your narrative fell apart.

[completely impervious]

In addition, ISDS just shifts the cost from one place to another, when it can be used. The costs of legal challenges will, of course, be included in any goods sold.

[loveconstitution1789]

TPP is a trade agreement not free trade and it was not in America's best interests.

I know you mix stuff up because you are retarded. Remember though, ending a trade protectionist racket like TPP is allowing the USA more free trade.

[completely impervious]

He's touting an extra-legal arbitration system that is beyond the reach of US courts as free trade.

I can't even.

[loveconstitution1789]

At this stage, everything lefty Democrats are for, I am against.

Its just a default because everything major they do is bad for America. Everything. TPP, ObamaCare, try and get Hillary elected, etc.

[Leader Desslok]

At this stage, everything lefty Democrats are for, I am against.

Lefty Dems? Don't you mean any politician?

[Palin's Buttplug]

ISDS is superior as a trade dispute arbitration system.

Courts are shitty in comparison. The USA has never lost in ISDS.

[completely impervious]

Which really doesn't address my criticisms at all.

[completely impervious]

ISDS has many flaws as well.

Under many investment treaties, mere incorporation in a claimed "home" country is all that is needed to be considered an "investor" of that country, and benefit from whatever treaties it signed. For example, Australia and the U.S. have a trade agreement, but not with ISDS. Australia has an ISDS pact with Hong Kong however. Philip Morris was able to use its Hong Kong subsidiary to launch a claim against Australia ? something it could not have done directly from its U.S. headquarters.

[completely impervious]

Most investment treaties have more than one standard of protection for investors. Investors need not limit themselves to alleging one violation, such as rules on expropriation, non-discrimination or fair-and-equitable treatment. Instead, investors engage in what I call "standard stacking." This means they allege as many bases for protection as they can, to increase the odds that a tribunal will side with them on at least one, which is typically enough to be entitled to some cash damages.

[completely impervious]

Most-favored nation (MFN) rules in the investment treaties allow investors to claim the best procedural and substantive treatment contemplated in any of a host country's treaties. This is particularly useful where the treaty that the investor used as its vehicle is more state-friendly (say TPP, arguably) than others in the respondent's treaty portfolio. Arbitrators have allowed an Argentine investor to challenge Spain with rights from a Chile-Spain treaty, an Australian investor to challenge India with Kuwait-India rights, and a Russian investor to use Denmark-Mongolia rules. As arbitrator Charles Brower writes, arbitrators have been increasingly willing to entertain MFN-based claims.

[completely impervious]

Investors also have a choice of whether to launch the case at ICSID (a World Bank arbitration center with relatively better transparency), or at a private arbitral center with lower transparency requirements.
Finally, once a tribunal has rendered a ruling, the investor can seek enforcement in any country it estimates likeliest help secure payment (which might be driven by investor-friendly national arbitration laws or courts, or the presence of seizable assets).

[Ron]

even before Trump was elected H-D was talking about the glut of good used bikes on the market since the old timer wantabes couldn't ride anymore and the young kids don't want H-D's either. the sing was on the wall a few years ago for H-D, get young and hip or get out of the way.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

"Introducing Harley-Davidson's new line of mopeds!"

[JoeBlow123]

Japan has been running the shinkansen, their high speed bullet trains, for over 50 years. Wanna know how many crashes they have had? Zero. Zero crashes since they started operation. And they are always on time, arriving about every 10 minutes at big time stops like Tokyo, Osaka, and Kyoto.

Why? Because they Japanese and don't have fuck all lazy, retard Americans running it. They actually take pride and ownership in their work even if Japanese are perhaps a bit robotic and compliant to authority figures. I cannot fathom how there are so many crashes on a train going like 50 miles an hour on such an uncomplicated track in the USA.

[Cy]

The cost per mile for that railroad is STAGGERING. Also, they don't run freight over their rail because they're almost a completely water based freight hauling system. In other words, it's apples to oranges with the US rail system. It'd be more genuine to compare their high speed rail to our airports system. It's strictly passenger based movement and shares a very similar safety record.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I often see bus drivers with one hand all limp on the steering wheel and give the impression they hold the public in contempt.

It's not the most professional of groups.

[completely impervious]

"Wanna know how many crashes they have had? Zero."

Incorrect.

"Last Sunday, a Yamagata shinkansen bullet train collided with a passenger car killing the driver of that car. Dec 31, 2013"

[Rhywun]

I can vouch for the character of unionized American transit workers as described above, though.

[JoeBlow123]

Wow. I heard there was never any collisions on a documentary on Nova and even looked it up, never saw this. Did not even think it was possible since they separate the track from roads from Tokyo down to Osaka, but I guess in that area in connects. Nova probably caveated this as not a collision of shinkansen because, while it is on shinkansen gauge track, it is not run as fast as normal shinkansen. Not exactly wrong, only really correct in a lawyerly sense.

Thanks for sharing the info.

[BYODB]

Yes, because Japan as a nation is entirely comparable to a land-mass the size of the United States. This is totally logical because the length of the track obviously doesn't relate whatsoever to it's cost or opportunity for collision.

/sarc

[Rebel Scum]

The Philadelphia Eagles won their first Super Bowl.

Watched the game. It was good.The commercials were seriously lacking. They were generally dull. And there were way too many that contained an uncomfortable amount of leftists virtue signalling while not actually hyping the product/service that the company produces. And the half-time show...meh.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I played with my kitten during the half time. He was extra playful at that time. I do enjoy when he play bites and leaps thinking he's in the jungle pretending he's a jaguar.

[Rebel Scum]

My kitten (6 mo. old) was glued to the screen for some reason. I guess all the movement and light. had to kick her ass off of the tv stand when she started pawing the screen.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Ha! My kitten does that too. Loves sitting on my speakers to my sound system or the TV. Only he sits and stares at US.

Must be wondering 'if only you knew what I could do to you if I were bigger'.

My kitten also loses his mind when I'm in a robe. He viciously attacks. Ears bent. The whole kit.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

Here's what Citizen X's cats did during the Superbowl.

[Rebel Scum]

Loves sitting on my speakers to my sound system or the TV.

Mine puts her head into my subwoofer air hole. (when it's not in use, of course.)

'if only you knew what I could do to you if I were bigger'.

It is known that cats are nazi's and they are plotting to kill you.

loses his mind when I'm in a robe

Mine is going through a phase where she attacks my feet and such under the covers. I have to kick her out of the bedroom at night. I have another cat (male, 4 yrs old) that I got when he was 1.5 yrs and he did the same thing for about a year. He's pretty chill now, but I guess I have a ways to go with the little one.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Lol. Same here. He loves going for the ankles.

[Ska]

My friend produced two of the spots and he clued me in to why they are like this now: the people behind all the marketing have concluded through their research that emotional attachment from tearjerker commercials is stronger than brand attachment from funny commercials. That's pretty much the driving factor behind the lame commercials.

[Rufus The Monocled]

So what you're saying is Old Spice is going to change strategy?

Nnoooooooo!

[Rebel Scum]

They tapped my nostalgia with the Jeep/Goldbloom commercial. I liked that one.

On the other hand, T-Mobile has assured that they will never have my business.

[Mike Laursen]

From what I could tell from the reaction of folks around me, the commercial with the adorable babies was the hands-down winner with the women in the audience.

[Rhywun]

Did you have the sound off?

[Mike Laursen]

Sorry, I don't understand your comment.

[Juice]

The game was awesome because the Pats were getting their asses handed to them left and right. What was crazy is how much the officials and the commentators were trying their best to support the Pats. Was it a touchdown? Oh, I don't know, he broke the plane of the goal line pretty clearly. Might not be a legit touchdown. He had two feet in, but the next step was out of bounds. Better deliberate over it for 10 minutes. Refs and commentators, those were obviously good touchdowns. Sorry your heroes lost.

[Rebel Scum]

how much the officials and the commentators were trying their best to support the Pats.

I noticed this as well.

[Rufus The Monocled]

EAGLES WIN!

There's a party in my pants and you're all invited!

[Citizen X - #6]

[vomits]

[Rufus The Monocled]

Itsokay. There, there.

Let your stomach settle and you'll be good to go.

[Chipper Morning Baculum]

[hangs a PLEASE USE BACK ENTRANCE sign on Rufus' tent pole]

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Israel sent out the first wave of deportation notices to about 20,000 African asylum seekers.

Once again I'd like to clarify my name should be OpenBorders(4USA)Liberal-tarian but the character limit won't allow it. Israel can do whatever it wants with African asylum seekers, and it's anti-Semitic to suggest otherwise.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Pro Ziob? You're no liberaltarian at all.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Here Comes A $1 Trillion ? Scratch That ? $2 Trillion U.S. Federal Deficit

IBD.

Markets spooked by huge US budget deficits and lack of Treasury buyers.

[loveconstitution1789]

Media nonsense.

Nothing like using your media outlets to try and rig the game.

I made 24% return on my 401k last year. As for this year, 4% return in January 2018 alone.

Yup, the market will correct and I will bet media outlets will lose more customers during that correction, which will make me even more money.

[Palin's Buttplug]

So deficits don't matter?

You are a true Republican, no question.

[loveconstitution1789]

You mean projected deficits?

See, Booosh ran up huge actual deficits and then Obama ran even higher actual deficits.

Besides, lefty socialists like deficits because its helps bring about economic collapse, so the revolution can begin.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Liar.

Or you're just stupid.

[loveconstitution1789]

Aw, poor Butt has lost this point too then resorts to "you're stupid".

Butt's a Liar liar, pant's on fire.

[Domestic Dissident]

Negro Nixon: $9.3 trillion of total debt in 8 years.
Trump: $550 billion of total in 1 year so far. That's bad, but so far still a pale imitation of Negro Nixon.

You've already been schooled on this a hundred times, dipshit. By all means keep making a fool out of yourself though.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Yes, Obama should have just shut down the federal government when he found that $1.2 trillion deficit the Bushpgs left.

Instead he just cut it down to $500 billion. And now its going to hit $2 trillion.

Idiiot.

[loveconstitution1789]

I know Butt. Its been really rough on you lately.

You have been really having to lie lately to protect Obama and other lefties.

[Zeb]

Well, Borat Osama isn't president anymore, so I'm going to worry about the 4-5 trillion in debt (assuming no new crisis to excuse even more spending) that Trump looks like running up now.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I wish we could all just agree to stop with the dumb fucking nicknames

[Domestic Dissident]

I agree that even half a trillion in debt a year is too much. Spending should be cut across the board.

My point is that Dipshit Dave Weigel continues to be a lying scumbag, and proving it is as easy as a simple little HTML query link to the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

[Kivlor]

As a solidly pro-Trump guy, I'm getting very frustrated and concerned with all of the budget hawks that are using the past bad decisions of Obama/Bush to justify Trump's plan to spend.

Of course, as a Trump supporter, I also pretty much swallowed the fact that he was not a budget hawk and that he campaigned on more spending. I supported him for other positions, and hoped the budget hawks would try to constrain him, instead of cheering and offering a blank check to buy whatever he wants in "infrastructure" spending.

[Leader Desslok]

pale imitation of Negro Nixon

Not sure if this was an intentional jab, but I'll give you a golf clap anyways.

[Fucksake]

Justin Timberlake for President isn't a bad idea.

[loveconstitution1789]

Cry Me a River.

[Rhywun]

If it stops him from making music, sure why not.

[Vernon Depner]

So, what's the official libertarian position on incest between consenting adults?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Its their business.

[loveconstitution1789]

Butt, is not a Libertarian.

On that note, government has not authority to dictate what relations adults have among themselves.

On a personal note, ew.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

You can stop at "consenting adults."

Oh, you did.

[Zeb]

Not a crime, doesn't need a law. Inbreeding is a concern, but social taboos really handle it just fine.

[BYODB]

The Muslim faith actually could have religious freedom grounds for overturning incest laws, if we're all being totally honest.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hey, Filthadelphia, thanks for assuring another year the Pittsburgh Steelers maintain the sole record for most Super Bowl wins. Suckers.

[Palin's Buttplug]

A right-wing extremist suspected in the shooting rampage that wounded six Africans in central Italy was "lucid and determined, aware of what he had done" and exhibited no remorse for his actions, an Italian law enforcement official said Sunday.

Italian authorities said they seized Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf," other publications linked to Nazism and a flag with a Celtic cross, a symbol commonly used by white supremacists, from Traini's home Sunday.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2.....-home.html

Hey LoveCons! OMG! Go Tell Fox News this NAZI is really a left-winger!!!!! they are like everyone else!

[loveconstitution1789]

In Italy, socialist Nazis are called Fascisti.

They don't have the racist flavor like lefty Nazis do but it still allows lefties to go after people they don't like for race reasons. Notice the socialist terms used today like social justice, fair wages, etc:

"Fascism establishes the real equality of individuals before the nation? the object of the regime in the economic field is to ensure higher social justice for the whole of the Italian people? What does social justice mean? It means work guaranteed, fair wages, decent homes, it means the possibility of continuous evolution and improvement. Nor is this enough. It means that the workers must enter more and more intimately into the productive process and share its necessary discipline? As the past century was the century of capitalist power, the twentieth century is the century of power and glory of labour."

"We declare war against socialism, not because it is socialism, but because it has opposed nationalism.... We intend to be an active minority, attract the proletariat away from the official Socialist party. But if the middle class thinks that we are going to be their lightning rods, they are mistaken. "

"The socialist revolution was a pure and simple question of 'force.'? Between the [bourgeoisie and the proletariat] no accord is possible. One must disappear. The weaker will be 'eliminated.' The class struggle is therefore a question of 'force.' "
-Benito Mussolini

[Palin's Buttplug]

Why is even FOX NEWS calling Nazis "right wing"?

Answer that, asswipe. No fucking smokescreen wanted.

[loveconstitution1789]

It was an AP news source, moron.

Aw poor Butt gets his daily fill of what the conservatives are doing from FOX and believes them...sometimes.

You lefty asswipes are so dumb.

[completely impervious]

Why are you citing Fox News like they're suddenly credible?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Why are you citing Fox News like they're suddenly credible?

Because the generally accepted definition of "right wing" includes all fascists and Nazis - yet morons here insist otherwise.

"Right-wing" = a preferred class, group, or race in society/government.

Left wing = equal or egalitarian.

Marxism is a disease of the left while fascism is a right wing disease.

[Sevo]

"Because the generally accepted definition of "right wing" includes all fascists and Nazis - yet morons here insist otherwise."

It's also 'generally accepted' that that lying piece of shit FDR was a great president. So what?
Fucking idiot...

[loveconstitution1789]

Fascists in Italy were/are socialist or "lefties".

"Because the generally accepted definition of "right wing" includes all fascists and Nazis - yet morons here insist otherwise."

No, lefties try and push this false narrative otherwise they would lose even more sheeple from their ranks.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

And authoritarianism is what? The glue that holds it all together? Nationalism v. Internationalism is the minor difference you are grasping for.

[completely impervious]

Because the generally accepted definition of "right wing" includes all fascists and Nazis - yet morons here insist otherwise

And this has what to do with Fox News suddenly being credible

Am I being trolled? I felt like the question was clear.

[Rhywun]

FFS I don't know why you all insist on arguing with a bad-faith troll.

[completely impervious]

I'm grumpy because the coffee maker is broken and I don't want to take it out on my employees.

Even though they broke the coffee maker...

[Kivlor]

In years past I always viewed Fascism as more of Franco's Spain, and in that regard, I have always viewed it definitely as "right wing".

Viewing it as Mussolini's Italy, or Hitler's Germany, I argue (as I mentioned last week) that Fascism / National Socialism really eschew the Left - Right paradigm in modern politics. These ideologies combine certain right wing political trends with left wing economic ones, making them a little unique. Kind of like how people like Hihn claim "Libertarianism isn't Left or Right Wing".

[JoeBlow123]

Debating whether Nazis are left wing or right wing... priceless.

[Zeb]

Dumbest argument ever.

[BestUsedCarSales]

The whole left/right debate is stupid

[Citizen X - #6]

It's all some of our commenters have the intellectual capacity to handle, though.

[Rebel Scum]

Italian authorities said they seized Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf,"

You can't read books as an intellectual exercise in Italy.

NAZI is really a left-winger!!!!!

The economic aspect of Nazism is socialism. Nazis are leftists.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Nazis are leftists.

Only you and a few other uneducated rubes here think that.

[Rebel Scum]

Did you miss this part?

The economic aspect of Nazism is socialism.

[loveconstitution1789]

Yet, it upsets you so much that people here are bringing up fact that Nazis and Fascisti were socialists.

Its almost as it you are the rube for believing socialist lies for decades.

[Cy]

"Only you and a few other uneducated rubes here think that."

Facts hurt...

[Scarecrow Repair & Chippering]

I sense PluggedButt's heart is not in his rants today. Few, tame, and no comebacks.

Is he a Patriots fan?

[completely impervious]

We are Socialists, enemies, mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, with its injustice in wages, with its immoral evaluation of individuals according to wealth and money instead of responsibility and achievement, and we are determined under all circumstances to abolish this system!

- Gregor Srrasser, as Quoted by Adolf Hitler

[Palin's Buttplug]

There is nothing "socialist" about Aryan Supremacy, you idiot.

The right owns all the racists and white supremacists/nationalists and everyone knows it.

right wing = PREFERRED RACE, CLASS or GROUP..

a few dumbasses on this board does not change the world narrative.

[completely impervious]

There is nothing "socialist" about Aryan Supremacy, you idiot.

He's actually arguing with a quote from 2 Aryans, saying otherwise.

Fantastic.

[Sevo]

"right wing = PREFERRED RACE, CLASS or GROUP.."
Joe Stalin would like a word with you...
Do you come here to prove how stupid a human can be or is that purely accidental on your part?

[completely impervious]

"We actually are totally Socialist" - 2 Aryans in leadership positions

"Nope! Idiot!" - Palin's Buttplug

[CatoTheChipper]

So would Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao, the Kim family, Gus Hall, and Bernie Sanders.

Class struggle is the essence of all varieties of Marxism, which holds an extremely high preference for the class it calls the proletariat.

[Scarecrow Repair & Chippering]

This explains Stalin's fascination with Jews. He was a closet Nazi!

[Sevo]

After exhaustive review, here's the differences between Stalin and Hitler:
1) Stalin didn't start a world war
2) Stalin may have killed fewer Jews, but we're not certain.

[Scarecrow Repair & Chippering]

I beg to differ on #1. (a) Hitler probably would not have invaded Poland had the Russians not signed the pact on Aug 22nd. (b) Stalin invaded Poland from the east just two weeks later; which was forgotten in June 1941 when Hiter invaded the USSR.

[completely impervious]

Stalin had a better moustache.

[Zeb]

One thing that always amazes me is that it is (rightly) socially unacceptable to express sympathy with Nazis or to identify as one. Yet somehow it is socially acceptable to identify as a Marxist or Communist and to have sympathy for the communist monsters that murdered probably 100s of millions in the 20th century.

[Rebel Scum]

There is nothing "socialist" about Aryan Supremacy, you idiot.

Correct. That, alone, is a position of belief of racial superiority for a certain group not tied to an economic or political system. But we are talking Nazi's, i.e. "National Socialists". Nazi's are leftist, nationalist, racial supremacists. Deal with it.

[Zeb]

Left and right are pretty much the vaguest political labels we have. It seems to me that their meanings only exist in a particular context. Left and right are two sides within a particular political system. As such, they don't have universal meanings. In Germany in the 30s the communists were the left and the Nazis the right. Because they were the two big factions.

Nazis were socialists and they were violent authoritarian nationalists. How about just call them those things and stop worrying about whether they belong to the left or the right. Fuck the left and the right.

[Rebel Scum]

The only way a left/right paradigm works is if they are actually in opposition. To me, extreme left to totalitarian and extreme right is anarchy. In between you have fascism/communism/socialism all close together and roughly the same, then you move to minarchism and anarchism.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

To me

Right, that's the problem.

[Kivlor]

^^^ This is a healthier way to look at the discussion. Especially since it always slides into "You're a Nazi!" "Nuh-uh! You're a Nazi" in about 10 seconds. No one is interested in having the intellectual discussion of "Well, let's try to weigh their policies and positions, and see who lands where.

Plus, Left and Right are on a spectrum. One thing may be "Left" wing, but would appear "Right" wing to those farther left on the spectrum, or vice versa. Which means unless you're capable of looking at it in a meta sort of way then you're not really going to be able to evaluate it at all.

[Rebel Scum]

Democrats are planning their own memo on surveillance of the Donald Trump campaign.

Have they even disputed the contents of the Nunes memo?

[loveconstitution1789]

Nothing says desperation like Democrats "creating" their own memo.

Trump's "n"th D chess move and lefties fell for it.

Democrats are going to take such a shellacking election 2018.

[Kivlor]

They haven't disputed anything directly. Just a lot of vague "That's not the memo that we approved, it's had parts left out!" Without any expounding on what was edited out. Nunes has replied that the only parts removed were the parts that the Democrats and the FBI actually requested that the GOP redact before release.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Neo-Nazi will be GOP nominee for Congress in Illinois.

https://goo.gl/QdKzb1

[Juice]

something something Illinois nazis

[loveconstitution1789]

Lefties trying to blame anyone but lefties for how Illinois turned out. Hahaha.

[Rhywun]

Yawn. He's running in a district that a Democrat who eats lives babies on television would still win in a landslide.

[Sevo]

"The Philadelphia Eagles won their first Super Bowl."
Can we flag the ref to delay of game while he was trying to figure out a way to deny Ertz TD?

[Domestic Dissident]

A story that is getting very little attention from the JournoList is that Judge Rudolph Contreras was recused from the Michael Flynn case, and we don't know why.

There has been speculation that Contreras may have been the judge who approved Negro Nixon's wiretaps, but that hasn't been confirmed yet.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Your Nunes memo turned out to be a worthless wad of shit.

And you believed Hamhead Hannity?

[loveconstitution1789]

Butt, do you have any time in your day to take in lefty media nonsense from CNN, NBC, and WaPO when you are taking in so much FOX?

The fact that lefties are so upset about the Nunes memo gives us all the insight we need that the memo has more fact than the left wants. Even better is that Trump is unstoppable in releasing deep state docs that hurt lefties. There is more to come and the lefties know this. Just in time for election 2018.

[CatoTheChipper]

At the very least, the Nunes memo shows us the low hurdle that it takes to get a FISA warrant to wiretap a US citizen. It really is appalling ... all one has to do is pay off a legal firm to hire an oppo research firm to hire a foreign agent to write an "unverified and salacious" semi-literate "dossier". Then have oppo research "leak" to friendly media and cite the media reporting as confirmation of the so-called dossier.

If Trump pulled a stunt like this for political advantage, it would get 24-7 coverage and serious, bipartisan calls for impeachment ... and justifiably so.

[completely impervious]

Your Nunes memo turned out to be a worthless wad of shit.

Not everyone agrees.

Democrats are planning their own memo on surveillance of the Donald Trump campaign.

Democrats, for example.

[CatoTheChipper]

"Your Nunes memo turned out to be a worthless wad of shit."

So, why did the Democrats have a conniption fit over its declassification?

It really didn't reveal anything at all significant about sources or methods. And it really didn't reveal much new at all: it just confirmed that certain key individuals in the FBI and Justice hate Trump and are actively trying to undermine his presidency. But we already knew that. Various Republicans oversold the Nunes memo; it really doesn't add much new information.

[loveconstitution1789]

Interesting. Judges can recuse themselves or be recused by order of more senior judges.

Looks like Judge Contreras was recused by another judge's order. To be fair, many judges refuse to recuse themselves out of some fantasy that the role cannot be filled by another judge who doesn't have some conflict of interest.

[Domestic Dissident]

Yep. And it's not very common for judges to be involuntarily recused like that.

You would think some intrepid reporters would be interested to try and find out exactly what information came out between December 2 and December 7 that caused that to happen, and why the court is keeping that information a secret. This sounds like the kind of thing that could potentially jeopardize Mueller's entire case. More rotten fruit is falling off that poisoned tree by the day.

[Rhywun]

I loathed every second of every commercial that I wasn't quick enough on the remote to mute, but this take has me wondering if I was watching game from a different year by mistake or something:

Odell and Eli highlight Super Bowl's politics-free ad slate

[Stormy Dragon]

Meanwhile, in Philadelphia: a play in three acts. pic.twitter.com/e9ibHKwL1M

? Kurt

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

You have thirty minutes to move your cube.

[Ron]

Democrats are planning their own memo on surveillance of the Donald Trump campaign.

here's how the democrat memo will read

"Poopy head Trump is a big orange meanie and should be impeached"

[Eidde]

Let's not go Russian to conclusions.

[68W58]

Please ignore all the corrupt crap we have done up to now so that this particular corrupt crap will not be seen in context.

[Tony]

We are constantly told how impeachment is a political action rather than a legal one.

So, he's a giant orange disaster. Why not impeach, if only to save America the embarrassment?

You can't possibly think this is going well.

[Kivlor]

"We are constantly told how impeachment is a political action rather than a legal one....Why not impeach"

Some people oppose the idea of devolving our society into the late stages of the Roman Empire any faster than we have to. That's what you're advocating for Tony. The end of the Republic. If this is done without any guise of illegal or wrong behavior, but merely "My Team lost the Election, so we'll just overthrow the election because we have the power to do so. Might Makes Right" it will not be unlikely to result in endless revolution, mass starvation, tremendous calamity and the ultimate breakup of the Empire.

"The Pretorian Guard can kill the Emperor and pick a new one at any time. Why not just change Emperors every time we don't like one?"

[Tony]

Oh there will be plenty of illegality uncovered. Don't worry about that.

[Kivlor]

That is yet to be seen. You're arguing to drop any pretense of such things, and to just say "We don't like who you elected, America. We're replacing him." I offered you a reason why not to do that. Do you still think it's a good idea, if so, why?

[BYODB]

That moment when someone who claims to be 'for democracy' accidentally reveals that they're really in favor of authoritarianism with a thin veneer of unearned legitimacy.

[Kivlor]

Yup. I think a large portion of America would openly view such a move as the full-on authoritarian power-grab that it would be, so we should expect violence and insurrection.

Tony probably thinks his side will win. And there's reason for it. His "side" outnumbers mine by a couple million fanatics. They are heavily concentrated in metros making it easy to mob up, seize control, and start dragging those pesky right-wingers out of their homes and lynching them and their children.

He's mistaken. It won't go nearly that well for anyone.

[Sevo]

"Why not impeach, if only to save America the embarrassment?"

Please go die in a fire someplace, you slimy piece of arrogant shit.

[Kivlor]

It is pretty horrifying to see people calling for the overturning of elections simply because their team lost and dropping all pretense otherwise. "He says things that I don't like so we must overturn the election."

Of course, I'm not sure such antics would end the way that people like Tony want even if the R's and D's in Congress to come together in their hatred for Trump, and straight up vote to remove him tomorrow.