Taxes

Democrats Are Fooling Themselves About Tax Reform's Unpopularity

There will always be arguments about the efficacy of tax cuts for corporations and the rich, but at some point people find out that they get one, too.

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According to political analysts, 2018 Democrats will use the just-passed tax reform as a way to argue that the Republican Party is the party of the plutocracy, which is another way of saying that Democrats are going to use the same argument they've been using for the past three decades with varying degrees of success. A number of liberals have claimed that the passage of "unpopular" tax reform is historically analogous to the passage of Obamacare, which triggered the loss of hundreds of Democrat seats and, perhaps, control of the presidency.

This is wishful thinking for a number of reasons.

Yes, the tax bill is unpopular. Then again, I'm not sure you've noticed that everything Washington, D.C., tries to do is unpopular. Nothing polls well. Not the president. Not Congress. Not Democrats. Not legislation. Not even erstwhile popular vote-winning candidates. Certainly, a bill being bombarded with hysterical end-of-the-world claims that are rarely debunked by the political media is not going to be popular. Republicans won't pass anything if they wait around for things to be popular.

However—apologies to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi—they can be somewhat content knowing that voters will probably like it once they find out what's in it.

Why do so many Americans believe that the middle class is getting a tax hike? Because outlets they trust are constantly lying to them. Both in framing and content, the coverage of the tax cuts has been impressively dishonest. "One-Third of Middle Class Families Could End up Paying More Under the GOP Tax Plan" writes Time Money (they won't). An Associated Press headline reads, "House Passes First Rewrite of Nation's Tax Laws in Three Decades, Providing Steep Tax Cuts for Businesses, the Wealthy." And so on.

There will always be ideological arguments regarding the efficacy of tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy, but at some point people are going to find out that they've gotten one, too. The nonpartisan liberals at the Tax Policy Center concede that 80 percent of Americans will see a tax cut in 2018, and that the average cut will be $2,140—which might be something to scoff at in D.C., but I imagine a bunch of voters surprised by these savings will be less cynical. Only 4.8 percent of Americans will see a tax increase.

Like Obamacare, people don't know what's in the bill. But unlike Obamacare, the repeal of the individual insurance mandate gives millions a choice. The passage of Obamacare, after all, upended lives. The Affordable Care Act became synonymous with "health care insurance," and voters attributed everything that went wrong with that insurance to the bill. And since Democrats offered a litany of fantastical promises about the future of health care, the disapproval was well-deserved. Millions began seeing their insurance plans discontinued as soon as Obamacare was implemented, despite assurances from the president and pliant Democrats that no such thing would happen. For many, premiums in the individual markets doubled over four years of Obamacare. Voters dealt with these tangible, real-life consequences.

Whatever valid concerns there are about debt or spending (and they are valid), it is unlikely that tax cuts will have similar long-term consequences on voting as those on health care. It is more likely that tax cuts will do little to change the dynamics of the coming years. But it is plausible that because of the overreaction from the left, millions of Americans who thought they were going pay more in taxes will find a new child credit and be thankful.
As an ideological matter, every time a Democrat claims that keeping more of your own money is tantamount to "stealing"—which happens often—voters should remember this is fundamentally a debate between people who believe the state should have first dibs on your property and people who don't. The only way to frame the bill as a tax hike is by using the 2025 expiration of individual rate cuts. And the only way they won't be extended is if Democrats decide to raise taxes again. These are debates Republicans should embrace.

That's not to say tax reform is a panacea for Republicans. It's far from it. Historically speaking, the party in power will likely lose a bunch of seats in the 2018 midterms. But the claim, as Democrats are sure to make, that those losses are unique or tied to the toxicity of an agenda item—particularly a tax cut, which is generally popular among Americans (when they know it exists)—is far-fetched.

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241 responses to “Democrats Are Fooling Themselves About Tax Reform's Unpopularity

  1. I wouldn’t be so sure that people will notice the tax cuts. The Obama stimulus included a middle-class tax cut that benefited 5-digit earners (the vast majority of the country) to a greater extent than this bill and yet almost none of them noticed (see here for some discussion: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org…..s-tax-cuts). When I say “almost none,” I mean less than 10% of them in the first year of implementation. A few years later, if memory serves me correctly, polling found more than 10% but fewer than 20% knew they’d received a tax cut.

    1. The Obama stimulus included a middle-class tax cut that benefited 5-digit earners (the vast majority of the country) to a greater extent than this bill

      That’s even more bullshit than Trump.
      And how many look to the New York Times for intelligent analysis on taxes? (Only the link is Tax Policy Center)
      Meanwhile, even low information voters know the Obama stimulus failed because people paid down their debts and hunkered down, because they feared for their jobs — very widely reported at the time. Check the date at the Tax Policy Center — way too early, and eventually supplanted by actual reality.

      People paid down their debt — without knowing they had a tax cut? That’s a LOT of counterfeiting!
      And BENGHAZI!

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    2. They’ll notice, but probably not until April 2019 when their refunds are 2K higher than they expected. Might not help Repubs in Nov 2018.

      1. Maybe. It depends on whether and how employers adjust withholding. And then will people notice?

        You are right that the real data won’t be available until April 2019 when they see they don’t have to pay a penaltax. And they might see a comparison by TurboTax between 2018 and 2017 taxes. Who knows?

        1. If people’s paychecks get the withholding adjusted, people will definitely notice.

          1. I have direct deposit and never see what I’m getting. I probably wouldn’t notice until I have a check bounce.

            1. Seems like a good strategy.

        2. I’m certainly no expert, but from what I’ve been reading, the IRS (not employers!) will be adjusting withholding amounts, and people should see their take-home pay increase in February.

          1. Employers calculate and write pay checks.
            And employees calculate their deductions (if they choose)

            1. The emoyer calculation is based on IRS tables in Publication 15 which is published every January. The paychecks will be higher come Feb ’18.

              1. “The employees calculate their own deductions (if they choose)”

      2. That’s what I was thinking. They won’t see those tax reductions on a tax form or in their refund until after the election. I’d think most should see reduced payroll taxes, though, but how many will notice that?

    3. The Obama stimulus included a middle-class tax cut that benefited 5-digit earners (the vast majority of the country) to a greater extent than this bill and yet almost none of them noticed

      Because you’re not accurately describing what really happened. What really happened is that the rate cuts that were passed in the Bush administration were initially supposed to automatically sunset in the year 2010, but then Obama eventually agreed to make them permanent for everyone except the very highest earners (I think the threshold was set around $400,000 or something close to that).

      So the reason why almost nobody noticed Obama’s “tax cuts” as you describe them is because almost everyone’s rates actually stayed the same instead of going back up again like they were originally supposed to.

      1. The renewals are different tax cuts one year after tax cuts in the “stimulus” package.
        Plus the Bush renewal added middle-class tax cuts to replace the lost cuts for higher incomes. 85% of the Bush renewal cuts went to households under $200,000 AGI, who had been paying only 45% of the tax. That’s also why it failed, Kennedy’s. copied by Reagan, were, in Kennedy’s words, “across the board. top to bottom, personal and corporate.” That’s why it’s bullshit to say they were supply side. Bottom-line, Kennedy’s and Reagan’s were followed by the ONLY peacetime booms since the 1920s — still the only post WWII booms.

        Bush’s (originals) and Obama’s both failed because they were tilted (in opposite directions) instead of across the board — which is why Trump’s will likely fail. Kennedy and Reagan won because a growing economy requires confidence by all three players — employees/consumers, employers and investors. If EITHER holds back, it stalls.

        1. The stimulus package merely contained a one-time rebate check sent out, the amount depending on income and number of children, which is not at all the same thing as a REAL tax cut (a rate reduction).

          1. Behold the brainwashed goobers like Domestic Dissident

            The stimulus package merely contained a one-time rebate check sent out, the amount depending on income and number of children, which is not at all the same thing as a REAL tax cut (a rate reduction)

            Ready? (lol).

            1) Cut taxes by $400 for individuals and $800 for families through reduction of withholding. (The checks were from Bush, Sluggo)
            2) Greater access to the child tax credit for the working poor and an expanded earned-income tax credit to families with three children.
            3) A $2,500 college tuition tax credit for 2009 and 2010.
            4) An $8,000 tax credit for first-time homebuyers in 2009 only. (It was later extended through April 2010.)
            5) A deduction of sales tax on new car purchases through 2009 only.
            6) A suspension of taxes on the first $2,400 of unemployment benefits through 2009.

            No, I did NOT defend Obama. I said his and Bush’s failed for the same reason — because only gobbers get aree so EAGER to be brainwashed by their own tribe..

            Right – Left = Zero

            (boldface to enhance the ridicule)

      2. But not raising taxes is the same as a tax cut because taxes would have been raised but for the benevolence of our glorious leaders.

    4. Barry and his democrats gave a few free dollars to welfare cheats but nothing to workers. They loaded up on the taxes including a tax he signed his first week squatting in the WH. Your memory is faulty. The Kenyan years were 8 years of poverty and suffering.

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  2. inb4 “You’re taking Nancy Pelosi out of context!”

  3. Harsanyi never fails. More propaganda for goobers.

    But even Newt Gingrich says — writing in Fox — that a Democrat wave is coming, unless the GOP acts now.
    Newt Gingrich: My fellow Republicans, a Democratic wave election is coming unless we act right now | Fox News

    Progressives have been winning in the court of public opinion, on taxes, healthcare and the economy. Largely because the right refuses to accept it. How many goobers believe Trump’s claim that they repealed Obamacare?. And how many ant-gubmint libertarians reject our 40 year advocacy of transitioning Medicaid back to private charity. Americans have ALWAYS paid to provide healthcare for the uninsured — WITH NO INCOME CAPS. So we now see faux libertarians, like Rand Paul, rejecting free-market outcomes.

    Slogans over principle. (sad)

    1. Progressives have been winning in the court of public opinion, on taxes, healthcare and the economy.

      If they’ve been winning it’s largely because any pretense of journalism has gone once again out the window in this self-feeding hysteria over the Trump presidency. Harsanyi is correct about misleading and outright false headlines about the tax bill. And they’ve been by no means winning it on healthcare. The only thing helping the Democrats on that front is that the Republicans aren’t winning any public favors there, either.

      1. You realize who you’re replying to? He’s just gonna knock all the pieces off and shit on the board…then eat it.

        1. You realize who you’re replying to? He’s just gonna knock all the pieces off and shit on the board…then eat it.

          Umm, you support shitting on free market outcomes? We libertarians do not.

          Do the math.
          1) Americans are willing to provide medicare care for the uninsured, regardless of the patient’s income — since long before our founding. (Overall, humans have done so, voluntarily, since the 1500s).
          2) Progressives are the only ones claiming to provide what the people want.
          3) While anti-gubmint libertarian goobers SNEER at free market outcomes.
          4) So you and Fist of Etiquette shit on free market outcomes … AND shit on will of the people … but you’re NOT neo-nazis?
          5) And, somehow, it was the librul media that brainwashed Rand Paul, Fist of Etiquette and you into opposing free markets AND will of the people.
          6) And it’s likely you STILL are clueless on the core issues and principles here..

          So … if progressives are the ONLY ones claiming to provide what people have wanted for decades .. what are the people likely to support? And who are you to deny them — and why are you not authoritarian for doing so?

          1. I don’t recall saying I wasn’t a neo-nazi.

            1. Sorry. Blaming it on the media is bad enough.
              Now you claim to be a neo-nazi (or made a useless point)

        2. Sadly, he didn’t disappoint. He sucks the fun out of everything. I often wonder how the weather is up where he’s at, looking down on us plebes.

          Cue response about aggression and how he’s better than everyone

          1. Bend over. JAMMED up your ass, snowflake!.

            Cue response about aggression and how he’s better than everyone

            (sneer).
            1) Aggression is launching of an unprovoked attack, dumbfuck.
            2) Jamming the truth up your gang’s ass is NOT claiming to be “better than everyone” … whiney snowflake.

            Here’s what he’s punishing::

            Umm, you support shitting on free market outcomes? We libertarians do not.

            1) Americans are willing to provide medicare care for the uninsured, regardless of the patient’s income — since long before our founding. (Overall, humans have done so, voluntarily, since the 1500s).
            2) Progressives are the only ones claiming to provide what the people want.
            3) While anti-gubmint libertarian goobers SNEER at free market outcomes.
            4) So you and Fist of Etiquette shit on free market outcomes … AND shit on will of the people … but you’re NOT neo-nazis?
            5) And, somehow, it was the librul media that brainwashed Rand Paul, Fist of Etiquette and you into opposing free markets AND will of the people.
            6) And it’s likely you STILL are clueless on the core issues and principles here..

            So … if progressives are the ONLY ones claiming to provide what people have wanted for decades .. what are the people likely to support? And who are you to deny them — and why are you not authoritarian for doing so?

            NO ANSWER!!!!
            CELEBRATES feeding opponents into a woodchipper.

            (boldface in response to aggression)

            Right – Left = Zero

            1. Please, expand on your sodomy fantasises for us. Forced anal is rape, and not very libertarian of you, violating the NAP and all.

              You do realize you are the laughing stock of Reason right? We all laugh AT you, we find you completely unbearable. Your posts are like a train wreck: we have to read them because they are so fantastic and horrible all at once. Consider us all rubberneckers to your life (or lack of)

              1. Third repeat (lol)

                NO ANSWER!!!!
                CELEBRATES feeding opponents into a woodchipper.
                (boldface in response to aggression)

                STILL no answer!
                STILL lies about clearly visible comments.

                Does he feel “manly” yet? (snort)

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano cries like a little crybaby bitch.

                  1. Jamming it up his ass is … CRYING … to fellow goobers! (smirk)

                    NOW he’s stalking me down the page … HOPING to feel like a Manly Man

                    (One celebrates murdering people in a woodchipper … the other celebrates white privilege
                    BOTH have a right to to B E L L O W as they BULLY!)

                  2. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                    https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                    The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    2. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    3. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                    4. (snort) ABSOLUTE PROOF of total stupidity … or a fucking liar … or a cyber-bully/stalker … or all three! My work here is done.
                      Untilt his next page assault.

                    5. Dumbfuck Hihnsano still whining about mean words on the internet. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                    6. It’s called “aggression.” (sneer)

                      VERBAL aggression for the mentally deficient

                      “Verbal aggressiveness is viewed as a skill deficiency whereby an individual lacks the verbal skills required to deal with normal disagreements and everyday frustrations.”

                    7. Dumbfuck Hihnsano embodies verbal aggression and mental deficiency, will never stop whining about mean words on the internet or projecting like a 24-screen movie theater. (chortle) #HihnsanoSoFragile

      2. Repeat:
        And how many ant-gubmint libertarians reject our 40 year advocacy of transitioning Medicaid back to private charity. Americans have ALWAYS paid to provide healthcare for the uninsured — WITH NO INCOME CAPS. So we now see faux libertarians, like Rand Paul, rejecting free-market outcomes.?

    2. What free market outcome did Rand Paul (the most libertarian guy in the Senate) ever reject? Paul was one of the few Republicans actually trying to repeal Obamacare.

      1. What part of rejecting free-market outcomes has confused you?

        1. Sorry, CE, I misread your question … since I had already answered it. This was the free-market outcome, since well before our founding

          Americans have ALWAYS paid to provide healthcare for the uninsured — WITH NO INCOME CAPS.

          Today’s libertarians seem unaware that private charity has always outperformed gubmint programs. So this is the fuckup.

          anti-gubmint libertarians reject our 40 year advocacy of transitioning Medicaid back to private charity

          This is a tad more complicated than some goober bellowing, “REPEAL IT,” or “JUST GET GUBMINT OUT.”

          It requires a transition, because the entire private infrastructure must be rebuilt — the charitable funding and the charity hospitals that provided the care. Only bureaucrats would try to “plan” the transition. We need a transfer of funds, from government back to the private sector, as needed (both amount and timing). The easiest way to DESCRIBE is a 100% tax credit for contributions to the new infrastructure, which provides the right amount of dollars, precisely as needed.

          Howzat?

          1. Hi, Hihn. How are you doing?

            I disagree with:

            It requires a transition, because the entire private infrastructure must be rebuilt — the charitable funding and the charity hospitals that provided the care. Only bureaucrats would try to “plan” the transition. We need a transfer of funds, from government back to the private sector, as needed (both amount and timing).

            As you know, the free market (free people trading freely) is very good at fixing problems, It would be nice, granted, if the government gave back the money they steal, but do you have any confidence they could/would do it competently? Government actors don’t just fail to know why they are incompetent at dealing with the market, but they don’t even recognize that they are incompetent in the first place! (Well, it’s the lack of price mechanism and competition…)

            Anyhow, in a similar manner to the post-WW2 recovery*, any “transition” the government would try, any attempt at a transfer of funds, would likely just make the intervening period worse. And, while a tax credit sounds like a good idea, it usually ends up meaning that the government keeps its evil hands in picking winners and losers.

            * http://www.mercatus.org/publication/e…..-ii-period

            Anyhow, God Bless, and Merry Christmas!

            1. That’s a typical lame alibi. We pass laws to force it. as we’ve said for 40 years.
              Ummm, yes, failing to pass the laws properly will fail to achieve the outcome.

              There is literally no other alternative. So you’d just abandon all hope, and blame government for your own failures. How’s that been working for us?

              P.S.. Your Mercatus link is remarkably full of shit THE dumbest I’ve ever read,.

              The decade following World War II is fondly remembered as a period of economic growth and cultural stability

              By dumbfucks! We had five back-to-back recessions in only 12 years. 1945-1957 And collapsed from the only industrial base still standing, to “among the worst in economic growth” JFK SOTU

              And it’s HYSTERICAL to say we had economic growth with 91% tax rates!!!!..
              Then he fucks up the other side!

              .The hardships of the previous fifteen years of war and depression

              WE HAD A WARTIME BOOM!

              were replaced by rising living standards, increased opportunities, and a newly emerging American culture confident of its future and place in the world

              TOTAL fucking bullshit. Officlal dates for business cycles. Recessions start in the (PEAK) column, Count ’em. FIVE

              Any questions?

              Anyhow, God Bless, and Merry Christmas!

              And a blessed New Year to you.

              1. “That’s a typical lame alibi. We pass laws to force it. as we’ve said for 40 years.”

                “We” do no such thing, as “we” (libertarians) have no power.

                “There is literally no other alternative. So you’d just abandon all hope, and blame government for your own failures.”

                No, we (libertarians) should ignore it and do the right thing anyhow. It’s much better than waiting for government to do the right thing (which is surrender its power in this area and give back the money). The odds against that are staggering.

                “Your Mercatus link is remarkably full of shit THE dumbest I’ve ever read”

                Do you deny “The Fatal Conceit”, do you think that government can create wealth? “Recessions” are caused by governmental interference in the market, either by spending, or by “printing” money (fractional reserve banking). https://mises.org/library/hayek-business-cycle

                “WE HAD A WARTIME BOOM!”

                No, we didn’t. We (Americans) had a bubble that looked like “wealth”. GDP is nonsense.

                “Any questions?”

                Perhaps you should read more mises.org and less reason.com? That’s what I’ve started doing. The authors on mises.org are (generally) more logically consistent, and less …worried about the latest stupid thing the politicians said (in my opinion).

                God bless you, Hihn.

                1. “That’s a typical lame alibi. We pass laws to force it. as we’ve said for 40 years.”

                  “We” do no such thing, as “we” (libertarians) have no power.

                  Ummm, you “disagreed” with a PROPOSED libertarian SOLUTION … And then reverse yourself!

                  “There is literally no other alternative. So you’d just abandon all hope, and blame government for your own failures.”

                  No, we (libertarians) should ignore it and do the right thing anyhow.

                  Umm, that’s MY solution, YOU just dismissed it, saying we have no power.

                  “Your Mercatus link is remarkably full of shit THE dumbest I’ve ever read”

                  Do you deny “The Fatal Conceit”, do you think that government can create wealth?

                  Diversion.. They’re FULL OF SHIT that we had a postwar boom.

                  “Recessions” are caused by governmental interference in the market, either by spending, or by “printing” money (fractional reserve banking). https://mises.org/library/hayek-business-cycle

                  YOUR DUMBFUCK MISES.ORG SAYS THERE WERE NO RECESSIONS BEFORE THE FED???

                  That’s even crazier than your Mercatus “postwar boom”

                  Moving on. Still nothing here of value …

                  1. Correction:

                    “Recessions” are caused by governmental interference in the market, either by spending, or by “printing” money (fractional reserve banking). https://mises.org/library/hayek-business-cycle

                    Mises.org says no such thing at the link.

                    For the bullshit that recessions never existed until the Fed, THOUGHTFUL readers can google the Panic of 1890 … DESCRIBED AS A RECESSION BY …. MISES.ORG!!! http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Panic_of_1890 (OMG)

                    The WORD recession was not used until the 1930s … which causes some to assume they didn’t exist.

                    The FIVE postwar RECESSIONS were caused by a 91% tax rate. Mercatus says we had a major boom at 91% tax rates!!! Their tribal cult swallows it. So does Bernie Sanders.

                    “Fractional reserve banking” has always existed. It’s HOW banks create money!!! Their assets (loans) are greater than their liabilities (deposits). Reserves (deposits) are a fraction of their lending. In free-banking, the percentage changed with market conditions. In central banking, gummint mandates that percentage, ONE of MANY ways they increase money supply — no, not just “printing” it. If the Fed mandates a lower fraction, banks create more money (loans) than otherwise.

                    Banks ALWAYS create money. If they take a million in deposits and make a half-million in loans …. they created the half million!!! Elementary market economics.

                    1. Mises.org says no such thing at the link.

                      “Hayek wrote Monetary Theory and the Trade Cycle as an explication of the monetary causes of the business cycle.” (from the link)

                      You could just Google the several articles under “mises.org business cycles”. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K4Os5eXPw4

                      For the bullshit that recessions never existed until the Fed…

                      Read my statement again:

                      “‘Recessions’ are caused by governmental interference in the market, either by spending, or by ‘printing’ money (fractional reserve banking).”

                      That doesn’t deny that past recessions weren’t caused by non-governmental money printing, only that recessions are (currently) caused by governmental interference in the market, and that has been true for 100 years, the amount of time the government has monopolized money “printing”.

                      But, regardless of the misunderstanding: God Bless you, Hihn!

                    2. BEHOLD THE DUPLICITY AND MIND GAMES OF ROTHBARDIAN AN-CAPS!!

                      Mises.org says no such thing at the link

                      “Hayek wrote Monetary Theory and the Trade Cycle as an explication of the monetary causes of the business cycle.” (from the link)

                      OMG!
                      1) ADMITS his link is BOGUS …
                      2) We should read an entire book, MENTIONED at the link
                      3) AND “GOOGLE” the rest ourselves …where? ?..

                      You could just Google the several articles under “mises.org business cycles”. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K4Os5eXPw4

                      Google it AT A YOUTUBE VIDEO!!!!
                      Doesn’t understand “google” EITHER!!!!!!!!

                      Then …..MOAR mind games>/b>

                      For the bullshit that recessions never existed until the Fed, THOUGHTFUL readers can google the Panic of 1890 … DESCRIBED AS A RECESSION BY …. MISES.ORG!!! http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Panic_of_1890 (OMG)

                      Read my statement again:

                      … QUOTES his own words … then DENIES HIS OWN QUOTE!!!

                      Cont’d

                    3. Part 2
                      (emphasis added for the morally challenged)

                      ‘Recessions’ are caused by governmental interference in the market, either by spending, or by ‘printing’ money (fractional reserve banking).”

                      That doesn’t deny that past recessions weren’t caused by non-governmental money printing, only that recessions are (currently) caused by governmental interference in the market

                      GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE” DOES NOT MEAN GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE!!
                      IT INCLUDES NON-GOVERNMENT ACTION!

                      Also non-responsive to his fuckup on what fractional reserve banking means — ANOTHER idiocy of anti-gubmint goobers!

                      But, regardless of the misunderstanding: God Bless you, Hihn!

                      A merciful God will forgive your many months of intentional lies and trolling ?.. but only if you REDEEM YOURSELF.

                      REJECT THE ANTI-CHRIST. Accept the one true Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. BEG HIS FORGIVENESS. As it is so written.

                      Praise the Lord!
                      Hallelujah! .

                    4. You can’t have a kind disagreement to save your life, now can you? Also, how do you not know about Austrian business cycle theory?

                      ADMITS his link is BOGUS

                      Nope.

                      We should read an entire book, MENTIONED at the link

                      Nope.

                      AND “GOOGLE” the rest ourselves …where?

                      “mises.org business cycle”

                      Google it AT A YOUTUBE VIDEO!

                      No, I did the work for you. That was one of my results.

                      QUOTES his own words … then DENIES HIS OWN QUOTE!

                      Perhaps my greatest challenge thus far in my life is treating you kindly… Anyhow, no, I didn’t.

                    5. MORE MIND GAMES!

                      You can’t have a kind disagreement to save your life, now can you?

                      Did I trigger the snowflake??. With FACTS and SOURCES?

                      Also, how do you not know about Austrian business cycle theory?

                      How do YOU believe we had an economic boom, with 91% tax rates (PROVEN)

                      ADMITS his link is BOGUS

                      Nope

                      LIAR I quoted it! You also said government included non-government! .
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7073261

                      We should read an entire book, MENTIONED at the link

                      Nope.

                      PATHETIC liar. ALSO proven (same link)

                      AND “GOOGLE” the rest ourselves …where? Google it AT A YOUTUBE VIDEO!!!!
                      Doesn’t understand “google” EITHER!!!!!!!!

                      “mises.org business cycle”Now a FUCKING liar. (same link)

                      Perhaps my greatest challenge thus far in my life is treating you kindly

                      STALKING AND OUTRAGEOUS LIES, followed by “God bless you,” is NOT kind.
                      Or even civil.

                      QUOTES his own words … then DENIES HIS OWN QUOTE!

                      … Anyhow, no, I didn’t

                      .WORSE THAN A FUCKING LIAR. PROVEN AT THE SAME LINK.

                    6. FACTS and SOURCES?

                      Love to see those.

                      How do YOU believe we had an economic boom, with 91% tax rates

                      Less spending. Also, loopholes.

                      LIAR I quoted it! You also said government included non-government!

                      100 years ago, yes. Not since the Fed began. Hence “government causes recessions” is a true statement.

                      Google it AT A YOUTUBE VIDEO!

                      Yes, Google will link to that too.

                      STALKING AND OUTRAGEOUS LIES

                      Yep, telling you you’re wrong is “stalking”.

                      WORSE THAN A FUCKING LIAR.

                      Remember, ladies and gentlemen, this is how Hihn has a minor disagreement.

                  2. Ummm, you “disagreed” with a PROPOSED libertarian SOLUTION

                    I disagreed it was the best solution, or that it was feasible. An An-Cap saying it’s infeasible should give you pause, right?

                    Umm, that’s MY solution, YOU just dismissed it, saying we have no power.

                    We don’t have to wait upon the state to do the right thing.

                    They’re FULL OF SHIT that we had a postwar boom.

                    We did. Government did less, the free market did more. Wealth was created.

                    YOUR DUMBFUCK MISES.ORG SAYS THERE WERE NO RECESSIONS BEFORE THE FED?

                    Please, be careful before you call the smartest, most logically consistent libertarians and economists (mises.org) “dumb”. No, though all money “printing” is now done by government (and the last 100 years of recessions were caused by the government doing this), prior to government money printing, there was non-governmental bank money printing, hence “bank notes” and “runs on banks”.

                    1. MOAR MIND GAMES from the anti-gummint troll ? brainwashed goobers from our wacko branch ? an-cap/Rothbard/Mises.org. (and much of Mercatus)

                      They’re (Mercatus)FULL OF SHIT that we had a postwar boom.

                      We did. Government did less, the free market did more. Wealth was created.

                      Now HE is as full of shit as them! SEE THE PROOF
                      1) SAYS NINETY-ONE PERCENT TAX RATES IS LESS GOVERNMENT ? because SPENDING decreased (OMFG) History of income tax rates and brackets

                      2) DENIES FIVE BACK-TO-BACK RECESSIONS IN ONLY 12 YEARS!!!
                      Offiicial dates for business cycles since the 1800s. http://www.nber.org/cycles.html

                      In Orwell’s 1984, the ignorant suffered the total mind control of NewSpeak .. “Freedom is slavery. Peace is war. Ignorance is strength.
                      We can now add “Government is non-government”
                      And “91% tax rates mean less government” …. less gummint than the same 91% during the New Deal! (smirk)

                      Our anti-gubmint goobers are as totally tribal as the dummy branches on both left and right.
                      Shamelessly manipulated by their total ignorance of even fundamental facts, they are to be both feared pitied … as they troll their bullshit on message boards .. never caring how stupid they look …. “for the blessed cause”

                      Be pro-liberty … cuz loving liberty is more powerful than hating gummint … and anti-gubmint goobs are EAGER to be brainwashed.
                      Proven once again.

                      (Hihn vomits, then walks away)

                    2. P.S. How much PROOF does a goober needs … month after month after month?.

                      Please, be careful before you call the smartest, most logically consistent libertarians and economists (mises.org) “dumb”.

                      Just as dumb as the Christian Taliban, who he also parrots … despite faux anarchy!.
                      Mindless trolls for Rothbard et al.

                    3. prior to government money printing, there was non-governmental bank money printing,

                      WHICH YOU DENIED UNTIL PROVEN WRONG!
                      Here: https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7073262

                      hence “bank notes” and “runs on banks”.

                      RUNS ON BANKS!
                      Goobers CANNOT escape from their own ignorance. DOES NOT KNOW WHAT “RUNS ON BANKS” WERE!

                      “Printed money” by banks — were also called GOLD CERTIFICATES.
                      REPEAT: If a bank has a million in deposits (liabilities) and makes a half-million in loans — the money now equals $1.5 million …. BACKED BY GOLD … which is how banks “printed” money.

                      ARGUES against the FED,, but TOTALLY ignorant of what it replaced.

                      Please, be careful before you call the smartest, most logically consistent libertarians and economists (mises.org) “dumb”.

                      (smirk) YOU say THEY taught YOU all the BREATHTAKINGLY DUMB stuff you’ve spewed here!!

                      (Like Trumpsters, all the proof in the universe does not even shake their blind-faith tribal brainwashing.)

                      But, God blesses him anyhow …. IF HE REPENTS. As it is so written
                      The bottom of THIS: https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7073262

                      (This dude has been stalking me for nearly a year … with the same degree of bullshit and gibberish — common to most an-caps.)

                    4. WHICH YOU DENIED UNTIL PROVEN WRONG!

                      Wrong.

                      DOES NOT KNOW WHAT “RUNS ON BANKS” WERE!

                      Printing more notes for redemption of gold (or silver) than they had actual stores of gold (or silver).

                      YOU say THEY taught YOU all the BREATHTAKINGLY DUMB stuff you’ve spewed here!

                      You really don’t know much about economics, now do you? I suppose if I believed what the Keynesians (Neo-Keynesians) told me I’d be misinformed too.

                      But, God blesses him anyhow …. IF HE REPENTS. As it is so written

                      Well, you brought it up…

                      You know nothing about the Bible, only what you think can “disprove” it. I tell you nothing but the truth, you attack me. But I don’t attack back, because of Matthew 5:38-40, which concerns minor attacks.

                      This dude has been stalking me for nearly a year

                      No, I simply dispel myths when I see them. They often come from you, granted, but have you ever thought your inability to be corrected might be the cause of that?

                    5. DOES NOT KNOW WHAT “RUNS ON BANKS” WERE!

                      Printing more notes for redemption of gold (or silver) than they had actual stores of gold (or silver).

                      WRONG. Already disproven
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7073272

                      More mind games and bullshit.

                    6. WRONG. Already disproven

                      Then he deeplinks to his own comment… which is just him shouting. And I already answered him.

                      More mind games and bullshit.

                      Minor disagreement with Hihn. Result? Constant shouting, cursing, being called a “liar”, “troll”, “brainwashed goober”. Are you angry that I won’t give up regardless of how much you shout and insult me? It seems this way to me.

                      Hihn, you do know that the common denominator for all your conflicts is YOU, right?

                    7. Just as dumb as the Christian Taliban, who he also parrots … despite faux anarchy! … Mindless trolls

                      Just like Alinsky taught, when you can’t argue with something, attempt to ridicule it instead!

                      And my anarchy is true. There ought to be no government (as the word is used in the modern English, the thing that taxes and demands a monopoly on violence). Those within it are guilty of “Thou shalt not covet”, “Thou shalt not steal”, and “Thou shalt not murder”, definitionally.

                      But, still, despite you clinging to your error:

                      “The Lord bless you
                      and keep you;the Lord make his face shine on you
                      and be gracious to you;
                      the Lord turn his face toward you
                      and give you peace.”

                      (Why the blessing? “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.”)

                    8. SAYS NINETY-ONE PERCENT TAX RATES IS LESS GOVERNMENT ? because SPENDING decreased (OMFG)

                      Yes, government is smaller if it spends less. Government money spent is a tax increase either now or in the future.

                      DENIES FIVE BACK-TO-BACK RECESSIONS IN ONLY 12 YEARS!

                      Government spending is creates bubbles and malinvestment. This isn’t even advanced Austrian Economics.

                      Be pro-liberty … cuz loving liberty is more powerful than hating gummint

                      I’d love to see how you could be pro-liberty and “love Big Brother” (turnabout is fair play).

                    9. (Unnecessary “is”, oh well…)

                    10. LINK TO ABSOLUTE PROOF ,… 5 recessions and 91% tax rates during his bullshit boom .
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7073272

                      Goober STILL denies!

                      How do YOU believe we had an economic boom, with 91% tax rates (PROVEN)

                      STILL NO ANSWER!

                      SAYS WE HAD AN ECONOMIC BOOM AT 91% TAX RATES!!
                      SAYS NINETY-ONE PERCENT TAX RATES IS LESS GOVERNMENT ? because SPENDING decreased (OMFG)

                      Government money spent is a tax increase either now or in the future

                      TAX RATES HIGHER THAN 91%!!!! .
                      WHEN SPENDING WAS CUT NEARLY IN HALF!

                      “DENIES FIVE BACK-TO-BACK RECESSIONS IN ONLY 12 YEARS!”

                      Government spending is creates bubbles and malinvestment.

                      AUSTRIAN “GENIUS” SAYS FIVE RECESSIONS IS ….. A BUBBLE!

                      AGAIN REJECTS PROOF OF FIVE RECESSIONS
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7073272

                      Be pro-liberty … cuz loving liberty is more powerful than hating gummint

                      I’d love to see how you could be pro-liberty and “love Big Brother”

                      ANOTHER FUCKING LIE!.

                      But he BELEEBS … despite official data!
                      Is it …. FAKE NEWS? (lol)

                    11. LINK TO ABSOLUTE PROOF ,… 5 recessions and 91% tax rates during his bullshit boom

                      GDP is worthless, value is relative, spending is taxation either now or in the future. This is simply Austrian economics, but Hihn “knows better”. I don’t think he knows I actually am an economist and this is what I constantly study…

                      STILL NO ANSWER!

                      You literally just asked it! Answer? Less spending, and loopholes. Hardly anyone actually paid 91% of their last dollars earned because they hired tax advisers to avoid it.

                      AUSTRIAN “GENIUS” SAYS FIVE RECESSIONS IS ….. A BUBBLE!

                      I think he hates Austrian Economists as they remind him of his Nemesis (Ron Paul). Oh, well. The answer is that there were “recessions” due to the government-induced bubble.

                      AGAIN REJECTS PROOF OF FIVE RECESSIONS

                      2 things, GDP is worthless, and “recessions” are (usually) good things as they allow the malinvestment created by government to liquidate itself. This is (once again) basic Austrian Economics.

                      Also, how can “I’d love to see how you could be pro-liberty and ‘love Big Brother'” possibly be a “lie”? I don’t claim anything is true, I challenge you to show me something! Is that your way of admitting you can’t show it?

                      Still:

                      “The Lord bless you
                      and keep you;
                      the Lord make his face shine on you
                      and be gracious to you;
                      the Lord turn his face toward you
                      and give you peace.”

          2. Dude, you’ve brought up charity hospitals ad nauseam regarding this and its a complete pipe dream. Most of these charity hospitals have lost funding and closed as the congregations at the churches most were associated with continue to dwindle.

            The ones that haven’t folded are largely merged into other (typically university because they’re easiest to siphon money from) medical systems to help subsidize/supplement their endeavors. Like the shriners and case western reserve university hospitals in Cleveland or UPMC and Mercy hospital in Pittsburgh as my local examples of former charity hospitals no longer being viable.

            Your charity hospitals either don’t exist or require massive subsidies to keep them afloat, beyond “charity”, usually coming in the form of swindled student loans/tuition.

            So in order for your charity model you would need to somehow increase congregations at the churches that funded these hospitals, convince non religious people to donate to religiously associated charities/hospitals, start a bunch of non religious charity hospitals with no funding base, and convince everyone that a unpredictable stream of donations will cover the healthcare costs of the future. Not to mention the multitude of other kinks as to when free care starts and end, who gets what, how donations are distributed, etc.

            1. … Continued

              So your solution would require aligning a multitude of factors that have literally no chance of happening, including massive cultural changes, and in the case of donations to these charity hospitals the free market has shown its a rapidly shrinking funding pool.

              But you’ll keep thinking its a good idea because you came up with it. Even though its LITERALLY impossible in today’s reality. And that’s why you fail so miserably and comically. You have great theories that may work in a vacuum or at the forming of a new government but they aren’t even worth considering in the real world. You’re so worried about pumping your own ideas and ego your completely ignorant of the process that would be required to go from where we are now, to where you think we should be. It shows your self centered and lack foresight.

            2. 1st of two
              PROOF! Conservative goobers (like Dizzle, not all conservatives) are the planet’s BIGGEST dumbfucks!!!

              Dude, you’ve brought up charity hospitals ad nauseam regarding this and its a complete pipe dream

              (snort)

              Most of these charity hospitals have lost funding and closed as the congregations at the churches most were associated with continue to dwindle.

              Pay attention, dumbfuck.
              1) Why continue supporting charity, when Medicaid did it all for free?
              2) Government never displaces voluntary private actions?

              ****AND YOU’RE TOTALLY FUCKING STUPID ON WHO FUNDED CHARITY HOSPITALS!

              AND EVEN CRAZIER ?

              Your charity hospitals either don’t exist or require massive subsidies to keep them afloat, beyond “charity”, usually coming in the form of swindled student loans/tuition.

              “CHARITY” WAS SUBSIDIZED BEFORE EVEN THE NEW DEAL …
              THUS PRIVATE CHARITY IS A FUCKING LIE INVENTED BY LIBERTARIANS!!!

              Can he get CRAZIER? KEEP READING! (omfg)

              1. Part 2

                So in order for your charity model you would need to somehow increase congregations at the churches that funded these hospitals,

                THE HOSPITALS WERE FUNDED BY MOSTLY SECULAR CHARITIES — YOU CRAZY-ASS MORON — LIKE SHRINERS. KIWANIS, ROTARY — THE SAME FRATERNALS THAT HAVE FUNDED HUMANITARIAN EFFORTS SINCE ….. THE …. 16TH CENTURY … BUT ? ONE KIND OF MOTHER-FUCKER … ANTI-HUMAN-NATURE … CONSERVATIVE CLAIMS

                AMERICANS WOULD *REFUSE* TO SUPPORT HEALTHCARE FOR THE UNINSNURED AND/OR INDIGENT … IF THEY WERE GRACIOUSLY ALLOWED CONTROL OF THEIR OWN MONEY?

                SHOW OF HANDS — DID THIS DUMBFUCK JUST *DEFEND* GOVERNMENT AS THE *ONLY* WAY TO PROVIDE SUCH HEALTH ACRE … BECAUSE HUMANS ARE TOO FUCKING SELFISH?

                IS HIS ROTTING BRAIN THE DREAM COME TRUE FOR PROGRESSIVISM?
                DOES HE ***PROVE*** EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEIR CLAIMS? “LET THEM DIE!”
                Or eat cake??? (lol)

                The defense (of individual liberty) rests.
                While vomiting

                (boldface to enhance the ridicule of one desperate loser — one of millions. all brainwashed puppets of the authoritarian right)

                1. Yawn

                  1. Says the lying asshole who BRAGS about MURDERING people … feeding them into a woodchipper.
                    https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072007
                    One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and ……. ………. …….. …………….stalker (sneer)

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano has a neurotic pants-shitting episode again.

                      Post under one of your sockpuppets, instead, Dumbfuck Hihnsano.

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano has a neurotic pants-shitting episode again.

                      Post under one of your sockpuppets, instead, Dumbfuck Hihnsano

                      One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and ……. ………. …….. …………….stalker (sneer)

                      They travel in a pack. Like wild dogs.

                      NOW he’s stalking me down the page … HOPING to feel like a Manly Man

                      (One celebrates murdering people in a woodchipper … the other celebrates white privilege
                      BOTH have a right to to B E L L O W as they BULLY!)

                    3. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    4. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    5. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** A***CANCER***PATIENT?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    6. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                    7. (snort) ABSOLUTE PROOF of total stupidity … or a fucking liar … or a cyber-bully/stalker … or all three! My work here is done.
                      Until his next page assault.

                      A search of THIS page finds 26 comments by Red Rocks White Privilege
                      Number with content on the topic = 0
                      Number with any substance at all = 0
                      Number with personal assault and aggression = 26

                      Cyber-bullies have a RIGHT to be Bellowing Blowhards. Doing the Lord’s work!
                      Self-righteously.
                      HALLELUJAH!

                    8. Dumbfuck Hihnsano still whining about mean words on the internet. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                    9. It’s called “aggression.” (sneer)

                      VERBAL aggression for the mentally deficient

                      “Verbal aggressiveness is viewed as a skill deficiency whereby an individual lacks the verbal skills required to deal with normal disagreements and everyday frustrations.”

                    10. Dumbfuck Hihnsano embodies verbal aggression and mental deficiency, will never stop whining about mean words on the internet or projecting like a 24-screen movie theater. (chortle) #HihnsanoSoFragile

    3. Progressives have been winning in the court of public opinion … Largely because

      It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion and not being able to turn away: Hihn explaining how to make a persuasive, coherent argument!

      1. GOOBER ALERT!! (Mark22)
        I said:

        “Progressives have been winning in the court of public opinion, on taxes, healthcare and the economy. Largely because the right refuses to accept it.”

        SO MARK REFUSES TO ACCEPT IT! )

        It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion and not being able to turn away: Hihn explaining how to make a persuasive, coherent argument!

        Let’s do taxes, , chump!

        Most Americans believe a $50,000 worker pays a higher income tax rate (avg 8.4%) than millionaires and billionaires (avg 28%)

        IS 8 HIGHER THAN 28, MARK? (sneer ) WE’RE LOSING IN PUBLIC OPINION — YOU REFUSE TO ACCEPT WHY. IRS data for 2014, the latest year with such detail.

        BEND OVER. IT GETS WORSE! “THE RICH DON’T PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE!”
        Do they, chump?

        (same data)

        Core middle class ($40-100,000 AGI)
        $2,637B reported income ? 29.0% share of all
        $233B taxes paid ? 16.9% share.

        DO THE MATH, CHUMP
        1) Reports 29% of Income, pays 16.9% of tax ? 58.4% OF ITS OWN SHARE.
        2) Requires 71% tax INCREASE to pay their own share.
        3) THE RICH SUBSIDIZE 41.6% OF THEIR ENTIRE SHARE of tax.

        PROVEN: failure and denial by the right

        (Boldface and snark in response to aggression by a punk stalker for many months … revenge because I KEEP kicking his sorry ass)
        (vomit)

        1. It’s funny, ironic, and sad clown sad that you like to hate on trump so much but your posts almost identically mimic his tweeting style…

          To anyone looking in you appear even more jackasstastic than he does on twitter, which is quite a feat.

          At least your good at something i guess, cuz you’ve certainly failed miserably at coherently promoting any kind of libertarian ideals.

        2. Lol you’re using your own opinion to support another of your opinions, as fact.

          Obamacare has never had a favorable view in its history, and only briefly did on some of the liberally skewed polls for a few months to start this year. A majority of the “impartial” polls like Gallup, Rasmussen, and Quinnipiac have had unfavorable ratings of 7-10 points the entire life of the law.

          1. FAKE NEWS!!
            THE DANGERS OF ONLY FOX, BRIETBART AND INFOWARS ON THE EAGER-TO-BE-BRAINWASHED GOOBERS AND GOMERS

            Obamacare has never had a favorable view in its history, and only briefly did on some of the liberally skewed polls for a few months to start this year. A majority of the “impartial” polls like Gallup, Rasmussen, and Quinnipiac have had unfavorable ratings of 7-10 points the entire life of the law.

            UNTIL voters saw the GOP was full of shit on an alterbative.
            ALL polls now show majority support for Obamacare ..,. CREATED by Republicans … and less than 35% for Trumpcare.

            Here’s YOUR Rasmusseen on the larger GOP damage. (LAUGHING AT THE PUPPET))

            “A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters favor a single-payer health care system …. That’s up from 44% in May which was the first time in surveys since 2009 that more voters supported a single-payer system than opposed it. Thirty-six percent (36%) still oppose a single-payer system, but this is a new low.”

            Dizzle’s mindless brainwashed drolling is further exposed here.
            https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7071938

            Left – Right = Zero (STILL!)

          2. Lol you’re using your own opinion to support another of your opinions, as fact.

            SEE MY LINK TO IRS DATA!!!
            https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7071468

            THREE TIMES A PROVEN FOOL!
            THE FOX/BREITBART/INFOWARS/RONPAUL braintrust.
            (pissing my shorts in laughter)

            1. (pissing my shorts in laughter)

              That will go nicely with the Hershey squirts you’ve already filled them with, Dumbfuck Hihnsano.

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano

                .One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and ……. ………. …….. …………….stalker (sneer)

                (One celebrates murdering people in a woodchipper … the other celebrates white privilege
                BOTH have a right to to B E L L O W as they BULLY!)

                Haters gotta hate. Stalkers gotta stalk. .

                1. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                  https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                  The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                  1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    1. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** A***CANCER***PATIENT?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla>

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                    3. (snort) ABSOLUTE PROOF of total stupidity … or a fucking liar … or a cyber-bully/stalker … or all three! My work here is done.
                      Until his next page assault.

                      A search of THIS page finds 26 comments by Red Rocks White Privilege
                      Number with content on the topic = 0
                      Number with any substance at all = 0
                      Number with personal assault and aggression = 26

                      Cyber-bullies have a RIGHT to be Bellowing Blowhards. Doing the Lord’s work!
                      Self-righteously.
                      HALLELUJAH!

                      NO GUILT OR SHAME IS THE CLINICAL DEFINITION OF A … PSYCHOPATH.

                    4. Dumbfuck Hihnsano still whining about mean words on the internet. #HihnsanoSoFragile

    4. Over 1100 Goobers(D) have been sent to the unemployment line since your Kenyan mistake Michael.
      The Race Baiting president squandered huge majorities in homage to his ego, and you can’t handle the truth.

  4. Comrades!!!

    Join all democrats and socialists as we oppose the terrible tax bill as it favors the evil KKKorporations!!!

    #WeWillPayMoreTaxesThenWeHaveTo2018!!!

    Let’s show the Evil GOP and their PuppetMasters the evil KKKorporations!!!

    We will pay more taxes than the IRS wants us to to show the Evil GOP and their PuppetMasters the evil KKKorporations!!!

    #WeWillPayMoreTaxesThenWeHaveTo2018!!!

      1. ^ irony folks.

        1. No kidding.

          1. Hysteria has a large following here.

            1. Why? Are you that fat?

              1. MOAR AGGRESSION BY MARK22

                Mark22|12.22.17 @ 5:01PM|#
                Why? Are you that fat?

                See his ASS KICKED here (smirk)
                https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7071468

            2. I don’t see why not; it’s a good album.

        2. How can I nominate this for Post of the Year?

          1. How can I nominate this for Post of the Year?

            Be as crazy as you were here!
            https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7071935

            Uh-oh, I disagreed. That means he wants to feed me into a woodchipper.
            The authoritarian right is like a pack of wild dogs…

            1. For the 1000th time: no one wants to feed anyone to a woodchipper, it’s a reference to the movie Fargo. And once the Stasi subpoenaed Reason for user information, many people changed their names as a “middle finger” to the government. Since you worship the government and have no sense of logic, reason or humor, I understand how hard it is for you to grasp these complex issues

              1. BEND OVER … your bullshit jammed up your ass AGAIN!

                For the 1000th time: no one wants to feed anyone to a woodchipper, it’s a reference to the movie Fargo.

                For 101st time. THIS is the scene the fucking psycho BRAGS of copying … FEEDING a human into a woodchipper .. AS MURDER (vomit)
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWFhDvURLg

                Back in 1986 in Newtown, Connecticut, Danish flight attendant Helle Crafts was murdered by her pilot husband Richard Craft who had a quick temper and was not happy she was divorcing him over his adultery.

                The special edition of the Fargo DVD mentions that the film was inspired the murder of Helle Craft.

                Pathetic piece of shit .. bully … thug … aggression.

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano cries like a bitch again.

                  1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano cries like a bitch again

                    Jamming it their ass … in boldface is ……….CRYING to the losers! (OMFG).

                    One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and ……. ………. …….. …………….stalker (sneer)

                    They travel in a pack. Like wild dogs.

                    NOW he’s stalking me down the page … HOPING to feel like a Manly Man

                    (One celebrates murdering people in a woodchipper … the other celebrates white privilege
                    BOTH have a right to to B E L L O W as they BULLY!)

                    Haters gotta hate. Bullies gotta bully.

                    Right-wing goobers Uber Alles

                  2. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                    https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                    The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    2. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** A***CANCER***PATIENT?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    3. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                    4. (snort) ABSOLUTE PROOF of total stupidity … or a fucking liar … or a cyber-bully/stalker … or all three! My work here is done.
                      Until his next page assault.

                      A search of THIS page finds 26 comments by Red Rocks White Privilege
                      Number with content on the topic = 0
                      Number with any substance at all = 0
                      Number with personal assault and aggression = 26

                      Cyber-bullies have a RIGHT to be Bellowing Blowhards. Doing the Lord’s work!
                      Self-righteously.
                      HALLELUJAH!

                      NO GUILT OR SHAME IS THE CLINICAL DEFINITION OF A … PSYCHOPATH.

                    5. Dumbfuck Hihnsano still whining about mean words on the internet. #HihnsanoSoFragile

  5. The “average” cut will be $2,140. That’s a meaningless number.

    You could give every American a $1 cut then give everyone at the top HUGE cuts until the “average cut” is $2000, and crow about how everyone is getting a tax cut.

    Also, only 80% are receiving tax cuts, 20% will pay the same or more. Is $2,140 the average ONLY for people receiving the cut or is that the average including losses and gains together?

    What’s the modal average? Median?

    1. I’m not accusing anyone of any shenanigans, just requesting that you either fully explain the number or omit it.

      1. fully explain the number

        here you go.

      2. I’LL PISTOL WHIP THE NEXT PERSON WHO SAYS SHENANGIANS

          1. NOBODY LIKES A WISENHEIMER

            1. I for one like a wiseheimer.

        1. What’s the place you like to go to, with the crazy crap on the wall and the mozzarella sticks?

          1. He who BRAGS about MURDERING people … feeding them into a woodchipper.
            https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072007
            One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and stalker

            1. #HihnsanoSoFragile

              Don’t make me put another tumor in your neck, shitheap.

              1. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                Jamming it up their ass is … FRAGILE to the goobers!

                Don’t make me put another tumor in your neck, shitheap

                BOOGA – BOOGA BULLIES On PARADE.

                Stalking me down the page. Cuz bullies gotta bully. Right-wingers gotta hate.

                And fascists gotta fash. In the authoritarian right.

                1. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                  https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                  The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                  1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex Whines like a bitch and exposes his buttstuff fetish. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    1. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** A***CANCER***PATIENT?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

    2. Most people are going to see a cut of $800, $1600 if they are married, due to the higher standard deduction and the removal of the personal exemption. If you itemize and live in a high cost, high tax state, you’ll probably break even or be among the 5 percent paying more.

      1. Iirc democrats in blue cities will see most of the increases. Hence the current outrage and also the likelihood it won’t matter.

        1. Right… b/c tens of millions living in NY, NJ, CA, etc are held hostage by the craphole red states.

          “won’t matter”? Maybe more like accelerate the increasingly inevitable dissolution of the union (which is what needs to happen) there is *no* common ground and each side despises the other far more than they do any outside force.

          How long do you think the states making the bulk of the money for the US will continue to subsidize rich GOP downers and rich white libertarian ahole hypocrites in red states just because the rabble you guys keep wallowing in poverty can be bought with a racist dog whistle, promise of a coal mining job and a wall, and $500?

          1. (deep bow of respect)
            UNLESS you defend the other side.
            Left – Right = Zero

          2. Right… b/c tens of millions living in NY, NJ, CA, etc are held hostage by the craphole red states.

            Move to the city and learn to code.

          3. The rest have been subsidizing NY CA IL NJ for decades through the Fed tax exemption for state taxes. This bill levels the playing field somewhat.

      2. Most people are going to see a cut of $800, $1600 if they are married, due to the higher standard deduction

        That would depend on how much they are now itemizing. Math 101.

    3. I just spent $2200 fixing my car today. So $2140 is hardly meaningless.

      1. WHY DIDN’T YOU JUST USE THAT MONEY AS A DOWN PAYMENT FOR A NEW CAR YOU SILLY GOOSE

        1. Why are you yelling today?

          1. THE TAX CUT APOCALYPSE IS VERY LOUD

          2. You have to tell to drown out Hihn these days

            1. Yell*

            2. He who BRAGS about MURDERING people … feeding them into a woodchipper.
              https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072007
              One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and stalker

              1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano whines about stalkers while systematically stalking the same person.

                Put a sheet on the wall and you can charge admission, Dumbfuck Hihnsano!

                1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano whines about stalkers while systematically stalking the same person.

                  Fulla-shit cocksucker LIES ABOUT SELF-DEFENSE!
                  https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072002

                  Put a sheet on the wall and you can charge admission, Dumbfuck Hihnsano!

                  KKK LOVES THEIR SHEETS

                  (One celebrates murdering people in a woodchipper … the other celebrates white privilege
                  BOTH have a right to to B E L L O W as they BULLY!)

                  TWO now stalking me down the page … HOPING to feel like Manly Men …. traveling in a pack like wild dogs …. asshole and his sock puppet.

                  DON’T CARE HOW THUGGISH THEY LOOK
                  BULLIES GOTT BULLY
                  HATERS GOTTA HATE
                  FASCSISTS GOTTA FASH

                  (smirk))

                  1. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                    https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                    The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    2. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** A***CANCER***PATIENT?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    3. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

    4. Well, if you want to see more statistics here you go.

      1. That’s NPR … a lefty site … but the data are from the Tax Policy Center (linked)

  6. I like to think the election result was also a reaction to Obamacare. I haven’t seen too much discussion on how much of an impact O’care really had on election night.

    Obama. Not gone enough.

    1. Obama. Not gone enough.

      CANADIAN GRAMMAR IS WEIRD

    1. Crusty seems to have gotten himself into either a really bad batch of egg nog or a really good batch of egg nog, one.

      1. OR A DAD PATCH OF LEG HOG IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN

            1. Do we need to call someone for you? Maybe you should stop by our emergency department, let us have a look at you; on the other hand…carry on.

              1. WHY DO YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ME ARE YOU A VOYEURISTIC FREAK

                MORE LIKE BOYEURISTIC AM I RIGHT

        1. And…we can pinpoint the exact moment at which Crusty had his stroke…

          1. Switch to present tense. It’s still running.

            1. Unfortunately, we’re still waiting for you to have yours.

              1. Your ilk waits forever for its delusions.

                1. ^more irony

                  1. Asshole BRAGS about MURDERING people … feeding them into a woodchipper.
                    https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072007
                    One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and stalker

                    1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano whines about stalker while stalking them.

                      One dumbfuck Hihnsano!

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano whines about stalker while stalking them.

                      Stalkers PISSED at SELF-DEFENSE! HOW DARE WE
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072004

                      One dumbfuck Hihnsano!

                      (One celebrates murdering people in a woodchipper … the other celebrates white privilege
                      BOTH have a right to to B E L L O W as they BULLY!)

                      THE AUTHORITARIAN RIGHT … GANGING UP SINCE HITLER

                    3. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    4. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    5. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** A***CANCER***PATIENT?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    6. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

      2. I was literally going to make that same joke above at the same time you did, but then the 80s called and I had to give them their joke back

          1. Crusty watches GLOW for the costumes.

        1. In all seriousness, I was going to say that Crusty was hitting the egg nog early and by egg nog I meant cocaine, which is technically way more 80s than your joke. But close enough

          1. WHAT DO DUCKS LIKE TO SMOKE?

            QUACK COCAINE

            1. I will have to remember that one

          2. And way better than egg nog.

        2. It’s not my fault i was born then.

  7. Try as I might, I can’t think of any tax cut that Democrats would approve of. They’d whine about “plutocrats” no matter how the tax code was restructured.

    1. Sales tax on feminine hygiene products.

  8. No way the hag is losing in ’16 to that doofus Trump, either!

  9. The group likely to be most dissatisfied with the new tax bill is higher-end wage earners in places with high state and local taxes who will run into the $10,000 deduction cap. Since these places are already Democrat strongholds, it stands to reason that their echo chamber tells them this is a decisive issue — in spite of the fact that increased Democrat turnout in such places will do them no good in a Presidential election, and little good in Congressional ones.

    1. Yep. Guys like Welchie Boy, who has been crying like a little bitch about it on Twitter for weeks and weeks on end now.

      1. WHAT A DISAPPOINTING NICKNAME

        1. It’s rather endearing.

          And Fat Squelch is just lying there on the sidewalk.

          1. Say what you will about Simple Mikey, he’s not a low-hanging-fruit kinda guy.

  10. Sure, people will like the tax cuts in vacuo.

    The question is whether they will like the tax cuts + the spending cuts that will be necessary to make the tax cuts fiscally viable.

    1. Yes, the proverbial “other shoe.”

    2. Sounds like a good reason not to cut spending.

    3. So you want spending cuts then?

    4. The question is whether they will like the tax cuts + the spending cuts that will be necessary to make the tax cuts fiscally viable.

      The people who benefit from the tax cut will likely also like the spending cuts.

      The people who will hate the spending cuts likely already hate the tax cut.

      1. The people who only benefit a little bit from the tax cuts won’t like the spending cuts either. The ones who don’t like the tax cuts plus the ones who won’t like the spending cuts (e.g. old people) end up being a lot of people. Ergo, spending cuts won’t be made, unless the GOP really cares about deficits (they don’t).

  11. oh no the gop lost the support of the blue states they’ll never get elected again!!!!

    It’s kind of funny when today’s progressive panic is faux concern about a faux crisis for the Republicans.

    1. You know there’s a whole house of representatives, right?

      1. It will be interesting to see what happens to Republican representatives from California and New York over the next four years.

        Will voters in their districts blame them for the tax hike and vote Democrat or will they blame Sacramento/Albany for the tax hike and become even more Republican?

        1. Well those reps generally don’t come from the high-cost cities, so it’s an open question how many R voters will notice the loss of SALT after the doubling of the standard deduction. I have no experience as a middle class familyman in upstate NY, so maybe it is a bigger deal than I imagine.

          1. The doubling of the standard deduction isn’t as big a benefit as you’d think as most of the increase in the standard deduction is offset by the elimination of the personal exemption.

          2. And those reps’ constituents are still paying California/New York high-cost state income/sales tax even if they don’t live in a high-cost city. Though again, they may blame the state democrats instead of the federal republicans for it.

        2. Will voters in their districts blame them for the tax hike and vote Democrat or will they blame Sacramento/Albany for the tax hike and become even more Republican?

          I doubt it. They will likely cheer on the Republicans and use it to demand lowering state taxes.

          Few people will see a tax hike to begin with anyway, since the tax cuts tend to make up for the SALT deduction limits. That is, overall, most of these people will simply not see much of a benefit from the tax cut, and they will blame Democrats and high state taxes for that.

          1. What people will see at some point is an expanding economy thanks to the corporate tax cut. No, they won’t get a refund check but since we all end up paying these taxes it functions as an across the board tax cut. More investment into the real economy and less into the black hole of the Treasury.

            1. “An expanding economy thanks to the corporate tax cut”.

              I’ll believe it when I see it. The 4-6% that the GOP predicts that is…, not the 2-3% rate it was already moving around before Trump was elected.

        3. As a resident of a California district with a GOP rep. I can almost assure you that fiscal conservatives in these districts are under no illusion that Democrats are a viable option. Interestingly, the only person I’ve heard whine about the SALT limit is a flaming liberal.

        4. As someone living in upstate NY, I can tell you I blame NYC for just about everything wrong with the state. I’ve been advocating for many years to kick them out.

          1. Typical fascist.
            Even brags about it.
            Disgraces the legitimate right.
            As fascism alway has.

            1. #HihnsanoSoFragile

              1. #HihnsanoSoFragile

                JAMMING up the ass of fascists and bullies is … FRAGILE!

                HOW DARE WE BACKTALK TO CONSERVATIVE SNOWFLAKES?

                1. ***WHAT***KIND****OF*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** CANCER***PATIENTS?
                  https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                  The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                  1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano and his persecution complex. #HihnsanoSoFragile.

                    1. Did the Jews have a “persecution complex” in Nazi Germany, bully?? Or were they persecuted?

                      ***IS***IT***PERSECUTION***WHEN*** A*** SICK****FUCK*** RIDICULES*** A***CANCER***PATIENT?
                      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072139

                      The authoritarian right. Slapping down backtalk since Hitler and Atilla

                    2. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew. #HihnsanoSoFragile

  12. Also, think about what’s going to happen to the “mainstream” media’s already in the toilet, record low credibility when Joe Sixpack finds out that the scum in the JournoList have been lying to him yet again.

    1. He’ll have to sober up to notice. And some shiny new object will certainly distract him from noticing.

      1. And some shiny new object will certainly distract him from noticing

        He sees the wackiness of you and DD. Brainwashed tools of the authoritarian right.

    2. Equally true for the brainwashed puppets created by Fox, Breitbart, Infowars, et al.
      How crazy are THEY? Domestic Dissident shows WHY he’s a whiny conservafive snowflake here:
      https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7071933

      ABANDON YOUR TRIBAL CAVE, else you too make a public fool of yourself.

      1. I’m not so sure, there is still doubt as to the foolishness of almost everyone on Reason. Doubt for everyone BUT you, we all know you are a fool

        1. DENIES PROOF AGAIN. … the lying asshole who BRAGS about MURDERING people … feeding them into a woodchipper.
          https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_7072007
          One …… sick ….. fuck …. aggressor …. and ……. ………. …….. …………….stalker (sneer)

          1. Dumbfuck Hihnsano thinks mean words on the internet makes him a Jew, stalks people up and down the page. #HihnsanoSoFragile

  13. Democrats are opposed to tax reform because both Republican and Democrat voters will be pleased with the lower tax rates putting more money in their wallets. Not a single Democrat voted for it so they can’t claim it was a bipartisan effort. Taxpayers can recalculate their tax withholding and submit a new W-4 form to their employer or other source of income or leave current deductions in place and enjoy a substantial refund in 2019.

    1. It’s been a hugely long time since I filled out a W-4. Isn’t it based on dependents rather than an actual withholding number? If so, wouldn’t you see an immediate change in your paychecks? Our company uses a payroll processing service, so presumably they would do this automagically…

      I guess I’ll know in three weeks.

      FWIW, there is a lot of joy over this tax bill at the 40 employee private business I work at.

  14. I didn’t get a tax cut at any time during the Obama years. And I suspect that even for those that did, it was awful hard to tell they got one when their insurance premiums more than doubled and their deductible went up to $10,000.

    1. I didn’t get a tax cut at any time during the Obama years.

      You were unemployed?
      Or just a goober?

  15. The unpopularity of the tax cuts will wear off. Right now they are unpopular because … psychology. If you have $10 to split in a group of 10 people and you give $5 to one person and $1 to the other 5, the other 5 will be unhappy even though they are still getting a free $.

    However, when people see that they actually have received a tax cut, they may not be jumping up and down but they will not be as negative about it.

    What *would* be very unpopular is any resulting entitlement/benefit cuts that may be made in the future in order to (attempt) to offset the larger deficits. I don’t think spending cuts to Social Security or Medicare will actually be made by the GOP because they will be too unpopular with likely (older) voters. Cuts to food stamps, aid-to-poor families with dependent children, medicaid for disabled or mentally ill people etc. which are politically possible because the poor and disabled don’t have much political capital with the GOP, will hardly make a dent in the deficit. There just isn’t enough money spent in those areas to make a big difference. Deficits will keep rising.

  16. “Only 4.8 percent of Americans will see a tax increase.”

    Since many, perhaps most, of those tax increases will occur in blue states and cities that soak their citizens, the Republicans are on sure ground because the enormously high local taxes in Democrat controlled locales will disproportionately affect the Dems. How many of these increases are because of changes in SALT (State and Local Taxes) deductions?

    So where’s the problem? The blue states are already talking about reducing taxes and expenditures…

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