But What Does Star Wars *MEAN*?

All culture is participatory culture, and none more so than Star Wars. A debate hotter than the twin suns of Tatooine.

Going to see the new Star Wars flick this weekend (read Kurt Loder's review here)? Or do you hate the Star Wars universe and can't figure out what the hell is wrong with all those people?

Either way, you'll want to watch this debate about the cultural meaning of Stars Wars and featuring Reason's Peter Suderman, Washington Free Beacon's Sonny Bunch, and The Washington Post's Alyssa Rosenberg. It dates from December 2015 and took place as Rogue One debuted. "All culture is participatory culture," I note at the outset in my role as moderator, and Star Wars has created the very template by which consumers create individualized meaning in their lives out of mass-produced media.

For more Reason coverage of Star Wars over the years, go here.

Comments

[BestUsedCarSales]

Did you embed a Facebook link? Interesting. I haven't seen that before

[Hugh Akston]

Most of the content that BUCS looks for on the internet violates facebook's terms of service.

[Citizen X - #6]

The meaning of the phrase "participatory culture" changes drastically in the context of BUCS.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I spend a lot of time browsing Ebay, if you know what I mean.

[Citizen X - #6]

True fact: someone in Ebay's marketing department is (or used to be) an Achewood fan. I got a banner ad on ebay.com back in 2007 that featured Airwolf as one of the things you could buy.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Sad to see he wasn't bold enough to post Keith Moon's head.

[Citizen X - #6]

Don't act like you don't know that Airwolf can go faster than any jet.

[Citizen X - #6]

Anyway, i guess i'm trying to brag that i've apparently got access to Ebay Platinum, so let me know if you're in the market for the world's biggest laser.

[Crusty Juggler]

Stringfellow Hawke played a mean cello.

[Sevo]

Pretty sure it means a lot of people made a lot of money providing entertainment for a whole bunch more people.

[Mickey Rat]

I thougbt Star Wars was just supposed to a fun adventure tale with excellent special effects.

[$park? leftist poser]

Everything has to mean something these days. That's what happens when English majors take over the world.

[SQRLSY One]

You missed the part where Darth Vader is a Christ figure and symbolically, metaphorically explains how and why the imminent Singularity means that antifactual intelligence will soon bring about so many changes, that our shit won't stink any more! (Politicians excluded, of course... "Star Wars" knows that there's a sharp limit to the ability of the viewers to "temporarily suspend their disbeliefs". Politician shit has always stunk, and always will.)

[mad.casual]

I predict a burnout and eventual collapse well before the next 4 movies are finished. You heard it here first.

IMO, even for this movie, the press coverage feels very presumptuously supportive, like Hillary's presidential campaign. Of course you're going to go see it, it's the next one in the franchise and only deplorables don't like Star Wars.

[I can't even]

Probably - It's a cash-cow that Disney will milk dry for a few years. Like the endless super-hero movies, it's already getting old.

[Hugh Akston]

If only there were some way to measure the success/popularity of the franchise. Until someone comes up with such an innovation, it's probably fair to project your own views onto the remaining few billion potential viewers.

[mad.casual]

Until someone comes up with such an innovation, it's probably fair to project your own views onto the remaining few billion potential viewers.

I'll see your innovation and raise you an intervening state apparatus specifically crafted to project views on any such innovation you can come up with. Good luck measuring absolute/relative success with that hot mess!

But seriously, the people who fell in love with the Han Solo who shot first are not exactly or at all the same people falling in love with female Jedi and black Stormtroopers. The only reason one links to the other in any real way is because Disney, by government-backed right of ownership, tells us so... usually sometimes... kinda-sorta.

[creech]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a Godfather IV with Michael's kid as the new don, battling Russian Mafia and Hispanic gangs trying to take over their turf.

[BestUsedCarSales]

There was a Godfather video game where you took over Miami. It was pretty fun.

[CE]

Not as much fun as GTA: Vice City.

[BestUsedCarSales]

No, it was not as good as GTA:VC.

[Hank Phillips]

Or the looters could relegalize acid, and we'd get back the individualistic, anti-tax, pro-free-market Star Wars unpolluted by holy rollers and Altrurian Ewoks.

[Tony]

I believe the message is: good is good, because evil is dumb. But I haven't seen the new one.

[Mickey Rat]

"The more you squeeze your fist, the more worlds will slip between your fingers" does not quite resonate with your politics, does it?

[CE]

Hard to collect much tax revenue when your go-to move is to destroy planets.

[The Last American Hero]

Not to pick nits, but that wasn't the go to move. The plan was actually quite clear.

1. Blow up Alderaan to let people know they should pay their taxes.
2. Blow up Yavin to let people know what happens if you resist.
3. Profit.

[Tony]

What did the emperor want, after all? A bigger house? Seems like a ridiculous amount of effort to scratch a pointless little psychological itch.

[Citizen X - #6]

Often, power is its own reward.

[lap83]

I like Rian Johnson's work but I'm sick to death of all movie franchises

[BestUsedCarSales]

I think I'm just sick of Disney. All these franchises I've grown sick of are Disney.

I think I really don't like them. They do all this shiny, professionally made works that are all soulless and bland.

[Citizen X - #6]

Soulless and bland = no on-screen sexual penetration

[BestUsedCarSales]

More like, I don't know. No real feeling, no real viewpoint on stuff. No edge.

Like The Secret of NIHM or The Land Before Time had something, had some feeling. Or certainly Bakshi, Coonskin certainly was not a Disney production.

I don't know. It's not impossible for a big company to produce good stuff. I love quite a few big action films, but I think Disney is kind of bland.

[Citizen X - #6]

No edging. Got it.

[BestUsedCarSales]

There's nothing inherently evil about not edging. It's just a person denying themselves of a better world.

[lap83]

The first one is a classic but I don't know if you were unlucky enough to watch any of the 5,842 Land Before Time sequels. They were terrible (my little sister saw them all) The problem is franchisitization (?) We need to ban it. For the children.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Yeah, sadly every single one was done outside of the original studio. They are pretty bad. The Secret of NIMH sequel was pretty terrible as well. So was the All Dogs Go To Heaven sequel. There's a whole world of weird direct to video cartoon sequels out there. It's pretty impressive in how bad it is.

But quite a few of the films by Don Bluth are some of my favorite cartoons.

[lap83]

Wow, correction... apparently she hasn't seen them all. She is now a young adult, but they're still releasing them. Those monsters.

[BestUsedCarSales]

They are astonishingly bad. At least, like, 10 was. I think they're up to 15 or something now. Luckily I don't take care of children anymore.

Some of those kids shows are fun though. I used to have to watch Veggie Tales when babysitting for this Christian family, those were pretty good.

[CE]

Just compare the death matches in Batman v. Superman to the friendly games of patty-cake in Captain America: Civil War. Snyder is making artistic movies, but people prefer fluff.

[mad.casual]

Just compare the death matches in Batman v. Superman to the friendly games of patty-cake in Captain America: Civil War. Snyder is making artistic movies, but people prefer fluff.

AHAHAHAHAHA *inhales deeply* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Call me back when Snyder or anybody in charge of another franchise invents/reboots a villain that causes Affleck, Ruffalo, or Evans to kill themselves. Shit, even if we lower the bar to Keaton and Burton's batman Snyder's work looks pathetic. Hell, Favreau and Downey Jr.'s Ironman is better art than what Snyder is attempting to do.

If you didn't forget a /sarc tag, this is embarrassing.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I specifically didn't mention the WB films as bland because they are always so bad as to not even rise to the level of bland.

[H. Farnham]

I'm convinced that it's the film score that makes Land Before Time so good. James Horner did an amazing job. I could "watch" that whole movie with my eyes closed and still be enthralled.

[Crusty Juggler]

The MCU was bland before Disney.

[BestUsedCarSales]

So Iron Man 1 and the Incredible Hulk were bland.

[Crusty Juggler]

I like the first Iron Man.

[BestUsedCarSales]

My point was those are the only two pre-Disney MCU films I think. This rapid fire production of the films is probably more the Disney side of if.

[Crusty Juggler]

I know. For some reason I thought Disney just bought Marvel - I was wrong - and then I tried to change the subject. Gosh.

[BestUsedCarSales]

It's okay. Marvel is not a very competent company anyway. Dumb shit would have happened with MCU regardless of Disney acquiring or not.

[lap83]

you need to Let It Go

[BestUsedCarSales]

That was a pretty impressive phenomenon. Even if I didn't really care for it.

I'm not one of those guys who gets offended that people like these things. I just don't get it myself.

[mad.casual]

They do all this shiny, professionally made works that are all soulless and bland.

We share a brainwave on this. IMO, it's very Gernsback Continuum-y. Like we're witnessing the first-run of this generation's 'Raygun Gothic'.

I can only assume we're not alone and the rise of internet porn is the result of people needing to scrub this crap off their psyche.

[Crusty Juggler]

And they are only going to get worse.

[Crusty Juggler]

ither way, you'll want to watch this debate about the cultural meaning of Stars Wars and featuring Reason's Peter Suderman, Washington Free Beacon's Sonny Bunch, and The Washington Post's Alyssa Rosenberg

One a scale of sports nerd to music nerd, where do film nerds rank on the nerd scale?

I saw higher than beer nerds, but lower then gun nerds.

Your thoughts?

[Citizen X - #6]

Higher than music nerds, actually, but lower than politics nerds.

[Crusty Juggler]

Political nerds may be the worst of the nerd class.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Agreed. They should be stripped of their rights.

[Rat on a train]

What about geeks?

[Tony]

^ Geek vs. nerd nerd

[Rat on a train]

I bet you prefer Emacs.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Wow, please keep those kinds of statements to yourself. That's a hate crime in certain parts of the country.

[Tony]

I'm guessing this is a computer geek thing.

[Hank Phillips]

Star Wars means Magnitudes of Order; ask Nick.

[Rich]

All culture is participatory culture,

particularly appropriated culture.

[Rat on a train]

Strategic Defense Initiative?

[CE]

My takeaways from Star Wars:

1. Swords are cooler than blasters (but don't bring a saber to a blaster fight).
2. Americans love smugglers (always have).
3. The Empire is the bad guys (unless we're the Empire).
4. Jedi mind tricks are cool (unless Trump uses them to get elected).
5. Making the droids clunky makes it easier to sell cheap toy robots that look like them.
6. People like sequels better than prequels.
7. Storm Troopers are among the most unnecessarily feared "elite" troops of all time (right up there with the Orcs.)

[BestUsedCarSales]

The Clone Wars cartoon showed Storm Troopers them to be total badasses. 🙁

[mad.casual]

7. Storm Troopers are among the most unnecessarily feared "elite" troops of all time (right up there with the Orcs.)

Were Storm Troopers ever really feared for their eliteness? They're never really or generally dominant or even competent in a 1-on-1 or even 2- or 3-on-1 situation and they aren't generally feared on an individual level. I always feared them in the same way I feared a zombie hoard. You've only got so many weapons and so much ammo to face down a potentially unending zombie hoard. An endless zombie horde with blasters... lead by a Dark Lord.

[The Last American Hero]

When were orcs intended to be elite?

[BestUsedCarSales]

He probably meant the Uruk Hai.

[Zeb]

Well, obviously.

[Stormy Dragon]

But What Does Star Wars *MEAN*?

Meaning isn't intrinsic. What does Star Wars mean to whom?

[Zeb]

Word.

[Alan Vanneman]

"It dates from December 2015 ..." Two-year-old talking heads? I'm on it!

[Citizen X - #6]

BEST HE*DS EVAH!