Senate Tax Reform Will Ditch Individual Mandate, CNN Looks at Sexual Harassment in Congress, and More Republicans Want Moore to Go: P.M. Links

• 

  Jeff Malet Photography/Newscom

  In House testimony today, Attorney General Jeff Sessions pushed back on demands for a special counsel to investigate alleged Clinton campaign misdeeds.

• The Senate reportedly plans to include repeal of Obamacare's individual mandate in its tax reform proposal.

• CNN looks at sexual harassment in Congress.

• More and more Republicans want no more of Moore.

• We're back, baby! The U.S. leads the world in oil and gas production.

Comments

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

"Senate Tax Reform Will Ditch Individual Mandate"
Sure

[BestUsedCarSales]

No matter what they do with the individual mandate, we are still stuck with the precedent of it being declared legal. I can only imagine what will continue to be justified under that reading of the commerce clause.

[Juice]

Exactly.

[loveconstitution1789]

With Gorsuch and a real conservative replacement for Kennedy and a conservative replacement for Ruth Gingsburg should tip the court enough toward the Constitution that another case of being forced to buy something should be shot down.

[Juice]

They already shot it down on Commerce Clause grounds. And the penaltax justification only came from 1 justice, so it's not really a majority opinion and not very solid "precedent." It could easily be overturned. If they want it.

[BestUsedCarSales]

And I can only hope they do. But I tend to not hold my breath about Government rolling things back. Hopefully something of this nature can come before the court again though and roll it back.

[Calidissident]

Kennedy was in the dissent on that case.

[Agammamon]

Except it won't be. Stare Decisis is a powerful force in the Supreme Court. It would have to be something *maaaaaajor* for them to reverse an earlier decision like that.

When they've done it in the past, usually its taken decades and a whole new court just to hear the issue again.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

Is that what happened? They pushed Obamacare through as a tax citing the commerce clause, making it a Congress issue to bypass states rights?

Forgive my ignorance, on certain issues my eyes glaze over because:

1) I have no power so why get all super invested on something I can't control (the stoic in me)
2) They are coming to take my money and I can't do anything about it but fork it over (see 1)

[NotAnotherSkippy]

No, Roberts turned it into a tax after ruling that it wasn't a tax and hence they could rule on it because it didn't violate the anti-injunction law. Dizzy yet?

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

Spinnin'

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Enjoying your final respite until the snow comes? I scalped most of my perennials on Sunday.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

Oh I've become quite the homebody. Too much time indoors as it is, the snow won't be changing much there. I'll still curse the F out of it when necessary tho.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

My kid should finally be old enough to enjoy it. Won't be enough to make up for shitty commutes but at least it's something.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

That'll be fun man. Winter is a magical time for a child, endless adventure.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Unless I remembering incorrectly, I believe that the Individual Mandate, not necessarily Obamacare as a whole, was justified under the commerce clause. This was decided in the supreme court back when Obamacare first took hold.

[Juice]

You are remembering incorrectly. 4 justices said that it was constitutional under the commerce clause and 4 said it wasn't. 1 said that it's ok if it's a tax and it's "not too much."

[BYODB]

The mandate was interpreted into a tax, since the SC admitted point blank that such a penalty for refusing to engage in commerce would not be constitutional.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Alright, I will stand corrected then. I hope my confusion on that weird ruling is at least understandable, if not correct.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

See above. I wouldn't fault anyone for being confused by the logic Roberts used.

[BYODB]

I'm still confused about it, since I didn't think reinterpreting legislation from the bench was constitutional either.

[Juice]

since the SC admitted point blank that such a penalty for refusing to engage in commerce would not be constitutional

4 justices anyway. The other 4 said that's it's hunky dory.

[BYODB]

True, I suppose it would be more accurate to say they split with Roberts deciding that just the tip wasn't enough.

[BestUsedCarSales]

What is the supposed check on SC decisions anyway? It's not just that we could amend the constitution is it?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Or congress passes a specific law like the Religious Freedom Act. Or impeachment and removal.

[Mickey Rat]

Because the Obama administration made some promises about not imposing new taxes on low income people, they did not want it classified as a tax. Classifying it as a penalty ran into due process issued

[Mickey Rat]

Which is why Roberts went back to it being a tax (since tax assessments are not subject to due process standards in the same way an outright penalty). Though I believe the way the ACA was passed make any new taxes under it legally dubious. The entire thing was an exercise for Roberts to determine how to keep it while ignoring the legal chicanery and ignoring the laws about how legislation is created and implemented, because Roberts was spooked by Obama threatening SCOTUS in the State of the Union after Citizens United.

[Libertarian]

Rand Paul must have been working from home. This was his tweet today:

Today I am announcing my intention to amend the Senate tax bill to repeal the individual mandate and provide bigger tax cuts for middle income taxpayers.

The mandate repeal is a promise we all made and we should keep. It also allows an additional $300 billion+ in tax cuts.
11:24 AM - Nov 14, 2017

Schumer is already whining about the gop inserting healthcare into a tax bill, but the SC already ruled the mandate a tax. Hahahahaha.

[BestUsedCarSales]

What's his announced spending cuts to accommodate this?

[CE]

The mandate.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

But the value of the cuts is overstated because it's based on CBO's magical thinking about how effective it is.

[loveconstitution1789]

Fucking 'n' th D chess, even with some broken ribs.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

He's the best.

[Juice]

I love all the replies. "You're taking away healthcare from 13 million Americans!"

No, he's no longer forcing them to buy an overpriced product they don't want and can't afford.

[BYODB]

When not forcing someone to buy something is the same as taking it away? Oof. This is what passes for logic and reason these days.

[BestUsedCarSales]

It's a sad example where the means do not matter. More people are insured, therefore it is good. That it is done at gunpoint does not change that fact.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

Bucs with the bullseye.

[BYODB]

Indeed, and it's explicitly because they needed those bodies to even pretend like such an arrangement of law would create a good outcome. They had to steal their money to make the boat sink slower.

Frankly, it's become clear that either the ends don't matter to them either or their true ends aren't what they say.

I'm betting that for the 'leaders' it's the second bit, and for the 'followers' it's the first bit.

[BestUsedCarSales]

One thing is the problem that many are trying to solve isn't to actually help people. For many people it is simply to feel better about themselves. People will vote for things that sound good, and that they can rationalize as good and then have less concern for the results. In particular, because for much of the population the impact never effects their life very much.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

And this is born the american welfare state. I'll give the europeans for being a little more honest and making the middle class pay for their goodies, but even there their appetite for spending exceeds their means.

[buddhastalin]

Health "insurance" is not health care. Just ask all those California Medicaid recipients who can't get doctor appointments because no doctor wants to be paid shit for their services.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

[Gbob]

Hell yeah!

[Fist of Etiquette]

More and more Republicans want no more of Moore.

Outstanding. Worth the scant links.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

Hi.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

"More and more Republicans want no more of Moore."
Would you?

[BestUsedCarSales]

*Googles Thomas Moore*

Would.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

O.....k then.
*wanders off into traffic*

[Fist of Etiquette]

U.S. leads world in oil and gas production.

AND consumption, I hope.

[CE]

All without Romney's "Apollo program for energy".

[BestUsedCarSales]

We're back baby! U.S. leads world in oil and gas production.

I'm really just happy that you're happy Christian.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

The kid needs a win.

[BestUsedCarSales]

My doubts about his libertarianism vanished as I watch his glee at our nations fossil fuel production. God speed... son.

[Tom Bombadil]

I suspect the kid wrote that with his sarcasm pen.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Neither new or news:

The US Energy Information Administration estimated that the US became the world's top petroleum and natural gas producer in 2012.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Just let my boy have this. Why do you have to shit in the punch bowl?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

It's closer than the toilet and I have IBD?

[BestUsedCarSales]

You're one of those guys who has piss bottles next to his desk, aren't you?

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

I had a piss bottle when I broke my femur. Pissing in bed (outside of childhood) is a luxury few will ever experience.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

I do have two partial water bottles in my office (and a two pack of oats n honey granola bars) on case of the zombie apocalypse. There are also some petrified gumballs in my darth vader dispenser that can probably be used against werewolves.

[MarkLastname]

I don't think the zombies will care if you pee in the potted plants.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Senate reportedly plans to include repeal of Obamacare's individual mandate in its tax reform proposal.

WHAT? You can't do that! Obamacare has nothing to do with taxes.

[loveconstitution1789]

I am being forced to care about that!

[Fist of Etiquette]

...Attorney General Jeff Sessions pushed back on demands for a special counsel to investigation alleged Clinton Campaign misdeeds.

The boss ain't gonna be too happy with that.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

In House testimony today, Attorney General Jeff Sessions pushed back on demands for a special counsel to investigation alleged Clinton Campaign misdeeds.

My head is spinning.

[loveconstitution1789]

He's just playing coy.

The DOJ/FBI will reinvestigate Hillary and recommend indictment the next time the lefties are in full outrage mode about some other TDS nonsense.

[EscherEnigma]

Doubtful. Banging the "Clinton!" drum riles up the base, but the further we get from the election, the more it'll drive independents away.

[MarkLastname]

Because independents are famously in love with Clinton.

[Tony]

Because that's definitely how the United States justice department should work.

[CE]

Gotta keep some powder dry for 2020.

[Fist of Etiquette]

CNN looks at sexual harassment in Congress.

And jerks off.

[Aloysious]

fta:

In conversations with CNN, multiple women pointed to the elevators on Capitol Hill as a place where staff and members prey on women and say they have been advised to avoid riding alone with men if possible.

Ban elevators.

[CE]

They call it "the Packwood Technique" in DC.

[Juice]

You said pack wood. heh heh heh heh heh /beavis

[BYODB]

If anything, that advice seems to be something the men would be wise to pay attention to. It's their careers on the line, whereas it's a potential payout for her.

Pence is wise beyond his years.

[MarkLastname]

The lack of specific allegations is telling.

[Bra Ket]

we have corroboration in that multiple people heard the rumor.

[Entropy Drehmaschine Void]

Fuckin' Britches!

Will somebody smack the boy upside the head with some Alt-Text?

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

Sugar britches would be a better nickname.

[Entropy Drehmaschine Void]

Ain't nuthin' sweet 'bout suck-ass links.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

You guys don't know how good you have it over here, and I don't either.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

In House testimony today, Attorney General Jeff Sessions pushed back on demands for a special counsel to investigation alleged Clinton Campaign misdeeds

A year of Trump and it honestly feels like a single day has yet to pass.

[BYODB]

Yeah, it's pretty amazing how lock-step virtually the entire media establishment has been for an entire calendar year.

We're still talking about if Russia hacked the election a year ago. How long would such an investigation take? Just ask Mueller, I guess, but I still don't know how he intends to question himself over his own involvement in the case.

[EscherEnigma]

How long would such an investigation take?
Based on Benghazi, seven different investigations and four years.

[BYODB]

Fair point, I suppose, although if memory serves there was never a Special Council for any of those Obama era scandals. At least not one I can recall, and certainly not one that took a full year to investigate.

[loveconstitution1789]

Uh oh: Five killed, 10 hospitalized in Rancho Tehama, California shooting.
I guess Nancy Pelosi will be in the media discussing how Commifornia strictest gun control measure in the USA are preventing gun violence. Shooter evidently is an ex-felon who would have been bared from possessing firearms.

[gaoxiaen]

+1 right to bare arms

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

We're back baby! U.S. leads world in oil and gas production.

[Doesn't know what to say -- kneels]

[Rebel Scum]

We're back, baby! The U.S. leads the world in oil and gas production.

#Winning #MAGA

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

CNN Looks at Sexual Harassment in Congress

Thank god we can finally stop looking at Hollywood.

[loveconstitution1789]

We're back, baby! The U.S. leads the world in oil and gas production.
USA USA USA!

[Libertarian]

"CNN looks at sexual harassment in Congress."

Oh, Congress, you're incorrigible! I remember the page fiasco from the 80s.

[Stormy Dragon]

The U.S. leads the world in oil and gas production.

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE POOR COAL MINERS!

[EscherEnigma]

Only when pandering for votes.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Or sneering at their inferiors.

[gaoxiaen]

Send more oxycodone.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Seattle city council: #MeToo

Seattle will begin taxing operators of short-term rentals, such as those listed on Airbnb, the City Council decided Monday.

[BestUsedCarSales]

So brave.

[Griffin3]

In unrelated news, more AirBnB rentals are being transacted using Bitcoin and email anonymizers. City inspectors are stymied because they can't be arsed to actually travel to the houses, and thus are forced to start asset foreclosure proceedings on every property not owned by a council member.

[Rebel Scum]

In House testimony today, Attorney General Jeff Sessions pushed back on demands for a special counsel to investigate alleged Clinton campaign misdeeds.

Laws are for little people.

[chemjeff]

"More and more Republicans want no more of Moore."

Revised Moore's Law:

The number of sexual misconduct/assault allegations doubles every news cycle

[NotAnotherSkippy]

At least this is a law that has an unlimited scaling future unlike that old, broken transistor thingie.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Might be a good thing. Within 20 news cycles a politician will have to spend all of their time fucking just to keep up. Might lead to some nice gridlock.

[Red Tony]

So what, Crusty's running for office now?

[John]

No. It is the amount of political hypocrisy doubles every news cycle.

[Tony]

You are really into defending this vile creature huh.

[Philadelphia Collins]

Enough about Ted Kennedy.

[Griffin3]

LOLOLOL! Stop, I'm trying to work here!

[Tony]

At least pick someone original to whatabout about, Jesus.

[Rebel Scum]

CNN looks at sexual harassment in Congress.

And finds that only people wit an R next to their name are guilty.

[Rebel Scum]

The Senate reportedly plans to include repeal of Obamacare's individual mandate in its tax reform proposal.

The ACA then crashes. Team Red is blamed. Here we come socialized healthcare.

[chemjeff]

The Senate reportedly plans to include repeal of Obamacare's individual mandate in its tax reform proposal.

Huh. So evidently, repealing the mandate, according to government accounting logic, "saves the government money" because fewer people will be forced to get health insurance, they will drop coverage, and government spends less on subsidized health insurance.

I guess that's one way to reduce the welfare state. A very convoluted one.

[John]

Stop forcing people to participate in welfare programs is one pretty direct way to reduce the welfare state.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Indeed. But it's almost certainly overstated in value.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I'm usually hesitant about CBO reports.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

APOSTASY! The stimulus worked! 18MM signed up for barrycare this year!

[BestUsedCarSales]

It's not an Apostate. I'm not actually a democrat, no matter how much some people insinuate I am.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Guess I shoulda used a /sarc tag...

[BestUsedCarSales]

Me too, I actually am a lefty and a communist.

[John]

P{robably so.

[Jerryskids]

CNN looks at sexual harassment in Congress.

And now I have my doubts that Congress even exists.

[Tony]

"The U.S. leads the world in oil and gas production."

Oh God nobody tell Trump. Or wait, yes, someone tell him and that this means he won.

[Philadelphia Collins]

He accepted the election results. What more do you want?

[Tony]

Did he?

[Sevo]

Yes, he did Tony. And one day, you'll grow up, too!

[Stormy Dragon]

This does make Moore's support for transgender bathroom bills make sense at least. He knows what HE'D do if he were allowed to go into the women's restroom and is just assuming that everyone else would do the same thing.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Women are probably sinning up in there. Sinning all over each other.

[nohakhan]

Cleaning company in Al-Kharj
We know that cleaning is not an easy task, but we are now doing a cleaning job. Cleaning company Banc offers all new and modern methods of cleaning. A cleaning company in Bannak depends on many modern workers and machines that facilitate cleaning. We can say that we are the only one but with all confidence we say we are the best, God willing, cleaning is an absolute necessity to get a wonderful home and distinctive and healthy also.???? ????? ???????
???? ????? ??????

[nohakhan]

Cleaning company in Al-Kharj
We know that cleaning is not an easy task, but we are now doing a cleaning job. Cleaning company Banc offers all new and modern methods of cleaning. A cleaning company in Bannak depends on many modern workers and machines that facilitate cleaning. We can say that we are the only one but with all confidence we say we are the best, God willing, cleaning is an absolute necessity to get a wonderful home and distinctive and healthy also.???? ????? ?????? ??????

[Griffin3]

What combination of cosmic forces have led someone to believe that the way to riches is to spam THIS place with ads in ARABIC for CLEANING SERVICES???

Is this an effective way to scam in any corner of the known multiverse?

[Red Tony]

The sad thing is it's in English, not Arabic, but for a service ostensibly in the Arab world.

I mean, what's up with that? Is Reason getting a lot of hits from the Middle East? Is it the leading source for American news over in Yemen?

[BestUsedCarSales]

Well, that might just be that the hostname must be in ascii characters. The path name has less restriction than that as it's more or less a file path for a remove server.

[Tony]

Because some of you people seem to need this before you are capable of condemning an accused child predator, I will acknowledge that I agree with pretty much every word of this:

I Believe Juanita

[Bra Ket]

I'm impressed how that author packed nine paragraphs of anti-republican narrative and conspiracies around two or three sentences relevant to the actual title.

[Tony]

It's important to the attitude we have about the Clinton accusations. Republicans have muddied the waters so much with so much false bullshit, it's kind of hard to know if anything real actually floats to the surface.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

That's precious. Remind me, were the accusations against Clinton before or after the accusations against Moore? What decade was Chappaquiddick again? But that's so tired and old. Why, it's Mary Jo's fault for not being a better swimmer.

[Tony]

If I concede that Democrats have horrible people among their ranks, does that make Roy Moore not a child molester?

[Sevo]

"If I concede that Democrats have horrible people among their ranks, does that make Roy Moore not a child molester?"

You should stop drinking before you post. That is pathetic.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Now tell me which you're not going to vote for. Tell me which you will demand resign. None? How convenient.

[gaoxiaen]

Looking at that picture, I can only say that it's not a very good likeness of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

[MarkLastname]

I do t believe Juanita. Not that I disbelieve her, but her accusation alone isn't enough to warrant a firm conclusion.

It's amusing that the 'pro-science' crowd has religiously adopted the idea that female humans are magically incapable of error or dishonesty. People lie; credulity is not only warranted, but necessitated.

Still, would your belief that Bill was a rapist have stopped you from supporting him agaist pretty much any Republican? If not, what ground do you have for criticizing a Republican for saying "I'll support this piece of shot because, as far as policies go, the ends justify the means." (Note, to pre-empt your pathological dishonesty, I don't support Roy Moore, as I've made clear repeatedly; not that you won't lie anyway)

[NotAnotherSkippy]

Well he would have had to believe it at the time, but that would have been inconvenient. Now it's not inconvenient.

[Tony]

Well she's a Trump-supporting dingbat and the only time she ever went under oath on the matter she said it wasn't true, but I was kind of just trying to get the pedo brigade to stop bringing up Clinton every time Roy Moore is the subject of discussion.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

It is pretty inconvenient when forced to play by the same rules.

[MarkLastname]

So, basically, at any given moment, you'll pretend to believe whatever is immediately convenient? Fascinating approach to epistemology.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Man, that article is all over the place.

[Bra Ket]

A better title would be "we need to finally throw Clinton under the bus for the good of the cause".

[NotAnotherSkippy]

And it only took you 25 years to come to that conclusion. Presumably you'll be ok if Moore supporters only take 10...

[Tony]

Well I was the age of one of Roy Moore's dates back then.

[NotAnotherSkippy]

So you believed her in the '96 election then and voted appropriately, right?

[Tony]

As I said, I wasn't old enough to vote, and I happened to be a rather fervent anti-Clinton Republican at the time.

[Sevo]

And the hag was an epiphany!
We're to believe that?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

If you were 14 in 92 you were 18 in 96. There's a less than 2 month window where that isn't true. Or did you lie about how old you were in 92?

[Tony]

The first presidential election I was eligible to vote in was 2004. I forget how old I am.