Cultural Appropriation Means Never Having to Say You're Sari
Kennedy wears Indian garb, gives anti-cultural appropriators a mass coronary
Among the more ridiculous ideas that has emerged from the modern left is "cultural appropriation" which considers it racism for one culture to

borrow elements from other cultures. They have slammed Katy Perry for sporting cornrows, white restaurant owners for cooking ethnic cuisine, and of course, libertarian novelist Lionel Shriver for wearing a sombrero.
Shriver's crusade is something of a cause celebre at Reason, which hosted an event in New York in September where guests were invited to dress cutout Shriver dolls in various costumes. This sent the joyless editors at The New Republic into paroxysms of self-righteous rage.
And if they were watching the Kennedy show last night, their pursed lips would have surely melded never to come undone as Kennedy and I engaged in some shameless mutual cultural appropriation. She stepped out of her black dress and donned my red Indian sari—with traditional jewelry and a bindi to boot. I stepped out of my sari and into a black pantsuit.
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libertarian novelist Lionel Shriver for wearing a sombrero.
I don't think libertarian is the right word. Just that our causes aligned here.
From her wiki
She expressed criticism of the American health system in an interview in May 2010 while at the Sydney Writers' Festival in Australia, in which she said she was "exasperated with the way that medical matters were run in my country" and considers that she is taking "my life in my hands. Most of all I take my bank account in my hands because if I take a wrong turn on my bike and get run over by a taxi, I could lose everything I have."[19][20] She is a patron of UK population growth rate concern group Population Matters.[21] She was interviewed on Newsnight on BBC Two (on British television) the night of December 17, 2012, questioned about the issue of whether the United States should change gun control laws after the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.[22]
This is what passes for "Libertarian" to Reason.
This is what passes for "Libertarian" to ReasonShikha.
Fixed.
But Shikha is what passes for a Libertarian to Reason. I think the transitive principle is applicable here.
It is and it isn't, bruh. It is and it isn't.
The transitive property applies to equality. Are you saying that libertarian and Reason are equivalent? Surely not.
They are all equally Libertarian.
What do you care how libertarian anyone is, you've gone on more tirades against free markets than Noam Chomsky.
Understanding how markets work and not seeing them as a magic machine that brings unicorns to all is not in any way being against free markets.
Spoken like a true progressive. Wanting the government to tell people what they can buy and for how much = anti-market. Throw in an accusation and f 'free market fundamentalism' and you could be Robert Reich.
Keep burning that straw though.
Damn political appropriation!
"She stepped out of her black dress and donned my red Indian sari?with traditional jewelry and a bindi to boot. I stepped out of my sari and into a black pantsuit."
Spoiler alert - by the time the video clip begins they've already put on their new clothes.
Disappointing
They had me at "stepped out of her black dress". And then, well, darn. Where do I go to get my money back?
"Among the more ridiculous ideas that has emerged from the modern left is "cultural appropriation" "
It may well be thee most ridiculous idea from the left, but it is really hard to pick just one for that crown. Never apologize.
The cultural appropriation bar in the video is levelled right at Dalmia's breasts.
Just an observation.
This is an awesome segment. But I always think that the only people that see something like this are the people that already agree.
I'm dearly hoping for some gnashing of teeth and pained wailing from progressives as a result of this. I fear my hope may not come to fruition.
I don't know a single person, liberal or otherwise, who doesn't think this issue is ridiculous.
Every conservative I've ever talked to still thinks Hillary did Benghazi and that it was worse than the holocaust, however.
You must be talking to a very tiny subset of conservatives.
Most do think Behghazi was serious, however. Not that they think Hillary personally ordered the deaths of the diplomats, but just that she was tried to pass off blame to a youtube video when she was the one on watch at the state department.
See what I mean?
It was about the video, actually. It was about the fucking video. So were many other conflagrations that happened at the same time.
Even if it wasn't, who gives a shit? It was all about a concerted cynical political effort to attack Obama and Hillary over something 1/1,000,000th as bad as the stuff Bush caused.
It was about the video, actually. It was about the fucking video. So were many other conflagrations that happened at the same time.
No, it wasn't. By their own claims and/or admissions it wasn't. The only way you believe it was the video is if you believe a lie or a falsehood.
I don't agree with what Bush did. That still means what Clinton did, especially considering the relative timeliness with which they called her out for it, wasn't right.
Turns out it was. But again, what does it matter? Her getting that wrong is such a great fucking crime... because?
Because you were told to think so by fat propagandists, that's why.
It remains unfuckingbelievable.
A video that had -- at the time of the attack -- only a few clicks? That one? The one Hillary specifically told the Egyptian PM had nothing to do with the attack?
You're either a lying shitweasel or a pathetically stupid one.
Tony is both.
Reading the Reason comment section always make it absolutely clear why the top related Google searches for Reason are Breitbart and Fox News.
Nope.
Forget it, it's Tonytown.
I wish y'all would just ignore him. His nastiness and pathetic, lying trolling isn't worth wasting your time over.
That link doesn't do what you think it does.
We are not talking about Booosh did. We are talking about what Hillary did.
She was responsible for the Ambassador and his protection detail and her mistakes allowed those guys to die.
On to Booosh. He is one of the worst presidents, since he created a disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan based on lies. Obama is one of the worst presidents too, since he continued in the Iraq and Afghanistan carnage plus added in Libya, Syria, Yemen, and Niger.
Glad we agree that Obama and Hillary did bad stuff as well as Booosh.
Foisting off State Department responsibility to a fucking video was the problem. Doesn't matter what the proximal cause of the riot was, the fact remains that the State Department did nothing when the shit hit the fan. And Hillary was at the wheel when it happened.
This a trait she shares with her husband, she avoid taking leadership responsibility for positions they hold. It's not about whether Hillary was personally at fault for the shit going down, it's about refusing to accept the responsibility of being the head of the State Department.
Truman: "The Buck Stops Here"
Clinton [either]: "Wut? The buck never got here! Not my fault!"
Even if it wasn't, who gives a shit?
Right, I mean, what difference, at this point, does it make?
Indeed. 100% accurate. These four dead Americans have been more mourned over than 20 dead schoolchidren a zillion times over.
Not because you care about them. Not one little bit. But because you're horrible people who let fat men on the TV do your thinking for you.
Unlike you Tony, I care about dead innocent school kids and dead government workers just doing their jobs who had the rug pulled out from under them.
Unlike you, I don't use dead school kids to push unconstitutional gun grabbing and I don't let criminal behavior by people like Hillary be forgotten. Although, Hillary errors in Libya were probably not criminal, she did violate federal law for mishandling classified information.
I bet you and buttplug are the only regular readers here who watch political shows.
I don't know a single racist, but I do know a lot of people who are way more frequently butthurt over Hillary Clinton losing than they are about dead kids.
I mean, really, you can stop pretending you care about kids, too. It's like global warming: you know you're not saving the planet, you just enjoy the excuse for bitching.
just that she was tried to pass off blame to a youtube video when she was the one on watch at the state department.
Not tried, did and she was asleep, after being nudged or roused more than once, rather than on watch.
Remember when it first came out that Anthony Weiner was sexting uncontrollably and he claimed his phone got hacked? I'm sure there are some who believe there was more to the Benghazi story than just ineptitude. Most just wanted an admission that the equivalent of "Uh... my phone was hacked!" was a lie. Especially since her capability with email also pointed to gross ineptitude.
Well there were 40 fucking hearings about it. And you're still not satisfied.
How many hearings should their be about Trump's Russian collusion? As many, more, or fewer?
We won't be satisfied until Hillary is indicted for mishandling classified information.
Look for some space opening in the FBI's agenda soon. Mueller is running out of time and allies to keep his witch hunt going.
I bet that would send most lefties running for safe spaces to have Hillary re-investigated by the FBI and then indicted.
You won't be satisfied until a politician you hate is put in prison, despite the fact that Republicans have investigated her to the ends of the earth.
Who's the fucking authoritarian asshole here, again?
She's a criminal.
I think most politicians are criminals, so most should be on trial.
You're still the fucking authoritarian asshole here, Tony. You always will be when you advocate socialism. You are linked to a murderous and genocidal political group.
Well there were 40 fucking hearings about it. And you're still not satisfied.
I'm not calling for more hearings, she's out What you're saying refutes Hillary's own written words and testimony.
Rumsfeld voluntarily stepped down for his failures inadequacies (albeit belatedly). Clinton didn't. So, entirely lacking partisan math (or at least, I'm not in any way a devoted conservative and even if I was I still hate Rumsfeld), Clinton's leadership and ethics fall somewhere below Rumsfeld's. Both fall well below someone like Patreus.
You're still equating four people killed by rioters in Libya to the entire Iraq War.
I'm sorry you were had by cynical Republican politics, but shouldn't you have gotten over that mistake by now?
I'm sorry you were had by cynical Republican politics, but shouldn't you have gotten over that mistake by now?
So you, of all people, are done blaming Bush for Iraq? Can I get it in writing?
I suspect not since the larger implications of your statement are nonsense. Since no President has killed as many Americans in war as Lincoln so it's all good? If we displace millions and turn the rest on each other, thereby killing tens of thousands it's all good as long as we don't directly kill a couple thousand?
You say equating but I'm not equating. Rumsfeld admitted mistakes and stepped down. Clinton didn't. Rumsfeld should hang from a streetlamp, Clinton should've been tried and convicted. I'm not equating, just not lying to let my team off the hook the way you are.
Hillary thought her actions in Syria and Libya made her more qualified to be commander-in-chief.
WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE AT THIS POINT!?!
Not only did they blame the video they even through that poor sucker in jail even though they knew they were lying!
That's the point Tony doesn't quite grasp.
Hillary is still influencing politics. She is literally trying to keep her own errors, bad judgments, criminal activity, and lies in the public eye.
Plus, she would do it again...in a heartbeat.
I will continue to bring up the past about her until she dies or just stays away from politics.
Please explain to me why you think your conversations with conservatives are of any interest to us.
(As an aside, given your extreme bigotry on the subject, I doubt you've voluntarily had more than a two sentence conversation with a conservative in the last five years.)
I suspect you don't know them personally, but you did see the embedded link to TNR, right?
Hillary WAS responsible for what Americans dying in Libya.
I know, to lefties what are a few American deaths when they could have been pulled out or reinforced to prevent their deaths.
There is no fucking hope for you morons.
Thanks. I am glad a leftist finally admits that they cannot convince free minded Libertarians that we should switch to socialism.
Tony, remember when the USSR sat outside undefended Warsaw with a huge army to wait for Nazis to re-enter the city, kill most of the Polish Jews in the Ghettos, and then raze it to the ground? This happened in 1944 and the poles were allies of Britain, France, USA, and the USSR.
Tony is a dogmatic zealot. If he were raised in other parts of the world I believe he'd kill children without conscience all for an implied reward of virginal paradise.
Any extremist, like Tony, who agrees, accepts, and preaches with 100% conviction of their dogma is simply a cog in the wheel of their master, not an autonomous thinker. If that zealot were raised in a different geographical, communal, or socioeconomic environment they would conform to the mantras of the powerful organizations dominating that area; because it is in their nature to latch onto an authority that does the thinking for them, that tells them which views to hold.
Could not every issue that Tony argues be more easily summarized by simply handing out a pamphlet of the democratic/socialist platform?
We don't accept pamphlets here on Reason, so he gotta peddle his socialism here.
He's got Shikha on board, so maybe it works.
Imaginary friends don't count.
Ah yes, the latest bullshit leftist term.
I'm Italian, so I should be offended that the Pizza joint down the street is owned and operated by and Indian immigrant. Doesn't matter that he makes great Pizza....
The proper response to most leftist bullshit terms is just to fuck off, slaver.
---
Being offended for others is a powerful drug. I have a beard and I went into work with my new reading glasses --- someone said I look Jewish so I put that on facebook. My proggie roommate said "well was HE Jewish"... "no" ... and the prog proceeded to get all offended and say well I hope he realizes what a Jewish person would think about that.
When I showed him my comments on facebook, one of my Jewish friends commented "LOL, but you're missing the nose :P"
Proggy didn't know what to say.
I find that the typical proggy has no sense of humor at all. They are easily offended and take everything way too seriously. The only time they laugh is when bad things happen to people they don't like.
They are the most humorless miserable people on earth.
Because when Libertarians make fun, its usually involve jokes at the expense of lefty agendas.
The left is deadly serious about their agendas.
Is there really anybody who's opinion you value or who's worth talking to that gets bent out of shape about anything that carries a small whiff of cultural appropriation?
If your going straight blackface, speaking pidgin Chinese, writing a novel with inauthentic feigned characters or making up totally ignorant feel good myths and sterotypes about another culture I can see a real backlash. But the petty examples trotted out are the sort of leftist scholasticism that never has and never will cut ice with most of the population.
Investing so much editorial and comment ammunition to taking on cultural appropriation is a waste of energy at best and at worst, an invitation to get your commitment to racial equality called in question.
Why are you people even giving this lefty "cultural appropriation" nonsense any attention. Just ignore it.
If it is forced on you, make fun of it and move on.
If you ignore a cancer it only gets worse. Cancers like cultural appropriation must be dealt with.
I guess you're right. It can just be exhausting reminding people about socialism, how corrupt Democrats are, and how corrupt Republicans are.
Only reason(drink!) I clicked on this was to see Kennedy. You suck at life Shikha, I should've known better.
I enjoyed the segment. Both of these smart ladies were stunning. I don't get the hate for Shikha, unless you are an anti-immigration conservative (which I suppose many commenters are).
She said that thing on Twitter one time.
Shikha's a clumsy writer and prone to outbursts of totalitarian/collectivist ideation, both of which make her a not-great spokesperson for libertarianism, but aside from that i'm ambivalent.
I feel sari for you.
You must be hornier than a wet cold!
I stepped out of my sari and into a black pantsuit.
Careful. Hillary might sue for trademark infringement.
Might get indignant for "cultural appropriation"
Cultural appropriation almost rises to the level of oxymoron. I think it is more the nominative fallacy. "I have named something, therefore I understand it, and am correct about it."
The Great American Melting Pot is only a problem if your lively-hood or self worth depends on identity politics. As the ladies point out, adoption of aspects of your culture makes it more comfortable for you to express your culture. It should be a point of pride.
I think it was in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" where the writer and star of the movie, Nia Vardalos, has her characters father proudly proclaiming how many aspects of modern life were invented by the Greeks.
As a person whose genetic heritage traces back to the Isle of Crete, I see that part of my cultural heritage, widely known in the ancient world, has been enthusiastically appropriated by the political class.
The term, I believe, is cause c?l?bre, but maybe Shikha wasn't trying to culturally appropriate french language.
Among the more ridiculous ideas that has emerged from the modern left is "cultural appropriation" which considers it racism for one culture to borrow elements from other cultures.
Serious question: Do these clowns consider furries to be appropriating "animal culture"?
I was at a pizza joint this weekend, and the guy who made my pizza wasn't even Italian. And then it turned out the Canadian bacon wasn't even from Canada, and the pineapple wasn't local sourced.
And then there is New Haven and what that city did to Italians.
And it's not even a haven.
Or new.
Hawaiian pizza was invented by a Greek dude living in Canada, which is a whole mess of problematic.
All the best pizza shops around here were started by Greek immigrants.
Word. True Canadian pizza is topped with moose, gravy, and pieces of flannel.
I went to Hawaii and discovered to my shock that Hawaiian hamburgers do not have pineapple on them! They actually prefer BBQ sauce and bacon.
Pineapple's really no more special or prized there than elsewhere.
Less so probably. Familiarity breeds contempt. They do love their Spam though.
Eh, it's still popular as a treat and is incorporated in cooking a bit. But when it comes to popular local ingredients or crops, spam, pork, ahi, sweet corn are a few that come to my mind long before pineapple. (I try not to legitimize sweet potato and poi)
I don't think much of the pizza war between Chicago and New York style. They're both OK with me. But I have to draw the line somewhere.
1) Bacon and ham are salty meats. The cheese on the pizza is already salty enough. No problem with pig meat per se, it's just too much salt.
2) Don't put fruit on a pizza.
There is no pizza in Chicago, so there's no pizza war.
And bacon and pineapple taste great on pizza. Ham is sorta meh.
Chicago has 2 kinds of pizza better than New York -- the downtown, deep dish stuff that everybody knows about and the below-the-radar thin crust pizza that most of the neighborhood Italian places make. And while we're at it, Detroit-style pizza is also better than New York's:
https://goo.gl/gmRkYh
No.
It's not.
""Don't put fruit on a pizza.""
What about kale?
The tomato is already a half-assed fruit. And most tomato paste has sugar and/or corn syrup added. Putting another sweet topping on a pizza is ummm... worse than Hitler.
This place down the street makes a chicken, bacon, ranch pizza. No red sauce. Just ranch, grilled chicken, bacon, and cheese. So much salt that my blood pressure doubles after just one slice.
I wonder how many cultures were appropriated to make that.
That sounds like the greatest pizza ever. There's a place near my dad's house run by a bunch of Portuguese dudes that makes a crazy good chicken, bacon, ranch grinder.
Why is that whites are the only ones who WANT everyone else to appropriate our culture? In fact we want it so bad we are willing to force it on them. Was making India the largest democracy in the world a bad thing?
Cultural appropriation is a completely stupid and useless concept.
If it's a case of someone ridiculing some element from another person's culture as way of saying that person and their culture sucks, I would understand where they're coming from about feeling "offended." However, that's an issue of the lack of simple courtesy. It's no different than someone, for example, calling a person who wears glasses a "four-eyes."
In nearly every case of "culture appropriation" cited, however, it is meant as a way of admiring or at least respecting some element of another culture. Do you think if you attended a yoga class, you'd hear all kinds of snide remarks about Indians? Do non-Italian chefs in Italian restaurants constantly make fun of Italy?
For years, the left lauded the merits of multiculturalism. Frankly, I agree it has some merits. I enjoy cooking with spices from the Middle East, I enjoy sampling all kinds of delicious cuisines, I love drinking a nice single malt scotch. I think various Eastern martial arts are valuable both for fitness and personal self-defense. I think the Native American tribes that believed in using nearly every part of an animal they'd hunted down, instead of throwing away most of it to rot, were thinking logically and getting maximum benefit and efficiency from their efforts. All of this stuff makes me appreciate other cultures more, not less.
Do these idiots realize how silly they sound?
She stepped out of her black dress and donned my red Indian sari?with traditional jewelry and a bindi to boot. I stepped out of my sari and into a black pantsuit.
I think some Russian TV news reporters resorted to similar on-air tactics to boost ratings.
I stepped out of my sari and into a black pantsuit.
Did you get all wobbly and need secret service to help you into your min-van?
The idea is that the dominant culture appropriating aspects of nondominant cultures can represent a sort of "colonialism" that robs minority groups of their ability to keep and determine their own identity, which in extreme cases can be called desecration. (White conservative Americans can appreciate this what with their incessant whining that black people are abusing "their" flag.)
But apart from plausible concerns that culture policing only serves to divide people in what used to be celebrated as a melting-pot culture, this crusade suffers from the same thing many other progressive causes do: it begins and ends with the complaining. It lacks a pragmatic aspect. Minorities never gain power in society by complaining alone. They have to work more insidiously, using dominant power structures to their advantage. Walling themselves off is both nonproductive and seems to be contrary to the actual goal.
Tony, what do you call actual robbing of minority's identity? Socialism!
Controlling that means of productions again.
You, sarcasmic, and sevo should get together and do some finger paints or something. Use paint, not your own feces, please.
Aw, poor Tony, is trying to push socialism teaching styles on adult Libertarians who bad mouth socialism.
All of which assumes that ethnic groups have will and volition and an ability to own ideas that is independent of their component individuals. Which is nonsense.
Yes the idea is that it is a form of "intellectual property" owned by all the members of the culture. Do you not believe that more than one person can own a thing?
Tony, does not understand how patents work and why because socialist states own everything including you and your culture.
I guess justifying racial separatism is one possible application of IP theory, but it's pretty specious one, Richard Spencer.
Your credentials, sir.
A group of people who form an organization voluntarily by contract can own a thing. A natural demographic group cannot. That's just insipid, Tony. Ethnic groups aren't even discrete things. Are Frisian German? Are Sicilians Italian? Can North Germans claim ownership of lederhosen even though they're actually they're really a part of south German culture.
The whole notion of ethnic ownership is facile, get over it.
After claiming no leftists take this shit seriously, you proceed to take it seriously.
No, it isn't a form of colonialism. That's just retarded. I don't own sauerkraut because I'm German (which is technically a 'minority culture', no?) nobody owns their culture. Jews don't own the concept of polio vaccines because one of them invented.
The whole concept is retarded. That's it.
And here's a novel ducking concept: how about instead aspiring to have minorities take power over us, we aspire to stop fucking caring everyone's race is? How's that for a concept?
Except for the fact that at least in the US popular culture IS black culture. Music, clothes, slang all comes from the blacks. Beyonce isn't buying 100 million dollar houses because she only sells records to black people. Why do you want Beyonce to be poor?
"Music, clothes, slang all comes from the blacks."
True. Blacks, and specifically African-American people, did invent jazz music, which some consider to be the only music actually invented in North America. Curiously enough, the original jazz musicians and fans never seemed to have any problem with white people who enjoyed and even started playing jazz. It's like they figured "the more the merrier."
I wonder if people like Dave Brubeck or Stan Getz offend the cultural appropriationists. Or what they make of white Canadian women like Diana Krall, or even Europeans, who favor jazz.
Kennedy is hot in a sari. Cultural appropriation gets a big thumbs up!
That's not the ONLY thing it gets up, if you know what I mean!
Wait, Shikha and Kennedy switched clothes? On live TV?
Does anyone have a link the the episode under discussion? I did not find a link or a transcript of the interview.
The video is at the end if the article.
It does not exit on my screen. Regardless, IceTrey, thank you for responding.
Until all these culture warrior leftists start removing their "Om" and Kanji tattoos with dull knives to express remorse for cultural appropriation I will happily ignore the whole conversation.
They can keep their tattoos, and I'll still ignore the conversation.
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation.
Arguably, when Christian missionaries wholesale adopted foreign religious traditions and changed their meanings, that was appropriation.
But seeing as how any actual examples of appropriating culture has jack-all to do with a white girl wearing a Moana costume I'm going to agree with you that it doesn't exist.
Yes, because imperialism and subjugation is a much better solution. We won't culturally appropriate you, we'll just scorch the earth of your culture.
Problem solved!
I stepped out of my sari and into a black pantsuit.
Stepping into a bikini woulda been real appropriation, baby doll.
Something else is definitely up now.
Just one more reason for this:
"The whole Democratic Party is now a smoking pile of rubble: In state government things are worse, if anything. The GOP now controls a historical record number of governors' mansions, including a majority of New England governorships. Tuesday's election swapped around a few state legislative houses but left Democrats controlling a distinct minority. The same story applies further down ballot, where most elected attorneys general, insurance commissioners, secretaries of state, and so forth are Republicans." http://www.vox.com/policy-and-.....ile-rubble
And this:
"The Democratic Party is viewed as more out of touch than either Trump or the party's political opponents. Two-thirds of Americans think the Democrats are out of touch ? including nearly half of Democrats themselves. ...a large chunk of Democrats feel that their party is united in a vision ? that's at odds with the concerns of the American public." -Washington Post
https://archive.is/SAj6w
NO pizza for non Italians.
And no tomato sauce for the Italians' pizzas, since tomatoes originated in North America.
these cultural appropriation naziz need to be held to account to follow their OWN rules. As long as they are living in the US, they cannot eat rice, tomatoes, wheat, apples, pasta, curry, ginger, grape wine, whiskey, sardines, anchovies, lamb, nor can they ride horses or drive a diesel engined car.
ANy violation of these restrictions voids their right to criticise or holler at anyone else for any "cultural appropriation". Oh, and then they get arrested, they can't be kept in a jail. They'll just have to be taken out back and shot....... the final "cultural appropriation" because gunpowder is Chinese and thus cannot be used here.
Yet the supporters of "cultural appropriation" speak our language - English rather than their own, live in America not in their own country, eat our food rather than their own, wear our western clothes etc., etc.,
They obviously don't see that they're doing what they accuse Americans of doing to a far, FAR greater extent.
Those who live in glass houses should be very wary of throwing stones! It seems that the vast expansion of funding for education has limited people's ability to think...
The whole "cultural appropriation" thing just gives away a hopeless lack of confidence in one's own culture. Say what you like about the Japanese, they have no lack of confidence in themselves. So when I run into Japanese (not Japanese-Americans, but actual Japanese), they look at me, a hopelessly obvious gaijin, enjoying something Japanese, they don't whine about "cultural appropriation". They're happy and proud to see me enjoying something from Japan. "You like Japanese?" is a call of pride, not an accusation.