Judge Napolitano on Whether the Trump/NFL Feud Is a First Amendment and/or Free Speech Issue

The real 'Free Speech Week' kicks off on tonight's Kennedy, featuring Robby Soave, Matt Welch, Kat Timpf, Charles C.W. Cooke, and the Judge

C-SPAN

Berkeley's Milo-tastic Free Speech Week might have been a dud on arrival, but that's not going to stop the most libertarian cable news show on television probing both the culture and legality of free speech all damn week. Fox Business Network's Kennedy, the eponymous daily starring Reason's dear old pal, launches its own Free Speech Week tonight with a super-strong effort featuring:

* Judge Andrew Napolitano, expertly picking apart free-speech arguments about the Trump-NFL-anthem kerfuffle that you hadn't even begun thinking about.

* Beloved Reason campus-free-speech correspondent Robby Soave, who describes what he saw at that Berkeley nothingburger, and what that might mean for the college speaking wars.

* A Party Panel of me, Kat Timpf, and Conservatarian Manifesto author Charles C.W. Cooke, discussing Trump's NFL commentary, and also his administration's revised travel ban.

Other Reason guests on Kennedy this week will include Peter Suderman and Katherine Mangu-Ward, so stay tuned all week at 8 p.m. ET! Oh, and read our recent magazine interview with the hostess herself.

Comments

[BestUsedCarSales]

Beloved Reason campus-free-speech correspondent Robby Soave, who describes what he saw at that Berkeley nothingburger, and what that might mean for the college speaking wars.

Really it's closer to a beloved/behate relationship.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

Nah, just hair jelly.

[Tom Bombadil]

If free speech was curtailed, it wasn't a "nothingburger".

Does Soave require rioting to conclude something wrong is afoot?

[Tom Bombadil]

Granted, Welch might be the one calling it a "nothingburger".

[Bra Ket]

I'd like to hijack this stupid issue to note that I've always thought it was bullshit how the govt propagates it's own restrictions onto private businesses. First it just has to make itself an essential part of an industry's operation, such as school loans, grant funding, medicare.And of course govt doing these things really means the majority is doing these things (more or less). Ergo every corruption of the govt into the economy yields a built-in restriction of rights as the majority gains powers.

Has anyone made the case that govt funding of stadiums/teams means they get to dictate NFL behavior too?

[damikesc]

They should. Might get the NFL to stop getting financed by taxpayers with no benefit to said taxpayers. I think it's bullshit that I have to pay (through the tax exempt status of bonds to fund these bullshit palaces) for stadiums for billionaires.

[Uncle Jay]

RE: Judge Napolitano on Whether the Trump/NFL Feud Is a First Amendment and/or Free Speech Issue

Herr Trump doesn't believe in free speech any more than the antifa faction does.
Both wipe their ass with the First Amendment.

[BestUsedCarSales]

That takes dedication. It's way more expensive and less comfortable compared to TP.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Beloved Reason campus-free-speech correspondent Robby Soave, who describes what he saw at that Berkeley nothingburger...

I sure hope it's not someone who looks like James O'Keefe again. Or even Michael O'Keefe.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Too bad Reason can't simply publish Napolitano for us who can't watch to read.

Or did the Cocktail Association of America threaten to revoke Reason's credentials if they kept publishing him?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Since Reason is too liberal for you I suggest you join your fellow Neo-Nazis and other "fine people" Trump supporters over at Stormfront or Breitbart.

[Rufus The Monocled]

How are the stitches to your lobotomy healing up?

You faux-classical liberal you.

[Liberty =><= Equality]

If he's too conservative for you I suggest you don't read his comments.

[DJF]

Trump can say anything he wants even when he is president. Even saying that some people should be fired.

The 1st amendment issue only comes about if Congress passes a law that restricts free speech and Trump enforces it.

[Palin's Buttplug]

There is not really a 1A issue here. The problem is the Asshole POTUS who calls NFL players "sons of bitches" while calling Neo-Nazi white supremacist marchers in Charlottesville "fine people".

[Rufus The Monocled]

Figures you'd buy into that stupid narrative.

Well, tell you what. Obama was a racist Marxist.

[Reality]

who calls NFL players "sons of bitches" while calling Neo-Nazi white supremacist marchers in Charlottesville "fine people"

Wasn't it hypothetical nfl players?

You portray yourself as smarter than this but when offered the opportunity, you demonstrate to everyone who can read that you have poor reading comprehension.

And then you use your own poor reading comprehension as the basis for an assertion and an insult.

Do you even realize how stupid you look doing that?

[Palin's Buttplug]

The Con Man said any player who protested during the national anthem was a son of a bitch who should be fired.

Fuck that authoritarian asshole and all his supporters like you.

[Reality]

"The Con Man said any player who protested during the national anthem was a son of a bitch who should be fired."

You really don't have to keep proving me right about your poor reading comprehension.

Post the quote.

[Reality]

That's what I thought, bye bitch!

[Palin's Buttplug]

If a player wants the privilege of making millions of dollars in the NFL,or other leagues, he or she should not be allowed to disrespect.......our Great American Flag (or Country) and should stand for the National Anthem. If not, YOU'RE FIRED. Find something else to do!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

[Reality]

He doesn't call them sons of bitches at all in that one.

I win again, and you fail.

[Palin's Buttplug]

"Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he's fired. He's fired,'" Trump said. "You know, some owner is going to do that. He's going to say, 'That guy that disrespects our flag, he's fired.' And that owner, they don't know it [but] they'll be the most popular person in this country."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/2.....index.html

[Reality]

"Wouldn't you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, "

Thank you for proving that I was correct about it being a hypothetical player, and you being wrong.

I suppose" hypothetical" was too big a word for you?

I win, again, and you fail, again.

[Reality]

In this thread we learned that Shrike is still stupid, and likes to prove he has terrible reading comprehension.

[Palin's Buttplug]

he has terrible reading comprehension

You're the idiot. "somebody" is a universal qualifier. It means ANY AND ALL who perform the action of disrespect to the flag (protest in reality).

[Reality]

And he is STILL proving that the concept of hypothetical is beyond him.

". "somebody" is a universal qualifier. "

Ahahahahahah what the fuck nk it isn't you fucking retaaahhhhhhdd!!

/ actual linguist

[Reality]

AHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAH HE CAN'T STOP PROVING HE HAS TERRIBLE READING COMPREHENSION!!!

AHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

HE THINKS POSTING MORE WILL MAKE HIM SEEM LESS STUPID, NOT REINFORCE THE POINT THAT HE CANT READ!!

THEN HE SAYS THIS

"It means ANY AND ALL who perform the action of disrespect to the flag (protest in reality)."

AAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAJ WHAT A GOD DAMNED IDIOT!!! AHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHA

[Rufus The Monocled]

Yes. And the reaction was overblown. And I happen to agree. America ain't treating you so bad if you can earn MILLIONS playing a game. Spare us the faux-principled spectacle of kneeling and all that garbage. Do your job and stop antagonizing some of your fan bases that generate the wealth needed to pay your staggering salaries and wages. I find it preposterous that they talk of Trump, inequality, injustice while they earn 25 times (?) the average salary. Suddenly the 'income gap' don't matter so much when boobs like Bennet and James and Curry and their ilk count their dough.

THAT'S what the average 'deplorable' takes from this I reckon.

Were you this upset when Obama actually FLAT OUT lied to your face about being able to keep your doctor?

Jus curious.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I kept my doctor, idiot. Almost everyone did.

Some who changed insurers could not.

[Rufus The Monocled]

You're a punk liar so it's not surprising you're defending another punk liar.

Good for you. Anecdotal but not a single one of my friends or family I have in the greatest country on earth got to keep their doctor. And saw their premiums shoot up to absurd levels.

Punk.

[Reality]

I posted a link to one of his pet fact checkers, that proves he lied.

He ignored it because he already knew.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|9.25.17 @ 8:42PM|#
"I kept my doctor, idiot. Almost everyone did."

Go fuck your daddy, you lying piece of shit.

[Reality]

Of course he wasn't. He wasn't smart enough to understand the implications.

And now he'll share some stupid talking point he swallowed about how Obama never said that, or it was taken out of context, or some other ridiculous excuse.

[Reality]

Ha! I knew it!

[Reality]

http://www.politifact.com/trut.....nd-report/

Those letters were at odds with President Barack Obama's campaign promise from previous years that people who liked their insurance could keep their plans. (We awarded his old line our Lie of the Year for 2013.)

Ahahahahhahaahhahah you fucking retaaaahhhhhddd! You just lied about something that's among the most easily provable things in all of government !!!

Ahahahahahahahhaahhahahah. What kind of loser goes on the Internet and lies about something that is so easily proven. You're so pathetic your entire family is embarrassed for you right now !!!!

Ahahahahahha

POLITIFACT SAYS YOURE A LIAR!!! POLITIFACT!!!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH

[Rufus The Monocled]

Obama WAS and IS nothing but a punk.

Give me an example of anything he said or wrote of any intellectual substance or clarity.

One that we can admire for posterity where a thought or ideal or even theory we build upon.

I listened and watched for eight years. I listened and read his supporters (and cultists) searching for something.

Instead, what we got were tired cliches and trivial tropes; left-wing rehashing of failed policies from what amounted to be a mediocre and lazy mind. Worse, one in which despite his faux-oratical skills, could not be criticized lest you be called a racist.

Obama. Not gone enough.

[Reality]

Rufus, Palin's Buttplug can't even read properly, you might as well ask a sea monkey to do differential equations.

[Reality]

Where'd you go PB?

No stupid retort? If you weren't lying it should be easy.

[Reality]

I'm gonna go fuck my wife now because shutting that loser shrike up like I just did makes me hard .

[Palin's Buttplug]

You and Rufus can stop sucking each other's dick anytime now.

[Rufus The Monocled]

That dildo of Obama's face you use. Did you pick it up on Amazon?

[Reality]

See? I knew you were a homophobe with that "Christfag" thing you do.

[Reality]

In this thread we learn that shrike is a homophobe, has poor reading comprehension, and is jealous of people who get their dicks sucked.

Now you understand why he is so angry with the world.

[Reality]

What I don't understand is why someone who lies about paying a bet thinks that we will believe him when he says he kept his doctor

[Tony]

So Trump can air any and all grievances he wants as a fake billionaire, but real millionaires should just shut up and be happy massa let them make some money.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|9.25.17 @ 8:14PM|#
"The Con Man"

Oh, Oh! Look!
Turd tries to make a funny!
And fails.

[Reality]

Well, sevo's here to old man ruin the thread.

I'm out, don't get your old man stink everywhere sevo, we need to use this place tomorrow .

[damikesc]

The Con Man said any player who protested during the national anthem was a son of a bitch who should be fired.

So not all players. Got it.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Sounds like a corker of an episode. But who watches Fox Business?

[BestUsedCarSales]

I do. I record Kennedy at least.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Exactly.

[BestUsedCarSales]

It's not a good sign of anything, that's for sure.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Hoops

[Fist of Etiquette]

So the Judge says he will use the force of government to stop players from kneeling during play.

[Fist of Etiquette]

OMG Welch. You're wearing that? You do realize Labor Day is in the rear view.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This Limey is correct. These protests are counter productive.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"The president obviously knows what he's doing."

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, come on, Welch. He's just more vulgar about it. He's more unsubtle, but not uniquely partisan and manipulative in the White House.

[Liberty =><= Equality]

Whether the Trump/NFL Feud Is a First Amendment and/or Free Speech Issue

Is somebody being threatened with coercive punishment or restraint for their speech? No. So the answer is no.

You can thank me for saving you the click later.

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? Neither of these people have flowing, flaxen locks!

[SIV]

So other than the Judge, and maybe Kennedy, it's just one big NeverTrump circle jerk.

[Palin's Buttplug]

They are discussing the AL Senate race and the nutjob theocrat "Judge" Roy Moore now - the same asshole who said the US Constitution is superseded by the Bible.

[Reality]

Did he say that or was that your already proven inability to understand English?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Haa! Even Cowboys owner Jerry Jones is protesting by kneeling.

YER FIRED YOU UNAMERICAN SCUM!

[BestUsedCarSales]

I think he's just can't stand anymore.

[Episteme]

Regardless of one's feelings on the protest issue, hearing people boo the Dallas Cowboys is like a blowjob for your soul?

[damikesc]

Haa! Even Cowboys owner Jerry Jones is protesting by kneeling.

YER FIRED YOU UNAMERICAN SCUM!

Yes. Making Trump the "pro-flag" candidate is going to work wonders.

Perhaps it's time for HHS to seriously investigate the NFL's handling of CTE. And perhaps it's time for feminists to be reminded of its horrific issue with domestic violence, which the NFL doesn't care about nearly as much as Trump criticizing them.

[crufus]

What is the fun of being President if you don't say stupid things that have absolutely nothing to do with the duties and responsibilities of your office?

[Liberty =><= Equality]

Suppose a Whole Foods employee stands at the store entrance ripping up a copy of the Civil Rights Act to shreds. Someone asks him why he's doing it, and he says it's because he's against the public school teacher unions having too much influence in government.

Leftist customers complain that he's disrespecting an iconic piece of legislation that even conservatives claim to support, and should be fired. WF says no dice, they respect their employee's first amendment rights. Then conservatives attack the leftists, saying they're obsessing over a piece of paper and should just get over it and let him have his freedom of speech.

Now, more and more WF employees across the country start rpping up the CRA in front of the entrance.

Would you consider it legit for the leftists to get pissed at everyone involved and start threatening boycotts of WF until they get their employees to stop? If Obama came out and said that WF should fire the employees, could you imagine WF's CEO putting out a statement saying Obama's statement was divisive and disrespectful?

[BestUsedCarSales]

I would consider that unlikely. Though I would consider it legitimate for leftists to then protest. I would consider it unbecoming of Obama to make that comment (Though, it's not like I was for him much anyway). I would not expect the CEO to make a comment.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

If Obama came out and said that WF should fire the employees, could you imagine WF's CEO putting out a statement saying Obama's statement was divisive and disrespectful?

Yes, and I'm a little mystified as to why you made this analogy yourself.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Tonight the part of Buck Sexton will be played by Adam Scott.

[Fist of Etiquette]

That unkempt Limey is suspiciously quiet on immigration.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Mark Steyn? He's already gotten into enough trouble talking immigration.

[SIV]

Charles C. Cuck

[SIV]

Charles C.W. Cuck

[Fist of Etiquette]

Take a hike, party panel. Don't let the floor hit you on the knees on the way out.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"So, Robby, what happened?"

TO YOUR HAIR?!?

[BestUsedCarSales]

I'm still at work and you're spoiling the big stuff already.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's a shocker.

[Fist of Etiquette]

BREAKING NEWS: Soave equates the flag with freedom.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Shame. As a libertarian, I refuse any symbolism.

[Fist of Etiquette]

UGH. Soave take vertical photos. FIGURES.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Seemed like a combination of a caesar cut and a fauxhawk.

[AlmightyJB]

Yawwwwwwnnn

[Hateful Reactionary]

I continue to be amazed at the NFL's ritual suicide at the altar of PC.

[Fist of Etiquette]

No wonder < i The Independents went tits up. They only had four Topical Storms back then.

[Dick Puller, Attorney at Law]

What's the problem? Did Trump demand legislation to address the NFL? I don't see that at all. He encouraged individuals to express their displeasure as private citizens. What could be more libertarian than that?

[GILMORE?]

What could be more libertarian than that?

Stoned ass-sex with a mexican on the veranda of your sea-steading platform

[Fist of Etiquette]

How well does this antique show hold Kennedy's numbers?

[Reality]

Hey remember when Palin's Buttplug called everyone "Christfag!!!".

Boy, using a gay slur sure was hateful and disgusting of him.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Liar. I only called men who profess love for Jesus "Christ-fags". You have to admit it is pretty damned faggy.

Nevertheless, all religion should be ridiculed. Especially Islam.

[Reality]

I can see you still don't understand why you're disgusting and hateful.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Because religion is pure bullshit.

Yes, George Carlin, Penn Gillette, and the many atheists in the world are all disgusting.

[Reality]

I can see you still don't understand why you're disgusting and hateful, and are so stupid that you think it has to do with religion.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I welcome your hatred. I am proud of it. I thrive on it. Hate me more.

[Reality]

Nah, bruh, hateful, not hated, it's morphology. And it proves again you can't read well.

[GILMORE?]

General Mattis on the NFL kneeling crucial-issue-of-our-time

During a question and answer session with members of the media while en route to India on Sunday, a reporter asked Mattis if he had "anything to say about the NFL, being someone who has served in the military."

"I'm the secretary of defense," Mattis said. "We defend the country."

The press event ended immediately after Mattis's response.

The more people that go, "That's stupid. Next Question", the better.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I wonder if all this outrage culture is basically an optimization to maximize revenue in the age of the internet. It comes about because someone out there on Twitter can be marketed to with basically any outrage even tenuously connected to reality. The MSM does it as well because they want that money and it costs so little to write one of these think pieces that is nothing but relatively benign posturing on some issue or another.

[BestUsedCarSales]

As usual, I'm not doing a good job saying what I mean.

One thing we commonly see is that more people are outraged now. But is this true? Maybe people are as outraged as they ever are and we just have more ways to amplify their complaints. This idea I have seen thrown around a lot, and I think it's a pretty reasonable stance to take.

I wonder then if all this outrage stuff in the MSM is an attempt to direct it back, and they can produce so much content so easily and cheaply that someone out there will be appeased by the opinion expressed.

[Reality]

"General Mattis on the NFL kneeling crucial-issue-of-our-time"

God I'm tired of you obnoxious fucks.

[I can't even]

It's not First Amendment issue. It's a contract issue. The players all signed contracts that require them to follow NFL rules. The rule book is very specific on how players should stand respectfully during the national anthem.

The NFL Commissioner could have avoided this shit show by fining players as soon as this started, but he is an idiot and now it has spun out of control.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Is it a 5, 10, or a 15 yard penalty for not standing during the anthem?

I honestly don't know.

[Reality]

You also don't know why you've proven yourself disgusting and hateful, but you are so stupid that you still think it has to do with religion.

[Palin's Buttplug]

May you spend eternity eating the curdled cheese that grows in Trump's bloated ass cheeks.

[Reality]

And now he realizes he actually doesn't understand, and starts throwing things.

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|9.25.17 @ 10:04PM|#
"May you spend eternity eating the curdled cheese that grows in Trump's bloated ass cheeks."

May you some day, realize who fucking stupid you've been and die of embarrassment as any sentient being would do.
Go fuck your daddy, turd.

[Reality]

"It's a UNIVERSAL QUALIFIER!!!" he spewed to the linguist, before vacating the field because he knew he was outclassed intellectually.

[BestUsedCarSales]

So what's a universal qualifier? Is it similar to universal quantifier in logic?

[Reality]

That's what he was talking about and why I laughed at him.

[Palin's Buttplug]

players should stand respectfully during the national anthem

What if a player slouches? What is the fine for bad posture?

[Reality]

And, werw you a player, would you pay the fine, or lie like you did about paying your bet? And keeping your doctor.

[Reality]

Thank you shriek for allowing me to commit a title IX violation on you all night

[Hairy Carry]

"Palin's Buttplug|9.25.17 @ 8:42PM|#

I kept my doctor"

Can you lose a court ordered Psychaitrist?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

More like Dr. Feelgood considering the drugs he consumes to pretend he's not an Obama-licking shitbag.

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

Fist after dark is strange but kinky.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's always dark somewhere.

[Mickey Rat]

It is more of an Anger Your Customer Base For No Good Reason issue. Even as a bringing awareness of an issue thing, what the fans are seeing are players being unpatriotic, not the "issue".

[damikesc]

No shit. The players, BEST CASE, are equating Trump --- yes, Donald Fucking Trump --- with America. And they are on the OPPOSING side.

Can't figure out who thinks this is a winning message, but players were already fairly dumb BEFORE their repeated head trauma.

[damikesc]

It's no more a First Amendment/Free Speech issue than this site bitching about it is.

[Robspierre]

The customer is always right. Owners will switch to protect their billon dollar asset. Goodell is toast. I can't support Trumps quest ; I quit watching over a year ago!