Health care reform

Don't Fall for Jimmy Kimmel's Cheap Zero-Sum Emotionalism

His political rants could be written by any liberal activist.

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In recent months, late-night talk show host Jimmy Kimmel has taken to scaremongering his audience with well-worn Democratic Party talking points regarding health care insurance policy. Between yuks, he occasionally accuses Republicans of being would-be baby killers, which is treated as an important political development because, well, Jimmy Kimmel is famous.

This week, the comedian was back to explain why the new Graham-Cassidy Republican "repeal" bill is bad news. There were only two things wrong with his monologue: Almost everything he said was either completely untrue or highly misleading, and his simplistic emotional appeal was completely disconnected from the real world.

The comedian's interest in policy was sparked by the harrowing experience of having a newborn son who suffered from a rare health condition. Thankfully, his boy is OK. "If your baby is going to die and it doesn't have to, it shouldn't matter how much money you make," said an emotional Kimmel in May. "I think that's something that, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat or something else, we all agree on that, right?"

Yes, everyone agrees. As far as I know, there isn't a single politician in America who has ever supported allowing babies to die because they are born with birth defects, even if the parents can't pay. Not pre-Obamacare, and not post-Obamacare.

In any event, after Kimmel's May rant, Louisiana Sen. Bill Cassidy (R) showed up on his show to explain his position. These types of culture encounters shouldn't be dismissed, because the fact is most viewers are unaware of specific policies and have a notional understanding that's prejudiced by the establishment media's coverage. Cassidy came up with something he called the "Jimmy Kimmel Test," a test that no "family should be denied medical care, emergency or otherwise, because they can't afford it."

Kimmel claims that the new bill doesn't meet this threshold. "This guy, Bill Cassidy, just lied right to my face," the talk-show host said on Tuesday night during an extended political rant. He went on to say, "And by the way, before you post a nasty Facebook message saying I'm politicizing my son's health problems, I want you to know: I am politicizing my son's health problems." OK.

He explained: "Coverage for all? No. Fact, it will kick about 30 million Americans off insurance."

Not a single person would be "kicked off" his or her insurance. Rather, the Congressional Budget Office review of the AHCA found that of the 24 million Americans who would no longer have health insurance after an Obamacare repeal, 14 million would choose not to buy insurance in 2018 in the absence of a penalty. And if Obamacare were not repealed, the CBO projects another 6 million people would voluntarily leave the Obamacare markets. Now, if you don't believe Americans should be afforded the choice to leave or not buy insurance, just say that. No one is being kicked off.

Moreover, if Kimmel supports the individual mandate, Graham-Cassidy allows California to institute it—as I am sure it would.

Kimmel says: "Pre-existing conditions? Nope. If the bill passes, individual states can let insurance companies charge more if you have a pre-existing condition."

States would be allowed to apply for waivers to change what qualifies as an essential health benefit as long as they still preserve "adequate and affordable health insurance coverage" for people with pre-existing conditions. You may prefer price fixing to allowing states flexibility to try and fix these problems, but Graham-Cassidy does not break the "Jimmy Kimmel Test." Kimmel might not be aware that there is no plan in place that has government cutting checks after every surgery.

Kimmel then implored his audience to call Cassidy to stop the imaginary bill he had just described. It's a shame that Kimmel didn't provide a number to call for the tens of millions of Americans who have seen their premiums and out-of-pocket costs skyrocket under Obamacare's strictures. Is there no number available for those who are sick of being in exchanges that coerce them to buy plans they don't need that are sold by companies they don't like in fabricated, noncompetitive "markets" with dwindling choices?

Anyway, so went a monologue that could have been written by any liberal activist. Which is to say it was all about cheap zero-sum emotionalism. Kimmel doesn't believe Americans deserve the chance to reduce the cost of health care with market-based reforms on the state level, or in giving states any flexibility in catering their plans to their own citizens. Kimmel believes California and New York should spend more per capita and smaller states should suffer. Kimmel doesn't believe that individuals and families should be allowed to contribute to health savings accounts or use them to help pay ever-growing insurance premiums. Kimmel wants average Americans to suffer.

You see? Anyone can play this game.

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  1. I saw a friend on Facebook telling us all to show ACA is working by signing up now, especially all us young people.

    I also saw them laughing at a person in a car accident who was asking for help with medical bills. This person previously had said that it didn’t make sense for someone young like him to have expensive healthcare. There is perceived to be a contradiction here.

    1. “I also saw them laughing at a person in a car accident who was asking for help with medical bills”

      BUCS’s Taste In Friends, status: JUDGED.

      1. When I made the original drunk post, I was hoping you’d show. You’re my drunk posting friend.

        1. Telcontar’s Judgment Of BUCS’s Taste In Friends, status: CONFIRMED.

          1. I’m making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

            This is what I do… http://www.onlinecareer10.com

    2. It DOESN’T make sense for him to have Cadillac coverage. He needed a cheap catastrophic plan, which he might have been able to afford before 0care made his only option to pay several grand a month for the privilege of a five-figure deductible.

      1. Wrong. Age-rated would not have him paying a higher premium to subsidize lower premiums for older and wealthier Americans. Catastrophic health insurance only makes sense with a Healthcare Savings Account, and only for those willing to accept much greater personal risk.

  2. I wish there was a comprehensive report about those of us who were forced out of our insurance and into an ObamaCare plan — I heard that we were being counted toward the “success” of the program.

    To explain: I am self-employed in California & the sole breadwinner of my family. I have 5 kids and pre-ACA I purchased a “catastrophic” plan for about $630/month for my family. I paid higher co-pays and prescriptions and had a $10K deductible, but annual physicals and immunizations were covered. Once I hit the deductible, they covered everything.

    Now? My premiums are over $2100 a month. My co-pay is only $5 less than with my previous plan. Prescriptions are the same or only dollars less. I still have a (nearly) $10K deductible, but I get bills for everything — every time someone has a test or goes to the doctor, I get billed. I’m paying roughly $250-300/month and not going to the doctor any more than we had in the past. I checked my statement and NONE of those extra bills that I pay are being counted against my deductible. I’ve emailed my health provider and have not received a satisfactory response.

    I was one of those “special” people whose plan was cancelled and I was forced into an Obamacare plan. I think it’s insane that I have to pay $25K a year for insurance PLUS huge co-pays, pay for labs, etc when I got almost the exact same benefits for less than $9K a year pre ACA.

    1. My guess is yes. I know for sure they count people who would rather not buy insurance but are obligated to now as a success.

    2. I’m in a similar situation. My employer stopped offering insurance that actually paid for stuff and replaced it with high deductible (catastrophic) plans. Except that these new plans cost the same or more than the ones that paid for stuff. So now I’m paying more for insurance that doesn’t pay for anything, and putting several hundred dollars a month into an HSA. My out of pocket for health insurance and health care has literally doubled since the UnAffordable Care Act.

      1. Your employer changing plans had nothing to do with Obamacare. As one of the people I know in my company HR confided in me, most employers took the opportunity to cut benefits and blame it on Obamacare because most people have no idea what it actually does and would believe the lie.

        1. Wreckers! Hoarders! Kulaks!

          Tells us another story you got from old Uncle Joe.

          1. Obamacare didn’t effect employer insurance. It would have if the cadillac tax had gone into effect, but it never did. Anyone who says some change in their work insurance happened because of Obamacare is lying.

            1. I had a plan i liked that i bought outside of my employment, but had to go on my employer’s slightly cheaper and much shittier plan because Obamacare made my plan illegal – does that count?

            2. Yes it did. Government affected how health insurance companies had to have certain benefits, so employer health plans changed too.

              Stop lying lefty douche.

            3. “Obamacare didn’t effect employer insurance.”

              Horse shit.

              The Obamacare employer mandate took effect on January 1, 2015. Starting on that date, “large employers” were required to provide 70% of their full-time equivalent employees and those employees’ families with minimum essential healthcare insurance.

              https://tinyurl.com/ycvpzstw

              And just what legislation do you suppose defines ‘minimum essential healthcare insurance’???

            4. “effect” is not a verb. “insurance” is not health care. Insurance for pre-existing conditions is an oxymoron.

              1. Socialists love free shit. That doesn’t mean they are against someone else paying for it. That would be you.

              2. “‘effect’ is not a verb”

                Grammar-Juden detected; deploying Einsatzgruppen!

                1. Although Stormy DID use it in the wrong way… unless he meant that Obamacare *created* employer insurance.

            5. ACA exerts major impacts in the insurance market. Because it did not overtly target EGHPs in no way means it did not impact them.

              The majority of beneficiaries of ACA are those with expanded Medicaid [no cost to participants] and those whose premiums are almost totally subsidized so they pay around $80 a month for what would be a $750 policy with very high deductibles and co-pays. No one who doesn’t qualify for these is willing to pay for ACA at face cost. It is government subsidized health care for the poor, and everyone else is paying for it. Including people with EGHPs.

            6. Stormy Dragon|9.22.17 @ 10:27AM|#
              “Obamacare didn’t effect employer insurance.”

              Says a stupid sack of shit.
              What an imbecile. Did you practice, or where your born this stupid?

              1. Skip your hate-spewing insults and tell us how.
                Can you post ANYTHING of substance?

            7. First of all, ACA imposes lots of requirements on employer-provided health coverage.

              Furthermore, businesses react to anticipated economic conditions, not actual economic conditions. My company planned for the cadillac tax long as soon as it was announced. The same is true for many other provisions of the ACA.

              In different words, you are a liar.

                1. Try a different sock-puppet, Hihn-tard.

        2. Please, tell me more about how it’s employers fault when all plans pre-ACA were outlawed overnight and mandated to have MORE benefits as a BASELINE of coverage.

          Idiot.

        3. Stormy Dragon|9.22.17 @ 10:15AM|#
          “Your employer changing plans had nothing to do with Obamacare.”

          Oh, no! It had to do with, uh,
          What a fucking imbecile.

          1. Behold the deep thinkers!

            BYODB |9.22.17 @ 12:17PM|#
            Idiot.

            Sevo|9.24.17 @ 12:23AM|#
            What a fucking imbecile.

            1. Dumbfuck Hihn-sano thinks he’s fooling people with his sock puppet. Use John Galt II for the next one, goofy!

              1. Behold the “deep thinkers!”

                BYODB |9.22.17 @ 12:17PM|#
                Idiot.

                Sevo|9.24.17 @ 12:23AM|#
                What a fucking imbecile

                Red Rocks White Privilege|9.24.17 @ 9:29AM|#
                Dumbfuck

                PROUD to be cyber-thugs!!

                1. Dumbfuck Captain Hihn-sano, PROUD to be a mewling pussy!

    3. Same here. My wife and I had a pre-ACA plan for $2,400 per year in 2012. In 2017? $11,000 per year! And everything is worse. The deductible, the doctors, the hospitals is all worse.

      If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.

    4. My experience was similar.

      Out of pocket expenses went up (which I’m alright with because, IMO, it is the only way we rein in spending.)

      But my payments also went up. Clearly that added money is not for my benefit.

      And whether it was Obamacare’s added mandates or Obamcare being an excuse really does not matter.

      Because either way Obamacare is the proximal cause for the changes.

  3. So first off, the GOP definitely wants to leave out to dry on killing the ACA.

    Second off, we shouldn’t dismiss Kimmel’s support of ACA like this. ACA is REALLY popular. I have a lot of complaints about it but we’re just not going to convince anyone by insisting “yeah you like it but actually it’s shit.”

    1. ….but we’re just not going to convince anyone by insisting “yeah you like it but actually it’s shit.”

      Amen – – leave the ACA alone and allow it to collapse by itself. Let’s see how the people are better off when the thing is a smoldering ruin. I think the bean counters said it would be another 18 months or so. Show the people how great socialism is when their copper or bronze insurance is $40,000 a year, and they go in for one annual checkup, and maybe a flu shot in November.

      1. The IRS administering fines for not buying an insurance policy should be the first thing to be eliminated. The rest will take care of itself.

        1. Who cares, the fine is way less than the yearly price of the insurance you would be forced to buy with or without subsidy.

          1. Give it time, it increases.

    2. “ACA is REALLY popular.”
      Among D congress critters.

    3. It’s hardly popular. Most people hate it. They just hate what’s replacing it more.

      1. They hate it even while they don’t understand it, much like how they hate what might replace it without understanding it either. At least, that seems accurate for most people I talk to.

        What’s important is the reason why they hate it. If you ask people, most of them probably can’t give you a meaningful answer or they will give you an appeal to emotion rooted in fallacy. If the reason why they hate it involves ‘it isn’t generous enough’ they are an idiot.

      2. Exactly this. I have a hard time defending the ACA replacement bills because they ARE worse than the ACA. But that doesn’t mean the ACA is good.

  4. Jimmy sucks, late night sucks. I actually liked Colbert when he was on Comedy Central pretending to be Bill O’Reilly each night – – the show today with him being himself isn’t that funny. I’m seriously tempted to buy the Johnny Carson box set they sell on late night informercials because the shit they have on late night today fucking blows.

    1. It’s not just late night, the I long for the days of Kimmel and Carola on the Man Show. I watched 5 minutes if the Orville last night and wanted to puke. Definitely a market opportunity for better entertainment.

      1. Ditto. Watched it on the advice of a family member.

        Not impressed.

        The whole world is just phoning it in these days.

        1. Watched the first episode of ‘The Orville’, there were two amusing moments but it follows a family sit-com structure rather than a sci-fi structure which is…about what I would expect from Seth Macfarlane. I think he has maybe half a dozen jokes that simply get rewritten a thousand times. That, and clearly the ‘edge’ factor on that show is going to be a negative value.

      2. Times were simpler when the Man Show was around. Girls on trampolines, old dudes chugging beers, 12 year old kids playing “Hey mister!” in front of liquor stores… Now guys cannot look at boobs, chugging beers is rape culture, and it is way too dangerous to have a kid ask people for booze as part of a tv skit.

        Jimmy Kimmel is now telling me about government healthcare insurance schemes… err policies. Sometimes I look at Jimmy and think, what happened to you?

        1. “Sometimes I look at Jimmy and think, what happened to you?”
          Jimmy who?

    2. Late night is for Adult Swim and Archer reruns.

    3. Trump’s win has ruined late night comedy for me. Still better the fawning over Hillary that would be going on instead.

  5. Jimmy was funny on the Man Show. Adam is still funny on his podcasts. Jimmy, however, has turned into a bitter old champagne socialist nut job who thinks the government should control your life.

    1. But the parties Jimmy gets invited to are so much better, and he gets to see his name mentioned approvingly in the New York Times!

      1. I doubt most celebutards give this any real thought. Kimmel, like the rest, enjoys his current position in the Hollywood gulag, so he sucks up and kisses the asses that he thinks will keep him relevant/employed.

        Because these people are far too in lockstep for it to be any other way.

    2. He was literally on TV bragging about how he is in the Hollywood elite and how some GOPer would never be invited into the Hollywood elite. He said it as a joke, but there was no punch line. It was then and there I realized whatever was left of the Man Show Jimmy Kimmel is dead.

      1. So the cocktail parties are real!

    3. Adam’s still funny, but he does repeat himself a lot.

    4. Jimmy, however, has turned into a bitter old champagne socialist nut job who thinks the government should control your life.

      I suspect whatever testosterone and sense of personal responsibility he once possessed was leeched out by Sarah Silverman when they were dating.

  6. Late night comedy: it’s not just comedy, it’s politics!

    Ugh. Stop.

    1. Everybody wants to be Jon Stewart. I would prefer they be Craig Kilborn. Or Craig Ferguson, for that matter.

  7. Jimmy Kimmel has a child born with a life-threatening health condition and so becomes an expert on healthcare and health insurance. Got it.

    1. Trump is duly elected over the course of several months, over the opposition of a score of seasoned politicians and despite consistent iterative movements to stop him at most every turn.

      Jimmy Kimmel’s kid has a life-threatening condition that’s readily and affordably treatable and everybody should just take his words and do their damnedest to convert it to policy.

      Fuck Kimmel, I’d say he should go write a song like Tears In Heaven or All of My Love to sing himself to sleep at night except his kid’s alive and you’re nowhere near that talented.

      1. He’s nowhere near that talented.

      2. Internet libertarianism. Where “haha, your kid is still alive” is considered a total burn.

        1. Talk about missing the point .

          Internet socialism. Where missing the point is the argument.

    2. It’s not rocket science, and when it directly affects you intelligent folks can become quite the expert. Because it directly affected someone I cared about, I became an expert in a certain type of cancer. I could tell you pretty much everything known by 99% of the medical community. Your shooting the messenger with an argument like this is intellectual malpractice.

      1. Except he’s pimping Obamacare when he, himself, does not use it at all.

        He doesn’t know shit about Obamacare.

      2. Having an emotional stake in something does not necessarily make your opinion correct. It may, in fact, be reason to suspect your objectivity.

        1. My father was murdered- therefore, I feel I should be in charge of designing a capital punishment policy for the whole country.

      3. “I could tell you pretty much everything known by 99% of the medical community.”
        You don’t really believe this. But suggesting people should understand a subject before giving others advice, puts you in agreement with most posters here.

        1. You don’t really believe this.

          He may and he may not be wrong. The key difference, though, is that when you contract a disease and bone up on all the research and get abreast of the medical community, it does little to put you ahead of the insurance, legal, and moral communities, etc.

          Kimmel may, at this point, be a bona fide heart surgeon capable of reconstructing his own son’s heart. Unfortunately as 99% of the rest of humanity (both laymen and experts) can tell you, unless he’s actually employed by a hospital to do the work, it means fuck all with regard to Obamacare.

          1. Even if he’s actually employed by a hospital to do the work, it still means fuck all with regard to Obamacare. I don’t expect my doctor (or even a non-licensed bona fide heart surgeon capable of reconstructing his own son’s heart) to understand fuck all regarding costs, insurance, billing, or Obamacare. I expect my doctor to worry about medicine, and members of his office staff and my insurance company to worry about everything else.

    3. Is that not similar to how Jenny McCarthy became an expert on autism causing vaccines?

  8. I, for one, disagree that all babies should be preserved at any cost. I don’t know what the right cost is, but there is a line somewhere that says enough. The same with old farts like me. We could extend everyone’s life by 10-20 years with expensive surgeries and drugs, but the cost would be astronomical. Who foots the bill when the individual can’t pay and may not be a net contributor in the future?

    1. Marcus Aurelius|9.22.17 @ 10:01AM|#
      “I, for one, disagree that all babies should be preserved at any cost. I don’t know what the right cost is, but there is a line somewhere that says enough.”

      I’d rather that cost be determined by those paying it rather than a bureaucrat. Or an un-funny comic.

    2. We could extend everyone’s life by 10-20 years with expensive surgeries and drugs, but the cost would be astronomical.

      Um, that’s exactly what is happening right now.

    3. No one pays, they are left to die as the surgery/life saving medication is a limited good thus your future projected valued to society is what determines if you will receive care.

      Obviously, a 90 year senator who needs a new heart would take precedence over a mentally challenged 15 year old who needs the same because the Senator is ‘more important’ and is ultimately in control over the money that pays for healthcare.

      This is such a well know truism that you need to be willfully stupid to think otherwise. Nationalized Healthcare is the ultimate in utilitarian considerations and corruption where only the proles truly suffer.

      If you have the ‘right’ to someone’s education and services, but there is no one to provide them, what good does that ‘right’ do you exactly? ‘Healthcare’ does not exist in nature.

  9. Not a single person would be “kicked off” his or her insurance. Rather, the Congressional Budget Office review of the AHCA found that of the 24 million Americans who would no longer have health insurance after an Obamacare repeal, 14 million would choose not to buy insurance in 2018 in the absence of a penalty. And if Obamacare were not repealed, the CBO projects another 6 million people would voluntarily leave the Obamacare markets. Now, if you don’t believe Americans should be afforded the choice to leave or not buy insurance, just say that. No one is being kicked off.

    A utilitarian argument looking at the negatives of government healthcare and arguing the exceed the benefits would be something. A moral argument that even if government healthcare were a net benefit that it’s wrong to take money by force to finance it would be something.

    Instead we get bullshit arguments that everything will be candy canes and unicorns that are so mendacious it makes it sound like even libertarians don’t really believe what they say. Do you seriously think that 14 million is actively wants to not have coverage and is excitedly looking forward to the opportunity?

    1. Do you seriously think that 14 million is actively wants to not have coverage and is excitedly looking forward to the opportunity?

      But a lot of people who have “insurance” under Obamacare have a policy that doesn’t actually cover anything. Insane premiums AND deductibles. How is an insurance that costs so much it is unusable any better than no insurance?

      1. It can be worse because you’re paying for something you can’t use when you could use the money elsewhere. It’s like being forced to pay sky high car insurance premiums for Fred Flintstone’s car.

    2. “Do you seriously think that 14 million is actively wants to not have coverage and is excitedly looking forward to the opportunity?”

      YES! They would rather spend their money elsewhere and pay as needed.

      That’s not a hard concept buddy.

      1. What they actively want is to spend their money on something else, rather than paying for “coverage” which doesn’t actually provide them a benefit commensurate with the cost.

  10. Why is this idiot given so much credence?

    1. You know the saying “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”? For “grease,” substitute “Facebook likes from simple folks.”

    2. Agreed, I don’t know why they continue to publish Harsanyi when all he does is bitch about the low hanging fruit in the media.

      Also, Kimmel’s a moron.

  11. “Not a single person would be “kicked off” his or her insurance…. of the 24 million Americans who would no longer have health insurance after an Obamacare repeal, 14 million would choose not to buy insurance in 2018 in the absence of a penalty. And if Obamacare were not repealed, the CBO projects another 6 million people would voluntarily leave the Obamacare markets.”

    Something’s off with the math or logic here. If 14m voluntarily leave, what’s the story with the other 10m? And without accounting for them, how do you conclude “not a single person would be kicked off”?

    Not trying to make a point, actually asking. Something’s missing here.

  12. Who is this Jimmy Kimmel? Must be a lefty nobody.

    1. When I was 11ish he was the host of this show called The Man Show and Jimmy Kimmel was the co-host. Every episode they would show girls in bikinis jumping on trampolines and all chug their beers at the end of the episode. I felt more like a man by watching the show. Now when I see Jimmy Kimmel, I see a whiny, condescending, smug jerk that he would have been making fun of 15 years ago.

      1. When Adam Carolla left and Jimmy stayed on, the Man Show became appreciably worse.

        1. Adam and Jimmy both left The Man Show at the same time and were replaced with Seth Rogan and Doug Stanhope.

          But thanks for more “facts I completly made up because they’d be real convenient for my argument if they were true”.

          1. I remembered Stanhope. Didn’t remember Rogan. I’m assuming fucking the well-used pussy of Sarah Silverman killed off whatever humor he once had.

          2. Speaking of fake news, Joe Rogan. Not Seth Rogan.

        2. When Adam Carolla left and Jimmy stayed on, the Man Show became appreciably worse.

          Jimmy Kimmel and Ben Stein jointly played the part of Alex Trebek on Stein’s game show and it was never entirely clear who was the straight man.

          Jimmy Kimmel, as a comedian, is about as entertaining as an Ivy League lawyer.

  13. Let’s take your argument to its logical conclusion. Only people who can afford and want to buy health insurance should do so. Everyone else can just fly naked. Our current laws generally that no one can be turned away if they need healthcare so providers have to provide. They chase the non-insured to pay their bills but if they can’t collect from them, they simply charge the insured patients more unnecessary fees to make up for what they can’t collect or they turn to the federal or state coffers to pay for the uninsured who don’t have any money. In either case, guess who pays for all that healthcare for the uninsured? The insured and the taxpayers. Except the system of charging and collections is choking on it’s own opaqueness and inefficiency. Premiums continue to climb and less people can afford insurance. Meanwhile medical care is denied to people who remain in denial about their health because they can’t afford to see a doctor. Chronic conditions become acute and unnecessary healthcare dollars are spent on the increased severity. Oh, and lots of people die unnecessarily. But they’re victims of their own poor choices in life, right?

    Yeah, anyone can play this game but most don’t play very well. I’d say your play didn’t hold a candle to Kimmel.

    1. Shorter WinstonV: “Cheap emotionalism is more satisfying to indulge than any examination of root causes, so let’s have more of that.”

      1. Well we wouldn’t want to succumb to cheap emotionalism unlike Republicans with their sober, meticulous approach to healthcare policy these past 8 years.

        1. Have you ever wondered, in a long responsive thread, when Michael Hihn has exhausted his pointlessness, Tony shows up, to intone in like fashion? They are both and the same. You’ve been outed my little queer, again.

    2. Our current laws generally that no one can be turned away if they need healthcare so providers have to provide.

      This is one of those things that people say a lot despite clearly not being true. If you show up in an emergency room, having a medical crisis, yes, they have to stabilize you. But they don’t have to treat the underlying condition that caused the crisis.

      If you have a coronary and don’t have coverage, they’ll resuscitate you and send you home with a prescription for blood thinners so that you die slower. They’re not required to give you a free bypass operation.

      1. Most people can live a productive life with blood thinners.

        This is half the problem. People have heart problems, and they immediately get the most effective (and expensive) treatment available to them. My dad could have gone on nitro pills, but he got an angeoplasty instead because he insurance was willing to pay for it. Because price is really never considered by the individual, there is no incentive for the market to find cheaper alternatives.

        In a world where most people chose nitro pills because they were price sensitive, pharma and other medical companies would be figuring out cheaper ways to deliver something more effective at cheaper prices. We know this because we see exactly these innovations happening in the world of elective medical procedures, such as cosmetic surgery and vision correction. Practitioners in those fields simply have to figure out how to offer a compelling treatment in the $2000 – $8000 price range, because that is all people are willing and able to pay.

      2. And, unsurprisingly, no one will ever get a free bypass operation unless a surgeon decides to do so. Surgeon’s aren’t going to work for peanuts, and there aren’t enough of them to give away free operations to everyone who needs one.

        Meet scarcity, the thing that people like you pretend doesn’t exist.

        1. If someone shows up at the ER with a heart attack with a valve blockage, yes, a surgeon will do an angioplasty. This happened to a friend of mine. He was even semi awake and watched as they pulled a clot out of his coronary artery. I don’t know if they even do bypass operations anymore. A bypass surgery would be upwards of $100,000 easily.

          1. CABG is way more rare than it was even just twenty years ago.

            This is largely thanks to improvements in thrombolytic agents, angioplasty, and yes blood thinners like low molecular weight heparins, and anti factor X agents. Stay lengths for MI – regardless of payer – are down across the board.

            Not that Stormy knows fuck all about an of this.

      3. And they’ll send you a bill for $10,000.

      4. “If you have a coronary and don’t have coverage, they’ll resuscitate you and send you home with a prescription for blood thinners so that you die slower.”

        What a piece of whiny shit!
        If you *have* coverage, you might well get the same. Guess, what, you idiot, EVERYBODY dies and nothing the government does has any effect on that.
        Reality is a bitch to lefty dimbulbs.

      5. More:
        “If you have a coronary and don’t have coverage, they’ll resuscitate you and send you home with a prescription for blood thinners so that you die slower. They’re not required to give you a free bypass operation.”

        The above bit of whine is worth reading again.
        SD, an obvious econ ignoramus, is whining that those who have not bought insurance are treated differently than those who have.
        Hey, SD! Guess what? Those who bought better service get better service! Is this a surprise to you? How fucking stupid are you?

    3. It looks like you’re saying that even though Obamacare made the system of delivering healthcare worse, by contributing to increased costs and removing none of the very things that make those costs go up, we should still hold on to it.

      Keep in mind that Kimmel’s treading into territory that he’s only just learned about because of his son’s condition–as a result, he’s figured out that he can get cheap pops on his TV show by demanding that everyone get top-of-the-line healthcare without any indication of how to pay for it except taxing people in his income bracket (hey, maybe there’s a place for that 98 percent “entertainment industry surtax” after all!). There’s no discussion of what has specifically caused increases in the cost of healthcare in this country–namely, the lack of price transparency by medical providers, who treat public and private insurance plans like a free money pool; the cartel-like behavior of the FDA on limiting medications; and a severe restriction in the supply of doctors and medical facilities in a country that’s staring down the barrel of a population gun in the form of aging baby boomers.

      It’s easy for sheltered knobs like Kimmel to appeal to people’s emotions, but when he doesn’t back it up with an understanding of the underlying causes, anyone who takes his arguments seriously ought to be mocked for the rubes that they are.

  14. Are we at the libertarian moment yet?

    (Sorry to be such a downer.)

    1. Ask the guy in Nevada who’s waiting in line to buy his heavily taxed and government regulated toilet paper marijuana.

  15. I’d pay money to hear Kimmel and Carolla debate health care.

    I don’t think either one of them knows very much about policy, but they’re close enough friends that you could hear a human conversation instead of “Liar!” “Asshole!” and whatever else passes for healthcare debate.

  16. he occasionally accuses Republicans of being would-be baby killers

    I’m sure the irony is lost on him and his audience.

    “Coverage for all? No. Fact, it will kick about 30 million Americans off insurance.”

    I see we are still conflating health insurance and healthcare.

    it was all about cheap zero-sum emotionalism.

    It’s really all they (illiberals and regressives) have.

    Kimmel doesn’t believe Americans deserve the chance to reduce the cost of health care with market-based reforms on the state level, or in giving states any flexibility in catering their plans to their own citizens.

    Like most illiberals and regressives, Kimmel does not believe in individual freedom. He does not “think”, he emotes.

  17. I still like hacks like Stetler of CNN claiming that Kimmel’s comment about “pounding” Brian Kilmeade of FNC was a promise to do a fist bump.

    Yeah, I take their gnashing whining about violence against the media seriously.

    And Kimmel…like all of late night TV…is shit.

  18. “Yes, everyone agrees. As far as I know, there isn’t a single politician in America who has ever supported allowing babies to die because they are born with birth defects, even if the parents can’t pay. Not pre-Obamacare, and not post-Obamacare.”

    Sorry, that’s totally untrue. Every libertarian, and there are many, who insists that health insurance is not a right implicitly assents to the argument that if you can’t afford it, you don’t get it. This principle doesn’t make exceptions for “really sad cases”. If every baby born with a birth defect is entitled to health care, how about every mommy with cancer? I’m sure Kimmel’s arguments are overstated, but as Peter Suderman, and virtually every health care organization has pointed out, the current Republican health care “legislation” is total crap.

    1. “Charities will take care of them ALL, literally ALL, if we just got government out of the way.”

      The fact that this is a completely unjustified assumption, not to say obviously impossible, doesn’t matter–it frees libertarians from having to confront reality, which would just give them a headache.

      1. The Kent Snyder case is informative here. Long time campaign manager for Ron Paul died of pneumonia at age 49, leaving his family with $400,000 in medical debt. A medical fund was set up to help… it raised $14,000 dollars.

        Libertarian “charity” couldn’t even raise enough to treat one person who they had personally known for decades. But we’re supposed to believe that would scale up to cover healthcare for all poor people?


        1. Libertarian “charity” couldn’t even raise enough to treat one person who they had personally known for decades. But we’re supposed to believe that would scale up to cover healthcare for all poor people?

          You’re starting from a flawed premise, in that you assume that charity will cover healthcare for all poor people. It won’t. Nothing will.

          Amusingly, a nationalized healthcare system and/or the ACA won’t cover healthcare for all poor people either. You expect perfection from individual action and decisions while forgetting that universal coverage doesn’t equal universal care which is what most of the disingenuous talking heads are saying. I guess that’s all you are, a talking head ‘best of’ track.

        2. “Libertarian “charity” couldn’t even raise enough to treat one person who they had personally known for decades. But we’re supposed to believe that would scale up to cover healthcare for all poor people?”

          Libertarian “charity” hasn’t solved world hunger, either, but WIH is that supposed to mean?
          Besides which, I certainly hope he had insurance, as most all of us who take responsibility for our lives do.
          BTW, your whine is distinctly lower shelf; $3.00/bottle.

    2. You give the appearance of having not read any of the numerous things to which you allude. Please read more before speaking for “every libertarian … who insists that health insurance is not a right” yes that’s many of us and yes many of us still have advocated for systems that provide care to the disadvantaged.

      1. Hihn is an ignorant old piece of shit who seems to get drunk early and hits the shift an bold keys as he spouts his bullshit.
        He is best ignored; he’s pathetic.

        1. He’s not that old, but a lot fatter than the fake pic on his fake website.

    3. But if you look at England’s National Healthcare System there was a case where not only were they allowing the young patient to die but forbid the parents from taking him to the US for treatment that may have saved him.

    4. “Every libertarian, and there are many, who insists that health insurance is not a right implicitly assents to the argument that if you can’t afford it, you don’t get it.”

      Rely on the imbecile Vanneman to get outraged at a statement of fact.
      Yes, dim-bulb, medical insurance is a good; you might not be able to afford it. And it has been made far more expensive than it should be by government meddling, starting with Truman keeping wages fixed after WWII. And here you want more of that.
      So, please, take your ignorant whining about free shit and stuff it where the sun doesn’t shine.

  19. Out of curiosity, didn’t Obama promise BILLIONS in savings from stopping Medicare fraud?

    Whatever happened to that?

    1. I don’t think he promised it. I think he claimed that it had happened. (Or perhaps he promised it and then claimed it happened.)

      More specifically, the claim was that increased funding for the Senior Medicare Patrol had allowed HHS to recover $4.1 billion in 2011 vs. $2.14 billion in 2008. I don’t know if the numbers are accurate or if there are other factors that explain this difference, but we should at least get the claim right.

      (More here: https://obamawhitehouse. DELETE SPACE archives.gov/blog/2012/02/14/obama DELETE SPACE -administration-s- DELETE SPACE unprecedented-fraud-fighting-pays )

      1. “…I don’t know if the numbers are accurate or if there are other factors that explain this difference, but we should at least get the claim right….”

        Did you show up here since you noticed we are lacking in pedants?

    2. “Whatever happened to that?”

      Same thing that happened to the doctor you liked; he was lying through his teeth and knew it.

  20. Should have given out Kimmel’s number in the article!

  21. The real disheartening news is that Jimmy Kimmel was able to reproduce with the help of government.

  22. “Not a single person would be ‘kicked off’ his or her insurance.”

    Great point. People who have insurance today but would not have it under Graham-Cassidy wouldn’t be “kicked off” of insurance. They’d merely have the freedom not to be able to afford it. This is a very important, highly meaningful distinction.

    Oh, wait. It isn’t.

    1. So, Medicaid is ‘insurance’ now? I guess that’s true, if you consider a provider taking a loss by seeing them and passing that price increase on to someone with ‘actual’ insurance a good thing.

      1. It’s interesting that progs defend Obamacare by pointing out how people were able to get on Medicaid, but ignore the people in the economic tiers just above that line who are getting cornholed every month paying for plans that are more expensive and cover less than what they had before.

        Obamacare is mainly a wealth-distribution scheme by cosmopolitan elites to their underclass base of support by leeching off money from the middle-class to pay for medical welfare.

    2. “Great point. People who have insurance today but would not have it under Graham-Cassidy wouldn’t be “kicked off” of insurance. They’d merely have the freedom not to be able to afford it. This is a very important, highly meaningful distinction.”

      Sorta like under O-care, right?

  23. People listening to jimmy kimmel is the problem with health care policy. They get to vote to rob you to pay for Jimmy Kimmel’s son’s healthcare. Oh wait, he paid for his superior care himself? So what does this have to do with the national debate? FUCKING NOTHING.

    No one should get a vote, because they just use to rob you and rape you in the ass. Your opinion DOES NOT MERIT RESPECT because you probably fucking listen to Jimmy Fucking Kimmel about insurance policy.

    Fuck you all, and fuck democracy. I want a king who doesn’t listen to these fucking robber proles.

  24. I don’t think you were responding to me, but to clarify, I have been self-employed and paying my own insurance since 2005. I initially paid COBRA costs then learned that I could get cheaper insurance (didn’t cover everything, but it was so much cheaper I changed) through a catastrophic plan. I have ALWAYS had health insurance. I need insurance, IMO, because I have 5 kids and God forbid if something happens to them, I need to protect them. If it was just me, I would just put the $2100 aside for a rainy day and just say screw it. Well, except for the penalty tax which is crazy.

  25. It’s weird that the people who actually like Obamacare are not enrolled in it. If you want to see someone pop a vein in his head, talk to a person who has had to enroll.

  26. “Yes, everyone agrees. As far as I know, there isn’t a single politician in America who has ever supported allowing babies to die because they are born with birth defects, even if the parents can’t pay. Not pre-Obamacare, and not post-Obamacare.”

    Of course there are millions of liberals that think the baby should die because it’s an inconvenience…

  27. “Yes, everyone agrees. As far as I know, there isn’t a single politician in America who has ever supported allowing babies to die because they are born with birth defects, even if the parents can’t pay. Not pre-Obamacare, and not post-Obamacare.”

    Of course there are millions of liberals that think the baby should die because it’s an inconvenience…

  28. 24 minus 20 equals 4…so what about that 4 million?

    During his rant, Kimmel helpfully pointed out this wasn’t his area of expertise, so it’s comforting that millions will make their judgements based on his analysis.

    Lastly, preexisting conditions cost more, so acting outraged that they’d be asked to pay more makes you look clueless. It amounts to arguing with McDonald’s for charging you more for those extra cheeseburgers simply because you’re really hungry.

  29. RE: Don’t Fall for Jimmy Kimmel’s Cheap Zero-Sum Emotionalism
    His political rants could be written by any liberal activist.

    I hate to bring the news to you David, but liberal activists are the ones who write Kimmel’s comments.

  30. Kimmel needs to sit his as down, shut his fat mouth and listen to his friend Adam Corolla (something of a conservative, small business owner) explain to him why he is a fucking retard on the order of Chelsea Handler.

  31. Late night is for losers. But then so is day time.

    And then there’s prime time tv. Ugh.

  32. Jimmy hasn’t been funny since noineteen noinety noine.

  33. Okay, A) it doesn’t need to be true, its comedy, dammit. Lighten up. B) he gets this completely backwards. as a card carrying member of the media elite he had the money to take care of a marginal case that some actuary could have deemed an inefficient use of money, and C) it looks like “the man show” was Jimmy Kimmel at his funniest, which is… not great.

    1. D) Senator Cassidy was a fucking liar, Why does that confuse you people?

  34. Yes, everyone agrees. As far as I know, there isn’t a single politician in America who has ever supported allowing babies to die because they are born with birth defects, even if the parents can’t pay. Not pre-Obamacare, and not post-Obamacare.

    Really? Without limits? Do you support spending $10 million to give a baby with serious birth defects two years of miserable life?

    1. 1) Nobody said without limits
      2) $10 million is even crazier.
      3) Why do the elderly have more rights in your fascist paradise?

      1. How many socks do you have, Mike?

  35. I fail to understand why Jimmy Kimmel’s opinions on this is more newsworthy than that of Christopher c. Morton, William a. Levinson, or Joshua Black.

  36. Who defines “adequate and affordable”? Nah, it just allows states to pass up on the pre-existing conditions bit. Who doesn’t have a pre-existing condition? This is a gift to the insurance companies in any states where they have a good lobby.

    Nothing that doesn’t address healthcare and drug prices via pro-competitive and anti-monopoly measures approaches solving health care accessibility.

  37. I fucking hate Kimmel, fuck that control freak, over emoting scumbag. Just because your kid is fucking sick doesn’t mean you need to control the rest of us. What a fucking Hollywood, elistist dick head, I am sick of these late night bottom feeders.

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