59 U.S. Missiles Launched at Syria, Bipartisan War Boners Raging, Russia Vows to Help Syria Protect Itself: A.M. Links

• 

  Seaman Ford Williams/U.S. Navy/Cover Images/Newscom

  The U.S. launched more than 50 missiles at Syria Thursday night, basically on Donald Trump's whim. The strike was similar to what Barack Obama proposed in 2013, which Congress then opposed. Many of those same lawmakers, including Democrats, are now cheering the Trump administration's move, which marks the first direct American assault on Bashar al-Assad's government since the start of the Syrian civil war in 2011.

• According to the Russian Defense Ministry, only 23 out of 50 U.S. missiles hit their targets. Four Syrians were killed in the attack, six Syrian planes were destroyed, and one airport runway ruined. Russian officials also said they will help the Assad regime strengthen Syria's air defenses. The Syrian military, meanwhile, says that the U.S. is now a "partner" of groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS.
• Sen. Rand Paul condemned the bombing. "While we all condemn the atrocities in Syria, the United States was not attacked," Paul said in a statement. "The President needs congressional authorization for military action as required by the Constitution, and I call on him to come to Congress for a proper debate," Paul said. "Our prior interventions in this region have done nothing to make us safer, and Syria will be no different."
• Here's how Paul Ryan responded

This action in Syria was appropriate and just.

My full statement: pic.twitter.com/oIlOT65zTC

— Paul Ryan (@SpeakerRyan) April 7, 2017

• And here's Hillary Clinton voicing her support.
• Twitter is suing the U.S. government to avoid revealing the identity of an anonymous user who has posted Trump-critical statements and claims to work inside a government agency.
• A new Justice Department subcommittee will study "hate crimes."
• Liberal-leaning readers of science books "prefer basic sciences, such as physics, astronomy, and zoology, while conservatives prefer books on applied and commercial science, such as medicine, criminology, and geophysics," according to a new study.
• The U.S. Food and Drug Administration will allow 23andMe to sell genetic tests that measure disease risk directly to consumers.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The U.S. launched 50 missiles at Syria Thursday night...

Finally, a distraction from Trump's personal failings.

[Memory Hole]

He's fulfilling his campaign promises!

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

[timbo]

If you don't like war, you're a pussy. USA!

Because terrorism and our government's job is to keep us safe.
We can't let the Russians look strong because that makes us look weak.
The leader of the free world has to make a statement in the face of such atrocities.
There were kids there.
They hate freedom, which makes so much sense. For some reason, people in the middle east do not like being free to do what they want.

We have to support and justify the jobs of all of the people who work for the military industrial complex. They have to make profits or they cannot buy hookers and blow for politicians and lobbyists. We have to send thousands of twenty year olds to their deaths because people hate our freedom so much that they themselves don't like freedom.

War is peace bitches. Get used to it. The next president is going to make Fidel Castro seem like a nice guy.

[gaoxiaen]

As far as applied sciences go, I definitely recommend "Understanding Police Culture" by John P. Crank. Many cops refused to cooperate or answer his questions. It might possibly save you beaucoup bucks and maybe a few years.

[gaoxiaen]

If you "Look Inside" on Amazon, you'll find it very interesting.

[DanO.]

Fox & Friends need new panties stat!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I Hillary Clinton supported it, I guess I realize now I should have voted for Her.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This action in Syria was appropriate and just.

"Remember my healthcare debacle? This is much more important to focus on."

[Karen24]

The March jobs report was underwhelming, so this happens.

[DJF]

So was Trumps bombing of Syria part of Putin's plan to take over the world?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Connect. The. Dots.

[Zeb]

He's obviously trying to start a war with Russia so that he can deliberately lose the war so Russia can take over the world. Any idiot knows that.

[Memory Hole]

Its a funny world Turkey attacked a Russian jet and then a month later Putin and Erdogan were butt fucking in Ankara. It worked the same way when I used to get in fistfights. You would beat the shit out of each other and then you were like best friends with the guy after the fight. You'd be surprised the way human psychology works.

[Not a True MJG]

It's easy to let bygones be bygones when you're not the jet pilot.

[Zeb]

Yeah, I'm not quite sure that's a very good insight into how human psychology works. It certainly doesn't usually work that way among nation states.

[timbo]

Clearly putin hacked those missles and we are so embarrassed, we took credit for it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

And here's Hillary Clinton voicing her support.

Who doesn't love a good bombing with the appearance of moral justification?

[Memory Hole]

It's good thing we didn't elect a warmonger.

[Zeb]

Instead we just elected someone who just does shit at random.

[Citizen X - #6]

And gets bipartisan praise for it, sometimes.

[chemjeff]

I know, right? I mean, Hillary was going to start a war with Russia over Syria. Thank heavens we dodged that bullet!

[Zeb]

Out of the frying pan, into the fire, as they say.

I wonder if proving that he's not in cahoots with Putin was any part of his motivation.

[BYODB]

Yeah, this erased one of the reasons I was somewhat ambivalent about Trump. I had hoped he wouldn't be stupid enough to goad Russia with missiles.

Now he's solidly in the 'I can't stand the guy' column instead of the 'what a jackass' column. It appears that the only other reason I was ambivalent still holds, in that his Supreme Court picks are slightly better, but in every other way he's basically a less cogent Hillary Clinton.

It would be great if his Supreme Court would slap him down for firing off missiles without the approval of Congress, but honestly I'm pretty damn sure they all approve so...shit.

[Zeb]

Who would have standing to sue the president for unconstitutional use of force, I wonder? Anyone?

[BYODB]

Damn it, Reason! It ate part of my response:

I imagine you're 100% right and Trump wants to put to bed rumors that he's a KGB agent and this was an opportunity to kill two birds with one SCUD (or whatever they used).

[gaoxiaen]

"Not fast enough".
Neo

[Fist of Etiquette]

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration will allow 23andMe to sell genetic tests that measure disease risk directly to consumers.

What if I want to measure the indirect risk of disease?

[gaoxiaen]

You ever heard of a condom?

[DanO.]

Barack Obama proposed in 2013, which Congress then opposed

That doesn't count. Obama was weak. Trump is strong. He is a strong man. A strongman.

[WakaWaka]

Obama also said he can attack unilaterally. He only deferred to Congress after Cameron consulted parliament before participating (which voted down the proposal).

Look, you can oppose the action, as all sensible people should, without defending your messiah. You're such a hack.

[DanO.]

You're such a hack.

hahahahaha

[Fist of Etiquette]

A new Justice Department subcommittee will study "hate crimes."

Meh. Wake me when they start looking into indifference crimes.

[timbo]

Hate crime math:

2 + 2 = More 4

[DJF]

So 50 missiles are sent, 23 arrive, and there is only a half dozen casualties at the base.

I see the Navy priority on social justice causes is working out well.

[Memory Hole]

I so interested to know what happened at that base once when we told the Russians we were attacking. Did Russians evacuate? Were the Syrian soldiers informed? We have to find this out.

[DJF]

Sounds like most of the Syrian solders were either evacuated or in deep shelters if only 6 were killed. They could not leave the base empty, so some had to stay

50 one thousand pound warheads don't seem to have caused as much damage as I would think.

[Memory Hole]

The base is about to be attacked and we're leaving but you stay to guard the place so that our enemies don't sneak in here before the missiles land. Haha.

[Memory Hole]

The Americans will destroy this base in an hour but we need you guys to stick around to make sure the terrorists doesn't sneak in here before the missiles land. Yes sir!

[Free Society]

Apparently they were targeting fueling systems, aircraft and runways.

[mashed potatoes]

I haven't heard what happened to the remaining missiles. When i saw they launched 59, i assume it was to insure the attack would penetrate the S400 russian air defense. Did Syrian/russian air defense actually shoot down 36 cruise missiles or were they just off target? were did the remaining missiles land?

[DJF]

Or was it that the day maintenance was scheduled for those missiles they instead held lectures about sexual harassment

[MikeP2]

so we're believing the Russians about how many missiles landed?

[MikeP2]

so we're believing the Russians about how many missiles landed?

[Gadfly]

Well, the Russians claim only 23 missiles hit their targets, but the US claims 58 of the 59 hit their target. Both sides are equally capable (due to surveillance capacity) of assessing the damage, and both sides would have a reason to spin things in their favor. I'm inclined to believe the US over Russia.

[BYODB]

It seems to me that it's doubtful that the Russian's actually knew what the exact targets were (even if they have a pretty good idea). I imagine the Russian's are counting missiles that clearly hit targets the Russian's thought were reasonable targets. The rest? Did any of these 'extra' missiles happen to hit any prime locations for a future hotel?

/sarc

[DanO.]

According to the Russian Defense Ministry, only 23 out of 50 U.S. missiles hit their targets.

Furthermore, all those Putin critics died of natural causes.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

They say the other missiles are still flying.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Liberal-leaning readers of science books "prefer basic sciences, such as physics, astronomy, and zoology, while conservatives prefer books on applied and commercial science, such as medicine, criminology, and geophysics," according to a new study.

What does this tell us? Why, it confirms all of your long held beliefs about your ideological opposites.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

Exclusive: Trump eyes new chief of staff; House Leader on short list

President Trump is considering a broad shakeup of his White House that could include the replacement of White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and the departure of chief strategist Steve Bannon, aides and advisers tell us.

A top aide to Trump said he's contemplating major changes, but that the situation is very fluid and the timing uncertain: "Things are happening, but it's very unclear the president's willing to pull that trigger."

Fun fact: I am scheduled to become Trump's chief of staff in late 2019.

[$park? leftist poser]

I think they're talking about a different staff.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Fluid situations and uncertain timing are two things I just can't associate with Donald Trump.

[ThomasD]

Don't you mean situation timing and uncertain fluids?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I do now.

[Zeb]

the replacement of White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus

That's good. I'm still not sure how you are supposed to pronounce his name.

[$park? leftist poser]

Either Raintss or Ryentss. Or something else.

[Zeb]

I go with ray-een-say, because I assume everything that looks sort of foreign is in Spanish.

And I'm not sure how many syllables Priebus should have.

[$park? leftist poser]

Just pretend it's Latin and pronounce it Ray-in-kay Pry-eh-boose.

[gaoxiaen]

Rancid Probush.

[gaoxiaen]

He's another Ed Failure.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

To be more specific, Crusty is scheduled to join Trump's staff after his chinchilla roommate is fired.

[Citizen X - #6]

The Syrian military, meanwhile, says that the U.S. is now a "partner" of groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS.

Funny, Mikey was saying the same thing yesterday. When he wasn't claiming that Crusty and i are the same person or that Scalia was murdered by a conspiracy of all of the Democrats, that is.

[DanO.]

I thought you were Mary. No?

[Zeb]

No. That's you. Everyone else is Tulpa.

[DanO.]

I thought I was Weigel.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"The President needs congressional authorization for military action as required by the Constitution, and I call on him to come to Congress for a proper debate," Paul said.

He would have been the political villain in any season of 24.

[timbo]

If Paul actually stands on principle of small government, less spending, and ani-interventionism, we will see an all out war soon on libertarianism from both parties with the complicit press. They will go back to the old playbook to erase any progress jointly and all media will go back to calling libertarians whackos again. It is just so easy to predict anymore.

Paul could take his dad's place as a real man if he continues to battle the budget farce, healthcare, and war. If he becomes the most hated man in Washington, I will like him again.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Pictures of dead children make for better ratings than do footage of principled debate.

[Not a True MJG]

But better ratings than a 50 year old in a turtleneck?

[timbo]

Agreed fists. I'm not counting on Paul to become his dad.
All I am saying is this is his moment to be the last elected official in Washington with any press clout that could actually stand for liberty and free markets.

I think now that it is finally obvious to anyone paying attention that trump is a new establishment guy all along, being the only thorn in his side can show the hypocrisy of the left once and for all to the retards of the world.

Anyone with an IQ that is not embarrassing should have figured out what a sham the GOP has been since 1992.

[BYODB]

What 'Progress' has the Libertarian brand had recently? There are some libertarian leaning people in Congress and a few in the Senate, but during the last election Rand was forced to drop out and Johnson didn't even get 5% of the vote. Not sure about that progress, even though I wish you were right.

[Citizen X - #6]

And here's Hillary Clinton voicing her support.

"I would have done it better, though."

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

EPA staffer leaves with a bang, blasting agency policies under Trump

"I, along with many EPA staff, are becoming increasing alarmed about the direction of EPA under your leadership ? " Cox said in a letter to Pruitt. "The policies this Administration is advancing are contrary to what the majority of the American people, who pay our salaries, want EPA to accomplish, which are to ensure the air their children breath is safe; the land they live, play, and hunt on to be free of toxic chemicals; and the water they drink, the lakes they swim in, and the rivers they fish in to be clean."

For two decades, the fit 60-year-old rode his bike eight miles to the ferry, then uphill to his Seattle office.

He can get away with being so blunt because he sent the letter on his last day on the job.

[Citizen X - #6]

The only appropriate response.

[Rhywun]

I hope that's a clip of a door hitting someone on their way out.

[Citizen X - #6]

That would be more like this, perhaps?

[DJF]

"""""then uphill to his Seattle office"""

But then the lazy bureaucrat rode downhill on the way home!

[ace_m82]

Generally speaking, any building ought to be built above the waterway a ferry would go over. Also, that means that it's quite likely he rode downhill to the ferry and uphill from the ferry, regardless or direction. So it was journalistic nonsense.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Doesn't he know how much CO2 bridge burning releases into the atmosphere.

[Zeb]

Oooh, that'll show 'em.

And he can't even spell "breathe".

[Rhywun]

And no consideration for those of us who voted for dirty water and toxic air. I mean, really.

[Citizen X - #6]

I voted for for toxic water and dirty air, splitter!

[gaoxiaen]

Pink Floyd can.

[Not a True MJG]

"You couldn't manage a ham sandwich!"

[Fist of Etiquette]

According to the Russian Defense Ministry, only 23 out of 50 U.S. missiles hit their targets.

That's what we get for letting the NYPD in charge of aiming.

[ThomasD]

I'm ok with that, so long as it doesn't mean another overwrought Springsteen groanfest.

[gaoxiaen]

Born to Run Away
.

[Konima]

Does anyone else feel like Assad may have been in on this airstrike as well? In telling Russia, it was inevitable that Russia would tell Assad. Assuming that Trump got the Russian "OK", this strikes me as being completely for show. No one seems to be reporting that the air strike even killed anyone. Now I expect Russia to come out and condemn the airstrikes in some way to make it look like Trump is going rogue on Russia.

[Memory Hole]

I think Assad is the sacrificial lamb. No, more precisely I think the poor Syrian soldiers who were left to die were the lambs. I think we attacked with the understanding with Putin that this would be the beginning of the end of Russian sanctions.

[ThomasD]

Of course the Russians warned Assad. Hard to explain why your personnel were all diving for cover otherwise.

But it seems the warning was kept short, giving people a chance to skedaddle while not being long enough to allow (most) planes or other gear to be relocated

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Syrian military, meanwhile, says that the U.S. is now a "partner" of groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS.

The president likes winners not losers.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

Lawsuit alleges Seattle Mayor Ed Murray sexually abused troubled teen in 1980s

A 46-year-old Kent man sued Seattle Mayor Ed Murray on Thursday, claiming Murray "raped and molested him" over several years, beginning in 1986 when the man was a 15-year-old high-school dropout.

The lawsuit in King County Superior Court, filed under the man's initials, "D.H.," alleges Murray sexually abused the crack-cocaine addicted teen on numerous occasions for payments of $10 to $20.

[$park? leftist poser]

If you can't believe a crack addict 31 years later, who can you believe?

[Citizen X - #6]

Hitler?

[gaoxiaen]

Keyser Soze?

[BYODB]

Hey, I own a coffee set from that guy!

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

D.H. is not the first to accuse Murray, one of the state's most powerful politicians, of sexual abuse that occurred decades ago. Murray, 61, has known of other allegations for years, and has quietly, but vigorously denied them.

While The Seattle Times chose not to publish the 2008 allegations, the similarities between those claims and the new public case gave additional weight and relevance to the previous information.

So, there's some smoke.

[Citizen X - #6]

Racist.

[Rhywun]

I thought a little grab-ass was one of the perks that makes a useless political career bearable.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

The important story: Rachel Maddow fans erupt at 'sexist' NBC after the anchor is bumped from her own show because of Syria strike and replaced by Brian Williams who waxes lyrical at 'beautiful' missiles

Viewers also took issue with some of Williams' comments on Thursday night, especially when he played videos of the missiles being launched and said: 'We see these beautiful pictures at night from the decks of these two US Navy vessels...

'I am tempted to quote the great Leonard Cohen, "I am guided by the beauty of our weapons."

'And they are beautiful pictures of fearsome armaments making what is for them a brief flight over this airfield.'

C'mon.

[Citizen X - #6]

'I am tempted to quote the great Leonard Cohen, "I am guided by the beauty of our weapons."

Yes, known warmonger and stranger to sarcasm Leonard Cohen.

[gaoxiaen]

Exterminate the brutes!

[Bra Ket]

Was he aware that the pretty missiles get destroyed in the process?

Anyway guns can be beautiful too. Though it is kind of a creepy thing to focus right when the weapon is being used to kill people.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

The American dream: Kim Kardashian's famous sex tape with Ray J has netted '$100million since its release TEN years ago'

According to TMZ, the tape, entitled Kim Kardashian Superstar, has now received 210 million views, for online, DVD and VividTV.

The site reports: 'It is viewed by someone on an average of every 1.5 seconds, with a significant increase in numbers when Kim married Kris Humphries, announced her divorce and with the release of the Paper magazine cover.'

I need to get a semi-famous penis.

[Citizen X - #6]

And then use it to pee on Armenians?

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

If that's what it takes.

[jack sprat]

In college my nickname was Pee on Armenians.
(--:

[Chipper Morning Wood]

And then Turkey will deny it happened.

[Libertarian]

You want classy? THIS is classy!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....tooed.html

[Aloysious]

re: Syria

Might as well play War Ensemble

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

The most important thing you'll read all day: Lena Dunham on the Feminine Power of Wearing Pants

What's your earliest memory of humiliation? Mine was being forced to wear sweatpants.

Me too, and mine were cuffed. 🙁

[$park? leftist poser]

If that thing were any more self absorbed, it would implode right up its own asshole. Here's hoping.

*I hope I used the proper pronoun.

[Zeb]

What is it, 1920?

[Free Society]

The Syrian military, meanwhile, says that the U.S. is now a "partner" of groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS.

And they're not wrong. The same sentiment expressed by Gaddafi wasn't wrong in the Libyan intervention either. There's damn good reason to doubt that this sarin gas attack was Assad in the first place. Like for instance, the fact that he was already winning in Syria and had nothing to gain and everything to lose by gassing some random civilians. Or the fact that ISIS, al-Qeada and the other jihadists have already used chemical weapons a dozen times in this war. Or that the previous alleged use of chemical weapons by Assad was in 2013, and after the hysteria became stale news the independent investigators found no way to prove who was responsible based on the evidence available.

ISIS and al-Qaeda had everything to gain from such an attack and Assad everything to lose. It just doesn't add up.

[Memory Hole]

Assad is either the dumbest motherfucker or we're being conned.

[Free Society]

Assad would need to be irrational, suicidal and take pleasure in the undoing of his own hard earned military progress. Or... we are being conned, yes I agree.

[ThomasD]

Other than there being no indication that ISIS and/or AQ have the capacity to mount a successful sarin attack.

Or, if they did, why they would choose to waste it there are then.

[Free Society]

ISIS Allegedly Used Chemical Weapons in Mosul Battle, Injuring Civilians

ISIS Used Chemical Arms at Least 52 Times in Syria and Iraq, Report Says

WASHINGTON ? The Islamic State has used chemical weapons, including chlorine and sulfur mustard agents, at least 52 times on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq since it swept to power in 2014, according to a new independent analysis.

No indication? Aside from the facts on the ground, ISIS has been openly stating their intentions to use chemical weapons in their propaganda. The "moderate" rebels were sold chemical weapons by Saudi Arabia and the US vis a vis Libya. We know this because the respective governments kept their receipts. Every indication.

[ThomasD]

Re-read what I wrote. Yes, there is no indication they have the capacity for what occured.

Anyone can make mustard agents, sarin production and (more importantly) delivery are a tad bit more complicated.

[Free Society]

Other than there being no indication that ISIS and/or AQ have the capacity to mount a successful sarin attack.

ISIS Used Chemical Arms at Least 52 Times in Syria and Iraq, Report Says

[ThomasD]

Do you even bother to read the links you provide? Those were reportedly chlorine or mustard agents.

NOT nerve agents. There are no credible reports of ISIS or AQ employing nerve agents.

Or maybe you simply do not understand the gulf between the two categories.

[Free Society]

There's no way Dylan Roof could have shot all those people. By all indications he only knew how to shoot a .22, there's no way he could have fired a 9mm! UNPOSSIBLE

[ThomasD]

Sorry, didn't realize you were trolling.

My bad.

[Free Society]

I did realize that you're being intentionally dense. Your bad.

[ThomasD]

I'm dense because I understand that chlorine and mustard gas are not the same thing as sarin or other nerve agents???

OK.

[Free Society]

The fact that it's a "nerve agent" speaks to it's effects, not it's delivery. You're making claims about delivery systems for sarin gas being wholly and completely different than all other gas weapons. I have yet to come across any information stating that nerve agents are delivered in some completely different and technically insurmountable way as compared to other gas weapons.

Yes, that signals to me that you're being dense. And calling you "intentionally dense" is me being charitable in asserting that you're not inherently retarded.

[Gray Ghost]

I have yet to come across any information stating that nerve agents are delivered in some completely different and technically insurmountable way as compared to other gas weapons.

The vapor pressure for even non-persistent nerve agents like GB (Sarin) is much lower (~1-2 torr for 20 Celsius) than for war gasses such as Chlorine or Phosgene. Even 1-2 torr is still 1-4 orders of magnitude greater than for persistent nerve agents like GD or VX. Accordingly, dispersing such agents isn't typically done by opening a valve or merely dropping a pressurized container, previous ways that the Syrian government and ISIS have used chlorine. Usually, an explosive bursting charge is required to aerosolize the agent, like in an artillery shell or the 122mm rockets allegedly used the last time Syrians gassed their own population. Although, in the 1995 Tokyo subway attacks, Aum Shinrikyo merely left punctured baggies of liquid Sarin in the Tokyo subway system. Further, the wiki doesn't mention it, but I've read that chemical handwarmers were used to help vaporize the liquid.

Anyway, all this is to say that nerve agent is qualitatively different to use than less complicated war gasses such as chlorine or phosgene. Which also doesn't mean that Syrian government forces absolutely were responsible for this latest tragedy.

[Free Society]

Anyway, all this is to say that nerve agent is qualitatively different to use than less complicated war gasses such as chlorine or phosgene.

I never said they were identical substances, I said it's not much of a leap to go from chlorine and phosphates to sarin. The technical challenge in using it is hardly insurmountable. Especially considering the 95 Tokyo subway attack, as you mentioned, used plastic bags with holes poked in them. And they weren't exactly ISIS, they were a podunk religious sect with scant few resources and expertise as compared to the ISIS terrorist empire.

[Gray Ghost]

FWIW, if you believe the wiki for the subway attack, Aum set up a pretty sophisticated ChE pilot plant for producing Sarin. Their weaponization of it was shit, but the compound was evidently quite pure and well made. Moreover, Sarin synthesis, while it is the sort of thing one could theoretically do in a crude environment, evidently has enough pitfalls that trying to cook it at home is likely to kill you rather than your targets. IOW, easy for a nation-state, much harder for you and I.

So, that leaves: old Syrian/Iraqi army stocks deliberately used by either Assad or the rebels; an accidental airstrike on said old army stocks; or, (hat tip Jerry Pournelle) a regular chlorine/phosgene strike, exacerbated by first responders' using nerve agent antidote where the victims hadn't been exposed to nerve agent. Moreover, the first responders seems really casually in their PPE when treating victims of an ostensible nerve agent. Not saying they all needed to be in something like a Racal suit, but c'mon, they aren't even wearing gloves? And none of them are doing the funky chicken or even suffering miosis?

[Free Society]

Well in the spirit of raising more questions there's this from 2013:

The Syrian Arab News Agency SANA reports that the Syrian Army has seized two containers with Sarin nerve gas. The seizure of the banned chemical followed the recent seizure of two cylinders with Sarin from 12 members of the Jabhat al-Nusrah front by Turkish law-enforcement officers. The evidence trail may lead to Saudi-Arabia and Malaysia. Russia and Syria continue demanding full and independent investigations.

The rebels were allegedly sold sarin gas by the Saudis and the Syrian government apparently took it from them. So this establishes that both sides have access to potentially high-quality sarin.

but c'mon, they aren't even wearing gloves? And none of them are doing the funky chicken or even suffering miosis?

The first alleged use of sarin gas by the Assad regime back in 2013 (right after Obama promised an air force to the rebels if it was used), we saw the first responders much the same way. Standing around in a war zone with basically no hazmat protections while operating at ground zero. I think they're counting on photos of dead children to distract away from the details.

[Free Society]

Also this

Did Hillary Clinton Approve Sending Sarin Gas to Syrian Rebels?

And this
U.N. distances itself from claim that Syrian rebels used nerve gas

I guess it's far from clear that *only Assad* had the capability and willingness to deploy sarin gas.

[Gray Ghost]

I think it's up in the air (pun not intended) who had the capability. All I'm saying is that Sarin isn't likely to be the sort of thing that rebels are making in a basement. Stealing government stocks, sure. Getting supplied from another government, also o.k. But I don't believe they made the gunk themselves.

FWIW, I also don't think the Syrian government, at a time when the US and others had finally come to accept that Assad was going to defeat the rebels and retain at least a rump state of Syria, (and by so doing, put the kibosh on any trans-Syrian Qatari gas pipeline to Europe) would choose to piss that goodwill away by sliming a hundred or so civilians.

Who knows, maybe Mattis et al showed Trump a video that detailed in 4K, Syrian army rockets being launched, bursting into vapor clouds over that neighborhood, and people twitching to death? It just seems a lot more likely to me that Assad's enemies have a lot more to gain by portraying that bloodthirsty fuck as someone using WMDs, than Assad had to gain by actually using them.

[Free Society]

It just seems a lot more likely to me that Assad's enemies have a lot more to gain by portraying that bloodthirsty fuck as someone using WMDs, than Assad had to gain by actually using them.

That's the heart of it, yes. We can believe Assad gassed some random civilians but then we also have to believe that Assad is a retard lacking all rationality and lacking any instinct for self-preservation.

[Gray Ghost]

You know what? Screw it. I think the squirrels ate my last, lengthy comment on nerve agents and why they're different than more primitive war gasses.

Clearly Reason doesn't think its readers' comments are worth encouraging, through fixing their oft-mentioned IT issues. So, why come here and give them clicks?

[Free Society]

Habit? I'm not sure, but I'm coming to the end of my rope here. Mainly because the vast majority of the commentariat worth chatting with has moved on to that other site. The remainder is mostly left-libertarian trolls and a few good commentarians posting from time to time. Incentives are dwindling. I certainly don't stick around for Shikha and Robby's sake.

[$park? leftist poser]

I'm not sure, but I'm coming to the end of my rope here. Mainly because the vast majority of the commentariat worth chatting with has moved on to that other site

Oh, please leave. Please, please, please go. PLEASE

[Free Society]

^this is exactly the species of scumbag troll I'm talking about

[Gray Ghost]

You know, Reasonable has a filter-by-name feature.

Even if means that many of the comments threads have more white space than content these days.

[Free Society]

Yeah I'm not much for censorship though.

[Hail Rataxes]

scumbag troll

Please. Sparky has been here longer than you, and at this point, probably has more fans. That makes you the scumbag troll.

[Free Society]

So sayeth Hail Rataxes. ha

[Azathoth!!]

Just because you maggots can make the skin move doesn't mean the horse is alive

[Gadfly]

It doesn't add up that Assad would do it of his own accord, but it is believable that he would do it at the behest of Russia. Russia has saved him, so he owes them no end of favors, and what better way for Russia to test Trump's response to serious international events than by having a proxy do a dirty deed and then seeing what happens. If this doesn't escalate after the US airstrike, I'll be inclined to believe that that's all this amounted to. Russia now has a data-point on which to base future foreign policy actions, and gassing a few civilians and losing an airport would not be a high price for Assad to remain in the good graces of Russia, his savior.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

Man Gets 'Pantsed' by Fence While Trying to Escape During Alleged Burglary

After spotting the locksmith, the suspect reportedly ran and tried to hop the school's spiked fence.

He failed.

Bystander Jesse Sensibar captured a photo of the alleged crook hanging upside down with his pants down and underwear showing after his clothing had apparently gotten stuck on the fence.

[Zeb]

That happened to me once. Except it was my boot and not pants and I was leaving a party, not burgling a school. And the fence wasn't that high.

[$park? leftist poser]

It's like this guy has never watched TV or seen a movie.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

The Trouble with Hot Guys. Or Why I Stopped Being Superficial

As someone who grew up pummeled by society's generally unattainable beauty standards (like all women everywhere and more than a few men), this was an important moment for me. Having never dated a friggin' hot guy before, I'd assumed such an evening would be INCREDIBLE. As if his beauty equated to a winning personality and would, per every romantic comedy ever, magically solve all of life's problems. In his company, I would suddenly transcend all pesky barriers to complete happiness.

Instead, I discovered that "Yes Virginia, even hot guys can be meh."

TW: Mean things are said about the greatest asteroid movie ever made.

[Rhywun]

Sadly, it seems to be blocked here but I'll just add that hot gals can be meh too - where I gather she intends "meh" to mean "narcissistic asshole".

[Hail Rataxes]

where I gather she intends "meh" to mean "narcissistic asshole".

You gather wrong. Shock.

[$park? leftist poser]

TW - writer goes by pseudonym 'ThunderPuff'

[Rhywun]

That conjures up all kinds of disturbing images.

[Stormy Dragon]

Armageddon wasn't even the best asteroid movie that year. Deep Impact was way better.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

Pathetic trolling.

[Not a True MJG]

Deep Impact is clearly the superior movie, and I'm not saying that because it has Leelee Sobieski.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

The character that the greatest actor of all time plays is named Spurgeon "Fish" Tanner.

[Not a True MJG]

Blessing that world with Spurgeon Tanner Day and numerous Spurgeon Tanner Memorials. That name is now up there with Caesar and Shakespeare and Einstein.

[lap83]

I glanced over the article assuming it was about her realization that attractive people are not necessarily good in bed, but it looks like all they did was have a conversation. I didn't expect that level of naivete. I figured most people learned that hot people don't have personalities by the time they're in 9th grade or so. On the contrary, by college you should know that personality is something that hot people often don't have at all.

[Meh.]

Well, I can only speculate, but based on the evidence presented ? her wistful retelling of their disastrous date, admitting to going out with him several more times after that, and the fact that she felt compelled to write a disparaging blog post about it almost 20 years later? I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest she didn't break things off with him, as implied.

[Free Society]

Furious Putin calls US airstrikes an 'illegal act of aggression' and suspends deal to avoid mid-air clashes with American fighter jets over Syria

Furious Vladimir Putin has called the US airstrikes on Syria an 'illegal act of aggression' and suspended a deal to avoid mid-air clashes with American fighter jets over the war-torn country.

The Russian President warned of grave damage to relations between Washington and Moscow after 60 Tomahawk missiles were fired at al-Shayrat airbase near Homs.

Syrian Army officials described the attack as an act of 'blatant aggression', saying it had made the US 'a partner' of ISIS, the ex-Nusra Front and other 'terrorist organisations'.

I'm with Putin on this one.

[Drave Robber]

There's no evidence of Putin being furious, at least I can't find any photos or videos from today. Foreign Affairs spokeslady seemed mildly annoyed.

[DanO.]

Daily Mail. The Fox News of Britain.

[chemjeff]

"This action in Syria was appropriate and just."

Fuck Paul Ryan even harder. He is supposed to be the guy to defend the interests and prerogatives of his coequal branch of government, and not just surrender them to the executive branch because a member of his tribe is in charge. HE should be the one banging the drum most loudly about Congressional declaration of war, even louder than Rand Paul is.

[Free Society]

I would hardly describe him as a member of the same tribe on any grounds other than mere technicality. A Democrat speaker of the house would be just as likely to applaud. Just like prominent Democrats are doing now.

[Tony]

The same exact person and his cohort made it clear that any Obama action in Syria would not be tolerated.

[Stormy Dragon]

Reminder of why 2016 election sucked balls:

Hillary Clinton: US should 'take out' Assad's air fields

"Assad has an air force, and that air force is the cause of most of these civilian deaths as we have seen over the years and as we saw again in the last few days," Clinton said in a speech at the "Women in the World" summit in New York City. "And I really believe that we should have and still should take out his air fields and prevent him from being able to use them to bomb innocent people and drop sarin gas on them."

No matter what happened, we were getting an unconstitutional military attack last night. Only question was who was going to push the button.

[Citizen X - #6]

Hitler?

[Not a True MJG]

I'm wearing my SMOD 2016 hoodie today for just this reason.

[creech]

I wonder how the U.S. would react to such an attack on our sovereign soil by a third party (e.g. Canada) if said third party was upset over some domestic police action? I'm pretty sure Lincoln would have been pretty pissed if Britain had found Sheridan's depredations in the Shenandoah were war crimes.

[timbo]

Lincoln never minded egregious violations of the constitution and liberty.

He was the prime example of political slight of hand. Vastly undermine the constitution and violate the most precious and righteous of American principles but then, emancipation proclamation, and everyone looks the other way.

[creech]

The point is Lincoln would have very much minded...and justly so...if the British Navy had sailed into New York Harbor and bombarded the Brooklyn Navy Yard because they thought Gen. Sherman was taking too many liberties with Georgia civilians.

[$park? leftist poser]

Occasions like what happened last night are always such spectacular ways to reveal the whackos in our midst. Hope Mikey shows up soon. John popping in would really add icing to the cake.

[Domestic Dissident]

Not really a whole lot to say besides the obvious: Trump got pretty quickly beaten down and turned by Muslim terrorist loving Washington leftist scumbags like you.

It won't be long now before he starts letting in "refugees", some of whom will no doubt thank us for helping them out so much by killing us here at home. The most tragic part is it's always innocent people and never vermin like you who end up being the ones who get killed.

[Citizen X - #6]

Careful what you wish for, $park?.

[Not a True MJG]

So Trump's a cuck. Sad!

[paranoid android]

Who's more Sad!, the cuck-in-chief or the cuck who pinned all their hopes and dreams on him like our Domestic Bootlicker?

[Memory Hole]

I just sold my stocks all cash now. Fuck this shit. I can't do it anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if the markets didn't sell off but my god every ounce of my gut is screaming that we're headed to a bad place with Trump in power.

[$park? leftist poser]

Good thinking. If you tell me where your bunker is, I'll stop by to knock when the sun can be seen again.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

You aren't already in your bunker?

[$park? leftist poser]

Nah, I'm going to brave the wasteland. I'm gonna spend the weekend stocking up on leather clothes and gasoline, just in case.

[Crusty Juggler aka "Chad"]

I'll miss you.

[Citizen X - #6]

You're not already stocked up on leather clothes?

[$park? leftist poser]

I need something beyond the chaps and vests that I have now. In the off chance it happens to be a frozen wasteland rather than a scorched wasteland. Ya know?

[Bra Ket]

The trick is to become one of the first zombies. Then you're on the winning side for practically the entire conflict.

[WakaWaka]

"Bipartisan war boners"

Greatest headline ever. Truer words have never been said. Never change, ENB

[Zeb]

You don't want to know what's going on in the congressional men's rooms.

[dantheserene]

Does it have anything to do with the old joke about "bending over pages"?

[timbo]

I'm sure it is debauchery on a level we cannot even imagine. Think about how many closet fags and drunks and molesters and perverts and womanizers and crooks and addicts and liars are all in those buildings.

We have only heard of a few indictments of these scumbags in aggregate vs. the numbers of bureaucrats in that city.

The worst part is that after they pretend to hate each other all day, you know they go out together and fight over the check.
This country is officially as corrupt as any country in history and we are finished.

Collapse is a process, not an event.

[Zeb]

This country is officially as corrupt as any country in history and we are finished.

You think the US is collapsing? I think it probably keeps limping along, at least through our lifetimes.

The US is pretty fucked up and corrupted, but so is the rest of the world.

[$park? leftist poser]

I came to a realization yesterday that we're kinda just slipping back to a feudal-like system. Most people are busy going about their lives and keeping their heads down to escape the notice of the nobility. And the nobility is so tied up with petty infighting that they only occasionally take time to squash some peasants.

[Free Society]

Once again demonstrating that you don't know what feudalism is.

[$park? leftist poser]

Once again demonstrating that you don't know what feudalism is.

Obviously I'm no world-weary old horse such as yourself, a man that has travelled the world far and wide, a man that has experienced all that life has to offer, a man that now has a unique perspective on the world that demands to be passed on to a younger generation

I'm just a lowly leftist poser, an elitist wannabe, if you will. Just here takin' up space and hopin' nobody notices.

But you, you are the wind beneath my wings. The very reason I spend countless hours on this website. Hoping, nay praying, that I will once again be blessed with the sheer awesomeness of your wisdom.

[Free Society]

You use a lot of words to say nothing at all.

[$park? leftist poser]

Nothing at all? My loquaciousness was inspired by your pure benign munificence! Your absolute shining example that us poor, benighted souls can do nothing more than aspire to ever attain. The all-consuming purity that is the spirit of your being can't help but be an inspiration to those of us destined to be nothing greater than stains on the boot heels of our betters.

[Free Society]

You don't have what it takes to be Agile Cyborg.

[Zeb]

Who does?

[$park? leftist poser]

Meh, I frankly think AC is a bit of a goof. But others seem to like him.

I would recommend that you go to dictionary.com to look up the words you don't understand. And, get this, modern web browsers have this feature called tabbed browsing so that you can keep dictionary.com open while you also keep reason.com open. So handy, right?

[Free Society]

So you want me to go read a dictionary even though you're the one who thinks 'feudalism' and 'serfdom' are interchangeable terms. Cool story.

[$park? leftist poser]

you're the one who thinks 'feudalism' and 'serfdom' are interchangeable terms

You really are no shit retarded, aren't you?

[Free Society]

Keep dodging.

[Drave Robber]

OT but funny: kremlin.ru is right now down with HTTP status code 402 ("Payment Required").

[GLEEMORE?]

Trump is the peace candidate and the Republicans are steely-eyed realists that will {guffaw} keep us out of war.

[Zeb]

There has never been a major party peace candidate. Not since WWII anyway.

[WakaWaka]

Robert Taft?

[Zeb]

Did he ever get the nomination?

There have, of course, been primary candidates who (at least in their rhetoric) been anti-war/intervention.

[Not a True MJG]

Boners, seaman, Paul Ryan... stop getting me hot and bothered on a Friday morning, Brown!

[Ken Shultz]

I'm not convinced that every single one-day retaliatory attack necessarily requires a formal declaration of war, but I am watching for Shikha Dalmia to pipe up and tell us that this strike against Syria was unconstitutional.

Those who insist that the President doing anything militarily without declaring war is unconstitutional because declaring war is an enumerated power of Congress might have a hard time getting traction with that argument . . . within weeks of arguing that when the President enforces Congress' enumerated power to set the rules of naturalization, it's like he's enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850.

[Zeb]

If the US or a US ship or base or something had been attacked, I'd say the president would be legally justified in retaliating. But I'm not sure "retaliation" is the right word in this case. He's getting us involved in a war that we aren't (in theory) part of. I don't think that the fact that someone used a forbidden weapon should really change that calculus.

Maybe a declaration of war isn't constitutionally required. I don't know. But unless someone is directly attacking us, I think the president should let congress decide if we should get involved.

[Ken Shultz]

He retaliated for their using chemical weapons to target civilians, which is a breach of propriety internationally.

Personally, I'm against using such "red-lines". I don't think it was in our best interests to do this in Syria.

Regardless, my point was about selective respect for the separation of powers generally and the enumerated powers of Congress specifically. When we denigrate one enumerated power of Congress and compare its constitutional enforcement to enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act , it's hard to turn around and claim that another enumerated power of Congress is sacrosanct because it's an enumerated power.

My wasn't about whether this was in retaliation against something they did against us or someone else. It wasn't even justifying Trump's attack.

[Zeb]

I may have missed some of the context of your comment.

[Not a True MJG]

Damn it Zeb, this isn't about Trump or Syria or the proper deployment of military force. This is about Shikha, and how much she suuuuuucks.

[Ken Shultz]

The point is about how you don't get to pick and choose your reverence for enumerated powers. If some of them are sacred and some of them aren't based on out personal qualitative preferences, then the fact that they're enumerated in the Constitution isn't really the standard.

We denigrate Congress' exclusive power to declare war when we denigrate the separation of other powers enumerated in the same place in the Constitution.

Why is that hard for you to understand?

[Not a True MJG]

Why do you think I don't understand?

[Ken Shultz]

If you think it was all about Dalmia, you didn't understand much at all.

[Not a True MJG]

If you don't want to think your post is another hissy-fit about Dalmia, don't base your entire example around her unique ridiculousness.

[Bra Ket]

I took issue with the use of "retaliation" as well. It means for the attacked to attack back, not for a 3rd party to respond to something they weren't a part of.

[Ken Shultz]

The strikes were in retaliation for the use of chemical weapons.

They just were.

Retaliation doesn't necessarily justify anything. Retaliation can be strategically, constitutionally, and ethically unjustifiable.

If you want to make some argument about the unjustifiable nature of this retaliation, go ahead, but don't expect me to alter the English language to fit what's going on your head. Even if Trump's strikes against Assad were unjustified, these missile strikes were in retaliation for Assad's use of chemical weapons.

[Zeb]

I'd say they were punishment for using chemical weapons.

We're just arguing about the definitions of words now. But I'm pretty sure "retaliate" means doing to someone what they did to you (or similar). The US didn't get nerve gassed.

[Bra Ket]

If you want to make some argument about the unjustifiable nature of this retaliation, go ahead, but don't expect me to alter the English language to fit what's going on your head.

What if I just want to make a general statement about semantics, utilizing non-specific terms like "the attacked" and "3rd party"? Would you still get all pissy about it?

[Gray Ghost]

For all of the "since Assad used chemical weapons, everyone around the world is entitled to bomb him" types, when are we going to be bombing North Korea? Since agents of their government used VX, one of the most toxic nerve agents known, within the Kuala Lumpur airport to kill Kim Jong Un's half brother.

I still can't believe, all of the poisons in the world, that the Norks picked that compound to kill someone in a crowded airport.

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, no red lines, please.

If and when it's in the best interests of the United States to do something militarily, then doing something militarily may be justifiable on that basis. If and when it is not in the best interests of the United States to retaliate against someone for using chemical weapons, then we shouldn't.

[Gray Ghost]

So, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding your position on this, Ken: how is it in the best interests of the U.S. to piss away the monetary equivalent of the annual U.S. Government's funding of the NEA, in blowing up buildings at one Syrian air base in retaliation for an alleged use of chemical weapons by the Syrian government against its own citizens?

60 TLAMs at ~2.5 million USD per, is about 150 million USD. Or what we fund the National Endowment of the Arts with annually, an amount of spending that Congress loves getting in front of a camera and bitching about.

This is the sort of shit I expected from President Hillary, not Trump.

I guess it did get the Goresuch fight/nuclear option off the front pages for awhile, as well as deflect the rumors that Trump was some sort of Russian puppet. It further indicates that Trump won't wait for a UN Resolution to show when the U.S. is really pissed off about something.

But other than that, I'm not seeing the U.S. national interest in committing acts of war against a sovereign nation.

[Ken Shultz]

I'm not saying that Trump's strike is justifiable. In fact, I'm against it.

I do not believe Trump's strike was in the United States' best interests, and, even apart from any constitutional arguments, I oppose it on that basis (as well as on a humanitarian basis).

My point was to those who both a) want to fault Trump for acting unconstitutionally in attacking a foreign government without a declaration of war and b) want to fault Trump for enforcing Congress' constitutional laws regarding immigration.

I don't think you can safely burn that enumerated power candle at both ends.

There are all sorts of parallels. Just because I oppose a war doesn't mean Congress shouldn't have the exclusive power to declare war, and just because I want an open immigration policy doesn't mean Congress shouldn't have the power to set the rules of naturalization.

There have been numerous articles and comments, here, in recent months, about how immigration is a right, how deportation is inherently wrong, etc.

My point is that we can't tell people that immigration law should be ignored--despite Congress having the enumerated power in the Constitution to set the rules of naturalization--and then turn around and complain that Trump's actions are unacceptable because declaring war is an enumerated power of Congress.

For goodness' sake, the Constitution enumerates those two powers in the same list.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Did the gas attack in Syria actually occur?

[Free Society]

It seems to have. I find it less than believable that Assad is the culprit however. It comes right immediately after trump said Assad could stay. It's almost as if someone wanted to pressure Trump into changing his mind.

[Free Society]

Sort of like the alleged Assad gas attack in 2013 came right after Obama promised to topple Assad if he was found using chemical weapons. In both cases, the attack hinged on the American's presidents words and in both cases Assad had nothing to gain and everything to lose.