Critiquing Trump's First War on Terror Raid? That's 'Emboldening the Enemy.'

'Shut up,' the president explained.

Mike Theiler/UPI/Newscom

Donald Trump campaigned partly on blasting the way previous presidents (both George W. Bush and Barack Obama) have handled the war on terror. They were disasters, he says. They were examples of America "not winning" anymore. Criticism of the management of the war on terror was a regular feature of his presidential campaign.

But he's president now so STFU with that sort of thing.

We know that many things went wrong with the first terror-focused military raid ordered under the Trump presidency in Yemen. A Navy SEAL, Chief Petty Officer William "Ryan" Owens, was killed in the raid, as were several civilians, including the American-born 8-year-old daughter of terror organizer Anwar al-Awlaki.

Whether the collateral damage of the raid designates it as a failure is the subject of an open debate right now, one that President Trump suddenly is not interested in having.

Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) declined to see the raid as a success, pointing to Owens' death and the loss of an expensive plane as problems. He has since backtracked just a little bit and acknowledged that some objectives may have been fulfilled, while not willing to declare a raid where a Navy SEAL died as a "success."

White House Spokesman Sean Spicer declared previously that anybody seeing the raid as anything less than a success owed the deceased Owens an apology. This is typical posturing—politicians attempting to deflect criticism away from their leadership and control over military action by suggesting that it is an attack on those who were injured or killed while carrying it out.

A little less normal, but is very clearly now going to be a feature of this administration, is Trump turning to Twitter to complain about it. Suddenly, now that he is president it's the criticism of the war on terror that's the problem!

Sen. McCain should not be talking about the success or failure of a mission to the media. Only emboldens the enemy! He's been losing so….

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 9, 2017

…long he doesn't know how to win anymore, just look at the mess our country is in - bogged down in conflict all over the place. Our hero..

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 9, 2017

Critiquing Trump's choices in fighting the war on terror is "emboldening the enemy." One suspects that we're going to see this get trotted out a lot, completely oblivious and uncaring that Trump's foreign policy platform during the campaign revolved around doing the very same thing he's complaining about now.

And there's so much more criticism to come. He complains about America getting "bogged down in conflict," an attitude toward foreign military interventionism during the campaign that not a few libertarians appreciated. But today, again Trump complained that America's military action in Iraq didn't result in getting control over any oil wells. It's an overly simplistic attitude. Critics point out that it would violate international law. Trump probably doesn't care about that, but it would certainly get American even further "bogged down" in the politics and management of the country.

Comments

[AlmightyJB]

Related:

http://hotair.com/archives/201.....ews-media/

[GILMORE?]

POLLS ARE NEWS WHEN WE SAY THEY'RE NEWS

[Monty Crisco]

You know Reason AIN'T gonna cover that poll when they fall square into the pants-shitting-about-Trump-msm....

[AlmightyJB]

OMG!

[DJF]

That question is unfair to the MSM. They need different choices

Which do you trust more, a Rabid Dog or the MSM?

[Squinja]

Trick question. Neither. Both are going to bite you.

[Suthenboy]

Any random used car dealer is more trusted than the media.

[Monty Crisco]

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT ISIS WANTS YOU TO SAY!!! YOU JUST PLAYED INTO THEIR HANDS!!!!

[Certified Public Asshat]

The ultimate Betsy DeVos pants-shitting article:

Betsy DeVos Is Coming for Your Children

Now Betsy DeVos?along with the other ideologues and Wall Street stooges appointed by Trump?is set to bring her free-market insanity to Washington, where she will certainly loosen regulations and try to replicate her agenda in Chicago and Newark and the rest of America's cities.

[Certified Public Asshat]

Everyone I spoke with expressed their complete horror over a billionaire member of the donor class with no experience working in education who has used her family money to intimidate lawmakers and turn Michigan's schools into her own test kitchen being set to rule our schools. But no one put it in as succinct and terrifying a way as Terrence Martin, a 41-year-old lifelong Detroiter, former DPS teacher, and current executive vice president of the Detroit Federation of Teachers.

"She's singlehandedly responsible for financing the demise of our school district. You know the fact that charter schools in our city have no accountability and no oversight, is all DeVos measure, to dismantle public education. The fact that we did not get a Detroit Education Commission in the last DPS legislation has DeVos written all over it. What it would have allowed was for some regulation of the opening and closing of schools. Essentially what has happened because there is no regulation, neighborhoods are being dismantled by school closures," he said, his voice rising.

[commodious rebrands]

LOLOL

Yes, I'm certain Detroit's incompetent management and the union-driven decline in manufacturing had nothing to do with your shitty public schools.

Bust. The. Unions.

[Libertarian]

I should be embarrassed by my ignorance, I guess, but where does the term "donor class" come from? I guess I've absorbed the meaning (plutocracy) after seeing the term a couple dozen times, but.......

[Rhywun]

I've never heard that. I think it just means "rich people"?

[Libertarian]

I guess; I also guess it's pejorative.

[Rhywun]

"Rich" is a pejorative for that type too.

[Libertarian]

Ah hah. After googling a bit, it appears that the donor class is composed of the folks wealthy enough to donate money to politicians and receive favors. I guess I skipped school the day that was explained. I couldn't understand why someone nice enough to donate money was labeled undesirable.

[Microaggressor]

So does he consider the teacher's unions to be part of the donor class? Is it somehow less moral when you donate public extorted funds than when you donate your own personal money?

[Libertarian]

Yes, spending money that you get from taxpayers is "generous"; spending your own money is greedy. These are the times we live in.

[Fatty Bolger]

It means rich people (or sometimes groups) who donate heavily to politicians or political organizations.

[Libertarian]

Thanks. Due to the threading here, I missed your answer before I started googling.

[Rhywun]

being set to rule our schools

He then delivered an impassioned plea for states' rights.

[Bill Dalasio]

So, Betsy DeVos is preparing to implement the libertarian vision of taking over the schools and leaving students alone.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

It's my limited understanding that if there's one place on the planet that needs free-market insanity and a radically different education agenda, it's Newark, New Jersey.

[Certified Public Asshat]

First comment to the article, full of derp:

Always remember: Bad schools make future Republicans! If don't bother to teach kids how to think, they won't bother to learn. This locks in your base for the next generation.

At least some readers of Deadspin have called him on his bullshit.

[Volren]

This guy projects so hard he could open his own movie theater.

[american socialist]

Yep that makes total sense cause everyone knows inner city schools are currently above suburban and rural areas!

[Lurk Diggler]

Failed inner city schools are pumping out republicans at an alarming rate.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Those kids are just too dumb to know they're republicans.

[Pro Libertate]

You know, nothing else seems to work very well, so maybe we should try some of this "free-market insanity."

[Rhywun]

Nah... look what mild approximations of that have done to markets for food, electronics, clothing, shelter, ...

[commodious rebrands]

"Free market insanity" being the catchier term for a system that doesn't blatantly favor teachers unions over students.

[Raston Bot]

dipshit links to the Standford/CREDO Michigan charter school study which showed charters doing better than their TPS counterparts but lies his ass off and writes that it "found that charter and public-school students were essentially equally proficient in math and reading."

[american socialist]

Lol and don't charter schools spend less per pupil but they are doing it for profiteering?

[See Double You]

"Essentially equally" are the weasel words there. In truth, there was an increase in reading and math proficiency, although it was slight. But not only was there an increase, the increase was achieved with less money.

[commodious rebrands]

Which I assume doesn't include the tremendous overhead in federal and state administration.

[Bill Dalasio]

It doesn't even say it was slight. From the actual study,

Based on the findings presented here, the typical student in Michigan charter schools gains more learning in a year than his TPS counterparts, amounting to about two months of additional gains in reading and math.

[Gadfly]

Assuming a nine month school year (I know most schools don't take a full three months off in the summer, but they usually have other vacations that almost make up for it), a two month gain is a 22% increase in efficiency. Not only is that not slight, it would properly be classified as significant.

[Sidd Finch v2.01]

LOL NO. In these "studies" 2 years of school = 1 standard deviation. So "about two months of additional gains in reading and math" is a little more than an IQ point.

[Square = Circle]

I've notice a growing tendency for bullshit assertions to be accompanied by lots of links that the author knows no one really clicks on but that makes what they're saying look super well-researched.

[Basketball Uber Alles, Jr.]

Around these parts, that's known as the Palin's Buttplug Special.

[Private Chipperbot]

Bravo!

[Microaggressor]

free-market insanity

Pretty good second album name.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Maybe a federal education agency isn't such a great idea, what with that whole replication business.

[jmomls]

"Deadspin"??? You mean, they cover things other than the states of various athlete's gentials? Wot?

[XenoZooValentine]

Didn't read the link, because it's fucking Deadspin, one of the Gawker sites, and they can all choke on my cock.

You know, the assholes who lost the Hulk Hogan case in part because their star witness tried to charm the jury by "joking" about making child porn. Maybe that's what they do when they're not outing gays or lying about gamers.

They'd know all about "coming for your children" wouldn't they?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

This is a thing.

Seattle Auto Repair Revolution run by / for queers, women

Repair Revolution

At Repair Revolution, 90 percent of the staff is queer, trans or female. Allison's goal is to create a comfortable work environment. But he's also adamant about making things completely transparent for customers, who know nothing about cars, so they never feel taken advantage of.

[Citizen X - #6]

If there's a niche, i can't fault someone for making some money filling it. Even if that niche used to be a penis.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I'm torn. My libertarian side actually celebrates this carefully constructed business which employs, freely associates and crafts a business aimed at a particular clientele.

But my "do unto others as they do unto you" side asks, "Shouldn't this be illegal?"

[Citizen X - #6]

Be the change you want to see in the world, Paul.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

That would involve a lot of hookers and blow.

[BakedPenguin]

I'm intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[juris imprudent]

Go on...

[Squinja]

Charlie Sheen special?

We have a vegas getaway package you might be interested in.

[Cynical Asshole]

I'm gonna open up my own car repair shop. With blackjack, and hookers!

[Zeb]

I guess they are open about their hiring preferences, which makes it pretty blatant. But I don't know if I've ever been to an independent repair shop that employed any female mechanics.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Observe, a garage that employes only the fairer sex.

[Zeb]

They do keep a very clean shop.

[XenoZooValentine]

Well, we already have car washes like that, so why not?

[Bill Dalasio]

And of course, this does raise some fairly obvious employment discrimination issues, nevermind the possibility of customer lawsuits.

[Jerryskids]

My cynical side asks if they're employing people strictly on the basis of their gender issues or if there is a test of ability to repair an automobile involved in the hiring process. What are my chances of getting hired there if - when asked about my qualifications to call myself a mechanic - I demur with an assertion that, thanks to my ambivalent gender identity, I possess "other ways of knowing" about engine repair?

[Citizen X - #6]

What if i identify as a mechanic, even if i've never touched a car in my life?

[Zeb]

I imagine they would go out of business pretty quickly if they didn't.

[Zeb]

And it's probably not unreasonable to say that a lot of the auto-repair industry is a bit of a "boys club". If they can make a go of it, good for them.

[Lee wishes he made the list...]

OK, that comment wins the thread

[creech]

Sorry, this workforce doesn't seem sufficiently diverse. Needs to be boycotted, protested, driven out of business.

[juris imprudent]

If there aren't any men how will they know if the women are underpaid?

[Fatty Bolger]

If a (former) man now identifies as a woman, does he have to take a pay cut?

[GILMORE?]

If auto mechanics weren't robbing half their customers I don't know how they'd stay in business.

My mom probably spent $100,000 over the course of her life simply telling mechanics, "its making a funny noise". and that might be underestimating it.

[Square = Circle]

In defense of mechanics (raised by one):

1) No one does exposes on customers who rip off mechanics, but it happens all the time.

2) Nothing against your mom, but the "my car is making a funny noise" people are the worst, and are the ones who are the most likely to rip you off on a "now it's making another noise is wasn't making before you got your filthy hands on it!" They are also the ones who fret about their cars constantly without understanding them, and who take their cars in more as a ritual practice than anything else. Mechanics feel almost obligated to milk those people. My dad didn't, but then he went out of business (so your first sentence is probably accurate).

[Square = Circle]

Just to clarify a detail not everyone may know:

The mechanic (at least in CA) is heavily regulated on how much they can charge you depending on what specifically they did. They don't get paid for the 8 hours they spend trying to figure out what exactly you mean by "a funny noise that's sort of a wuh-wuh-purr like from the glove box."

[GILMORE?]

The mechanic (at least in CA) is heavily regulated on how much they can charge you depending on what specifically they did

which is why they over-diagnose to compensate.

[See Double You]

which is why they over-diagnose to compensate.

Sounds like doctors.*

*Son of a doctor.

[The Last American Hero]

The wuh wuh purr from the glove box is usually from somebody leaving their vibrator on and tossing it in the glove box. There. Just saved you $85.

[XenoZooValentine]

We never imply ownership in the event of a dildo.

[GILMORE?]

Nothing against your mom, but

when your death comes, it will be slow and agonizing, and my smiling face will be the last thing you see.

just kidding: she's as dumb as a bag of rocks

Mechanics feel almost obligated to milk those people.

Which was exactly my point. I was saying that the Ignorant Consumer is absolutely necessary to the prosperity and survival of mechanics. They are the bountiful oasis from which revenue endlessly flows. I also understand how they are a simultaneous bane as well, because their ignorance is a double-edged sword, making them impossible to fully satisfy.

I once suggested to my mom that she actually marry our family mechanic (*appropriately named "Rocco"), because their relationship was pretty much already like a married-couple. constantly needing + hating one another. I also thought it would be great to have a step-dad named Rocco.

Economists have done endless studies on this whole "information asymmetry" thing (*and i've read them!) and how its actually one of the most powerful forces in the service-industry-driven modern world.

[Square = Circle]

Which was exactly my point. I was saying that the Ignorant Consumer is absolutely necessary to the prosperity and survival of mechanics. They are the bountiful oasis from which revenue endlessly flows. I also understand how they are a simultaneous bane as well, because their ignorance is a double-edged sword, making them impossible to fully satisfy.

Ah - then you understand perfectly. Carry on.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I also understand how they are a simultaneous bane as well, because their ignorance is a double-edged sword, making them impossible to fully satisfy.

They exist in every profession.

In mine, they usually start the conversation with "It feels slow".

[Citizen X - #6]

Today we learn that Paul is a gigolo, which might be the least surprising personal reveal any commenter has yet made.

[Citizen X - #6]

A lazy gigolo.

[Basketball Uber Alles, Jr.]

Paaaaaaaaaaaul
Ain't got nobooooody
Nobody
Cares for he
Nobody
Nobody cares for he

Heeeeeeeee's
So sad and looooooonely
Sad and lonely
Sad and lonely
Won't some sweet mama
Come and take a chance with he?
Cause Paul ain't so bad

[Basketball Uber Alles, Jr.]

That was all supposed to be linked, not just the first stanza. GODDAMN TRUMP.

[thom]

"While we were doing your oil change we did a complimentary safety inspection and found $4,000 worth of work that needs to be done RIGHT NOW."

[Adam330]

Any qualified mechanics in the Seattle area that want to get rich should go apply for a job at this place.

[See Double You]

At Repair Revolution, 90 percent of the staff is queer, trans or female.

This suggests discriminatory hiring practices. Has the EEOC investigated?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Freedom of association is a racist dogwhistle.

[See Double You]

But only if straight, cisgendered white men do it.

[Lurk Diggler]

The bullshit they've been selling is that sexual preference, gender, and race classes protect all classes within those categories. It's rather clear the laws are invented by progressives to punish people they don't like.

[jmomls]

*At Repair Revolution, 90 percent of the staff is queer, trans or female.*

So that's what the Seattle Storm do during the offseason!

[Zeb]

I love the picture. Exactly how I expected it.

[Citizen X - #6]

It definitely looks about 8 seconds away from a rugby game breaking out.

[Rhywun]

Sometimes I wonder what women at large must think about being constantly shoved into the same category as queers and transes.

[JaimeRoberto]

Are they related to the Women and Women First Bookstore?

[dajjal]

OH MY GOD REASON STOP BASHING TRUMP PRIVATE RYAN DIED FOR YOU LIB PROGTARD BUTTSEX LOVERS UR WELCOME

[MarconiDarwin]

Just like Ambassador Stevens

[Citizen X - #6]

Great alt-text as usual, Shackalakky.

[Hugh Akston]

He's just trolling

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

But they be hatin'

[commodious rebrands]

Tryin' to catch him writing dirty.

[Ska]

Line of the day.

Pretty fucking slow day, but still, solid.

[american socialist]

Trump is a jackass and should stfu.

but reason seriously you are using McCain who loves war and Yoo as a critque of the president? Come on how is that supposed to be taken seriously.

Argue from a libertarian perspective why this raid is bad. Don't use a person who loves war

Good god

[Konima]

Well, you could say that, if someone who is so pro-war is criticizing pro-war activities, it's indicative of something especially bad going on. You would have a point if they were trying to selling libertarians on a pro-war stance by using McCain.

[Volren]

Well that or people focus too much on the hypocrisy of your dishonest asshole to pay attention to his criticism of the other dishonest asshole.

John McCain's sudden concern for the lives of American soldiers could almost use an article of its own pointing out how he never saw an intervention he didn't agree with.

[Square = Circle]

It's not about where everyone is on the "pro-war" continuum and "OMG Trump's gone too far for even Yoo and McCain!"

It's about who gets to play with the toy soldiers in the War Room. It's about the wrong Top Man, not the wrong principles.

[Fatty Bolger]

Yep. McCain's just upset that the guy doing that "cool" stuff is an icky non-politician. How dare he?

[Konima]

This is akin to progressives yelling "racist!" whenever they encounter someone who disagrees with them. I'm denying that what you said plays a role in various politicians opposing Trump, but it's a gross oversimplification to reduce all criticism of Trump from inside the establishment to that.

[Konima]

I'm not denying*

[Hihndication]

Concern troll ^^^^

[Square = Circle]

This is akin to progressives yelling "racist!" whenever they encounter someone who disagrees with them

How so?

it's a gross oversimplification to reduce all criticism of Trump from inside the establishment to that

Yes, it would be, if anyone were saying that.

You said "if someone who is so pro-war is criticizing pro-war activities, it's indicative of something especially bad going on"

And I responded that in the case of John McCain it may simply be a case of someone who is generally "pro-war" criticizing someone who seems actually less "pro-war" simply because the latter person is not the person the former person wanted to be in charge of said war-like activity.

Which would be different from "something especially bad going on."

[Square = Circle]

^ This.

One of the things that's most dismayed me about this whole situation is that Trump is now seen as so evil that many of my lefty friends are now singing the praises of McCain, Graham, Davids Frum & Brooks, and all the other warmonger imperialists that used to be anathema to them.

I think people who are fuzzy on their principles and who are more drawn to people are very confused at the moment and don't know whom they should be supporting.

[Ron]

it is ironic and hypocrytical that now they are worried again about collateral deaths when Obama was droning entire generations of families at weddings and other places. the other complaint about the cost of the plane is also false considering the cost of drones

[Calidissident]

I really don't understand your comment. Reason mentioned McCain because the story is about Trump's response to McCain criticizing him. The story isn't even primarily about the raid and whether or not it was good or bad, it's about Trump's reaction to criticism. There's no praise of McCain or endorsement of his position on wars. There's no reason to freak out every time Reason mentions someone you dislike without commenting on how much they suck.

[MarconiDarwin]

Yes, at least say Half-Benghazi given two Americans lost their lives in this successful mission.

Doesn't anyone want to know what really happened in that raid? When will someone conduct four investigations?

[Colonel Slanders]

Pretty good. You guys are batting 1.000! 10 of the last 10 Hit 'n' Run posts are Trump. Its All Orangeman, All the time.

[Chipwooder]

Fucking Syracuse

[John Titor]

Yep, "you're either with us or against us" is probably going to make a comeback.

The only tactical or strategic blunder I've seen actually discussed is the fact that the raid wasn't performed on a moonless night, which is fair. Other than that I keep seeing articles stating that there was a series of 'misjudgments' or 'mistakes' that they provide no insight on. There's obviously the argument to be made as to what the hell is the military doing in Yemen in the first place, but the criticisms of the actual events on the ground has been lacking.

And the virtue signalling of highlighting the civilian casualties after years of drone campaigns specifically targeting civilian infrastructure and events is a bit rich.

[BakedPenguin]

The raid was hacked. By the Russians.

[Square = Circle]

There's obviously the argument to be made as to what the hell is the military doing in Yemen in the first place

And this is the main thing, really, that the rest of the "argument" is distracting from.

[ant1sthenes]

There's obviously the argument to be made as to what the hell is the military doing in Yemen in the first place.

Going after Al Qaeda, in this instance.

[BakedPenguin]

How dare he not call McCain a hero. All the troops are heroes.

[Chipwooder]

Well, I'll grant this much to John McCain - if anyone is an expert on losing expensive military aircraft, it's him.

[Citizen X - #6]

Rekt!

[Cynical Asshole]

I read that comment just as I started to take drink, and almost sprayed soda all over my monitor and keyboard. Nicely done!

[Mike Schmidt]

Too soon!

[juris imprudent]

It's an overly simplistic attitude

Trump makes Reagan look like Einstein.

[John]

Reagan was very smart and had more common sense than the last three President's put together. A lot of people make Reagan look like Einstein.

[Konima]

Reagan was very smart just like the average actor is very smart. He wasn't.

[The Last American Hero]

Relative to the other 3 guys, he was.

[Fatty Bolger]

I bet his social intelligence was off the charts.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Reagan actually was pretty bright-- Milton Friedman said he had a keen understanding of economics.

The "amiable dunce" moniker was something carefully crafted by Democrats of the time.

One doesn't have to agree with a President's policies to recognize if they're bright or not.

[Konima]

I love Milton Friedman, but Friedman had reason to be complimentary of Reagan. Most smart guys, like Friedman, and going to be amiable towards people who entertain their ideas.

[Jerryskids]

"Support Our Troops" = don't ask uncomfortable questions about what they're dying for, just acknowledge their sacrifice. Which is why I proudly fly that Waffen-SS flag - you can say what you want about their goals but don't dare question their loyalty, their patriotism, their bravery, their sacrifice. Those men were heroes, goddammit!

[Heroic Mulatto]

It's das Erbe, not der Hass!

[Chipwooder]

I thought it was Du Hast?

[John]

http://www.mindingthecampus.or.....-berkeley/

After she was pepper sprayed (the video shows another woman in a Trump cap being pepper-sprayed in the face from a distance of about two feet, as she was talking to a TV reporter) Katrina and another woman appealed to the police to let them into the building to wash the spray from their eyes, but the police wouldn't open the door and wouldn't come out.

The Berkeley police have a more benign explanation for their behavior. They said some police were on the scene, firing paintballs at violent people to mark them for future arrest. Staying in the closed building, where no violence was going on is harder to explain, but a police spokeswoman said their appearance before the crowd would have escalated things, and that to start arresting people, would have required "up to three" police officers for each arrest. No explanation for why police didn't bring a paddy wagon?if Katrina and her husband were wearing protective vests, violence could not have come as a total surprise. Berkeley Chancellor Nichols Dirks should be asked why campus cops or outside security forces weren't there as well.

[Zeb]

Has anyone been arrested over that shit?

[Raston Bot]

showed up wearing kevlar. left her husband because she thought he was dead. who hit him with a pipe?

that story needs to be fleshed out.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

I believe whatever confirms my bias.

[John]

You right Crusty Nothing happened. You caught me.

[Cynical Asshole]

who hit him with a pipe?

A coupla hard pipe hittin' niggas?

[Citizen X - #6]

+1 gimp

[Chipwooder]

+1 pair of pliers and a blowtorch

[juris imprudent]

Did they look medieval?

[See Double You]

I can't say whether those details are true, but I did see the video of the girl in question, and it corroborates the description given above as to how she was merely speaking to a reporter while wearing the MAGA hat when someone assaulted her with pepper spray. That alone is at least misdemeanor assault, or perhaps even felony assault with a weapon.

[See Double You]

Hmm, under the California Penal Code, it could be this:

? 244. Assaults with caustic chemicals

Any person who willfully and maliciously places or throws, or causes to be placed or thrown, upon the person of another, any vitriol, corrosive acid, flammable substance, or caustic chemical of any nature, with the intent to injure the flesh or disfigure the body of that person, is punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three or four years.

Or this:

? 244.5. Assault with stun gun or less lethal weapon

...

(b) Every person who commits an assault upon the person of another with a stun gun or less lethal weapon, as defined in Section 16780, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a term not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for 16 months, two, or three years.

[Basketball Uber Alles, Jr.]

BASH THE FASH! BASH THE FASH! IT'S SELF-DEFENSE!!

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

including the American-born 8-year-old daughter of terror organizer Anwar al-Awlaki

I seem to recall something about going after their families.

[John]

You called it Sparky. He signed the death warrant. The whole raid was about killing the 8 year old kid. It is a good thing smart people like you understand that.

[Citizen X - #6]

Saying "the 8-year-old was not a dealbreaker" is not the same thing as saying "the 8-year-old was the target," John.

[Konima]

The fact is, if they ended up killing an 8-year-old kid, the intel better have been fucking incredible, life-saving shit. Considering that they only mention the intel that they obtained in passing, it's safe to assume it wasn't.

[jmomls]

Boo hoo hoo. A future terrorist incubator was vaporized. Pass me the tissues.

[Citizen X - #6]

Damn, that comment could use some work!

[Konima]

I think "basket of deplorables" is a pretty apt description in this case.

[Michael Price]

Actually they probably have no idea how good the intel is by now, and actually telling people how good it is would be a MASSIVE breach of security. Assessing intelligence is a long process, it's not like in "24".

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

You're awesome, John. Is there nothing you won't do to defend Trump against a bit of humor?

[widget]

Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) declined to see the raid as a success, pointing to Owens' death and the loss of an expensive plane as problems.

I do believe Senator McCain knows something about losing expensive airplanes. It's a cheap shot but he set that up.

[Chipwooder]

Welcome to 12:45!

[Bacon-Magic et tu Reason?]

Good article, Scott. From what I've seen written on this the raid was planned before this administration got involved but it clearly falls on Trump for the go ahead to do it. I've also heard(I don't have the link) that the targets of the raid were tipped off and were prepared for it. Does anyone know anymore on this? If they were tipped off, that would be politics getting in the way of a military operation.

[commodious rebrands]

Hey, it's only fair that if Obama can take credit for killing bin Laden, he can blame Trump for getting a SEAL killed.

[Bacon-Magic et tu Reason?]

True.

[GILMORE?]

the targets of the raid were tipped off and were prepared for it. Does anyone know anymore on this? If they were tipped off, that would be politics getting in the way of a military operation.

the NYT did a very-early (like, the next day or 2) report on the raid which had a surprising amount of detail. unfortunately can't find it at the mo (they've since published a dozen shorter stories which come up when i google), but they said that low-flying drones tipped off the target that something was imminent.

they also said (again - a strangely exact detail) that the troops on the ground knew that they were compromised before the raid began. no reason was given why they didn't abort (*it was a hostage rescue, so i guess they assumed there was no 'second chance' or something)

this might have been it

[Bacon-Magic et tu Reason?]

Didn't 3 Muslim contractors get fired over this also?

[GILMORE?]

that story was just coincidentally timed; congressional staffers who worked in IT were accused of (i think) misusing the networks they had access to, but i think there's greater suspicion they likely leaked DWS emails (& other DNC-related stuff) than anything related to military intelligence (iow, "russian hacking" actually just 'internal leak')

here's a story =

"House Intelligence, Foreign Affairs Committee Compromised by Rogue IT"

Three brothers who managed office information technology for members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and other lawmakers were abruptly relieved of their duties on suspicion that they accessed congressional computers without permission.

Three members of the intelligence panel and five members of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs were among the dozens of members who employed the suspects on a shared basis. The two committees deal with many of the nation's most sensitive issues and documents, including those related to the war on terrorism.

Also among those whose computer systems may have been compromised is Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the Florida Democrat who was previously the target of a disastrous email hack when she served as chairman of the Democratic National Committee during the 2016 campaign.

[Bacon-Magic et tu Reason?]

Thanks. I rely on the commentariat for fact checks because I'm lazy.

[Fatty Bolger]

I thought they were after intelligence, not a hostage.

[GILMORE?]

I think that's the way they spun it after it all went to shit, saying that the "goals were achieved"

I don't doubt that there were multiple overlapping goals = but if they goal was just to kill-baddies and sift through their junk, we'd drone them and send some people to pick through the rubble, not send in a small team at night.

there were 2 hostages (1 american), both killed in the raid. my assumption is that when there's hostages, they're always the #1 priority, otherwise don't do it, because they're very likely to be killed.

[Fatty Bolger]

Check the date, that was a different raid.

[GILMORE?]

oh, whoops.

maybe the earlier story (linked above) referenced the first raid in context and i mixed that up. I was under the impression that there were multiple objectives other than simply to shoot up the baddies.

i guess you're right, it was just "intelligence" -which this other story suggests was very specific

a U.S. official tells The Daily Beast that planning for this raid started under the Obama administration, including the use of troops on the ground to gather sensitive intelligence known to be at the scene ... No detainees were taken from the scene, the official said. "That wasn't the goal. The overall goal was all along site exploitation," meaning the gathering of computers, phones, documents and whatever else is found at a scene to mine them for intelligence to drive future raids.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I find that unlikely. Rescuing hostages isn't what SEAL 6 does for a living. (unless something has drastically changed in the last several years)

[GILMORE?]

i think i mixed up the 2 different raids (2014 with the recent one)

Rescuing hostages isn't what SEAL 6 does for a living. (unless something has drastically changed in the last several years)

well, i wasn't suggesting it was necessary one way or the other

but i can recall at least multiple hostage-rescues over the past few years that SEALs were given credit for

the above 2014 Yemen attempt where hostages were killed

an attempt last september in Afghanistan

a 2012 rescue in Somalia,

and 1 in Pakistan, where the hostage was killed by an errant grenade

[GILMORE?]

*taking your point into account

I would also not be surprised if either 'the media misidentifies units', or if the military feeds them bullshit about who actually does what.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I stand corrected. I had bad info.

[Jerryskids]

Meh. Trump can just take full responsibility for the operation the same way Janet Reno took full responsibility for Waco. Yeah, ultimately he's the CinC and the buck stops here, but it's not like Trump was actually out there night-scoping the terrain and counting noses. He relied on the best judgment of the guys on the ground because, despite his fat-headed loud-mouthed boasting to the contrary, he does not in fact know more about ISIS than the generals. And it's not really his job to attend to tactics, his job is setting an over-arching strategy involving a lot of political factors outside the scope of the battlefield. Generals are like scientists - they can tell you the best way to kill the shit out of a lot of people but they can't actually answer the question of whether or not killing the shit out of a lot of people is a good idea.

And one guy dead is a major disaster of some sort? The ghost of Ulysses S. Grant is laughing his ass off somewhere. The US government sets an unreasonably high value on the life of one of their own - they'll spend millions of dollars in the name of safety even when the cost of safety becomes detrimental to the success of the mission. This applies to the FDA and OSHA and NASA just as well as it does the Pentagon.

[The Last American Hero]

You get too many bodies and the public starts to want answers about what we're doing over there, how long we've been at war there, and why we didn't declare war there. And now that Team Red is in the White House, the press is going to go back to reporting on every casualty.

[Michael Price]

"And one guy dead is a major disaster of some sort? The ghost of Ulysses S. Grant is laughing his ass off somewhere. "
"I felt a great disturbance in the blogosphere, as if millions of palms suddenly slapped faces in exasperation, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

[Ron]

well the planes they used in the raid were a pretty big tip off since they can be heard for miles around. that was the failure very much comparable to Carter's failure to rescue the Iranian hostages.
that said it is not Trump or Carters job to know what is a good tactic. it is for the generals who come up with the plans and advise the president of its value. If Trump were smart he would have fired that general but its to late now that his comments about its succesfullness are out

[Fist of Etiquette]

...completely oblivious and uncaring that Trump's foreign policy platform during the campaign revolved around doing the very same thing he's complaining about now.

THIS JUST IN: PRESIDENT'S WORDS AND ACTIONS DIFFER FROM CAMPAIGN PROMISES

And so forth.

[widget]

The thing is Trump is keeping his campaign promises on domestic issues, for better or worse. The must be something in the Whitehouse water supply that stops all Presidents from keeping foreign policy promises.

[Jerryskids]

The problem with foreign policy is that you're dealing with foreigners and foreigners don't always have the best interests of the United States uppermost in their hearts and minds. Frequently, they'll even do stuff contrary to the interests of the US - like some of them insist on speaking some dumb language other than American just because they know it irritates us when foreigners pretend not to understand plain English.

[Fatty Bolger]

If they don't understand you, then you're just not talking loud enough. Everybody knows that.

[commodious rebrands]

No longer content with pissing off jihadists, Salman Rushdie looks to rile up social justice whiners.

Speaking to French magazine L'Express, Rushdie said that people learned the wrong lessons from the threats he faced in the '80s and '90s.

"Instead of realizing that we need to oppose these attacks on freedom of expression, we thought that we need to placate them with compromise and renunciation."

"I've since had the feeling that, if the attacks against The Satanic Verses had taken place today, these people would not have defended me, and would have used the same arguments against me, accusing me of insulting an ethnic and cultural minority," said Rushdie. "We are living in the darkest time I have ever known."

In Rushdie's new book, the main villain is described as a "ruthlessly ambitious, narcissistic, media-savvy villain sporting makeup and colored hair." Make what you will of that.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The Satanic Verses had taken place today, these people would not have defended me, and would have used the same arguments against me, accusing me of insulting an ethnic and cultural minority," said Rushdie. "We are living in the darkest time I have ever known."

That's without question. It's called "punching down".

[Zeb]

Isn't Rushdie a member of that same ethnic and cultural minority?

[See Double You]

If it supports a right-of-center narrative, it is punching down, Zeb.

[Square = Circle]

He's sort of a Muslim Uncle Tom.

[The Last American Hero]

They need a name for that. Like and Uncle Ahmed.

[Zeb]

Uncle Salman.

[Bacon-Magic et tu Reason?]

He doesn't pull punches. (((Balls))) of iron.

[Zeb]

Jew balls?

[Citizen X - #6]

+2 guys falling out of an airplane

[Lee wishes he made the list...]

Rushdie kicks ass (he also gets lots of it)

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

"ruthlessly ambitious, narcissistic, media-savvy villain sporting makeup and colored hair."

Hillary?

This could accurately describe nearly every politician or actor currently working.

[commodious rebrands]

Since he mentioned Gamergate (ugh) as a source of inspiration, I imagine he's referring to Zoey Quinn of Anita Sarkeesian.

[XenoZooValentine]

B-b-but you guys, gamers telling you that "you're a liar" and "you suck" over your shitty feminist agitprop is totally domestic terrorism, and we need to go beg the UN to censor the internet to protect us womenfolk!

Horse mint! Ray schism! Muh soggy knees! HALP!

*sound of a herd of white knights saddling up their little ponies*

[american socialist]

Didn't mccain crash five planes?

[Bacon-Magic et tu Reason?]

+5 successes

[Mike Schmidt]

Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) declined to see the raid as a success, pointing to Owens' death and the loss of an expensive plane as problems.

Well then, I guess the D-Day invasion was a massive failure!

[Zeb]

Whether or not it was a success seems irrelevant to whether it was a good idea or moral thing to do.

[widget]

Did you play baseball for the Phillies in the late 70's?

[Mike Schmidt]

I made it to third base with a cute little filly in the late 70's

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Been a long dry spell, huh?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

How would any one of us actually have any idea whether it was a success or failure?

First, we don't even know what the objectives were. Second, any politician with an agenda (meaning all of them) will lie through their teeth to forward said agenda. Third, the media a) don't care about telling the truth, b) have agendas of their own and c) are too fucking stupid to even know the right questions to ask even if they did care.

Us attempting to form a legitimate opinion based upon the information we are fed is an utter waste of time and energy. The only people who know what happened were those involved and debriefed and they certainly aren't going to tell us.

We are mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed shit.

[jmomls]

*How would any one of us actually have any idea whether it was a success or failure?*

Just ask Harry Reid.
Or Dick Durbin.
Or John Kerry.

[ant1sthenes]

Wait, McCain criticized the loss of the plane? Is he setting himself up for Twitter martyrdom?

[Hank Phillips]

The exact technical term is "twynching."

[Roger the Shrubber]

White House Spokesman Sean Spicer declared previously that anybody seeing the raid as anything less than a success owed the deceased Owens an apology.

I wonder what Owens' mother thinks of having Sean Spencer tell her she should apologize to her dead son.
Christ, what an asshole.

[Bacon-Magic et tu Reason?]

Sean Spencer? He didn't even get punched in the press room...

[See Double You]

Is Sean Spencer Richard Spencer's and Sean Spicer's lovechild?

[Jerry on the sea]

And so you never want to call something a success, 100 percent, when someone is hurt or killed, and that was the case here, but I think that when you recognize that an individual like this loved this country so much and deployed over and over again because he knew that the mission that he was conducting was so important to our protection, our freedom, our safety. And I know that when the President spoke to Karen, his wife, and talked about the three children that he left behind, she continued to be impressed with -- to impress upon the President, rather, that while it was an unbelievably sad and emotional time for her and her family, that he loved doing this.

Is this the same Sean Spicer?

[Lee wishes he made the list...]

That's SOP for deflecting criticism. Hannity is the master of it.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

OT: Have you ever been like, "What's that smell,?" and then you realize that the smell is you?

[Fatty Bolger]

I knew it was you all along.

[Lee wishes he made the list...]

Sure. After every bowl of Cracklin Oat Bran.

[AlmightyJB]

All that means is that I haven't left the couch for two days which is what I call a good weekend.

[widget]

Did you ever not wash your hands for 3 days after fiddling with a pussy so you could smell it again?

This might be why there are so few female libertarians.

[Zeb]

No. Not for 3 days.

[Citizen X - #6]

Just grow some facial hair.

[Zeb]

Occasionally, after eating a lot of onions.

[Lurk Diggler]

Okay. Anyway I'm interested to see what direction Trump and Matthis go in the next 6 months to a year. The fact that two weeks into the presidency they haven't changed the global strategy from the predecessor isn't all that interesting in my opinion.

[AlmightyJB]

You must not have gotten the memo.

[Juice]

So Trump's a hero because he approved a raid that failed? I like people that didn't approve raids that failed.

[MarconiDarwin]

What, no calls for a Benghazi-style investigation (At least one)? Don't reason.com libertarians care about what really happened in Yemen that cost two Americans their lives?

Note how Republican reason.com really is. When mentioning Drumpf's crass attack on the judiciary, they'll bring up Obama's disdain for the CU decision at the SOTU. Forget the tone or anything else like the pattern.

But surely some mention of Benghazi would have been kosher.

So much winning here!

[XenoZooValentine]

If we were talking about a predictable attack on an embassy coming as a complete surprise, refusing to send help, getting an ambassador killed and an embassy destroyed, blaming it on a YouTube video that it's unlikely any of the heavily armed "protestors" even saw, having somebody arrested over said video on old charges to pump the Narrative and look busy, stonewalling all the investigations, and then having media allies bury the whole thing as "fake news" to protect your counterterrorism record in an election year, then you might almost sorta kinda have a point. You don't.

[Hank Phillips]

Help me out here. Politicians declared war on some drugs, right? The drugs have not sued for peace nor signed terms of surrender, so that one is still on with some drugs the declared enemy. The drugs are not a self-declared enemy because they are dumb (which is why we call it dope). So along comes Sullum criticizing the prosecution of this war. Surely that emboldens the enemy, right? So... where do I find some of that new, bolder enemy to interrogate for intelligence purposes?

[SF Pete]

that was Obama's raid,..it was postponed for the right moon phase,.. what idiots here...