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Protests

What I Saw at the 2017 #MarchForLife

Tens of thousands marched through Washington, D.C., today. As usual, media outlets paid the protest minimal attention.

Stephanie Slade | 1.27.2017 8:20 PM

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(Stephanie Slade)

Unlike with last weekend's festivities, there do not appear to be any aerial photographs of the 2017 March for Life online. Nor are any mainstream media outlets reporting crowd number estimates, best I can tell.

So it's very hard to say how many anti-abortion demonstrators came out in the nation's capital today. I can say that from my perch atop a building overlooking Constitution Avenue, it looked like a hell of a lot. It took more than two hours for the crowd to pass me on foot as they traveled from the Washington Monument across town to the Supreme Court steps. The guy next to me on the roof shot a time-lapse video of the whole thing, if you'd like to see the mass of people for yourself:

Wow! Check out this awesome time lapse of the entire #MarchforLife! pic.twitter.com/Evrq3IBGCd

— Students for Life (@Students4LifeHQ) January 27, 2017

But what stood out more than the size were the demographic characteristics of the crowd: It was overwhelmingly young people. Sure, there were Baby Boomers, and nuns, and priests, and parents with very small children. But for every one person outside the high school/college student demographic, there seemed to be five or ten inside of it. They came to Washington by the busload to speak, listen, march, and pray.

Over 58 million abortions have been performed in the U.S. since Roe v. Wade, according to National Right to Life. The 44th anniversary of the decision, which legalized abortion nationwide, was last Sunday.

Evidence suggests libertarians are more likely to be pro-choice than pro-life. But as I've written, there's nothing logically inconsistent about thinking people of all ages and stages should be protected from aggression.

Below is a taste of what I saw at the march.

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Stephanie Slade is a senior editor at Reason.

ProtestsRoman CatholicYoung PeopleMillennialsAbortion
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  1. Crusty Juggler - #2   8 years ago

    I think it's great this march received some coverage from Reason, and while there are many commenters who are pro-life, I please ask that Reason does it's best in the future to not accede to Eddie's desires.

    Thank you.

    1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

      Come on, I didn't think they'd *really* cover it! I would have held off on the snark.

      1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

        I'm grateful they did.

        1. Crusty Juggler - #2   8 years ago

          It's a slippery slope to abortion, Kim Davis, and jokes that aren't jokes.

          1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

            I seem to recall a lot of Kim Davis coverage in Reason without my prompting.

            1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

              The centrefold and calendar shoot were your fault, though.

              1. Swiss Servator   8 years ago

                *turns green*

              2. juris imprudent   8 years ago

                I have not consumed nearly enough alcohol for that comment to not reach my conscious brain you miserable sonuvabitch.

    2. Holger da Dane   8 years ago

      It's not "pro-life" anymore, it's "anti-abortion". Get with the progrom.

      1. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

        Actually, it's anti-rights. Wherever reasonable thought got a stride ahead of klavern superstition, a female human being is an individual and therefore has individual rights even if pregnant. The National Socialist idea is a Sophie's Choice between being a free individual or a coerced milch cow (the exact term used when Darr? was herding frauleins into Hitlerjugend camps). The State, chooses, and Sophie obeys.

  2. IceTrey   8 years ago

    A fetus is not a person.

    1. qjkxbmwvz   8 years ago

      That's why it's bestiality, not rape, as I told the judge.

      1. IceTrey   8 years ago

        You raped a fetus?

        1. R C Dean   8 years ago

          No, he bestialitied a fetus. Try to keep up.

          1. IceTrey   8 years ago

            My mistake.

      2. BestUsedCarSales   8 years ago

        The unusually gentle quality of the coitus was also a major factor in the distinction.

    2. C. S. P. Schofield   8 years ago

      Why? I mean, I agree with you, but I don't think I can prove it.

      1. IceTrey   8 years ago

        Roe v Wade

        "...the word 'person,' as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn."

        1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

          *headsmack*

          I think it is a mistake to use the rationale of the SC to define concepts that are defined very differently in the minds of the general public. A huge mistake.

          1. Swiss Servator   8 years ago

            "Hey a government body of decision makers said so!"

            /not libertarian

            1. IceTrey   8 years ago

              Whether something is libertarian and whether we live under a government are two different things.

              1. Bra Ket   8 years ago

                objective truth and the law are often two different things also.

                1. IceTrey   8 years ago

                  Who said I was discussing objective truth?

                  1. Bra Ket   8 years ago

                    yes it was wrong for anyone to presume you were concerned with stating the truth with your words.

                    1. Fist of Etiquette   8 years ago

                      Well, this subthread certainly went nowhere fast.

                    2. IceTrey   8 years ago

                      You give two options yourself. Guess which one is correct.

          2. IceTrey   8 years ago

            The public is often mistaken as to the law.

            1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

              And?

              The law is an ass.

          3. GILMORE?   8 years ago

            Suthen, this is the same guy who tried to argue that "silence" was evidence of something.

            1. Austrian Anarchy   8 years ago

              Silence is violence. I heard that somewhere.

          4. DarrenM   8 years ago

            Government (SCOTUS, etc.) definitions arise from the general culture, mores, traditions, etc., not vice versa as much as some would prefer that.

            1. Austrian Anarchy   8 years ago

              Government definitions come straight out of a bureaucrat's ass.

          5. Rational Exuberance   8 years ago

            I don't see the "general public" defining personhood any different, or the Catholic church for that matter.

            I mean, you can make a reasonable argument that a fetus is "human life", but what personality does a fetus have?

        2. Bubba Jones   8 years ago

          Tautology

          1. JR Robble Dobbs   8 years ago

            I tried researching that term, and before I new it I came right back to the beginning.

        3. Johnniest Doe   8 years ago

          Appeal to authority...nice.

          I think abortion supporters are doing their side a terrible disservice to their position by using their increasingly noxious talking points to try and defeat the arguments of those who oppose abortion. Just last week, I read some fool explaining how the fetus is a parasite, which is a fairly new approach that's destined to drive people away. Then there's the pregnancy is servitude ditty. And you, declaring with no proof beyond a SCOTUS citation, that a fetus isn't a person. None of these strengthen arguments in favor of a federal right of women to have abortions guaranteed and heavily subsidized by taxpayers. In fact, they weaken it--especially the parasite and servitude type ones--because they are abominations of language and reason.

          1. KB Check Release   8 years ago

            "Just last week, I read some fool explaining how the fetus is a parasite"

            Oh God, no! Somebody lit the cytotoxic signal.

          2. dan'o en barrel   8 years ago

            The parasite concept is taught in medicine even though there are major inconsistencies that emerge with a few second's worth of thought. That maternal physiology causes miscarriage in most cases where the mother's life is threatened or if the fetus is severely malformed is a biggie.

            1. dchang0   8 years ago

              Also, absent the emotions stirred by sympathy for humans, if one looks at the definition of parasite vs. symbiote, a fetus does behave as a parasite. It doesn't generate/produce much of benefit to the host and consumes far, far more than it returns.

              One could argue that the fetus exchanges some fluids with the host, but so does a mosquito. And there are plenty of other parasites that can cause euphoric reactions in the host, so one cannot argue that a baby's ability to trigger positive emotions in the mother is the baby's symbiotic trade.

              1. Juice   8 years ago

                And if you think along the lines of The Selfish Gene, it's really the baby's genes using the mother to thrive and replicate.

              2. DarrenM   8 years ago

                The benefit is the reproduction of the host species. That's a pretty significant benefit.

          3. Rational Exuberance   8 years ago

            I think abortion supporters are doing their side a terrible disservice to their position

            I don't "support" abortion; in fact, I consider it sinful and wrong.

            The question is whether the US government has a right to punish women or doctors for performing abortions, and that's a very different question. I think it's quite clear that the US government does not have that right.

            A secondary question is whether a libertarian society would have the right to punish women for abortions. Again, I think such punishment would be inconsistent with libertarian principles.

      2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        Schofield, of course you can't prove it, because you are going to have to start with some assumptions that are based on different values for different people. Values do not have truth value.

        1. IceTrey   8 years ago

          Personhood requires individuality. Individuality requires independence. A fetus is 100% dependent on the mother therefore not a person.

          1. DenverJ   8 years ago

            So, a paraplegic who is ?100 percent dependent on their caregiver can be killed?

            1. IceTrey   8 years ago

              So is a newborn baby and anyone can take care of them but you only have one mother.

              1. IceTrey   8 years ago

                Think about this. If a fetus has rights do we charge a mother who accidently falls down the stairs with manslaughter? Maybe murder? What if she smokes or doesn't eat healthy? Child abuse?

                1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

                  Chemically harming your child in the womb is pretty evil actually, it is clearly different that accidentally falling down the stairs. Involuntary manslaughter (which I assume you were referring to) still requires some form of mens rea beyond a mere accident, so it is not the same as true accident of falling down the stairs.

                  I don't know where you are going with the child abuse question, of course abusing your child is a crime (the argument merely rests on what constitutes abuse).

                2. Bubba Jones   8 years ago

                  I will leave this right here

                  http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016.....arges.html

                  1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

                    24 weeks is straight up murder. There has to be some limit.

                    1. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

                      24 weeks is straight up murder.

                      Yup. My wife is at 25 weeks right now. The "straight up murder" line is waaaaay in the rearview mirror. Even at the 20 week anatomy scan, she was clearly a small human curled up in a ball, kicking, moving, and squirming. I first felt her kick around 17 weeks, and my wife felt it around 15 or 16.

                      My opinion is that implantation is a good "compromise" (allow for "emergency contraceptives", but not much after). However, my experience with my wife's pregnancy makes drawing a line after 20 weeks seem flat out barbaric.

                    2. Rational Exuberance   8 years ago

                      Even at the 20 week anatomy scan, she was clearly a small human curled up in a ball, kicking, moving, and squirming

                      Looking human isn't the same as personhood. After her accident, Terry Schiavo still looked like a human but was not a person anymore.

                    3. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

                      That sounds reasonable. However, the mother can still evict, as long as the fetus stays alive.

                    4. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

                      So long as the care for their creation (absent rape where they did not by definition participate in the creation).

                    5. Diane Merriam   8 years ago

                      If it is a human being at the moment of conception, then there can be no exceptions. It either is or it isn't. That's the argument that makes me the maddest when I hear it. You cannot kill a person for the acts, however abhorrent, of another.

                      Personally, I have trouble saying a small clump of cells has the same rights as an independent human being. But I also can't see any essential difference between a baby 5 minutes before birth and 5 minutes after. So location, in and of itself doesn't work as a definition either.

                      Viability is another common test proposed. But viability is also a matter of technology. At some point we will be able to grow a human being without being in a uterus at all. So that doesn't work.

                      Where I've uneasily made my peace is when the brain starts to function, with the same kind of brain waves that the lack of are used to define the end of human life. That's somewhere between 20 and 22 weeks. It is both an objective standard and consistent with law regarding the boundaries of protected human life at the other end.

                3. CZmacure   8 years ago

                  At what point, in your view, does the child become independent? When the umbilical cord is cut?

                  So if a full term baby is still attached, the mother can still "abort" it, because it's part of her body... ? I once had a pro-choice woman answer in the affirmative to this question, but most humans would not.

                  I don't like it, because I feel that abortion serves a valuable societal need, but ultimately logic seems to me grant personhood and rights at "viability" which due to technology will ultimately mean conception.

                4. Jay Kay   8 years ago

                  And yet, every state has "fetal homicide" laws.

                  http://www.ncsl.org/research/h.....-laws.aspx

                  1. Johnniest Doe   8 years ago

                    Enforcement of those fetal homicide laws is apparently in flux.

                    "Patel was arrested after she sought treatment at a local hospital for profuse bleeding after delivering a 1?-pound boy in a bathroom and putting his body in a trash bin at a Super Target near her family's restaurant, according to court records. The records show she bought abortion-inducing drugs from an online pharmacy in Hong Kong."
                    http://tinyurl.com/jv8ab22

                    From a related, earlier article: "A pathologist for the prosecution also testified that the baby's lungs passed a "floating test" ? the science of which has been contested ? indicating that the baby had drawn breath."
                    http://tinyurl.com/hr3hcc5

                    How's that not murder?

          2. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

            Individuality requires independence

            Bullshit.

            1. IceTrey   8 years ago

              Independent

              Free from outside control

              How do you characterize being in the womb?

              1. DenverJ   8 years ago

                Friday night

          3. Bra Ket   8 years ago

            How do we decide which conjoined twin gets to kill the other one? fight to the death?

            1. Diane Merriam   8 years ago

              If they will both die without separation, they pick the one they think most likely to survive ... that's a normal medical triage decision. Probably the one decision doctors hate to make the most, yet make it they must if either is to survive.

              1. Bra Ket   8 years ago

                That sidesteps the moral question. Assume they will both live without separation.

                1. Seamus   8 years ago

                  Even better, assume that if you wait nine months, you'll be able to separate them without any adverse effect on either.

          4. Toots shor   8 years ago

            Well, it's not a squirrel.

      3. Deep Lurker   8 years ago

        My take is that a fetus is a person if and when it becomes "brain alive" for the first time, and not before. This by symmetry to someone becoming permanently brain-dead - they can be removed from life support and (given the appropriate legal permissions) chopped up for spare parts.

        Or as I put it when I'm feeling snarky: "Abortion stops a beating heart - but so do heart transplants."

        1. DarrenM   8 years ago

          Imagine you have someone who is "brain dead". However, you know this person will recover in 9 months and will no longer be brain dead. Do you still have a moral right to terminate that life? Of course, the response will be that someone who is brain dead can't recover. (We know for a fact that a diagnosis of brain death is not 100% reliable. People have recovered from it.) If this is true, though, that would mean a fetus is NOT "brain dead", but something else and "brain dead" is an incorrect, possibly dishonest, way of describing the situation.

          1. Diane Merriam   8 years ago

            It depends on how they're measuring "brain dead." Too often it's just the state of the patient, persistent coma, never seen one like this recover, vegetative state, etc. without actual brain scans being run and getting a flat line. In fact, doing a Google search I only came up with one case of people recovering after being declared brain dead where brain scans were used at all, and that one explicitly mentioned that there weren't "enough" done to properly declare him dead.

    3. Bra Ket   8 years ago

      what if it organizes itself into a corporation?

      1. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        Then yes. That would prove sentience.

        1. IceTrey   8 years ago

          Sapience is what makes us human.

    4. Anna from MT   8 years ago

      And, in your opinion, at what exactly point of development, a human become a person? Does two days old premature baby is a person? If yes, what the difference between a premature baby who was born on week 24 and a 24 weeks old fetus? If not, would you allow to 'abort' 2 days olds, 2 month olds, 2 years old babies? Some 'babies' cannot survive on their own until after high school. Should we start 'aborting' everyone who don't work and exists purely on welfare benefits?

      1. Holger da Dane   8 years ago

        You know who else wanted to retro-actively abort the useless and the infirm?

        (The answer is early 20th century progressives.)

    5. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

      Yesterday's Executive Order changed the 14th Amendment. It now reads: "All ova fertilized...

  3. Not a True MJG   8 years ago

    Sheesh, now Wapo is trying to shut down private persons recording time-lapse video of public events. Sad!

    I'm not surprised there were a lot of Millennials. The Always Sunny episode will always be relevant.

  4. Charles Easterly   8 years ago

    I think Stephanie Slade's article was articulate and very much implied her viewpoint (and the viewpoints of other individuals).

    1. Trigger Hippie   8 years ago

      Agreed. Although I lean pro-life based on the principle of all human life being sacred, regardless of far along it happens to have physically progressed or where it resides, I must admit that I believe the sheer amount of governmental oversight and possible criminal inquries required to investigate what may be arbitrarily deemed a 'suspicious miscarriage' by overzealous hospital staff would lead to an unacceptable infringement upon our rights.

      Maybe I'm being a touch hyperbolic with that scenario but who knows. To be honest, it's a subject which I feel a great deal of conflict over and have yet to make peace with my stance in the matter. That's why I never comment on abortion threads.

      Either way, I appreciate the fact Reason gives Ms. Slade an occasional opportunity to gives us a libertarian perspective that isn't regarded by some as overtly Cosmo.

      Cheers, Steph. Hope you stick around for awhile.

      1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

        You are not being hyperbolic, that is not a possibility, it is a certainty. That is how it was before and how it is now in a zillion countries where abortion is illegal.

        1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

          It is an absolutely certain that the state will abuse the power and harass innocent people. That said, the state already abuses the power to prosecute murderers and rapists to harass innocent people and yet, to the extent we should have a state at all, murder and rape should be illegal.

          I do not think the reluctant pro-choice argument is immoral though. The state is utterly incapable of enforcing even legitimate crimes in moral manor. The inherent evil of the state is why I think the abortion issue should ultimately be solved by a change in culture (to accept the person-hood of unborn humans) and technology (artificial wombs, removing any property rights rather person-hood based arguments).

          1. CZmacure   8 years ago

            ultimately be solved by a change in culture (to accept the person-hood of unborn humans) and technology (artificial wombs, removing any property rights rather person-hood based arguments).

            Bing bing bing! Perfect artificial wombs would seem to dramatically weaken almost all good pro-abortion arguments.

            1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

              It doesn't completely solve it though without the cultural change. I'm currently reading the Darkship Thieves series (a very libertarian series and the first book won a Prometheus award), and the hypothetical future society in the book procreates exclusively through artificial wombs so that the women can continue to work. It's not delved into too deeply but the parents (rather than just the mother) clearly retain property rights, including termination, until some unelaborated point in development. I don't think it is a logically inconsistent position even though I disagree.

      2. Rhywun   8 years ago

        I am exactly where you are, Trigger.

      3. Lachowsky   8 years ago

        Having a child pushed me toward the pro life side. When my now wife got pregnant, it was not what I was looking for at all all the time. 5 years later, best thing that ever happened to me.

      4. Bra Ket   8 years ago

        Sounds like the perfect is the enemy of the good here. Can't have a justice system composed of humans without having human error.

      5. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

        TH, you expressed exactly how I feel. Well done.

        And count me in as one who is glad Reason covered it.

        Screw the rest of the media; someone should abort it.

      6. Duke of url   8 years ago

        Brava ms. Slade, well said trigger!

      7. el profesor er?tico   8 years ago

        I feel the exact same way on this. I think reasonable people from all sides on the debate could come up with a solution that 85%+ could agree on: "Restricted from conception? No. Allowed day before birth? No. So, somewhere in between then, yes. 20 weeks? 24? We all good on 24? Great, take the rest of the day off."

        Even with a good compromise, I'm afraid of the application of government power required to enforce it.

        Although I don't like what it does to our culture, I can really appreciate the good that accrues to the gene pool from allowing abortion.

    2. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

      The thing Stephanie overlooks is that definitions aren't logical. Logic is a set of rules of inference, and GIGO still applies. If a woman is defined as not an individual at times, then she at times lacks individual rights. Stupid assumptions yield dumb derivations.
      But observe the foaming hysteria of the bigots the GOP had to pander to to keep electricity legal just now. They correctly blame the LP for Roe v. Wade. Back when the LP had guts (and was kept off the teevee by all three networks) The electoral vote for John Hospers and Tonie Nathan came in as the Republican court was mulling over Roe v Wade. The Court decided against political suicide, exactly as in the recent Gay Marriage case, in order to stop a large bloc of voters from voting Libertarian. No effort or expense has since 1973 been spared to infiltrate us with mindless programmable mystics. Eternal vigilance is in order.

  5. R C Dean   8 years ago

    Well done, Ms. Slade.

  6. GILMORE?   8 years ago

    As usual, media outlets paid the protest minimal attention

    I'm sure they'll show a photo from space that demonstrates "clearly there was no one there"

    1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

      Don't they usually just wait a few hours after the main event and take their shot then?

      1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

        Whatever works, really. So many methods.

    2. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

      "This fetus bites back"?

      1. Rhywun   8 years ago

        LOL

  7. Ted S.   8 years ago

    Nice to see all the George Michael fans.

    1. Swiss Servator   8 years ago

      *very slow clap*

  8. Jerryskids   8 years ago

    I'm just glad there's no pics of the pro-life extremists with the knitted aborted-fetus hats.

    1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

      This made me laugh.

    2. el profesor er?tico   8 years ago

      Actually, that would be very cool. I can see the design incorporating a coat-hanger, somehow.

      BTW, I don't think you can really hang a coat from a coat-hanger, they're much to flimsy. Shouldn't we call them "shirt-hangers"?

  9. Suthenboy   8 years ago

    Thank you Stephanie, good article.

    It would be very informative if someone would take the time to put together an audio montage comparing the rhetoric of the speakers at the March for Life and the Trump protesters. Mike Pence vs. Ashley Judd for example.

    The difference between the MFL speakers - talk of liberty, inalienable rights, the sacredness of life - and the angry, ugly rhetoric of the protesters is very stark.

    Also, I notice no broken windows, bloody scalps, burning cars, or even trash on the ground in these photos.

    1. juris imprudent   8 years ago

      Sure, sure, she skipped a photo of the deep dish pizza.

      1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

        By coincidence this very evening I made a thin crust pizza with so many toppings on it that it could be mistaken for deep dish. This might explain my pro-life but sometimes abortion is necessary position.

  10. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

    Them pictures be whiter than Bernie Sanders event!
    Seriously, thanks for the article. But I was surprised to see CBC noticing it happened, even if 75% of the article is how abortion isn't a big deal! and it's on decline anyway and TRUUUUUUUMP!!!

    1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

      Martin Luther King's niece is a prominent prolife advocate. I'm not sure if she was at the march, but the criticized the so-called women's march:

      "Who's going to represent those little baby girls who've been aborted?"

      1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

        I'm sure, but look at Slade's photos! It's like canada up in that shit!

        1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

          If you're black, associating with the March for Life is like flipping off the Democratic Party, which for some weird reason is considered to be an act of Betrayal of Your People. So it takes a good deal of boldness. But I still saw black demonstrators when I went to earlier Marches.

          1. Lachowsky   8 years ago

            The company I work for hired a black electrician a month and a half ago. I have been training him since then. We haven't discussed politics at all until today. We didn't talk much, but he did say, "taxation is theft" I already like him more.

            1. The Knuckle   8 years ago

              Whispers in his ear " you complete me"

          2. Akira   8 years ago

            "Betrayal of Your People"

            It's truly repugnant that so many so-called "anti-racists" have this attitude that non-whites belong to the Democrat Party and cannot vote based on their own individually formed opinions.

            I'm glad I've never met one of these shitheels in real life, because if one of them told me that I'm "betraying" "my people" by not voting blue, I'd probably lose my shit and end up in jail. I don't fucking belong to any political party or racial group. I'm an individual human being with the ability to think rationally (until I pass the 12-beer mark).

            1. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

              The Democratic and God's Own party are looter collectivist gangs. Since electricity replaced chattel slavery the Dems have gone over to communism to bring it back. The Republicans started out as commies (see Uncle Tom's Cabin, The Red Republican) but the impetus of foaming mystical fanaticism carried them first into the National Socialist camp (after Bert Hoover lost), then into anti-communism. Republican anti-communism is not economic at all. They hate commies because commies don't love Jesus. The Libertarian party, which operates leveraged spoiler votes to change the laws, does not need to compromise with ku-klux and other mystical looter coalitions. As the party of principle we quietly force the repeal of bad laws. Their tears and blood drawn are delicious, and I could watch commies and nationalsocialists fight all day--and place bets on the side.

          3. Akira   8 years ago

            There's a special place in Progressive Hell for members of "oppressed" groups who don't fall in line and vote like they're supposed to. Cases in point: the "progressive" left's treatment of Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Milo Yiannopoulis, etc. Hell, they're even comfortable calling them "uncle Toms" and "clowns in blackface".

            Racist as fuck.

            1. Texasmotiv   8 years ago

              Move over, Uncle Sam! It's time for Uncle Tom to drive!
              ~Kmele 2020

        2. John Titor   8 years ago

          Not enough Asians.

        3. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

          Canada had abortion laws back in the Dark Ages, but repealed them all. Canada never did have much of a Ku-klux klan, though, nor a Landover Baptist Church.

  11. The Fusionist   8 years ago

    Thank you, Reason, for sending out your prolife caucus to cover this.

    More Stephanie Slade, please.

    1. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

      Congrats, Fuse.

      Especially interesting:
      But for every one person outside the high school/college student demographic, there seemed to be five or ten inside of it. They came to Washington by the busload to speak, listen, march, and pray.

      And this is legit as well:
      Evidence suggests libertarians are more likely to be pro-choice than pro-life. But as I've written, there's nothing logically inconsistent about thinking people of all ages and stages should be protected from aggression.

      Even though it lights the Hihn signal.

      1. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

        Should have bolded aggression.

      2. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

        Stefanie is gonna make the list! Yay!

        All I ask is she gets ahead of John Titor.

        1. Swiss Servator   8 years ago

          Hey friendo, that would bump me down to #10!?!

          1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

            Not if you kill Titor.

            Let's get all No More Heroes in here!

            1. John Titor   8 years ago

              Bitch, I got a time machine and multiverse theory is true. Bring it on.

              1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

                Since I'm not on the list, I see myself more as Sylvia Krystel in this analogy...

                1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

                  Wow, did you ever just date yourself. I haven't heard that name in...uh...I cant remember.

                  1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

                    For those who missed the best gaming satire of 2006-2012, wiki link and if I weren't on iPad I would provide the opening video (look it up).

                2. John Titor   8 years ago

                  I'm going to guess you don't have the tits for it. Hopefully.

                  1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

                    Maybe in volume, but how do you compete with that?

        2. juris imprudent   8 years ago

          It won't be until mid-day Sunday that this thread is desecrated by MH.

        3. John Titor   8 years ago

          *Looks up from counting gold (((teeth)))*

          I'm sorry, what?

    2. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

      More Stephanie Slade, please.

      This.

    3. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

      Less Steph YAF, and less Lyndon la Rouche!

  12. Monty Crisco   8 years ago

    Reason giving EQUAL TIME?!?! WTF?!? Is this some new editorial initiative or something? Stephanie, you won't be invited to the BEST cocktail parties with articles like this!!!

    1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

      Define 'best'.

      1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

        Robby gets so drunk he reveals The Secrets of the Hair.

        1. Swiss Servator   8 years ago

          Go on...

          1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

            I never get invited to those parties 🙁

          2. Rhywun   8 years ago

            Yeah, that's about the least interesting thing I could imagine following the words "Robby gets so drunk he..."

            1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

              ...puts on a MAGA hat and starts working on his car engine?

              1. Rhywun   8 years ago

                Perhaps less likely but not exactly the direction I was going.

            2. Lachowsky   8 years ago

              he puts on his goat ropers and has congress with..... oh nevermind.

              1. Rhywun   8 years ago

                Now you're just being disgusting. But warmer.

                1. grrizzly   8 years ago

                  Last time somebody wanted to watch Robby masturbate a grizzly bear. Is this what you wanted to hear, Rhywun?

                  1. Rhywun   8 years ago

                    Dear God no. Sometimes I forget where I am.

          3. John Titor   8 years ago

            I think it's rather obvious that it involves orphan blood.

        2. Suthenboy   8 years ago

          I was thinking the best ones are the ones you don't have to carry around a five gallon bucket of sanitary wipes so you can disinfect your hands after every handshake.

  13. C. S. P. Schofield   8 years ago

    Mark me down as a grouch, but I'd kind of like to know if they picked up after themselves, vandalized any monuments, broke and windows, torched any cars, or punched anyone.

    Anyone know?

    1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

      I think there's a clue here:

      "As usual, media outlets paid the protest minimal attention"

    2. Crusty Juggler - #2   8 years ago

      They did pick up after themselves, but they also tortured and murdered the homeless.

      1. R C Dean   8 years ago

        So, win-win?

      2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        The surviving homeless were subjected to Christian rock, which is even worse.

        1. DenverJ   8 years ago

          Pantera rocks! (Not really)

  14. Tman   8 years ago

    It's insane how the regular media ignores this march every year.

    ABC deleted Trump's March for Life reference from the online transcript of his recent interview, which was hilarious.

    ABC:So could you hear the womens march from your office? They say there were millions at this event.

    Trump: Nope. You guys gonna cover the March for Life next week? They have millions and you guys never cover it. Why is that??

    ABC: LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT CROWD SIZES AND WHATNOT. SHEESH.

    Great reporting Ms. Slade.

    1. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

      It's one the front page of Google News.

  15. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   8 years ago

    #ShoutYourAccidentalPregnancy

  16. American sociaIist   8 years ago

    What a bunch of busybodies. My body, my choice-- church ladies.

    1. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

      Hey did you ever figure out that energy actually includes entropy and that NPT isn't the only ensemble anyone ever uses?

  17. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

    Regardless of your position on abortion, it's pretty much undeniable that these posters are less 100%-pure-insane than their pro-choice Wymyns' March counterparts.

    1. Sevo   8 years ago

      Low bar.

      1. juris imprudent   8 years ago

        Limbo contest?

        1. Trigger Hippie   8 years ago

          I've got $20 on Hermes.

      2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        Halp, James Cameron!

  18. mtrueman   8 years ago

    "thinking people of all ages and stages should be protected from aggression."

    By whom, there's the rub.

    1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

      STEVE SMITH, duh. He hates aggression by others.

    2. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

      Protected from aggression by whom
      or
      Protected by whom from aggression

      ?

      1. Sevo   8 years ago

        It's trueman; he spouts one inanity or the other in the hopes that someone will mistake it for some profundity.
        He's an idiot.

        1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

          ^^

        2. mtrueman   8 years ago

          "He's an idiot."

          I've never hidden the fact. I also know some of the tricks writers play with the passive voice. ie "The cake was eaten."

          1. Sevo   8 years ago

            mtrueman|1.27.17 @ 10:48PM|#
            "I've never hidden the fact. I also know some of the tricks writers play with the passive voice. ie "The cake was eaten."

            Well, look there! The idiot admits to being an idiot and proves it once again!
            Folks, he'll be here as often as he can sneak back in an hope no one notices!

      2. mtrueman   8 years ago

        Opens up a whole can of worms, doesn't it. Best just leave this by whom stuff out of it. It makes a fine platitude as it stands.

        1. Sevo   8 years ago

          mtrueman|1.27.17 @ 10:45PM|#
          "Opens up a whole can of worms, doesn't it."

          No, it seems to suggest you should offer more lame bullshit.
          No one here is fooled by your pretensions. Fuck off, and troll for hits on your pathetic blog elsewhere.

          1. mtrueman   8 years ago

            There's nothing pretentious about my comments here.

  19. Karl Hungus   8 years ago

    John Hurt has died.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....ed-77.html

    1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

      RIP - he was Richard Rich in Man For All Seasons.

      1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

        He was great, but at the time I kept thinking about Richie Rich.

        1. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

          Richie Rich and Caspar the Friendly Ghost are the same person. Think about it.

          And they should fornicate.

          1. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

            Casper.

    2. Not a True MJG   8 years ago

      DAMN IT

      1984 IS HERE

    3. Swiss Servator   8 years ago

      Dang...

      1. Karl Hungus   8 years ago

        My thoughts exactly. After last year, I'm used to these people dropping like flies. This one is really bothering me, though.

        1. straffinrun   8 years ago

          He aged the way I wish I could have. That black and white pic of him is excellent. He just rolled with years and adjusted his fashion accordingly. Yes, Madonna, I'm looking at you. I look like a terminally ill 27 year old rather than the 47 year old I am. Time to throw out the flannel hoodie I suppose.

          1. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

            I'm in my mid-40s and still get carded...in the U.S. anyway. Buncha babies.

            1. Rhywun   8 years ago

              Honey, don't flatter yourself. Some of them are trained to card anyone that looks under retirement age now. Thank a lawyer and/or government official south of you.

              1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

                It's really dependent though, I've recently turned 30 and haven't been carded in ages outside of liquor stores (who always card everyone here), even though the law says I should be carded. I think regrowing my beard has been a big part of that though, gotta cover the baby face.

                1. Rhywun   8 years ago

                  I'm in my late 40s and still get carded at some big chains like Rite Aid, but I don't think I've ever been carded at a liquor store, ever. (NY liquor stores are not run by the government FWIW.)

                  1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

                    Part of it certainly corporate culture. 95% of the time I shop at not only the biggest chain in the state but the biggest individual liquor store in Houston. That said I don't remember ever not being carded in a liquor store. I think the POS system they use requires input of an age. Grocery store POS systems commonly do the same thing but he employees are much more likely to just click through it.

              2. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

                In all seriousness, my wife and I can easily pass as being in our late 20s or 30s.

                No one believes us when we tell our age - and my wife is older than me!

                1. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

                  Scratch that 20s part - 30s.

                  1. Rhywun   8 years ago

                    I looked like a teenager until I was about 30. Then I got a real job and realized I was probably just undernourished the whole time. Then I went gray around 35 and that was the end of that.

                    1. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

                      Well, I am very thin.

                  2. Cloudbuster   8 years ago

                    Rufus aged before our eyes.

          2. Not a True MJG   8 years ago

            I'm shocked to learn he was only 77. It seemed like he was in his 70s for the past 20 years or more.

            But he had a great voice.

            1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

              It seemed like he was in his 70s for the past 20 years or more.

              he was a very very very heavy drinker for a long time.

              1. Not a True MJG   8 years ago

                *eyes bottle of whisky*

                So I could look like John Hurt, or I could look like Donald Trump and Penn Jillette...

                1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

                  7 bottles of wine a day. sometimes "what you drink" (and how) is the key-factor in the decrepitude. plenty of heavy drinkers don't start to disintegrate in their 40s. you have to put some special effort into it.

    4. GILMORE?   8 years ago

      I will always remember him as the proto-monkey-man in Altered States

      oh, JOHN Hurt. My bad. I will always remember him for his greatest performances, both of which feature the word, "bleargh"

      1. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        LOL. Great movie, though.

      2. DarrenM   8 years ago

        He was a great trumpet player, too.

    5. American Memer   8 years ago

      John Hurt is my Doctor tbh

  20. straffinrun   8 years ago

    If you try to kick a person off your airplane in mid flight for refusing to make a gay wedding cake, you are responsible for the damage his corpse does to the border wall.

    1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

      Welp, now we know what was in the box.

      1. straffinrun   8 years ago

        No Spoilers.

        1. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

          Layne Staley's skull? How much did that cost?

          1. straffinrun   8 years ago

            Less than it cost him. The needle marks in the orbital sockets tell a cute forensic tale.

  21. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

    OT, for anyone worrying about Trump's latest Imperial Edict, from BBC

    The text of the order was released several hours after it was signed. Among the measures are:

    Suspension of the US Refugee Admissions Programme for 120 days
    A ban on refugees from Syria until "significant changes" are made
    A 90-day suspension on arrivals from Iraq, Syria, and countries designated "areas of concern"
    To prioritise future refugee applications on the basis of religious-based persecution - but only if the person is part of a minority religion in their home country
    A cap of 50,000 refugees in 2017 - less than half of Mr Obama's upper limit

    However, a mention of creating "safe zones" within Syria, seen in an earlier draft, was removed from the final order.

    1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

      I'm relieved at that last part.

      1. DenverJ   8 years ago

        I heard that evil Trump is going to outlaw abortions for Syrian refugees

        1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

          I recall mentioning to Mike Godwin about Hitler's encouragement of abortion among "inferior" races.

          That was when he ventured into the comments once. Funny, I haven't seen him around lately.

          1. DenverJ   8 years ago

            Hitler?

            1. American Memer   8 years ago

              You know who else we haven't seen around lately?

              1. Vaelyn   8 years ago

                Tony?

    2. KevinP   8 years ago

      To prioritise future refugee applications on the basis of religious-based persecution - but only if the person is part of a minority religion in their home country

      This is good. 95% of the "refugees" that Obama admitted from Syria and Iraq were Sunni Muslims. Less than 5% were Yazidi and Christian, although these two groups have been the hardest hit.

      1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

        I will never stop pointing out that PM Zoolander found the idea of priority for Christians and Jazidis disgusting, and abolished the program when he got to power.

  22. __Warren__   8 years ago

    I was just watching the news. Apparently, Donald Trump was elected president at some point. Does anyone else know this?

    It's somewhat surprising, I must say.

    1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

      He was not elected, he was installed by Russian tanks.

      Sentient T-34/85s who look like anime chicks for some reason, specifically.

      1. John Titor   8 years ago

        I really don't want to know why you seem to know so much about animes involving schoolgirls and Soviet era combat vehicles.

        1. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

          I was thinking more Panzermadels

          1. John Titor   8 years ago

            Oh, I knew what you were talking about. Anime, visual novels, whatever.

            I'm just saying...it's suspicious.

    2. DenverJ   8 years ago

      What? Dude, you're crazy. He's just some weird reality TV star; who the hell would vote for him?

      1. Bra Ket   8 years ago

        Bush would ever give up power and allow elections anyway.

    3. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

      Naw that was just a joke from The Simpsons.

    4. Rufus The Monocled   8 years ago

      HE'S NOT LEGITIMATE AND HE'S NOT THEIR PRESIDENT!

  23. Brainwashed   8 years ago

    The religious indoctrination of children is a serious problem where I live. It's almost child abuse to trick a child into believing this insanity. Religions are the original alternative facts. Beware of this shit.

    1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

      You know what else is like child abuse? Killing them.

      1. Suthenboy   8 years ago

        I was trying to post that, word for word, but when I try to post something the page goes to some weird ad page then reloads to a blank page.
        The blank page won't load anything, just keeps reloading a blank page. I have to open a new window and start all over. My comments appear about one in ten times. It is very frustrating.

        1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

          It wasn't just you.

    2. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

      This is a totally new, original thought, and certainly not something I was taught since I was 5. Thank you, random new poster who is totally not a sock!

      Smrt fa?izmu, sloboda narodu!

      1. straffinrun   8 years ago

        Where random poster lives is empirical evidence that there is no god.

        1. DenverJ   8 years ago

          Meh, they made a great car back in the eighties

      2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        Ah yes, the days when "Serbo-Croatian" was a thing.

    3. John Titor   8 years ago

      We've gone from Nietzsche to this people. This is why New Atheism sucks.

      1. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        Anything that ends with "theism" sucks.

        1. American Memer   8 years ago

          "ism"

          FTFY

    4. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

      The religious indoctrination of children is a serious problem where I live.

      Those damned religous children getting up early on Sundays, abstaining from sex in high school, and wearing those stupid WWJD bracelets! Get off my lawn you Invisible Sky Daddy believers!!!

      1. DenverJ   8 years ago

        What Would (Denver) J Do

        1. DOOMco   8 years ago

          Whiskey?

        2. DOOMco   8 years ago

          And a vape.

          1. DenverJ   8 years ago

            Damn straight. A vape loaded with shatter- nicotine is the Debil (unless it's in a cigar)

            1. DOOMco   8 years ago

              I don't know how you do concentrate. More power to ya.
              I just got home from the store. Mix and match 2 quarters, get the early bird price for the half.

              1. DenverJ   8 years ago

                Just do less. Upside: you don't smell like a skunk.

            2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

              I read that as loaded with Shattner, for some unexplainable reason.

              1. DenverJ   8 years ago

                Dude, whatever floats your boat.

      2. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

        I have it on good authority that all the religious guys are pussies and all the chicks hot, sex-starved vixens. What's the problem?

    5. DOOMco   8 years ago

      The bible and church are the reasons I'm not religious.

      There are non religious arguments on both sides of abortion.

      1. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

        No doubt it is a difficult issue. I've thought about it a lot, going back and forth between the two sides. In the end, I think Walter Block's evictionism makes the most sense, if applied after legal personhood is established. When legal personhood begins is the thorny issue, of course. Somewhere in the second trimester is my guess. I also think this is what most reasonable people would conclude.

        1. DOOMco   8 years ago

          At least as far as where the law should be, that sounds about right. Its no easy thing. it all hinges on personhood, and i suppose how strict we interpret the NAP

          1. DarrenM   8 years ago

            I don't think you can look at "legal" personhood, though. It was once legal to own slaves, too. In some cultures, it was legal to sacrifice virgins to volcanoes or whatever else was to hand, which was a real waste of virgins, but what can you do?

        2. DenverJ   8 years ago

          I'm pro legal abortion, but the assumption that prolife is automagically unlibertarian is horse shit.

          1. straffinrun   8 years ago

            Why have I never seen THAT word before?

            1. DenverJ   8 years ago

              What, "horse"? It's a 4 legged mammal.

            2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

              That's a good word.

              1. DenverJ   8 years ago

                It's not mine. I stole "automagically" from a tv ad about some music app a few years ago.

                1. American Memer   8 years ago

                  I've only ever seen "atuomagically" in Erfworld, so...

                  1. cavalier973   8 years ago

                    You read Erfworld while waiting on the next OotS, then?

        3. Sevo   8 years ago

          First, I doubt there are many people at all who are "pro abortion". The few women I know who have had one did not get pregnant so they could do so, so we need to put that meme aside.

          "When legal personhood begins is the thorny issue, of course."
          IFAIK, this is the only issue which needs resolution. I tend to agree with you, but there are plenty who are willing to define it 'way earlier.

          1. DenverJ   8 years ago

            Actually, there are "pro abortion" people. They tend to be racist, although not always, and the idea is that it decreases crime and spares innocents from being forced to live in appalling circumstances.

            1. Sevo   8 years ago

              DenverJ|1.27.17 @ 10:27PM|#
              "Actually, there are "pro abortion" people."

              I'll bet four or five.

              1. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

                Meh, there seem to be a few of the Lena Dunham types who want to celebrate their abortions. It is, however, a small but vocal minority. Similar to the anti-abortion people who spend their free time protesting outside abortion clinics.

                Abortion is a complicated issue that doesn't lend itself well to black and white moralizing for most people's principles.

                I'm guessing the majority of the people at the march for life would be sympathetic to a rape victim who took RU-486. And most of the people at the women's march last week probably would have some moral unease at aborting a fetus at 8 months.

          2. straffinrun   8 years ago

            Yep. "Reduce harmful procedures" seems like the only way forward.

          3. The Fusionist   8 years ago

            I certainly wouldn't describe these men and women a pro-abortion.

            1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

              *as* pro-abortion

        4. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

          Outside of rape, the evictionism argument completely ignores the mother's decision to engage in a procreative act. Beyond that, I'm not convinced that trespass should be capital crime. I don't even see how a fetus is a trespasser though when they are put where they are without their consent.

          1. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

            I think that's where the pro-choice argument and especially the evictionist argument is weakest. Their analysis starts in medias res. I don't think I have seen an evictionist argument that fully addresses the problem that the mother tacitly consented* to the "trespass" and that the fetus didn't consent to it.

            *Minus rape

          2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

            What?? There is no contract created during the sex act. That line of argument carries no water from any kind of legal perspective. As for the trespass, that is what evictionism claims, that you can evict but not kill.

            1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

              Sex is procreative act no matter how many preventatives we use. You inherently consent to the possibility of pregnancy. The fetus certainly doesn't consent to its existence, hence the responsibility of those who did consent (the parents) to care for the child or arrange for someone else to. If they can transfer to an artificial womb that is fine but they would still be financially responsible until they transfer that responsibility.

              I'm not positive that all evictionists are pro-life under currently available technology either.

            2. Heroic Mulatto   8 years ago

              There is no contract created during the sex act.


              Tell that to a father forced to pay child support.

              1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

                I'M 1000% SURE!

            3. DarrenM   8 years ago

              So, if there is no "contract", there is no agreement. Hence, the sex act is rape.

            4. DarrenM   8 years ago

              So, if there is no "contract", there is no agreement. Hence, the sex act is rape.

          3. Akira   8 years ago

            "the mother's decision to engage in a procreative act."

            This, along with the fact that a fetus becomes a human being at some hard-to-discern point, has made me somewhat less pro-abortion rights. I'm still reluctantly in favor of it since a government prohibition brings severe problems with it.

          4. DarrenM   8 years ago

            Well, according to the Left, women are too emotional and ignorant to be able to control their own choice to engage in a behavior that has a high likelihood of resulting in pregnancy, so they can't really be held accountable for their own decisions. Also, men are really just animals who prey on unsuspecting women with the sole intention to impregnate them against their will.

  24. straffinrun   8 years ago

    My hometown made The Onion. I miss Chicken Waffles.

    1. DenverJ   8 years ago

      Haven't seen Waffles in a bit. Wonder where he is. Also, don't call him chicken

      1. AlmightyJB   8 years ago

        Isn't Waffles also Vampire?

        1. DenverJ   8 years ago

          Who knows. I can't keep track

        2. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

          Did he get bitten by Hihn? I thought Hihn didn't have any teeth anymore. I suppose they make vampire dentures.

          1. DenverJ   8 years ago

            Fossils of giant pterosaurs found in Transylvania

  25. esteve7   8 years ago

    OT: So, Reason --- I've been working everyday since 12/28/16, 12-15 hours a day (I work in IT), and have another long weekend of work coming up.

    I go out of my room and my proggy roommate (who has a very cushy 8-5 job where he spends have his time posting leftist crap on facebook and watching the daily show), started complaining about how "stressful" his job was today, and grunting and groaning randomly.

    I really don't know what to say to that, so I turned around and walked right back to my room.

    1. straffinrun   8 years ago

      Don't live with a proggy roommate. Life is too short.

    2. Rhywun   8 years ago

      Hang in there - it'll get better. It might take a couple decades.

    3. John Titor   8 years ago

      Drink.

    4. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

      However much of a douche your roommate is, if 12-15 hour days is a standard rather than a limited crunch time thing, you should get another job. Life is too short for that.

      1. esteve7   8 years ago

        usually it's not that bad, but dec/jan is the worst time of the year by far. getting lots of comp time at least

        the joke is I am out maybe once a month to LA or San Diego to go to the theme parks, visit family, see a Giants game in San Diego, etc, because if I'm not physically out of the bay area I will end up working.

        So I have SD and Vegas coming up at the end of next month, the SD / Giants for my B-Day in April, San Diego / LA in May, July, August, Reno in June.

        So yeah it's either 7 days a week 12+ hrs a day, or 4/5 day weekend to get out of Dodge. Nothing in-between

        1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

          I feel you, as a lawyer I sometimes have absolutely brutal months and other times where I work a normal work week. I'd almost prefer the crunch time being at a predictable time a year. I definitely choose to work at a small firm rather than big law though because working those hours all the time is not worth the marginal increase in salary. No point in making money if you don't have time to spend it.

          1. esteve7   8 years ago

            well said, agree completely. I'm at a smaller company in IT so when it's crunch time, that's pretty much all you're doing. A few years ago I didn't have a single day off in 5 1/2 months, but I do have a flexible schedule now and can take a lot of time off during lulls.

            I got my first Disneyland pass because I have family down there, and went 17 days in a year (8 trips). I need it to keep sane, lol.

            Crunch time is nice though, I think I do better work under pressure than when it's slow.

            1. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

              Crunch time is nice though, I think I do better work under pressure than when it's slow.

              Yes, as long as it isn't all consuming. It sounds like your employer does a good job of giving you leeway to make up for the rough parts. Crunch time makes the day go a lot faster than when you're twiddling your thumbs.

            2. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

              Of course, but when crunch time is all the time its not crunch time anymore. Crunch time is when its even worse!

          2. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

            How many freaking lawyers are there on Reason? Also, fuck the bar exam. I haven't wanted to kill myself this much in a very long time.

            1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

              The bar exam sucked, but when I realized how high the passage rate is and that the number of retards in the room was higher than the failure rate it didn't seem so bad. Absent moving between states (and dependent on reciprocity) you only have to take it once!

            2. DenverJ   8 years ago

              "first thing we do is kill all the lawyers" -Bill S.

    5. DenverJ   8 years ago

      Push him up against the wall, get up in his face, and hiss "motherfucker, if I have to listen to one more whiny little pussy bitch about anything, I'm going to gut that person like a fish."
      It'll be fun, I promise.

      1. John Titor   8 years ago

        I mean, at least DenverJ gets laid after listening to whining.

        1. DenverJ   8 years ago

          Unless i get annoyed enough to tell her what i think of her stupid stupidity.

          1. Chipper Morning Wood   8 years ago

            Don't be stupid, DenverJ.

      2. Pan Zagloba   8 years ago

        Watching Oz again, DJ?

        1. AlmightyJB   8 years ago

          That show had great acting but was a bit much.

    6. AlmightyJB   8 years ago

      Just think about how all the saved retirement money you'll have to enjoy life while he'll still be an idiot whinebag. That should make you feel a little better.

    7. DarrenM   8 years ago

      Get another job. I really hope you are paid well for that.

  26. commodious rebrands   8 years ago

    These people just obviously don't understand the magic of having a pregnancy aborted and never having to deal with the consequences.

    1. AlmightyJB   8 years ago

      I wish I were a woman so I could get pregnent and have an abortion. It's not fair. Those bitches need to check their privilege.

  27. Rational Exuberance   8 years ago

    It's like the only two political choices in the US are (1) make everybody pay for free abortions for anybody who wants them at any time, and (2) throw women and doctors in jail for performing any abortions.

    How about we just keep government out of the abortion issue altogether? Most people consider abortion sinful, but not everything that is sinful needs to be criminalized.

    1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

      If abortion is murder (or abortion after a certain level of development is murder) this is not an acceptable compromise. Payment with confiscated tax money for abortion is a non-sequitur, that is completely unacceptable to any libertarian.

  28. Sevo   8 years ago

    Leftie bling lovers pissed at bling which ain't lefty:

    "Melania Trump is eating jewels on Vanity Fair Mexico's cover, and people are furious
    ...]
    "First lady Melania Trump is on the cover of Vanity Fair's Mexican edition, and many Mexicans are both baffled and furious, given the current strain between President Donald Trump and Mexico."
    http://www.sfgate.com/technolo.....889483.php

    WIH that image would have anything to do with Trump's closed-borders stance is a mystery to me. Maybe an abortion is involved.

    1. Rhywun   8 years ago

      an "insult to our country,"

      Is there some shared national trauma about eating diamonds that completely escapes us gringos? Because I read the article and it doesn't make a lick of sense.

      1. Heroic Mulatto   8 years ago

        Diamonds look like Chiclets, and Santa Anna was pretty much the step-father of Chiclets.

        1. Sevo   8 years ago

          Nope. No click on your blind links.
          I got your number.

          1. Heroic Mulatto   8 years ago

            During his time living in New York City, he is credited with bringing in the first shipments of chicle, the base of chewing gum. He failed to profit from this, since his plan was to use the chicle to replace rubber in carriage tires, which was tried without success.

            Thomas Adams, the American assigned to aid Santa Anna while he was in the U.S., experimented with chicle in an attempt to use it as a substitute for rubber. He bought one ton of the substance from Santa Anna, but his experiments proved unsuccessful. Instead, Adams helped to found the chewing gum industry with a product that he called "chiclets".

            The Trickster God is the one true god.

            1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPIcwFKrTus

            2. Sevo   8 years ago

              I'm sorry he didn't make a bundle on his efforts, but he seems a bit 'flexible':

              "His political positions changed frequently in his lifetime; "his opportunistic politics made him a Liberal, Conservative, and uncrowned king."[9] He was overthrown for the last time by the liberal Revolution of Ayutla in 1854 and lived most of his later years in exile."

              1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

                He was flexible in the way all tyrants are: whatever will keep them in power. He even failed repeatedly at that though.

              2. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

                It seems like losing almost half of Mexico's territory at the time to the US, including Texas, Nevada, and California would be a bigger black mark against his legacy.

                And now I've got The Yellow Rose of Texas stuck in my head. Even though the story that Santa Anna lost Texas because he was more concerned about getting busy with a woman, who in the parlance of the time would have been described as a 'High Yellow', is somewhat apocryphal.

    2. Sevo   8 years ago

      I must mention that the Chron is 'fish in a barrel'.
      Can't remember the name of the former NYT writer who blew the whistle on the top-down, narrative-directed editing direction, but from acquaintances who do and did write for the Chron, that's pretty much what goes on there.
      Judging by the paper and e-version, it seems the quota is something like 4-5 Trump-bashings per day. Some are really lame ('What Trump's Name Means in Chinese"), others less so but misleading anyhow, as in when K. Pender (one of the few who refuses to write in lefty language) still got stuck with a headline regarding how the Dow rise 'didn't help the poor' when writing about the dramatic rise since the election.
      I do not know her, but I'm sorry she has to tolerate that shit.

  29. Suthenboy   8 years ago

    I just now became aware of this. BBC: Makes our media look fair, balanced and intellectually honest.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMocu3CTcEQ

    1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

      Anybody who watched the Brexit coverage live as it happened would be disabused of that notion. They were freaking the fuck out, it was easily the most enjoyable night of news coverage I watched in 2016. When Sunderland came in for Brexit and Newcastle (Labor hotbeds and therefore what conventional wisdom assumed were Remain hotbeds) barely came in as Remain rather than a blowout you could see quite plainly the physical change in their demeanor. It is doubly evil as it is tax payer funded.

      1. Sevo   8 years ago

        "...it was easily the most enjoyable night of news coverage I watched in 2016..."

        Better than the slow realization by the lefty US press that the hag was gonna be the President Reject?
        Dunno, that was hard to beat; I kept expecting some state I'd missed was gonna go hag-wunnerful, and it never happened.

        1. Apatheist ?_??   8 years ago

          Yeah it was definitely better, because no matter how fun our election was we still were stuck with Trump at the end of it.

          1. Sevo   8 years ago

            Ya know, that was my take at the time, but given the +/- ratio since then he (and/or his staff) have done a pretty good job.
            I despise his protectionism, but I'm not sure the cancelation of the Pac agreement was harmful; I opposed that since that miserable fucking liar Obo hid what was in it, and I trusted him to screw me every chance he got.
            Man, I'm happy he's gone!

          2. PapayaSF   8 years ago

            I loved seeing the NY Times(?) "likely winner" meter needle move slowly away from "almost certainly Hillary" over the course of the evening.

    2. straffinrun   8 years ago

      Prefacing every question with a laundry list of virtue signals is going to be the new normal at press conferences. Fucking hacks.

    3. Rhywun   8 years ago

      OMFG. I thought his response was remarkably restrained.

      1. straffinrun   8 years ago

        Restrained in the face of a "strafing run". In fact, that is where I got my handle from. Lefties dump a pile of highly debatable statements on the table and then wrap up it up with an unanswerable question.

        1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

          Lefties dump a pile of highly debatable statements on the table and then wrap up it up with an unanswerable question.

          exactly. its become so shallow and transparent that they're completely disinterested in the content of any answer = they just want to shit up the entire environment, and make the conversation about "DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH WE WANT EVERYONE TO HATE YOU? HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL = GIVE US SOME JUICY QUOTES TO MISCONSTRUE", as though that's "holding government accountable" or "helping expose crucial information", or anything that might be considered within the public interest.

          1. straffinrun   8 years ago

            They're always saying "Let's unpack that answer" yet it never crosses their mind to "unpack" the bs question. It's Tower of Babel heights of incoherence.

            1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

              They're always saying "Let's unpack that answer"

              iow, 'let's translate it into what we want it to mean'

              the most common (and tiresome) form of argument i hear from millenials on the intertubes is the

              "So what you're saying is [INSERT GIGANTIC FLIMSY STRAW MAN], right?"

              Which, for 'twitter fights' is fine and all; its when 'Prestige-Media Journalist-Professionals' do it in "interviews" that it gets completely fucking ridiculous.

          2. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

            The TPP was DOA, whether Clinton or Trump became president.

            1. JeremyR   8 years ago

              I dunno. I think Hillary would have approved it despite what she campaigned on. She's not going to turn her back on that sort of graft.

          3. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

            The thing that bugged me was in the first press conference, the WH press corps asked the new guy, "Do you promise you won't ever lie to us?"

            That's not really a question for a presidential briefing, that's a question a woman who just went through a bad break up asks the guy she met at the bar 15 minutes before closing time. If you had asked the last guy that same question, you might not be in this mess.

        2. DenverJ   8 years ago

          "So, when did you stop beating your wife?"

    4. GILMORE?   8 years ago

      "Did you feel the president undressing you with his eyes, and how nauseous did you become in his presence?"

  30. JayU   8 years ago

    What's the difference between a pile of dead babies and a red corvette?

    1. straffinrun   8 years ago

      She made a raspberry pur?e. I think I love her.

    2. GILMORE?   8 years ago

      dead babies are a woman's RIGHT

    3. Chip Your Pets   8 years ago

      I don't have a red corvette in my garage.

      1. cavalier973   8 years ago

        Are you the protagonist or antagonist in a Sugarfree short story?

  31. JayU   8 years ago

    How many dead babies does it take to paint a barn?

    1. American Memer   8 years ago

      Probably a few thousand, because you have to build the barn first.

  32. JayU   8 years ago

    What's worse than 100 dead babies in 100 trash cans?

    1. Chip Your Pets   8 years ago

      It's supposed to be "in a trash can", not 100 trash cans.

      1. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

        If you're going to do dead baby jokes, at least get them right. You're like Biff Tannen with your delivery of your lame jokes.

        1. lap83   8 years ago

          Arguing over dead baby jokes...why aren't there any libertarian women again?

  33. __Warren__   8 years ago

    "Strike abortion down and it will become more powerful than you can imagine"--- OB-Gyn Kenobi.

  34. JayU   8 years ago

    What's the difference between a pile of dead babies and a pile of leaves?

    1. Rhywun   8 years ago

      7th grade just flashed before my eyes.

    2. Chip Your Pets   8 years ago

      It's no fun to cut up a pile of leaves with a chainsaw.

      1. Juice   8 years ago

        I thought that it was harder to move a pile of leaves with a pitchfork.

  35. straffinrun   8 years ago

    Why do strangers keep spraying me with Fabreeze?

    1. Rhywun   8 years ago

      I shudder to think what flavors of Febreze they have in Japan.

      1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

        I shudder to think what flavors of Febreze they have in Japan.


        "Crab Fandango"
        "Autumn Fermented Soy"
        "Mollusk//Volcano Bouquet"
        "Over-Anxious Student"

        1. Cdr Lytton   8 years ago

          Pretty close:

          http://www.myrepi.com/tag/myrepi-febreze

          I didn't see Febreze Men coming.

      2. Slammer   8 years ago

        +1 Cuttlefish

  36. esteve7   8 years ago

    Suthenboy made a good point above in the thread,

    when you have any leftist protest, listen to their speeches. They are angry, mean, ugly, bitter people. List to Ashley Judd's speech.

    then compare that to a right or libertarian gathering - life, liberty, freedom. Peacefulness.

    Just look at the pictures people use to describe the event. The Women's march had freaks dressed up as Vaginas, or people screaming, or whatever. Here it is groups of people..... smiling, upbeat, positive. Says a lot

    1. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

      Indeed it does. Leftists (especially leftist women) are miserable bastards. They go insane over anything they don't like, and do anything to grab attention. We all saw our Facebook feed after the election. Does anyone recall anything remotely like that from their right leaning friends when we got our first affirmative action president eight years ago?

      1. PapayaSF   8 years ago

        My Facebook feed still looks like that. Hence my vastly reduced time there. And eight years ago, even in the most extreme right-wing sources I saw at the time, there was not the level of apocalyptic rhetoric that I see now, not just on Facebook, but in "mainstream" news sources. This is because Trump is a challenge to the left like no other. He's shifted the Overton Window and contradicts the pseudo-religious leftist dogma that history moves only in their direction.

    2. Domestic Dissident   8 years ago

      Of course. Conservatives and real libertarians believe that most people and modern western society are basically decent, as long as we have the rule of law in place and some people willing to defend it. Yes, there are very real problems, but most of them aren't totally intractable if we're willing to work together to at least some extent.

      The socialist, leftist disciples of Marx, Alinsky, Cloward, and Piven believe that they alone are great and superior beings, and everyone outside of their group completely sucks ("deplorable", as it were). They believe they and they alone are fit to rule over all, and they will never be happy until they think they have finally achieved permanent dominance over society. They know this can't happen until they have torn down all existing societal structure from within and rebuilt it in their own image. And the best way to do is to divide people until we're all at each others' throats. That's why all their messaging is now based on rage, divisiveness, and hatred.

  37. sepinugeri   8 years ago

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    1. DarrenM   8 years ago

      Home abortions?

  38. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

    Jeez, and I though Agile Cyborg was hard to read and try to make sense of.

    1. The Fusionist   8 years ago

      I like this one: "How many babies have died ... for the pro-life political agenda?"

      That's the kind of daring, outside-the-box thinking that is usually associated with the weird guy sitting next to you on the bus and sharing his worldview with you.

  39. Fist of Etiquette   8 years ago

    Pictures only? Does that mean Ms. Slade couldn't get anyone from Reason TV to go with her? Or that Reason TV didn't want to have to edit together a bunch of cringeworthy quotes that embarrass the pro-life crowd like it has to do for the progressive get-togethers or Trump rallies?

  40. Mr Lizard   8 years ago

    I go to bed early and look what do you stooooopid mammals get into!!!!

    1. juris imprudent   8 years ago

      I figured Hihn to arrive much later than he did.

  41. Judge Smailzzz   8 years ago

    Always been a tricky issue, specifically the notion of when one acquires their rights and why. I am in favor of abortion rights, but I acknowledge it is a difficult issue and understand those opposed to it.

    I simply don't shed the same tears as I do from a first trimester fetus as I would for an infant.

    I just wish that those opposed to abortion would not have abortions, and perhaps persuade others of their position, but not use the law. It is similar to gay marriage and homosexuality on some levels...if you religion forbids it, don't be gay or get married, let others do as they wish.

    1. cavalier973   8 years ago

      It would be fine stance if abortion didn't involve murdering a human being.

  42. Stormy Dragon   8 years ago

    But what stood out more than the size were the demographic characteristics of the crowd: It was overwhelmingly young people.

    Because it was during the work week and they don't have jobs.

  43. Just Say'n   8 years ago

    The pro-choice side in the US is on the losing side of history. Not only does the US have the most liberal abortion laws in the world (Roe v. Wade allows for abortion up until quickening, regardless of state law), but due to ultrasound technology, a hundred years from now people will view Roe v. Wade as a relic of barbarism.

    Unless, of course, you believe that having the same abortion laws as China, North Korea, Cuba, and Vietnam (but not any other Western nation where abortion is usually restricted up to twelve weeks) makes you on the 'right side of history'.

    1. GILMORE?   8 years ago

      I disagree. I look forward to a future where longevity causes us to look at offspring as an undue nuisance and expense, and permits abortion up to college-age

    2. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

      Indeed. I've always believed that abortion will be viewed several generations from now, the same way people view slavery today. "How did anyone think that was a perfectly acceptable thing?"

  44. Akira   8 years ago

    Somewhat OT:

    Take a look at the feminist movement today, and you'll see women parading naked or in vagina costumes and wearing "pussy hats". Their grievances are typically imaginary; the worst thing they can ever think of is the possibility that they might have to pay for their own abortions. The whole spectacle makes women look like vulgar, juvenile whiners.

    The men's rights movement, on the other hand, would be ridiculed out of existence if they used these tactics (and they're already mercilessly mocked today for speaking out about the various legal mechanisms that explicitly favor women). How much of an uproar would we hear of men paraded around naked (at a non-gay parade) and wore penis costumes or penis glans hats? They would probably be put on the sex offender list.

  45. gacewifec   8 years ago

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  46. ahmed kamel   8 years ago

    egypt vs morocco ??? egypt vs morocco

  47. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

    Yep. This is the harvest from George Waffen Bush Executive Order #1 ordering subsidies, handouts and government jobs for faith based community fanatics. In the 1980s children were brainwashed into reporting their parents for victimless peaceful pursuits--as in Orwell's 1984.

  48. Azathoth!!   8 years ago

    Just had to corpse-hihn this thread.

    A fetus is not a person.

    Really?

    Two women, both two weeks pregnant. One wants to have a baby, the other doesn't and is going to get an abortion.

    One is considered a baby--a person, by everyone. The other is a 'clump of cells'

    Something terrible happens--both women are stabbed to death.

    Autopsy reveals their pregnancies.

    The murderer is charged with 4, not 3 or 2 murders.

    Because the default position of the government is that a fetus IS a person, with rights--including the right to life.

  49. Carol Moore   8 years ago

    I wonder how many of those girls are against contraception too? Are these young girls saving it for marriage to a man who can support their dozen kids? Few millenials will make enough money for even two kids, since they have to support the Baby Boomers. Those who want to have sex will have to use male and female contraception. (Someone tell those teenage virgins taking it in the butt still can get you pregnant.) A very sad and deluded group of young people.

    Thank heavens most libertarians want to keep the govt out of the issue and are defacto pro-choice. Check out LIBERTARIAN views at http://pro-choicelibertarians.net

  50. thrakkorzog   8 years ago

    You have posted a listed of the top 10 most fascist libertarians on this forum. Everybody is waiting with baited breath the next 15 fasicists lists you name.

  51. The Fusionist   8 years ago

    "BOTH extremes try to impose their own view by force of law. But we learned in high school about conflicting rights. ONLY the judiciary can resolve such conflicts -- remember checks and balances? But they are obliged to draw a border that BEST respects BOTH rights. US History 101."

    Yes, indeed, remember how the judiciary resolved the conflict between freedom and slavery in the Dred Scott decision in 1857?

  52. Suthenboy   8 years ago

    I want to know why I didn't make the list Mike.

  53. The Fusionist   8 years ago

    And who can forget Wickard v. Filburn and the way it resolved the conflicting claims for all time!

  54. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    Dear God, what is with Hihnny-the-pooh and his Ron Paul obsession? Almost every post he makes is some kind of attack on Paul.

  55. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

    Liberty has been evolving for hundreds of years, and will continue doing so.

    God-willing, despite your contempt for the Constitution, equal, unalienable and/or God-given rights

    Yes, because liberty (the consistent application of human rights) is evolving, but is also God-given. That certainly isn't a self-contradiction in any way, shape or form.

    You're a charlatan, Hihn, a performance artist with no substance. I regret unmuting the handful of your posts that intrigued me on this article because each and every one has been substance-free emoting. I would say that you're another progressive having a meltdown after the Trumpening, but you've been a superficial charlatan from the day you first posted here.

  56. Vaelyn   8 years ago

    Beg to differ... A right to Life and a right to Liberty CANNOT be "precisely equal" for the simple reason that if Liberty is taken away it can be restored later. The same is not true of Life.

  57. IceTrey   8 years ago

    You haven't established that a fetus has rights.

  58. (((Renegade)))   8 years ago

    GODDAMIT, I THOUGHT YOU ADDED ME!

  59. SQRLSY One   8 years ago

    I am DEEPLY shocked and offended that I did not make the top-ten-fascists list! Admittedly I am not a super-active poster, but still...

    Here, lemme make it up to y'all, and try and PROVE that I am a right-wing fascist, here is my favorite Biblical Wisdom again...

    God COMMANDS us to kill EVERYONE!

    Our that them thar VALUES of society outta come from that them thar HOLY BIBLE, and if ya read it right, it actually says that God wants us to KILL EVERYBODY!!! Follow me through now: No one is righteous, NONE (Romans 3:10). Therefore, ALL must have done at least one thing bad, since they'd be righteous, had they never done anything bad. Well, maybe they haven't actually DONE evil, maybe they THOUGHT something bad (Matt. 5:28, thoughts can be sins). In any case, they must've broken SOME commandment, in thinking or acting, or else they'd be righteous. James 2:10 tells us that if we've broken ANY commandment, we broke them ALL. Now we can't weasel out of this by saying that the New Testament has replaced the Old Testament, because Christ said that he's come to fulfill the old law, not to destroy it (Matt. 5:17). So we MUST conclude that all are guilty of everything.

  60. cavalier973   8 years ago

    Ron Paul is awesome, Hihn, and you are a loony.

  61. Juice   8 years ago

    Ron Paul does have his problems and blind spots. I'll give you that.

  62. MarkLastname   8 years ago

    Ahhh!! I'm on the list! Nice! So proud of myself.

    Enjoy some beats you old fucker you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsHld-iArOc

    TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!

  63. SQRLSY One   8 years ago

    And the Old Testament lists many capital offenses! There's working on Sunday. There's also making sacrifices to, or worshipping, the wrong God (Exodus 22:20, Deut. 17:2-5), or even showing contempt for the Lord's priests or judges (Deut. 17:12). All are guilty of everything, including the capital offenses. OK, so now we're finally there... God's Word COMMANDS us such that we've got to kill EVERYBODY!!!

    (I am still looking for that special exception clause for me & my friends & family? I am sure I will find it soon!)

  64. Vaelyn   8 years ago

    Old MacMichael Hihn had an Animal Farm

    EIEIO.

    And on that Animal Farm the rights of the mother to Liberty and the rights of the child to Life were exactly equal.

    EIEIO.

    But the rights of the mother

    Were more equal than the other...

    Here abort, there abort, everywhere abort-bort!

    Old MacMichael Hihn had an Animal Farm

    EIEIO!

  65. contrarian   8 years ago

    "What applies to the fetus applied to the woman and their rights are precisely equal."

    Did you even read his comment? If you predicate rights on being currently conscious or "brain-alive" then their rights, before it becomes conscious, are not "equal." Because the fetus has no rights. This is pure logic, the only potential point of debate is whether rights are predicated on current 'brain-life.'

  66. Deep Lurker   8 years ago

    No, it is relevant. After the fetus becomes brain-alive, the pro-choice side has to make the case that an abortion would be justifible homicide rather than murder, and before the fetus becomes brain-alive, the pro-life side has to make the case that an abortion would be murder despite it not even being a homicide.

  67. SQRLSY One   8 years ago

    And oh by the way, the above CLEARLY mandates unborn-baby-killing along with killing EVERYONE, so what's left to fight about? Abortion, schmubortion!!!!

  68. Vaelyn   8 years ago

    How can those rights be equal? If you take away Liberty, you can restore it later; whereas if you take away Life, not only is it impossible to restore it, you have taken away Liberty as well...along with all other rights the individual had.

  69. cavalier973   8 years ago

    Murdering children isn't a God-given right. Jesus was very clear on His view of child-abusers.

    Child-murder is a U.S. Gubmint-granted right.

  70. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    Does Hihnny-the-pooh actually think he's changing anyone's mind with his nonsensical ramblings?

  71. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

    I deny it AND call you out.

    *Tilts hat down, twirls six-shooter, holsters six-shooter, cracks knuckles*

    Your argument here is as follows: I am biased because I think grammatically reasonable, coherent signage is less insane than the opposite. This is based on the fact that you have no idea how the pro-life/pro-choice debate operates when it's not on TV or a family of strawmen duking it out in your thick-yet-rotting skull.

    You believe that women wearing full vagina outfits, demanding free (taxpayer-sponsored) birth control are legit. You think that because YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE UNALIENABLE RIGHTS IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT!!1!1 Namely, religion. If a person religiously believes that birth control is sinful, forcing them to be party to that sin is a huge act of aggression. Face it Hihn, you're a rights-aggressing fascist with no idea what our unalienable rights are.

    Also, Ron Paul is a million times better at being a libertarian than you are.

  72. DarrenM   8 years ago

    Just as the North fought to impose their values by force in the South in the Civil War.

  73. cavalier973   8 years ago

    Ron Paul is everything Hihn wishes he could be.

    So, envy.

  74. The Fusionist   8 years ago

    The guys next to me on the bus didn't use bolding and all-caps.

    But it's a similar vibe.

  75. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

    I was referring to the fact that the word aggression was involved.

    I was right for the wrong reasons, apparently.

  76. See Double You   8 years ago

    Because you recite a bunch of premises and go on to make an illogical conclusion therefrom?

  77. Password: pode$ta   8 years ago

    Despite the fact that you are delusional enough to have hijacked a physics-oriented comment to start talking about unalienable rights, I'm going to take a stab at this.

    A) Do we give the state the authority to attempt to prevent murder with force? Yes, because murder is aggression intended to take another's unalienable rights.

    B) Do pro-life people legitimately believe that a human life begins at conception? Yes, because (taking the non-religious argument) there isn't another non-arbitrary place to "draw the line" between a clump of cells and a human being.

    Given A and B, could one reasonably reach the conclusion that the state could have the legitimate authority to stop abortion? Yes, unless you don't understand very basic logic.

    Hihn, abortion can very legitimately be viewed as a trespass against the rights of an unborn human being. That's not to say there can't be disagreement about that in libertarian circles, and there is a ton. But it's usually an extremely nuanced debate, where both sides truly do understand the other. There is absolutely no reason to go 100% ape-shit about this. It's a libertarian stalemate, predicated entirely upon where you want to draw the line for the beginning of human life.

  78. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

    Ask Hihn to define "a right" in the most general terms. This is the way math and physics operate. Never yet have I met an econazi who knew the definition of energy or a birth-forcer who knew the definition of a right. My ethics teacher successfully convinced me that actual real individuals are what have rights, and that for any individual, a right is a moral claim to freedom of action. Got that? (See Moral Rights and Political Freedom)
    Hihn makes the same mistake as replying... um... three, eleven, nine? to "what is an odd number." He won't offer to write them all down, I'll wager.

  79. dan'o en barrel   8 years ago

    20 weeks is 50/50 chance of survival outside of the uterus thanks to advances in neonatal care. The water is far murkier than your assertions convey.

  80. dan'o en barrel   8 years ago

    Michael, you keep on with your "precisely equal" premise. I think Vaelyn decisively relegated the idea to the dumpster by aptly noting that liberty can be restored while life can not. The 2 can not be equal, regardless of what your high school health teacher claimed.

  81. Bra Ket   8 years ago

    It's a moral question flamey. Wait till they are adults and tell me how one's rights as an adult conjoined twin does or does not allow them to kill the other one at any time.

    And as a matter of fact I'm pretty much a nihilist who thinks that when principles clash in a debate like this there can be no resolution.

    However I find the abortion debate interesting as it's one of few arguments where people try to make principled arguments on both sides.

    I also find you to be kind of a dick. Were you bullied a lot as a child?

  82. The Fusionist   8 years ago

    That's not quite fair - the guy next to me on the bus were actually, in their own way, trying to persuade me to their point of view, albeit by way of long earnest monologues about Obvious Truths Which They Must Share With Me.

  83. Juice   8 years ago

    Why does the mother have rights then?

  84. Juice   8 years ago

    That this makes no sense to you explains so much.

  85. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

    Hihn, abortion can very legitimately be viewed as a trespass against the rights of an unborn human being.

    The problem is that Hihn does two things which make his arguments suck. 1) He says that life and liberty are co-equal rights, which they aren't. 2) He completely ignores that (sans rape) the woman tacity consented to her pregnancy whereas the baby didn't.

    Until and unless he addresses those two issues, he's nothing but a chattering noisebox.

  86. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    In fact, isn't that exactly the argument used against the death penalty? If after years/decades of being jailed and new evidence comes out showing the person is innocent, he can be released. If you execute someone and later find out he was innocent, you can't bring him back to life.

  87. BestUsedCarSales   8 years ago

    That's what manslaughter is.

  88. cavalier973   8 years ago

    So...did I make this list of yours?

  89. DarrenM   8 years ago

    Every woman has the unalienable right to choose to get pregnant and create a new life, then the unalienable right to terminate that life against it's will if her initial choice proves inconvenient. Right?

  90. DarrenM   8 years ago

    Everyone ultimately has a 0% chance to survive.

  91. DarrenM   8 years ago

    As technology advances "viability" is counted earlier and earlier in pregnancy. This does not really make sense that the cutoff point to be considered to have a right to life is dependent on external technologies.

  92. DarrenM   8 years ago

    She has the right to avoid putting herself in a position to get pregnant to begin with and waived that right. (Yes, there are exceptions in a minority of cases like rape and incest, so don't waste your time.)

  93. Lowen   8 years ago

    That's just it....no Amendment can tell you or any of us when a person is a person...

  94. DarrenM   8 years ago

    The denial of Life is the ultimate denial of Liberty.

  95. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    Calls people liars and goobers, yet he's the one being aggressed. Just curious, am I one of your "many stalkers?"

  96. Jay Kay   8 years ago

    Nonsense. Read a link before copy/pasting it.

    You're making the mistake of thinking that simply because they don't have them "on the books" it means they don't have them. If I go up to a woman and hit a woman in the stomach in those states that have blanks, wii I not be arrested and charged for something felony-related? Of course not, and I'd like to think you understand that.

  97. dan'o en barrel   8 years ago

    Sorry for the delay, shit to do.

    "You place tribal loyalty above elementary logic???"
    -Appears to be classic projection. Death and denial of agency are both really bad, but not equally so due to the permanence of death.

    "(snicker) It was my history teacher, Snippy One."
    -I regretted adding that bit about your health teacher as soon as I submitted it. Nobody likes a sassy, petty pedant

    "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
    -Relies on the supposition that the unborn aren't entitled to the same rights. That's the fulcrum of the entire debate, and which side of it a person falls on predicts their views on abortion with near infallibility.

    Personally, I'm in the undecided camp regarding abortion. Pragmatically speaking the overturning of Roe/Wade would certainly be a shitstorm. As a matter of morality I hear not but opinions built tenuously out of frail logic in the debate from both sides, made weaker by dishonest accusations of the opposition.

  98. Diane Merriam   8 years ago

    Mankind has known how to abort or induce miscarriages long before it was technically feasible to do it surgically or with modern day drugs. It was a lot riskier than it is now, but it was being done long before this nation was founded. Yet there weren't any laws against it. It was quite a while later that it became formally illegal.

  99. Vaelyn   8 years ago

    Merriam-Webster definition of unalienable/inalienable: "Incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred" Nothing about being "equal." Nothing in the Constitution about being "equal" either. In fact, Mr. Jefferson's Declaration lists some of those unalienable rights: Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness, in that order. It could easily be argued that order represents a hierarchical enumeration, with Life paramount. (Since the others are subsumed in it. As I noted above, if you take away Life you take all other rights as well.)

    Is the Pursuit of Happiness then equal as well? If my happiness requires you to surrender your life or property, are our rights then "precisely equal?"

  100. Diane Merriam   8 years ago

    The actual issue is what defines a human being that makes him different and worthy of legal protection? Is it genetics? Is it potential? Is it location? Is it size? Is it ... ?

    You can argue the question with or without religious reference, even though religious belief is what motivates most (but not all) of those opposed to abortion.

  101. Trigger Hippie   8 years ago

    Where it began, I can't begin to knowing
    But then I know it's growing strong
    Was in the spring
    Then spring became the summer
    Who'd have believed you'd come along
    Hands, touching hands
    Reaching oouuut, touching meeee, touching youuuuuu
    Sweet Michael Hihn(bah,bah,bah!!!)
    Good times never seemed so good
    I'd be inclined
    To believe they never would
    Oh no, no

  102. Pompey:? Class Mothersmucker   8 years ago

    Taunt taunt

  103. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    Alright, made the list! Wasn't sure I would, given I don't post a whole lot.

  104. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

    He supports that with the definition of unalienable

    Except that unalienable means that they cannot be encumbered or taken away, not that they can't be preempted by an even more basic right. That is, unless you think that my liberty to shoot my gun in any direction I please is somehow co-equal with your right not to be shot by me.

  105. Glide   8 years ago

    Hypothetical: Jim-Bob is a Reason commenter. He believes that the best way to pursue happiness is to enslave Michael Hihn in his diamond mine.

    Do you support his pursuit of happiness or would you prefer the government take away his unalienable rights, Michael?

  106. DarrenM   8 years ago

    You mean they don't take them out of context.

  107. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    You likely did. I'm surprised he has the room to let so many people live rent-free in his head.

  108. Trshmnstr, stuck in this can   8 years ago

    Self- contradiction?? Who said so?

    Me. How can Liberty be God-given and evolving? Either you're a relativist (liberty evolves) or you're an absolutist (liberty is God-given). Which is it?

    Is Liberty a moving target? No, of course not. Liberty is a static concept that can be applied to new situations, but new applications don't make Liberty into an evolving concept.

    Here's the childish name-calling:

    ANOTHER goober!

    you've just been exposed as another self-righteous bullshitter

    buh-bye, loser

    by a dipshit

    You're a hypocrite, a bully, and an absolute blessing to the pro-life movement. I love when you shit up the abortion threads because I know that the pro-choicers are embarrassed by you, the pro-lifers aren't scared of you, and the people who are undecided want nothing to do with you or your half-cocked opinions. Heck, the only reason I respond to you is because I want to make the next round of your insane "fascist" list.

    It's too bad you can't interact with the rest of us like a normal, well-adjusted adult. Perhaps you do have some good points to make. Perhaps you have an unique perspective to provide. Unfortunately, you're all bluster, aggression, non-sequitur, and incoherent rage. The pro-choice Don Quixote tilting at imaginary windmills once again. Hopefully this time nobody will notice that he forgot his horse at home.

  109. Bra Ket   8 years ago

    YOU assumed one MUST kill the other. There may be a conflict as infants, which I ridiculed. But if they make it adulthood ... there's OBVIOUSLY no conflict ... and I ridcule you again!!!

    If you think that destroys something about the argument then you probably missed the point. If neither twin is "viable" without the other, why does morality require each to share his organs to support the other when a pregnant woman does not have that requirement? Hell the fetus only needs temporary support, and this temporary need is usually a directly result of reckless behavior on the part of the mother. Or can the twin kill the other? You never said.

    I'm still bullied now. Self-righteous assholes slither out of the cracks everywhere.
    So my snippiness here is a response to your childish aggression, as a bellowing blowhard.
    Anything else?

    Did they call you "Mikey Hiney"?

  110. Procrastinatus   8 years ago

    Why do you respond to the Hihn? He's like the Michael Scott of Reason, and he has the time to post 50 responses to every one of yours.

  111. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    "It's based on your thuggery, not quantity"

    As always with leftists, the projection is strong with this one.

    "Why is the Paulista Cult so obsessed with being vicious"

    Paulista cult? I don't recall ever posting massive love for the man. I think you're confusing me with someone else, buddy.

  112. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    Is it wrong that I find Hihnny-the-pooh's ramblings absolutely hilarious? I feel like I should feel bad, laughing at the mentally ill.

  113. The Elite Elite   8 years ago

    Why do you keep bringing up Ron Paul? When did I ever say I agreed with him on anything? Does the fact that EVERYONE here makes fun of you get you to stop and reevaluate yourself in even the slightest way? Do you even stop and wonder why I've been calling you Hihnny-the-pooh? Or are you truely so delusional that the idea YOU could ever be wrong doesn't even register?

  114. Trigger Hippie   8 years ago

    So we both defend the preventable killing of millions of babies?

    Because, in case you forgot, I essentially agreed with your position up thread. In fact, you even commented on the subthread. I know at some point here you decided that pro-lifers are in fact the baby killers but I made the 'reluctant pro-choice' argument, as Apatheist put it. Largely based on the state needing to expand and overstep its constitutional limits to enforce the law.

    So unless you became a pro-life advocate during your weekend-long psychotic break, sure, one could argue that. Otherwise it's just the mad ravings of an extremely thin-skinned lunatic.

    Lighten up, Francis.

  115. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

    There are no laws against abortion in Canada today. More women than men immigrate there every year. What the GOP wants, judging by Sharia Law results, is in Ione, California. Next to a large prison that town is 70% male. How about a reason article on the prosecution of a physician that overturned all religious laws banning abortion in godless (but fun and attractive) Canada?

  116. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

    Jesus wrote this when? Where?

  117. SelecaoUSA   8 years ago

    BULLY!

  118. Texasmotiv   8 years ago

    Disagreeing with you is not aggression.

  119. Texasmotiv   8 years ago

    How did Ron Paul get into this?

  120. Texasmotiv   8 years ago

    You keep saying inalienable rights but you refuse to acknowledge that you liberty does not enable you to initiate force upon another person. You also didn't address the counterpoint to the parasite-host argument that the child has no agency in the matter and the adults are the ones with moral agency in creating the situation.

    Put shortly: Should you be able to kill an accidental tresspasser to because they have trespassed on you?

    It's not as simple as you make it seem because there are no other scenarios where you can chose to create another person so there needs to be special consideration.

    I don't find appealing to the SCOTUS as the correct answer as they are fallible humans and there are countless precedents that can be pointed out as flatly wrong.

  121. Texasmotiv   8 years ago

    I don't think he said that at all.

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