Prospects for Liberty in a Diversifying America: Reason Panel, Thurs 12/8

Nick Gillespie, Shikha Dalmia, Charles W. Cooke, and Avik Roy debate how to make a more-diverse United States a more-free United States.

|

Milton Bradley

If you live in the Washington, D.C. area, come to Reason's DC HQ on Thursday for a fast-paced, substantive discussion about race, multiculturalism, and libertarianism in the age of Trump.

Anti-immigration conservatives and liberals have long argued that as the United States brings in more foreigners, our common culture and values slip further and further away from the nation's founding ideals of limited government and self-sufficiency. Donald Trump supporters who cheered the candidate's plan to curtail immigration from Mexico and ban Muslims from entering the country often stressed the we're just importing "Democratic" voters who will expand welfare. Is any of that true? And what about the large numbers of native-born whites who, while perhaps shrinking as a percentage of the population nonetheless had the clout to elect (if barely) the most restrictionist (and protectionist) president since at least World War II?

Government debt continues to grow and spending as a percentage of the GDP has stayed at or near post-WWII highs. Trump's spending plan hardly reins in such largess even as his tax plan threatens to reduce revenues (and thus raise deficits) by massive amounts. What is the effect of such policies on libertarian visions for smaller, cheaper, and less-intrusive government? Will Trump end the federal war on pot even if he's ramping up the war on immigrants? Will more protectionist economic policy be offset by more wide-open energy or education plans? We're just a few weeks away from the start of President Trump's first term and only this much is certain: It is going to be a hell of a ride.

The event is free and open to the public. Here are the details:

Prospects for Liberty in a Diversifying America

Location: 1747 Connecticut Ave. NW, Washington D.C. 20009

  • December 8, 2016

Now that the election is over, libertarians and conservatives are wondering what the Trump administration will mean for those who favor limited government, free markets, and the rule of law.

Time.com

On Tuesday, December 8, you are cordially invited to a panel discussion moderated by Nick Gillespie featuring Reason's Shikha Dalmia, Avik Roy, Co-Founder of the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity; and journalist Charles Cooke of National Review.

"Prospects for Liberty in a Diversifying America"

Panel Discussion moderated by Nick Gillespie, Reason.com

Tuesday, December 8

Reason HQ, 1747 Connecticut Ave. NW

Doors open 6:00 p.m., Program 6:30 p.m.

RSVP to Jordan King at jordan.king@reason.org by Friday, December 4

Please join us for drinks, hors d'oeuvres, and conversation about the future of liberty in America.

Advertisement

NEXT: Careful with the props for your Bill of Rights quizzes

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. OT: Open carry walk in at OSU.

    http://nbc4i.com/2016/12/05/gr…..ck-at-osu/

    1. Think of all the Muslims this is frightening JB? How can they be free if they are not secure in the knowledge they can stab people for the jihad in peace?

      1. Man, you just can’t help yourself to bring up your hate of Muslims at every opportunity.

        1. The poor dears have it so hard. Why would anyone anywhere think anything worse of them? I mean its not like they are Christians or something.

          1. Yes, all Muslims are the same. Let’s make sweeping generalizations about a billion people.

            1. That is what you are doing. You just are generalizing that they are all wonderful.

    1. Is that a boy or woman? I can’t quite tell.

      1. “Take a good look at this woman…” Caption is small but readable.

        1. She is a bit boyish and not in a good way, NTTAWWT

      2. I am not bigoted like you

        1. How is that bigoted?

          1. Either Gilmore wants to bang boys, or you hate her because she’s some kind of racial mongrel.

            (This is entirely a joke and not a real comment on either of your personalities, in case that’s not obvious.)

            1. Yes, it’s a computer composite. The black (racist) text to the left of the face explains that.

              1. This response should be moved down to the appropriate place. I might consider donating if it meant some sweet error correction tools.

            2. Mongrels generally have higher fitness compared to inbred pure breeds.

          2. kidding yo. your preferences for explicit genders are quaint

      3. I don’t think it’s an actual person. Wasn’t that picture supposed to be some kind of composite or computer generated image of what a person might look like if all the races were mixed together?

        As a face designed by committee, it is a bit bland. But reasonably attractive assuming there is a fit and feminine body attached.

    2. The new face of America: transexual white hispanics

  2. Who will be the one defending the point that Trump won because of whitey? Just curious.

    1. Five bucks says Dalmia

    2. You know damned well who, by Shiva’s genitals!

      1. What is this, The League?

  3. Donald Trump supporters who cheered the candidate’s plan to curtail immigration from Mexico and ban Muslims from entering the country often stressed the we’re just importing “Democratic” voters who will expand welfare. Is any of that true?

    The Democratic Party seems to think it is true. And what country has ever become more Muslim and more free as a result?

    1. Islam is unique in that it is not only a religion, but a political ideology that feeds off of each other. This is a large reason for why (IMO) Middle Eastern countries are so politically backward and why countries with more Muslims tend to skew in a manner less in favor of liberty.

    2. UK? I’m quite sure Muslim immigration was one of the reasons Brexit won.

      Remember, unintended consequences are still consequences!

    3. we’re just importing “Democratic” voters who will expand welfare.

      Given that Latinos, and even moreso recent Latino immigrants, vote disproportionately Dem, it seems true. I would bet that the same is true for Muslims, as well, but some data would go a long way toward answering this question. Perhaps somebody on Reason’s staff could be arsed to do some actual research? How do those big Somali enclaves tend to vote, or the big Muslim community in Detroit?

      1. How do those big Somali enclaves tend to vote, or the big Muslim community in Detroit?

        It doesn’t make any sense. The Republican party has always been so accepting of Muslims and Africans.

        1. As well they should be. They deserve no plaudits for merely reciprocating the great kindness and tolerance shown by Muslims to other communities.

      2. They will get right on that after they look into how mass Muslim immigration in Europe is working out.

      3. Latinos vote GoP more than other minorities, don’t they? And isn’t it a matter of how long they’ve been in country – by third generation they are 50-50 or so?
        Which may be why Democrats want illegal migration to continue without pause, or they’ll lose one of their identity groups…

        1. Making Hispanic the new black is a losing cause. Hispanics and white intermarry too much for that to work. So, they have to keep importing more to keep up.

  4. Seems a little strange to post something on December 5th that requires an RSVP by December 4th.

    1. Maybe it is the staff’s way of telling the commentariat they are not invited.

    2. Are they using a 2015 calendar?

    3. Friday, December 4th, which is not a date this year.

  5. “On Tuesday, December 8…”

    Hmmm…….

    1. A date that will live infamy.

  6. When are you Beltway dweebs going to come to Minneapolix for cocktails and schmoozing?

    I’ll let KMW feel my muscles….

      1. It’s the best time. Many of the more belligerent natives are hibernating or forming cover bands.

        1. Pro Lib is from Florida. If he owned a sweater, he would put it on as soon as the temperature dipped below 78 degrees.

          1. Nah, the cold don’t confront me none.

        2. Do the cover bands there mostly fall into the Husker Du tribe or the Replacements tribe?

          1. Nobody covers Husker Du.

            Prince tributes are still the thing here.

            1. Nobody covers Husker Du.

              And thank God for that.

              1. John, I’ve never gone after you for any of your takes, but…

                what the fuck is wrong with you, man?

                1. Husker Du sucks.

              2. And thank God for that.

                Of all the terrible, stupid things you’ve said on this site, John, that is by far the worst.

            2. Nobody can cover Husker Du.

              Sacred and all that.

              1. I knew there were members of the Husker Du tribe on here. Sorry, I am part of the Replacements tribe.

                1. I have dual citizenship. ‘Mats are my all time favorite.

                  If you haven’t already, read this book.

                2. They both are pretty awful and terribly overrated. Not to mention they bore me to despondency. /post-punk collector

                  1. Come on, LH – are you never nostalgic for bands that were a huge part of your youth? Minneapolis in the ’80s was really amazing. Husker Du, Replacements, Suburbs, Suicide Commandos, Curtiss A, The Phones, The Wallets, 27 Various, Soul Asylum…

                    Besides, you gotta sell more than a few hundred records to be truly considered ‘overrated’.

            3. +1 “Anyway, here’s Wonderwall Purple Rain”

    1. I’d like to come up for a Vikings game some time.

      1. Wait until they rebuild the O line. Watching Bradford get killed for three hours is boring.

        1. OMG… That has to be the worst offensive line in the history of the NFL. If you’re not going to block, the least you can do is not go offsides.

          1. They are thinking of saving some money this week and just replacing the tackles with turnstiles.

            1. Yeah, that line is looser than Winston’s mom.

          2. Ask David Carr, the Texans O-line right after expansion is worse.

        2. And then there are the dropped passes:(

  7. I’d like to see Nick walk out and start with “You cracka motherfuckers…”

    1. The Jacket is a channel for Dolemite?

          1. so

            much

            polyester

              1. ooooooooo…… French!

        1. The 70s were a weird time for everybody – you think The Jacket was immune?

          1. I’m not really sold on the hat, but I think the rest of it works.

            1. Look, if wearing a gold choker with dangly tassels is wrong, i don’t wanna be right.

              1. He’s like a beautiful, golden ceiling fan…

            2. On a related note, do NOT do a Google image search for Rudy Ray Moore unless your employer has a liberal internet monitoring policy. Dude could not be photographed for a promotional image ‘less he had at least two pair of titties in his area.

              1. It was, like, the 70s, man.

                1. I look at his album covers and get a strong synaesthetic whiff of hash and fuckin’.

                2. Nothing says 70s like platform aquarium shoes with little live goldfish in them.

  8. Government debt continues to grow and spending as a percentage of the GDP has stayed at or near post-WWII highs. Trump’s spending plan hardly reins in such largess even as his tax plan threatens to reduce revenues (and thus raise deficits) by massive amounts. What is the effect of such policies on libertarian visions for smaller, cheaper, and less-intrusive government? Will Trump end the federal war on pot even if he’s ramping up the war on immigrants? Will more protectionist economic policy be offset by more wide-open energy or education plans? We’re just a few weeks away from the start of President Trump’s first term and only this much is certain: It is going to be a hell of a ride.

    It is notable how in that entire paragraph, gun rights are not mentioned. Gun rights are just as important as anything in that paragraph. Why don’t they warrant discussion?

    1. I’m going to be charitable (ha! get it?) and say that they probably don’t see gun rights being threatened under Trump’s administration, while those other things arguably may be more impacted by the policies he might choose to pass.

      Or fuck it, maybe it’s because they don’t have a gun nut on the editorial staff anymore.

      1. Bring back 2Chili!

      2. They see Trump as being potentially good on energy regulation. So, it isn’t that they are not willing to discuss things Trump is good on,

        If you are going to examine the future of liberty in a diverse nation, I think you need to examine gun rights. The tittle of the forum is the future of liberty not “how bad will Trump be”, though that would be part of the discussion.

        Gun rights are a lot more important than legal pot. And the contrast between Trump and Hillary on guns is a lot more stark than it is on pot. Yet of course pot gets discussed and not guns.

        1. So, what are you saying? What’s the secret agenda they are pushing by not mentioning guns?

          1. I am saying reason doesn’t put any kind of priority to gun rights. They are not actively hostile towards them, but guns are about as far down on the list of importance as you can go.

          2. I think what John is saying is Reason would much rather peddle Robby Horses than 2A stuff, hoping, “The Right People,” will take notice, instead of trying to expand the tent to some people who are simply too provincial, unsophisticated, and don’t know what’s best for them. Such as proper pronoun usage and being tightly attuned to the rankings of The SJW Totem Pole of Grievance, and knowing all the right tints and hues on The SJW Wheel of Colour, as opposed to learning boring econ, like balancing a checkbook, or ammortisation of student loan or mortage. And heaven forbid schools bring back stuff like Markmanship Class, like my own dad, Primus Maximus did.

            Imagine this one, Reason Staff, my father used to carry a retrofitted sniper rifle (his instructor was ret. Airborne) on THE BUS AND SUBWAY in NYC and Brooklyn to and from the range. With LIVE ammo, on his person.

            Try doing that today, and it’s even more of a travesty that inner city school kids, like how my dad grew up (Brooklyn – back when it was a shithole).

            1. To clarify, my dad was part of the Junior Marksmans Association, just like Moobs Schumer. My Dad was a bona fide champion marksman. Ironically, just like Moobs.

            2. Well, yeah, Reason picks their priorities in what to cover.

              Would I be interested in seeing more about guns? Absolutely. But the coverage they do do of gun policy is always quite good and I see no reason to bitch about it.
              I also see nothing wrong with trying to appeal to non-libertarians of various stripes. A lot of people seem to want Reason to preach to the choir and nothing else. They do seem to put most of their focus on getting to the cultural liberal side of things. We can argue about the utility of that, but I don’t see any reason to question their motives.

              1. Doesn’t the Doherty article saying gun rights are expendable give reason to question reason’s motives?

              2. A lot of people seem to want Reason to preach to the choir and nothing else.

                I just want to see Reason post more consistently libertarian stuff. I don’t care if it’s all SJW culture war crap, just argue the libertarian position and support your argument without hemming and hawing about how the SJWs “have good intentions but focus too much on government solutions.”

        2. Trump supports taking gun rights away from secret government lists of wrongthinkers, you fucking moron.

          1. Yes and that is a big problem and something I would hope Reason would be concerned about.

    2. Didn’t mention abortion either. Or domestic surveillance. Or any of about 100 other issues. FFS it’s a two-sentence copy advertising an event, not an academic paper.

      1. If this 90 minute discussion isn’t going to settle the entire libertarian position on Trump, what good is it?

    3. By informal observation of article count, gun rights are not a big deal at Reason. Compared to pot and open borders anyway.

      1. Well weed and Mexicans are part of the libertarian trifecta, after all.

    4. Because libertarianism is all about fondling guns and confederate flags ….

      Also the freedom to discriminate against minorities and gay couples. Got to make sure the important liberties are protected.

      1. Yes Hazel, you don’t give a shit about gun rights. We knew that.

        And it is nice to see you. Do we need to break out the search engine and bring up some greatest hits of you telling us how Trump couldn’t win? How is that working out for you? Please enlighten us knuckledraggers with your superior political knowledge. That sure as hell was one Hillary landslide wasn’t it?

      2. Also the freedom to discriminate against minorities and gay couples.

        Good to know you care about freedom of association as much as you care about gun rights.

      3. How much rape by Rapfugees of hosting Euros are you comfortable with Hazel? And yes, I want a concrete, marginal percentage.

        Also the freedom to discriminate against minorities and gay couples associate with any customer or situation that they see fit. FTFY.

        Tell me Hazel, should a prostitute be forced to service ANY paying customer, regardless of whether or not that sex worker wants to deal that client, regardless of reason? Furthermore, if a prostitute will do some things for one customer, but refuse for another, should she be sued into oblivion and thrown into jail?

        1. You know that Hazel can’t answer that question until you tell her the race and sexual identity of the client.

        2. That’s unfair, Groovus. It is known that there is an amount of rape that happens in a given society, so if some rapists just happen to be in there illegally, or under false pretenses, or by fiat of an asshole in power, it doesn’t mean those rapes wouldn’t happen anyway. So it’s unfair to keep bringing them up.
          And I mean, shit, why can’t you people just get laid?

        3. Are we really having a conversation in which Muslims and/or Mexicans are pre-emptively assumed to be rapists? Are we really doing this?

          1. I live Europe, Hazel. It’s happening, and it’s not being reported. I am talking about actual, demonstrable rapes. The kind that tear vaginal linings, and rectal and anal tearing. Disease is being spread (rapists tend not to use condoms). It’s happening, unless the rape kits my wife has performed over the past few years are figments of her imagination, and the UK and GER docs who quoted ‘unoffical’ government health policy in UK and GER are totally lying to me.

            And I didn’t say shit about Mexico, so you can stick the kibosh in that one, right fucking now.

            Answer the question:

            What level of rapes and sexual assaults can you live with? A concrete number, please.

          2. Logic employed, Hazel hardest hit.

      4. For fucks sake Hazel, we know that you touch yourself while you think of people being forced to associate at the end of a gun. You don’t need to lay it on so thick. You and Tony should get an apartment together.

  9. Where multiculturalism embraces freedom of speech and all the other negative rights, I’m for it.

    Where multiculturalism is simply a nicer way of saying identity politics, thoughtcrime, quotas, the progressive stack, intersectionalism, privilege, etc…, I’m not so keen on that.

    1. Exactly. Multiculturalism without safety nets and perverse incentives is great, but not when said migration only furthers a cause.

      1. Yes. All those Mexicans are just zombies being lured here by evil progressives.
        Not human beings who are like, pursuing happiness, and stuff.

        1. All those Mexicans are just zombies being lured here by evil progressives.
          Not human beings who are like, pursuing happiness, and stuff.

          You can’t seriously be this stupid, can you?

          On a related note, some of the saltiest, hammiest, and longest lasting tears from the election have been from the SJWtarians around here. Watching some of y’all show your true progressive colors has been quite enlightening.

          1. The ones who are “true progressives” are the ones getting all horny at the thought of the protectionist policies Trump is going to impose for the benefit of the UAW and the AFL-CIO.

      2. In many ways the Hapsburg empire was an attempt at a multi-cultural society. Of course, it ended with WWI, so . . . .

        1. Nice way to pre-Godwin the thread…

        2. It ended with vicious ethnic hatred and wars in the Balkans.

        3. Eh, no state that I’m aware of actually pursued the “multi-cultural” idea on purpose until 20th century.

          Hapsburg Empire was heavily centralized Austrian state (bar weird cases where genuinely separate kingdoms were ruled by a single emperor for a while). Their ‘multi-culti’ thing was an attempt to appease Hungarians by giving them some autonomy, but there was no question that Hungarians were being given special status due to their power in the Empire (and 1848 revolt, which failed but showed it), and other peoples of the Empire were told to fuck themselves when they asked for the same kind of autonomy.

          “leave subject people doing their thing as long as it doesn’t bother the ruling nation” is how Empires have been run since…Cyrus the Great? That’s not the same as multicultural state we have today.

        4. Well, there are a lot of ways you could do multicultural, so I don’t think that example tells us much.

          The US has done quite well as a multicultural society. I think the problems (of the sort we see now) start when people start seeing multiculturalism as the goal rather than a stage in the process of assimilating and integrating new people into a society.

          1. The issues we are having with multiculturalism are precisely because we are abandoning the principles that allow multiple cultures to coexist peacefully. Those principles that are mostly laid out in the Bill of Rights and do not include positive rights to anything.

          2. Multiculturalism, if words are to mean anything, was set up in opposition to the principle of assimilation.

            Take Wikipedia for what it’s worth, but

            Multiculturalism that promotes maintaining the distinctiveness of multiple cultures is often contrasted to other settlement policies such as social integration, cultural assimilation and racial segregation. Multiculturalism has been described as a “salad bowl” and “cultural mosaic”.[4]

            It doesn’t simply mean “there are more than one culture living in a given area,” though its supporters would love it to be so. That’s how you get nonsense like “England was always a nation of immigrants” and “Europe has historically been a multi-racial place”. It’s the motte-and-bailey tactic for slipping the ideology through.

            1. OK, in that case, multiculturalism as an ideal is stupid and artificial. That’s just not how people and cultures work.

    2. Honestly, I think, in the long run, the latter is what multiculturalism has to be to remain a thing. Multiculturalism is a dis-equilibrium condition. The natural order is for assimilation into a new, unified, culture. Maintaining two distinct cultures requires an expenditure of energy (e.g. identity politics, thoughtcrime, quotas, the progressive stack, intersectionalism, privilege, etc)

      1. Multiculturalism is inherently contradictory and illogical. It claims on the one hand that all cultures are of equal value but then on the other claims the right to make value judgements about how some cultures (in reality just one but in theory any culture) oppresses other culture. Those two tenants are completely incompatible.

        1. Those two tenants are completely incompatible.

          So you’re saying we just need better property managers?

          1. Yeah Lee. That is it. You are all over it.

            1. Lighten up Francis

              1. I am light. I didn’t mean for that to sound dickish. My apologies.

      2. Depends how generously you define a “unified culture.”

  10. Can someone answer a question for me. I’d like to get some perspectives. How well has “multi-culturalism” ever stood up on its own as a cultural phenomenon? From what I’ve seen, historically, it hasn’t. Either cultures blend and assimilate into one unified culture or it’s exploded into tribalism. Anyone know of any history contradicting that?

    1. History is racist.

    2. Either cultures blend and assimilate into one unified culture or it’s exploded into tribalism. Anyone know of any history contradicting that?

      There isn’t. And there won’t be. We are playing with fire with this.

      1. I had a prof who was insistent that the Ottoman Empire was an excellent example of multiculturalism and the United States should strive to be more like the Ottomans. She is a while leftist lady. I couldn’t take her seriously after she said that.

        1. Wow. You should have suggested that we make immigrant communities pay a special tax unless they marry someone from outside the community.

          1. While we’re at it, we could castrate and draft a few of them….

            1. Brilliant idea Bill. We would never have to worry about needing a draft.

          2. We should totally emulate their treatment of women as well.

            I learned back when I was an undergrad to smile and nod when I hear that kind of stupid shit. I failed a class the last time I called a leftist prof out on the carpet for his stupidity. He was talking about how Soviet atrocities had been overblown in Western history books and the US had a far worse human rights record then Stalin.

        2. I wonder how she’d react if I told her that my people’s enslavement under Ottomans lasted twice as long as American slavery, and was not resolved by Sultan raising Anatolian armies to smash the local potentates.

          Though, to give them some credit, it was well known that Sultan and central government were less bad than said local potentates, especially locals whose families converted to Islam. That’s why the greatest hero for Bosnian Muslims is a guy who raised a revolt against the Sultan and got the cream of Bosnian aristocracy killed in that revolt…

    3. You mean like Brazil? The most free place in the world? *chortle*

      1. Oh yeah I’ve heard that one before too.

        “There is no racism in Brazil!”

        Everyone is simultaneously color blind and respectful towards racial and religouis differences unlike the evil racist USA.

    4. Well, Trump proves that white people can be just as tribal as anyone else. Assimilation is a two way street. The dominant culture has to grow to embrace and absorb some of the minority culture. They can’t just demand that the minorities adopt the dominant culture wholesale. It’s still one culture, it’s just not the *same* – and that’s what the dominant white culture has resisted doing – mainstream white culture has never fully embraced blacks, or asians, or hispanics, even when blacks, asians, and hispanics speak perfect english, wear the same clothes, celebrate the same holidays and maybe even share the same religion.

      1. mainstream white culture has never fully embraced blacks, or asians, or hispanics, even when blacks, asians, and hispanics speak perfect english, wear the same clothes, celebrate the same holidays and maybe even share the same religion

        What is mainstream white culture? Does it involve sweaters?

        1. And IPAs.

          1. Count me out then.

        2. And mayo. And Mayosweaters.

          1. Wait, I’m back in.

        3. From where I sit, it seems to consist of a bunch of fatties who love flags and trucks and hamburgers and football.

          At least this is the image white America seems intent on projecting at the moment.

          1. He’s a fountain of misplaced rage. Name your cliche; Mother held him too much or not enough, last picked at kickball, late night sneaky uncle, whatever. Now he’s so angry that moments of levity actually cause him pain; give him headaches. Happiness, for that gentleman, hurts.

          2. It is a good think you don’t make stupid collective judgments or anything Hazel. Yeah, every white person is fat and waves the flag.

            You never were that bright, but the election seems to have made you completely retarded.

            1. If White America is interested in proving me wrong they have ample opportunity. Go ahead. Show me the real White America. Prove me wrong.

              1. You used to be stupid. Now you are just disgusting.

                1. Well it’s good to know that Jonathan Haidt was right about conservatives…

          3. Oh, so like how all young blacks are ghetto thugs like they portray themselves in hiphop culture.

          4. Damn it, if it wasn’t for flags and trucks I’d be in. *sigh*

            1. You’re a fattie?

            2. Look sparky, America is a fat guy running a food truck with a confederate flag painted on the side.

              1. Food truck? What kind of hipster, commie, faggot country do you think this is?

              2. Ironically, it’s a falafel truck, and it’s pretty good.

              3. It’s definitely not a food truck. It’s more of a McDonalds. A McDonalds inside a WalMart.

          5. From where I sit, it seems to consist of a bunch of fatties who love flags and trucks and hamburgers and football.

            Introducing Hazelmeade, the only non-bigoted person in the commentariat! She’ll be here all week…. until she makes some unfathomably stupid comments and disappears for a few weeks until the memory of her social justice derp begins to fade from memory.

            She’ll reappear at the first hint of an article upon which she can lament how everyone is racist but her.

            1. Some of us have lives and shit.

              And you’re obviously too dumb to get where I’m going with this.

      2. It’s still one culture, it’s just not the *same* – and that’s what the dominant white culture has resisted doing – mainstream white culture has never fully embraced blacks, or asians, or hispanics, even when blacks, asians, and hispanics speak perfect english, wear the same clothes, celebrate the same holidays and maybe even share the same religion.

        Yeah, virtually, none of our music reflects any black influence. And American whites are way too macho to adopt any Spanish influence in our English. And I’ve never heard of anything like a Chinese, Indian, or Thai restaurant. Maybe we could try turning the Japanese onto sushi.

        1. That is just cultural appropriation Bill. The evil white people don’t really mean it when they do those things.

          1. That’s kind of where you have to go to maintain HazelMeade’s argument. These are all examples of the free exchange of ideas and cultures does, in fact, change the dominant culture. And there are countless others (particularly if you are talking about cultures, rather than racial & ethnic groups).

            1. That is where you have to go. America is still an amazing melting pot. We incorporate foreign ideas better than anyone. It takes a special kind of stupid to believe that there is some set “white culture” in this country. Hazel is really no different than the doofuses in the Alt Right. Both Hazel and the Alt Right have the retarded idea that there is some kind of special white culture in this country. The only difference is Hazel wants the imaginary white culture destroyed and the Alt Right bozos want it made supreme, but they both share the belief same fallacy.

            2. Yeah totally, the reason blacks aren’t fully assimilated is TOTALLY THEIR FAULT. White people have nothing to do with it. We’re so accepting of them and they are big meanies who refuse to just get over that slavery thing and be one with us. Seriously!

              1. You;re right, Hazel. Perhaps the USA should have a total Reverse South Africa, like how now Afrikaaners are second class citizens in SA, except they are the minority.

                Are you willing to agree to such an arrangement first? Will that satisfy your bloodlust and hatred? Will that finally wipe the slate clean?

              2. Hazel,

                Maybe some people are not totally assimilated, whatever the fuck that means, because they don’t want to be? Where did you get the racist idea that everyone must be assimilated into the mainstream “white” culture?

                You really are no different than the alt right. You are just fucking nuts.

                1. All positive outcomes are to the credit of the superior [insert ethnicity] work ethic. All negative outcomes are the fault of white people (with the exception of Hazel who is woke as fuck).

                2. Where did you get the racist idea that everyone must be assimilated into the mainstream “white” culture?

                  I thought you were against multiculturalism. Isn’t that what started this thread?

              3. Yeah totally, the reason blacks aren’t fully assimilated is TOTALLY THEIR FAULT.

                Yes, to a great extent, it is, Hazel. And before you even *THINK* of carding me, may I remind you I emigrated from the USA – it is totally my responsibility to know the language(s), know cultural mores, and agree to live by their laws (which I did, in writing), for the privilege of living here. I had to adapt, and not every person here is a lilly white Slav, who look like Putin and Anja Chapman.

                So, yes, racism is a two-way street, and I consider a lack of integrating by new immigrants to their environs every bit as important as the dominant culture making a place for them. MORESO, actually.

                1. Anja Chapman

                  *googles*

                  *low whistle*

                  Russian intelligence services have always had a slight… bias in their recruitment efforts towards attractive officers. Same goes for dudes – many a female intelligence officer travelling abroad has encountered them, too.

                2. So basically everyone agrees that the reason blacks aren’t assimilated is totally their fault. White people have nothing to do with it. Nothing to see here, Move along.

        2. There’s a difference between eating sushi and embracing asians as equal members of a common culture.
          Do you really think that Asian Americans are fully assimilated? Do you really think that mainstream white culture is just like totally open to fully accepting Asians and it’s just that Asians are refusing to integrate?
          It’s all them, man, not us. Never us.

          Same thing for blacks, hispanics, etc. Dude, like we’re totally not racist at all, it’s just that THEY keep rejecting our love and acceptance!

          1. Do you really think that Asian Americans are fully assimilated?

            Some are. Some aren’t. There’s a constant influx of new people from Asian countries and those people aren’t. As to Hispanics, I’d wager some of the people you would be the quickest to write off as fat, ignorant, redneck, white. Americans would turn out to have Mexican ancestry.

          2. There’s a difference between eating sushi and embracing asians as equal members of a common culture.
            Do you really think that Asian Americans are fully assimilated? Do you really think that mainstream white culture is just like totally open to fully accepting Asians and it’s just that Asians are refusing to integrate?

            Asians are as a group so successful in this country that colleges have to discriminate against them lest our colleges get too Asian. What the fuck are you talkiugn about Hazel? If there is anyone who won’t accept Asians into American society, it is you and your fellow SJWs who insist on screwing them in the name of affirmative action.

            And last I looked the only two prominent Asian politicians in this country were Bobby Jindal and Nikky Haley who are both Republican. All those evil white people in South Carolina and Louisiana hate Asians so much, they made one their governor.

            Did you get a lobotomy or something or have you always been this stupid and no one noticed it?

            1. Asians are as a group so successful in this country that colleges have to discriminate against them lest our colleges get too Asian.

              And last I looked the only two prominent Asian politicians in this country….

              Yeah, they are so successful and integrated that there are only two prominent Asian politicians.

              1. And they are both Republicans. Looks to me like you need to talk to your liberal friends about why they hate Asians so much.

          3. Do you really think that Asian Americans are fully assimilated?

            I don’t even know what that means.

            1. Neither do I. What is this “white culture” Hazel keeps talking about? Some kind of borg? I don’t think I want to be assimilated.

              1. Maybe it involves chinos?

              2. Hey are you trying to deny that white folks living south of New Orleans are the same and have the same culture as white folks living in rural Maine who are the same as white folks living in Montana who are the same as white residents of Georgia who are the same as whites in Connecticut?

                1. I actually think that there are some groups of white people who are also marginalized and excluded from that culture (and I don’t mean gays, or transgenders). I’m sure there are white people who watch Hollywood movies and see the sort of people that the media portrays as middle-class normalcy, and they see that’s not them. There’s actually a fuck-ton of people who feel that way, not just blacks, and Hispanics, and asians. But if you can understand that perspective – the perspective of a non-mainstream white person, you can understand how it must feel to be a minority. There are many people who are united by the fact that “mainstream white culture” as it appears on television doesn’t represent them. it would be a beautiful thing if “mainstream white culture” (as seen on TV) would just die so that some other culture that included everyone could flourish. And it would include white folks living south of New Orleans and white folks living in rural Maine, and black people, and Hispanics.

                  My point is not that there is a unified white culture, but that the culture we think of as “normal” and “mainstream” American culture is very white-dominated and exclusionary.

                  And when I talk about it as if this is what white America represents, I’m challenging you to prove me wrong. I want all those non-mainstream Americans to come out of the woodwork to challenge the dominance of “mainstream white culture”. Especially the non-mainstream white people.

              3. What is this “white culture” Hazel keeps talking about?

                The water that you swim in. Ask a black, a Hispanic or an Asian what “white culture” is.
                The answer might surprise you. You might see yourself in different eyes.

                1. The water that you swim in. Ask a black, a Hispanic or an Asian what “white culture” is.
                  The answer might surprise you. You might see yourself in different eyes.

                  Fuck you Hazel. Seriously, take your racist bullshit elsewhere. I served in the active duty Army for nine years. I know blacks and Hispanics who are wildly conservative. You are just a fucking smug bigot who thinks blacks are beneath you and need your protection from the evil whites.

                  You are the most immoral disgusting and stupid person on here.

                  1. Yeah, I’m so bigoted that I’m the only person suggesting that maybe white people have some work to do. that maybe white people bear some responsibility for racial divisions in America.
                    Wow.

          4. Do you really think that Asian Americans are fully assimilated?

            Judging by how well they do in American society, yeah. I’ll give credit where credit is due. Asians do well here and that is THEIR OWN doing, not white people doing it for them.

            I’m fairly sure that if they were by and large an unsuccessful group in the United States, you wouldn’t give them credit, you’d blame white people for it. Because your intellectual insights are shallow and pathetic.

            1. I credit the Pacific and/or Atlantic Oceans for the success of Asian immigrants relative to other groups.

              1. You credit the Atlantic Ocean for the relative success of Asian immigrants? I… have you looked at a map?

          5. Do you really think that Asian Americans are fully assimilated?

            This reminds me of my favorite Onion infographic…. “Most Popular Baby Names

            It should help clarify that the proper answer to that question is…. “uh, Duh?”

            Also = ‘Asian’ is really not the proper nomenclature dude. Who are you talking about? Indians in New Jersey? Or Chinese in Chinatown? Or Japanese people in Seattle?

            Its both true and false depending on who you’re referring to. In general though, they’ll assimilated better than any other minority by a long-shot.

      3. White America has wholeheartedly embraced Taco Bell.

      4. Well, Trump proves that white people can be just as tribal as anyone else.

        Trump got fewer white votes and more black and Hispanic votes than Romney. Go peddle your white supremacists fantasies somewhere else.

      5. mainstream white culture has never fully embraced blacks, or asians, or hispanics, even when blacks, asians, and hispanics speak perfect english, wear the same clothes, celebrate the same holidays and maybe even share the same religion.

        Yeah, no black or Hispanic or Asian ever made it in Hollywood or the music industry or ever became a cultural force in this country.

        You should have stayed away. This is embarrassing.

      6. mainstream white culture has never fully embraced blacks, or asians, or hispanics, even when blacks, asians, and hispanics speak perfect english, wear the same clothes, celebrate the same holidays and maybe even share the same religion.

        It takes about 15 seconds to think of examples of people who fit into every single category you listed that are accepted in “mainstream” culture.

        I’m sorry that you see scary bigots around every corner, but I do appreciate your continuing source of SJWtarian salty ham tears.

      7. Well, Trump proves that white people can be just as tribal as anyone else.

        While getting less of the white vote than that SUPERDUPER tribalist Mitt Romney.

        They can’t just demand that the minorities adopt the dominant culture wholesale. It’s still one culture, it’s just not the *same* – and that’s what the dominant white culture has resisted doing – mainstream white culture has never fully embraced blacks, or asians, or hispanics, even when blacks, asians, and hispanics speak perfect english, wear the same clothes, celebrate the same holidays and maybe even share the same religion.

        So they can’t demand that minorities adopt the dominant culture, but whites are duty bound to adopt everyone else’s culture?

        1. Which minorities are asking you that adopt their culture?

      8. Cultural appropriation is as anathema to multi-culti as assimilation.

  11. How do we cut spending? Because in less you find a way to shrink government, liberty will continue to erode.

    1. That is true. But we can cut a lot of spending and still have enough money left to continue to erode liberty.

      1. Will scotch tape do? It’s all I can afford.

        1. Well, at least use electrical tape.

  12. The woman in the picture just looks like a white lady to me…

    And I thought white women were now persona non grata due to voting for Trump….

    1. maybe she is one of those cagey white Hispanics like George Zimmerman.

  13. I’ll give Nick this, he’s one of the most optimistic people I’ve ever met. Nick doesn’t know where we’re going, but he knows it’s going to be good. So Millenial’s support Bernie, but they’re secretly libertarians. Just a reality check. Mexico was a socialist country for a long time, India was nearly destroyed by Gandhi’s socialism/government control mentality, China put up with communism and extreme communism under Mao and when they get here they are going to push us in a libertarian direction. I hope you’re right Nick.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.