Rand Paul

Interview with Rand Paul: 'I Can't Support Anybody to Be Our Secretary of State Who Didn't Learn the Lesson of Iraq'

For the libertarian-leaning senator, just about anybody would be better than John Bolton or Rudy Giuliani.

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Paul
Gage Skidmore/ZUMA Press/Newscom

Sen. Rand Paul implored President-Elect Donald Trump not to pick Rudy Giuliani or John Bolton to run the State Department and suggested he would be inclined to vote against their confirmation.

In an interview with Reason, Paul described Bolton and Giuliani as representatives of "the most bellicose interventionist wing of any party" and the antithesis of the restrained foreign policy platform Trump ran on. The selection of either man would be a serious betrayal of Trump's supporters, who wanted a clean break from the rabid interventionism of the past GOP administration.

"I can't support anybody to be our secretary of state who didn't learn the lesson of the Iraq War," said Paul.

After dropping out of the GOP presidential race, Paul focused on his own re-election to the Senate, and didn't offer Trump much in the way of vociferous support. But like many other libertarians, Paul found something to admire in Trump's stated opposition to neoconservatism.

"I don't think anybody believed that he was going to be libertarian on foreign policy, but there was at least a glimmer of hope that he would be less of an interventionist than Clinton," said Paul. "The things he says unscripted on the campaign trail were much less hawkish than Hillary Clinton."

That was a fair assumption, given Hillary Clinton's extreme hawkishness. Sen. Clinton was a key supporter of the Iraq War. And though she later regretted that vote, Secretary of Clinton repeated the error—and then some—when she pushed the Obama administration to intervene in Libya. The U.S.-backed ousters of Saddam Hussein and Moammar Gadhafi have destabilized the entire Middle East and contributed to the rise of ISIS.

But Trump's leading secretary of state candidates—Bolton, especially—have embraced all of Clinton's worst foreign policy blunders and would push the federal government to do even more. Indeed, Bolton has made public his support for taking the country to war with Iran.

Paul described Bolton as "unhinged."

"It concerns me that Trump would put someone in charge who is unhinged as far as believing in absolute and total intervention," he said.

Bolton would have almost no chance of getting Paul's support, unless the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations repudiated virtually everything he stands for. Giuliani would face a similarly uphill battle to persuade Paul, he said.

As Reason's Brian Doherty noted, Paul could make trouble for an unacceptable secretary of state pick. Paul sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which is currently split 10-9. If he voted with the Democrats, he could certainly send a message—though this would not prevent the full Senate from voting to confirm, according to The Washington Post.

When asked to name a suitable alternative, Paul pointed to Sen. Bob Corker—who is also on Trump's short list—as a better choice.

"I would say, while not being libertarian, [Corker] is more of a reasonable, realist kind of person," said Paul. "I think he would be less likely to say tomorrow we need to drop bombs on Iran."

In any case, it's unsettling that Trump was so immediately tempted to choose unrepentant hawks to run his State Department—especially considering that he owes the neoconservative wing of the Republican Party very little. Most neoconservatives abandoned Trump and supported Clinton, Paul noted.

"[Bolton and Giuliani] don't represent even the mainstream of foreign policy," said Paul.

It's too soon to say whether Trump will betray his non-interventionist supporters. But the possibility of a Bolton or Giuliani running the State Department is truly frightening, and libertarians should be grateful that Paul was willing to speak up in defense of principle. We can only hope it makes a difference.

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148 responses to “Interview with Rand Paul: 'I Can't Support Anybody to Be Our Secretary of State Who Didn't Learn the Lesson of Iraq'

  1. Damn, Robby, don’t illustrate your article with your own tweet! Shit!

    1. Like wearing the band t-shirt at their show, right?

      1. It’s like when Pirate Truther leaves a comment whose supporting link goes to his blog.

          1. Avast, ye scurvy dawgs!!!

            Else I will pirate my own tweets, w/o proper authorization to access my own IP…

            FIELD DAY FOR IP LAWYERS!!!!

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    2. Robbo loves to social signal. I bet he had a wine glass in one hand and a plate of fruit sushi in the other. Performance woke.

      1. If his hands were full then how was he typing into the Twitter?

        On second thought, i don’t actually want to know.

        1. He has an Iphone of course with voice to text app.

        2. They actually have plates that have cutouts to hold wine glasses so you can hold the plate and glass with one hand and eat (or whatevs) with the other. You need to get to better parties, Citzy.

          1. Look, i am not a classy man.

            1. Hey now, lower class is still class.

            2. Not that a plate with a wine glass cutout screams ‘classy’. Classy is what we call ‘tables’.

    3. @reason associate editor. @thedailybeast columnist. 2016 @forbes 30 Under 30 list. Very objective, no-nonsense, just-the-facts kind of guy/writer man.

      Dunning-Kruger made manifest in flesh.

      1. Dat hurr tho

    4. @reason associate editor. @thedailybeast columnist. 2016 @forbes 30 Under 30 list. Very objective, no-nonsense, just-the-facts kind of guy/writer man.

      Dunning-Kruger made manifest in flesh.

      1. How much does Robby pay the squirrels?

        1. He appears to be cuddling one in that picture.

        2. Any strands that happen to leave The Hair are immediately given to them. You know how much they love soft stuff. You know how much they love shiny stuff. Combine the two, and it’s like Gimli’s gift from Galadriel.

      2. The squirrels will not abide you holding that hair up to ridicule. Its like the satin sheets of nesting material.

        1. I think you’re on to something here.

    5. You old farts don’t understand that the twittersphere is the space where the future of truth will exist. Or the truth of the future maybe. Tag your hashes and twit out your feels, dudes!

      1. #awesomecommentdude

        #truedat

  2. Speaking of unhinged, I hope this is true. I also hope somebody recorded it:
    …after Hillary realized she had lost, she went into a rage. Secret Service officers told at least one source that she began yelling, screaming obscenities, and pounding furniture. She picked up objects and threw them at attendants and staff. She was in an uncontrollable rage. Her aides could not allow her to come out in public. It would take her hours to calm down.

    https://spectator.org/where-was-hillary/

    1. Too good to be true. Way too good.

      I prefer to think she was just low-class when she sent Podesta to tell her supporters to clear out, there’ll be no thank-you from Herself.

      1. The only other place I’ve seen it links back to the spectator as their source.

        So… can’t confirm or deny veracity of the claim. All I can say is it fits with existing profiles of her private persona, but that does not mean it happened.

      2. I would prefer to think of it like the Hitler in the bunker scene.. minus the pistol and cyanide capsule, of course.

          1. Where did Hitlary’s dog Blondi go?

      3. Her lack of control is part of low-class.

        At this point, her flaws completely outweigh any positive traits she may have.

        I love these stories because they confirm our collective human hunches were right. We can be like animals that way and with Hillary it was so FUCKEN EASY to spot.

    2. While it’s fun to speculate on what happened in the basement of the arena (or wherever it was) during election night, it’s clear that she was incapable of even speaking to the crowd. Which in the spectacle of modern politics is extremely unusual.

      VIPs started trickling out while everyone just stood around dumbfounded. It also shows you what a lousy politician she was. Not only did she not have a concession speech prepared, she couldn’t even wing one.

      1. She was probably to enraged to address the crowd and Huma and that giant they keep handy to load her into vans hustled her back to home base.

        1. Of course she was enraged. Losing was THEIR fault!!

          1. historical context: Hillary was moving her supporting armies around on the map. Her staff knew that these armies were shells of their former glory.

      2. She couldn’t even wing answers at the debates. She was reading verbaitum from her notes.

        1. My opponent is a liar and cannot be trusted.

          1. I was struck by how unprepared the South Park creaters were for a Trump victory. They really shit the bed with the story lines and let a little too much Hillovery shine through. They had a golden opportunity to have Turd Sandwich go after the troll hunters to keep hidden her obvious corruption, but instead she chooses to play white knight and destroy Giant Douche who just soundly defeated her? How is that even funny…

            I kept thinking through the whole episode that it would have made more sense if Hillary had won, as if they had the whole show ready to go and then instead of rewriting the whole episode they just changed a few parts. AND they thought Trump was such a joke he didn’t warrant his own character, but now how are they going to pull off 4 to 8 years of him as Mr. Garrison? They can’t, and why would they want to when Trump himself is so much more ridiculous.

            1. First comment that I have seen about this and I totally agree.

              SP had the election with Obama and McCain as a pretty funny who wins- wins.

              I personally think that Trey and Matt have are barely educated Libertarians. Mainly for the legalized drugs, me thinks. They include some jabs at progtards but South Park has gone downhill.

        2. From questions that were pre-fed to her by CNN.

      3. Forget concession speech. Give her the benefit of the doubt, that she thought there were ways to pull this off, but people needed to be cleared out because they were past rental time or someshit.

        She still should have come up, given the same non-speech Podesta gave and thanked her supporters. Maybe tell them “you didn’t fail, don’t blame yourself” or somesuch.

        1. My initial thought when I’d heard it was Podesta clearing the crowd was that she was having another nap as it was too late at night for her physical condition.

        2. True, they had NAB starting a few hours later. You don’t want to mess with Adobe nerds.

        3. Whatever the issue was, you don’t send your campaign manager out. She could have come out and even said there were ways to pull this off. The fact that she was completely absent that night tells you something unusual was going on. I mean, aside from a reality-TV-star-winning-the-white-house unusual.

          1. Yup. Its like that NY Hillary wobbly legs medical incident. It will be years before we know the truth. Then she walks out of Chelsea’s apt a few hours later like nothing is wrong. Weird.

        4. Class would have dictated she do a basic ‘I’m just too distraught. Please forgive me. Thank you for all your support. I love you all and you’ll be hearing from me soon. Good night.’

          But hey. That would have been the human thing to do.

    3. I suppose that Hitler pounding the furniture meme is inappropriate here?

    4. Trump doesn’t have the TEMPERAMENT TO BE PRESIDENT. BUT I FUCKING DO. ME! NOT THAT FUCKEN ASSHOLE ME!

      /throws candlestick at wall.

    5. She was running around screaming “Moe, Larry Cheese!” until they knocked her down and stuffed a hunk of Limberger down her maw.

        1. You left off the trigger warning. That’s NSFM (not safe for millennials)

    6. Goddamn, such a glorious moment lost to time, like tears in the rain…

    7. That would be completely consistent with my claim that Hillary is an extreme case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Narcissistic-Aggressive subtype: it’s narcissistic rage when the entitled narcissist doesn’t get her way.

    8. Speaking of unhinged, I hope this is true. I also hope somebody recorded it:
      …after Hillary realized she had lost, she went into a rage. Secret Service officers told at least one source that she began yelling, screaming obscenities, and pounding furniture. She picked up objects and threw them at attendants and staff. She was in an uncontrollable rage. Her aides could not allow her to come out in public. It would take her hours to calm down.

      Bwahahahahaha!

      I could watch that all day, all night.

      Just imagining her spittle flecked rage at losing *again*, and this time to Donald Trump, was giving me chubbies all through the election season. Yes, Hillary, you won’t get to rule.

      The American Voter has a message for you. You’re fired.

      Bwahahahahaha!

    9. She was munching… um… chewing the rug.

    10. The election was rigged. The media elite deep-sixed Rand Paul. Imagine if it had been Rand Paul against Hillary. It wouldn’t have been close.

  3. OT: Top men working hard to screw up the simplist of things.

    http://nbc4i.com/2016/11/15/pl…..k-in-ohio/

  4. Whoa, mad props to @robbysoave for #StandingWithRand

  5. When asked to name a suitable alternative, Paul pointed to Sen. Bob Corker?who is also on Trump’s short list?as a better choice.

    Holy shit, when asked obvious question, Paul had a prepared answer he could expand upon? Why didn’t he reveal his magical secrets to GJ?!

    Seriously, I’m glad Paul has the balls to stand up to his party if it comes to this.

      1. Somebody who takes half a sommelier’s job.

      2. “Well, when you say “name” one, do you mean if I had my choice, or…?”

        *Weld breaks in to save Gary*
        WELD: “I would definitely say Chuck Schumer. I would also have conversations with Karl Rove, Lindsey Graham, and Hitler.”

  6. I’m glad to see Reason has found the wise Rand Paul again. Too bad he didn’t get much traction in the nominating process. At one point I remember several contributors on Reason throwing shade at him.

    1. Can’t they just have something pure.. Just once?

    2. throwing shade

      [holds up yellow card]

      1. Face it, Rand was not bae for a lot of the primary season.

        1. He sucked in the debates.

          Half that was not getting any time, but he didn’t get time largely because he didn’t do do enough ‘press-generating publicity-stunts’ which would justify the sort of follow-up questions from the media.

          His game was not on fleek.

          1. The strongest part of his message – non-interventionism, was not a concern for voters at the time.

          2. 2020 still looks good depending on how bad the party of Stupid acts the next 4 years.

            1. If we want to dream, Trump decides to go for term 2 and onboards him as a VP to balance out his blustering macho cheap-Berlusconi persona? If he’s elected, great, he’s shoo-in for 2024. If not, probably won’t get blame and will get some valuable nation-wide exposure.

            2. Expect it to be bad. Very bad. At least they’ll have a skeptical media, so there’s that.

          3. Rand vs. Trump, mano y mano, who is more apt to bumble, fumble, and stumble? Who is more mellifluous in their delivery? Who has a better command of more topics?

            1. Mellifluous? I mean, I had to guess I think Rand smells better, but, um, not sure how that matters?

              1. mellifluous means “honey tongue”. It refers to speech not smell.

            2. Paul lets comments get to him, takes them personally, and reacts badly. Trump just comes up with a polite “eff u” and moves on.

              If Paul had Trump’s demeanor, he might make it, selling small government at least. Think of Reagan ‘If it weren’t for your parents fighting WWII, you might be heil-ing someone else, in a different language’, or words to that effect.

          4. “press generating publicity stunts”

            That would be attention given by the mainstream media which was completely in the tank for Hillary. The elite wanted Hillary. That is why the Donald got all the free press up to the point when he was the nominee.

      2. I’m woke motherfuckers. *drops mic

    3. They mostly bitched about his attempts at triangulating closer to the centre of the party. Attempts which lost him libertarians without gaining much support from the others.

      Mind you, I don’t think he could have done much better regardless of the approach he took. The GOP just isn’t ready.

    1. See, it’s this kind of unsubstantiated shit we can’t let on Facebook. Hopefully new algorithms will fix that.

      “Was that photo a setup” indeed. First, it’s sexist to even ask. Second, What Difference At This etc.

    2. Queen meets courtier on stroll.

    3. Whaaa? No way. A Demo staffer with her baby just happened to take a walk in the woods where Hillary was unwinding. Hillary who has zero history of anything like walking in the woods to relax?

      1. Hillary who has trouble walking, period.

        The number of campaign events where she needed to lean on staffers for any stroll of extended lengths led me to question why she would deliberately go out into the woods where there was a lot of things to trip over, no haldrails, and a convenient campaign photographer.

      2. That’s what entered my mind when I saw this last week. No friggin way a person like Hillary goes in the woods to reflect.

        Boiler rooms with other villains to scheme and scam are more her thing.

      3. If she unexpectedly ran into a Demo staffer while walking in the woods after losing the election, there would be no photos. Just (another?) shallow grave in the woods of Chappaqua.

      1. Nothing has been talked about until I talk about it.

        [imperious sniff]

    4. Has Hillary ever told the truth about anything ever?

    5. STEVE SMITH NOT INVESTIGATE, TOO SCARED OF HILLARY CLINTON.

      1. And that was in the woods… Steve Smith’s home turf.

        1. With the 1 in 4 statistic, I thought STEVE SMITH migrated and adapted to college campuses. Like city racoons, but with slightly less garbage bin tipping.

          1. NOT TIP GARBAGE BIN. LEAVE UPRIGHT AS “TINY HOME”.

      1. Holy fucking shit, never heard of that before. That was truly some evil Kafkaesque shit.

  7. I can’t support Rand Paul as long as he keeps wearing crew neck undershirts w/ his open collar button-down.

    smdh

    1. This is almost the worst of fashion snobbery.

      1. No. V neck undershirts were made for a reason, and it wasn’t so hipsters had somewhere to hang their ray bans. This is not snobbery. This is a plea for sanity in a world gone mad.

        1. People in “civilized countries” wear what in the US is known as “wife beaters”.

    2. ^Agent of Hihn

    3. Err…V-Cut undershirt, with a tuft of chest hair and a hint of gold chain peeking out from under the shirt collar? Correct?

      1. that’s when you’re doing a coke-deal. normally when only the top button is undone, you’re keeping the chest hair at bay, but not exposing the “I’m just an intern” undershirt.

        1. normally when only the top button is undone, you’re keeping the chest hair at bay

          Look at Mr. Normal Amount of Chest Hair Privilege over here!

    4. Wife beaters are useless as an undergarment. And they send the wrong message for a politician. (That message being “I’m an ethnic”.)

  8. Rand is right. As usual.

  9. Is it just me, or is Paul throwing around the libertarian label a lot more than he used to?

    1. The Republican label is just for getting elected. We gotta work from within maybe. Or not. I dunno. Whatever.

  10. #NeverBolton!

    1. I love all you commentariat.

  11. RE: Interview with Rand Paul: ‘I Can’t Support Anybody to Be Our Secretary of State Who Didn’t Learn the Lesson of Iraq’

    Oh no!
    Someone with common sense.
    Burn the witch!
    Burn the witch!
    Burn him!

  12. “It concerns me that Trump would put someone in charge who is unhinged as far as believing in absolute and total intervention,” he [Rand] said.

    I kind of expected El Trumpo to appoint people that suit his personality better. That is: unhinged.

    But as long as he builds the wall, or fence (whatever) to protect people from Mexican butt-sex and Chinese goods, he can appoint HillRod herself to be Secretary of State again for all I care!

    Wall! Wall! Wall! Let’s make America Grating Again!

    1. Here lies Open Borders. RIP. It, like communism, is good on paper but not reality.

      1. He’s very upset that his relatives will be expected to enter through legal channels. Not. Okay.

  13. Lots of liberals have been crowing about Trump’s meeting with Obama, suggesting that after spending an hour and a half with the anointed one he changed his tune on Obamacare and immigration.

    Well, are they going to own this one too? After just one meeting with Obama, Trump is ready to nominate a Clintonesque interventionist hawk for Sec State…

    Or are you guys back to being pacifists now that his holiness is going to be stepping down?

  14. “Grandpa, tell us again how you outed James O’Keife at a political rally.”

    Grandpa Robby sets down his plate of fruit sushi. “Well it was back in ’16. So there I was at the Hilary rally, taking a break from the hard hitting journalism of the campus beat, just enjoying the company of my fellow travelers at the rally. I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time…”

    1. *slow clap

  15. I have a feeling we’re going to hear a lot in the next four years in regards to Trump’s and Rand’s policy disagreements. I hope so at least.

    1. Ideally, I think we Earthlings don’t want Rand Paul to have much reason to disagree with Trump’s foreign policy.

      1. Agreed; my statement is more in regards to civil liberties issues. I have a bad feeling Trump is going to be absolutely awful about civil liberties and domestic spying.

      2. Agreed, but allow me to clarify. When I said, “I hope so at least” I was more referring to civil liberties issues and domestic spying rather than solely military interventionism. I have a bad feeling Trump is going to be historically awful in those regards.

  16. Rand Paul = 100% correct. Would’ve been nice to see a President Paul this year. Alas.

    OTOH, John Bolton for UN Ambassador was funny as hell. Wouldn’t mind seeing round 2 of that.

  17. The lesson wasn’t lost on me. Republican gets elected, the Wehrmacht is sent with Waffen to teach those non-Christian semitic sand people a lesson. Next election they get booted. Election after that candidate’s brother hands over Florida after Econazi vote is five times the gap. The Wehrmacht is sent with Waffen to teach those non-Christian semitic sand people another lesson. But, AHA! Mystical self sacrifice topples buildings in NY just before election, brother re-elected, and the Wehrmacht is sent with Waffen to teach those non-Christian semitic sand people yet another lesson AND sign Executive Orders intiltrating the US government tits with faith-based ku-klux Positive Christianity Taliban parasites and blam! Herbert Hoover crash!
    Is this a lesson or a broken record?

    1. Lithium ain’t just a component of your cell phone’s battery, Hank.

    2. Good comment, Agile.

  18. “The U.S.-backed ousters of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi have destabilized the entire Middle East and contributed to the rise of ISIS.”

    Obviously I agree about Gaddafi. But could someone help me with the Iraq thing? I get the idea that we shouldn’t have gone in there in the first place. Good people can actually disagree on that with hindsight. But at the time of Obama’s election, Iraq was a MUCH more stable place. ISIS started in Syria. You know, the country next door to Iraq that we DIDN’T invade? So perhaps us LEAVING Iraq helped to destabilize the region and helped ISIS.

    1. We also provided weapons to Syrian “moderates”, which IIRC did end up in ISIS’s hands.

      The other source of weaponry for ISIS was the almost-French level of running away the Iraqi army did in the early days of the ISIS invasion.

      Problem is if 8+ years isn’t enough to put an army in place it’s not clear 16 years would do the trick.

      And if we have to expend blood and treasury to maintain the stability of the country, that’s a much worse deal (for us) than just letting the local strongman do it by being a sadistic monster.

    2. The countries of the Middle East were created after WWI by mainly British and French governments. The problem that you have when other create your country for you is that ethnically, politically and religiously you can have huge differences. Add in that life is fairly cheap in most regions outside Europe and North America. You get a crap load of people that hate each other and have beefs from hundreds or thousands of years previous.

      Saddam kept the region stable enough. That is evidenced by his collapse creating a power vacuum in the area. Saddam was a tyrant for sure but he kept Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia in relative peace. What you are seeing is powers fighting for control of the Middle East. In the case of ISIS, they want a Muslim caliphate that would encompass all Muslim countries. They would then move to war with the west. This is how religious wars of annihilation happen.

  19. A DEFENSE OF JOHN BOLTON

    I am a shallow man. John Bolton elicits admiration from me because I love his mustache. And also he pisses off a lot of people.

    I like Rand Paul, and would have voted for him if he had got the nomination. But the crab in me has always been bothered by the fact that his daddy was a congressman. I am a shallow and a jealous man.

    So while I grudgingly admire and support Rand Paul, I will not relinquish my respect and admiration for John Bolton, despite my most vehement disagreement with him on some foreign policy matters, because he is the last man in American politics who has resisted the oppression of daily shaving.

    I can already hear the bleating accusations of “hipster!” from the Very Serious Thinkers and Grown-ups who sit in the peanut gallery precisely one row closer to the circus than I do.

    Fuck that shit. Daily shaving is a pain in the ass, and a waste of time, unless?and only unless?your job requires wearing an airtight mask of some sort. When did we as a society decide that men have to shave their entire face every single day? Why does being a ‘respectable man’ require looking like an overgrown infant? Styling one’s facial hair is not only an outlet for creativity, but it precipitates deeper introspection into a man’s overall appearance, such as facial structure, hair color, clothes, height, etc.

    So, in closing: JOHN BOLTON FOR SECRETARY OF STATE.

    1. Your logic is unassailable.

    2. Dude, I shave once every couple of weeks…with an electric clipper thing. It’s awesome. It works sick to razor shave every day, that’s why I don’t.

      1. Ugh, would suck not works sick

  20. I think it was Milton Friedman who said: “When commerce crosses borders, soldiers won’t.”
    Trump may figure he needs a Sec. of State to fit his trade policy

  21. So I had exactly one week of relief from the prospect of Hilary’s endless wars and a tiny sliver of hope that Trump would not turn out to be a total asshole. Time to return to my natural state. Consumed by pessimism and despair.

    1. One bit of hope. The Senate is split 49-51, and Democrats are going to be party line against pretty much anything Trump does. So 2 Republicans flipping is all it takes to stop a bill. And getting cloture is going to be a real pain in the ass.

      1. Even better, Congress won’t but up with a lot of b.s. from Trump’s cabinet of awfuls and political has-beens.

        This is playing out pretty much as expected: Trump won’t have much of a power base in Washington, which means he can’t get too much done. Clinton, in contrast, would have wielded enormous power, meaning she could have put her awful ideas into practice much more easily.

  22. Is Rand Paul going to stay a member of the Trump Party?

  23. The lesson was about finishing the job. And letting Generals run the war rather than Senators. And we had 110K troops on one side of Iran and 160K on the other and retreated. There’s a lesson there somewhere as well.

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