Donald Trump

Why People Vote for Trump

Some are drawn to the appeal of what he says, not the substance.

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Gage Skidmore / Foter

Participating in a democratic society is a thankless duty that seldom repays the effort. If you do research so you can select the better candidate in a race, your choice may be futile because your candidate loses.

Even if your candidate wins, those campaign promises may be discarded. Or other officials may keep them from being fulfilled. 

The process is an exercise in frustration. Voting often feels like pressing a button that is connected to nothing. There is no reward for you for making a smart decision and no penalty for a stupid one. 

Contrast that with participating in a modern market economy. If you decide one car out of hundreds suits your needs, you can buy it without convincing others. If you've made a good choice, you may enjoy years of trouble-free driving. If you've made a bad one, you're out the money. The consequences fall on you—no one else.

Your buying choices are numerous, precise and effectual. In those ways, they are very different from your voting choices. 

In the marketplace, we have an incentive to make informed decisions because we shoulder the cost and reap the benefits or drawbacks. In the voting booth, we get nothing good or bad for our individual decisions—because one vote almost never decides an election. Whatever results we have to live with are the same as they would have been if we hadn't bothered to vote. 

If it doesn't pay to be informed, you might as well be ignorant. That reality accounts for much of the appeal of Donald Trump, whose campaign is built on absurd fantasies and false claims. He succeeds because his prescriptions are vivid enough to be appealing but vague enough to resist examination—not that voters examine them anyway. 

His response to the mass shooting in Orlando was true to form. He tweeted, "When will we get tough, smart and vigilant?" and "Our leadership is weak and ineffective." Those sentences convey sentiments that are hard to refute because they have no real content. 

Trump spouts a torrent of promises and boasts with nothing to back them up. "I will be so good at the military your head will spin," he said, and "I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created," and "I refuse to be politically correct." 

Even when he's reading prepared speeches, they consist of clouds of verbal smoke. In an address Monday, he proclaimed, "If we don't get tough and if we don't get smart, and fast, we're not going to have our country anymore. There will be nothing, absolutely nothing, left." 

What exactly does he mean "get tough" and "get smart"? What would it mean to not have our country anymore? When "absolutely nothing" is left, won't something remain? 

Trump's followers can fill these empty phrases with whatever meaning they choose. But the substance of what he wants, or what they want, is not at the core of his appeal. 

Voting for Trump is less a calculated effort to bring about specific policy outcomes than a form of self-expression. Like rooting for an NFL team, wearing a certain type of footwear or listening to a particular genre of music, it's a way of satisfying your tastes while shaping your image. If you dislike Muslims or Hispanics or the news media, voting for him is an irresistible chance to indulge that feeling. 

It's also akin to buying a lottery ticket. If you're unhappy with how the country is doing, you can figure that electing a well-qualified politician won't produce radical change. And you can figure that by electing someone who breaks all the rules of politics and offends officeholders who have been a disappointment, you may get something dramatically different and better. 

Those lottery commercials that picture giddy winners living the high life? They're enough to get people to buy tickets, even knowing the odds are long. Those Trump promises, such as forcing Mexico to pay for a wall and making America great again? They're enough to win votes, even though his supporters know they may not come true.

Trump's supporters are the sort of people the French sociologist Gustave Le Bon had in mind when he wrote, "Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim." If he wins, though, we will all learn that the hopes he created were false, and we will all be his victims.

© Copyright 2016 by Creators Syndicate Inc. 

NEXT: In Defense of Self-Defense

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  1. Trump’s supporters are the sort of people the French sociologist Gustave Le Bon had in mind when he wrote, “Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.”

    Says the projecting dipshit who voted for Obama.

    1. I think there is enough delusional stupid in this world for that quote to apply to both Obama and Trump supporters.

      1. I’d say it’s a pretty good description of 98% of politicians.

        1. True, but Trump tanks the blank canvas to a whole new level. At least most other politicians attempt to masquerade as being for or against those items they think their audience wants to hear. Trump just takes every possible position and lets his audience hear what they want to hear, and gloss over what they don’t want to hear. What’s genuinely amazing is that he does not even pretend to hide what he is doing. It’s surreal, like watching a person use a jedi mind trick, and you wonder, did he really just say that, and that person really just fell for it.

    2. We got a Trumptard here.

      1. All you got is name calling? You’re quite the intellectual!

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    4. And Obama’s campaign pledges were so specific – Hope and Change. That’s it, vague = electable.

  2. “it’s a way of satisfying your tastes while shaping your image. If you dislike Muslims or Hispanics or the news media, voting for him is an irresistible chance to indulge that feeling.”

    Fuck off, you smarmy cunt.

    If I vote for Trump, the one and only reason will be to avoid having that self-serving hag criminal become our next president.

    1. Nice rationalisation, racist, bigoted, protectionist, nationalist whore.

      1. Ahaha, go fuck yourself, slave.

        1. I’ll fuck a neo-confederate pathetic whore like you first.

          1. Doubtful.

    2. Yes, another Libertarian here, most likely voting for Trump. I can’t live another four or eight years under the liberal jackboot. The Obama administration has been far worse than I originally expected. I cannot fathom any more of the left’s fascism.

      No one has to remind of Trump’s promises to wield power, I just know what the liberals have done and where we’re headed.

  3. Nonsense. The appeal of Trump is his promise of starting up new witch hunts. Against immigrants, muslims, blacks, women, etc doesn’t really matter. This is what excites his followers and it’s exactly the same dynamic as Hitler. If the appeal is just ‘self expression’ and ‘breaking the rules’ then Trump will give his followers all that and more in the coming weeks. Yet he will drop in the polls, and this has already started. Why? Because people are starting to realize that he really is Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini wrapped in one. It’s all fun and games until millions of bodies are lying in piles.

    1. Welcome to Retardation: A Celebration. Now, hopefully, I’m gonna dispel a few myths, a few rumors. First off, the retarded don’t rule the night. They don’t rule it. Nobody does. And they don’t run in packs. And while they may not be as strong as apes, don’t lock eyes with ’em, don’t do it. Puts ’em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows. You might be screaming “No, no, no” and all they hear is “Who wants cake?” Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.

      1. I had to look that up because I didn’t get the reference but love the quote.

    2. But if he is Hitler, do we at least get to wear cool looking uniforms?

      1. I think Hugo Boss is still in business.

    3. Nonsense. The appeal of Hillary is her promise of starting up new witch hunts. Against Christians, men, white people, gun-owners, etc doesn’t really matter. This is what excites her followers and it’s exactly the same dynamic as Hitler. If the appeal is just ‘self expression’ and ‘breaking the rules’ then Hillary will give her followers all that and more in the coming weeks. Yet she will drop in the polls, and this has already started. Why? Because people are starting to realize that she really is Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini wrapped in one. It’s all fun and games until millions of bodies are lying in piles.

      Hey, this is easy when no actual thought or facts are required!

      1. Hey, this is easy when no actual thought or facts are required!

        That’s the appeal of Godwinning. It’s easy, it’s fun, and best of all you can be ‘tard and still live a kick ass life…

      2. Yes, we’ve had eight years of this, and Hillary could be eight more. Oh, and Bernie = Hillary on ‘roids.

    4. The appeal of Trump is his promise of starting up new witch hunts. Against immigrants, muslims, blacks, women, etc doesn’t really matter.

      Except that he’s not against all these groups. He’s against illegal immigrants and he’s for a better way of vetting immigrants. And why is he against women? Because he doesn’t spit out the same feminist shit like Hillary?

      Trump’s history and background is nothing like Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini. Hillary and Obama are more fascist than Trump but leftists like you always lie and project.

    5. Hitler, Stalin AND Mussolini all wrapped IN ONE? Holy shit! That’s REALLY SCARY!

      How did he even get this far in life without murdering people? You need to let everyone know about this, because he could win! I mean, even if he doesn’t win he’ll just find a way to seize power, right? AND THEN WHAT?!?!?!

      I mean, someone is going to have to to shoot him. If he’s really Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini all wrapped in one, then we CLEARLY have a MORAL OBLIGATION to put a stop to him at all costs!!!!!

      Where do I sign up for the armed insurgency against Trump? Surely you must be organizing one as we speak, right? Because we cannot allow Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini wrapped in one to even walk the earth, let alone achieve the presidency!

  4. If, historically, voting doesn’t affect anything then anot ahistorical (is that a word?) candidate that allows you to tell the system to go screw itself is very appealing. If life will suck either way at least a vote for Trump let’s someone give the top men the finger first.

    It’s far more base and vulgar than this article, and many others, try to make it. They try to ascribe either idiocy or racism to the motivations when the reality is “You mean I might finally get to see the system that has screwed me my whole life get wrecked? Sign me up!” is all the motivation regular people need after decades of statism as the only outcome from decades of promises of freedom.

    1. >

      Nice rationalisation Trumptard.

      This would be totally ok, if the system was only bad. But the thing is that the system is not only bad, there is a lot of good and promising things in the system.

      Even if the system had done bad things to you, it is not a very moral to use that system to harm other innocent people who just want to get a better life and/or a job in the US.

      1. We’re talking about guesses regarding the motivations of large numbers of disaffected people.

        The theme that appears to be running through the electorate this year is “Screw you establishment”, whoever they see as the ‘establishment’.

        the rest of your post appears to be a non sequiteur.

        1. “The theme that appears to be running through the electorate this year is “Screw you establishment”, whoever they see as the ‘establishment’.”

          So what?

          1. You really do have a reading comprehension problem then.

            1. I think that you have really poor expression skills. Nevertheless, at least to me, it’s clear that you are a conservatard idiot pretending to be a libertarian.

              1. The problem here is you confuse analysis for rationalization. He was explaining what he believes are the motivations of some Trump supporters not endorsing them or justifying them. A good bowel movement would get rid of that bug in your ass.

              2. R_Hak – Are you having trouble grasping the point? It’s perfectly valid to point out that this post is simply making guesses about the motivations of millions of Americans. Trump supporters could have a wide range of reasons from “racism” to just “fuck the establishment”.

                As rudehost said, analysis =/= rationalization. You’re the one making assumptions and an ass out of yourself with words like “conservatard.” *rolls eyes*

      2. “there is a lot of good and promising things in the system”

        Citation needed

        1. The system protects atheists like me from religious fundamentalist who want to install a theocracy and impose their dogma on me.

          1. It protects you from ISIS?

            1. Virtue signaling can have deadly consequences.

            2. ^^^^^^^^what Trigger Warning said. I honestly canNOT believe how Christians keep getting thrown under the bus lately, save for extreme prog derp being the reason.

          2. So does this mean you’re against Muslims since their goal is to install theocracies in the countries they migrate to?

            1. No. I just hate Christian theocracy.

              1. Dipshits gonna dipshit.

    2. That’s pretty much why I’m voting for him, yeah.

  5. If it doesn’t pay to be informed, you might as well be ignorant. That reality accounts for much of the appeal of Donald Trump

    What a smug, self righteous, preening scumbag.

    Yes, indeed, Suderman, anyone who disagrees with you *must* just be ignorant. And stupid. And evil. They probably live in “dysfunctional, downscale communities that deserve to die”. Probably smell bad too.

    He succeeds because his prescriptions are vivid enough to be appealing but vague enough to resist examination

    Part of Trump’s prescription for this problem couldn’t be clearer, and he’s made the point many a time, and you’ve shit yourself over it many a time, but now you pretend that he never said it.

    What a loathsome lying sack of shit you are.

    When I’m elected I will suspend immigration from areas of the world where there’s a proven history of terrorism against the United States, Europe or our allies until we fully understand how to end these threats.

    What part of that do you find puzzling? He goes on and on about it. It’s perfectly clear. Yet here you are, lying through your teeth about it. This is why people *despise* you.

    For those who want to see the truth, a full transcript is at the link.
    Read Donald Trump’s Speech on the Orlando Shooting

    1. What part of that do you find puzzling?

      The idea that this will solve any problems and not create more of them.

    2. Check the byline: Chapman, not Suderman.

      1. My mistake.

        So Chapman is another self righteous elitist boob. It’s hard to keep up with them all around here.

  6. In democracy it’s your vote in elections that counts; In FEUDALISM it’s your count that votes;
    http://m.timesofindia.com/indi…..543509.cms

    1. In FEUDALISM it’s your count that votes

      Only in a few places (Poland, HRE, England) Most fuedal monarchies didn’t have anything with binding votes.

      1. I though they were an anarcho-syndicalist commune. That take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting.

        At least that is what the historical films I saw said.

        1. If we saw the same one, you’d know the commune didn’t really fare well when faced with monarchist forces.

          1. I thought Patsy and his King just got frustrated and left.

            1. Then clearly we watched different ones. (I perfer the version that ran in my head.)

              1. The king did try to repress the plebes exposing the violence inherent in the system… Then the king got frustrated and left.

        2. BLOODY PEASANT!

  7. The only reason Trump has dropped in pols is that his entertainment value has gone down. He just needs to change up the act a little

    1. I saw an interesting set of data about the polls that show him slipping – they have an increased skew towards polling registered democrats relative to the national proportion. The difference is usually the same as the number of points the poll shows Trump to be behind. On the only one where they adjusted the weighting, they’d adjusted down the weight given to republican respondants.

      I find this highly questionable on top of the fact that I don’t trust polls to begin with.

      1. You know who else’s didn’t trust the polls?…

        1. Rookie strippers?

        2. Fat strippers?

        3. The Czechs?

        4. Mitt Romney?

      2. Hey, they need to start creating some “momentum” for Hillary!

      3. Oh joy, it’s the Unskewed Polls nonsense from 2012 again.

  8. Trump’s supporters are the sort of people the French sociologist Gustave Le Bon had in mind when he wrote, “Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.”

    *Totally* unlike Hillary’s supporters.

  9. You know all the stupid crap that’s been filling your social media for the past couple days? An ISIS-loving Muslim man murders 49 people at a gay club, and it’s the fault of …Republicans, white people, gun makers, the NRA, anyone but who really did it. People are sick of that crap, sick to death of it, and Trump claims he’ll put a stop to it. You have to be truly soaked in beltway establishmentarianism, or college campus SJW-ism, not to see that. People are coming out with their pitchforks, and Trump is waving their flag.

    1. This of course has alot to do with Trump’s popularity. People are sick of being lied to about these things and then told they’re bigots when they don’t believe the lies.

      1. That is the only appeal I can see for him. He does give certain people their comeuppance for crying wolf at a bunch of ornery Bassett Hounds.

    2. People with mental problems go on shooting sprees all the time. James Holmes thought he was a bat-man villian. This guy thought he was an ISIS member. I’m unconvinced that his religion caused him to become a mass murderer any more than Adam Lanza’s religion caused him to be a mass murderer.
      Crazy people will seize upon whatever “cause” is the easiest to adhere to.

      I agree that Islam seems to be more prone to violence. But the kind of organized violence of ISIS is really a different problem than the random crazy shooter problem. We’re not really dealing with secret ISIS sleeper agents here. We’re dealing with mentally ill people getting their hands on guns. Which there really is no viable solution to. It’s another case people people blowing a statistically small problem up into a major issue. Just like terrorism.

      1. Bullshit. Lanza’s religion doesn’t tell him to murder people. Lanza was not part of a worldwide movement with the support of tens of millions of co-religionists.

  10. Didn’t read much of the article. Figured it was just a long-winded explanation of rational ignorance mixed with team play.

  11. Chapman. No thanks.

    1. Another neo-confederate Lew Rockwellite shilling for Trump

  12. You know who else had a campaign is built on absurd fantasies and false claims?

    1. New Coke?

      1. Comment of the week finalist.

    2. John McAfee?

  13. Why give a panhandler a dollar on the street? Because it makes you feel good about yourself. If you had to explain why you gave the dollar you could come up with all sorts of bigger explanations as to how you’re attempting to help your fellow man, demonstrate good behaviour, create a better society, blah blah blah, but you did it for a small sense of self-satisfaction. Same with voting – claim all you want that you voted for the better guy and why but your vote meant nothing in the greater picture, like giving a dollar to a panhandler. It makes you feel good about yourself to vote for the “right” guy and unfortunately, for many people, voting for the “right” guy means voting for the winner. It allows them some sort of self-satisfaction to know they helped elect that guy. If you really don’t like the top candidate, you vote for the person most likely to defeat the top candidate. Not voting or voting for a third-party candidate gives you no chance of feeling the self-satisfaction of knowing you voted for a winner in case your second-place guy does pull off the win. All those people who voted for Romney wasted their votes just as surely as if they had voted for Johnson or hadn’t voted at all, but what if Romney had won? Then they would have been winners! Voting for Johnson or not voting meant they had no chance of feeling that sense of self-satisfaction knowing you voted for the “right” guy, the one everybody else thought was a winner.

    1. “”””‘Why give a panhandler a dollar””””

      So the cops can arrest you and fine you and keep the dollar?

        1. $3 in Canadian money

    2. Why give a panhandler a dollar on the street?

      So he’ll tell me where I can buy weed.

    3. This is one of the best descriptions of voting I’ve ever read. Bravo!

    4. I vote that this is a good description.

      +1 warm fuzzy in my tummy

  14. “I will be so good at the military your head will spin,” he said, and “I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created,” and “I refuse to be politically correct.”

    “If we don’t get tough and if we don’t get smart, and fast, we’re not going to have our country anymore. There will be nothing, absolutely nothing, left.”

    Chance, the gardener, has a 50-50 chance of being the next President. May god have mercy on us all.

    1. I’ll take that over the hag that wants to take as many of my rights away as possible.
      Hillary wants to gut the 2A, wants to all but end private property rights, has been on record (in practice!) of gutting the 4A by being in the loop on extrajudicial assassinations, has avoided all required oversight by keeping an illegal server and has put us in more danger than trump ever could by destabilizing an entire region with her little overthrow/killing of Quadaffi and her gun-running scheme in Syria.

      1. “Hillary wants to gut the 2A,”

        So does Trump, now, evidently

        ” wants to all but end private property rights,”

        See Trump’s views when it comes to eminent domain.

        “has been on record (in practice!) of gutting the 4A by being in the loop on extrajudicial assassinations,”

        What is Trump’s position on drone-striking Americans? Has he even thought about it?

        We do know that he wants to order the military to commit war crimes. Can’t say how much better or worse than that would be when it comes to extrajudicial assassinations via drone strikes.

        “has avoided all required oversight by keeping an illegal server”

        Say, has Trump released his tax returns yet? What *is* his actual net worth, anyway? Why isn’t Trump more forthcoming about his past?

        “and has put us in more danger than trump ever could by destabilizing an entire region with her little overthrow/killing of Quadaffi and her gun-running scheme in Syria.”

        Trump has said he wants to “bomb the shit out of ISIS”. How is this different in principle than what NATO did vis a vis Libya?

        1. Say, has Trump released his tax returns yet?

          Last I heard, he was being audited. You don’t release tax documents in the middle of a tax audit. That makes this question a canard. Also, his taxes are an order of magnitude less important than classified data that can get intelligenece assets killed.

          1. “Last I heard, he was being audited. You don’t release tax documents in the middle of a tax audit. ”

            Why not? There’s no legal penalty for doing so.

            And I see you ignored the rest of my comments and focused on just this one. Why not address the rest?

            1. Trump should release his tax returns when Elizabeth Warren releases her 23andme results.

            2. And I see you ignored the rest of my comments and focused on just this one. Why not address the rest?

              Because I don’t give a rat’s ass, really.

        2. Trump says…
          Trump proposed…
          Trump wants to…

          Meanwhile Hillary literally conspired to commit extrajudicial assassinations. Meanwhile she actively participated in an assassination plot and te destabilization of Libya and oversaw the gun-running plan that has turned Syria into Armageddon.

          Also, never knew a private citizen was required to release tax returns for required federal oversight.

          And ISIS has declared war on us. I don’t recall Libya ever doing so.

          Face it, as bad as Trump is, Hillary Clinton is orders of magnitude worse when it comes to being a decent, rights-recognizing human being.

          1. From my point of view, the only reason Hillary seems worse than Trump right now is that she has had, over the course of her life, greater access to the levers of power. Hillary has had the opportunity to do some terrible things. Trump hasn’t, but has shown the same inclinations to do much the same terrible things should he obtain power. That is the problem.

            “Meanwhile Hillary literally conspired to commit extrajudicial assassinations.” That is true. And I see nothing in Trump’s background that suggests he wouldn’t have made the exact same decisions that Hillary made had he had the opportunity to do so.

            1. I’m sorry, but I’d prefer to have someone as president that “might” do something bad as opposed to the one I know has been involved in assassinaction plots, gun-running to terrorist organizations, has worked within government to,take my rights away and that has deliberately skirted oversight by breaking several laws.

              I won’t vote for either, but I can honestly say if it comes down to those two, I will definitely be hoping Trump wins.

            2. Read Trump’s positions on the 2A and on potential SC justices. Now read (or imagine) Hillary’s, and tell me you think those things don’t matter or weigh in Hillary’s favor.

            3. Preposterous.

              Trump is a braggart, and he’s boorish. He’s not a fascist.

              Why is it so many “libertarians” adopt the tactics of progressives?

              1. Spinach Chin – Why are so many “libertarians” adopting the tactics of neoconfederates, christian theocrats, protectionists and nationalists?

                1. Answer my question first.

                2. It’s funny, I burnt down your entire world in another post in this thread, and exposed your entire worldview as a sham, yet all you can comment on is this?

                  lol

        3. What bothers me most about Trump is not his position on any one issue, it’s the general superficiality of his thinking. Re his upcoming meeting with the NRA: do you think he understands – or is even curious – about the principle that people on the no-fly list got there without a legal hearing? Does he realize, or care, that these names can be copy/pasted onto a gun no-buy list without a legal hearing, or the people being charged with a crime? I don’t.

          I shouldn’t have to waste the pixels to explain this, but just for the record, I will not be voting for Trump or Clinton.

          1. “What bothers me most about Trump is not his position on any one issue, it’s the general superficiality of his thinking.”

            +1 for this. The next president will have to confront issues that aren’t yet on the horizon, so the only way we have to judge how this person will deal with these issues is to examine how they approach their positions on current issues. Trump’s approach is completely superficial and not grounded in any inner principle or ideology, only evidently what best effects his poll numbers. That’s a rather terrible way to be a leader.

            1. Trump’s approach is completely superficial and not grounded in any inner principle or ideology, only evidently what best effects his poll numbers.

              And you honestly believe Clinton doesn’t triangulate on most things? And where she does approach things from “principle”, the principle is vindictiveness and punishment of her opponents as well as violation of human rights.

              1. How about this? Screw Clinton and Trump. If I didn’t vote for Romney, I’m certainly not going to vote for Trump. Screw ’em all.

            2. Trump’s approach is completely superficial and not grounded in any inner principle or ideology, only evidently what best effects his poll numbers. That’s a rather terrible way to be a leader.

              Sounds a lot like how Bill Clinton did things.

              That said, fuck Trump and Hillary both.

      2. The country is likely going to go through a recession during the next president’s terms. In handling the recession, I’m sure Hillary and Trump will be equally as bad. Trump praised TARP and the auto bailouts. He even went so far as to praise Obama’s stimulus–that’s something almost no Republican did. To have Trump be worse than the average Republican politician on economic policy is saying a lot.

        Cite: http://www.redstate.com/diary/…..cy-agenda/

      3. People consider the possibility of voting for someone other than one of the two horrible major party candidates.
        I promise not to vote for Hillary to stop Trump, if you promise not to vote for Trump to stop Hillary.

  15. Why are people voting for Trump? Immigration. It’s so weird how this has become the policy whose name must not be spoken. The wall makes sense to people. Our refugee program seems like a cruel joke that delivers terrorists into our midst. And sanctuary cities subsidize and exacerbate things.

    Hillary and Trump differ substantially on the issue of immigration.

    1. “Why are people voting for Trump? Immigration.”

      Correct. But only some retarded, bigoted conservatard morons with neoconfederate sympathies are voting for Trump. Different polls show that this group makes less than 15% of the total electorate.

      1. Ready for Hillary, are we?

        1. There’s no “we” dumbfuck idiot.

          1. If you can’t even understand basic english idioms and figures of speech, it does kind of explain your density elsewhere.

            1. Thnx, conservatard whore.

            2. I think he may actually be retarded, so we probably shouldn’t make fun of him.

      2. Look, if it upsets you that much, post your address and I’ll be glad to mail you a hankie. A nice pink one to go with your politics.

  16. I think few people buy that the country is better off importing people who want to kill us.

    1. Those that stand to get a permanent voting bloc think they will.

      1. See I don’t get this argument at all.

        Even if immigrants were socialized in a culture of left-wing socialism before immigrating here, don’t people ever change their minds about anything? Are they and their progeny doomed to be socialists for ever and ever?

        I can tell you that I have changed my views on many issues over the course of my life. Why aren’t immigrants capable of the same thing?

        If immigrants wind up voting for statists and socialists as a bloc, it isn’t because they are genetically predisposed to socialism, it is because we on the pro-liberty and pro-markets side have failed to sell the idea of free markets and free minds. And that failure is on US, not them.

        1. It doesn’t have to be a ‘permanant voting bloc’ to cause permanant damage to the institutional structure. Just a big enough bloc for long enough.

          Then there won’t be any more opposition permitted and the goon squad will have free reign to ‘change minds’. Of course that won’t stop reality from reflecting the damage (see Venezuela), but by then the looting will have taken place.

          1. But if the pro-liberty side is so terrible at selling the idea of free markets and free minds, then the question of WHO votes for socialism in the end is a moot point. Who cares if it’s imported brown people from Mexico, or imported whitebread Europeans, who vote for socialism in the end?

            And THAT is where I think the charge of racism has some degree of merit. Who would you rather have imported into the country, 100 day laborers from Mexico, or 100 proggie SJW’s from Toronto? If the real goal was to stop the slide into socialism, then I’m gonna pick the day laborers over the proggie poofters. And yet everyone focuses on the brown people. Because, I’m assuming, they are considered beyond reach because they belong to the “wrong tribe”.

            1. I think everybody “focuses on the brown people” because there are so many more of them, because unemployment/underemployment are so high and people think those brown people “terk der jerbs” and because the numbers of them in welfare have been so publicized (whether accurately or inaccurately).

              1. Right, but what is *really* causing the slide into socialism? Waves of brown people? Or left-wing proggie bullshit?

            2. Since the “pro-liberty” side is arguing that it’s okay to suspend freedom of movement for the crime of disagreeing with them politically, the failure of that side may be due to the fact that they’re not actually “pro-liberty”, but rather “pro-special-pleading”.

        2. What makes you think your failure to sell freedom will suddenly turnaround?

          1. Well if it doesn’t, then more or less immigration really doesn’t matter. We are going to get more socialism in the end anyway.

        3. I didn’t say it was smart, but the voting patterns of Hispanics lend credence to their plan.

          Basically, Team Blue has decided that “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em import enough people and give them free shit until you overwhelm them numerically”.

        4. One reason more immigration doesn’t lead to bigger government, or at least grow government more rapidly, is that open immigration laws make native voters oppose welfare because they believe immigrants will be the primary beneficiaries. As Paul Krugman aptly observed, “Absent those [immigration] restrictions, there would have been many claims, justified or not, about people flocking to America to take advantage of [New Deal] welfare programs.” The late Cornell University labor historian and immigration restrictionist Vernon M. Briggs Jr. echoed Krugman when he wrote, “This era [of immigration restrictions] witnessed the enactment of the most progressive worker and family legislation the nation has ever adopted.”
          In other words, Roosevelt’s New Deal and LBJ’s Great Society programs could only have been created because immigration was so heavily restricted, thus removing the most effective political argument against expanding welfare. Those programs wouldn’t have been politically possible to create in an era of mass immigration. That could be a very good political reason for conservatives to embrace ethnic, religious, and racial diversity as another means to achieve economic policy goals.
          http://thefederalist.com/2016/…..on-policy/

          1. So, what is the argument here, now that these welfare programs are already in place we should import more beneficiaries? That makes no fucking sense at all.

            1. If you read it again, there is are some weak possibilities you might understand it. But I wouldn’t bet on it.

              1. So, no coherent argument. Not surprised at all. New troll is an idiot.

                1. My argument is right above you, cunt. If you are a functional illiterate, that’s your problem.

                  1. Jesus Christ, you really are a fucking idiot. There is no argument there which addresses the question I raised. Jump up your own ass and try to find your brain, fuckstain.

            2. No, the argument is that having a more restrictionist immigration policy makes it politically *easier*, not harder, to expand domestic socialism.

              1. “No, the argument is that having a more restrictionist immigration policy makes it politically *easier*, not harder, to expand domestic socialism.”

                +1

                At least I know you are not a Lew Rockwellite paleo”libertarian” neoconfederate sympathieser shilling for Trump, since you are not a functional illiterate.

                1. Another cookie:

                  The same conclusion was reached by this study from the Univesity of Harvard:

                  Overall, the cross-country evidence, the cross-state evidence […] suggest that hostility between the races limits support for welfare. It is clear that racial heterogeneity within the US is one of the most important reasons why the welfare state in America is small.
                  http://scholar.harvard.edu/fil….._state.pdf

                  This “principle” also explains why the welfare state grew a lot after the spread of nationalistic sentiment after WWI and WWII, and after the strong restriction on immigration in 1920s. Also, this explains why the welfare state was invented by conservatives and nationalists in Prussia. And also explains, why the welfare state is so diffused in Nordic countries, that are relatively homogeneous as a population – that think of themselves as a big family.

              2. No, the argument is that having a more restrictionist immigration policy makes it politically *easier*, not harder, to expand domestic socialism.

                Right, which is why progressive ideology has become increasingly unpopular over the last 120 years in this country, and why mestizo immigrants in particular are small-government fanatics.

              3. Yes. And the mechanism the public will use to accomplish both immigration and domestic socialism, after they get sufficiently fed up, is electing someone like Trump.

                Somehow I’m not finding the argument that since we already have plenty of domestic looters and mooches it can’t hurt to import more of them very compelling.

            3. Gods above–it’s approvingly quoting Krugman.

              1. “Gods above–it’s approvingly quoting Krugman.”

                Yes moron. Even an idiot like Krugman understands it.

                Cultist moron.

        5. A democratic tyrant only needs 50% +1 to vote to grant him/her universal power once. They don’t need to vote anymore.

          Granted, we aren’t a democracy but the analogy should translate well enough.

          Plus… most regular people who vote left do so for their “stuff” all the while agreeing with you in principle that such a system is both wrong and unworkable. People are smart… but oy when they have to prove to others they aren’t dumb. Put them in an isolated booth and it’s full-on derpitude.

        6. Even if immigrants were socialized in a culture of left-wing socialism before immigrating here, don’t people ever change their minds about anything? Are they and their progeny doomed to be socialists for ever and ever?

          I’ll intrude a little data on this talky talk. This isn’t Day 0 immigrants. These are all Muslims. I’ll include links for similar data, with similar results, for Hispanic Americans.

          PEW Research report on Muslim Americans
          http://www.people-press.org/fi…..report.pdf
          Muslims Lean Democratic over Republicans over 6 to 1
          Muslims Want bigger government over smaller government over 3 to 1

          If immigrants wind up voting for statists and socialists as a bloc, it isn’t because they are genetically predisposed to socialism, it is because we on the pro-liberty and pro-markets side have failed to sell the idea of free markets and free minds. And that failure is on US, not them.

          Yes, the slavers are all *our* faults for not successfully persuading them not to be slavers. Peak cuck.

          1. PEW Research on Hispanic Americans
            http://www.pewresearch.org/fac…..democrats/
            Hispanics Lean Democratic over 3 to 1
            http://www.pewhispanic.org/201…..-religion/
            Hispanics Want Bigger Government Providing More Services over 3 to 1

    2. “I think few people buy that the country is better off importing people who want to kill us.”

      Mexicans are not trying to kill “us”. Muslims are not trying to kill “us”. Some individuals that happen to self-identify as Muslims sometimes kill some people. The same way, sometimes some individuals that happen to self-identify as Confederate sympathisers kill black people (or people in general)…

      1. But if it’s all one great big jumbled torrent of people – how are you going to separate out those that are trying to kill us?

        Border controls must be established and properly enforced – at the border – before we can say “all right, this one’s not a threat”.

        1. “Border controls must be established and properly enforced – at the border – before we can say “all right, this one’s not a threat”.”

          No thnx. Idiot. You are free to establish (if you already haven’t) and control your private property border. I don’t want to be a racist bigoted conservatard whore like you who has a tribalist mind and reasoning. I want to continue to trade and if necessary sell parts of my property to Mexicans and/or Muslims…

          Preventing other people making decisions about their property (or telling them who they can accept or can not accept in their property) is a totalitarian, nationalist, and totally un-libertarian thing to do.

          Now, fuck off.

          1. Preventing other people making decisions about their property (or telling them who they can accept or can not accept in their property) is a totalitarian, nationalist, and totally un-libertarian thing to do

            So why are you trying to tell us we must accept everybody and pay the cost for them swarming across the border?

            1. “So why are you trying to tell us we must accept everybody and pay the cost for them swarming across the border?”

              No. Nobody is obligating you to accept Mexicans or Muslims in your property.

              On the other hand, it’s you who wants to prevent hotel owners or ranch owners from employing immigrants.

              1. I have no issue with immigrants.

                I have issue with people who decide the rules don’t apply to them and that they’re entitled to everything we have.

                It’s the difference between inviting a friend to crash on your couch until they can get back on their feet and a guy just breaking the window and making himself at home.

                1. “I have issue with people who decide the rules don’t apply to them and that they’re entitled to everything we have.”

                  Aha, I understand, You are one of the “Socialism for me but no for thee” guys…

                  Nice to meet you, conservatard moron.

                  (If you have a problem with welfare, attack welfare not the “illegal” immigrants )

                  1. You clearly haven’t been reading here very long if you think I’m anything but vehemently anti-welfare.

                    Either that, or a poor excuse for a troll.

                    1. Thnx, conservatard whore. Have a nice day.

                    2. Poor excuse for a troll it is!

              2. No. Nobody is obligating you to accept Mexicans or Muslims in your property.

                Well I guess you’re technically right since as soon as my income is stolen by the state, it’s no longer my property to distribute as I wish.

                Now shall we go down the road of being obligated to allow people into my property? Because if you don’t think that’s happening then you’re not paying attention.

                1. “Well I guess you’re technically right since as soon as my income is stolen by the state, it’s no longer my property to distribute as I wish.”

                  Correct. The welfare state was not built by immigrant Mexicans of immigrant Muslims. It was built by American citizens.

                  State enforced border advocates reasoning smells of “collectivism”, racism and conservative retardedness from every point of view you want to see it.

                  1. The welfare state was not built by immigrant Mexicans of immigrant Muslims. It was built by American citizens.

                    Immigrants come in and start using welfare without paying into it. And they certainly vote to expand state power, not decrease it. I’m all for open borders if you remove the welfare state, but as long as we live in a nation-state that’s not going to happen. Immigration is just another failed government program.

                    1. “Immigrants come in and start using welfare without paying into it. ”

                      False. They do not have welfare benefits in the first 5 years. .

                      “And they certainly vote to expand state power, not decrease it.”

                      The same thing could be said about American citizens. Would you argue preventing black people from reproducing since their babies will probably use welfare in the future?

                      .

                      “I’m all for open borders if you remove the welfare state, but as long as we live in a nation-state that’s not going to happen.”

                      Huh?!.

                      […]Would you abandon your libertarian principles just so you could avoid paying a bit higher taxes? Or to put it another way, if drug legalization will lead to higher welfare taxes to treat drug addicts with public hospitals and Medicaid, would you say that libertarians should now start supporting the drug war until the welfare state is dismantled? Or would you stick with your principles and continue calling for an end to this evil, immoral, and destructive war even if it means you have to pay higher taxes? If the latter, then why not the same answer with respect to immigration?
                      http://fff.org/explore-freedom…..sses-mark/

                      .

                      ” Immigration is just another failed government program.”

                      No. Immigration, especially “illegal” immigration is Capitalism/free markets in action. State enforced borders/state enforced segregation is a Socialist totalitarian government program.

                      Conservatard whore.

                    2. You’re such a dishonest shit.

                    3. False. They do not have welfare benefits in the first 5 years. .

                      False, you disingenuous progtard. You should probably actually try to read and understand the bullshit you’re peddling, instead of swallowing whatever ignorant activist bloggers shit into your mouth.

                      There IS a 5 year requirement…. BUT, just like any government programs, there are exceptions, and sometimes, the exceptions to “welfare” benefits have important fine print.

                      For instance, ADULT immigrants cannot collect benefits for 5 years, but children under 18 can, even if their parents are illegals, and the main reason for getting food stamps is to feed your children, so…

                      Also, you’re only talking about federal assistance, and there’s also a wealth of benefits available to immigrants at the State level (depending on where you live). In Michigan, where I live, there are no “length of residency” requirements for immigrants. New immigrants can get cash assistance, health coverage, housing assistance, child care… to name just a few.
                      http://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/…..–,00.html

                    4. Also, if you really think that immigrants are not a massive drain on the welfare state, allow me to cure you of that delusion:

                      http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Imm…..Households
                      http://www.usatoday.com/story/…../71517072/

                      About 51% of immigrant-led households receive at least one kind of welfare benefit, including Medicaid, food stamps, school lunches and housing assistance, compared to 30% for native-led households, according to the report from the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that advocates for lower levels of immigration.

                      Those numbers increase for households with children, with 76% of immigrant-led households receiving welfare, compared to 52% for the native-born.

      2. It appears Trump protestors are finally realizing that the use of Mexican flags is causing blowback. From a story on his upcoming Dallas rally:

        “Organizers are asking that demonstrators wear white shirts “to promote peace” and carry American flags rather than the Mexican flags that have been popular at other Trump protests in Texas and around the country.”

        1. 2 to 1 odds that protesters will still show up waving Mexican flags.

      3. Nazis are not trying to kill us, just some people who identify as nazis are trying to kill us.

        The reality is anyone can see what the statistics show, terrorists are Muslims. Now you can jump up and down and say “not all” just like you could for any other ideology that killed in history but you might as well scream on the street corner that the sky is not blue. It only makes you look like a retard.

        1. ” The reality is anyone can see what the statistics show, terrorists are Muslims.”

          Well, what I see is that terrorists come from countries being terrorised by western nations like the US for example. So, the root cause of terrorism maybe the western imperialism in the middle east.

          Also, for some context, since you might be a Christian conservatard who thinks that only Muslims have radicals… Just to teach you some history.

          Christian terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

          Crimes that occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

          1. R_Hak derp de derp. Derp de derpity derpy derp. Until one day, the derpa derpa derpaderp. Derp de derp da teedily dumb. From the creators of Der, and Tum Ta Tittaly Tum Ta Too, R_Hak is Da Derp Dee Derp Da Teetley Derpee Derpee Dumb. Rated PG-13.

            1. Go pray god, retard.

              1. Go try grammar, fuckstain.

                1. I don’t need it. I’m not a state-enforced conservatard grammar nazi like you. I’m a descriptivist when It comes to language (and everything else)

                  1. Meta-troll detected. Thnx!

      4. Mexicans are not trying to kill “us”.

        But they do wish, over 3 to 1, to point the gun of government at us more often. See links previously provided.

  17. Sorry. It hasn’t yet been the “people” who voted for Trump. It’s Republicans. They are the ones who have bought the con hook, line and sinker. They, along with of course, many of the commenters here.

    1. “Sorry. It hasn’t yet been the “people” who voted for Trump. It’s Republicans. ”

      Only a small but very vocal racist, bigoted, conservatard minority of Republicans.

      1. How do you figure small? He outperformed 16 other candidates, even when it was down to 3. He won the party’s nomination, while getting millions of Republicans to vote for him. Not small by any measure.

      2. Trump got 13.5M votes in the GOP primaries, by far more than any other GOP candidate in any primary ever.

      3. You have to admit that Trump’s success sort of vindicates what progressives have been saying all along about the Tea Party and most Republicans – that they’re a bunch of bigoted racist morons.

        Even many libertarians, apparently, judging by the number of Trump apologists on these boards. It shames me to admit that there are so many so-called libertarians who have exposed themselves as closeted racist, mysogynistic, bigots.

        1. Like Ray Davies said, it’s a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.

        2. Sorry if I prefer to not have a bunch of people migrating here who will only end up wanting to grow our already bloated government state welfare programs, and scream out “racism” while bragging about how they’re “PROUD TO BE A MEXICAN/HONDURAN/WHATEVER TURD WORLD COUNTRY I MOVED FROM.”

          As for “misogyny”, if hating Hillary because she broke several major information security laws and has yet to actually be punished for it is misogyny, then there’s no way in hell I’d ever want to be a feminist.

            1. “I LUVS MUH DIVERSITY AT A DISTANCE!”

            2. Shouldn’t you be banging your bongo over on NPR? I have yet to see anything beyond name calling from you, which is the calling card of the hollow left.

              1. I think that your place is over at stromfront.org or some other nationalist, white supremacist shithole.

                Conservatard whore.

        3. Besides name calling, what is the evidence you present besides your feelz?

          1. That was for hazel Meade.

        4. You have to admit that Trump’s success sort of vindicates what progressives have been saying all along about the Tea Party and most Republicans – that they’re a bunch of bigoted racist morons.

          Progressives are bigoted racist morons. They favor state imposed racial preferences.

          Have Trump supporters come out for these? Not that I’ve heard.

          You just keep shrieking “Racist!”, O Progressitarian, but be warned that it didn’t work for Brexit. The jig may be up for this bullshit. Then what you gonna do?

  18. “There is no reward for you for making a smart decision and no penalty for a stupid one. “

    So what’s the point of the article? Oh yea, to hold up a sign that says I’m smarter than some people. Well, good for you there sparky.

  19. Trump spouts a torrent of promises and boasts with nothing to back them up.

    Trump’s followers can fill these empty phrases with whatever meaning they choose. But the substance of what he wants, or what they want, is not at the core of his appeal.

    Those Trump promises, such as forcing Mexico to pay for a wall and making America great again? They’re enough to win votes, even though his supporters know they may not come true.

    In 2008 you could have said:

    Obama spouts a torrent of promises and boasts with nothing to back them up.

    Omama’s followers can fill these empty phrases with whatever meaning they choose. But the substance of what he wants, or what they want, is not at the core of his appeal.

    Those Obama promises, such as universal health care and hope and change? They’re enough to win votes, even though his supporters know they may not come true.

    Although I’m not sure Obama’s supporters were actually smart enough to know they weren’t going to come true.

    1. “But but but… Obama did it first and worse!!!!!”

      God… how predictable of a response to anything remotely critical of Trump.

      1. Obama did it first and won.

        I for one would like someone to beat the Progressive Theocracy.

  20. You have to give reason credit for having a sense of humor. Having a guy who voted for Obama in 2008 write an article accusing Trump supporters of believing fantasies is indeed high comedy.

  21. The best thing about the Trump candidacy is that it’s exposed how completely phony most “libertarians” are.

    1. MUH DIVERSE RESTAURANTS!!

      1. You are just another neoconfederate Lew Rockwellite shilling for Trump.

        1. Hi Mary!

          1. Hi, white supremacist, neoconfederate sympathiser, nationalist protectionist whore!

    2. The best thing about the Trump candidacy is that it’s exposed how completely pissed off most “libertarians” are.

  22. I’m voting for Trump because I want to be able to look out of my window and see an Enlightened? corpse swinging from every lamppost, and I’m willing to jump on any bandwagon heading in that general direction.

    Any questions?

  23. Trump ‘supporters’.

    Trump ‘approval’

    idiots.

    The vast majority of people voting for Trump don’t support or approve of him at all. They just hate Hillary and what she’ll do far more. The just despise what the GOP has been doing, and they don’t see Johnson as any kind of real improvement with his recent turn towards SJW appeasement.

    They’re all about saying ‘fuck you’ to the entire fucking messed up system–teams ‘orange’ and green included. People have been fucked with for far too long.

    And Trump is hated by the Dems, hated by the GOP, hated by the greens, the libertarians, the masters of false intellect and useless credentialism, the media–by the whole fucked up establishment.

    So he gets that vote of hate

    …..and may whatever gods you believe in have mercy on your souls.

  24. Government propaganda is not that different from Trump’s rhetoric.

  25. Remember the great words of Marshall McLuhan, folks: “The medium is the message.” If you just concentrate on what he says, you’re never gonna grok Donald Trump.

  26. This column was as devoid of actual content as Trump’s tweets.

  27. “Why People Vote for Trump: Some are drawn to the appeal of what he says, not the substance.”

    Well thanks for the layman’s definition of populism. Weez wuz skratchin’ our head der fo a minut!

  28. Trump supporters aren’t supporting Trump, they are supporting the down fall of the mainstream, corrupt, ineffectual establishment.

    Trump is simply the guy that was in the right place at the right time. Trump didn’t create this movement, he is just the first guy riding it.

    Nobody believes Trump is an ideal candidate for president, but he is the only one right now taking on the establishment. And he won’t be the last, that’s for sure.

    1. David B, you need to start writing for Reason. Not a lot of people are fan boys of Trump, especially not Libertarians. He is speaking with the least amount of politically correct BS and is openly antagonizing the establishment government. Hillary and Bernie are for increasing the size and increasing the left bent of our already hard-left leaning, politically correct jackboot of government.

      1. “David B, you need to start writing for Reason.”

        Lol. Fortunately Reason is NOT dependent on donations from white supremacist, Lew Rockwellite, neoconfederate, protectionist cunts like you.

        1. I tend to consider myself a fiscal conservative and socially liberal. I tend to describe myself as libertarian or classically liberal.

          So I would then be a libertarian that likes Trump.

          I don’t like Trump because I think he is a great candidate, I like him because he is the only person causing the establishment to shake in their jack boots. The establishment (which includes the media) is genuinely worried about a Trump presidency, and that’s great in my book.

          Personally, I would prefer someone like Rand Paul, because he understands sound money and how wealth is created, but Rand, nor Johnson, are tough enough.

  29. the USA is not a democracy – it is a Constitutional Republic……….

    1. Citation needed.

  30. Yet another Reason article where I’m left wondering if I accidentally stumbled onto Left PR or MSNBC.

    1. Fortunately Reason is NOT dependent on donations from white supremacist, Lew Rockwellite, neoconfederate, protectionist cunts like you.

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