Donald Trump

The Alt-Right Is Wrong: Trump Is an Enemy of Western Civilization, Not Its Champion

If your candidate opposes free trade and free speech, he's not a defender of classical liberalism.

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Trump
Todd Kranin / Reason

Some of Donald Trump's most ardent supporters believe he is the only candidate who will defend Western culture from its enemies both foreign (illegal immigrants, Muslims) and domestic (cultural relativists, campus leftists). The U.S. is besieged by forces that want to destroy its cultural heritage, and Trump is the only one who gets that, they say. 

This is a terrible reason to support Trump, but not because the values of the West aren't worth protecting—they are. The sad! fact is that Trump adamantly rejects two of the most important legacies of the Enlightenment and Western society: free markets and freedom of the press. No presidential candidate who fails to grasp why unrestricted trade across national borders is the hallmark of a civilized society is fit to lead one, and no leader who seeks the power to shut down newspapers who criticize him can be trusted to defend classical liberalism from its enemies. 

Over at The Federalist, Mytheos Holt makes the most straightforward case that Trump is the candidate for a nation at war with the forces of barbarity and economic decline: 

Donald Trump deserves to be president. More than any of the current candidates—although not to their exclusion—he is the best choice to lead this nation. … 

Trump, whatever else he might be, is unabashedly pro-Western. What's more, he understands the essentially cultural and even spiritual nature of the vacuum white nationalism fills. 

White nationalists, in Holt's view, are misguided to the extent that they put undue importance on race. It's the values of Western Europeans, not their skin color, that matters: 

… The sorts of people who are attracted to white nationalism are people whose own communities have been hollowed out by economic and cultural forces beyond their control, and who are now adrift in a society they perceive to be universally hostile to their heritage for no good reason. 

That heritage, as white nationalists in America see it, is the heritage of Western civilization. If you wonder what that means (which is reasonable), let me spell it out: It means historically Western European cultural norms. Specifically, norms like respect for agents of the law, aspirational pride in work, willingness to accept the consequences of one's actions, disdain for laziness and welfarism, and reproductive responsibility (i.e., not having children you can't afford to keep). 

They respect these norms not merely because these are what their own communities follow, but also because they think these norms make constitutional government, liberty, and classical republicanism possible. 

I agree with Holt that Western civilization is responsible for a lot of good in the world (and some bad, naturally). But I disagree emphatically that Trump has any standing to claim that he is "unabashedly pro-Western." A man cannot portray himself as the defender of the Enlightenment, modern Western civilization, and classical liberalism if he is desperate to undo its crowning achievements. 

And make no mistake, Trump and Western culture are oil and water. His illiberal, uncivil tendencies are too numerous to list here, but for starters, he has vowed to make it easier to sue newspapers. His staffers assault journalists. His supporters attack protesters. This is not a man who believes, as the 18th century French philosopher Voltaire did, "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." This is a man who wants to silence his critics and thinks the government is just one tool for accomplishing that. 

Trump is also totally opposed to free trade—a natural extension of the right to free expression, and the cause of Western nations' rapid increase in prosperity over the course of the last two centuries. Trump would do everything he could to rid the U.S. of the economic conditions that made it rich in the first place. 

Trump is only "unabashedly pro-Western" in the sense that he wants the U.S. to replicate the pre-Enlightenment conditions of Western Europe: the Dark Ages. Of course, there's nothing particularly Western about the Dark Ages—the entire world has suffered some version of the West's long period of tribal warfare, poverty, and repression. 

Since Trump is not actually someone who defends Western values, it seems like the more obvious explanation for his popularity is the better one. Trump is not the candidate of Western European values: he is the candidate of people who descend from Western Europeans—white people. He excites racists, not because he appreciates modern civilization, but because he appeals to racism. I agree with The Federalist's Robert Tracinski, who writes that members of the so-called alt-right—Trump's online fanbase—"are just a bunch of racists": 

I can't find anything particularly "right-wing" about them—not in the American sense, which has traditionally meant advocacy of free markets, individual rights, and the ideals of our Founding Fathers. … 

The central theme of the Western intellectual tradition is about rising above tribalism to arrive at universal values. That's a common theme that connects both secular and Christian traditions in the West. It was the whole distinctive idea behind the Ancient Greek revolution in thought. Philosophers like Socrates launched the Western tradition by asking probing questions that were meant to sort out which ideas and practices are based merely on historical accident and social convention, versus those that are based on universal laws of human nature. … 

The fact that much of the alt-right is ignorant of the Western tradition was made clear to me by those who insist that Hispanic immigrants are culturally "non-Western" and "non-European." They are apparently unaware that "Hispanic" refers to the linguistic and cultural influence of Spain, which is in—anyone? anyone?—Western Europe. So much for caring about the cultural legacy of the West. 

Need more reasons to hate Trump? We've got you covered. [Related: The Incredible Cluelessness of Donald Trump] 

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269 responses to “The Alt-Right Is Wrong: Trump Is an Enemy of Western Civilization, Not Its Champion

  1. Robby has done it. Occam’s Trump.

    Since Trump is not actually someone who defends Western values, it seems like the more obvious explanation for his popularity is the better one.

    Trumpam’s Razor?

    1. Call it the Miss Congeniality corollary:

      “Whenever someone becomes popular, it is for the dumbest possible reason.”

    2. Trumpam’s Razor?

      I used to consider it Occam’s Theory Of a Lack Of Imagination. So, invoking the imagination and using the hardest parts to bludgeon rather than cut away;

      Soave’s Hammer?

  2. If your candidate opposes free trade and free speech, he’s not a defender of classical liberalism.

    The alt-right crowd are not defenders of classical liberalism, so that’s not a bug for them, it’s a feature.

    1. This. There’s nothing classical liberal about the alt-right, they just latched onto “western civilization” much the same way the left latched onto the word “liberal” when there’s nothing classically liberal about their views either.

      1. Western civilization is a euphemism.

        1. A euphemism for what? That Western Civilization (until we began to surrender to jihadis) was superior to anything else out there?

          1. I wonder how much crack a person has to smoke before “responding to every American civilian casualty by pissing away a hundred million dollars to kill a hundred jihadis” starts to look like “surrendering”.

        2. I’m not sure how you manage to take an asshole stance that isn’t relevant 100% of the time but you do. We could call you the Donald Trump of this forum.

    2. What about the alt-libertarian fanboys of Trump: Rockwell, Block, Molyneux, Cantwell…

      1. What’s “alt-” about them? Is Reason Establishment-libertarian?

        1. What is alt about them is that they are taking a stance that is alternative to liberty and libertarian principles.

        2. Reason is Progressive Libertarian and extremely PC.

          1. to clarify PC about Islamic immigration not being a threat classical liberal values

        3. Is Reason Establishment-libertarian?

          Increasingly Progressitarian.

      2. Molyneux needs to shut up about race and sex.

    3. If your candidate opposes free trade and free speech, he’s not a defender of classical liberalism

      If that candidates opponents spout ‘free trade’ and ‘Rand’ and ‘capitalism’ while looting the system and undermining the very words ‘free trade’ and ‘free markets’, then those opponents are far more dangerous to classical liberalism than the candidate is.

      1. Pinochet would disagree with you, there.

  3. Snake-Oil futures are looking up.

    1. These masturbation euphemisms etc etc

  4. The alt right are overtly racist and bigoted scum. But the yokels here will surely deny that in their bizarre/ non-compelling defenses of restrictive immigration and social conservatism.
    -Elitist Northeastern cosma and proud

    1. “You talk like a fag and your shit’s all retarded.”

      1. fck of yokel

        1. Woody? Hey, woody…c’mere a second. How ya doin’? Good? Good.

          See, Loki here – the guy you just called a yokel – he was doing a bit. That’s a quote from Idiocracy. He’s even got quote marks around it and everything.

          Please tell me that this response

          fck of yokel

          was you doing a bit. Lie if you have to.

          1. you dont own me m8

            1. We’re just gonna assume you’re a retard.

  5. Lyin’ Rico, being very unfair to Trump. Why are you so mean?

    1. “Lyin’ Ted” is a half step above “Double Parkin’ Ted” or “Bad Tippin’ Ted” in terms of potent political insults.

      “Hey! White Power Bill has dirty ears. Hey guys, Dirty Ears Bill!”

      1. I commend you for the AD reference.

  6. The what-right?

    1. Google Jeff Deist’s speech on the alt-right. He gives a good overview.

  7. Alt-Right? What about the alt-text?

    1. You forgot

      “amirite?”

  8. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnn

  9. Well, there’s free trade and there’s thumb on the scales free trade. I read my Rothbard back in the day and I know that the libertarian position is that, no matter what stupid trade wars other countries try to incite, leaving trade open is better from both a principled and consequentialist viewpoint.

    But I have to say, the visibility of the anti-free trade sentiment this year has made me more sympathetic to their arguments. An actor like China has the power to create massive economic distortions. Steel dumping due to crappy, non-market actions by China ends up wiping out whole steel towns and regions, and then what happens when China stops dumping? Surely it is not so easy to rebuild that infrastructure.

    /geek out of his depth

    1. The problem then is you’re basically left arguing that the US needs to be as oppressive as China is, for fairness.

      1. That’s basically my sense of it. There’s no way to retaliate that doesn’t fatally compromise our overall sphere of economic freedoms. There’s probably no trade war that massive freedom and dynamism wouldn’t tear to pieces.

        1. Even if China does all that, it is still a net benefit for the US. Sure, some steel towns go bust, but everyone gets cheaper steel. Is the argument that then China raises prices once the steel mills in the US shut down? That opens the door to new players in the market. Look, China tried to corner the rare earth market and failed miserably. That kind of market manipulation does not work out in the long run. Either our arguments for free trade work all the time, or they don’t work in principle.

          1. That is nonsense. It is utterly false to presume a net benefit. Short-term artificial controls of trade goods only benefits those who planned for that. Chinese steel dumping happens solely to help the Chinese economy. sure, some in the US might glom on and reap some rewards, but the very act of dumping was designed to benefit China’s interests. It is not a win-win, and frankly its kinda clueless to think it would be.

            Market manipulation almost always works out in the long run for those who were manipulating. Free trade is of great benefit, but only when all parties involved act with open fairness. Implementing free trade agreements with other parties that plan to rape you whenever possible is the height of idealistic cluelessness.

            1. OK, dude. Not sure where you economic education comes from, but you might want to start by learning about comparative advantage. Even one sided free trade is better than restrictions on both sides. Take your mercantilist ideas to breitbart.

              1. lol….sure, embrace your idealist delusions.

                History is pretty conclusive on this.

    2. Yes, sometimes a trade war may be needed as a last resort, if only to bring the other guys to the table and get them to cut out the shit they’re doing.

    3. Surely it is not so easy to rebuild that infrastructure.

      Show your work. History indicates that this tactic does not work.

    4. The oil industry seems to have rebuilt just fine. I think they plan for the boom times to end.

    5. And now China has invested countless billions in producing, among other boondoggles, enormous steel capacity. Steel is in a glut, in large part because of China’s actions. The Chinese economy is suffering. Boo unfair trading partners who sabotage their own economies for yet unseen benefits!

    6. no matter what stupid trade wars other countries try to incite, leaving trade open is better from both a principled and consequentialist viewpoint.

      If you believe in free trade, is it not *even better* to negotiate away the trade barriers of other countries? That is in fact what Trump suggest.

      One fundamental problem I see with some who believe in Liberty is that they don’t understand game theory, and that’s why Liberty is *losing*.

      The people who believe in constitutionalism, obey the constitution, while losing again and again to those who violate constitutionalism.
      The people who believe in the rule of law, obey the rule of law, while losing again and again to those who violate the rule of law.

      A one way cease fire is surrender.
      A one way rule of law is subjection.

      You get the other side to play nice by threatening something *they* value, or not at all. By *fighting back*.

  10. You know who else was against free trade, free speech, and helped design a car?

    http://jalopnik.com/how-donald…..1764776150

    1. heh…..the old interview they link to is from LCT, one of the trade mags put out by Bobit Publishing. My first job out of college was working for them on other magazines. It was, um, an unusual place to work, but it did have one awesome perk – automakers used to give them press cars to drive. Many of them were ordinary Chevys and Subarus and such, but now and then it would be a luxury or sports car like a Jaguar XK8 convertible or an Infinity Q45. It was amazing how much more receptive women in bars would be when I had driven there in a Jaguar convertible instead of my ’85 Honda.

    2. Sony Bono?

      I used to subscribe about a magazine about Mustangs and they had one article about a custom built Sonny Bono Mustang. (Cher had one too, but she wasn’t a slimy politician)

  11. It’s only called alt-right because social injustice warrior doesn’t work.

    1. Ooh, I like that. Might start using it.

      1. When do you join Salon or Vox with the rest of the SJWs you love so much

        1. He’ll have to line up with the unemployed Jezebel rejects.

  12. Since when is free trade an essential part of Western Civilization? The US was protectionist for a large part of its history. I don’t think your position on free trade says anything one way or another about your belief in Western Civilization.

    And the bitching about libel laws is such hyperbole that it borders on the retarded. First, the modern version of libel laws requiring a public figure to prove “reckless disregard for the truth” to win a libel suit is if not unique to America pretty damn close. Libel laws in Europe are much loser. And the reckless disregard standard didn’t exist in the US until the Supreme Court invented it in New York Times v. Sullivan in the early 1960s. I can see both sides of the issue. The idea that our free speech rights depend on journalists not having to worry about whether what they say about public figures is actually true or not is pretty idiotic. Truth is always a defense to liable. God forbid a journalists actually do any work and make sure what they are printing is true rather than believe anything they are told knowing as long as someone would have believed it they are covered.

    Basically Robby seems to think that Western Civilization didn’t exist before 1963. Considering the state of our education system, perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised by that.

    1. Wow – these masturbation euphemisms are getting COMPLEX…

      1. And really, really stupid.

        1. Well, when I see John posting, masturbation metaphors DO come to mind….

    2. Yeah, classical liberalism and libertarianism has always been an element of the West, but it’s a little arrogant to say it is the only or defining one.

    3. The U.S. Government has been deeply interventionist for well over a century; should we say that the Free Market is not an essential part of Western Civilization?

      1. Depend on how you define “free market”. If you define ti to be some kind of libertarian or close libertarian ideal, then no it is not. Capitalism and free markets are a part of western civilization but that doesn’t mean it is such a part that any deviation from some idea is against Western civilization.

      2. I think you could say free internal trade is an essential part of Western civilization. But there is nothing that says free international trade is.

    4. Since Adam Smith?

      1. Again, the US was a protectionist nation for most of its history. Was it not a part of Western Civilization? Was it a barbaric nation of savages? If not, then why is a commitment to cheap shit uber alles necessary to believe in Western Civilization?

        1. Its an ideal. Whether any country reaches or even comes close to it is bedise the point.

          1. It was never even an ideal. No one in the 19th Century thought it was essential or any kind of ideal. To believe that it is, you have to believe Western Civilization didn’t start until after World War II.

            1. De Vitoria, Smith, Ricardo, Mill, the D presidents from Jackson to Buchanan, Cobden-Chevalier. And more.

        2. And for most of its protectionist history it alternated between allowing chattel slavery and actively seeking to expand its footprint. So yes, for most of its history it was a barbaric nation of savages.

          Also, what robc said.

          1. Protectionism, its just like slavery!!!

            And reason goes for peak retard. Totally free international trade was never an ideal in Western Civilization. it just wasn’t.

            1. No, actual slavery, the peculiar institution that we fought a war to end. Wow, you totally misread that. You’re a lawyer?

              Totally free trade is absolutely an ideal of post-enlightenment Western Civ and a logical conclusion of the liberalism it is supposed to represent. The southerners were the free traders, yet the country did not start embracing that ideal until after slavery ended. History’s funny.

              1. otally free trade is absolutely an ideal of post-enlightenment Western Civ

                Show me a single piece of evidence to back that up. Mercantilism was the ideal for most of the 19th Century. And that isn’t’ free trade. I can’t think of a single figure in the 19th Century who advocated for completely free trade even where other countries did not reciprocate nor can I name a single country that practiced such.

            2. And GOP abolitionists like Lincoln were Protectionist. Slave owning south was for Free trade.

        3. Considering alavery was legal in the US until 1865, barbaric nation of savages isnt far off the mark.

          But the ideals were there, even if they werent reached.

          Im sure you think Jefferson was unfit to be president due to his hypocracy, but the Declaration lays out the ideals of classical liberalism. He couldnt follow them either in government or in his personal life. But they are still there.

          1. But the ideals were there, even if they werent reached.

            Show me where it was ever an ideal. The Constitution was written on the assumption that the federal government would fund itself through import duties.

            Where do you guys come up with this shit? Seriously?

            1. See my list above.

            2. The presence of import duties is not, on its own, evidence of protectionism. It’s the manner of how they are applied that’s important.

              I would have no problem in principle with FedGov funding itself with a 30% tariff on all imports – it’s essentially a sales tax. I would absolutely have a problem with them imposing those taxes only on steel from China. Then they are inappropriately distorting the market for that product.

              1. Why doesn’t the FedGov impose a 30% tariff on exports? Americans have to pay the tax on imports, but foreigners would pay the tax on exports, right?

                1. I’m going to assume this is a serious question. The Feds couldn’t impose said tax on exports because foreigners wouldn’t pay it. They’d just get their shit somewhere else. There is almost no item that is exclusive to one nation anymore.

          2. Considering alavery was legal in the US until 1865, barbaric nation of savages isnt far off the mark.

            Unlike those cornerstones of western civilization where no slavery existed at all, Rome and Greece, correct?

        4. The US and the entire New World had the Transatlantic Slave Trade. Is that also a part of Western Civilization? Or did the principles of modern Western liberal thought put an end to the slave trade? “Work hard and obey” is a slogan of most authoritarian – an illiberal societies.

          1. Black people had been enslaving each other for over one thousand years before whites arrived. Blacks castrated their own young men for sale to the arabs. White people are the only group of people to end slavery in the history of the world and it was resented. This constant drumbeat of white guilt has to end. The accusation of racism is just pure tribalism. We are tired of it.

      2. Given the current state of “western civilization”, I think a good argument, maybe even a better argument, could be made for Marxism, not laissez-faire classical liberalism, as the dominant strain of western civilization.

  13. LIGHT THE TRUMPTARD SIGNAL!!!!!1!!!1111!!!!!!!!111!!!!

    1. [chugs 40 of Schlitz, places testicles on searchlight]

      1. Schlitz?!? Come on. Haffenreffer Private Stock, bitches.

        1. Meister Brau

          1. Milwaukee’s Best.

            1. You guys are all listing non-malt liquor. I need my beer fortified.

              1. well in that case, Olde English 800 cause it’s my brand, take it in a bottle, 40, quart,or a can, drink it like a madman yes I do, fuck the police and a 502

            2. Has anyone over the age of, say, 23 ever actually drank the Beast?

              1. I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to sell the Beast to anyone with a college degree.

                1. Or a valid id.

          2. Natty Boh, hon.

        2. Cut me a break, man, they don’t carry that at the 7-11.

          1. At least get some Colt 45.

            True story: In college, I once asked a friend to pick me up some malt 40s since he was going to the liquor store anyway. He came back with…Colt 45 mint. I shit you not. It was terrible. I still drank it. What?

            1. I bought a friend a shot of Aristocrat vodka on his 21st birthday as a joke. The bartender chewed me out, and then the other bartender came over and chewed me out too.

            2. He came back with…Colt 45 mint. I shit you not. It was terrible. I still drank it.

              Of course you drank it, you were in college. I once got bombed on Keystone.

              *hangs head in shame*

              I drew the line at Red Stripe though.

              1. Pffffft – I’ve had that generic “BEER” that Ralph’s used to sell. White can, black capital letters. We rather liked buying it at the time because a)drinking awful beer was much more socially acceptable in the early-mid ’90s b)we could imagine we were extras in Repo Man.

      2. Schultz isn’t nearly classy enough for the trump tar signal. Colt 45. It was classy enough for Lando Calrissian to endorse.

        And that searchlight better be yuuuuuge.

        1. Of course it’s yuge. My enormous balls would crush a normal searchlight.

  14. he has vowed to make it easier to sue newspapers.

    Libel and slander laws vary quite a bit, even across western countries. You might think that newspapers should be practically immune from prosecution, but that’s hardly a universal sentiment within the west.

    His staffers assault journalists.

    There hasn’t even been a plea yet, much less a trial, much less a verdict. Are you rendering a guilty verdict first and then having the trial afterwards? That’s not very American of you, Rico. We have this thing in America that some of like to call the presumption of innocence.

    His supporters attack protesters.

    Transferred, collective guilt? Also not a very American value. And one that you would never make about Obama and his supporters.

    There’s a lot not to like about Trump, but your case here is pretty weak. Frankly, there’s way more evidence of Obama attempting to silence and punish his critics than there is of Trump doing is.

    1. Considering that Trump offered to pay the legal fees of a guy who sucker punched (and threatened to kill) a protester who was being escorted out, I don’t think there’s any need for collective guilt here.

    2. Frankly, there’s way more evidence of Obama attempting to silence and punish his critics than there is of Trump doing is.

      It’s hilarious that you think one being somewhat “worse” or “better” than the other has any bearing on them both being pieces of shit, Mike. Tell us why it matters. This should be good.

      1. Y U NOT THNIK LIEF IS BINARY PROPOSITION E-PEE

        1. It’s trinary! It’s either TEAM RED, TEAM BLUE, or TEAM BE RULED.

          1. wait – isn’t all that unitary?

            1. If you want to wear a unitard when you go to your modern dance classes, that’s fine with me, X, but don’t expect me to compliment your figure.

              1. Chipwooder =! Citizen X, Epi.

                I’ll leave it you to figure how this works out what with all of us being Tulpa.

                1. Oh shit, sorry, dude, I saw the “C” and got lazy. I’m still not complimenting your figure. Nice camel toe, though.

                  1. The preferred nomenclature is “moose knuckle.” Warning: may be othering to Canadians.

      2. Oh Trump absolutely sucks. Almost as hard as you do when Warty gives the command.

        1. Well, I am the gayest monster since gay came to Gaytown. And for the record, Warty doesn’t command, he expects you to read his mind. If you don’t, he punishes you. More.

      3. Because tu quoque is a valid argument to retards?

      4. Did you miss Trump’s henchmen Roger Stone threatening to list the name and hotel numbers of Republican delegates who change their vote after the 1st ballot?

      5. It’s hilarious that you think one being somewhat “worse” or “better” than the other has any bearing on them both being pieces of shit, Mike.

        “Compared to what” is always a relevant question, particularly in politics.

  15. Trump, whatever else he might be, is unabashedly pro-Western.

    Wow. Some epic strength delusion happening in this one.

    1. At least less anti-western than the rest?

  16. Voltaire didn’t say the addage. It was gleaned by a biographer from his letters. A female biographer at that.

    Where’s Nikki?

    1. Is that like Where’s Waldo, except with someone you absolutely don’t want to actually find?

  17. I believe you find life this election such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You’re wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

  18. That Mytheos Holt column is hilarious:

    “Having already lost friends of multiple years and having been subjected to practically every hysterical insult you expect people to stop using at the age of 15….”

    Oh, you poor Trump supporter, would you like a blanket and some warm milk?

    “….I submit that the evidence of Trump’s character as a family man and father is not only irrefutable: it literally stands beside him every time he wins a primary. I’m talking, of course, about Ivanka, Eric, and Donald Jr.”

    He should have *all* his wives stand beside him, thus greatly multiplying his irrefutable character as a family man.

    “…norms like respect for agents of the law, aspirational pride in work, willingness to accept the consequences of one’s actions, disdain for laziness and welfarism, and reproductive responsibility (i.e., not having children you can’t afford to keep).”

    Yeah, Trump is the only one defending these things. Don’t you hate Cruz’s pro-laziness, boink-everything-that-moves rhetoric?

    “…many conservatives are, understandably, reluctant to engage with the sort of leftist, victim-culture-spouting loons who regard Western civilization as unrepentantly evil.”

    Don’t you hate how Cruz buddies up to the leftists and refuses to criticize them?

    1. “victim-culture-spouting loons”

      Starts off complaining that people say mean things to him.

      Criticizes the victim culture.

      1. “Kramer, this is where old people go to die!”

        *Jerry’s parents stare at him*

        “Not you….older people!”

  19. I think you could probably make a good argument that Marxism has emerged as the dominant strain of Western Civilization as to the relationship between the state and its subjects. If so, Bernie Sanders, as the best Marxist in the field, is the true champion of Western Civilization.

    1. Who gets jobs? Capitalists.

      Who gets education jobs? Marxists.

      Who suffers? The previous generations at the hands of the subsequent.

    2. Isn’t Intentional Socialism by definition anti-western?

  20. In the future there will be a day in which no news organization or outlet on the entire planet will mention Donald Trump. How far away from that day are we?

    1. That depends…

      Vote Trump!

      /sarc(?)

  21. Was this an enormous missed opportunity for Robby to declare = “You’re Alt-Wrong!“?

  22. The central theme of the Western intellectual tradition is about rising above tribalism to arrive at universal values.

    Like equal outcomes for everyone in society.

    1. You get a spot in a mass grave! You get a spot in a mass grave! You get a spot in a mass grave! Everybody gets a spot in a mass grave!

    2. Unfortunately, “universal values” is an empty box. You can put anything in it.

      Sharia? You bet.

      Communism? Of course. It even has a good “western” pedigree.

      1. Yeah, some “western” ideas have a better track record than others.

    3. The central theme of the Western intellectual tradition is about rising above tribalism to arrive at universal values.

      Spectacularly dumb. A great many totalitarians want their totalitarianism to be universal.

  23. Trump is only “unabashedly pro-Western” in the sense that he wants the U.S. to replicate the pre-Enlightenment conditions of Western Europe: the Dark Ages. Of course, there’s nothing particularly Western about the Dark Ages?the entire world has suffered some version of the West’s long period of tribal warfare, poverty, and repression.

    Huh?

    The Dark Ages weren’t dark because of evil, ignorance, and oppression (exactly). They were dark for the same/similar reasons the Darknet is dark. Evil, ignorance, and oppression literally reigned around the fall of the Roman Empire and it they had, by no means, been dispelled by the The Enlightenment when semi-standardized record-keeping became widespread once again.

    1. Well… kind of. The Dark Ages really started a couple of hundred years after the Goths took Rome. Lots of factors fed on each other.

      1. Disease and climate change (the bad kind – colder)
      2. Loss of North Africa to Muslim armies and Mediterranean piracy effectively ended regional trade
      3. Balkanization, Germanic and Viking invasions all over Western Europe

      1. The notion of the “Dark Ages” is an Enlightenment-era conceit anyway. It allowed the self-stylized intellectuals of the day to act as if no advancement in civilization took place between 476 and the rise of Charlemagne with the Carolingian Renaissance. Modern scholars have pretty much dispelled the notion that this was the case and its largely spouted by intellectually lazy secular progressives now when they’re shitting their pants about Christianity.

  24. The sad! fact is that Trump adamantly rejects two of the most important legacies of the Enlightenment and Western society: free markets and freedom of the press.

    I would argue that the scientific method and the rule of law were more important and that led to free markets and the freedom of the press. A lot of people see Trump as an alternative to the establishment that prefers third world and muslim immigrants, and these groups as a whole don’t care that much about western values.

    Calling the alt-right a bunch of racists means Robby hasn’t done much research into the movement. Perhaps he should start with this one article that’s shows the movement is much more complex than that.

    An Establishment Conservative’s Guide To The Alt-Right

    1. That very article explicitly admits that (at least some of) the alt-right are tribal collectivists based on race as well as other factors. How’s that extra chromosome working out for you?

      1. You missed the point. The article does say some are racists, but the narrative is that all members of the alt-right are racists.

        1. I think that to Epi, anyone who thinks the virtues of Western civilization have anything to do with Western culture, and wants to preserve Western culture from foreigners who wish to destroy it, is somehow a “tribal collectivist.”

          1. Collectively, the alt right is bad…

    2. Every time I’ve seen someone referring to themselves as alt-right, they were about 5 minutes away from talking about how much they hate black people, so I’ll take Milo’s apologetics on their behalf with a grain of salt.

      1. Every time I’ve seen someone referring to themselves as alt-rightin the mirror, they were about 5 minutes away from talking about how much they hate black people

        Fixed for accuracy.

    3. “Are they actually bigots? No more than death metal devotees in the 80s were actually Satanists.”

      “Why are you guys calling me a racist? I was just calling that guy a ‘dirty nigger’ *ironically!*”

      1. “It was just my towering intellect that led me to conclude I hate miscegenation, not racism!”

        1. Out of curiosity what are the labels for distinguishing Jihadi-style purge-all-infidels white supremacists, ‘fraternizing between races is a bad idea’ bigots and racists, and run-of-the-mill NIMBY recluses, curmudgeons, and xenophobes?

          Seems like anyone who puts a toe across the LGBTQWERTY line can or does find themselves shoved to the bottom of the slippery slope pretty quickly.

          1. “Racist” is the words Progressives use to identify their enemies.

    4. Calling the alt-right a bunch of racists means Robby hasn’t done much research into the movement. Perhaps he should start with this one article that’s shows the movement is much more complex than that.

      Oh my god I wish I could laugh harder about the fact that you think the Breitbart story makes them look like anything other than a bunch of racists. I truly do.

      1. You obviously didn’t read the article, instead you resort to insults. Reason can use someone like you on their staff!

      2. Laughing is no better an argument than shrieking.

    5. You realize that the second link Robbie posted is (partly) a rebuttal to the Breitbart article?

      http://thefederalist.com/2016/…..f-racists/

      1. Yes, but that article doesn’t actually provide any real facts. The alt-right isn’t looking for a return of the antebellum south and other such nonsense. But it’s easier just to call people names than to actually dig deeper into the issues.

  25. What, no mention of eminent domain?

    No, Trump is not a perfect defender of Western civilization. Nobody of any consequence thinks that. But he’s the only candidate who addresses the downsides of mass illegal immigration and Muslim immigration. As they say, when the respectable politicians ignore the issues the voters care about, the less-than-respectable politicians will take up those issues.

    Regarding Muslim immigration, I find it bizarre that libertarians refuse to see that more Muslim immigration means more excuse for a surveillance state. Of course, to Clinton and Sanders, that may be more of a feature than a bug. They will be wanting to keep an eye on those KKK/Sovereign Citizen/libertarian types. And, of course, on misogynists and homophobes… except for the Muslim misogynists and homophobes that Clinton (at least) is eager to import.
    As for free trade and free speech, Clinton and Sanders are arguably worse. (You all understand that both are likely eager to support “fair trade” and “human rights” restrictions, right?) So once again, we have another “Trump is the worst” article that ignores the fact that his likely opponents are as bad or worse.

    1. Eminent Domain makes me as close to an SIV as possible.

      I dont care what else Trump says, his support for Kelo makes him a non-starter.

      1. I’m not saying that’s a plus, because it’s not. It was a bad decision I disagree with. But it’s odd to me that so many here think that’s a killer argument against Trump, when Clinton and Sanders are likely to be just as bad on that very issue, if not worse. It’s like saying: “Trump is terrible because he won’t privatize Social Security, so I’m considering voting for Clinton or Sanders.”

        (And, of course, who is more likely to appoint justices who don’t respect private property? Trump, or Clinton/Sanders?)

        1. Im not comparing him to Clinton/Sanders but to Josnson/McAfee.

          1. I am restricting my analysis to people with a possibility of actually winning the election.

          2. Gary Johnson is more anti-liberty than Trump. He’s not going to be the LP nominee again.

          3. Gary “bake that Nazis cake!” Johnson isn’t coming off too well either

      2. The sport of kings is the SIV.

        “Let the chickens fight”

    2. Trump’s opponents, for the moment, are Cruz and Kasich. So, no. He is the Nikki of the GOP primary.

    3. What’s your problem with immigration? The U.S. wouldn’t be a success without it. You don’t think outlawing immigration enforces the idea of a police state? You’re holding a prejudice and think your government holding the same prejudice somehow makes you in control of this nation. You’re acting like a sheep.

      But hey, vote for Trump. The strong, tall man will kill the religious and retain power for the nationalists. Then we’ll find another quality that minorities carry in order for us to have the homogenous society we libertarians so deeply desire.

      Have you ever met a Muslim in your life, you idiot?

      1. Also, you have never been in war. So don’t advocate it. I dare you to join the military and involve yourself in bombing these middle eastern people. They record tapes of their jobs, you can see the gibs. I dare you to accept that on your conscience. Those soldiers are soldiers because the leaders forced them to be. They can’t get real jobs.

        Do you think every nazi soldier believed in Nazi philosophy? Or maybe it was a “live on or choose to starve” instead situation? The problem is the people at the top, not the lemmings…. idiot.

      2. You don’t think outlawing immigration enforces the idea of a police state?

        Since this a straw man there’s not much need to address the rest. Address the actual argument.

        1. “Straw man”, yeah, nice buzz word. You should try using a different word if you want to be taken seriously. I can go on about how it’s as retarded as the time when everyone kept using “proactive”, but here’s what I’m addressing:

          “B-b-b-but he’s the only candidate who addresses the downsides of mass illegal immigration and Muslim immigration.”

          Yet he hasn’t, illegal immigration doesn’t increase crime rate… other than the fact that they came here.

          http://www.cato.org/blog/immig…..earch-says

          Here’s your research all prettied up for you, which you should be thanking CATO for, having to spend all the money they do just to clarify that these retarded viewpoints are wrong. Why!? Why do they have to go to such amazing lengths just to prove the point that maybe freedom is a good thing? Maybe if you’re that scared, you should invest in private security instead of having ME pay for your cowardly ass. If there’s a draft, I have to go to war. If there’s a threat, I have to pay for it. Go fuck yourself.

          I live in San Diego, the place where whities can’t understand why there’s so many Mexicans. I’ve slept in streets, caused harmless trouble, even hung out with illegals… I look primarily white… how am I still alive? Where’s the strawman in that?

          So why are you mad? Because not all of them pay the retarded taxes you’re forced to pay?

          1. A point I forgot to mention is that, regardless of what you think, immigrants are still going to find a way to come in, we’re going to waste all our money on border patrol if Trump is in office. Our government is going to help fund more money to the drug cartels if Trump is in office. Only 10 billion for the wall and that’s it… so they say…

            Thx, Papaya, as long as it makes you feel more safe… I’ll have to pay up.

            1. I judged too quick and misread Papaya’s post, but the previous replies I made are the reasons I don’t knock Reason for writing this article.

    1. It’s beyond hilarious that you linked the exact same article that Mongoloid Bob up there posted. With the same complete lack of self-awareness.

      1. Wow, you have a low bar for “beyond hilarious.” So I didn’t read all the comments before I posted. Sue me.

        1. No, what’s hilarious is you taking that article seriously, when it’s clearly crazy

          1. I found it a bit flip, with various arguable points, but far from “crazy.”

    2. Sounds like a bunch of fucking losers.

      Here’s a hint to anyone, free of charge: if you find yourself in a political classification that can’t seem to shake associations with white supremacists, maybe it’s time to run away.

      1. What about if you find yourself in the “political classification” associated with 100 million deaths? Are you running, Tony?

        1. I’m not in the Bernie camp.

      2. Holy shit, Tony’s back? How is universal love and acceptance these days, Tony?

        1. Yeah I’ve had bigger, more socialist fish to fry lately.

          1. “Socialist” is the “political classification” you are in, then. Own it.

      3. Here’s a hint to anyone, free of charge: if you find yourself in a political classification that can’t seem to shake associations with white supremacists, maybe it’s time to run away.

        Another tip: If you’re being called racist by a Leftist, most likely you’re doing something right.

  26. Serious… and I mean serious question… is the alt-right anything like alt-country?

    1. I don’t know what either of those things are. Is Alt-Country another way of saying shitty Country?

      1. A little bit country, a little bit rock and roll, a little bit batshit insane.

      2. Basically alt-Country seems to be made up of washed up rock stars who couldn’t sell records to rock fans anymore (since rock is kinda dead) and so tried the country thing.

        George Thorogood and Hootie from the Blowfish (Darius Rucker) come to mind.

        1. no. Alt-country is country not made by mainstream Nashville . Like Old Crow Medicine Show or Drive By Truckers

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MC0HNPiy18

          1. That’s Dylanesce

  27. Isn’t this just popular historical nonsense? The dark ages weren’t “dark” and much of modern Western culture was born from them, particularly the liberal/libertarian conception of liberty.

    The fall of large Roman cities was only for the better, as many have noted, their only purpose after Rome was to collect taxes.

    1. The Dark Ages (also called Early Middle Ages) were pretty grim in Europe. After 1000 AD things stabilized, the weather warmed up, and the “High Middle Ages” began. That’s when the Greek and Roman scholarship was rediscovered and gradually transformed into Western Civilization.

      1. Relative to what?

      2. Grim compared to what? The Roman Empire was built on slavery and tribute. If you would rather be a well kept slave than a poor free man, then yes it would be pretty grim.

        1. The Roman Empire was built on not imposing cultural values on the lands they conquered and collecting low tax. Chattel slavery and forced labor is too inefficient for it to be the basis of a successful… tax collecting business (?) as they require some form of free trade to build wealth…

          High taxes and increased slavery led to the downfall.

          1. The Roman Empire was built on not imposing cultural values on the lands they conquered and collecting low tax.

            That’s a remarkably ignorant assessment of Roman history.

            High taxes and increased slavery led to the downfall

            Oh, bullshit. Rome’s most successful period took place when they were placing mass populations into chattel slavery, and it lasted for well over 500 years after the practice began. What ultimately took out the Western Roman empire was the fall of North Africa to the Vandals, which was the tax and grain spine for the northern side of the Mediterranean. The Eastern Roman side lasted all the way to 1453.

    2. Correct. The Dark Ages were thus named because the time period didn’t have much in the way of written record and were therefore ‘dark’ to modern historians. The end of the Roman empire was a time of great changes, many of them for the better. The balkanization of authority led to a greater marketplace of competing ideas.

      Libertarians should celebrate the ‘Dark Ages’ as the breakup of all powerful centralized authority led to much greater freedom and eventually, a much greater prosperity.

  28. “The sad! fact is that Trump adamantly rejects two of the most important legacies of the Enlightenment and Western society: free markets and freedom of the press.”

    Agreed. As do Hillary and Bernie. So let’s see some articles here about how these two miscreants are the enemies of western civilization.

  29. I don’t know how much of a racial bigot Trump actually is, but he’s definitely a sexist pig. He is, obviously, the candidate of the previously silent minority of actual racist bigots, who are pleased as punch that they think it’s now OK for them to speak their meth-addled little minds in public company. As for the gamergate-type losers or whatever who support him, I dunno, maybe they think he’s gonna lend them his giant dick to slap women across the face with. But the poor idiots will just end up being white men without a country. They could just join the Bernie cult. Similar demographics, slightly better vocabulary. Trump’s gonna skulk back to NYC like nothing happened, while every indication is that the Bernie crowd will be committing mass suicide upon his final concession speech. It’s an option is all I’m saying.

    1. I have this sudden urge to register just to vote Trump now.

      1. Once you go Trump you never go back

      2. The core driver of Trump’s success is that all the scumbags who are *actually* a threat to your freedom have hysterical pants shitting fits over him.

        1. The thought of Bernturds killing themselves en masse gives me a tingle.

    2. Since illegal aliens, Mexicans, and Muslims are not “races,” what exactly makes Trump a “racist”?

      1. He talks about black crime rates.

      2. This what flipping slays me; Islam is NOT a race. But bashing Christians all day long is totally cricket, because ya know, it’s written on the wall that it’s the white Christians we’re talking about.

  30. Protectionism was always the policy of the GOP from 19th Century until WW2. Not incompatible at all with “western values” or “classical liberalism” in USA. US had tariffs all though industrial revolution of 19th century. See also British Empire and mercantilism. The tariff was a major issue dividing North and South for a century.

    Progressive Left is major threat to free speech with speech codes, trigger warnings etc. Trump has done more to push back on that than any candidate in years but not being PC unlike rest of GOP and Dems

    1. Reactionary Moment is correct here.

    2. Not thrilled with Trump…not by a long shot, but I’ll keep my 1st amendment thank you very much. No one can tell me the proggies aren’t hell bent on taking and giving that freedom–as. they. so. choose. Hopefully the Trump/Sanders/Hillary freak show gets people really thinking about their basic flippin’ freedoms from government oppression.

    3. Forms of democracy, protectionism, and communism had already been implemented all over the world. The enlightenment, however, is what defined western value and classical liberalism which is the idea of individual liberty.

  31. I’ve been reading the alt-right for years and, at least for some of them, alt-left might be more fitting. Richard Spencer – who coined the term – seems to love public options (like for healthcare) and advocated for the nationalization of Twitter. He even touts that an outsider reading Radix for the first time wouldn’t know whether it was right or left.

    1. Yeah, a lot of them seem to be leftist in their economic sympathies who simply don’t pretend to like non-whites.

    2. I came to the conclusion years ago that they are people who vote democrat and don’t admit it.

  32. There are many terrible things about the Donald Trump, but this might be the weakest shot a journalist has taken. Not Western because he is against free trade? Sure it’s stupid and illiberal but for the great majority of Western Civ, protectionism was the norm. Trade wars didn’t often involve tariffs, most were actually armed conflicts.

    It would have been much easier to say Trump doesn’t respect any of the ideas of the Enlightenment which gave rise to the freedoms we have enjoyed for the last few hundred years. Trump doesn’t respect property rights. Trump doesn’t respect the rule of law. Trump believes might makes right. Trump would be a terrible interventionist and make the world unstable. All of those are true.

    But in order to make the slam against the alt-right, the author tried to tie ‘defenders of Western Civ’ to ‘racist’. Racism has been a much longer feature of Western Culture than Free Trade or Freedom of the Press. The Enlightenment gave us freedom and began to uproot racism in Western Civilization. That should be celebrated.

    This article was just a weak jab at the alt-right and the Donald, using Leftist tactics to tar someone as racist to undermine their legitimacy. Trump has no legitimacy to undermine. Try harder.

  33. I’ll tally a few off the grander lies. I don’t have all day. I’ll start with trade.

    Painting unbridled free trade as an American tradition is simply ahistorical. Tariffs were pretty damn high for the majority of US history.

    Trump is also totally opposed to free trade

    What Trump actually has to say about trade.

    However, for free trade to bring prosperity to America, it must also be fair trade. Our goal is not protectionism but accountability. America fully opened its markets to China but China has not reciprocated.

    Trump criticizes 10000 page managed trade deals where the US opens its market, but trading partners don’t reciprocate.

    Sounds like he wants to negotiate *freer* trade. Not exactly being “totally opposed” to free trade, eh?

    Seems more the case that Soave is *totally opposed* to Trump, and like a good little Progressive, is simply indifferent to the truth when it comes to attacking him.

    If you actually look at his trade reform plan with respect China, you’d see an argument for freer trade with freer peoples.
    Trump’s position on trade with China.

    Reason, by contrast, calls it free trade when you trade with slave states like Cuba. As long as you keep your slave offshore, everything is hunky dory with Reason.

    1. We shall remain in slavery until all other slaves are first freed.

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  35. Next lie:

    His staffers assault journalists.

    No. *One* staffer restrained someone who breached a Secrete Service security cordon around Trump, after that person was twice warned by the Secret Service not to do so.

    The biggest nothing sandwich ever, yet #BecauseVagina, and #BecauseTrumpIsWorseThanHitler, the lies and pants shitting hysteria continues.

    Note that Robby’s Hair is still linking to it’s own article with headline:

    Witnesses say Corey Lewandowski “forcibly yanked” Fields, “nearly bringing her down to the ground.”

    Even after it is *known* by video evidence that this claim about “nearly bringing her to the ground” is complete bullshit. Just didn’t happen.

    1. I have not looked deeply into this supposedly terrible incident, but to me it looks like she was grabbed on her upper arm, but the photo of the bruise she showed is on her lower arm…?

      1. I can’t actually *see* a grab, but given the relative motion of both, where the arms and hands seemed to be, and what I infer his likely motivations to be, I think it’s likely he did grab her arm.

        Ans I’m fine with with just stipulating that he grabbed her lower arm and made a bruise, because that is *still* a complete nothing sandwich. If this weren’t Trump and a female reporter, absolutely no one would give a shit about a little bruisey woosey on a reporter’s arm from being restrained from breaching a Secret Service security cordon.

        If you want to look, the best video seems to be the overhead Trump security video.

        1. It’s not a nothing sandwich. It’s battery, if CL did what the young reporter and witnesses alleged he did.

          Don’t turn CL into some hero trying to defend Donald Trump. He’s the campaign manager. Trump had his own body guard plus the secret service there in the room. The journalists all have to be cleared before being allowed in the room. The secret service are constantly assessing threats and did not believe she was one. And if he was in fact protecting the Donald, why didn’t he say that when he sent out his initial tweets? Instead, he denied the whole incident and even meeting her.

          1. The secret service are constantly assessing threats and did not believe she was one.

            The Donald says she was warned twice to back off by the Secret Service.

            Have you actually seen a quote from the Secret Service with someone saying that “they did not believe she was a threat”, or are you merely inferring this from the fact that they didn’t restrain her at that point?

            He’s the campaign manager.

            His job is to manage, I expect including security. I would expect him to take responsibility for that security, and take actions he deems appropriate, like keeping people from Trump. He’s not the janitor either, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him pick up a piece of trash and throw it away. As campaign manager, he’d do what was necessary if he was in a position to do it.

            Nothing sandwich.

      2. CL grabbed her arm and apparently left bruises on her forearm. At first he denied that he even met her, let alone touched her. When video evidence was later released he revised his story in such a way as to make it look as though he was just protecting the Donald from this young twenty eight year old journalist.

        We’ll see where all this ends up legally. He turned himself in to the police and now has a court date. The young lady journalist has been released from Breitbart, her former employer, and has received multiple death threats from a few Trump supporters. The whole thing is pretty ugly.

        1. He was told – “hey, you almost dragged some woman to the ground”, to which he responded “bullshit”. He knew *that* didn’t happen.

          What actually happened was a complete non event. Why would he have remembered it?

          He revised his story likely after reviewing the video evidence. She’s trying to grab Trump, she’s where she shouldn’t be, ya, I may have restrained her. I should have.

          A gigantic nothing sandwich.

          The young lady journalist has been released from Breitbart

          She *quit*, and they didn’t try to keep her in chains in the basement. Do you see how you tried to spin her quitting into something they did to her?

          Of course the death threats against her are ugly, as are the death threats against Trump, as are the ocean of lies and slander the media have hurled at Trump to deceive the American people, with Robby’s Hair being a leader in dishonest pants shitting hysteria.

  36. The fact that much of the alt-right is ignorant of the Western tradition was made clear to me by those who insist that Hispanic immigrants are culturally “non-Western” and “non-European.” They are apparently unaware that “Hispanic” refers to the linguistic and cultural influence of Spain, which is in?anyone? anyone??Western Europe.

    Western Europe is freer than the Middle East, the Far East, Russia, Africa, and Latin American But the point is not the zip code, but a political culture of Liberty. Spain is not that high on the list for historically Free societies, and Latin American countries are even lower on that list.

    Argue with that if you like. Argue that Spain is the fount of Liberty for the world. Argue that Mexico has a political culture of Liberty greater than the US, so that importing millions of Mexicans will make the US a freer country. Argue that importing millions more net voters for the Progressive Theocracy will make the US a freer country.

    If Reason wasn’t just turning into HuffPo, if Reason actually tried to be true to it’s name, it would try to make such a *reasoned* argument, instead of just shrieking “Racist! Racist! Racist!” against those opposed to mass Mexican immigration.

    1. Some parts of Latin America have strong tradition of liberty. Uruguay for example whose national motto is “Libertad o Muerte” and is a secular state. It is ranked freer on many measures than USA.

      1. That is great news for Uruguay. I’d want to know more, but If I were determining immigration policy, that would bump them up my list of desirable locales to accept immigrants from. Perhaps above even the usual suspects in the British/Scandanavian derived Liberty Club. If there are separate roots of Liberty in the world, that would be a diversity actually worth having.

        I’d also want to see that they have the skills to be productive in a modern economy. People who want to be free who won’t be a burden on current Americans, but will contribute to their prosperity.

        Madison concisely set my preferred immigration policy at the Constitutional Convention:

        He wished to invite foreigners of merit & republican principles among us.

        Works for me.

        Madison’s notes on the Constitutional Convention, Tuesday August 13, 1787

        1. Uruguay economically could definately be more free but it does have strong tradition of property rights, rule of law and has no restriction of any kind on foreign investments. I actually live here most of the year and own and manage vacation rentals. It has open immigration if you can show income to support yourself.
          On Personal freedom is ranked #2 in the world after Netherlands by this Index
          Freedom Index

          1. Thanks. Good to know. I’ve got a friend who has expressed interest in moving abroad. Sounds like a good place to consider. I’ll pass it on.

      2. I got their sun tattooed on me. Revolution from the spaniards, baby.

  37. A man cannot portray himself as the defender of the Enlightenment, modern Western civilization, and classical liberalism if he is desperate to undo its crowning achievements.

    Good for him! Nothing would cheer me so much as looking out my window and seeing an Enlightened? corpse swinging from every lamppost!

    I agree with The Federalist’s Robert Tracinski, who writes that members of the so-called alt-right?Trump’s online fanbase?”are just a bunch of racists”

    That may be true – but calling them racists is not a proof that they’re wrong. I can’t imagine a more entertaining evening than watching one of Reason’s equalists debating someone like Jared Taylor or Sean Last. Picture hair all over the walls and file under Things You’ll Never See.

    The fact that much of the alt-right is ignorant of the Western tradition was made clear to me by those who insist that Hispanic immigrants are culturally “non-Western” and “non-European.” They are apparently unaware that “Hispanic” refers to the linguistic and cultural influence of Spain, which is in?anyone? anyone??Western Europe.

    Actually, they’re very aware of that. They aren’t complaining about white Spaniards immigrating from Europe (as if there were any). They’re complaining about Mestizos immigrating from Mexico and Central America, a distinction they’re quite capable of discerning. Notice the lack of a site to back up the statement.

    1. Interestingly, easily 2/3rds of the alt-right is composed of former libertarians. Not a few of the posters at therightstuff.biz and /pol/ (including the founder of the infamous “Coon Town” forum) are posters I recognize from Hit and Run a decade ago.

      If you’re going to refer to them as “ignorant” now, what should you have called them when they were libertarians 10 years ago? Does libertarianism have some enstupidating quality that magically transforms the “Enlightened and Tolerant” to the “Ignorant and Barbaric”?

      Aren’t you the least bit curious as to why a fairly large number of people who have forgotten more about libertarianism than the Reason editorial staff will ever know are now numbered among the alt-right? Especially when you never see a former alt-rightest convert to libertarianism.

      1. Moldbug was an anarchocapitalist.

        Much of the alt-right are libertarians who looked around and saw Liberty *losing* in the US. Noticed that the government of “delegated and enumerated powers” turned into an infinitely expanding Leviathan. Noticed that democratic representation and rule of law are simply a joke in the face of an unaccountable and arbitrary Apparatchik State.

        Did no one else read Charles Murray’s latest “By the People: Rebuilding Liberty Without Permission”, where he details how democracy, constitutionalism, and rule of law are dead letters in the US?

        Many Libertarians see that “it aint working”, and are asking “What now?” The Establishment says more of the same. The Alt+Right says “that aint working, we need to try something new”.

        Even if you don’t want “something new” what obviously aint a solution, and will likely screw us permanently, is importing millions more net voters for the Apparatchik State. Get that wrong, and it’s game over. Reason can shriek “Racist!” all they want, but that’s just not an argument against the proposition.

      2. Interestingly, easily 2/3rds of the alt-right is composed of former libertarians.

        It is mathematically impossible for that to be true.

  38. Why is this thread composed of 90% retards (of varying and often conflicting positions)?

  39. I don’t hate t. rump, I pity him, just like I pity all delusional people. Born on home plate, he’s is convinced that he hit a grand slam home run. The truth is is, without daddy’s inheritance, he’d be a used car salesman in Yonkers.

    1. you are speculating foolishly.

      The only way to judge a man is by how his close associates view him.

      Have we heard any of those associates speak ill? I haven’t, and wouldn’t you expect dirt to have come up by now?
      It means his friends are loyal….all of them. It means his close employees are loyal…..all of them.
      that tells me all I need to know about his character.

      He isn’t delusional, he isn’t a loser, he isn’t a spoiled rich kid. If he were his associates would be spilling it.

      Argue his policies, argue his platform, argue his style. But the man is deserving of professional respect. He has successful offspring, has done more in life than most, and has the drive and energy at 65 to run for effin POTUS. Friggin more than the other losers have done.

  40. This should replace “Free Minds and Free Markets” on the masthead.

    Need more reasons to hate Trump? We’ve got you covered.

  41. “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.” -Emma Goldman.1869 ? 1940.

    Elections are “an advance auction of stolen goods.” H.L. Mencken

    Bottom line: It really makes no difference which clown gets elected, the deep state will carry on exactly as before.

    In other words:” New boss same as the old boss” as Pete Townsend once said.

    Or, “Dream On”?:

    “……In your dream, Donald Trump is not a fraud,
    In your dream, Sanders is not a fraud,
    In your dream, all the rest are not frauds,
    In your dream, Obama is not a fraud,
    In your dream, Reagan was not a fraud,
    In your dream, all the rest were not frauds,

    In your dream, the constitution was not a scam,
    In your dream, the Supreme court is not a scam,
    In your dream, 9/11 was not a scam”
    In your dreams, the war on terror is not a scam,
    In your dream, al -qaeda was not a scam,
    In your dream I.S.I.S. is not a scam”

    Lyrics excerpted from “Dreams [Anarchist Blues]”:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXtoUtXrTU

    Regards, onebornfree
    Financial safety &Personal; freedom consulting:
    onebornfreeatyhoodotcom

  42. Slam Dunky stone monkey is not going to like that at all.

    http://www.Web-Privacy.tk

  43. Did it ever occur to you geniuses that you may be just as brainwashed about free trade theory as the lefties are about climate change theory? And that the science for neither has really been settled?

    1. Almost everyone who spouts about “free trade”, knows almost nothing about “free trade” and/or the historic lack of that every existing.

  44. The Federalist isn’t much more than a hangout for nativist wack-jobs.

  45. So basically what you’re saying is, is that you should be able to buy a lot in Beverly Hills and you should be able to tow a double wide trailer to it and live in the trailer without regard to how it affects anybody else in Beverly Hills. Because it’s cheaper and government shouldn’t tell you that you have to landscape and use stone and use all kinds of expensive building materials on the place you’re going to live in. Right?

    And then if everybody else started towing their trailers to their lots in Beverly Hills what happens? There is no more Beverly Hills.

    That, in a nutshell, is free trade. Or more specifically, that’s how free trade on a not level playing field has been panning out for the American worker. People are effectively towing their Chinese trailers to their lots in Beverly Hills and turning it into a slum in the process.

    1. So free trade and communism end up pretty much at the same place.

    2. Much better to have government put a gun against everyone’s head and control how people dispose of the product of their labor.

      The opposite of Free Trade is authoritarianism. Got it.

  46. Trump is a corrupt bully who I suspect isn’t all that bright. If he is elected things won’t change because he is the system.

    1. yeh…he is brighter than you, cupcake. to imagine that someone not in the upper fraction of the evolutionary bellcurve can be successful on the national stage is simply delusional. I friggin test in at the 99.9th percentile as I expect many do around here, but I know that I sure as hell couldn’t do as well as Trump is.
      Hate him for his policies, but don’t act like he ain’t friggin skilled.

  47. The article seems to be, other than the bombast, nothing but straw men. Free trade: Tariffs have always been part of western civilization. The wall: National borders have always been a part of western civilization. Free press: Lies and libel have always been actionable.

    & to make sure he didn’t miss anything the author of course brought in the “R”-word, by simple definition, no need for nor any room for argument, anyone who supports Trump or even refuses to loudly denounce him must be racist!!

    1. yes, that.

      Controlled trade has defined the success of western civilization. Free trade never existed on any appreciable scale.
      Hard to have free trade with another party who wants to rape you….e.g. China, Russia, France, etc.
      Free press is already free. It’s a lie perpetuated by them that they can say whatever they want. Freedom of speech was intended for open discussion of political idea. Not to spread lies. Sue them when they do….these are for-profit corporations.

      And I can’t believe anyone would argue against building a friggin wall and/or minefield to protect our national border from 10million invaders. They aren’t an army, but they came to pillage what they could for their own personal benefit. Wall or amnesty…..there is no middle ground. Kick them out, or make them take the oath. I personally don’t give a frack which it is, but only morons and traitors pretend that there is any other solution.

      1. Hard to have free trade with another party who wants to rape you….e.g. China, Russia, France, etc.

        Would that be “rape-rape”?

        1. hmm. good question.

          I think since those in charge seem to be drunk, it’s probably more like date-rape.

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  49. The same way that Trump is a creation of the failure of the GOP, the alt-right is a result of the failure of libertarianism. FRee trade, for example, only works when it is ACTUALLY free. When it is free trade on one side and not the other, it is simply victim trade. Arguing with Libertarians from the alt-right feels EXACTLY the same way that arguing with anarchists from libertarianism felt 20 years ago. Yes, you have a marvelous theory that has UTTERLY failed in practice.

    Our constitutional republic was never intended to govern an immoral and uneducated people, and by golly, it turns out that it won’t.

  50. The best trade policy would be to eliminate all quotas and subsidies and tariffs (except, perhaps, for a low revenue tariff that replaces the income tax), regardless of the trade policies of other nations.

    Trade protectionism is government intervention, so one might as well take the position to the logical conclusion, and have Big Mommy Government tell us all how to arrange our economic affairs.

  51. Vox Day sums up the faults in this article nicely…

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/201…..right.html

  52. Mr. Soave, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent essay were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  53. This is my first time commenting here, and I have a question. Is Reason a progressive/leftist magazine?

    Thanks

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  57. Free trade is not one of the “crowning achievements” of western civilization…in fact Free Trade and open boarders have never actually been tried in any western nation.

    no American president has ever favored unrestricted trade across national borders.

    No european nation allows free speech…neither does Canada. They all jail people who have politically incorrect speech and in the United States our politicians imposed laws to restrict free speech before elections.

    The alt-right may be wrong about Trump, but they believe that allowing millions of non-europeans into America will change our culture. This is why they support Trump.

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