Whose Fault Is It CIA Weren't Interviewed for Torture Report?
Part of the CIA's response to today's Senate torture report is to claim that none of them were interviewed for the study. Former CIA officials George Tenet, Porter Goss, Michael Hayden, John McLaughlin and Albert McCalland teamed up to claim that the CIA's interrogation methods save lives in an op-ed piece at The Wall Street Journal. Here's how they describe what went down, or failed to go down:
Astonishingly, the staff avoided interviewing any of us who had been involved in establishing or running the program, the first time a supposedly comprehensive Senate Select Committee on Intelligence study has been carried out in this way.
The excuse given by majority senators is that CIA officers were under investigation by the Justice Department and therefore could not be made available. This is nonsense. The investigations referred to were completed in 2011 and 2012 and applied only to certain officers. They never applied to six former CIA directors and deputy directors, all of whom could have added firsthand truth to the study. Yet a press account indicates that the committee staff did see fit to interview at least one attorney for a terrorist at Guantanamo Bay.
We can only conclude that the committee members or staff did not want to risk having to deal with data that did not fit their construct. Which is another reason why the study is so flawed.
But what the report actually says in a footnote is very different. The report claims that the CIA told them they would not "compel" CIA employees to cooperate with interviews due to the Department of Justice investigations. Here's the footnote below:
So who to believe, here? It's helpful to look at a previous spat between the CIA and Senate Intelligence Chairman Dianne Feinstein for some guidance. Way back in the spring there was a big fight between the two of them where Feinstein accused the CIA of snooping on Senate staffers who were preparing this report. Though the CIA denied it, they eventually had to eat their words. It turned out to be true. They had secretly searched the computers the Senate staffers were using to prepare the report and removed many documents.
According to Feinstein, the big point of conflict was that the Senate staff had somehow gotten access to the CIA's own internal evaluation of its interrogation practices. Known as the Panetta Review (after then CIA Director Leon Panetta), the report came to some critical conclusions that matched the Senate's conclusions. The CIA did not want the Senate to have access to the report, which Feinstein claims contradicts some of their defenses of their interrogation. The surveillance scandal revolved around access to this internal report.
So if the CIA engaged in secret surveillance against the Senate staff because it didn't want them to have access to its own interviews with its own employees and its own analysis, perhaps we should greet with skepticism any claims that they would have been more than happy to sit down for a chat for this report.
The site former CIA officials set up to defend their interrogation practices is now live. Behold CIASavedLives.com.
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Bush's, obviously.
...where Feinstein accused the CIA of snooping on Senate staffers who were preparing this report.
Still cracks me up.
Limbaugh was criticizing the report today, and I heard McConnell condemning it as well. Why in the world would Republicans and conservatives take the bait like that? They just won an election impressively, why jump into this old fight which beckons back to when Obama took a popular position? Does their base really want this so badly?
They can't help it. First past the post elections are a zero-sum competition, so everything in politics tends to be viewed the same way. Therefore, anything that hurts the opponent is good for your side. Also, McConnell is the leader of the Stupid Party faction of the GOP.
Hey, you got to EARN that Party of Stupid moniker, they don't just give those out arbitrarily.
A sensible GOP party would say, yes, it's completely ridiculous, evil and expensive, and it's still been going on for the past five years too. Which is why you'll never hear that.
At the least they could just say 'these things happened in the past, we're focused on today' or something like that and get back to reminding people that their ACA taxes will be due soon.
"[We] need to get back to work for the American people."
Hell, that's what Obama himself said when questioned about a legal inquiry.
Limbaugh and various other kool-aid drinkers want the rubes to believe that a magic fairy dust is ever being sprinkled over CIA, military, police departments and other similar bureaucracies, protection from acting similar to the IRS, EPA, etc.
His main line was that this was a case of liberals apologizing for the actions of our nation.
I have yet to hear anyone say I'm sorry.
You only hear people say they're sorry under two conditions.
1. They're actually sorry
2. They need to pretend to be sorry as a way to prevent personal harm.
None of these people are sorry - not for a single thing they've ever done.
None of them face any negative consequences and so don't feel the need to prostrate themselves in the hope that a submissive posture will deter wrath.
Limbaugh was criticizing the report today
Jeebus, he must be a fast reader. It's almost as if he had his mind made up before it came out.
Wait, what? Am I reading this right? The CIA said it couldn't order personnel to comply with a subpoena of Congress?
They're the Goldman Sachs of government agencies.
I thought that was Goldman Sachs.
Were they actually subpoena'd or were interviews just requested?
Way I read that piece is that 'CIA would not compel anyone to participate.
That wording says "I'll protect/observe my people's 5th amendment rights (and conveniently hide behind them)".
That didn't preclude the committee from subpoenaing anyone directly or even just asking some of the former directors to participate. Sounds like gamesmenship on both sides to me.
I could tell you whose fault it was, but then I'd have to...
Aww, you know. So don't ask.
Who to believe? It's a fuckin' snakepit, so should we try and pick out the good ones or just set it on fire then bury them all?
*Seconding FoE. It was fun and satisfying watching them try to eat each other.
Hearing the CIA -- whose waged a war of leaks against the Bush administration cry that the Democrats fucked them is kind of nice.
I'm pretty sure it was the CIA that raped Jackie.
It was interrogation training.
Lena Dunham, too.
That was to toughen up the CIA operatives.
That story is bizarre. Does identifiable Barry have recourse?
Oh yes, and it looks like Random House is damned nervous about it.
Settlement: In lieu of damages, Lena Dunham has to sign an agreement to stop getting naked on Girls.
According to Volokh, there's a decent chance.
Note that today Random House has declared that Barry is a fake name (seems suspiciously late), which Volokh tears into them for. He says near the end:
I'm not certain which party he means the case is easier for, though I think he means for Barry, as AFAIK saying "sorry for the mixup" several weeks later doesn't make a defamation claim go away, but IANAL and whatnot.
Why would Lena Dunham rape Jackie?
Unless, of course, Jackie is really Lena's younger sister! It all makes sense now!
You used to write soap opera scripts, didn't you?
Damn straight. And I was well on my way to an ambassadorship, too!
I see Cyto hasn't started "dominating" this thread, yet.
He's too busy winning a racquetball tournament while blindfolded.
I hear he killed his sensei in a duel and he never said why.
Possibly how Cyto envisions himself entering these threads
"You must have the will of the warrior. Haha! You lose!"
"Rematch? You lose again! Had enough? I thought so!"
In his own mind, he already has.
Don't worry, he'll come along, declare victory, accept your non-existent surrender, and it will all be in his head. Isn't that fun? I wish I could reshape reality through the sheer force of my will. And I'm supposed to be able to!
I KNEW IT. I am so siccing my neo-chimps and neo-dolphins on you.
Bring it on! I have orca gene spliced in!
Man, I haven't read Startide Rising in years and years.
Episiarchs are shaggy, with locks of thick hair covering their entire body, obscuring its shape. The head and abdomen are compacted, with two legs emerging from the bottom. The cranium has been greatly enlarged to accomadate its raw psi abilities.
So... dwarf wookie?
Isn't that an Ewok?
Thems fightin' words!
I was trying not to make him run and hide.
I notice John is absent. Vacation or did the CIA disappear him?
Or one of the rare occasions where he has to work all day.
Cyto or Cytotoxic? I think they are different.
Really? I was referring to Cytotoxic. In my ignorance, I did not realize there might be another "Cyto."
There is another poster who goes by "Cyto." He's not as prolific, but he shows up now and again. It's confusing sometimes.
I still stand by my comment from a few stories down - obstruct your Inspector general, and you know what you were doing is not right.
End of case.
The CIA saved lives, and only had to sacrifice CSS to do it.
Cascading stylesheets?
Confederate States Ship(s)?
Confederate Space Ship. I see, it's alt-Trek.
Combat Service Support?
Cansei de Ser Sexy?
ProL had it. Am I the only one that clicked on the actual page?
One thing I've never understood about Republicans, even most of the conservative groups, is how they can be(rightly) skeptical of all things government unless it involves cops, military, or spooks. Damn frustrating.
Yes, I was grumbling about that last night when Hugh Hewitt kept telling me on my commute how releasing this report would endanger Americans. I rather think using torture in the first place does that, if anything does. In any case, we have a right to know what's going on. Directly and through our representatives, neither of which has been happening.
What the average citizen is too dense to understand is that 99% of the time, the secrecy is so that Americans won't find out something, not our "enemies." Exhibit one for this is Bradley Manning's revelations.
This is exactly what I was pissed off about. Yes, it's bad that our enemies will know this bad thing about us, but it's far worse that we don't know what's being done in our name.
Assume the worst. Your worst thoughts don't even come close to how sick the government actually operates.
How long until CIACoveredAsses.com appears?
When you have a government of lies, you can't believe anything any of them say. Why should we believe the biggest drug cartel in the world? Why should we believe a report done by the commiecrats for a grubered public?
The Hawks started slow...now they are killing it. 9-1 in their last 10.
Patrick Sharp comes back tonight too.
Nice to see them do so well without Sharp. He'll be the next one to get shipped out next off-season, if not before.
Those type of games make me wish the NHL used the big, international ice rinks.