A.M. Links: Hagel Curious About Former Nuke Officers, Biker Cops Go Wild, LAPD Sued Over License Plate Tracking

• 

  Paulus

  Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel wants to know a little bit more about those 17 Air Force officers stripped of responsibility for (potentially) blowing up the planet.

• Tamerlan Tsarnaev's widow hired a lawyer with experience defending terrorism suspects. Probably a wise move.
• The E-Verify system for checking job applicants' immigration status turns the business of making a living into a government-granted privilege, warns the ACLU.
• A bar brawl in Prescott, Arizona, involved a biker gang — of cops.
• Israel is back to the business of building settlements on the West Bank.
• The LAPD faces a lawsuit over its use of license plate recognition technology to track the movements of people who aren't suspected of any crimes. But aren't all of us guilty of something?
• There have been 78,000 applicants so far for a planned private one-way trip to colonize Mars. Frankly, that sounds like a better idea every day.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

A bar brawl in Prescott, Arizona, involved a biker gang ? of cops.

People don't want them busting heads while wearing the badge, people don't want them busting heads while wearing patches. MAKE UP YOU MINDS, CIVILIANS.

[UnCivilServant]

There seems to be a commonality of "People don't want them busting heads". naaah, can't be that.

[Slammer]

+1 Wooden Shampoo

[Rasilio]

Having been to Prescott Az I am honestly surprised this is an issue, the entire town seems to be dedicated to it's Whiskey Row saloons reliving the old west.

[Bobarian]

No shit! That's why my uncle retired there.

[Stormy Dragon]

I keep thinking the police have become little more than a legalized gang, and now it's literally true!

[Bee Tagger]

There have been 78,000 applicants so far for a planned private one-way trip to colonize Mars.

Not enough for the White House to respond, though.

[sarcasmic]

I had that on yesterday's links. Do I get a hat tip? Of course not. =-(

[Fist of Etiquette]

Maybe you'll have better luck on http://reason.mar/blog.

[Auric Demonocles]

Somebody else linked it last week too. Or maybe it was even during the first week they were accepting applications. There were 20,000 at that point.

[Bee Tagger]

J.D. is presumably inside right now filing these links. What kind of monster wears a hat indoors?

[DontShootMe]

What difference, at this point, does it make?

[UnCivilServant]

"There is no evidence of Martian colonization that the government is aware of" - the White House.

[LTC(ret) John]

+1 plausible deniability

[Fist of Etiquette]

There have been 78,000 applicants so far for a planned private one-way trip to colonize Mars.

Get your ass to Mars!

[PS]

Well, FoE, I've got to hand it to you. It's the best mind-fuck yet.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Get ready for a surprise!

[mr simple]

Two weeks.

[invisible furry hand]

Relax, an alien invasion is highly unlikely

[Rich]

OTOH, Korhonen acknowledges his evaluation may not account for all possible dispositions or motivations of an attacking civilization.

[Auric Demonocles]

As much as I am enjoying Falling Skies, if they did decide to invade it wouldn't be a battle. The only thing that Battlefield Earth managed to get right is that the initial invasion by an interstellar species only took a single digit number of minutes.

[Rich]

Exactly.

"You call *that* a 'thermonuclear weapon'?!"

[Auric Demonocles]

It's possible that nukes would still be an effective explosive to their ships. But you'd never be able to get it there.

[Virginian]

Yep. Who holds the orbitals, holds the planet.

John Ringo's Schlock Mercenary inspired trilogy is a pretty cool take on what interstellar combat could look like. Starts with Live Free or Die.

[Auric Demonocles]

One thing I liked about the Halo universe is that the reason the incredibly powerful fighters called Hunters are part of the Covenant is that when the Covenant realized how poorly a ground invasion would work they said "Join us or we'll bomb you from orbit until nothing is alive."

[Agammamon]

Actually - heat dissapation and the whole "no stealth in space" means that a planet-bound attacker has the advantage, at least when dealing with near equal technology levels. We can hide our weapons and dissapate a much larger amount of heat.

On the other hand, the real problem for us is that anyone who can cross interstellar gulfs has probably got some pretty powerful and efficient reaction drives. Then its just a matter of pointing your stern at the planet and gently thrusting until everything is dead.

On the gripping hand - anyone who's developed a decent FTL drive probably won't spend a lot of resources developing and fitting their ships out with that sort of reaction drive.

[Rasilio]

Not necessarily. True in most alien invasion movies it would have been the case but there are ways of envisioning it happening that would make the fight interesing.

In the normal case where there are aliens significantly more technologically advanced than us there would never be an invasion, they'd kidnap a handful of humans experiement to learn our DNA, develop a biological weapon that can exterminate our species in a few days while remaining harmless to them then disperse it in the atmosphere. Boom, war over and we never even knew they were here.

However if you can somehow imagine a situation where they are not that much more advanced than us then it makes sense.

Take for example Footfall by Niven and Pournelle, You have an alien race which is the second sentient species on their homeworld and developed sentience after the first killed themselves off in some form of biological war. As a result of the left over technologies the Fthip as they are called advance very rapidly but as a result only learn those technologies left behind by their predecessors. Their very first interstellar trip is the invasion of earth because having picked up radio signals from us they know a habitable planet resides here. This sets up a situation where once they get here their technology is more advanced than ours in some areas but their knowledge of the basic science behind it is complete and in other areas they are actually behind us

[robc]

Also, boom boom.

No one expects Orion!

[PapayaSF]

Harry Turtledove's Worldwar series is a great example. The lizard-like aliens have the tech to get here, but only because their civilization is 100,000 years old. They are so tradition-bound and hierarchical that they progress very slowly. Their recon ship discovers Earth in the Middle Ages and figures men on horseback will be easy to conquer. No war fleet needed, just send the colonization fleet with minimal weapons. But the colonization fleet arrives during WWII, and they are stunned: how could these humans have developed firearms and radio and aircraft in a mere 500 years? So the conflict is pretty evenly matched.

[Tim]

Look, if you have the technology to go interstellar, there's nothing here you would need to steal. Nobody sends a nuclear submarine to the south pacific to gather coconuts.

[Rich]

What about our wimminz?!

[Auric Demonocles]

Only two boobs? Lame.

[Auric Demonocles]

The only thing you might want to steal is the planet itself. Any individual material is easier, cheaper, and more abundant to get elsewhere.

[Tim]

Most likely any advanced aliens have shed bodies for machines, which means they can inhabit virtually any real estate in the universe, or a Matrix style cyberworld. Not to mention that for immortal beings, the most dangerous thing they can possibly do is start poking around space and fighting wars. because the law of large numbers means that sooner or later something bigger and badder will find them. Galactic Imperialism is a non-starter.

[db]

"Would you put your brain into a robot body?"

[Auric Demonocles]

Yeah, I certainly agree that some percentage of advanced civilizations will do this, but I think saying "all" aliens will do something is going to lead you to the wrong conclusion every time.

[LTC(ret) John]

Of course you would say that, puny human!

/Ming the Merciless

[CE]

Galactic Imperialism is a non-starter.

Not if you're the Klingons.

[Bobarian]

THis-- Our eco-system and sunny beaches might look great to SPACE VIKINGS.

[Stormy Dragon]

Yeah, but there's millions, if not billions, of planets out there. Why waste the extra resources fighting over an inhabited planet when there's probably plenty of uninhabited ones you can just take without a fight?

[Auric Demonocles]

You probably wouldn't, but if you do it's likely because you require a specific ecosystem for the planet to be useful to you as a colonization without terraforming option.

[Agammamon]

Except that any alien ecosystem is either going to be completely useless to you are incredibly hostile.

The only reason things seem here seem mild to us is that we've had umpteen billion years to co-evolve alongside the incredible numbner of things that try to eat us regularly.

Think about E Coli - normally a benign gut bacteria, but get it in a different part of your body and it'll try to kill you.

We exist easily in this ecology simply because the least of us is an incredible bad-arse descended from a long line of incredible bad-arses.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

That presumes earth was the goal rather than a source of resources along the way, doesn't it?

[UnCivilServant]

"We don't actually need to enslave your people, we just get so much enjoyment out of bossing lesser species around."

[dinkster]

The aliens are intergalactic tax revenue agents. Shudder

[db]

There is plenty more water, iron, gold, organic compounds, etc. in our solar system that is much easier to get at than going all the way to tge bottom of our gravity well to get it.

If we start seeing alien activity mining the moons of Saturn and Jupiter and running out of water, we might want to think about getting concerned.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Just because we aren't the low hanging fruit doesn't mean we aren't still fruit.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm not sure I see how it would be easier to get stuff here than in space. Unless they like our manufactured goods or something.

[CE]

Yeah, and they've had a long, long time to find us.

[Rasilio]

Yes but there are also advantages of having a biosphere which does not require machinery and work to operate

[Auric Demonocles]

If you're interstellar working in space is a challenge you've already solved.

[Rasilio]

Yes, but that does not make it the preferred option.

[Rasilio]

You're also assuming intestellar aliens who have FTL, if they sent a generation ship intent on colonizing then the earth itself would be the goal.

Hell it is not so hard to imagine an alien species a couple dozen light years away finding a nice little habitable world nearby and launching a sublight colonizing ship 200 years ago. Their ship lacks the resources to support their entire crew forever so once they get here taking at least part of the planet for themselves is not optional, then it is just a question of whether they will fight or bargain for it.

[Agammamon]

There are no reasources on Earth that you can't get elsewhere in this system, both cheaper (less gravity to lift against), in greater quantity, and without having to worry the slightest about over-evolved apes getting in your way.

[Pro Libertate]

About the only good reason I can come up with for attacking the Earth is to prevent us from developing to the point where we might be a danger to the attacking species. Not for resources--we have nothing you can't get easily in space or on other worlds. Slave labor makes little sense, given that a race capable of getting here likely can beat anything we can do. Therefore, an attack, if it ever happens, won't involve troops on the ground or aircraft. Just lots of death from space.

Of course, there is the possibility they will come for our women or to eat us. That's true.

[Tim]

The fear that our primitive internet cat videos will one day develop into an interstellar plague?

[Agammamon]

You joke, but spam is becoming sentient.

[UnCivilServant]

Worse - they could be coming to "civilize" us because we clearly do not exposit their galactic ideals.

[Pro Libertate]

Why bother? Just tell us to adhere to the code or you'll drop comets on us until we do.

[Auric Demonocles]

You don't reason with kids. You put the fear of (rods from) God in them.

[dinkster]

The aliens could also be nytimes op eds writers doing it for the children.

[Auric Demonocles]

They may just want to hunt us, or use us for some other form of entertainment as a novelty.

[Pro Libertate]

Or make us all into state governors.

[Auric Demonocles]

Put us in a zoo and make us display different periods in our history for different exhibits.

[Pro Libertate]

Genetically tamper with the Great Apes so that they are ten times as smart as us.

[mr simple]

Genetically tamper with the Great Apes so that they are ten times as smart as us.

You think they didn't like the results from the first(?) experiment so they're going to try with a new species?

[Pro Libertate]

I'm thinking they like the original Planet of the Apes and want to make it really happen.

[CE]

And with the time lag, they just saw it last week.

[CE]

Or divide us into two teams (Team Red and Team Blue), and see if we will fight over divisive but unresolvable social issues while our economy goes down the drain.

[Lord Humungus]

nah, it will be some errant teenager aliens just dickin' with us - a galactic game of billiards.

[Pro Libertate]

Asimov had some short stories in his early years about Earth being admitted into a federation of humanoids, who were constantly screwing with us. I think some college students pulled a prank or two on Earth in one of those stories.

[BakedPenguin]

I liked the old Twilight Zone where the aliens let us know that they're coming, and they're going to judge us. Immediately, every nation on Earth sign a peace treaty and all wars are stopped.

Then they get here, and tell us they put us here to become warriors. Also, that we've failed and they are now going to eliminate us.

[Pro Libertate]

Oops.

[Bobarian]

ATHF did it!

[Agammamon]

Still no reasonm for an *invasion* through some big rocks at us and boom you've bought yerself another million years leeway.

[Virginian]

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/.....or-satire/

Feminism or satire?

[WTF]

Poe's Law.

[Live Free or Diet]

The Big Bang Theory [is] "off-putting to young women".

But... My daughters all like that show!

[Rich]

But aren't all of us guilty of something?

Since we are the government, yes.

[LTC(ret) John]

Oh, if you only knew... of course, I am not even in the same league with Warty or Sugarfree.

[Rich]

Oh, come on, Sir.

You can tell *us* about "your friend"'s activities.

[Lord Humungus]

Dear Penthouse, you would never guess what happened to me. It all started innocently enough...

[LTC(ret) John]

"No shit, there I was..."

[Rich]

"The things she did with those Big Macs ...."

[Lord Humungus]

Peter Wehner: Conservatism and the Limitations of Self-Reliance
http://www.commentarymagazine......-reliance/

What's missing, I think, is an appropriate appreciation?or at least a public appreciation?for community, social solidarity, and the common good; for the obligations and attachments we have to each other and the role institutions play in forming those attachments.

It's not exactly clear to me why conservatives have neglected these matters. It may be the result of a counter-reaction to President Obama's expansion of the size, scope, and reach of the federal government, combined with a growing libertarian impulse within conservatism. Whatever the explanation, conservatives are making an error?a political error, a philosophical error, a human error?in ignoring (at least in our public language) this understanding of the richness and fullness of life.

[Warty]

Of course. Humans can't cooperate without violent coercion. Do you understand, or am I going to have to come over there and break your legs?

[mad libertarian guy]

Whatever the explanation, conservatives are making an error?a political error, a philosophical error, a human error?in ignoring (at least in our public language) this understanding of the richness and fullness of life.

You can only be free if you give me your shit!

[Jerryskids]

Without reading the article, I'm going to assume he's saying that Big Government isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's Big Government in the hands of the wrong people that's the problem.

If you are worried about a 'growing libertarian impulse', just remember the baseline. Yes, the number of libertarian-friendly members of Congress has tripled as of late, but going from less-than-1% to still-not-quite-1% is hardly a tectonic shift.

[VG Zaytsev]

Williamson at NR has a good article on the differences between voluntary association vs coercion and the superiority of emergent order vs central planning.

[Kaptious Kristen]

All these folks are terrified of libertarianism gaining a foothold. Must mean we're on the right track.

[ant1sthenes]

"What's missing, I think, is an appropriate appreciation?or at least a public appreciation?for community, social solidarity, and the common good; for the obligations and attachments we have to each other and the role institutions play in forming those attachments."

By "institutions", he means "USG", right? I'm pretty sure conservatives range from "ok with" to "adamantly supportive of" families, churches, and corporations, which are very fine, very voluntary and mostly non-violent institutions. Some of them just happen to have a problem with the invasive species of institution that wants to supplant them all.

[Agammamon]

The finny thing is - libertarians are *also* supportive of families, churches, and corporations.

So I don't understand the worry that the GOP being influenced by its libertarian wing will destroy the GOP's core identity.

[Virginian]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013.....ing-store/

Anyone want to capitalize my move to WY to open a gas station?

[Rich]

MY MOVE TO WY TO OPEN A GAS STATION

Sorry, Virginian -- couldn't resist.

[Auric Demonocles]

My half-uncle Petar makes $3596 dollars a weeek. By opening gas station via internet. didn't believe her until I saw the paycheck myself WOW

http://www.gasstationonline.com

[invisible furry hand]

soemtimes dude you jsut got to roll with it LOL

[Redmanfms]

Roll that beautiful bean footage.

[Lord Humungus]

http://www.urbandictionary.com.....?term=Roll that beautiful bean footage

[Lord Humungus]

or Bean Footage

[Rasilio]

What the hell is a half uncle?

[Lord Humungus]

it's like a half-nelson, but involves the bean footage.

[Zeb]

Your parent's half-brother, maybe?

[Pro Libertate]

Can I sell gasoline on eBay? That's legal, right?

[Virginian]

Probably not. The article talks about how the next closest gas station is super far away.

What do you want to bet a local rancher took delivery of a tanker truck and is selling gas for cash?

[mad libertarian guy]

What do you want to bet a local rancher took delivery of a tanker truck and is selling gas for cash?

In my experience in rural WY, ranchers sell gas even when there is no lack of other supply. Sometimes driving 40 fucking miles to town in order to get gas is not what one feels like doing for the afternoon.

I've gotten gas from ranchers in WY more than at gas stations.

[Pro Libertate]

I was in Wyoming, not too far from Devil's Tower, on a Sunday. The only gas station was closed. We asked a guy at a restaurant a few miles away where we could get gas. He went and talked to someone else there, got the key, and opened the gas station (and turned on the pumps) just for us. He did not work for or own the gas station.

[Auric Demonocles]

This harkens back to a joke post I made a couple of weeks ago. It was responding to a quote about needing sales tax on the internet for things like roads.

[Pro Libertate]

If someone would build my proposed network of pneumatic tubes, selling gas on eBay would be a reality.

[Auric Demonocles]

Alright buddy now explain to me how exactly we are going to calculate the totals?

[Pro Libertate]

Well, you can't just pour gas into the tubes. You place the gas in a sealed container, which is transferred at high speed to your designated destination.

[UnCivilServant]

When it reaches its destination, the capsule ruptures, aerosolizing the gasoline and triggering a spark to cause an explosion at the best stoiciometric ratio. Better than drones - fuel-air bomb delivery.

[Pro Libertate]

Clearly, the intertubials need some safeguards.

[Auric Demonocles]

Alright, let me, let me just stop you right there. How exactly are you planning on counting a liquid?

[Pro Libertate]

Measuring it by volume? Aren't you the technical guy? Why do I have to explain these things do you?

[Auric Demonocles]

Measuring it by volume? Aren't you the technical guy? Why do I have to explain these things do you?

Okay, you do it... You do it Epi, because I... I can't speak to him. I don't understand him.

[Agammamon]

Sheesh, I guess I'll have to bite.

Oh its easy dude. You pour gas into the car using one of these funnels, right. And I count how much gas is going into the car.

[Bobarian]

Passing gas in your pneumatic tubes might be considered rude.

[Fatty Bolger]

The town is named for the "chug" sound that bison made when they landed in Chugwater Creek after being chased off a cliff by American Indians, a once-common hunting technique.

That's pretty awesome, but I wonder if it's actually true.

[B.P.]

There is a helluva lot going on in this article.

[Agammamon]

Obviously we need universal background checks for driver's licenses now.

To prevent such an occurance from happening in the future

for the children

[sarcasmic]

Kinky boots! Whoopi Goldberg sexes up her appearance on The View in a pair of red patent lace up thigh-highs in homage to Tony-nominated musical

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....-play.html

Barf? Yes. Barf is the correct response.

[LTC(ret) John]

Ima no click on that.

[sarcasmic]

Aw, come on! Where's your sense of adventure! There's even a bonus pic of Cindy Lauper in knee-high boots!

[LTC(ret) John]

*narrows gaze to a suspicious look*

What year is the Cindy Lauper pic from?

[Elspeth Flashman]

Good move.

[Lord Humungus]

"Tony" nominated?

[Tim]

That's another reason Aliens will never come here.

[Bee Tagger]

A bar brawl in Prescott, Arizona, involved a biker gang ? of cops.

Worst season of Sons of Anarchy, ever.

[Matrix]

WWII Army vet gets his dog tag back that he lost in France during the war
Okay, Mortuary Affairs is just a small part of the Quartermaster Branch. But you'd think from reading the article that all quartermasters have it rough.

[Jerryskids]

Doesn't saying 'Mortuary Affairs' three times summon Warty?

[Virginian]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013.....suspended/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013.....nner-suit/

Schools and free speech. Still kinda shitty.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Looks like one win and one loss for free speech.

[generic Brand]

The Kountze school district had initially said the banners could not be displayed after receiving a complaint about them in September from the Freedom From Religion Foundation. The foundation argued the banners violated the so-called First Amendment Establishment Clause that bars government -- or publicly funded school districts in this case -- from establishing or endorsing a religion.

I would really like some prominent atheists to explain to me how a bible verse on a banner is "government...establishing or endorsing a religion." The appropriate response to banners with Bible verses would be banners with verses from other religious texts, or quotes from atheists, or uplifting quotes. Get the fuck over yourselves with your attempt to ban everything that has a hint of religiosity to it.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

from establishing or endorsing a religion

Even if you buy incorporation, that's bullshit. The First Amendment says no such thing and I think the fact these pricks try to slide in "endorse" says they have no real argument here.

[$park?]

It's the Freedom From Religion Foundation, they're like the Jezebel of atheism.

[Zeb]

It does go too far. If the school had required the banners to be displayed, or forbidden anything but Christian themed banners, I'd say that was a violation. But I see no problem here.

[UnCivilServant]

Aren't we all guilty of something?

"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt." - Inquisitor Toth

I used to think it was parody, but it's getting harder to parody society without being prophetic these days.

[Slammer]

+1 Blood Ravens Legion

[Aloysious]

FOR THE EMPEROR!!!

[Jerryskids]

And it's simply not true that they're tracking people who aren't suspected of committing crimes - they suspect everybody.

[Stormy Dragon]

Imagine they were instead banners with quotes from Paul Krugman on them. Would you be fine with that, or would you be lived about the school indoctrinating children?

[LTC(ret) John]

I'd be laughing at the school's Krugman Klub.

[ant1sthenes]

True, schools filling kids head with pro-government propaganda would be a dangerous new precedent... if it was decades ago and were debating whether to establish public schools.

[Lord Humungus]

San Andres police arrest fake nuns smuggling cocaine
http://colombiareports.com/col.....g-cocaine/

The three suspects, Colombians aged 20, 32 and 37 were arrested at the airport of San Andres as they were trying to enter the island.

All three had hidden two kilos of cocaine under their religious habit.

"They weren't really religious, they weren't nuns. On the contrary, they were taking advantage of this situation," San Andres police commissioner Jorge Gomez told RCN TV.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

I never made it that far in the game.

[Matrix]

'Psychic' who told Amanda Berry's mom that she was dead is "sorry"
She still has a better record of predictions than Paul Krugman.

[Rich]

She was probably just picking up emanations from the future.

[Virginian]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013.....cubs-game/

How the fuck did this happen?

[Matrix]

time to ban assault hotdogs?

[Zakalwe]

Not enough deep throat practice.

Yes, I know, too soon.

[$park?]

Really, a teacher even. You'd think she'd have male students to practice on.

[SweatingGin]

She apparently began choking during the 'National Anthem.'

The quotes there seem odd.

[ant1sthenes]

It explains a lot though. People didn't help because they wanted to be respectful.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The E-Verify system for checking job applicants' immigration status turns the business of making a living into a government-granted privilege, warns the ACLU.

The ACLU is lucky the government has granted them the permission to make such an outrageous claim.

[Plisade]

The company I work for participates voluntarily in E-Verify. After over a year of refusing to comply, I was finally "compelled" to fire two valuable, long-term employees. Those employees just got jobs elsewhere and my plant now suffers from losing their experience. Why anyone would voluntarily assist the govt. in enforcing laws that are deleterious to their own success is beyond me.

[Virginian]

If only they could make the same leap on gun rights, that government databases and approval turn it from a right into a privilege.

[Jerryskids]

The business of running a business has been a government-granted privilege for a long time. Try opening a convenience store without a business license, an occupancy permit, a gas permit, a gas tank inspection certificate, a cigarette license, a codes enforcement permit, an alcohol license, a health department inspection certificate, and probably at least of few others - plus try neglecting to submit the proper aales taxes, excise taxes, motor fuel taxes, income taxes, property taxes, business license and permit fees along with the proper documentation for all these.

In the olden days, the Kings hired goons at least provided on-site services, they came to you instead of requiring you to act as your own extortionist. As far as I know, the Mafia still provides this small courtesy.

[Virginian]

That's why the regulatory state is so much fucking worse then taxation.

Taxation is easy: you get our your pencil and calculator, you figure out what the vig is, and you pay it.

But the goddamn paperwork is never ending.

[invisible furry hand]

Swedes suspected of crashing their cars while drunk can continue to claim they became inebriated after the accident occurs, a government inquiry has found, concluding there is no need to outlaw drinking after a causing a traffic accident.

bonus points: it's not illegal to tamper with evidence there either

[Palin's Buttplug]

Fannie Mae to send $59.4 billion to Treasury

Fannie Mae has received about $116 billion in taxpayer funds since September 2008, when it was seized by regulators along with Freddie Mac. By the end of June, Fannie Mae will have paid $95 billion in dividends to Treasury for the government's stake, leaving the net cost of its bailout at about $21 billion.

http://www.reuters.com/article.....HK20130509

[VG Zaytsev]

That's more than Obama's haul from taxing 'the rich'.

QE really does work!

[Palin's Buttplug]

Geithner handled the GSE's brilliantly. He had to stiff-arm the progressives to keep them from exorbitant principal reductions. Now they will become cash cows and can be sold or just milked for the Treasury.

[VG Zaytsev]

Crony capitalism FTW!

[LTC(ret) John]

Even the resident lefty on CNBC's morning show was despairing how this was not really good news, but rather a beginning of the same journey we saw a few years ago.

[Don Mynack]

Monopolies can be quite profitable, the economists tell us.

[Jerryskids]

Especially if your accounting method ignores the opportunity cost of misappropriating $116 billion for 4 1/2 years, using funds taken from evidently economically productive entities and diverting them for the use of evidently economically non-productive entities.

Not to mention the future cost of the moral hazard of accepting the principle that the government is free to misappropriate money any time it wants to.

[sarcasmic]

Mountain climber found dead and covered in bee stings.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....l-dog.html
Ouch.

[LTC(ret) John]

And just where was Bee Tagger that day?!

[Bee Tagger]

It's bad enough that the government wants to surveil me, now LTC(ret) John does, too?

[invisible furry hand]

it's worse than that - at least the Government doesn't stand outside your house in the middle of the night playing softcock classics on a boombox

[Lord Humungus]

http://www.empireonline.com/im...../58782.jpg

[mr simple]

To be fair, has that ever not worked?

[WTF]

"'softcock' classics"??

[Bobarian]

Yeah, really, I doubt there's anything soft about what John's doing outside that window.

[Virginian]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013.....n-control/

Gun grabbers win a small victory.

[mr simple]

Anyone who wants to take a gun on to ACoE lands are just terrorists that want to use them to blow up dams and bridges.

[Virginian]

Which is what Babs Boxer actually said.

Fuck these people.

[#HOLO YOLO]

Preventing an expansion of gun rights is a really small victory.

[Lord Humungus]

Police Break Up Eagle Party at Safeway
http://kucb.org/news/article/p.....t-safeway/

I dunno, isn't interfering with Bald Eagles illegal?

[LTC(ret) John]

I was afraid to click that - I wasn't sur eif "Eagle Party" was a euphemism for some Sugarfree activity or another.

[invisible furry hand]

Police warn girl, 10, her chalk hopscotch grid on the pavement outside her home is criminal damage

more

[Matrix]

they didn't tase and pepper spray her?

Dereliction of duty!!

[UnCivilServant]

If it can be fixed with a bottle of water, it's not "damage" of any sort.

[Drake]

I hope she laughed at them and their yellow Volvo station wagon.

[trshmnstr]

She had better keep a close eye on her dog (if she has one)... It's liable to "get loose" and "become aggressive" in the coming days.

[0x90]

"You just kicked the shit out of an innocent man."

"Innocent? Innocent of what?"

[Auric Demonocles]

Yesterday someone was saying that Clinton should probably never hold elected or appointed office again because of Benghazi. That was my gut reaction too, but now I've had another thought: isn't the Ambassador to Libya an appointed position?

[LTC(ret) John]

That appointment would be for great justice.

[Pro Libertate]

Mandatory ambassadorship as punishment? Interesting.

[Auric Demonocles]

Bring back exile as a punishment.

[Pro Libertate]

We had the ostracism discussion earlier in the week. Bring that back. If not actual exile, at least a ten-year ban on elected office. For no reason except the voters say so.

[sarcasmic]

Woman pilot crash-lands helicopter on Hawaii street after engines fail... but amazingly no one is injured

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....jured.html
Woman pilot? Serious? A woman? Did they say the pilot was a woman? Women can pilot things? Seriously a woman? Wow, a woman!

[Bee Tagger]

She's gonna find herself piloting a giant drill to the center of the earth with Aaron Eckhart soon.

[Auric Demonocles]

Well, no, they can't. Notice how she crashed?

[sarcasmic]

Ain't her fault the engine failed.

Or is it?

[Zeb]

Probably just ignored the oil pressure warning light.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Look at that. Even coming in from the top, women can't parallel park.

[Pro Libertate]

This is why we can't have flying cars.

[Auric Demonocles]

So if we get rid of women drivers we can get the flying cars? Deal.

[Kaptious Kristen]

Sweet! I'll need a ride to and from work, to and from the grocery, to and from dog training, to and from happy hour, to and from my parents' house (8 hours each way), to and from VT twice a year (10 hours each way), to and from the ski resorts when I'm in VT, to and from my friends' houses (especially during BBQ season), to and from the squeeze's house, and other trip TBD as I see fit.

So glad you signed on as my chauffeur!

[Auric Demonocles]

What makes you think you're allowed to go anywhere?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sharia Law declared!

[Auric Demonocles]

Though we will have to replace burkas with bikinis for those women rated at 7 or above.

[Kaptious Kristen]

Fine with me! I'll need takeout food 3x/week, groceries 2x/week, the dog will need to be walked and brought to play with his buddies, my parents transported here to visit (they don't fly, like all good libertarians), trash driven to the dumpster 3x/week (unless you can make the cutoff for curbside, but you'll still have to take it out), and other errands TBD.

[db]

Next thing you know they'll be allowing Negroes to operate helitour services in the Hawaiian Islands.

[Pro Libertate]

There's a show I'm surprised hasn't been evilly rebooted.

[db]

I know, right? I just finished watching seasons 1 and 2 a few weeks ago. It's getting up to the part of the series that I remember being good (back when I was in elementary school).

[Pro Libertate]

"Did you see the sun rise this morning?"

[db]

No spoilers please. I never did see the last three seasons.

[Pro Libertate]

It's okay--that line is the title of the episode. Which is awesome.

[Bobarian]

'There's a show I'm surprised hasn't been evilly rebooted.'

They haven't been able to cultivate a proper mustashe.

[Azathoth!!]

It's in the works.

[Bee Tagger]

But aren't all of us guilty of something?

The best we can hope for is being an imminent threat to be guilty of something.

[Rich]

*** rising intonation ***

What about *potential* imminent threat ...?

[Lord Humungus]

Report: CBS News Bosses Irked by Correspondent's Thorough Benghazi Reporting
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/g.....g-n1591242

But from where Attkisson is sitting, there are actually two Goliaths, one of which is almost entirely absent from the Post profile. The second Goliath is CBS News, which has grown increasingly frustrated with Attkisson's Benghazi campaign. CBS News executives see Attkisson wading dangerously close to advocacy on the issue, network sources have told POLITICO. Attkisson can't get some of her stories on the air, and is thus left feeling marginalized and underutilized.

[Nazdrakke]

CBS News executives see Attkisson wading dangerously close to advocacy helping the proles become accurately informed on the issue.

Fixed

[PapayaSF]

And CBS News has been so free of advocacy up until now!

[LTC(ret) John]

Courage!

[Lord Humungus]

One-Third of U.S. Honeybee Colonies Died Last Winter, Threatening Food Supply
http://www.wired.com/wiredscie.....ee-losses/

Nearly one in three commercial honeybee colonies in the United States died or disappeared last winter, an unsustainable decline that threatens the nation's food supply.

Multiple factors ? pesticides, fungicides, parasites, viruses and malnutrition ? are believed to cause the losses, which were officially announced today by a consortium of academic researchers, beekeepers and Department of Agriculture scientists.

"We're getting closer and closer to the point where we don't have enough bees in this country to meet pollination demands," said entomologist Dennis vanEngelstorp of the University of Maryland, who led the survey documenting the declines.

[LTC(ret) John]

OK, I am seeing a pattern here....Bee Tagger!

[UnCivilServant]

Where is Bee Tagger?

[Bee Tagger]

It's my cousin, Bee Fragger.

[UnCivilServant]

Noooo... Not the Bees!

/Alt Nic Cage interpretation

[Drake]

Can he frag the damn Carpenter Bees that keep chewing up my deck and siding? They seem healthy enough.

[Agammamon]

Or your secret identity Bee Bugger.

[VG Zaytsev]

Beepocalypse is only 5-7 years away!!!

[Restoras]

Similar phenomenon several years ago, as I recall, and nothing else happened.

[robc]

or disappeared

If they merely moved to freedom, they will stop be out pollinating, just not necessarily what their slave masters wanted them to pollinate.

If they are dead though, that is problematic.

[robc]

*still* be out

sigh

[Agammamon]

Wait, wait. . . wait.

If so many honeybee colonies are dying off that its threatening the food supply - why aren't produce prices rising?

[Zakalwe]

There have been 78,000 applicants so far for a planned private one-way trip to colonize Mars.

But will the native underpants gnomes welcome them? If there's anyone even more clueless about step 2 (???) it's would be Mars colonizers.

[sarcasmic]

Dude doesn't want to kiss his fat girlfriend on the kiss-cam, so she dumps her big gulp over him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....phone.html

[Mike M.]

Arrest her Bloomberg!

[Slammer]

She's hot

[Mike M.]

But she really needs a new pair of jorts; preferably one that was manufactured this century.

[Matrix]

wonder if Jezzies would come to his rescue... or is he somehow victimizing her by not kissing her?

[Virginian]

In the Jezzie Hierarchy of Victimhood, a straight man is always at the bottom.

[Matrix]

you forgot to add white

[KMA Too]

Does that make it a "white power bottom" situation, then?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Fake.

[generic Brand]

My thought as well. The "boyfriend's" stupid expression after the girl leaves gives it away.

[mr simple]

He's clearly gay.

[MP]

Wasn't that an episode of New Girl?

[Pro Libertate]

Gotta make a ruling--they're faking.

[sarcasmic]

Lady who collects trolls kinda looks like one.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem.....ables.html

[Rich]

She even has the mammoth task of cleaning the trolls

Is that what the kids are calling it these days?

[Zeb]

You don't want to know where those trolls have been.

[Virginian]

Crazy eyes.

[Lord Humungus]

FBI claims right to read your e-mail, just like other federal agencies
http://arstechnica.com/tech-po.....-agencies/

If we've told you once, we've told you a thousand times?the feds can (and do) easily access your e-mail. In fact, sending materials through the United States Postal Service is legally more secure than e-mail.

On Wednesday, as the result of a Freedom of Information Act request, the American Civil Liberties Union has published the first public copy of the 2012 edition of the FBI's Domestic Investigations and Operations Guide. And this document clearly draws that distinction. The new disclosure shows that the FBI believes it does have the authority to open your e-mail essentially whenever it wants:

[Mike M.]

The administration is going to try to take credit for the economy of Texas?? Well, howdy pardner Obama, yeeeeehaaaaw!

The greatest comedian on earth couldn't make something like this up.

[Rich]

Perry should declare secession to Obama in person.

[UnCivilServant]

Will he take the blame for New York's economy too?

[Rich]

And what are California and Illinois, chopped liver?

[UnCivilServant]

Actually, I'd take chopped liver over either state.

[LTC(ret) John]

We here in IL would like to climb up to chopped liver status, thankee very much.

[Nazdrakke]

Besides accident of birth, what in the hell can be worth living in IL or CA? I mean, aside from being so outrageously wealthy that you are insulated from the local kleptocracy? I don't think I could do it. Kudos to those of you who brave the lion's den, but it's a sucker bet.

[LTC(ret) John]

It is accident of birth right now - my parents are still around and in the ol' hometown. I am 45 minutes down the road and have a decent job, live in a good neighborhood and we have good schools. However, I have already made it clear to my kids that they should feel no obligation to stay here, should something better (inevitably) come along.

The taxes here and future threat of being tapped, hard, to pay for the $100 billion plus public sector worker pension hole is frightening.

[Nazdrakke]

future threat of being tapped, hard, to pay for the $100 billion plus public sector worker pension hole is frightening.

That's the Sword of Damocles isn't it? I wonder what % of the informed population believes that somehow that will be resolved without a resort to ruinous taxation. I've read a lot of history over the years and a constant theme when shit goes pie-shaped is the frog-in-the-pot dynamic. People telling themselves over and over "it'll get better, it just has to." Frankly it's depressing.

[Brett L]

However, I have already made it clear to my kids that they should feel no obligation to stay here,

No, seriously, kids. GTFO.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Besides accident of birth, what in the hell can be worth living in IL or CA?

Well Nazdrakke, I live in Long Beach, CA. One of the reasons (drink!) I enjoy California is; today I will go for a jog along the beach sometime around 2PM. That is the "sweet spot". The sun is out, and it will be warm. I'll jog past the beach volleyball courts. There will be scores of college girls in bikinis jumping around, hitting volleyballs.

I think that's a decent excuse for staying in CA.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel wants to know a little bit more about those 17 Air Force officers stripped of responsibility for (potentially) blowing up the planet.

Movie night at the base probably shouldn't have finally shown War Games.

[CampingInYourPark]

"Kevyn Orr: Detroit Is In Worse Shape Than I Thought"

"In the report, Orr uses charts and graphs to paint the bleak picture of the city's finances, including over $15 billion in long-term debt and an accumulated operating deficit of $325 million.

'We've been collecting operating deficits at about $18 million to $20 million a year. That's nobody's fault, I think, frankly, the mayor and the council has done the best they can with what they have.'"

Indeed. Job well done!

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/20.....i-thought/

[Raston Bot]

I blame the voters. No direct federal bailout for you, Detroit. Get that money from MI.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I wonder how much of that debt is tied up in paying city pensioners who fled Detroit the minute they signed their retirement papers.

[cavalier973]

Detroit is a hotbed of anarcho-capitalism as a result.

[Lord Humungus]

Sanford's Win, a Loss for Conservatives
http://www.nationalreview.com/.....ative-loss

Among other things, this election result is a searing reminder that we have, as a nation, lost touch with what "redemption" really means ? with the true power of God's grace, which is the power to transform behavior. And behavior, after all, is a reflection of the heart. How much longer can conservative stewards of family values turn a blind eye to the very narcissistic lifestyle choices of our leaders that we are fighting so hard to weaken (and ultimately transform) in society at large?

[VG Zaytsev]

Yeah it be so much better for conservatives if a hectoring socialists were elected instead.

Fuckheads.

[Virginian]

National Review are what I call concession speech conservatives. They love the idea of losing gracefully, giving a great concession speech that has class and dignity. Getting in the mud and muck to go mano a mano with the Left would ruin their expensive clothes.

Sanford was supposed to lose so they could tut tut. They probably already had the columns written.

[LTC(ret) John]

"concession speech conservatives"

Stolen.

[Raston Bot]

Where there's his problem right there: trying to transform society at large

[cavalier973]

How much longer can "conservative stewards of family values" turn a blind eye to....

The FedGov killing families overseas?

The FedGov tearing families apart based on the stupid "War on Drugs"?

The FedGov destroying families by slowly eroding the purchasing power of the dollar through its catamite organization known as the Federal Reserve?

Stupid NatRev. They think they're smart, but they're not.

[Lord Humungus]

David Cameron attacks Tory 'pessimists' who say Britain should leave EU
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....ve-EU.html

The Prime Minister insisted he could negotiate a new relationship for Britain with Europe and then after 2015 put the deal to the British people in an in-out referendum.

Mr Cameron's comments represented a direct rebuke to Tory grandees, such as Michael Portillo and Lord Lawson, who have called for the UK to withdraw from the EU.

"I think they're wrong," the premier told business figures and officials from around the world at a conference in London. It was "possible" to push through changes to the EU to roll back burdensome rules and help strengthen trade, he said.

[DJF]

Why would the EU want to give up any of its power?

[mad libertarian guy]

t was "possible" to push through changes to the EU to roll back burdensome rules and help strengthen trade, he said.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

Once there has been a power grab, that ground will never be given up by the state.

[Zeb]

When it's one state grabbing power from another, the dynamic might be a bit different. We'll see.

[Palin's Buttplug]

As red ink recedes, pressure fades for budget deal

Federal tax revenue is up and spending is down thanks to an improving economy, tax increases that took effect in January and the automatic budget cuts known as the sequester.

The sunnier outlook means that President Obama will be able to pay the nation's bills for months without seeking additional borrowing authority from Congress ? probably until Oct. 1, according to independent forecasts.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....ory_1.html

[Brett L]

Sequester Works!

[UnCivilServant]

Now imagine if we'd actually cut something.

[mad libertarian guy]

AWESOME!!!! We have 3 whole months where we aren't proverbially living paycheck to paycheck.

[Don Mynack]

Imagine how much more revenue they could collect with a big tax cut now.

[cavalier973]

Does Prez Obama make you look at him when you do this?

[Fluffy]

I would just like to point out that those of you who claimed that the Penguins would walk all over the Islanders were wrong.

Carry on.

[Auric Demonocles]

It feels weird, but I'm rooting for a NY team.

[UnCivilServant]

Not even New Yorkers root for New York teams.

[MP]

Neither the Islanders nor the Bills really count as NY teams to NYCers.

[robc]

Next you are going to say that Buffalo isnt in NY.

[Auric Demonocles]

That's both part of the reason that it is easier not to hate those teams, and easier to hate NYCers. The Bills are the only football team to even have a stadium in NY!

[Virginian]

The one guy on ESPN calls the two NYC NFL teams Jersey A and Jersey B.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Having watched the team for the past three playoffs, I didn't think that at all.

[Auric Demonocles]

They were rolling without Crosby though. Then they picked up Ignla, the bastard.

[Auric Demonocles]

Which I guess makes me like the people who buy into Peyton Manning every year right before he throws a pick six to go one and done.

[Fist of Etiquette]

87 comes back and the rest of them sit back and watch the Crosby show instead of playing. It's bad to have players come off injuries and return after the playoffs are underway and a team had been gelling.

But mostly it's Playoff Fleury, who gets in his own head and becomes a rusty sieve. And it probably doesn't help that he's a new dad.

[Auric Demonocles]

If Pittsburgh and Montreal both lose tonight I would be a very happy man.

[NoVAHockey]

I still think Pittsburgh wins the series. even though they're an OT way from being down 3-1

[Auric Demonocles]

I think they probably do too. But I can hope.

[NoVAHockey]

well, let's both cheer for Montreal to lose in spectacular fashion. say giving up a shorty in OT.

[NoVAHockey]

I forgot they decide to skate around like undisciplined baboons in the playoffs. And that Fluery decides stops the hard ones, but let in the easy ones.

[Raston Bot]

did you see Ovi lollygagging on the Ranger's fourth goal last night? lazy sonofabitch.

[NoVAHockey]

just sort of glides back into the play.

[Kaptious Kristen]

Probably had a snootful during the intermissions.

I have a dilemma, because a friend of a friend is knocked up, and she has agreed to let her hubby name the baby some dude's name, even if it's a girl, if the Canucks win the Stanley Cup and he gets 100 "likes" on FB. I want to root for this to happen, but I'm a Caps fan (since the North Stars moved to fucking Texas, for fuck's sake, and the Wild don't count).

[Auric Demonocles]

Well there's no point thinking about it now. The Canucks literally have zero chance of winning the cup this year.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

JUST SO LONG AS THE LEAFS LOSE

[Auric Demonocles]

I'm going to the game where this hopefully happens tomorrow.

[Gbob]

Ugh. Rooting for Boston goes against everything that I, as a good Buffalo fan, stand for.

On the other hand, my greatest joy each year is watching sad and dejected Toronto fans get in their cars to drive back home each year.

[Lord Humungus]

wings lost in OT. Not that I was expecting 'em to get far in the playoffs.

[Bee Tagger]

The E-Verify system for checking job applicants' immigration status turns the business of making a living into a government-granted privilege

So long as you don't try to 3D print a living.

[sarcasmic]

Finally watched The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Good movie.

[Lord Humungus]

original?

[sarcasmic]

Swedish flick with subtitles.

[Lord Humungus]

that's the way to roll.

[sarcasmic]

This is another good Swedish film with subtitles.

[Lord Humungus]

I enjoyed this Norwegian flick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headhunters_(film)

[Fist of Etiquette]

Did you also finally try on those acid wash jeans? Finally ditch AOL? Finally realize MTV doesn't show many music videos?

I haven't seen that movie yet.

[LTC(ret) John]

"Finally realize MTV doesn't show many music videos?"

Wait...Music TV doesn't show music videos?!

[generic Brand]

No, the M in MTV stands for "Meshuggeneh".

[Kaptious Kristen]

Better than the book? Because the book fucking sucked (well, to be fair, I liked it up until the "big reveal", which I thought was phoned in, as was the denouement).

[Lord Humungus]

and here come the talking points. Comments are good though.

http://www.nationaljournal.com.....p-20130508

Benghazi: Incompetence, But No Cover-up
The hearings deepen the tragedy, but not the scandal.

[Rich]

What it is not ? by a long shot -- is a scandal yet.

It was, um, edifying to watch yesterday's hearings. The differences -- in every aspect -- between the Democrats and the Republicans was truly striking.

[Mike M.]

What difference at this point does it make? Death is a part of life.

[Rich]

Almost as sickening as the shenanigans ramming through DemocratCare.

[VG Zaytsev]

That will be the motto for Obamacare's Death Panels?

[Matrix]

States will lose in refusing to enforce federal gun laws

[Night Elf Mohawk]

"Hey, law enforcement has discretion in what to pursue, right? If you want to screw with guns, you can send fed agents in to do it on their own."

[mad libertarian guy]

States will lose in refusing to enforce federal gun laws

How so? SCOTUS has already ruled that states are not obligated to enforce federal law.

[UnCivilServant]

Case citation? I wanna read it.

[mad libertarian guy]

http://www.volokh.com/2013/05/.....eve-benen/

[UnCivilServant]

Thank you.

[mad libertarian guy]

The money quote in Printz v US.

[T]he Federal Government may neither issue directives requiring the States to address particular problems, nor command the State's officers, or those of their political subdivisions, to administer or enforce a federal regulation" Printz v. United States, 521 U.S. 898, 935 (1997).

The long and short of it that though states may not nullify federal law, or keep the feds from enforcing a federal law or regulation, states are not obligated to help them do it. They can ignore any and all attempts at the feds enlisting local assistance if they so choose. If the feds don't come in to enforce their own laws, the local constabulary can be instructed to sit and watch federal crimes happen with no penalty.

This is obviously very good, but will almost certainly lead to the explosion of federal law enforcement pay rolls if we get to a point at which states are routinely flaunting federal law. For instance, the feds can probably handle a couple of states going rogue on pot law. They cannot handle all 50 states ignoring federal pot law without growing federal ranks exponentially.

[Don Mynack]

Does anybody remember this?

"On March 10, 2009, active duty U.S. Army Military Police troops from Fort Rucker were deployed to Samson, Alabama, in response to a murder spree. Samson officials confirmed that the soldiers assisted in traffic control and securing the crime scene. The governor of Alabama did not request military assistance nor did President Obama authorize their deployment. Subsequent investigation found that the Posse Comitatus Act was violated and several military members received "administrative actions" "

[mr simple]

His supporting argument is that Andrew Jackson once threatened to invade a state to enforce a tax? Like any slimy ratweasels that can become president these days have the balls that Jackson had.

[UnCivilServant]

Jackson was among the few presidents who faced his enemies directly when he killed them.

His main regret on his deathbed was not having killed as many people as he'd have like (and he named names too, though I forget who).

[CampingInYourPark]

"Union Square Ventures principal Fred Wilson just led his first startup deal in nearly two years.
Wilson led a $5 million round in Coinbase, a startup for buying, selling, and accepting Bitcoins."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....35658.html

[Brett L]

This whole meme about Fauxcahontas wanting student loans lowered to the rate of bailout fund pisses me the fuck off. How about the government gets out of the loaning money industry, entirely and quits distorting the market?

[Palin's Buttplug]

That bill is completely disingenuous. Those interest rates of less than 1% are for Fed overnight loans only. To compare a 20 year student loan to that is hackery.

[Brett L]

Oh, agreed. The optics are great for the Dems, but the risk profile is totally different. Also, why would the government underwrite loans?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Notice how her focus isn't actually in determining why tuition costs are so high to begin with--instead, she's enabling the growth of the debted class.

Unfortunately, too many college students are too stupid to actually think this through.

[UnCivilServant]

My student loan interest rate is 2% (I got lucky with variable rates and this economy) It's rather insignificant in terms of growth that I think it might actually be my only debt which grows less than inflation.

Who could ask for more than a self-shrinking debt?

[sarcasmic]

I consolidated mine in 2005 at some ridiculously low rate as well.

[John]

And for someone who got rich working from one of the most expensive schools in the world and the school that in many ways helps set the price of higher education to have the nerve to bitch about the student loan problem is more than a bit appalling.

[mad libertarian guy]

But John: feminist sociology majors who specialize in RAPE KULTUR deserve economic justice too.

[John]

Sure. And can't we give it to them by paying people like Warren a little less so tuition is lower?

[mad libertarian guy]

No, because that's less money being transferred.

[Matrix]

Kind of a repost from last night, but I posted it pretty late.
Student puts teacher in her place for being lazy

[Virginian]

Unpossible. All teachers tutor kids before school, mentor six extracurricular activities each, and constantly work all weekend and all summer. For a pittance. Because they love these kids.

[Eduard van Haalen]

New study on Chile's maternal mortality ratio (MMR) includes this:

"After abortion was prohibited [in 1989], the MMR decreased from 41.3 to 12.7 per 100,000 live births (?69.2%). The slope of the MMR did not appear to be altered by the change in abortion law."

http://www.plosone.org/article.....6613#close

[Auric Demonocles]

Took me a second to realize that they meant there was a steady decline preceding the abortion law, and it continued after.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Sorry - here's a summary:

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/0.....mortality/

[Auric Demonocles]

Which isn't surprising, because despite what prochoice people sometimes claim, health of the mother cases are basically nonexistent in the number of abortions.

[robc]

Its also another point in favor of deontology over pragmatism.

Most "pragmatic" arguments are based on faulty data.

[John]

They always talk about that. But then they never seem to have any specific facts about it. Just what causes an abortion to be necessary for the health of the mother? How common are such conditions?

And if abortion were commonly necessary for the health of the mother, why don't we ever hear about fundamentalist Christian mothers dying trying to give birth? Seems if there were a lot of cases like that we would hear about them, either from Christian circles hailing the woman as a hero who died for her child or from pro abortion circles showing how needed abortions are.

[invisible furry hand]

don't know how common it is, but yes, an abortion can be necessary to save a woman's life.

[John]

No question it can be. But how often does that really happen? Like I said, if it were common, it seems to me that there would be a lot of fundamentalist Christian women, who both tend to have a lot of children and be vehemently opposed to abortion, dying during child birth. Yet, I can't recall a single case of that appearing in the media.

[Virginian]

Because the fact that upwards of 90% of abortions are done out of convenience really fucks with their narrative.

The squishy middle supports abortion because they can make believe that there really are millions of cases where the mother's life is threatened. Plus they want the option if their precious snowflake gets herself knocked up.

[NoVAHockey]

"precious snowflake gets herself knocked up"

pay the man, shirley

[Lord Humungus]

I am a locksmith and I'm a locksmith.

[John]

They also make believe that late term abortions rarely or never happen and abortions always involve a few cells that can only be seen on a microscope rather than a body with arms, legs, a brain and that reacts to stimulus. That is why the pro abortion people are so against mandatory ultra sounds. They don't care about privacy. Since when did liberals have a problem with the government controlling and mandating healthcare? They don't want people to stop making believe abortion is something that it is not.

[Zeb]

John, your generalizations about supporters of legal abortion are about as silly as people who think that the only reason people are anti-abortion is because they are religious nuts who want women to always be barefoot and pregnant. This is a libertarian site. Why do you keep arguing with the liberals in your head about abortion?

[Auric Demonocles]

Because libertarians account for like 1% of prochoicers?

[Zeb]

So what? You aren't going to convince anyone here of anything by presenting a caricature of liberal abortion supporters that isn't even very accurate. For the most part pro-legal -abortion people don't think that a large proportion of abortions are for medical necessity, and are OK with that.

[John]

Really Zeb? Why don't you educate me and tell me all about it? I seem to see a lot of people on this site who refer to abortion as just a collection of cells. And do you deny the notion that abortion is constantly talked of in terms of health of the mother and rape rather than convenience by its supporters?

I really hate to break this you Zeb but just because you agree with one side, doesn't mean all or even most of the people on that side are enlightened philosopher kings.

[Zeb]

doesn't mean all or even most of the people on that side are enlightened philosopher kings.

I never said they were. Just that they don't actually believe that most abortions are for medical necessity, or that most are done before any recognizable body parts start to form. But they do generally support the right to elective abortion and are under no illusion that most abortion is for medical necessity. I am fully aware that a lot of the prog. abortion supporters are awful in may ways, with the war on women bullshit and demands for public funding and such.

[Auric Demonocles]

I think I have seen a stat that rape, incest, and health-of-the-mother accounts for 1% of abortions.

[John]

That sounds about right AD. It is pretty hard to get pregnant from having sex one time. And not every woman who is raped is even capable of getting pregnant. Real no kidding incest is very rare. I would be surprised if 1 out of a thousand abortions is the result of rape or incest.

[Auric Demonocles]

I actually never understood why incest was on the list anyway. I disagree with rape being a special category, but I can at least see the argument. I can't for incest. Either it's a situation that already falls under the rape category, but if it's not a rapy incest why is that different from any other pregnancy?

[VG Zaytsev]

Why does incest get thrown in with the other two?

[Auric Demonocles]

Why does incest get thrown in with the other two?

Because you're too slow to stop it!

[Virginian]

Because it's gross and if you argue against it they'll accuse you of molesting your daughter.

[robc]

they'll accuse you of molesting your daughter.

Which would fall under the rape category anyway.

[Auric Demonocles]

they'll accuse you of molesting your daughter.

Which would fall under the rape category anyway.

It seems to be kind of like a historical connection that people refuse to break in their mind. Like how polygamy must mean coercion because it has been practiced by people under the Craster model.

[Rasilio]

This

Well at least that is the most common one I am aware of.

It can develop as early as 20 weeks and with the baby not really being viable prior to ~28 weeks (there have been a couple of instances where babies born at 22 weeks to survive but it is exceedingly rare).

This leaves about a 2 month period where abortion for medical reasons could be necessary as a result

[John]

No one doubts such cases exist Rasilio. But they are fairly rare and account for a very small percent of abortions. Yet, somehow get portrayed as being the reason for most abortions.

[Fluffy]

You'd have to include in the mortality rate deaths due to self- or amateur-attempted abortions.

That's probably a much larger category of female deaths in cases where abortion is illegal. Not MMR, which as I understand it is childbirth deaths. The vast majority of deaths would come in non-childbirth situations, where women attempted to evade the anti-abortion law.

[Zeb]

why don't we ever hear about fundamentalist Christian mothers dying trying to give birth?

Because they get the abortion and pretend that it's something else. Like the Santorums, or one relative of mine, to list a couple of examples.

[John]

Because they get the abortion and pretend that it's something else.

Oh they do Zeb. You have any citation for this beyond your own prejudices? You might want to avoid saying idiotic generalizations right after you accuse someone of generalizing. Or at least not do it on exactly the same thread.

[Zeb]

You are right, it was a cheap generalization. But it does happen. It's not just my own prejudices. I gave two examples. I imagine they aren't the only two in the world, but I suppose it's possible. Conservatives are capable of being hypocrites too.

[Auric Demonocles]

Getting an abortion for health-of-the-mother reason wouldn't make most prolifers hypocrites, anyway. Getting an abortion for convenience would.

[John]

So what? Not everyone is a hypocrite. And again, we never hear about such cases. That is pretty strong evidence that abortions for medical reasons are pretty rare.

[CampingInYourPark]

"Because they get the abortion and pretend that it's something else. Like the Santorums, or one relative of mine"

The Santorums and your relative got abortions and pretended it was something else? What did they pretend it was?

[Brett L]

Bear gets pissed about bike race crash eats monkey in front of circus crowd.

[Eduard van Haalen]

LOL he was really spankng that monkey!

http://www.belikeprivateandstuff.com

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Look who's lookin' good at 50

[John]

The old Miuras are gorgeous. The Coontash's not so much. Italian super cars in the 80s were just awful.

[Zakalwe]

You know what other Italian looked good at almost 50?

[Archduke Pantsfan]

IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME: Flying hybrid automobile
"The person at the controls of the TF-X would not have to be a licensed pilot"

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'll see it when I believe it.

[Tim]

"That technology includes fly-by-wire controls and so-called intelligent systems to make operating the vehicle easier, safer and more convenient "

If you're intelligent you won't be getting in that death trap.

[db]

How would they not have to be a licensed pilot? Would they fly below and around controlled airspace at all times (which is practically impossible to do in the eastern U.S.)?

The more I learn during my pilot training the more I realize that the dream of flying cars is doomed not by technical considerations of design, but by weather and regulations.

[cavalier973]

You don't need a pilot's license to fly an ultralight.

[Agammamon]

Yeah, you also can't have it weigh more than 500lbs or carry more than 5 gallons of fuel. You also can't fly it over anything resembling a residential or business area.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Now that the damage is done, Donna Brazile decides to be "courageous" and admit that the Bush/Katrina trope was political bullshit:

http://communities.washingtont.....ut-hurric/

[John]

The media's performance on Katrina was probably, next to trying to frame Richard Jewell for the Olympic bombing, the most most shameful even of my lifetime. Every single thing the media said about Katrina was a lie. And beyond the partisan lies about the culpability of the feds and Bush, the coverage was filled with the most vile racist lies. They slandered the entire black community of New Orleans as a bunch of animals who went on an insane orgy of rape and destruction when left unsupervised. Talk about letting the mask slip.

[Fluffy]

The citizens did better than the police in New Orleans.

You had two types of cops in New Orleans after Katrina - deserters, and guys shooting randomly at anything that moved while violating as many enumerated rights as they could think of.

Katrina was a failure of Democrat city government. If you put my town under water, the police wouldn't desert and the town managers wouldn't hide in a hotel room with the shades drawn.

[robc]

My city flooded in 1937. 90 people died, 175,000 were evacuated. Not quite New Orleans numbers, but it was 1937. The Ohio River crested at 30 feet above flood level. That seems like a lot.

Result: the early suburbs. The evacuees to the high rural areas around the city stayed after the flood and built the early suburban areas up.

They are considered urban areas now, the suburbs are even further out, but they were the first of the expansion.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

You had two types of cops in New Orleans after Katrina - deserters, and guys shooting randomly at anything that moved while violating as many enumerated rights as they could think of.

The night Katrina hit New Orleans, I was watching the live webcams set up around the city on NOLA.com. The camera at the intersection of St. Charles and Napolean Ave., featured a cop car that was running through the intersection splashing through the puddles. It had it's light going. But I swear to god, it was the same cop car just going back and forth, splashing through the intersection. For four hours. It was like what my friends and I would do in high school.

Also, there were about a million ambulances, just driving everywhere all over the city. The whole civic emergency response seemed chaotic. Not just chaotic. But psychotic. Like the "first responders" lost their shit. It was bizarre to watch.

[Raston Bot]

From ACLU's white paper on e-verify:

Some bureaucrat screwed something up and now I
can't work, I can't travel?I can't even buy beer at the
Quicky-Mart because they won't recognize my ID!
I'm starting to feel like I'm a non-person in my own
country. This is such a nightmare. I called my
members of Congress, I'm hoping maybe they can
help me. I found out yesterday that our Senator voted
for this thing!

And I bet you kept your mouth shut when that shit was racing through Congress instead of reading your senator the riot act.

[John]

And don't worry. No bureaucrat would ever abuse their position to take their ex wife or ex husband's new girl friend out of the system making it impossible for them to work. That would never happen.

[Raston Bot]

I worry more about general incompetence b/c there would be no accountability and prove harder to correct.

[John]

Yeah. It would be unlikely to affect a typical native American citizen. But if you are a new citizen from a country that doesn't use the Latin alphabet? Good luck.

[Hollywood]

Elizabeth Warren: Give students the same deal as big banks

*blood pressure spiking*

Yes because TWO WRONGS MAKES A RIGHT!

Warren is a leading critic of Wall Street banks.."

...so she wants to extend to students the precise thing that should be driving her criticism of these banks?

It's wrong on so many levels.

Warren also noted the "serious risk to the recovery" that student debt poses, and said students are just as important to economic growth as big banks....students who are drowning in debt....

What does she think is going to happen if interest rates on student loans are lowered? If the cost of borrowing decreases, do people borrow more or less? THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE STUDENT DEBT.

[John]

And colleges will be free to continue to raise prices well above the rate of inflation. Pump up the high ed bubble more so Liz Warren and her tenured friends at Harvard and such places can make even more money.

[VG Zaytsev]

Yep.

But she's doing for the kids, not her buddies. Cause she cares so much.

[Matrix]

She just continues to reaffirm my disdain for Massachusetts.

[mad libertarian guy]

What does she think is going to happen if interest rates on student loans are lowered? If the cost of borrowing decreases, do people borrow more or less? THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE STUDENT DEBT.

Incentives are a wingnut conspiracy. Shreek told me so.

[John]

Colleges would never take advantage of the easier available money to raise prices. Never. Only evil capitalists like the Kochs would do that.

[Raston Bot]

I don't see enough of her team getting behind this since students are not major donors to campaigns.

[UnCivilServant]

It's the universities who benefit from the increased ability to raise rates, they'd push for it.

[VG Zaytsev]

If the cost of borrowing decreases, do people borrow more or less? THERE IS GOING TO BE MORE STUDENT DEBT.

I have trouble telling whether Warren is a complete fucking moron or a mendacious evil genius.

The end result of this proposal will of course be higher tuition, larger university empires and more student debt.

Gee, it's totally coincidental that Warren and her friends are the real beneficiaries.

[Brett L]

If this were part of the exit plan, ie, the gummint will no longer guarantee new loans, and anyone with current loans declaring personal bankruptcy will repay at the Fed funds rate, I'd be okay with unwinding the shit-storm that way.

[VG Zaytsev]

My solution is to make them dischargable in bankruptcy through chapter 11 and give some clawback to creditors against the universities.

The harder it fucks the Us the better. The way that they've twisted the minds of a couple of generations and put them in debt bondage should be criminal.

[Brett L]

Sure. Its not my perfect solution, but if I were a libertarian trying to offer an amendment to the current bill to further my aims...

[mad libertarian guy]

In the interest of resting the ears today after a truly excellent cacophonous assault of epic progressive death metal last night (those who have given up on Opeth are fools!), what the hell is a Nosound?

The addition of Chris Maitland on drums (former Porcupine Tree) for Afterthoughts was absolutely the right move to make.

[mr simple]

Sigh. Another Slint cover band?

[Sevo]

OT:
"Big contrast in hospitals' Medicare billing"
"In Oakland, Alameda County Medical Center charged an average of $19,855 for a patient with seizures in 2011, while Alta Bates Summit Medical Center - less than 4 miles away in the same city - billed $48,923 to treat the same condition"
(remains hidden behind pay wall)
But, here's the take away from the dead-tree version:
"Hospitals are allowed to charge what they want, so this is the consequence of a lack of regulation..."

Read more: http://www.sfchronicle.com/hea.....z2SnvbGm3L

[UnCivilServant]

Two questions - what was the relative quality of care between the facilities? and how much choice did the patients have about where they would be direted?

[NoVAHockey]

what's up with the lefty blogs running every negligent "kids shoots self/other" with parents' gun?

[John]

Do you have to ask? Is there anything they do that is nor for the purpose of reinforcing some lefty superstition?

[NoVAHockey]

yeah ... it just seems so ghastly.

[John]

Twenty something dead kids in Newtown is about as ghastly as it gets. But that didn't stop them from jumping for joy at their new found political opportunity did it?

[NoVAHockey]

i suppose i know that. it's just disgusting to see it.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

Journolist 2.0.

[ant1sthenes]

You're probably right. If hackers weren't assholes, they would be on top of this shit.

[BakedPenguin]

TEBOW!

[John]

They are afraid his fans will demand he play and cause problems. No matter what you think of his abilities, he is by far not the worst quarterback in the league. Guys like Matt Cassle, Christian Ponder, and Blaine Gabbert have jobs. The NFL is filled with sorry quarterbacks who always seem to find a job.

[Virginian]

Christian Ponder is still real young. He could possibly be decent. Not likely, but possible.

[Auric Demonocles]

No. I will not have this same argument again.... Don't respond... Just go back to the hockey subthread.

[John]

Yeah, you keep dreaming that the Vikings are going to win more than 10 games or ever win a playoff game with Ponder as a QB. Have fun wasting the career of a Hall of Fame running back.

[Auric Demonocles]

I will respond to point that I am not a Vikings fan.

[John]

Regardless, Ponder is still horrible and the Vikings are going nowhere with him as a quarterback.

Sorry, the idea that Tebow is some uniquely bad quarterback is ridiculous. the league is full of horrible quarterbacks.

[Auric Demonocles]

The Vikings won 10 games (and in the NFC North, not a crap division like the AFC West) with him at QB. He's not going to win them games himself, but ~60% competitions and a positive TD:int ratio, are better than any other currently available options. He's not a horrible quarterback (though he's not good enough for the 12th overall pick).

[John]

completion percentage only means something when put into context with yardage and yards per pass. Yeah, when all you are capable of doing is throwing screens and five yard check downs on third and eleven, your completion percentage is going to be pretty good. But that doesn't mean you are any good.

[Kaptious Kristen]

You don't know any Vikes fans, do you? I'm a lifelong Vikings fan, and I continue to hope that someday they'll have an actual QB. A franchise QB, and not these stopgap old dudes they have loved since the 90's, and these high-draft-pick young'uns who do nothing.

[Brett L]

Seriously, when a team like, oh, the Houston Oilers, waives a franchise quarterback who has done nothing in the post-season but get a domestic violence law named after himself, don't pick him up!

[LTC(ret) John]

Blaine Gabbert is probably the worst thing going - I never did understand the hype when he was drafted. I only saw him play 3 games in college - and my reaction was "meh".

[Brett L]

This is what happens when people mistake physical stats - tall, strong, passed the IQ test! - with football ability.

[Rasilio]

Uh yeah he is. Tebow is by far a better football player and athlete than guys like Cassle, Ponder, and Gabbert but he is not a better QB.

Further while he is probably not worse than every teams 3rd string QB he is probably not one of the top 95 QB's in the US either.

Face it, Tebow can't throw and while that might not have been a problem for him back in the 3 yards and a cloud of dust 70's, in todays NFL a 48% completion rate just will not cut it, especially not given that he actually had some pretty good talent around him.

Tebow has basically 3 choices at this point...

1) Go play in Canada where he still probably isn't a good enough QB to be a legit starter but will put enough fans in seats that he'll get the chance.

2) Sign somewhere as a H-back/TE and announce he's never going to play QB again.

3) Retire from Football

[Auric Demonocles]

Tebow would be worse off in the CFL than the NFL. They throw even more there.

[robc]

Vinny Testaverde disagrees.

Supposedly he and Weinke fixed Tebow's footwork this off-season so now he has a good throwing motion.

Whether to trust a Miami and FSU alum to fix a Gator is another question.

[Virginian]

"Nah Tim, what you need to do, the real secret, is to close your eyes right as you release. I don't know why it works, but it does."

"Gee thanks Mr. Testaverde."

"No problem son."

[robc]

It worked for Fernando Valenzuela.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Vapor lock!

[robc]

You left off option 4) Go to a team willing to build an offense around his skills as a QB.

[robc]

Speaking of option 4, I think he would be a good backup for RG3 in DC.

No threat to the starting spot and when Griffin gets hurt, Tebow can run the same plays, just not as well.

[John]

Further while he is probably not worse than every teams 3rd string QB he is probably not one of the top 95 QB's in the US either.

So there are 95 QBs who could lead a team to a playoff win? Doubtful. As horrible as guys like Gabbert and Ponder are, they are still probably in the top 40 quarterbacks in the world. There are only 32 jobs available. Brady Quinn and Matt Cassle are both going to be backups. Sorry, but no way is Tebow at his worst not better than both of those guys.

[Auric Demonocles]

Unrelated to Tebow, why do you hate Cassel so much? You purposely misspell his name and ignore two seasons of very good play( TD:int of 21:11 and 27:7, over 3000 yards,passer ratings around 90) and act like he sucks. Why?

[John]

I hate Cassel because I am a Chiefs fan and he basically set the franchise back 10 years. The Chiefs last year had the number 5 rushing team in the NFL. Yet, they had the 32nd worst offense. They were also the worst or near the worst in Red Zone offense in the league. That is unheard of. They had one of the top five running backs in the league, And they couldn't score in the red zone.

Basically the Chiefs were a double blind test case of how important quarterback play is in the NFL. Cassel was last year by any objective measure the worst quarterback in the modern era. Just pathetic.

[Auric Demonocles]

What he really sucked at last year was turnovers, and it was very very bad. But that was one year. You act like he's the worst quarterback career-wise too.

Also didn't the Chiefs still blow pretty hard without him? He only played what, 8 games?

[John]

That is because his backup was Brady Quinn. And Cassel was horrible the year before as well. Cassel had two years, one with the Patriots and one with the Chiefs, where the entire offense was built around preventing him from losing the game, and even then those teams were only able to squeak by wins against bad teams. Neither team had any prayer against a good team playing well.

He is just horrible.

[Bobarian]

This -- and to pile on, when Cassel had decent stats in those two seasons, he still was feast or famine. He was the greatest QB in the league when the game was already decided, but always sucked when it mattered.

A total fail in pressure situations.

[Rasilio]

"So there are 95 QBs who could lead a team to a playoff win"

First off, Tebow didn't lead anyone to a playoff win, the team won inspite of him, not because of him.

Second, sure there are probably a couple of hundred including a few dozen retired greats that could throw on a uniform today and lead a team to a playoff win (they just couldn't last through a whole season) to college QB's who played Baseball instead to fringe NFL'ers who may or may not be on rosters.

As Trent Dilfer showed with his Superbowl ring, with a good enough defense and running game you don't need a great QB to win in the playoffs, just a good enough one.

[John]

First off, Tebow didn't lead anyone to a playoff win, the team won inspite of him, not because of him.

That is why that same Denver team went so much further in the playoffs with Payton Manning at quarterback the next year. Except of course they didn't. If the Broncos were so good they could win a playoff game in spite of Tebow, why couldn't they win a playoff game with Manning at quarterback?

People act like Denver had this great team that managed to win in spite of Tebow. No they really didn't. If they had, they would have gone somewhere with Manning as their QB.

[Bobarian]

This, too --

When Denver lost to the Patsies in Tebow's second playoff game, it was in spite of Tebow's play. The Denver Defense lost that game.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

First off, Tebow didn't lead anyone to a playoff win, the team won inspite of him, not because of him.

That would be news to Pittsburgh.

[cavalier973]

"Tim Tebow blackballed by NFL teams because of cult-like following, media frenzy"

Right. Because if there's one thing a sports team eschews above all else, it is someone who can increase ticket sales.

[Too_Big_to_Fail]

O/T I'm sitting in a CENTCOM regional studies class, and was just told by my instructor that, doctrinally, republics are authoritarian and direct democracies are most free.

[John]

Top Men.

[Lord Humungus]

so that's what Tony does for a living.

[LTC(ret) John]

Socrates agrees!

[LTC(ret) John]

Socrates agrees!

[LTC(ret) John]

Squirrelz, what gives?

[UnCivilServant]

I don't know. Yesterday they ate and later regurgiated one of my posts. So I gave up trying to predict them.

[db]

They are really acting up today.

[Brett L]

Ask him (her?) what happens when you're in the 49.99% in a direct democracy.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Bring plenty of lube.

[UnCivilServant]

Given the number of idiots in society, there needs to be some form of protection against the 50%+1.

[Pro Libertate]

Wait, what?

[cavalier973]

Did you and your classmates subsequently vote to not have homework?

[The Late P Brooks]

republics are authoritarian and direct democracies are most free.

*pounds head on desk*

[The Late P Brooks]

The end result of this proposal will of course be higher tuition, larger university empires and more student debt.

Something tells me the Higher Education Plutocracy, if you locked them in a dungeon interrogation room and pumped them full of Truth Serum, would confess to fearing and despising the widely dispersed on line education movement in exactly the same way Chuck Schumer fears and despises the 3D printed handgun.

[Brett L]

You don't have to do all that. Just look at the way they set their minions to reviling the for-profit model. And I can see why. FSU apparently tore down its perfectly adequate student health facility to build a bigger and better one that has a "movement center" (I shit you not, the gf was telling me about it last night as it is apparently free to faculty and staff this week) which as best I can tell is a gym with only cardio equipment. And a host of other bullshit things that do not promote higher learning. What schools are doing to the average non-STEM student would be criminal fraud in the private sector.

[Bobarian]

"reviling the for-profit model."

What other model is there?

[Virginian]

What other model is there?

An excellent point. There are a lot of people who do very well for themselves doing good for others.

[Brett L]

In education? How about the spending other people's money model?

[Bobarian]

But they're spending it for profit

[Agammamon]

THe Air Force *still* has nuclear missiles? WTH for?

[sticks]

for the lulz

[Archduke Pantsfan]

he did say Italian supercars.

[Elspeth Flashman]

I stop watching once the team I'm hoping for is out of the race.

[Elspeth Flashman]

Yes, it's the DRW.

[LTC(ret) John]

DETROIT SUCKS! DETROIT SUCKS!

/hangs old 1993 Dino Ciccarelli effigy