Can We All Admit That Birth Control is A) Not That Expensive B) Over-Regulated and C) a Flashpoint for Public Policy?
As liberal critics seek "to silence Rush" Limbaugh (in the words of the Drudge Report) because of the radio jock's bizarre and unseemly rant about contraceptive activist Sandra Fluke, it's probably time to take a few deep breaths and do a quick reality check reagarding President Obama's health care plan.
For starters, the conservative outfit CNS is reporting that Target stores in the DC area advertise birth-control pills for $9 a month.
On Tuesday, Fluke spoke at an event at the U.S. Capitol in celebration of women's history month. After the event, CNSNews.com asked Fluke: "Were you aware of the Target store that's 3 miles from Georgetown Law that sells a month's supply of birth control pills for $9 a month without insurance coverage? Were you aware of that?"
Fluke said: "So, I'm not familiar with specific department store policies. I know that some generic forms of contraception are less expensive than others and that that has been widely reported. But what has not been widely reported is that many women cannot use those forms of contraception."
It's true that some women will have conditions that drive up the price of birth control (though there's always condoms), but come on already. The plain fact is that, as a rule, you can get birth control very cheaply. And even getting a prescription for pills shouldn't cost very much. Every city and town (and certainly virtually all universities) offers free or near-free clinics for exams.
Which leads to the second point: Health-care reform was supposed to bend the cost-curve down, right? Wasn't that the whole point? That if we rejiggered how and what health care was delivered, things would get cheaper, just as they have in virtually every other aspect of our commercial lives? Citing a great column by former Reason editor Virginia Postrel a few weeks back, I asked why the hell do you need a prescription for birth control in the first place? Here's Postrel:
Making the pill available over the counter could reduce the amount of outrage and invective available for entertaining radio audiences, spurring political fundraising and otherwise amusing the American public. But the medical risks are quite low….
Birth-control pills can have side effects, of course, but so can such over-the-counter drugs as antihistamines, ibuprofen or the Aleve that once turned me into a scary, hive-covered monster. That's why even the most common over-the-counter drugs, including aspirin, carry warning labels. Most women aren't at risk from oral contraceptives, however, just as most patients aren't at risk from aspirin or Benadryl, and studies suggest that a patient checklist can catch most potential problems….
And to the extent that checklists can't, certainly we can come up with procedures to deal with those rare cases. Because as this whole contraceptive mandate thing drags on, it's inarguable that public policy and human reproduction should be kept as far away from each other as possible. If we're going to insist on publicly funding health care, we would be better served by covering as little as possible not simply from a financial point of view but from a pluralistic point of view. If everybody is paying for everybody else's health care, then everybody has some say in everybody's lifestyle. Why should I be on the hook for a skier's idiotic (to me!) decision to risk breaking life and limb? Should elective surgeries be covered? And if so, who decides what's elective and what isn't? And on and on.
Obamacare isn't even fully operational yet and it's causing more trouble than a bull in a china shop. And that's not even factoring the likeliehood that the first decade of the program may cost twice as much as initially advertised.
Here's the great Remy, making the case for the cough drop mandate:
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"If everybody is paying for everybody else's health care, then everybody has some say in everybody's lifestyle."
To some of its proponents, that is a feature, not a bug.
weigh ins for food stamps.
Compulsory health checks for models.
The cost of BC and what I believe Sandra Fluke includes as such
http://rctlfy.wordpress.com/20.....fat-liars/
It also includes large doses of rohyponol for any prospective inseminator.
Poor baby, if you're afraid of women don't ever go here
I'm just saying that I wouldn't hit that with your dick. That's what's so ridiculous about Ms. Fluke becoming the symbol of contraceptives. There is no way she needs them for the on-label use.
I call my didlo George not Dick
You'll have to be more specific. Which of the "herd" is George again?
Calling womens' activists unattractive is such a lame overused cliche and basically just says you have no real arguments. Plus it's not even true in this case, she's quite cute. Wrong, sure, but cute. Come back when you have something real to contribute.
Calling womens' activists unattractive
I don't know about a cliche...I would hit it.
In fact her obvious stupidity enhances her attractiveness.
Always fun to sport fuck the stupid.
Plus it's not even true in this case, she's quite cute.
(Psssst: somebody has been drinking.)
Calling womens' activists unattractive is such a lame overused cliche and basically just says you have no real arguments. Plus it's not even true in this case, she's quite cute. Wrong, sure, but cute. Come back when you have something real to contribute.
New here?
They judge all women by their tits/ass and age
They judge all women by their tits/ass and age
Who says we judge age?
Ahh irony
I love it.
You know that is untrue. You claim to be a woman, and we all hate you for the things you say, so you know it isn't true.
We would still despise you even if you were really hot.
Dear Marshall,
Every good book needs a preconscious mind; you will be my next virgin
I'm pretty sure it would not be possible to "have sex" with Sandra as there is a high likelihood she would classify that as "rape". I find her VERY unattractive, outright ugly actually, on the inside.
Where do I sign up?
I don't think they like white meat
Beautiful women, or beautiful women from Zibabwe? And why do you assume a brother is white?
She's racist
Good job, Rather.
Do they teach that look of outraged victimhood that Fluke always seems to have in women's studies classes?
I;m pretty sure "Looking Butthurt 101" is a prerequisite for "The Patriarchy 204: Why Men Are to Blame for Everything".
I declare winner.
Why would she need contraceptives if she's...oh, right, it was a figure of speech, never mind.
BAHAHAHAHAHAH. You glorious bastard.
Damn Rush Limbaugh for making Fluke look like anything more than an attention-seeking moron.
That's the biggest tragedy of all. She's a huge fool who has royally embarrassed herself. Yet somehow, she's now an object of sympathy due to Limbaugh's pompous pricktitude.
I agree. But the media and the left knew she looked like a buffoon. Had Limbaugh not been so stupid, they would have found another way to change the subject. That is just how they roll.
The nonsense over Limbaugh's nonsense will pass. The nonsense of what Fluke and other idiots are advocating will still remain, and it will still be obvious nonsense.
The nonsense over Limbaugh's nonsense will pass.
Not before LA loses a 1st amendment case for outlawing Rush on federal airwaves.
Not before LA loses a 1st amendment case for outlawing Rush on federal airwaves.
Ah....the win/win scenario yet again!
It was said before, and should be said again, she should be sending Rush Limbaugh flowers. Others made that point, and I specifically said that she's on the VIP list for every progressive cocktail party in the nation. And the post proves me right.
The real cool part is fluke rejected Limbaugh's apology. No class and dumb. If she would have accepted it she might have stopped red lining on the stupid-o-meter.
I have no doubt that Limbaugh's apology had all the sincerity of a guy who wasn't very sincere.
Having said that, by not accepting the apology, sincere or not, she continues the controversy, which is the point.
The progressives have turned this argument into sexism while they're making off with a healthcare mandate. The strategy is genius, and libertarians could learn something from it.
like a libertarian could ever apologize!
I'm sorry that you blogwhore here.
See it's doable.
I'm sorry that your arms are as thick as your thighs. Totes doable.
Are we allowed to say Media-Slut?
+1
The Jacket seems to have developed some sort of feud with alt-text.
The jacket has transcended alt-text.
BTW, these are the worst alt-texts ever.
This is like the worst chat room ever.
For the Rush pic: "See Bill? This what cigars are supposed to be used for." or "It's not an oral fixation when I do it." or "Bill Clinton and I have something in common afterall."
For the Fluke pic: "I'm a speshul snowflake... yes I am."
I'd love to see Gunny Hartman give Sandra Fluke a...motivational talk.
So you're saying that you haven't bothered to shop around at all for this product that you're claiming you need us to pay for?
I've found that it's quite common for self-appointed "advocates" to be quite unfamiliar with verious facts and policies as they relate to the issue they're advocating for.
For a prominent example of this see how ignorant gun control advocates are about both guns themselves and existing gun laws.
Being ignorant about guns is less stupid for gun control advocates since they're trying to get rid of guns. She's trying to get guns cheaply, but doesn't realize someone is selling them for a few bucks down the street.
She's not trying to get them cheaply... she's trying to get them for free.
Not because she can't afford it... but because it's a matter of principle... and social justice... and stuff like that.
Yeah, the principle of "gimme gimme gimme!"
Condoms and pills today, double-sided dildos tomorrow. Soon, we'll be paying for her anal lube. MARK MY WORDS.
Yup, that's about right ... Now Pay Up, Suckah!
She's one of those people who treats insurance as an all-you-can-eat buffet. No need to check the price if someone else is paying the tab.
These assholes are the ones driving up premiums for the rest of us.
PS: What is the feminine of asshole?
Asshoelle ?
bitch?
About the double cost figure: Politifact says that the "gross cost increase" is only 9%, not double , because of "revenue from taxes and penalties." I feel there is something wrong with the analysis, but I'm afraid I don't understand what. Does anyone else have an idea?
"revenue from taxes and penalties" seems like another term for "cost."
But it's not a cost. This would be money coming in, not being payed out.
Target, Walgreen's, CVS, and even Wal-Mart all offer generic birth control pills for prices cheaper than I paid when I had insurance and a co-pay. The information is available on the internet under their low-cost prescription plans. Some places charge about $25 or so a year to join. Others, like Wal-Mart, do not. And yes, I certainly would expect a contraceptives advocate to have researched these things.
Why should facts get in the way of Fluke's narrative? Nobody else seems to give a damn about them anymore.
No one does. She told a great story that brought attention to an important issue. Who cares if it was all true?
Facts are misogynistic.
facts are male?
Who knew! 😉
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Best Jack Nicholson Character Ever: I think of a man, and I remove reason, and accountability.
I love that movie
"" Why should I be on the hook for a skier's idiotic (to me!) decision to risk breaking life and limb? ""
I'm pretty sure you are with your private insurance plan. Well at least the skiers that have the same plan as you.
I'm not comfortable with risk based insurance based on the notion that you would need to list your activites for risk analysis and you would be restricted from trying things you wouldn't normally due to non-coverage if hurt while trying.
I agree. I will happily pay for the consequences of you doing dumb shit for the privilege of being insured when I do my dumb shit.
Same here. And I don't like the idea of private companies demanding full disclosure of my activites any more than government demanding such.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....l_national
Consider, if you must declare your activities to your insurance company, the government will get them with a NSL and keep them for pretty much as long as they want.
Yeah, that's a threadjack for government considering expanding how long the government can hold intelligence information on a US citizen.
You have to do it for life insurance, at least for policies over a minimal amount. I don't see why it's unreasonable for a company to figure out what it's getting into before it agrees to contract with you. They are at a severe informational disadvantage. If you don't let them do it, then they will use gross overgeneralizations based on height/weight/gender/age to try to figure out their risk.
I hate it when that happens.
All insurance is risk based. That's kind of the point.
Sure. But what risks they take into account is up to the company.
I'd be happy to have a cheaper plan because I tend not to participate in life-threatening activites. Why should I not be permitted to buy one?
Not in a way that excludes an idiotic skier from Nick's policy cost. Covering that skier is part of his cost.
What Vic said. They charge for health risks not behavioral risks.
To buy homeowner's insurance, they ask if you have a fireplace, smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, etc., so how is this any different?
""so how is this any different""
Items and behaviors are very different things.
Try applying for life insurance. They'll ask you about all kinds of behaviors. And if you have any particularly risky ones, they'll charge you more or exclude that risk entirely.
I simply don't qualify for any kind of life insurance. Do you think my personal habits have something to do with that?
Habittually pissing people off can be a life-threatening condition.
Your homeowner's insurance doesn't assess your behavioral risks.
yes, it does.
What's questions? I'm curious.
They mine for lawsuits /irresponsibility: dog biting, DUI, smoking..
Identical ins. properties can pay a difference of over 1k based on X (profession, fiscal strength...)
Home insurance gotchas
Make sure your reputation is solid: The insurance industry bases decisions on whether to do business with you by assessing your risk profile, which includes the frequency and amount of your claims, as well as the underlying reasons for each claim you filed, during the past five years. This information is contained in your homeowner and auto records file. In some states, your credit history is also factored into the equation.
Then get a plan that doesn't ask that stuff (it might cost more). But if I want to live a super safe life, don't prevent my plan from existing.
I don't actually want a super safe life.
I am.
You aren't restricted from participating in those activities. It just means you pay a bit more for insurance.
Alt text.
The man's cigar is bigger than my girlfriend's penis.
I'd have labeled Rush "David Koch" and Fluke "Ed Crane."
I like that. Am I wrong to just no give a flying fuck about the whole Cato civil war?
Why yes, yes you are. Cato has been a decent source of libertarian influence in DC, a place not swimming in libertarianism. While I think it did a better job of that in the past (there seemed to be some major moments for them back in the 90s), we're not awash in alternatives if it blows apart.
"IF" it blows apart?
Cato's place in libertarianism was pretty much secured with its piece on the Kansas City Schools experiement alone.
with Team Soros. Kind of a big deal.
You know, I've seen a few accusations hereabouts that Crane and others in Cato these days are "liberaltarians." Is that true? I'm not as up on the goings-on there as I once was.
Some people want to know who Bob Levy has been talking to in order to replace Koch sponsorship given Levy has been advocating dissolving the share holder agreement he has to have someone in place to be take seriously by the other members. Rumors to who that may be are troubling and seem bent towards a left axis though I'd prefer not to spread anything beyond what can be confirmed.
Huh. Well, I hope it isn't true, because the whole idea of a left-libertarian alliance is totally and absolutely absurd. The current iteration of the left in the U.S. is too completely statist to ally with.
Aside from the logical, one of the cheapest pills for contraception is the common aspirin.
As mom used to tell my kid sister. put one pill between your knees and don't let it drop.
Let's see... 50 aspirin are what, $2?
Santorum's first H&R post?
Too bad she couldn't follow her own advice
That won't necessarily work 100% of the time either. There are sexual positions that don't require the woman to spread her legs. You'd know that if you'd ever tried anything other than missionary. Or watched some porn.
Actually, I just became really good at giving blow jobs.
Maybe everyone should send a condom to Susan Fluke care of Georgetown Law School. Just send thousands of them in the mail.
That, or a target gift card for $9.
No, she might spend it unwisely. I think John's right--condoms.
Condoms probably cost more than $9 a month. Anyway, the target gift card makes the point better about her lack of knowledge of the actual cost of the thing she's lobbying about.
Pretty sure you'd be labeled a domestic terrorist, and I doubt you'd get the comfy digs in Gitmo as a result.
All the same, I like the cut of your jib.
That's a pretty hilarious idea. I think you could totally pull it off with a little crowdsourcing.
People are still talking about this shit?
Any chance we can get some statistics on the "nearly every city and town" having free clinics?
Awful lot of assuming, not a lot of data.
As an example, The National Association of Free and Charitable Clinics says there's only one within 100 miles of Boise, Idaho (and none w/in 10 or 25 miles).
http://nafcclinics.org/
I'm down with making BC over-the-counter but the reflexive libertarian hand wave about services for the working poor is endlessly irritating.
I had no idea they picked cherries in Idaho.
What does that even mean?
You're not very bright, are you Jeff?
Dude, you're looking in the wrong place. There's four in or around Boise and one in Caldwell. And if you're a student at Boise St, there's the student clinic.
See the state list for more clinics elsewhere
http://www.healthandwelfare.id.....fault.aspx
If you just need birth control or related services, there's the Planned Parenthood clinic off State too.
There has always been FREE birth control--it is called abstinence. It is the only form of birth control that is foolproof.
Birth control has turned sex from procreation to recreation. Now the Federal government wants taxpayers to pay for someones right to play with sex.
Well, I want my recreation paid for as well. I want a new pony, feed, and board as well. A pony is cheaper and easier than a child.
She can still have sex and not engage in activities that will result in pregnancy. Just sayin'.
Good point. I need a subsidy for my video gaming. I need at least $1,000/year to ensure adequate computing and monitor power, along with a game acquisition allowance.
Actually, $1,000 isn't enough. I need some professional advice on this--how big should my subsidy demands be? Come on, hurry it up, Diablo III is coming out in less than two months.
Well, assuming a reasonable annual PC upgrade, plus biweekly new game purchases, and a new console (of each of the three majors) every five years or so, that averages out to about $2600 per year.
Of course, I didn't take into account the increased entertainment needs in November and December, or Mountain Dew and Cheetos expenses.
No, no, I'm willing to settle for a mere technology subsidy. As a former law student, I, too, have needs. Won't you help law students and former law students?
I like the $2,600 figure, as it ties back to the classic Atari 2600 console. The 2600 Plan. Best part is, young voters will love it.
Birth control is used for a lot more than just sex.......most women on birth control take it to help underlying medical conditions. I take it because I have endometriosis and having periods makes me very ill. I can't believe that, as a woman, you could make such an uneducated, misogynistic comment.
"most women on birth control take it to help underlying medical conditions"
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
Really.
There should be no judgement if a woman takes BCPs to prevent pregnancy. Do men really not want sex?
There's no judgment. I think it's great that science has created convenient ways for women to control their fertility, such that they can enjoy sex with a much-reduced risk of pregnancy.
But I still don't think anybody else should have to fucking pay for it.
I don't know about most, but it's true for some. Still, that's not the issue here.
I don't really want to pay for other people's healthcare in the first place, other than my family. Frankly, I think we could better handle the charity cases without the government's inept, corrupt, and politically motivated involvement.
Nobody's stopping you from taking birth control.
We're just saying it's your business to pay for it, without having the government mandate that someone else has to pay for it on your behalf.
"most women on birth control take it to help underlying medical conditions."
Did it hurt when you pulled that out of you @$%?
""There has always been FREE birth control--it is called abstinence. It is the only form of birth control that is foolproof.""
The 1950s is calling...
hello
You can disagree with the cultural philosophy that statement reflects, but it's not inaccurate.
I prefer giving head.
I think multiply divorced fat radio men and libertarian men and Republican men ought to continue getting their panties twisted over birth control, loudly and often.
The more lecturing of women on sexual morality, the better, also.
It's more about who has to pay for birth control, and you fuckin' well know it.
BTW, when has ANY libertarian EVER lectured anyone over their sex lives?
Well people here aren't comfortable with my being on the receiving end of a vigorous rogering!
Very poor Spoof Tony example. F+.
Sandra Fluke is a slute.
SOME birth control is cheap, some is not. The $9 pills at Target are ones that I personally could not take because they gave me horrible headaches. But if a student is forced to buy health insurance through their school, as Georgetown requires, they should cover ALL health care. Students shouldn't have to search the town for a free clinic or have to bargain shop for pills, either.
"...they should cover ALL health care."
And cosmetic surgery too. Boob jobs aren't cheap.
"""And cosmetic surgery too."""
Sorry that's not health care, unless it to cover an injury or a result of an illness like cancer.
Under what principle is BC (for the purpose of preventing pregnancy) healthcare while cosmetic surgery is not? Neither is for the purpose of preventing or curing an illness or injury.
Pregnancy IS an illness, you goddamn *spit* male oppressor.
...and do stay tuned for our re-branding as "Fisting: a blog for women confused"!
Is that what's next? Some tart testifying that she's not getting enough sex because her medical school won't pay for her to get free tit enhancements?
Georgetown forces student to buy health insurance from them? Really? Even undergrads still covered on mommy and daddy's policy? You're going to have to provide a cite for this claim, because I've never heard of a college requiring students to buy health insurance from them.
Georgetown forces student to buy health insurance from them?
It wouldn't surprise me at all to be forced to pay for additional coverage provided by the school while still covered by parents coverage. Another fine example of cost shifting.
Birth control isn't fucking health care.
Technically it is "fucking health care".
+1 internet for Loki.
1) Gtown doesn't require health insurance through the school. It requires that you have health insurance and offers a plan if you don't purchase it elsewhere. See http://studentaffairs.georgetown.edu/insurance/
2) No insurance plan covers ALL health care. Even under the PPACA minimum requirements, you still have to pay out of pocket for all sorts of stuff. In fact, even for birth control, where the kind you take is more expensive than generic and there is no medical reason you can't take the generic, you need to pay the difference yourself. The horror.
3) Not requiring people to shop around for the best deal on most healthcare is one of the main reasons it's so damn expensive. By making even more healthcare subject to this stupid idea, it will get even more expensive.
THIS.
Fuck all the people who think that because it's healthcare they shouldn't be "forced" to compare prices and make some fucking rational economic choices.
If there's ever a fucking revolution, those are the people I want taken out and shot first.
But if a student is forced to buy health insurance through their school, as Georgetown requires, they should cover ALL health care.
Georgetown allows a medical exemption for birth control pills when they are required to prevent serious health issues.
The main point is that Fluke is trying to get taxpayers to subsidize her sex life. I don't have a problem that she wants to go bareback when she gets laid--as Norm MacDonald said, "Sex without condoms feels better." I just don't see why I should have to pay for it.
I just don't see why I should have to pay for it.
That's only because you don't have a uterus. WAR ON WOMEN!
Students shouldn't have to search the town for a free clinic or have to bargain shop for pills, either.
Oh, the absolute HORROR! Taking a day to drive to the clinic? Taking an evening to call a couple pharmacies? HOW ON EARTH WILL THEY MANAGE?
If I want something, I find out where to buy it. If I want to get the best price, I may spend some time researching different brands and checking which store has the best price. It's not that bad.
"Students shouldn't have to search the town for a free clinic or have to bargain shop for pills, either."
Why the hell not? Why are students some sort of special case? This is life. You have needs, wants, desires. Budget your money and time as you see fit.
As a Woman's Health Advocate, I'm appalled by your comment.
If a woman wants something - ANYTHING - you should be forced to pay for it against your will. This is justice for thousands of years of oppression by the patriarchy.
[Quote] Students shouldn't have to search the town for a free clinic or have to bargain shop for pills, either. [/Quote]
And why the fuck not?
Exactly how does Georgetown prevent a student from purchasing healthcare insurance other than the school's offerings? How would they even know?
I'm not aware that Gerogetown forces students to uby insurance through them.
Every university I have ever attended (4 of them) allowed students to use their own insurance. Some required you to have some form of insurance, or they would auto-enroll you in the student health plan, but you could always buy your own plan and show proof of it it get out of that.
Is Georgetown the only law school in the country? Go to another school that does cover birth control with their health plan.
fluke/flo?ok/Noun:
2.A parasitic flatworm (classes Trematoda and Monogenea, phylum Platyhelminthes) that typically has suckers and hooks for attachment to... the public trough, for no good reason whatsoever.
All power to the Soviets
Is the Romney campaign like an Etch A Sketch?
Here's a thought:
1. Don't subsidize Viagara or Cialis.
2. Don't subsidize birth control.
What? Too simple?
1. Don't subsidize Viagara or Cialis.
2. Don't subsidize birth control.
How about we stick with don't require insurance to cover them.
And how about instead of employee insurance people go out and get their own....you know so poeple are choosing their coverage rather then their fucking boss choosing it.
That, too.
For a slut, she is pretty hot.
Well it always helps to look good in a NAZI officers cap while holding a riding crop!
The last time I saw a man suck on something that greedily was in a bathroom stall at a gay bar.
While I LOVE the idea of making hormonal birth control O-T-C, I doubt Democrats would go along with an idea that would force women to pay for birth control 100% out-of-pocket, even if it would dramatically increase access and lower cost overall.
Let men pay for their stuff, and women pay for their stuff.
This ain't rocket surgery.
Having insurance pay for birth control is as brilliant as having insurance pay for a dental cleaning.
HuffPo stoopid:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....50517.html
Team Blue thinking rots the brain.