A.M. Links: Obama to Unveil $5 Billion Jobs Plan, Israel Preps for War With Iran, Unemployment Falls to 8.3 Percent

• Obama has a jobs plan proposal for veterans. It will cost $5 billion. 

• Unemployment falls to 8.3 percent. 
• Israel is getting ready to bomb Iran. 
• Westerners really don't want that to happen. 
• Planned Parenthood doesn't need Susan G. Komen anyway. 
• Lawmakers offer to slap themselves on the wrist. 

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New at Reason.tv: "China and Transportation: What We Can Learn In The United States"

Comments

[el Commentariosa]

Podium!

[Almanian]

I like that Fist of Etiquette doesn't always claim "Fist!", even though he could.

Which, I guess, is why he's the Fist of Etiquette.

SO polite!

[bi]

Bi-sexual information?Seeking for the people have the same sexual orientation. please consult the site ---datebi*cO'm---, you will find the like-minded people!

[o3]

^who is this idiot?

[Bi Polar]

I don't know, but if you consult the site ---datebi*cO'm---, you will find the like-minded people!

[o3]

^the idiot was bi-cloned

[Fist of Etiquette]

Wait, that's what everyone's been doing this whole time? I thought it was just a typo. Like when everyone keeps misspelling "owned". That's why I'm designing a new keyboard where the o and the p are reversed and there's a little bit extra room between them. I think it could help a lot of people on the internet. In the meantime, I suggest everyone avail themselves of the preview feature whenever possible.

[el Commentariosa]

No no no, what happens is on the PM links we yell FIST! to ridicule him that they continue to be a real thing and are not going away.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I SAID EVENING LINKS WOULDN'T LAST AND THEY DIDN'T.

P.M. Links is an entirely different animal.

[RoboCain]

You should work for Obama.

[Fist of Etiquette]

We all do now. That's how those unemployment figures are shrinking.

[DJF]

It seems that when Skynet takes over we will not only have to worry about humanoid terminators, and 30 foot tall terminators but now swarms of flying mini robots

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDmel?feature=watch

[jacob]

Dammit! 2nd

[RoboCain]

Komen hacked:

http://colorlines.com/archives.....surge.html

Jezebel shitstorm:

http://jezebel.com/disgrace-for-the-cure/

[jacob]

Not sure if I'm alone here, but I don't give a flip that SGK pulled money from Planned Parenthood. I get the breast exams they give to women, but SGK is a private entity and they have every right to disburse their funds as they see fit. I simply don't foresee a surge in breast cancer because Planned Parenthood isn't getting money from SGK. Bloomberg has already stated he plans to donate quite a bit of money to PP (like 200K).

Non-story if you ask me.

[Quetzalcoatl]

jacob: I get the breast exams they give to women

...

[jacob]

Well-played sir.....

[Totally a Dr. AuH20]

I give breast exams! We should talk.

[Totally a Dr. AuH20]

Also, I think it is because of mission creep. PP was started by Sanger to hand out condoms and the like so that the darkies wouldn't have kids. It now also provides a variety of female health services, which makes no sense but whatever.

So now, if you cut funding to PP, they can say, "YOU'RE KILLING LOW INCOME WOMEN!"

As to the affection- PP is feminist PBS. Sure, it gets most of its funding from private sources, but the idea of pulling the little public money it does get makes the left howl in rage. "You just want the slack jawed yokels to watch NASCAR and tractor pulls and the corporate owned media and be ignorant!" Furthermore, imagine if some sponsor pulled PBS funding because some special PBS aired was deemed too racy or whatever. There would be a shitstorm on Daily Kos.

In this case, Susan G Komen is the Carnegie Foundation pulling PBS funding.

[RoboCain]

Last I heard, PP gets $500 million a year from the Uncle Sam. While tiny compared to the whole budget, I wouldn't exactly call that "little public money".

[R C Dean]

What's interesting to me isn't that Komen pulled their money, but that Planned Parenthood comes off so thuggy in their reaction.

If I was thinking about giving to PP, I'd be thinking twice, because I wouldn't want the shitstorm if I decided next year to do something else.

[JW]

If I was thinking about giving to PP, I'd be thinking twice, because I wouldn't want the shitstorm if I decided next year to do something else.

Clearly, you aren't thinking about it. Because if you were, your response, judging from the responses on FaceBook, would be ZOMG!!11!1WTF!DIAFKOMEN!1BLAAAAAARRRRRGLE~#$@*&FARGLLLLLLLLE;!!!11!!ELEVENTY!!!

[Invisible Finger]

The problem is these giant foundations can't keep themselves anonymous. They WANT to affect policy and they WANT you to know it, which means they really aren't as charitable as they want you to believe.

If the Komen Foundation would just shut the fuck up and give the money away instead of marketing itself as the HIGHLY IMPORTANT KOMEN FOUNDATION then Planned Parenthood would be pissing into the wind when the Komen Foundation makes a different decision.

[T]

If I was thinking about giving to PP, I'd be thinking twice, because I wouldn't want the shitstorm if I decided next year to do something else.

That's the exact discussion me and Mrs. T were having last night. I'd be especially leery of it were I a lrage foundation. WEhy risk the shitstorm because next year, somebody else makes a more compelling case? I don't need the shitstorm about 'pulling my support', as if by me giving once, PP is entitled to my money until the end of time.

[Maxxx]

as if by me giving once, PP is entitled to my money until the end of time.

WTF

Next you're gonna say that the unemployed don't have a right to expect government support.

[Totally a Dr. AuH20]

Or Free Healthcare!

[RoboCain]

I wouldn't give a dime to PP, considering the amount of money they spend on lobbying and liberal feminist propaganda.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

If I was thinking about giving to PP, I'd be thinking twice, because I wouldn't want the shitstorm if I decided next year to do something else.

Well, except for the small fact you aren't a massive, media-visible institution...

[Trespassers W]

I understood RC to mean "If I were [a massive, media-visible institution] thinking about giving to PP..."

[R C Dean]

You understood correctly.

[You're profoundly stupid Rev]

.

[Korduroy Kristen]

The PP thing doesn't piss me off nearly as much as Komen spending big bucks to retain lawyers to send cease & desist letters to small organizations and even individuals using the term "for the cure". Maybe they fucking copyrighted the fucking phrase, but if they were really concerned about a cure for breast cancer they wouldn't mind others raising money for the cause. Instead they're trying to push out competition just like every rent seeking bastard. The people they've sent these letters to are very small-time operators, like a woman in Alaska who wanted to have a dog sled race "for the cure".

So I'm glad that this PP shitstorm hit, because I've been hatin on Komen for a while.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

Komen is just another obnoxious advocacy group. They'll spend it all on publicity and lobbying. If you really want to supporrt breast cancer research, you can cut me a check.

[Sparky]

Why do people have to be so stupid? FTA:

Eliminating this funding will mean there's no place for these women to go. Where are these women to go to have a mammography? Do they not deserve to have mammography?

Is the Susan G Komen foundation the only place that Planned Parenthood gets funding from? WTF!!!!!!

[John Thacker]

Also weird because PP doesn't actually do mammography much that I'm familiar with. They do breast exams (and other things like Pap smears), but if they find something suspicious, they refer to doctors. They do provide transportation and so forth for women to get mammography.

If PP didn't exist, those women would still get mammography. However, those women would have a huge problem with access to abortion, which is an area where PP is often the sole provider.

Yet there's this weird dancing around the issue of abortion by both Komen and the PP defenders.

[o3]

radio meme. PP pays the doctors for breast for xrays, etc.

>keep pushing the anti-woman AND anti-hispanic agenda & see what happens at BOTH federal & state levels.

[o4]

u mean there's not enough old fat white guys to retain any majority except in the old south?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Wait, anti-hispanic? Dare I ask what that's about?

[CoyoteBlue]

Interesting incentives being setup here. If you provide grants to an organization, and then end those grants, for any reason -- the Great Leftest Horde of Harridans will decend on you like locusts.

So don't get in bed with these sorts of organizations in the first place?

[R C Dean]

Yup. "Hard to fire, hard to hire."

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

I work at a pretty high volume breast clinic, and I can't recall more than a few patients who've been referred for mammo by Planned Parenthood. The groups that seems to do the heavy lifting around here for low-income women are the catholic charities.

[Maxxx]

But Catholic charities are icky and should have their funding pulled.

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

I will say that in my area, the only low-income group of any size is conservative Hispanic immigrants, not exactly Planned Parenthood's target demographic. So take my anecdote with a grain of salt.

[Totally a Dr. AuH20]

Hey, PP has always been for whitey, dating back to Sanger.

Also, Catholics are icky because they don't support abortion or contraception, even though it fits with their faith-reason doctrine.

[John Thacker]

PP pays the doctors for breast for xrays, etc.

Yeah, but the Komen money is going to for women's health, it just won't go through PP, except in three locations where PP truly is the only provider. So I don't understand your point.

[John Thacker]

It's not like Komen said, "Suckers, we're keeping the money and not spending it on women's health!" They're still going to be spending the money on women's health and mammograms and screenings.

It's obviously about abortion. It's disingenuous of both Komen and PP's defenders to pretend otherwise.

[SIV]

Planned Parenthood is a corporation that murders. Progressives generally don't like corporations but they love dem sum eugenics.

[o3]

u mean like blackwater & halliburton?

[Eduard van Haalen]

George W. Lucifer Bush - is there anything he *can't* be blamed for?

[CoyoteBlue]

George Bush gave me breast cancer!
Now I can't even walk!

[o3]

only i culd be stupid enuf to equate blackwater and halliburton with eugenics derpity derp

[RW Corporatists]

cause corporate murder aint murder unless we say it is

[nicole]

Some PPs do do mammography onsite, though most don't, but do, as you say, provide referrals and transportation (which can be a big deal for many poor women and for those for whom PP is the primary care provider).

I have no issue with "dancing around abortion" personally, but as far as I am concerned, PP is a provider of women's health services, and is the primary provider of those services to a huge number of women. Abortion is one of those services. So are breast exams, pap smears, STI tests, and even prenatal care! My problem is when right-wingers use the fact that abortion is one of those services to pretend that it's the only one, or the one relied on most by the average PP patient.

[Invisible Finger]

I'd be willing to bet that a PP office in Illinois ISN'T ALLOWED BY LAW to do mammography. The state has cartellized health services and then wonders why health services cost so damn much.

I'd have shitloads of respect for a "foundation" that works to expose this kind of socialist bullshit. Instead, I think foundations like Komen are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

[bosty]

Is the Susan G Komen foundation the only place that Planned Parenthood gets funding from?

I know they've seen an uptick in contribution, but I wonder just how many of the outraged actually donated to PP.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Enough to entirely replace the money that they didn't get from Komen. Probably double, if the reports of Bloomberg giving 6 figures are true.

[RoboCain]

http://thegloss.com/odds-and-e.....versy-163/

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

I swear, if Obama went on the TV today and declared that this country is now a totalitarian police state with him as Dictator For Life, all he'd have to do to get the Left on board would be to say "abortions will be legal and free under my reign".

[Totally a Dr. AuH20]

Dude, did you miss feminism 101? He'd say "Free healthcare for all" and that would obviously include abortions which are healthcare.

[KDN]

At this point I'm thinking the whole sordid affair was thought up by their boards as a ploy to increase funding to both. All of the fundies giving to SGKF and the feminazis increasing their giving to PP out of solidarity can't be bad for business. And in a few moths they'll come to a nice compromise agreement where Komen's agrees to restore funding less the amount of material damage incurred as a result.

[RoboCain]

Obama hates Mexicans:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c.....ore-103281

[RoboCain]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/02.....-a-coward/

[Bee Tagger]

Will this receive the type of coverage Cindy Sheehan received?

[MSM]

No fucking way. hth

[RoboCain]

Assault weapons for me, but not for thee:

http://www.kionrightnow.com/st.....on-charges

[Rich]

The Councilwoman in her younger days. 😉

[RoboCain]

Attractive woman, but firing a rifle from the hip is still silly.

[John Wayne]

What's that pilgrim?

[db]

John Wayne was a fag.

[Pro Libertate]

The hell he was!

[T]

He was, too, you boys. I installed two-way mirrors in his pad in Brentwood, and he come to the door in a dress.

[invisible furry hand]

Ordinary fuckin' people, I hate 'em

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

I like the way she swings the muzzle around after firing and points it almost right at the camera man. Great firearm safe handling on display there.

She has a nice rack, though.

[asdf]

What gun?

[RoboCain]

""Gun control proponents stress the idea of harm reduction. They say the enactment of firearm regulations will reduce accidents and the criminal use of guns. But if policymakers are truly interested in harm reduction, they must consider the number of crimes that are thwarted by gun owners. Each year gun owners prevent a great deal of criminal mayhem?murders, rapes, batteries, and robberies."

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c.....t-edition/

[Almanian]

It's "harm reduction" all they way down.

[RoboCain]

Endowed Korea is Best Korea!

http://bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/_.....tudy-finds

[Almanian]

Kim il HUNG! Oh, snap!

[Twelve-Inch Pianist]

Removing fat from around that area can make what's left look bigger.

At last! The Secret!

[John]

The good news is that you too can be John Holmes. The bad news is you have to let some doctor stick a needle in your penis to do it.

[Abdul]

Maybe you need the needle to look like John Holmes. I just need to grow a mustache.

[jacob]

I'm not a Breitbart fan, but I saw this elsewhere and it made my blood boil. Can you imagine if the host were white, and he said similar comments to a white guest????

http://www.breitbart.tv/hate-t.....epublican/

[o3]

tu quoque fallacy

[Eduard van Haalen]

I know you are but what am I?

[RoboCain]

Why you should post boobs, not hire them:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....-2011.html

[RoboCain]

Rihanna is still black:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....londe.html

But not Allen West:

http://patdollard.com/2012/02/.....ngressman/

[Sparky]

What a Moran! Although, I think the article got his party affiliation wrong.

[PS]

(R-VA08) Representative Va-08.

[Sparky]

Ahh, my mistake. I don't read politicese.

[robc]

They called him a rep before that, that R refers to party (and got it wrong).

[Korduroy Kristen]

Yes, the R in parentheses refers to party, and he's most definitely a Democrat. And my Rep.

Yay.

[Matrix]

and people say that Republicans are racist...

[Matrix]

Oh, and around the internet, blacks are defending Moran's comments. No surprise there.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Imagine if West said that he was "excite[d]" by "whips and chains."

[Bender B. Rodriguez]

Black people have internet?

[mr simple]

Moran said, "Mr. West is not only not representative of the African-American community or of the Republican Party, let alone of the American public. So what he says really is of little or no consequence, but it's unfortunate."

lrn2grammer

It sounds like the sputtering nonsense of an irate idiot.

[Sparky]

I'll bet there's a reason for that.

[Ice Nine]

But not Allen West:
http://patdollard.com/2012/02/.....ngressman

I see what you did there.

[sarcasmic]

A very special something for John.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....graph.html

[Brett L]

Isn't this re-creation now illegal under UK law? Didn't we have a story about how taking photos that looked like another person's photos violated their copyright?

[sarcasmic]

I don't know if that picture violated copyright, but it sure violated any sense of decency one might have (unless they're a chubby-chaser, then shawing!).

[rac3rx]

The skinny one needs to shave her legs.

[o3]

Obama opens door to offshore wind power along mid-Atlantic coast
Interior Secretary Ken Salazar announced plans Thursday to open four new wind-leasing regions for wind farms along the mid-Atlantic coast. States look forward to a positive economic impact.

State officials praised the administration's decision, hailing its expected economic impact.

"To create jobs, a modern economy requires modern investments," said Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley. "Maryland has emerged as one of the leaders in the effort to harness the power of offshore wind."

Virginia's Maureen Riley Matsen, Deputy Secretary of Natural Resources and Senior Advisor on Energy to Governor Bob McDonnell, called the move "a critical step toward making the valuable wind resource off of Virginia's coast available."
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2.....ntic-coast

[John]

Winning the future by embracing 18th Century technology. Next up, Obama embraces horse and carriage commuting.

[Almanian]

John, THINK OF THE BUGGY-WHIP MAKERS!

Jobs created or saved, baby.

[John]

And low carbon emissions.

[Street Sweeper]

yeah, but..

[DesigNate]

Quiet you. At least that means you are employed.

[CoyoteBlue]

I'm still advocating for oxen-pulled barges on canals [CANALS!]. Or you could go with the Russian method and use the unemployed.
http://www.russianpaintings.ne....._volga.jpg

[John]

The C&O canal is still there. So is the Erie. That is what we need, a national program of canal building.

[Rail ROADZ]

What are we, chopped liver?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The best part is, you don't even have to pay them.

[Maxxx]

The guy in the second row on the left looks like a hippy that got lost.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

John, THINK OF THE BUGGY-WHIP MAKERS!

Except these days the buggy-whip factory would be set up in Mexico or China.

[Eff local controlz eh?]

because governors CANT, just cannot recognise something good for their states.

[Brett L]

18th? Don Quixote was tilting at windmills in the early 17th. And they were old then.

[Quixote]

Wind turbines move too fast to hit

[Sparky]

Nah, it's just like putting a stick through the spokes on a bicycle tire.

[Montani Semper Liberi]

That's not what several endangered species of eagles have told me.

[John]

Maybe more medieval technology. I guess we can turn the navy into galleys. Make everyone who objects into a galley slave.

[o3]

finally john something to run with. lets start w fat peeps then homos

[o3]

and then mental defectives leik me

[invisible furry hand]

Thank God the authorities took the appropriate measures against this scofflaw

[Sparky]

But we'll never get to know.

[invisible furry hand]

My excuse is that it's late and I'm tired. And stupid. Sorry.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....indow.html

[Sparky]

Proof that you don't need a gun to scare the citizenry.

[JW]

The two Pcs, who have not been named, were removed from front-line duty and were subject to an internal disciplinary hearing held behind closed doors.

But they pair were allowed back on duty after being cleared of any wrong-doing.
Gwent Police said the two officers 'met the highest standards of professional behaviour'.

Hold on. Let me find my *shocked* face.

[rac3rx]

You beat me to it...

[RoboCain]

"Kan Ka-leung used a cleaver to hack to death his mother and younger sister, later telling an ambulance officer that fewer people in the world would be more environmentally-friendly, the South China Morning Post reported."

http://www.iol.co.za/news/worl.....-1.1225805

[jacob]

The last sentence is the kicker:

[he] called emergency services because he had injured his hand.

[Brett L]

Even psycho killers are pansies nowadays.

[Sparky]

His mother and sister were psychos?

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

"chop wounds" made me lol just a bit, too.

[asdf]

Oh my god some of the comments for that article, so good.

[Sparky]

Roots, wrote

If you look at it, China is over populated and most of the Chine's Kids end up in American adoption agencies ( Undergound Black Market ) so you can only have one baby there, this boy he used Maths and this is the fomula ( woman produce more poeple ) so he tought two woman too many people, i am helping the govenment and also the World as whole as the number of poeple in this World is more than 7 billion now....and most population are Chines.....Stupid boy, read bible ( be fruitful and multiply ) Gen 1:28. 2012 is the year of Chaos

Spectacular!

[mad libertarian guy]

WTF!!! STUPIDITY!!!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Unemployment falls to 8.3 percent.

Just like all my file names.

[o3]

stay alert citizen for continued reductions.

[John Thacker]

As more and more people drop out of the labor force, yes.

[John Thacker]

Though I kid, the labor force was actually up this time. All around good report.

Of course, it took place in the face of the stimulus winding down and all that supposed "austerity" (the slight reduction in the rate of growth of government spending.)

It's a good thing that the Republicans got elected in the House to save Obama's presidency.

[R C Dean]

Though I kid, the labor force was actually up this time.

Although the participation rate held flat.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Though I kid, the labor force was actually up this time. All around good report.

Actually, it was crap:
http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=201459

"Not in labor force" numbers leaped upward on an annualized basis (seasonally adjusted the "right way") and what's worse on a raw basis 1.572 million people exited the labor force last month...That's 0.6% of the entire labor force that departed the working population in one month, three times the alleged drop in the unemployment rate.

Same link shows the employment-to-population ratio back below 58%.

When the entire picture is included, the drop in the U3 reflects people falling off the unemployment rolls without a job, and giving up on finding work.

[Maxxx]

the labor force was actually up this time.

Bullshit.

250k is no .2% of 150m

[Keith]

Just curious -- is this another case of the denominator (eligible workforce) dropping, or have there been legitimate gains?

[Brett L]

Little of both. I don't think job growth is keeping pace with the number of people who would traditionally be entering the work force, but there's a lot of dropping out going on.

[John Thacker]

This report is actually pretty positive on the workforce account, contrary to previous ones. The recovery as a whole can be criticized, and the labor force isn't back to the previous trend, but this result is pretty good.

Must be all that "austerity."

[gaijin]

The January number showed an more than 1 million people removed from the labor force...new methodology and what not from BLS.

[Obama re-election]

sounds good

[Teh Rich]

Awaiting your thanks, o3...

[RoboCain]

"Pelosi Praises Planned Parenthood's Corruption of Girl Scouts"

http://moonbattery.com/?p=7611

[RoboCain]

Tulisa Contostavlos is still hot:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....-deal.html

[sarcasmic]

meh

[jacob]

C'mon....she's hot. The outfit looks stupid though.

[sarcasmic]

double meh

[Ice Nine]

As (par for the course) does the boyfriend.

[Sparky]

Yes indeed, just right. I can see why sarcasmic says meh.

[JW]

Her hotness is completely nullified by the photo of the boyfriend, "Fazer," whose only setting seems to be 'stupify.'

[DesigNate]

Her face is okay.

[Quetzalcoatl]

BREAKING NEWS: Rapidly Aging Feminist Considers a Miserable Marriage in the Face of Lifelong Loneliness

[John]

My past boyfriends have been atheists or, like me, vaguely spiritual, but without subscribing to any organized religion. I like to believe there's something out there, some mysterious universal power, but it's not anything I try to define or pretend to understand. In fact, I embrace the enigma of it all and, as my best friend -- a self-described Buddhist -- likes to say, "all we know is that we just don't know." Can't we just embrace the mystery of life, simply be good and hope for the best?

I believe that is called nihilism with a happy ending.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Whenever I see these "Why can't people just be good?" laments, I can always tell it's the product of an unsophisticated, incurious mind.

[John]

That is one of my favorite eye rolling things people say. The other is the people, some of whom claim to be Christians, who have the warm fuzzy view of Jesus as this enlightened hippie teacher.

No Jesus was a scary, intense dude. He went around raising the dead and telling Jews their covenant with God was going to be revoked and Israel destroyed if they didn't repent. He wasn't exactly some bead sucking hippie.

[Apatheist]

He didn't exist so people can imagine him to be whatever they like. True Scotsman Christian arguments are hilarious considering the large variety of Christian thought out there.

[John]

I am not sure what you mean? I am not or at least don't intend to make a True Scotsman Christian argument. I am just looking at what I see in the bible and taking it at face value. When I think about what it must have been like to have been around a guy who did some of the things he did, I just can't see him being particularly cuddly. His disciples when following him to Jerusalem were described as being something to the effect (depending on the translation) of "amazed and afraid". That kind of says it all. From a Christian perspective, he was God's incarnation on earth. That is some pretty intense when you think about it. There is a reason why the first word out of an angel's mouth when confronting a man in the bible is "be not afraid".

[Apatheist]

See, this is a better explanation. It is the difference between:

No Jesus was a scary, intense dude.

And:

I am just looking at what I see in the bible and taking it at face value.

One is stating "he was" and the other is stating "my view of what he was."

And that's my point. There is a huge variety of what people take at face value from the bible. Look at all the ways people read the Constitution and the Bible has been interpreted for ten times as long.

[John]

There is a variety. But I think the ones who think that Jesus was the cuddly hippie are ignoring pretty key parts of his history. Are there things there that show it wasn't all fire and brimstone? Sure. But that is not the whole story. The whole story is of God's incarnation on earth. And that by its very nature is pretty awesome and scary to mere mortals like us.

What Jesus was is, by his very nature, a mystery. But whatever the hell he was, he wasn't Socrates. And those who try to make him such miss the point.

In fact, if you don't believe that he was divine, then you really are left with a dangerous nut. He told people to love him more than their families and to leave their possessions and previous lives behind. Not exactly a cuddly hippie kind of things to say.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Jesus the Progressive Liberal: "I have come not to bring peace, but a sword."

[o3]

but consider hesus teh socon: "Glory be to God! Pass thy hand-grenades"

[Sparky]

tl;dr

However, based on the title, maybe she should ask herself if religion is the real issue.

[asdf]

Based on the author picture I would concur.

[John]

I love that article. She is going to marry that guy, pop out four or five kids and be home schooling them reading the bible every day. You watch. And all of her spinster feminist friends will tell her how much they respect her choices but secretly loath her out of jealousy.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

It's a lot more likely that her SWPL friends end up ostracizing her from the group.

It will be a re-enactment of the scene from Chasing Amy when the Alyssa Jones character was expelled from her lesbian social circle once they found out she liked a serious deep dicking.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

If anyone is jealous of this:

Here's a sliver of the type of conversation we've had more than once:

"Jesus used to say..." (boyfriend says)
"Please don't quote Jesus. You know it makes me uncomfortable." (me, all squirmy)
"I wish you would open your mind a bit more. You would be such a powerful Christian woman..." (him, being sincere)
"You'll never convert me! I wish you would read Dawkins!" (me, in near tears)
"Jesus's love for me is real." (him, unwavering)
"I wish you would read Hitchens!" (me, in near tears)
"Jesus sacrificed for us. All of us." (him, unwavering)
"You love him more than me." (me, in tears)
"I do. I can't help it." (him, pious)

they should kill themselves. No, seriously, take-a-bunch-of-sleeping-pill-insert-the-exhaust-hose-jump-into-a-pool-of-piranhas kill themselves.

[John]

I am talking about after he converts her and she becomes the happy stay at home mother all feminist really want to be and hate themselves for wanting.

[Restoras]

A+

[nicole]

Whatever, John, I might want to get married but I don't want to be a stay at home mom and I sure as fuck don't want to do it with a religious believer. I mean y'all know about my current issues and I spend a lot of time thinking about how if I really want to get married I might have to be stuck finding a Christian guy. And there's no way that could work out. Not everyone is just a yet-to-be-converted heathen.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

"You love him more than me." (me, in tears)
"I do. I can't help it." (him, pious)

LOL--fucking alpha'ed.

[John]

The other thing about that article is what the fuck is that guy doing with her? There have to a ton of 20 something Christian girls who would be lining up for this guy. Why is he with some shrewish feminist princess?

[Brett L]

Sex is the only thing feminists don't feel guilty about, and about the only thing Christian girls do. So I'm going with guilt free sex.

[invisible furry hand]

But they haven't slept together, so that can't be it. He is pretty open about wanting to get her soul for Jesus, so maybe that's it

[John]

Maybe so. And I am not sure I believe the story anyway. Maybe he is giving her the whole "I can't sleep with someone until I am married bit". I have never met a guy who lived by that who wasn't married by the time he was 25. No one who actually follows that waits until they are 40 to get married. My guess is that he is lying, really not that into her, or gay.

[Restoras]

If he's straight he's paying for it or at a minimum going to an r&t on a regular basis.

[robc]

A.C. Green was 39 when he got married.

[John]

That is pretty rare. There are people out there who do abstain until marriage. But they are mostly women and they tend to get married young for obvious reasons. Usually when a guy is 40 and claims to be a virgin for religious reasons, he is gay.

Also this chick doesn't seem to be getting any action. That tells me he is probably gay.

[robc]

The fact that two people came up with AC Green as the example does show how rare it is.

We will see what age Tebow marries at.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Didn't A.C. Green remain a virgin until he was married at like age 35 or something like that? Not that it doesn't make him the exception to the rule, but it doesn't mean it's impossible, either.

Shit, some nerds go their whole lives without knowing the touch of a woman, given their obsession with Action Grrrl archetypes, crippling social hangups, and generally poor hygiene.

[Brett L]

What? She's a beard, then.

[Proprietist]

Edna Krabappel meets Ned Flanders?

[Proprietist]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"He watched Twilight with me sans complaint and gets what I see in Edward"

Well, there's your answer to your three rhetorical questions: "Do I have a double chin?" "Is he gay?" "Am I really dating a 40-year-old virgin?"

[Brett L]

Oh, I got what all the women saw in the sparkly vampire. To get laid, I might have even have made encouraging sounds when one started talking about, "its not just that he's hot..." If that gets her engine going and I get the benefit, why complain?

[Abdul]

Nailed it, proprietist.

[Rich]

A "short-war" scenario assumes five days or so of limited Israeli strikes, followed by a U.N.-brokered cease-fire. The Israelis are said to recognize that damage to the nuclear program might be modest, requiring another strike in a few years.

I'm sure this is *exactly* how this fucker'll turn out. 8-(

[o3]

the IAF has block 1 penetrators (F15 ord) so iran's deep bunkers will require US deep penetrators dropped from bombers to finish to job.

[Almanian Turgidson]

"But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops!

Uh, depending on the breaks...."

[Slim Pickens]

Yieeeee haaaw
w
w
w

[DJF]

"""followed by a U.N.-brokered cease-fire.""'

Yes, history is full of examples of where someone could plan the end of a war /s. Planning the beginning of a war is easy, the end part is much much harder.

[John]

No war has ever gotten out of control or not gone as planned. I mean, look at how easy things went when Austria Hungry went down to settle things with Serbia over the Arch Duke's death.

[Libya]

what?

[John]

What is a few thousand dead and tortured prisoners and radical Islamists running the country? Yeah, that went exactly as planned.

[Qaddifi]

not really

[John]

I guess Iraq went just as planned to. Saddam is dead isn't he?

[Almanian Swamp Caslte]

Now, let's not go on arguing about who killed who....this is a FESTIVE occasion!

/Holy Grail wedding

[Frank Costanza]

FESTIVUS babieee! Get ready for my Feats of Strength u weak-kneed POS.

[Brett L]

Using the Six-Days War as your planning model seems... optimistic.

[sarcasmic]

Bar Rafaeli is still hot!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem.....range.html

So is Karina Smirnoff (whoever that is)!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....beach.html

[jacob]

Just when I thought you were posting some nasty ass stuff, you restored my faith in clicking on links.

[sarcasmic]

It's only nasty if it's a chubby-chaser special or for John (same thing).

[invisible furry hand]

What about this lady?

[sarcasmic]

barf?

[RoboCain]

No.

[asdf]

wtf dude

[RoboCain]

meh

[COXSWAIN HARDY]

Colleagues Have Not Heard From The Russian Scientists Exploring 'Alien' Antarctic Lake For Five Days

[MacReady]

do they have dogs with them?

[RoboCain]

Trivia: Sasha Grey named her dog "MacReady".

[Brett L]

See, you fuck with BLUE HADES at your own risk.

[el Commentariosa]

Wasn't this a Matthew Reilly novel?

[Fluffy]

I vote "airborne bacteria that eats your face".

[Lepus]

Elder Things

[Tim]

MONTPELIER ? How did an image of a pig ? the infamous '60s-era epithet by protesters for police officers ? wind up on a decal used on as many as 30 Vermont State Police cruisers?

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.....dyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[Matrix]

awesome!

[sarcasmic]

Gillian Zinser is good enough to eat!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....beach.html

[jacob]

Needs breast enhancement.

[Ice Nine]

Negs. Needs breasts.

[JW]

zzzzz...*..wha? Sorry, I dozed off looking at her picture.

[sarcasmic]

Inmate puts pig on cop car logo!

Priceless!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....e-car.html

Oinky oinky!

[Matrix]

Tim beat ya to it.

[Tim]

By two whole minutes yet.

[sarcasmic]

I am shamed 🙁

[Bee Tagger]

The Decemberists Pull Support From Komen, Raise Funds for Planned Parenthood

Once-hipster band accuses Komen of politicizing, politicizes in response.

[JW]

I've always been fairly apathetic to the annual SUPPORT MY SUSAN G.KOMEN RUN!! beggings I get every year, but I think I'm going to have to donate to them this year, out of pure spite.

[Trespassers W]

"Decemberists"? Sounds like some kind of terrorist group.

[mad libertarian guy]

If you like music, they actually are kinda terrorists.

[RoboCain]

"Roseanne Barr announces Green Party candidacy for president"

http://dailycaller.com/2012/02.....president/

[John]

She might get my vote. She could eat America's enemies.

[Warty]

"Morbo congratulates our gargantuan cyborg president. May death come quickly to his enemies!"

[Tim]

+1

[JW]

"Ambergris. Noun. A grease-like product of the sperm whales digestive tract that is used as a base in the finest perfumes. This has been Roseanne, your guide to the world of facts."

[Perfidious Malarkey]

The first time I heard that quote, I was confused as to whether she was saying "facts" or "fats".

[o3]

is nader dead?

[Almanian]

Is Pat Paulson dead?

Oh, wait, he is dead....

[Bee Tagger]

Now my front hurts.

[db]

Overheard a conversation where one guy was explaining this commercial to 2 or 3 others. None had any idea who Roseanne Barr was. She was just "some lady."

[el Commentariosa]

"I'll forgive all student loans, all debts," she told Jay Leno. "There'll be no more money, no more money systems. Everything will be based on barter and growing and eating vegetables."

[Brett L]

Hmm. Did she go vegan and drop 100 lbs since last time I checked up on her (which could be more than a decade).

[Proprietist]

Wow - did the Green Party go full Maoist?

[Matrix]

well, she did say that rich people should be put in concentration camps

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

She also said a couple months back that she was in favor of bringing back the guillotine and using it on Wall Street.

[o3]

now that's a platform we can rally for ! >watch ur footing, heads rolling around & all...

[Pip]

To execute the OWSers?

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Barr/Barr 2012 - for all of your Statist Needs!

[P Brooks]

It's about time we had another war.

[Almanian]

Are we winning in Compton yet?

Oh, sorry - I was thinking gang wars. Never mind.

[Questions on THE RIGHT TO TAKE]

? Is the right to take a negative or positive right?

? Since it is any white person's right, is it an individual right or a collective right?

"[The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land ... Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent." ~Ayn Rand, US Military Academy at West Point, March 6, 1974

[Suthenboy]

Honestly, I have no opinion one way or the other about Indians...but WI here is swaying me to subscribe to the John Wayne School of Indian Affairs.

[Questions on THE RIGHT TO TAKE]

A perfect example of the thin whitewash over a shitload of underlying aggression in Libertard circles.

[o3]

no, WI is an anarcho-primitivist, hardly a lub-rahl

[Troy]

I have an opinion. Indian taste very good with extra onions and lots of gravy.

[Pip]

I agree about the gravy, but hold the onions:

http://display.cuddlycomments......051567.jpg

http://www.fairfaxunderground......68x723.jpg

[John]

The Native Americans] didn't have any rights to the land

The Iroquois Confederacy and the five civilized tribes would disagree.

I hate to feed the troll. But the racist depiction of Indians as some kind of landless savages is really beyond the pale. I have never seen a person on here more insulting and racist towards a group than WI is towards Indians.

[Questions on THE RIGHT TO TAKE]

Dodge and weave, John, then blame the victims. Typical Libertard.

Why can't you just answer the questions? Everybody knows the Iroquois Confederacy would disagree, Mr. Obvious.

[John]

You are disgusting racist pig with a cartoon and racist view of Native Americans. I have a whole set of step sibling who are half Native Americans. I spent a good part of law school doing legal assistance for Indian tribes.

You are disgusting racist. And if you actually met any real Indians and spouted your shit, you would get your ass kicked. Take your cartoon racism elsewhere.

[John = Nancy Pelosi]

At least at playing silly racist cards. Probably looks like her too.

[o3]

in fact, ben franklin was an ambassador to the iroquois & our articles of confederation was directly influenced.

[John]

Yes, the were a nation. They were a civilization with agriculture and government and human rights. They were not landless savages communing with nature.

[Officer, am I free to Gambol?]

They were NOT civilized, John. That claim is as idiotic as Xians claiming athiesm is a religion. (Oh wait, you're that idiotic too.)

The Iroquois had an advanced society of a Non-State tribal confederacy. But it was tribal, not "city-Statism" (civilization.)

The great non sequitur committed by defenders of Civilization, is to leap from the necessity of society to the necessity of Civilization.

[Fluffy]

That's idiotic and a completely untenable distinction.

If they had agriculture and warfare - and its indisputable that they did - there is absolutely no difference between their civilization and that of any number of Mediterranean civilizations that are indisputably called "states".

Do you know what the size of the average "kingdom" in England was prior to the reign of Alfred the Great? The difference between one of those "kingdoms" and the area controlled by one of the Iroquois component tribes is negligible. Calling one ruler a "king" and another a "chief" is a linguistic distinction without a difference and is a sign of a half-educated lame Hollywood "Cowboys and Indians" worldview.

[Fluffy in the Head]

Fluffy, go into any anthropology class and posit that the Eastern Woodlands Indians had a State sociopolitical typology (civilization.) You'll be laughed out of the class, you stupid Libertard, and for good reason.

[John]

Oh bullshit White Indian. The facts are what they are. The new archeology has totally dismissed the idea that pre Colombian America was not an advanced civilization.

I don't write the history books, I just read them.

[Western Romances=John'sHistory]

[Pip]

"You'll be laughed out of the class, you stupid Libertard, and for good reason."

Because acedemia is full of shit?

[Pip]

So what about the Myans? You know, with all of that pyramid shit?

[o3]

and we stabbed em in the back

[John]

Yes we did. And we were even worse to the Cherokees.

[John]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....holder.php

Eric Holder yesterday proved himself to be the arrogant thin skinned prick he always has been.

[Gumby]

"I'm the attorney general of the United States. OK?"

I'm GUMBY, dammit!!

[Questions on THE RIGHT TO TAKE]

arrogant thin skinned prick

Psychologically projecting this morning, John?

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Well, he's Obama's buddy, and Obama has shown not only is he an arrogant, thin-skinned prick, he likes to surround himself with others who have the same attributed - Joe Biden; Rahm Emanuel...

[Ice Nine]

Israel's major allies in the West are working hard to talk it out of a unilateral military strike on Iran's nuclear facilities,

...with their fingers firmly crossed behind their backs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Obama has a jobs plan proposal for veterans. It will cost $5 billion.

Does it have anything to do with stop-loss and Israel getting ready to bomb Iran?

[Ice Nine]

So let's see, that will be about $500K for each vote he manages to buy from military people with this ploy.

[Sparky]

Another "kook" with dangerous views about the role of government in out lives. How do these people keep getting elected in today's America?

[Sparky]

*our lives

[Suthenboy]

He wants to stop using taxpayer money to tell people what to eat....I could vote for that 'kook'.
I am sure his detractors will scream bloody murder and claiim that babies will die in the streets if the bill passes.....as if captain zero would ever sign it.

[sarcasmic]

But how will people know what to eat without the guiding hand of government?

[Agricultural city-Statism]

Civilization = the guiding hand of government. Don't deny it.

[Louis]

Why does libertarianism only allow for two options, a totalitarian Nazi Germany type state or an anarchist "free market" libertopia?

There are, and should be, an endless number of possibilities for government. Especially now in the 21st century when we should be moving beyond the old ideas and forging new paths of more democractic governance.

What's wrong with setting the rules of the road through democracy? Maybe this means some capitalism with some socialism, but if it's scientific government that establishes the best method why would anyone complain? Maybe you can't smoke, but in return you get to enjoy foie gras, what's wrong with that? So what if you can't have guns, they don't serve any rational purpose anyway, as long as you never have to worry about any health problem ever? Maybe you can't become a drug addict, but why do you care when your continuing education and job retraining is given sane funding for a change?

Life is about trade offs. Isn't giving up tiny irrelevant bits of so-called freedom here and there worth it when you gain so much liberty in other areas? Especially when the liberty being provided does so much more for society as a whole?

[John]

Yeah because once we start taking people's freedom in the name of the collective good, things would never get out of hand or anything. Not like that has ever happened in the past.

[Somalia]

We agree

[Officer, am I free to Gambol?]

Gambol Lockdown = taking people's freedom in the name of the collective agricultural city-Statism (civilization.)

Libertarian, Communist, Nazi: all agricultural city-Statist systems answer the following question the same way: with the barrel of a gun:

Officer, Am I Free to Gambol?

MARX: NO!
MISES: NO!

[Bee Tagger]

Officer, Am I Free to Gambol?

MARX: NO!
MISES: NO!

That would be the greatest buddy cop show of all time.

[o3]

no kidding

[Totally a Dr. AuH20]

But who would be the chief? I vote Adam Smith.

[MMG]

What if we need to take those freedoms to stop Iran from killing us? Or Ron Paul from hating America?

[sarcasmic]

But we are the ones we have been waiting for.

We're not like the others.

We'll get it right this time.

Just give us more power.

We won't abuse it.

You can trust us.

[Restoras]

Seriously. This idiot obviously knows nothing of human history or human nature.

[Libertards = Know Nothings]

What you talkin' 'bout, Lewis?

[Market Fundamentalism]

Market Fundamentalism is evangelically black and white, and just as intellectually bankrupt as the Bible Thumpers.

[db]

"...liberty being provided..."

FUCK OFF, SLAVER.

[Suthenboy]

It is so nice to have an arrogant, self righteous fuckstick like you decide what is best for me. What would I ever do without you Louis? Probably accidentally kill myself while tying my shoes.....

[Officer, am I free to Gambol?]

Arrogant, self righteous fuckstick Suthenboy sez "no!" Cuz he says that's best for me.

Libertarians are the most parasitical of human parasites.

[Suthenboy]

Take your meds dude....and a bath...jesus!

[^^ The Frothing Libertard ^^]

Somebody get his meds. Oh wait, he can't afford them living in his mommy's basement.

[Citation Needed]

Libertarians are the most parasitical of human parasites.

You're unique brand of stoopid is so.....repetitive and tiresome. Even if everyone in the world said they'd agree with you, you'd just continue your projection and straw men and false choices.

Hope mommy and daddy show you more love in the next life :*(

[invisible furry hand]

Libertarians are the most parasitical of human parasites.

Pretty ironic considering all he can do is try to hijack the conversation around here

[^^Psychologically Projecting^^]

Repetitive and tiresome? LOL

I looked up both words in the dictionary, and they had a picture of a libertarian.

[Louis]

Please stop crapping on my threads, I'm trying to figure out how libertarians can believe the naive and wacky contradictory things they do.

[Winthorpe Louis III]

Louis, you're making a scene.

[invisible furry hand]

Dude, with respect, you managed to give a gross distortion of libertarianism in your first sentence and in your post at 9.54pm. You then went on to claim unequal wealth distribution must mean there's crony capitalism. Even if that were true, you won't find any defenders of crony capitalism here. So no wonder you think libertarians believe naive and wacky contradictory things. If you really want to get an understanding of where we are coming from, then happy to help out (and I know many other posters are too). If all you want to do if set up straw men, and treat us like some monolithic bloc, then cool, that's you're choice. But you'd also be missing out on some interesting ideas and (here at H&R) some really stimulating interactions. And who knows, the chance to learn something beyond DailyKos talking points

[invisible furry hand]

ahem, your choice

[CronyCapitalism=OnlyCapitalism]

There is no other kind. Or can you show me? LOL

Communists can't show me any other kind of communism that the kind that failed either.

[x]

Nice try and I condone the outreach effort, but I think White Indian shat all over this enough that Louis wouldn't bother even if he was serious.

[x]

Was to invisible furry hand.

[Louis]

If this is what stands for discourse on libertarian sites you're right, I'm not going to bother with such mindless drivel again. I thought there was some rational reason someone might support Ron Paul, but I guess not. It's all mental disorders.

[Newt Paul]

Newsletters. Marriage certificates. Who gives a shit what we signed?

Contracts are only sacred if we're fucking over somebody else. Otherwise, hey, "things happen."

I disavow anything I signed that I don't like.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

This is not what stands for discourse. Discourse implies an a priori level of civilization. When an individual comes on and instantly calls us all sorts and manner of nasty names, well, GI=GO. You get what you bring to the table, Louis.

[Pip]

DRINK!!!!!!111111111ELEVEN!!

[Sparky]

Nice try Tony Marshall Louis. Go sell your garbage someplace else, I don't think anyone here is buying.

[^^ The Frothing Libertard ^^]

Nobody's buying Libertard garbage either in the free market of ideas.

[Jason Godesky]

I'm able to buy plenty of Little Debbie snack cakes, though.

[Matrix]

So much wrong with this post and so little time to debunk it.

Anyway... democracy is crap. Take your democracy and shove it up your... well, whatever you have that you cram things up in.

[^^ The Frothing Libertard ^^]

Always loves anal.

[Girl Scouts USA]

"Many people think sex is just about vaginal or anal intercourse. But there are lots of different ways to have sex and lots of different types of sex. Sex can include kissing, touching, licking, tickling, sucking and cuddling. Some people like to have aggressive sex, while others like to have soft sex and slow sex with their partners. There is no right or wrong way to have sex. Just have fun, explore and be yourself!"

[Old Mexican]

Re: Louis,

Why does libertarianism only allow for two options, a totalitarian Nazi Germany type state or an anarchist "free market" libertopia?

An anarchist system is not the sine qua non of a free market, nor is libertarianism exclusively anarchist.

Big. Fail.

There are, and should be, an endless number of possibilities for government.

Sure, from bad to worse to worst, there are infinine numbers of gradations between those points.

[Louis]

So I guess you don't like a system where private property is protected?

[Old Mexican]

Re: Louis,

So I guess you don't like a system where private property is protected?

Which system would that be? I have experienced only those that don't, which call themselves "Democracy."

[PolisPOLICe Privation Property]

Ol' Poodle is full of shit.

POLICe beat bums and arrest drug dealers every day in this agricultural city-Statist nation, to protect privation property values.

[Old Mexican]

Re: White Imbecile,

POLICe beat bums and arrest drug dealers every day in this agricultural city-Statist nation, to protect privation property values.

There are no police in your "original affluent society" where you would cry like a litte wussy girl at the sight of a wolverine grawling at you.

[No Need of Police]

There's no need of police in a Non-State sociopolitical typology.

So why are you always psychologically projecting your fear of the outdoors? Does mommy keep you locked indoors in the basement all day?

[Old Mexican]

Re: White Imbecile,

There's no need of police in a Non-State sociopolitical typology.

Totally correct. Nevertheless, if in your beloved "original affluent society" you would still cry like a little girl at the sight of ants covering all your meager gatherings.

Waa waa waa!

[Ol' POODLE Statist]

He needs big daddy government to protect his rights. And then mewls about the results.

[sarcasmic]

Libertarians see a distinction between criminal activity and economic activity.

Liberals view economic activity (especially if it involves an unequal distribution of wealth) as criminal activity.

[Louis]

If wealth is inequality distributed isn't that a good sign that crony capitalism is afoot?

Such a thing would argue for collective action to right the wrong. The antithesis of the naive libertarian "free market" view.

[Louis]

unequally, bad spell check there

[sarcasmic]

An unequal distribution of wealth is a good sign that some people are better at accumulating wealth than others.

That is all.

Go upstairs before the breakfast your mommy cooked for you gets cold.

[Louis]

Or that they've stolen it by using their unlimited funds to manipulate the political process.

[sarcasmic]

Your mommy is waiting to drive you to your tent at the Occutard camp.

Get going!

[Gov't = Capitalist Middle Mg't]

Libertards whitewash this fact, because it's profitable.

They really don't want to eliminate government. They just want government for me, not for thee.

[Jordan]

And for some reason you see that as a reason to give them even more power.

[Jordan]

Reply was to Louis.

[sarcasmic]

And for some reason you see that as a reason to give them even more power.

That's right.
Government is controlled by the rich.
If government is given more power, then it will be able to control the rich who control it.
So we must give government more power.
See?
It makes perfect sense (if you are retarded).

[Restoras]

Looks like we got ourselves an Occutard.

[Gov't = Capitalist Middle Mg't]

Libertards whitewash this fact, because it's profitable.

They really don't want to eliminate government. Libertards just want government for me, not for thee.

[Brett L]

What the fuck? There are slightly more flavors of libertarianism than libertarians, to steal a line from one of the other commentors here. Lots of minarchists with huge variation on what constitutes the smallest viable state that will protect individuals from force or fraud against their persons and property.

[There are lots of socialists]

Surely one of those flavors have it right, right? LOL

[invisible furry hand]

Who says libertarianism only allows for two options, a totalitarian Nazi Germany type state or an anarchist "free market" libertopia?

And for that matter, why should 50% + 1 of those who bother to vote get to decide which of my freedoms are irrelevant? No doubt this seems all very sensible to you because you assume that the voters would chime with your personal preferences. What if they don't? What if something you hold dear is taken away because it's irrelevant to others? I don't know why others are libertarians, but for me, one reason is that I know that power isn't always exercised by the wise and benevolent, and even if it is, every exercise of power involves trade-offs. So if I'm going to hand power over to a government (which unlike teh korporashuns can physically coerce people) then that power ought to be pretty limited, preferably to the usual libertarian wishlist. It certainly shouldn't be so intrusive as to prevent me from smoking while eating foie gras. Or even smoking foie gras.

[Freedom to Gambol?]

Libertarianism isn't about freedom. Liberty-talk is just the BAIT.

The SWITCH: Get as much as you can get while the getting is good, and whitewashing how you got it.

[Girl Scouts USA]

"Who says libertarianism only allows for two options"

False choicers?

[R C Dean]

The real question is, why do you think libertarianism only allows for two options, a totalitarian Nazi Germany type state or an anarchist "free market" libertopia?

Straw men are notoriously easy to beat, you know. Try engaging on a more realistic level.

[Louis]

Isn't what you always claim, that Obama is Hitler and that we just need to eliminate taxes and Medicare and roads and schools and we'll have a "free market" finally!

[Old Mexican]

Re: Louis,

Isn't what you always claim, that Obama is Hitler and that we just need to eliminate taxes and Medicare and roads and schools and we'll have a "free market" finally!

Yeah, that's it, Louis. What a smart fellow you are.

Now grab your bag and go to your liberal arts class before you lose the bus. Go, git.

[Ol' Statist Poodle]

Now the resident Poodle is psychologically projecting his fear of art.

[o3]

WI - re income inequality; ron paul agrees & stated wealth ALWAYS migrates upwards w fiat money.

[All money is by fiat]

Even gold.

[Old Mexican]

Re: All money is by fiat,

Even gold.

Fail.

You don't understand the meaning of the word 'fiat'.

[Restoras]

Or money.

[TrickyVic]

""You don't understand the meaning of the word 'fiat'.""

Fiat made some cool cars.

[Brett L]

You're applying what is usually expressed here as dislike of the State's actions in the person of its figurehead. Go back and read the commentary in the Bush years. There are some Hit&Runpublicans;, but for the most part it isn't about which party is in charge. The problem is that the parties differ not-at-all on their end goals of less liberty and more control.

[Girl Scouts USA]

"Obama is Hitler"

Surely you jest. Hitler was a damn sight smarter.

[Trespassers W]

Concern troll is concerned, a handful of you take the bait as usual.

[.]

Responding to a "new name" is at least somewhat forgivable. Explain the people still responding to White Indian.

[JW]

What's wrong with setting the rules of the road through democracy?

Because my life isn't subject to a vote.

but if it's scientific government

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! [deep breath] HAHAHAHAHAHA!...ehhhhhh.....

Life is about trade offs.

What will you be trading off for me today?

Isn't giving up tiny irrelevant bits of so-called freedom here and there worth it when you gain so much liberty in other areas?

That word doesn't mean what you think it does.

Go to school, Louis. Learn something.

[Mr. FIFY]

You actually believe what you wrote, didn't you, Louis?

[Louis's Girlfriend]

Isn't giving up tiny irrelevant bits of so-called freedom here and there worth it when you gain so much liberty in other areas?

Oh, Louis, you're making me all squishy!

[Gregory Smith]

Finally someone who gets it!

My MAN!!

[me myself and I]

How to know you've walked into the Super Bowl party of an insane person.

[Sparky]

Some people have way too much time on their hands.

[RoboCain]

Those are actually quite common.

[Fluffy]

http://www.latimes.com/busines.....5180.story

Some lady sued Honda in small claims court in CA and won.

I am not interested in the case itself at all, though. I am linking this because the LA Times appears to be claiming that in CA you are prohibited from using a lawyer for a small claims court matter.

I can understand setting up small claims court so that a lawyer is not required - but does CA actually prohibit them? Or is this bad journalism?

Because I can think of two or three enumerated rights that would be violated by a state legislating such a prohibition.

[John]

You have a right to a lawyer in a criminal matter not a civil matter. In civil matters you only have a right to due process.

I would imagine they passed the law so that people who couldn't afford lawyers are not disadvantaged. A noble goal I guess. Of course without lawyers, people who are inarticulate or dumb are at a huge disadvantage that they can't ever overcome. So I am not sure they have done much good.

[Suthenboy]

Noble goals...nothing ever goes awry when pursuing those...

[R C Dean]

The notion that a right to due process isn't violated if the State prohibits you from having a lawyer is . . . . disturbing.

[Brett L]

The State prohibits both parties from having a lawyer.

[cynical]

How could you even apply such a rule to a corporate entity? Prevent them from having in house council? Require that their representative in the court have no legal training?

[John]

That is because you are a lawyer and want to protect the guild. For most of this country's history people did not hire lawyers to settle small disputes. I wouldn't say we didn't have due process just because there wasn't a lawyer behind ever bush.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

I am throwing in with John here. There is no need for an attorney in small-claims court, and I don't have a problem barring the use of them within that venue.

[jacob]

I don't have a problem barring the use of them within that venue.

Absurd. If I want to hire a lawyer to represent me, why can't I? Need is an arbitrary concept and should not be given consideration. Nobody needs to hire someone to go shopping for them, but I'd wager it happens every day. Are you going to ban that too?

[John]

You can. I believe you have a right to demand any suit be taken to superior court if you so choose. So all this is doing is saying, you can have it in small claims court or superior court, but you can only have a lawyer in superior court.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

This is not like "banning" your personal shopper. This is like "banning" steroids in baseball, or the NL not adopting the DH. You have a venue, and the venue has rules.

f I want to hire a lawyer to represent me, why can't I?

Because the court says you can't. The same reason you cannot use hearsay evidence or inflammatory rhetoric or evidence wholly lacking in scientific credibility.

[T]

evidence wholly lacking in scientific credibility.

Didn't read all those Balko stories on Mississippi too carefully, did you, Rev.?

[jacob]

If I want to hire a lawyer to represent me, why can't I?

Because the court says you can't.

Holy circular logic!

There's this thing called the Constitution that states I have a right to counsel.

[Fluffy]

Leaving due process aside for a moment, what about your association rights?

[John]

Nothing says you can't talk to a lawyer. You just can't bring one with you to court.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

Also, nothing says you can't hire a lawyer and do a full on regular civil suit, right?

It's just this one particular kind of case.

[Brett L]

I think in small claims court, in CA, this is true. Lets say that small claims allows for civil suits up to $1000 in value. How would the plantiff get any true restitution if there are lawyers involved? How would you avoid putting an undue burden on the defendents?

[sarcasmic]

She got ten grand. A class action would have gotten her two benjamins (and the lawyers would have gotten eight million dollars, fuck trial lawyers, fuck them with a stick).

[Stick]

Leave me out of it.

[Fluffy]

So what you're saying is that if someone sues me I must be prohibited from being allowed to talk to a lawyer, or having a lawyer write up my filings for me, in order to make sure it's not too expensive for the other party?

That seems pretty silly to me.

If I want to spend $1000 to defend myself against a $50 claim just because that's kind of asshole I am, how is that not my right?

[Brett L]

I have no clue what the law is in California. I would personally hope that there was a mechanism for people like yourself to get a full civil trial with all of the bells and whistles. That is, that both parties would have to agree to having it out in small claims court rather than a full civil trial. Like going on Judge Judy.

[Fluffy]

Is that what the article means by saying that Honda can take it to Superior Court?

[Brett L]

I've exhausted all of my knowledge on the California judicial structure and am well beyond the point where I can speculate.

[jacob]

That seems pretty silly to me.

Me too

[H. Reardon]

What you argue for is the precursor of a totalitarian Nazi Germany type state

[Suthenboy]

Pre-cursor my ass Henry, if you are talking about Louis, he is outlining Oceana, Brave New World, and Utopia all rolled into one; The stuff Stalin and Hitler jerked off to

[Louis]

Why do libertarians twist and distort obvious facts? You wouldn't claim Stalin and Hitler were masturbating to Road to Serfdom would you?

[Suthenboy]

You and I have no idea what you are talking about. You advocate that people give up the right to make choices for themselves so that they avoid making bad choices. Somehow, in your mind, that equates to liberty. How about I make choices for you Louis?

[Louis]

It's not about giving up the right to make choices, it's about having a system in which you only want to make the right choices.

Once that burden is lifted you have far more freedom to undertake more choices.

[Suthenboy]

No doubt you know what the 'right choices' are

Jesus fucking christ, you are worse than Tony, and that is saying alot.

[Sparky]

There's a book out that you might have heard of. It's called Brave New World, it's all about being allowed to only make the right choices. Read it.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Louis,

It's not about giving up the right to make choices, it's about having a system in which you only want to make the right choices.

"The right choices" according to whom? You?

Once that burden is lifted you have far more freedom to undertake more choices.

What burden would that be, Louis? And one does not undertake choices.

[mr simple]

Why do libertarians twist and distort obvious facts?

I think you mean show you how the facts don't conform to your twisted worldview.

[Almanian]

So nice to see some old trolls back. I promised myself not to engage them directly, so I won't.

Gamboling back to work - everyone have a nice weekend! Even the trolls!

[beezle]

That was a "good" jobs number? Ha!

Y/Y participation rate: 64.2 (2011) 63.7 (2012)
Employ/pop. ratio: 58.4 vs 58.5
Unemployed: 13.9 mio vs 12.8 mio
Not in force: 85.5 mio vs -->87.9 mio

[Obama teh manly man]

nobody knows what that means. now i gots me sum moar singin to do -

"jus singin in the rain..."

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

This just in: Virginia Rep. Jim Moran is a fucking idiot. Maybe his last name is just slightly misspelled.

[RoboCain]

See above.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

What, am I supposed to read everyone else's links? I gotta post mine!!

[Sparky]

You must have missed it further up where RoboCain posted it.

[Apatheist]

All of you must of missed it when this came out a couple days ago.

[invisible furry hand]

This was on my Twitter timeline

#WIN a DISGUSTINGLY CUTE PLUSH TESTICLE from @Broodr and @TaintedVisions just for RTing posts from @ThatsLikeWHOA bit.ly/nLOzV9

I haven't dared click

[Almanian]

Thanks for the tip - I gotta get me one o' those!

[Sparky]

No, not the tip, the ball.

[me myself and I]

This was on my Twitter timeline

That's just @LucyStag messing with you.

[Old Mexican]

The Obama Administration Kidnaps Children

The scars of childbirth were still healing on Amelia Reyes Jimenez's stomach in 2008 when police came to her Phoenix apartment and took her three-month-old daughter from her arms.

Three and a half years later, Reyes Jimenez and her four children have become statistics in the U.S. crackdown on illegal immigration. Each year thousands of children of undocumented immigrants, like Amelia's kids, wind up in foster care when their parents are arrested for immigration violations. Some are even adopted by U.S. citizens while their parents are held in federal detention centers or deported back to their native countries.

Reyes Jimenez's son and three daughters are now living in foster care in Phoenix, and are awaiting possible adoption. Reyes Jimenez is back in Mexico, her parental rights terminated by an Arizona judge, and she cries when she remembers the raid that began it all.

"My daughters were calling, 'Mommy, my Mommy,'" said Reyes Jimenez. "I felt destroyed. I felt like I would never see my girls, even worse [the baby] was so small. I had just bought her cradle and her stroller."

A new study by the human rights group Applied Research Center estimates that as of summer 2011 there were at least 5,100 children of detained immigrants in foster care in 22 states.

"It's clearly a systemic problem," said Rinku Sen, executive director of ARC. "It happens again and again and again in multiple states, multiple counties, different ICE agents, different detention centers, different judges." Though the report did not say how many kids had been adopted, ARC did find that detained parents were at risk of permanent separation from their kids because of deportation.

"It's sort of like saying, okay, you came here as an undocumented immigrant, we're going to break up your family, we're going to keep your kids," said John De Leon, and attorney who represents the Guatemalan and Mexican consulate in immigration cases. He says he has seen the issue grow into a national problem over the last decade.

Marxist: "What part of 'the family must be destroyed' don't you understand?"

[Suthenboy]

OM....you are making an appeal to emotion?
You are ruining my day....
I count on you to be the bastion of logic around here.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Then you are going to be sorely disappointed.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Suthenboy,

OM....you are making an appeal to emotion?

Am I? Because I thought I was simply reporting on a kidnapping case, but you tell me.

[Suthenboy]

Ok, gotcha.....

[o3]

no, moar like an appeal to radio entertainment

[cynical]

Well, it sort of follows from birthright citizenship for children. You can't deport them, but the parents are here illegally.

Really, they ought to reform it. Leave it as a right (for the sake of the Constitution), but require that a person actively claim it, and only recognize the claims of legal adults (freedom of contract or whatever). Treat kids as having the citizenship of their legal guardians.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Can we please track down where the fucking griefer is located and wrap duct tape around every orifice until he/she/it stops squirming? He/she/it's really shitting up this place.

[db]

It only has the power you give it.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

Seriously, stop responding to it. It wants one thing: attention, and we seem to have plenty of people here who just can't help giving it what it wants.

[Sparky]

I dunno, he will dump shit on every post regardless. Yes, he's obviously looking for attention, and he'll dump shit everywhere until he gets it.

[Rev. Blue Moon]

It stops when people don't respond to it. Yes, it will continue to fetch about for attention, but that doesn't mean we have to sustain its psychic vampirism.

[RoboCain]

Unfortunately, people keep responding to it.

[Suthenboy]

My apologies to everyone here. I was not familiar with L***** and now I am.
I will not respond to him ever again

[Rev. Blue Moon]

It wasn't even necessarily responding to Louie that I was talking about. Louie is just Tony all over again. I am talking about responding to rather's hypermanic phase.

[Restoras]

Yes but it's kinda like scratching your anus and then sniffing your finger - you know you shouldn't do it, and most of the time you don't but sometimes you can't help yourself.

[teen gurlz]

eeuuuuwwwwwwww

[HE HAD A BUTTER KNIFE!!!]

Family Furious After Calumet City Police Shoot, Kill Boy With Autism

CALUMET CITY, Ill. (CBS) ? Police in Calumet City were defending their actions Wednesday after officers shot and killed a 15-year-old boy, who has a form of autism, after he threatened them with a knife.

Stephon Watts' family said he suffered from Asperger's Syndrome ? a high-functioning form of autism ? and attention deficit disorder.

As CBS 2?s Susanna Song and WBBM Newsradio's Steve Miller report, they claimed the boy was only holding a butter knife. Police would only describe it as a "kitchen knife."

The deadly encounter happened at the boy's home at 541 Forsythe Av. in Calumet City, police said.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/20.....umet-city/

[Joe M]

Gilmore said a stun gun wasn't used because the lead officer did not have a stun gun.

That is a great excuse. Seriously, they can't be troubled, because fuck you, that's why.

[Louie]

Jason,

Will you gambol through forest and plain with me forever?

GODESKY: Yes [ ]
HELLER: NO [ ]
GARY JOHNSON: MAYBE [ ]

[Louie]

I will remove every aspect of my agricultural city-state!

Not an inch of me will be PRIVatation PRIVate PROVperty!

[Joe M]

New Nevada Poll: Romney 50, Gingrich 25, Paul 15, Santorum 8

I expect Paul to outperform, and Gingrich and Santorum to underperform. There's an outside chance Paul could snag second place if his organization is really all that.

[x]

Are the Nevada caucuses done like Iowa? The "vote" may not matter at all.

[Joe M]

Yeah, based on this, it looks to be another non-binding vote. Which is even better news for Paul, really.

[x]

I read they were going hard at the caucus states as Obama did in 2008. (Which helped him a large amount against Hillary.) I think kinnath and some others on here noted that despite the "vote" counts Paul was getting half the delegates in their locations because the people for other candidates weren't informed and just did the polling.

[x]

Or close to anyway, don't want to sound crazy. I remember talk of like two of four delegates, four of seven, etc.

[Joe M]

Yeah, pretty sure he'll get a lot more than most current delegate count predictions have calculated.

[Pip]

She Dialed 911. The Cop Who Came to Help Raped Her.
Jan 29, 2012 4:45 AM EST A young woman in Milwaukee called the cops when someone threw a brick through her window. One of the cops who came to help raped her.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a.....d-her.html

[John]

She took her story to the Milwaukee District Attorney's office. A prosecutor subsequently wrote, "While I did find the victim's version of events credible, I did not believe that her testimony would be strong enough to successfully prosecute Officer Cates."

Way to protect the shield

[o3]

but was the dog shot?

[Pip]

MONTPELIER ? How did an image of a pig ? the infamous '60s-era epithet by protesters for police officers ? wind up on a decal used on as many as 30 Vermont State Police cruisers?

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.....dyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

[Are Humans Corporations?]

Or is it just the other way around?

[cynical]

Yes, humans are corporeal.

[anomdebus]

OT:
With the goal of showing why the major parties are deceiving us and that small government makes sense, is there anything wrong with this statement?:

To be both coherent and diverse, a party can only be limited.

[M]

"The U.S. added 243,000 jobs in January - far exceeding expectations of about 150,000 jobs - and the unemployment rate dipped to 8.3 percent from 8.5 percent in December, the Labor Department announced Friday. "

Huh, Obama strikes back against Republican goals yet again.

[Johnny Clamboat]

I spy fake numbers.

How many of those 243k jobs are full-time? Not many.

Also, when you memory hole 1.2MM from the labor force in one month it can do wonders for your unemployment rate.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/.....-year-high

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The rate of people who left the workforce was three times the drop in the U3.

If Obama's goal is cooking the books to make it look like unemployment is dropping, he's doing a damn fine job.

[John Derp]

There is a dude that clearlyt knwos what tiem it is!

http://www.surfing-anon.tk

[Mr. FIFY]

Oh, man...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

[John]

That is a kick in the nuts

On Oct. 12, before she could organize the demonstrations, she received a stern letter from the town clerk: "I would strongly encourage you to cease any campaign-related activities until the requirements of the law have been met."

State law ? this is the state of John McCain, apostle of political purification through the regulation of political speech ? says that anytime two or more people work together to influence a vote on a ballot measure, they instantly become a "political committee." This transformation triggers various requirements ? registering with the government, filing forms, establishing a bank account for the "committee" even if it has raised no money and does not intend to. This must be done before members of this fictitious "committee" may speak.

[John]

And some of the comments are just mind boggling.

[Proprietist]

While we certainly agree the crackdown is BS, it's kind of ironic this complaint about legal abuse via state law is coming from a supporter of the most ardent state's rights advocate. If she took this complaint to the Supreme Court, Paul would criticize them for acting beyond their jurisdiction.

Moreso than the newsletters, the unwillingness to extend constitutional rights to the States is my biggest pet peeve about Ron Paul. I understand the government needs to operate within a consistent framework, but his interpretation falls more on the Federalist side than the libertarian side - both of which are perfectly valid interpretations of the 14th Amendment. You'd think a libertarian would err on the side of more liberty.