A.M. Links: Iran Threatens Hormuz Blockade, Rick Perry Sues Virginia, Cheetah the Chimp Is Dead

Mike Riggs | 12.28.2011 9:00 AM

Iran will block the Straight of Hormuz if Europe interferes with its nuclear program.
Oil prices climb as a supposed result.
Newt Gingrich loved Romneycare before he liked it only slightly better than Obamacare.
Rick Perry is suing Virginia for access to the GOP primary ballot.
Cheetah is dead at 80.
Facebook is about to have the biggest IPO of any Internet company since the dot-com bubble burst.

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Tim 13 years ago

Oil prices spike just as Obama has to cancel that piepline? His balls are now in the vice.
1. Homer Simpson 13 years ago
  
  HMMMM, PIE-PLINE.
2. Episiarch-un 13 years ago
  
  First comment and you blew it, chump.
3. PS 13 years ago
  
  Have we won in Iran yet?
sarcasmic 13 years ago

The chimp looks good for being 80.
1. Tim 13 years ago
  
  He lost out for the part of Ceasar in Rise of the Planet of The Apes and never got over it.
2. Rich 13 years ago
  
  Cobb says Cheetah wasn't a troublemaker. Still, sanctuary volunteer Ron Priest says that when the chimp didn't like what was going on, he would throw feces.
  
  He was a frequent commenter on Hit & Run.
  1. - 13 years ago
    
    Reruns already?
    1. Rich 13 years ago
      
      What, too early?
      1. Joke Nazi 13 years ago
        
        Come back...two years!
3. Cheetah the Chimp 13 years ago
  
  Back in my day, we would slowly peel back a face, not all that ripping like the kids do these days.
  
  And tearing the genitals? - pfaw!
4. Robert 13 years ago
  
  The chimp was a much younger impostor. Came out years ago in Wash. Post.
sarcasmic 13 years ago

Zooey Deschanel don't look half bad without warpaint.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....iends.html
1. Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago
  
  I've been DVRing her new show but can't bring myself to watch it yet.
  1. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
    
    I've been DVRing her new show but can't bring myself to watch it yet.
    
    I like her a lot (she was great in Almost Famous), but that show looks absolutely unfunny.
    1. RoboCain 13 years ago
      
      Almost Famous had a lot of stars before they were stars.
    2. robc 13 years ago
      
      Mixed at best. It has its moments of funny and extreme suck.
      1. Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago
        
        I suppose I'll soldier through what I have recorded and see if she's enough to carry me past the suck.
    3. AlmightyJb 13 years ago
      
      Didn't know she had a show. She was cute as a blond in Elf.
  2. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
    
    I couldn't make it through the pilot. She was fine in Elf, but the characters she typically plays are just off-putting to me: the cloying, ironic coffeehouse hipster chick who affects a pseudo-quirky manner to disguise a lack of real personality.
    
    Not surprisingly, her ex-husband appears to be a typical beta goon.
    1. sarcasmic 13 years ago
      
      Thirty seconds is all the Will Farrell I can handle.
      1. Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
        
        I attribute the watchability of Old School to the fact that Will Ferrell's screentime is limited to roughly 30-60 second frames. After that time limit, he starts looking like an even more retarded version of Adam Sandler.
      2. Clich? Bandit 13 years ago
        
        We need more cowbell.
2. Devil's Advocate 13 years ago
  
  She's pretty cute, I agree. Her sartorial choices generally make me long to tell her to go back to her room RIGHT NOW and change your clothes, YOUNG LADY. She looks pretty nice in the last one, with her db ex, though, IMO.
  1. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
    
    looks pretty nice in the last one, with her db ex, though, IMO.
    
    He looks like Keith Urban with AIDS.
    1. RoboCain 13 years ago
      
      Seriously, she could do much better.
      1. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
        
        Seriously, she could do much better.
        
        Yeah, but he's probably some sort of creative genius, an Operating Thetan, or writes really good beat poetry. You know, the typical shit these Hollywood chicks dig. Merely not having AIDS just can't compete with all that.
      2. sarcasmic 13 years ago
        
        She's an uber-lib.
        
        So of course she's going to fall for some emo pussy.
3. KDN 13 years ago
  
  She's cute. Her and Ben Gibbard being married fits well as they both make horrible music.
4. SIV 13 years ago
  
  She's not made up like a Vegas showgirl but she's wearing as much makeup as your average shop salesgirl. Unless those are radiation burns on her eyelids.
5. PS 13 years ago
  
  I saw her in HHGTTG and decided she can't act her way out of a paper bag. I don't think I've seen her in anything since, nor care to.
  
  Wouldn't kick her out of bed of course.
  1. sarcasmic 13 years ago
    
    Tin Man was pretty good (for a Syfy Channel production).
    
    http://www.syfy.com/tinman/
    1. PS 13 years ago
      
      Aha, could be something to watch with the kid.
    2. kinnath 13 years ago
      
      I enjoyed Tin Man.
6. Pip 13 years ago
  
  Sarah's prettier.
Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

Cobb recalled Cheetah as an outgoing chimp who loved finger painting and watching football and who was soothed by Christian music, the station said.

Cheetah was a Tea Partier.
1. Tim 13 years ago
  
  How can a monkey be racist?
2. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  "And he never tore anyone's face off"
  1. Ska 13 years ago
    
    Or scrotums (from what I remember).
    1. Sheesh 13 years ago
      
      How many scrota do you have?
      1. Ska 13 years ago
        
        Just one, like most normal dudes. That doesn't mean a chimp can't enter a room with two dudes in it and reach the illustrious level of two scrota torn off.
        
        MacGruber 13 years ago
        
        Alriiiight, I got another scrote rip in. I might go for the turkey.
RoboCain 13 years ago

"A 26-year-old woman allegedly had sex with a seven-year-old girl to prove to her love to her married boyfriend.

Margaret Ann O'Neill told police she performed oral sex on the girl to satisfy the 'sexual appetite' of her boyfriend Christopher Smith."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....-wife.html
1. SugarFree 13 years ago
  
  As long as she continues to molest her until she's 18, the British judiciary approves of the relationship.
  1. RoboCain 13 years ago
    
    Worth reposting:
    
    "The judge ruled that Sabaditsch-Wolff committed a crime by stating in her seminars about Islam that the Islamic prophet Mohammed was a pedophile (Sabaditsch-Wolff's actual words were "Mohammed had a thing for little girls.")
    
    The judge rationalized that Mohammed's sexual contact with nine-year-old Aisha could not be considered pedophilia because Mohammed continued his marriage to Aisha until his death. According to this line of thinking, Mohammed had no exclusive desire for underage girls; he was also attracted to older females because Aisha was 18 years old when Mohammed died...."
    
    http://volokh.com/2011/12/27/a.....s-beliefs/
    1. Maxxx 13 years ago
      
      It must be true if a judicial lord of liberty says so.
      1. DesigNate 13 years ago
        
        Seriously? Nobody here has said that judges are infallible. Science Damn it!
    2. Ice Nine 13 years ago
      
      "The judge ruled that Sabaditsch-Wolff committed a crime by stating in her seminars about Islam that...
      
      She committed a crime by calling herself "Sabaditsch-Wolff".
      1. robc 13 years ago
        
        Britain clearly needs another dose of Cromwell.
        
        Tonio 13 years ago
        
        Austria, dude, RTFA.
        
        robc 13 years ago
        
        I stand behind my statement regardless of where this particular story occurred.
2. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  I say we put the woman and her boyfriend in a sack, toss them in the Thames, and let them tear each other apart whilst drowning.
  1. AlmightyJb 13 years ago
    
    He'll get a slap on the wrist. Judges don't do anything to pediphiles until they kidnap and kill a child. And then everyone one is like "could something have been done?" Same sad story over and over. I'm not sure why this keeps happening unless all lawyers and judges are closet pediphiles. Its the only thing that makes sense.
    1. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      It's the fucking stupidity of the couple. "He told me if I loved him, I'd commit a heinous crime against an innocent kid." "I didn't actually commit the crime."
      
      Fuckit. In the sack, in the river, y'all deserve each other unto death.
  2. tarran 13 years ago
    
    This happened in Kissimmee, Florida.
    
    The Niagra river is much more conveniently situated.
    1. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      As long as there is sacking and water.
3. - 13 years ago
  
  There are no rules in anarchy.
  1. sarcasmic 13 years ago
    
    In anarchy there are no rules backed by a central authority with the power to impose violence.
    
    That doesn't mean there are no rules.
  2. Tonio 13 years ago
    
    Is that a rule?
    1. Tim 13 years ago
      
      +1
  3. Barely Suppressed Rage 13 years ago
    
    What's the first rule of anarchy?
    1. Anomalous 13 years ago
      
      Don't talk about anarchy.
      1. sarcasmic 13 years ago
        
        Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
        
        Citizen Hackett 13 years ago
        
        Ask me "What's the key to anarchy?"
        
        "What's the key t..."
        
        TIMING!!!!
RoboCain 13 years ago

New laws: No caffeine in beer, shark fins in soup

http://www.washingtontimes.com.....#pagebreak
1. SIV 13 years ago
  
  California banned...Robo!
  The kids wil have to sit through "Gay History" without a dextromethorphan buzz.
  1. RoboCain 13 years ago
    
    That's a clear violation of the Eighth Amendment.
RoboCain 13 years ago

Reason's Nick Gillespie: Ron Paul 'needs to explain' controversial newsletters

http://dailycaller.com/2011/12.....wsletters/
1. Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
  
  Wait. Wait. Do I get to be first?
  Cancel my subscription!!! Woo hoo!!
  1. Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
    
    Some of the Paultard comments at that Daily Caller story are just, well, the word "precious" comes to mind.
    They're just so adorable when get all riled up.
2. Jerry 13 years ago
  
  They were written in English weren't they? An English Ph.D. should be able to read them just fine. Oh, wait...
Brett L 13 years ago

Exercise those options Facebook employees, it'll never be worth as much as the week of the IPO.
1. squarooticus 13 years ago
  
  That's what I said about Google. If I had taken that bet, I would be out a lot of money.
  1. Brett L 13 years ago
    
    Google was still growing when they IPO'd. I can't figure out where FB's growth will come from.
    1. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
      
      I can't figure out where FB's growth will come from.
      
      That's easy: the remaining ten percent of the earth's population that is not on Facebook will create a Facebook page.
      1. Ice Nine 13 years ago
        
        I can't figure out where FB's growth will come from.
        
        Don't feel bad - I can't figure out where FB's growth came from.
    2. Maxxx 13 years ago
      
      More importantly, where will their revenue come from?
      1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        For now, from companies willing to kiss FB's ass for "access" to the network. I'm dubious about how much commercial value there is to businesses marketing on FB, as it will get annoying pretty quickly.
        
        mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
        
        Will get? It's more like "has been".
    3. db 13 years ago
      
      When even the companies that make money off of your business tank in their IPOs (Zynga, anyone?), it's time to reconsider going public yourself.
      
      Unless of course your model all along was to build an overly hyped company with an inscrutable revenue generation model and then take it public at the peak of its popularity and laugh all the way to the bank, then I get it.
      1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        I don't think it's quite that bad. They do have a massive network, which has some value in itself. The question is, what are they going to do with it and, more importantly, how much commercialization will their users tolerate? From my professional encounters with FB, I think they still aren't quite sure what their future should be.
        
        Frankly, I think Google will take over this space if they're willing to just wait out FB's dominance. Search, mail, cloud apps, etc. coupled with social media like Google+ is a compelling alternative.
        
        db 13 years ago
        
        I'm really worn out on facebook. I check it very infrequently anymore. I think, based on my sample of one, that its tide is ebbing. But I don't think that someone else will necessarily come in to fill a void...the utility of social media is simply not good enough. So I can keep in touch with friends. great. I don't want to hear where they are at every minute of the day. I don't want to know how many farmville achievements they've made. I don't really care about 90% of what facebook carries. And that 90% is built on top of the 10% of original features that made it interesting and useful. It's all fluff, anymore.
        
        Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        I don't use it except to look when my wife posts pictures from vacations. So, in essence, it's taken the place of one of those photo-sharing sites.
        
        I think most of FB's hundreds of millions of users are equally dormant.
        
        Rhywun 13 years ago
        
        I go on like twice a year and it baffles me that the same people are still posting the same trivial shit all day long, every day. This is in complete contrast to Hit 'n' Run, of course.
        
        Hank 13 years ago
        
        Very nice.
        
        Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        Which, it turns out, supplants Facebook in 2021.
        
        db 13 years ago
        
        I just imagined a Hit&Run; re-discovery called Hit&Run; 2021. You see, what we do is take old comment threads and re-work them into something funny. And voice them over old SeaLab animation.
        
        PS 13 years ago
        
        You have a good point. Google didn't win the search engine wars by being the first in the fray.
        
        http://technologizer.com/2009/.....pril-1999/
        
        Not even in the top 15 in '99. Now, Lycos? Altavista?
    4. DesigNate 13 years ago
      
      Y'all aren't taking into account that everyone under the age of 18 has basically grown up with the ability to be plugged into social media. Every year freshly minted middle school students plug into facebook for the first time. Obviously there is no such thing as always going up, but I think we aren't quite to the crest of that ridge yet.
RoboCain 13 years ago

According to Heather Butthurt, the executive director of the National Security Network, "A foreign policy that lets our trading partners collapse (in Europe); fails to engage with new ones as they are busily building ties with each other (Brazil, Turkey, Korea, Indonesia); and lets new disease incubate in the food we import and pollution concentrate in the winds we breathe will kill citizens and impoverish our national treasury as surely as the wars Paul critiques."

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/a.....?page=full
1. DJF 13 years ago
  
  """"A foreign policy that lets our trading partners collapse (in Europe); ""
  
  So after more the 60 years of following the foreign policy experts advice and giving Europe loans, grants and free military defense, Europe is still at the brink of collapse. Sounds like the last 60 years did not accomplish much, maybe we should try a different approach.
2. Tim 13 years ago
  
  Heather Butthurt?
  1. SugarFree 13 years ago
    
    Daughter of Herb and Helen Butthurt of Pouthole, Michigan.
    1. Rich 13 years ago
      
      +0
    2. mofo 13 years ago
      
      I lol'd
    3. Ice Nine 13 years ago
      
      It's Hurlbutt, dummy - and she's the daughter of that guy who ate cocaine out of his brother's ass.
      1. Anacreon 13 years ago
        
        tears streaming, thanks
3. Isaac Bartram 13 years ago
  
  [Ron Paul] is openly disdainful of the use of torture and other extrajudicial tactics that have been utilized to fight it.
  
  In what bizarro universe is the above a legitimate criticism of anyone?
  1. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
    
    Uh, to those on Teams RED and BLUE it's perfectly legit.
Karl Hungus 13 years ago

Cheetah is dead at 80.

I had no idea the little fuckers lived that long. RIP, Cheetah. Thanks for the memories.
1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
  
  What I'll remember most about Cheetah was his professionalism and humility. His skill as an actor, of course, was immense, but he also did some nice turns as a director. And, of course, let's not forget his success as a producer.
  1. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
    
    And his achievements as a face tearer offer, let's not forget that!
    1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
      
      Cheetah did no such thing. As his friends know, Cheetah was a peace-loving Quaker and very publicly avoided service in the war as a conscientious objector.
      1. Tim 13 years ago
        
        http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com.....-chimp.jpg
        
        Tim 13 years ago
        
        Actually he served under John Kerry in Nam...
        
        Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        That's Captain Cicero of the Carnival Jungle, a 110-tonner.
        
        Tim 13 years ago
        
        Then there were the NASA years
        http://creativecreativity.type.....970c-800wi
        
        Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
        
        Gavin MacLeod is dead?
        
        Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        Always with the negative waves, Citizen Nothing, always with the negative waves.
      2. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
        
        Cheetah did no such thing.
        
        Cheetah did all these things, and more. That you choose to sweep that under the rug like it never occurred, or to insist that they're somehow mitigated by his accomplishments in film . . . well, that says a lot about your character, sir.
        
        Clich? Bandit 13 years ago
        
        Was the face unresponsive?
  2. Zookeeper 13 years ago
    
    I'll remember his shit flinging.
    1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
      
      They prefer the term "feces."
# 13 years ago

So I was called for someone's political poll and it asked me how i identified politically.

So it got me thinking, how would people here answer if only given the following?

Very Liberal
Liberal
Moderate
Conservative
Very Conservative
1. SugarFree 13 years ago
  
  [click]
  1. Tonio 13 years ago
    
    Damn you, Sugar.
  2. Tim 13 years ago
    
    Good to see you! When I heard that the infamous chain smoking octagenarian chimp had died, I got worried.
    1. Tim 13 years ago
      
      Wait. Where's John?
      1. Trespassers W 13 years ago
        
        I don't think he smokes, does he?
    2. SugarFree 13 years ago
      
      I finger-paint and fling poo, but the similarities end there.
      1. Tim 13 years ago
        
        You never let Jane peel your banana?
        
        SugarFree 13 years ago
        
        That's gross, dude. You've really crossed a line. Not cool.
        
        Tim 13 years ago
        
        Not the Face! Not the face! ARGGHH!
      2. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
        
        I finger-paint and fling poo, but the similarities end there.
        
        A real creative genuis would find a way to combine those two activities.
        
        SugarFree 13 years ago
        
        The art world isn't ready for my masterpiece: Tebow In Bronco Brown; or A Quarterback Is Born Unto The World
        
        db 13 years ago
        
        I think you made the Baby Jesus cry.
        
        Pip 13 years ago
        
        'Bout time the Holiday Child stops sobbing and mans-up.
        
        Karl Hungus 13 years ago
        
        The art world isn't ready for my masterpiece:
        
        Do you use a little plastic Broncos helmet? If so, how do you keep it from slipping off? Glue seems out of the question for a tricky application like this!
        
        SugarFree 13 years ago
        
        I eat cheese for three days before attempting the helmet.
        
        Karl Hungus 13 years ago
        
        That's all well and good, but don't forget to load up on peanuts.
        
        (You need something for the eyes, after all)
2. Spoonman. 13 years ago
  
  "Not Sure," I guess.
3. Tonio 13 years ago
  
  "[click]"
  
  IOW, I don't respond to polls. Ever.
  
  And I'm mentioning this to highlight that there are some people who refuse to be (opinion) polled but who do vote.
  1. Brett L 13 years ago
    
    I like to keep them on the phone until they say "just a few more questions", which usually means the next question is the one they need answered to get paid for the survey. At least, that's how my friends in HS who were survey monkeys did it.
    1. pain in the sass 13 years ago
      
      The proper response to a phone solicitation is to put the phone down on the kitchen counter while the solicitor is talking and bang around with some pots and pans. It sends just the right level of dismissive contempt.
      1. Pip 13 years ago
        
        I put an end to all solicitation calls about six years ago. Evey time I got one, regardless of whether is was a man or a woman, I would ask, "So what are you wearing?
4. Many People Here 13 years ago
  
  "Fuck you", that's what.
5. Rich 13 years ago
  
  Since "Very Moderate" is not on the list, how can *anyone* answer truthfully?
6. sage 13 years ago
  
  * hangs up*
7. PIRS 13 years ago
  
  If it was a human being I would politely try to educate that person and say I am a libertarian, write that down on your survey. If it was a robot I would hang up.
  1. Ted S. 13 years ago
    
    I did that one time I was called for a survey.
    
    Then there was the time in 2010 when I was asked whether Andrew Cuomo should run for Governor or re-election as Attorney General and my response was that he should resign.
Citizen Nothing 13 years ago

Hey, fellas. I was away for a week or so. Nobody ever mentioned those Ron Paul newsletters or tried to use them against him, did they? No? Guess Old Mex and robc were right!
1. SugarFree 13 years ago
  
  It's hard not to gloat, but I will refrain for decorum's sake.
2. Tonio 13 years ago
  
  Dulce et decorum est.
3. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
  
  Nobody ever mentioned those Ron Paul newsletters or tried to use them against him, did they?
  
  Silly goose! The media and the Republican establishment recognize what an important milestone RP's campaign represents, and have taken the high road here. You won't be seeing the newsletters dredged up in a tawdry attempt to smear or discredit Ron Paul. In fact, what newsletters?
4. robc 13 years ago
  
  His poll numbers are still up. I was right.
  
  I never said someone wanted TRY, I said they wouldnt suceed.
  1. robc 13 years ago
    
    Paul's national polling numbers are at a new all-time high.
    
    Hmmmmmmm.......
    1. robc 13 years ago
      
      New Iowa PPP, taken on Dec 26-27:
      
      Paul 24%
      Romney 20%
      Gingrich 13%
      Bachmann 11%
      Perry 10%
      Santorum 10%
      
      It appears the newsletter story is crushing Gingrich somehow.
      
      Damn, CN, could you have been MORE wrong?
      1. Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
        
        Believe me, I have been way more wrong many, many times.
        
        Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        It's because America is still a racist nation. That's why we've never elected a black person to be president.
5. PIRS 13 years ago
  
  Whenever I see them brought up I remind them of Jeremiah Alvesta Wright.
RoboCain 13 years ago

XOMG can feminists write more like spoiled High School girls:

http://jezebel.com/5871332/ron.....h-speakers
1. SugarFree 13 years ago
  
  That's the frequent commenter that became a contributor, by the way. She was hired for her snarky butthurtedness.
2. Kaon Kristen 13 years ago
  
  Small request? Please copypasta the...errr...."relevant" text so I don't have to click over to that site? Pretty please?
  1. PS 13 years ago
    
    Seconded.
  2. Hank 13 years ago
    
    "Relevant" text:
    
    ...
    
    You're welcome.
  3. DesigNate 13 years ago
    
    I just want to say that you are awesome. I learn something new every time I wiki your "word of the week" (for lack of a better term). Thanks!
Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who along with Newt Gingrich didn't submit the required number of signatures to petition to make it onto the Virginia Republican presidential primary ballot, is taking the fight for ballot access to federal court.

Who doesn't want a president who uses federal courts to invalidate a state's rules?
1. robc 13 years ago
  
  The GOP should kick them out of the party for filing a lawsuit against the GOP.
2. pain in the sass 13 years ago
  
  The Team Red and Team Blue establishments do use arcane primary rules to exclude those potential nominees who lack their blessings. Its important to exclude potential troublemakers dontchaknow.
  1. Hank 13 years ago
    
    From what I understand, the state required 10K verified signatures. Perry got exactly 10K signatures and assumed every goddamn one of them would check out.
    
    That's not a fault of arcane primary rules so much as it is continuing evidence of piss-poor management and/or outright stupidity.
    1. BakedPenguin 13 years ago
      
      "What do you mean Felchy Santorum isn't a real person?"
Fist of Etiquette 13 years ago

Iran will block the Straight of Hormuz if Europe interferes with its nuclear program.

This waterway NEEDS an enema!
1. President Obama 13 years ago
  
  PREPARE THE STRONGLY WORDED LETTER!
2. R C Dean 13 years ago
  
  Iran's navy will shortly be resting comfortably on the bottom of the Strait if it gets too uppity, I am quite sure.
  
  I'm wondering, how much oil does China get through the Strait?
  1. Ice Nine 13 years ago
    
    You want us to fuck around with the fearsome Iranian Navy?!
3. GOP Hopeful 13 years ago
  
  A high enema, if you catch my drift.
Tonio 13 years ago

STRAIT of Hormuz, Mike, strait.

Get it straight or you'll be in dire straits.
Sarcazmic 13 years ago

Marge Simpson is still hot.
1. PSA 13 years ago
  
  NSFW
  1. Bender 13 years ago
    
    Cleavage isn't SFW?
    I hate your world.
    1. PSA 13 years ago
      
      It depends on what your boss sees you cleaving.
      1. Bender 13 years ago
        
        Stealing from your boss is still OK, right?
Arduin Grimoire 13 years ago

The Nation: Is the World Really Safer Without the Soviet Union?

If You're Shopping Online Right Now, You're Probably Drunk
1. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  "If You're Shopping Online Right Now, You're Probably Drunk"
  
  Ever since they blocked Amazon at work, I've been drinking much less. Honestly, is this a problem with men? I mean, there are so many other things on the interwebz to look at while drunk that cost nothing.
2. Spoonman. 13 years ago
  
  Why don't you ask the Poles and Czechs if they live in a better world now that the USSR is gone, hmm? Acting like the Warsaw Pact of 1989 wasn't an evil organization is ridiculous and shameful.
  
  I'm lucky to be one of the first people who can't even remember the USSR.
  1. USSR was a Libertarian Success 13 years ago
    
    One heroic industrialist man privately owned and controlled a whole nation.
    
    He was named after Hank Rearden's Metal.
    
    Stalin.
  2. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
    
    Jesus. Yes, the world is safer without two massive nuclear powers facing each other down. What a dumb idea.
    
    A better question is whether we've wasted the opportunities given to us and the rest of the freeish world that came after the collapse. I think the answer is "Not really" in Eastern Europe, and "Mostly" in the rest of the world. Even in Eastern Europe, I think we had a chance to maybe pull Russia more to the West, but we preferred schadenfreude to policy at the time.
RoboCain 13 years ago

NY Times Uses Deceptive Statistics to Promote Anti-Gun Agenda. Again.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c.....more-90403
1. Tim 13 years ago
  
  Heather Butthurt?
2. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  I like the statistic that members of Mayors Against Illegal Guns are 8 times more likely to be convicted of a crime than a NC CCW permit holder.
RoboCain 13 years ago

Hippy chicks with guns, cats and dogs playing together...

"I'm a yoga instructor, I work at a vegan bakery -- and I also like to shoot guns."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50.....ownership/
1. Devil's Advocate 13 years ago
  
  The target shooting industry now caters to female shooters. There are pink pistols,
  
  Yes, a pistol being pink is exactly a primary characteristic I look for in a gun. FFS.
  1. pain in the sass 13 years ago
    
    Candy colored guns were a reaction to pinheaded gun bans based on gun color.
    
    Also, if you talk to gun shop owners, you will find that they always get a new flock of women coming in to buy a gun just after a well-publicized shooting.
    1. Devil's Advocate 13 years ago
      
      I imagine more women do go in for guns after a shooting, but I am pretty sure they don't become interested in guns because someone colored one pink. Why is it that marketers think the way to a woman's heart is to color something pink (or at all, for that matter), and then somehow it becomes a "woman's product." It's fricking annoying, and infantilizing. Do men buy a certain gun because someone colors them baby blue (or some other "masculine" color-- oh wait, it isn't "masculine," is it, because baby blue is a color associated with children)? But leaving that aside, do men buy a particular gun because it's colored, or because it fits their hand the way they want, has a heft they like, and fires comfortably for them?
      1. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
        
        I have a STEADFAST rule when it comes to my guns: Since I do not make a living with a rifle or a pistol, life is too short to own an ugly gun.
        
        Though heft, feel, etc is paramount, if it's ugly, I don't even try it on.
      2. pain in the sass 13 years ago
        
        I have known men who buy cars because they are cherry red.
        
        You can pretty much bet that some tricked out gun with appeal to a certain kind of black man, if you know what I mean. Nigga likes him some bling.
2. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  I once ran into my yoga instructor at a gun show. Tallahassee is like that.
  1. White Indian 13 years ago
    
    I once rammed into my yoga instructor after she said, is that a gun, or are you happy to see me?
  2. RoboCain 13 years ago
    
    Then you had hot tantric anal buttsex?
    1. Brett L 13 years ago
      
      No. She's married, and her husband's a nice guy. Besides, if you sleep with the instructor and piss her off, you have to find a new hunting ground. If you sleep with students and piss them off, not so much.
      1. DesigNate 13 years ago
        
        Nice!
3. Isaac Bartram 13 years ago
  
  Most states require training and safety courses before using firearms, and there are programs popping up throughout the country teaching women to do just that.
  
  Actually, I'm fairly sure that most states do not require training and safety courses before using firearms, though some states do mandate taking a hunter safety course before a hunting license can be issued.
  
  Also, many shooting clubs require a safety class to qualify for membership.
  
  Good instruction in both safety and technique are good thing for a gun owner to have. As most here agree, I believe, good things do not need to be mandated by the state.
  
  < favorite gripe about "liberal Hollywood writers >
  Watching a crime/spy show recently I was struck by the hero worrying that his girlfriend would get into trouble for the "unregistered firearms" in the trunk of her car if the Miami police stopped her. Ummm...memo to the writers of Burn Notice, there is no such thing as an "unregistered firearm" in the State of Florida (nor in the majority of other states). There is no requirement to register a firearm with any government agency in the state, nor is there any requirement to get a license or permit to own one. There are some annoying hurdles to actually buying one but that's a different story.
  
  < /favorite gripe about "liberal Hollywood writers >
  1. Spoonman. 13 years ago
    
    She definitely won't get in trouble for blowing up other people's private property every week, though. You can just walk away from that.
    1. Isaac Bartram 13 years ago
      
      Yeah, also, Michael seemed to be way more upset about her "unregistered firearms" than he was about the fact that she was driving a stolen car.
      
      🙂
  2. Brett L 13 years ago
    
    Not having a proper BATFE license for many of those rifles would be a federal offense. I doubt Fiona qualifies for a BATFE license. Cut down shotguns and full-auto definitely require federal licensure.
    1. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
      
      It's not actually a license so much as a tax stamp.
    2. Isaac Bartram 13 years ago
      
      Brett, it's still bullshit.
      
      As near as I could tell Fi had a semi-auto scoped rifle, a bolt action scoped rifle, a tactical shotgun with a barrel well within BATFE guidelines and a collection of pistols. I don't know of any law in Florida that restricts these.
      
      Now if the problem is that she's of indeterminate national origin and may be in the US illegally, that's a different question. There is no protocol under which an illegal alien can legally own firearms in the US registered or otherwise.
      
      My larger point is that the writers seem to be awfully fuzzy on what is legal and what is not under various state and national laws in any number of crime/espionage/military dramas that they write.
Ice Nine 13 years ago

Cheetah is dead at 80.

It always bugged me that they didn't call this chimpanzee "Giraffe" instead of Cheetah. What were they thinking?
1. Monkeys With Diapers 13 years ago
  
  They had other things on their minds?
2. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
  
  He wasn't named after the cat. His name stems from his many, many marital problems.
  1. Ice Nine 13 years ago
    
    I know; the babes just can't resist the ol' poo-flinging move.
  2. Barely Suppressed Rage 13 years ago
    
    Then why didn't they name him "Playah"?
    
    Too racist?
    1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
      
      That wasn't a term of art back when Cheetah was active.
PantsFan 13 years ago

Los Angeles: Taking on the Key issues of the day.
1. RoboCain 13 years ago
  
  The irony is that condoms would make work less safe due to the increased friction.
  1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
    
    Friction. Heat. Energy. Are we missing an alternative energy source here?
    1. Monty 13 years ago
      
      Worked in Crank.
Karl Hungus 13 years ago

It always bugged me that they didn't call this chimpanzee "Giraffe" instead of Cheetah. What were they thinking?

If I ever own a chimp, I'm going to name him Face Tearer Offer.
RoboCain 13 years ago

Mobile, Alabama Mayor Sam Jones -- member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns -- held a burglary suspect at gunpoint, with a gun he might have been carrying illegally.

http://www.ccrkba.org/?p=2801
SIV 13 years ago

Any authoritarian-statist updates from Bleeding Butthole Libertarian today?
1. SugarFree 13 years ago
  
  It should really be called "Libertarians Trying To Get Tenure."
  1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
    
    The libertarians who do have tenure got it by hiding their libertarianism.
    1. Tim 13 years ago
      
      and peeling bananas...
    2. SugarFree 13 years ago
      
      My point exactly.
      
      Especially poignant is how they praise Bastiat without, apparently, understanding a thing he said... but then people who favor property rights are "right-libterarians" and are evil Republicans mumble mumble.
      1. MNG 13 years ago
        
        SF and SIV realizing that they are even on the fringes of libertarianism, which is a fringe movement itself...Priceless.
        
        You are. As Tulpa has noted here before most respectable libertarians are utilitarians (think the law and economics movement and Friedman-type economists), not deontologists. People who think government intrusion creates more problems than it solves are interesting. People who flatly rule out coercion even, say, to save a child's life, because PROPERTY RIGHTZ IS ABSOLUTE are on the fringes where they belong.
        
        Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
        
        So why aren't people who say that saving the life of even one American child, no matter what the cost (in money, liberty, in the lives children of other nationalities, blah, blah, blah) on the fringes, too?
        Just askin'.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        Because that is the point. For most people actual human welfare trumps other concerns. Of course "family" matters and American lives tend to play better, but if someone out there were blatantly saying they would sacrifice kids foriegn or domestic for some abstract value like a property right they would probably be escorted to the fringe. As Jesus said, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath...
        
        Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
        
        Because that is the point.
        
        ???
        Sigh. Fine. I tried.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        Look, you don't have to be a juvenile all your life. Why not instead try to honestly understand what someone else is saying before retreating back into the echo-chamber of H&R and it's right-leaning hipster snark?
        
        Here's exactly what I said: that if you weigh things, whether that be abstract ideas like property rules, or even material things, more than human welfare as, say, measured in the well being or life of a child, then that tends to make you look extreme and on the fringe. Then you said "well, what about people who say we should expend lots of resources to save the life of one child, should they not be on that fringe" and I said "of course not, the entire point of what I said is that human welfare measures like the life of a child vastly outweigh other concerns when balanced."
        
        So, if you want to drop the snark, what was I (sigh!) missing there?
        
        Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
        
        You know what, MNG?
        Either
        #1: You're too goddamned disingenuous or stupid to follow the logic of your own arguments or to correctly understand those that differ with your own.
        
        #2: I'm a sophomoric flibbertigibbet who will never be able to, or bother with, parsing out you're oh-so-subtle points.
        
        If you want to vote #2, you certainly won't be alone. And you may be right.
        
        Bye.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        Fuck you CN. I don't know what bug is up your butt lately, but we've had two or three exchanges here, that's all. I've tried to honestly explain where I am coming from in detail, and yet I get this goofy hipster snark from you instead of the same treatment, and now you throwing your hands up and running back to your echo chamber. If you think I missed something then why not take ONE post to try to explain it further before going "oh sigh, I tried, this guy is hopeless!"
        
        Look, this is a democracy. And your view is currently a minority one. If you believe in what you believe in the only way you are going to see it implemented is in persuading people, especially people like me who are at least willing to come to your site and hear you out. If people like me don't automatically agree with you or see your point it may, I dunno, be because we don't share a gazillion assumptions with your philosophy. Throwing up your hands and running back to a circle jerk of like minded folks is helpful, how?
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        That human life is worth more than abstract rules like property laws is pretty ingrained in our moral society. Look at our laws that, even in days in which property was held much more sancrosanct like in the old common law days, forbid one to set up a lethal trap for trespassers, or the old "necessity" defense that allowed property violations to save human lives.
        
        Likewise our society has also thought expenditures of material resources to save a life is justified. Now, if you want to point out that there is a problem here in that resources expended could have been better spent to save more overall lives, then sure, you've got a point. People are often irrational especially when things like children and immediately dire situations are involved. But none of that (sigh!) undermines what I was saying.
        
        Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
        
        if you want to point out that there is a problem here in that resources expended could have been better spent to save more overall lives, then sure, you've got a point. People are often irrational especially when things like children and immediately dire situations are involved...
        
        So you did understand my point but chose to ignore it. I see. I want a re-vote.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        Why couldn't you just say that? Why all the hipster drama?
        
        Is your point that people should realize that in irrationally rushing to expend lots of resources to "save the life of even one child" they are damaging other (maybe child) lives?
        
        Well, if you would have skipped the drama and elaborated you would find I agree with you. But notice that's the kind of thing a utilitarian libertarian can "live" with, because it is just an empirical confusion separating you from that irrational person, not some absolute line. The deontologist doesn't make that argument, he says "we can't expend that resource to save the life of even one child because it would be more wrong to coercivelly take the resource."
        
        And THAT was my point.
        
        Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        I don't agree that we're mostly utilitarians. We may see utility in libertarianism, but most of the libertarians I know also believe as they do because they consider libertarianism more morally right than other systems.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        I agree that most libertarians I run into are deontologists, my point was that most "respectable libertarians" (i.e., the ones that are not thought of as nuts by most non-libertarians) were utilitarians.
        
        Deontologists are kind of by definition extreme...
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        The whole idea with deontology is "this line must never be crossed, never, ever, no matter what is balanced on the other side of the moral ledger" It's pretty absolute and extreme. Don't get me wrong, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it is kind of necessarily an extreme one.
        
        I find in most moral and political disagreements its not reason that is messing up, it's just that in any debate there are values on both sides and the values are weighted differently by different folks. Everyone I know puts some value on, say, liberty, non-coercion or property rights, but man libertarians tend to put a lot more weight there than many others. Then when you argue with someone that doesn't share that view they come off as evil "Statist fucks" (because only an evil person would weigh the libertarian values so comparitively low) or "disinengenous" (because no person would "really" put such a "low" value on what is "obviously" so compelling).
        
        But what a position for a small minority to be in, walking around thinking the vast majority of your fellow man, neighbors and co-workers are evil, disingenous statist fucks! The utilitarian libertarian can at least think that those that don't agree just haven't worked out some empirical issue yet (for example, that program X actually harms more humans than it helps).
        
        DesigNate 13 years ago
        
        Hey look everybody, it's MNG. Hi MNG.
        
        CrackertyAssCracker 13 years ago
        
        You can take your "respect" and shove it straight up your ass.
        
        What a shitty argument: "YOU GOT NO REZPECT MAN! WHY CANT YOU JUS B REZPECTABLE!" with a slight overtones of "FOR DEH CHILDRENZ".
  2. MNG 13 years ago
    
    Oh Jesus, SIV and SF in a paleo-hipster lovefest? I guess it was moving in that direction...
2. sage 13 years ago
  
  I'd love to help you but I just cancelled my subscription.
MNG 13 years ago

It's not the newsletters that are going to sink Paul with the GOP, it's his non-interventionist policy. I caught Fox and CNN the other day and saw first Huckabee, then Gingrich, then Romney all say they could not support Paul because he would not sufficiently want to intervene in Iran. In 08 they skewered him over this too (and torture and the WOT, remember Romney and Ghouliania trying to one-up each other on how they would double Gitmo and waterboarding and ganging up on Paul on the issue).

It's disgusting. I hope he surprises these bastards in Iowa, though I can't see much hope for him in the military-worshipping Southern states like S. Carolina...
1. Tim 13 years ago
  
  The south? Well it will be hard on the pro-empire types but they also will not want to vote for that devil worshipping Mormon creature either.
  1. MNG 13 years ago
    
    Paul's lowest numbers are in S. Carolina. The South has always loved it some pork, but because of its conservatism and racism it can't come in social programs, so they get it in military projects.
    
    I remember my respect for Paul, which has always been high, shot up exponentially when at a debate in S. Carolina he flatly said he would take a cutting knife to the military budget. The crowd booed of course, but Paul really displayed his trademark courage there.
    1. Tim 13 years ago
      
      But what of the Mormon boogeyman?
      1. MNG 13 years ago
        
        Does the militarism of the South > their general intolerance? Yeah, I think so. Romney spoke at the Citadel and promised to increase, that's right INCREASE defense budgets as President. That plays to the Southern GOP like a lap dance does to Elliot Spitzer.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        Iirc McCain won S. Carolina last time. War hero, bomb, bomb, Iran, that kind of stuff overrode even the social conservative appeal of the Huckabee. That's powerful.
        
        Tim 13 years ago
        
        Yet that asshole Gingrich couldn't even get on the Virginia ballot. I think there's more to it than just jingoism.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        That's not some discretionary thing. Gingrich has comparatively a poor organization, he just didn't make the requirements. Those state election boards usually have equal number of Dems and GOPers on them, so sympathy for Gingrich won't help.
    2. sage 13 years ago
      
      conservatism and racism
      
      And don't forget tractor pulls.
      1. MNG 13 years ago
        
        Do you enjoy tractor pulls? I don't, and I mock those who do. I mean, wtf, is it horribly wrong to like some cultural things more than others and express that?
        
        I've always thought this was goofy and really based in this idea that "hey, you're a liberal, you're supposed to be a hyper-tolerant, multicultural relativist, but we caught you judging people! Nah, nah, nah!"
        
        Sorry I didn't reinforce your caricature of liberals. I do make those kind of stereotypical judgments all the time. You "got" me...
        
        Karl Hungus 13 years ago
        
        Do you enjoy tractor pulls?
        
        Nope. It's genetic, a result of my mother and sister not being the same person. Having said that, I LOVE me some jet truck. Have you ever seen that thing? They run it at airshows. It's literally a pickup truck with a jet engine mounted to the bed. Tops out somewhere north of 300mph.
        
        Red Rocks Rockin 13 years ago
        
        I've always thought this was goofy and really based in this idea that "hey, you're a liberal, you're supposed to be a hyper-tolerant, multicultural relativist, but we caught you judging people! Nah, nah, nah!"
        
        That tolerance (well, fetishizing, really) only extends towards non-white and/or non-Southern cultural mores. I thought this was universally understood.
        
        mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
        
        ^^THIS^^
        
        Liberals are more likely to try and empathize with a Pakistani hooker than with someone who lives a few miles outside of town.
        
        The cultural elitism has a purpose in their circles however. It's a sign to both themselves and others around them that they are better than the guy in front of them in the grocery store line who's wearing RealTree?.
    3. Karl Hungus 13 years ago
      
      . . . at a debate in S. Carolina he flatly said he would take a cutting knife to the military budget.
      
      It's a crying shame that the very quality which sets him apart from every other politician in this race is the same quality which will ensure he's not elected, or probably even nominated.
    4. DesigNate 13 years ago
      
      Fuck you. Not everyone in the South is a racist or a homophobe or conservative.
  2. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
    
    We worship the military in the South? Is there a particular branch we prefer, or is it just all things militaristic?
    
    I don't think anyone argues here--at all--that Paul's weakness, and really his only major one within the GOP, is his foreign policy positions. While many of us tend to agree with him to varying extents, adherents of both major parties tend to want to keep empire-building. So threats to that are viewed with disdain at best.
    1. MNG 13 years ago
      
      It's pretty general Pro, as long as the branch involves dressing up and shooting people they love it down South.
      
      Remember when Alabama's Senator, a "cut the government Tea Partier", put the hold on legislation? It was over a cut to defense spending in his district.
    2. Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
      
      You grit-eating fuckers worship the Coast Guard. Don't deny it.
      1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        Only when we're drunk and maudlin.
      2. Brett L 13 years ago
        
        Who else is gonna save my beer cooler when it goes overboard in the Gulf?
        
        Pro Libertate 13 years ago
        
        God bless their good works.
        
        db 13 years ago
        
        They're doing God's work in some of America's roughest waters.
2. Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
  
  But couldn't foreign policy help in those states that allow crossover voting, especially if the other candidates all split the "hawk" vote?
  1. MNG 13 years ago
    
    Sadly CN many lefties and indies are not going to see Obama for a hawk. They will just think "hey, the Dems are soft on that kind of thing", something the GOP has actually had a big hand in cultivating over the years...
    1. Citizen Nothing 13 years ago
      
      But I'm thinking strategery here. Why even vote in the Dem primary? If there ever was a time in which to jump to the other party to try to influence their nominee, it would be now.
      Heck, Paul's camp ought to be pumping the "Paul-can't-beat-Obama" meme behind the scenes, just to encourage Dems to vote Paul.
      1. MNG 13 years ago
        
        If you're state is not an open primary that will cause a lot of people to not cross. I don't want to register GOP to vote for Paul, even if I do prefer him to Obama (I was willing to do it for Johnson, but that's not an issue now he's gone LP).
        
        In open primaries yes Paul could attract Dems and indies, McCain did it. But I think while it is "obvious" around here that Obama is a hawk too it is less obvious to most other people. Libya was seen as pretty small potatoes (the last I heard it cost us 1 billion dollars and no casualties) and they see him drawing down in Afghanistan and Iraq.
        
        MNG 13 years ago
        
        I think the best way for Paul, or any libertarian, to draw Indie and Dem support is to play up the anti-WOD angle. Obama flat out reneged and dithered on his medical marijuana promises, he deserves no support for that alone imo.
    2. KDN 13 years ago
      
      They will just think "hey, the Dems are soft on that kind of thing", something the GOP has actually had a big hand in cultivating over the years
      
      And this is why the GOP will circle the wagons against Paul no matter his strengths in any other issue. The party is loathe to surrender its primary electoral advantage at the Federal level. It's a better idea long-term to keep that image going than to nominate a candidate that best satisfies the fickle public's disgust with whatever domestic policy shenanigans that might have been occurred for the past 20+ years.
      1. MNG 13 years ago
        
        I hear you, but I don't think it's merely electoral advantage. They actually are into that jingoism in the GOP.
        
        I don't know if you remember a while back when National Review, in a cover article by David Frum no less, drummed out of the conservative movement notable conservatives that opposed the Iraq War, labeling them essentially traitors that hated America. Warmongering is a defining issue with this crowd.
3. Jerry 13 years ago
  
  The problem with the South is, as Mencken put it, that the best stock was killed off in the Civil War. And they have only become jingoist nationalists because of the welfare provided by the military bases built there during the Cold War.
RoboCain 13 years ago

Dumbest Democrat and Republican Quotes of 2011

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoor.....es-of-2011

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoor.....es-of-2011
P Brooks 13 years ago

Speaking of poo-flinging, look who crawled out of his ditch.
P Brooks 13 years ago

Paul's weakness, and really his only major one within the GOP, is his foreign policy positions.

I hate to say it, but I see Paul's "foreign policy weaknesses" as pretty much a sideshow.

How many campaign contributions has Doctor Paul received from Goldman Sachs or Citibank? What Titans of Industry flank him on the podium when he speaks? Do you think Jeff Immelt expects to carry on in his high visibility "jobs creation consultant" job in a Ron Paul administration?

When was the last time Kindly Old Grandpa Buffett invited him over for bridge and apple cider on the front porch?
1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
  
  Yes, the fact that he'll try to cut off the gravy train is significant as well. But that's not his problem with GOP voters at large. I've tried to push Paul on Republicans I know, and their objections are almost universally related to concerns that he'll weaken us militarily and make us vulnerable to attack.
  1. romulus augustus 13 years ago
    
    Doesn't spreading our military out all over the globe actually make us weaker and vulnerable to attack? Any military historian can dredge up numerous examples of this. You know who else thought he could win a two front war.
    1. MNG 13 years ago
      
      Not if real, existential threats to our us are numerous and all over the globe. And that is how many in the GOP see it. Talk to them, watch their shows, they are always talking about dangerous threats here and there. Islamaphobia. Russia reasserting itself. China asserting itself. Chavez threatening us. We have to be everywhere to fight that.
      
      GOPers aren't evil, they just see more and more dangerous threats around us. That's why they see Paul as flat out naive but dangerous. Iran is going to blow up Israel and the US, donchaknow (and in fairness to them Iran has done and said things that make a reasonable person somewhat wary of them).
MNG 13 years ago

"But that's not his problem with GOP voters at large."

Yup.

"their objections are almost universally related to concerns that he'll weaken us militarily and make us vulnerable to attack."

Double yup.

I will say it seems to be a positive thing that most GOPers I run into that won't support Paul don't bring up his WOD stance as the reason.
1. CrackertyAssCracker 13 years ago
  
  I agree. It's the foreign policy thing. If he'd just bow down and worship satan he would be given power over all the lands he can see.
P Brooks 13 years ago

I don't know very many actual Republicans. What I foresee is the crony capitalist vote banding together, pulling out their checkbooks, and stoking the boilers on the "Anybody but Paul" train. I do not see them, even for a moment, hesitating to throw in with Mittens.
1. Pro Libertate 13 years ago
  
  I agree completely. The last person they want is Paul.
  1. MNG 13 years ago
    
    In theory maybe. But look, these things can be played many ways. If you are a direct beneficiary of the federal government then I can't see you supporting Paul. But a lot of companies and people feel burdens from the feds too, and that would play well with them.
    
    Maybe we will get lucky and Paul will be a major player in this nomination, heck maybe even win. But if he doesn't it will not be because of his stance against crony capitalistm, it will be because interventionist foriegn policy (especially in areas like "defending Israel" and "fighting terror") and support for militarism is increasingly joining abortion and taxation in becoming a litmus test for GOP candidates.
  2. mad libertarian guy 13 years ago
    
    I'd argue that they're so opposed to Paul that even if he were to somehow win the nomination, they'd get Mittens or Newt to run as an independent just to throw the election to Obama.
    
    Teams RED and BLUE are but two wings of the same party. WIth establishment guys, they know it doesn't matter who wins because statism will endure. With Paul, a wrench gets thrown in to the machine and NEITHER team wins.
    
    Expect Team RED to do anything and everything to keep Paul from getting the nomination, and if he does, expect a 3rd party run with a Team RED establishmentarian to throw the election to Obama.
P Brooks 13 years ago

And- The overwhelming majority of the objection to Paul's "isolationist" policies, as far as I can see, is based on the terror threat to the gravy train.
Gerald GoFarmer 13 years ago

Kinda makes you wonder some times.

http://www.privacy-works.tk
SugarFree 13 years ago

Learned your lesson yet, CN?
1. MNG 13 years ago
  
  Yes, he entered an exchange with someone who wasn't immediately converted. That is a cardinal sin for SF. He should run back into the echo chamber of Drudge links, comparisons of hot chicks, Game of Thrones reviews, calling those who disagree with you "fucks" and Bastiat quotes...
  1. MNG 13 years ago
    
    I actually remember when SF "realized" I was being "disengenous" and not worth arguing with. I mentioned that libertarians should not always get on the high horse about how they were always against violent coercion because they realized violently making someone do what they didn't want to do was OK sometimes. SF said "When?" and I said, well, when someone is trespassing or when someone is attacking you, you support police coming and using force to make that guy stop what he was doing (that's the literal definition of violent and coercion btw). He went ballistic, "Don't you know that's TOTALLY different? That's violence as retaliation not initiating violence! Lord you must be disengenous not to see that and see how crucial that is!"
    
    Of course "in retaliation" and "inititated" are not in the normal, usual definitions of the concepts "violent" and "coercive." And THAT was my entire poin, that this was a critical, "obvious" assumption to many libertarians that was simply not so "obviously critical" to others. It's actually a very common point made by non-libertarians trying to understand libertarians. But of course, it was just me being disengenous, so SF went back to debating with only "honest" (in other words, people who agreed with him on everthing important) people.
    1. MNG 13 years ago
      
      vi?o?lence/?v?(?)l?ns/Noun: 1.Behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something
      
      noun?/k???rZH?n/ ?/-SH?n/?
      coercions, plural
      
      1.The practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats
      
      Note, neither concept includes this idea of "justifying retaliation for initial violent coercion." That's something imported in as a critical assumption for libertarians. That was of course my point in that discussion.
      
      But of course, I was just being disengenous. It's obvious.
    2. DesigNate 13 years ago
      
      So are you saying that if someone breaks into my house I should just let them steal my stuff and ass rape me because I believe in the NAP?
      
      Honest question, I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly.
P Brooks 13 years ago

You guys are so mean.

An adult shows up and generously donates his time and infinitely superior wisdom in an effort to raise you up from the muck and mire of juvenile ignorance, and you make fun of him.

It's a tragedy, is what it is.
1. Brett L 13 years ago
  
  The best day of my life was when I realized that people could stay wrong on the internet and I didn't have to care.
2. MNG 13 years ago
  
  Actually, I come hear to learn about a political philosophy that I respect. But when something doesn't jibe to me I say so. I don't think I'm being disengenous in doing that, quite the opposite, and yes I lament the juvenile knee jerk response to that.
  
  Talking with libertarians has taught me a lot and actually changed my opinions on things. I'm a much stronger fan of the market as a vehicle for respecting individual efforts and promoting the general welfare than most liberals I know and I think the tie between property rights and other rights is more critical than they do. I got that from reading Reason and talking with folks here. Specifically my debates with TAO convinced me that cap and trade, something I didn't want to support anyway, was inherently unworkable.
  1. MNG 13 years ago
    
    "Talking with libertarians has taught me a lot and actually changed my opinions on things."
    
    I should add though, that it's often also made me realize how there is a significant number of libertarians who are essentially selfish, juvenile, misanthropic assholes who just want to hang out with other people in agreement with them and condesendingly lament how stupid and evil the rest of the world is for not being converted to their view in every facet. It's a crazy view for a minority viewpoint in a democracy, but there you have it.
    1. DesigNate 13 years ago
      
      If you talk to a group of any political stripe it's going to be the same way. When my wife worked for one of the apartment complexes at our college the student staff was all democrat and they "just want(ed) to hang out with other people in agreement with them and condesendingly lament how stupid and evil the rest of the world is for not being converted to their view in every facet."
      
      Of course they thought they were being completely selfless and quite mature for their views.
    2. Pip 13 years ago
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBrKDpNAVSU
Tim 13 years ago

Heather Butthurt

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