Durban Climate Change Talks Suspended

Durban, South Africa - The talks at the U.N. climate change conference which were supposed to conclude today (Friday) have been suspended and will resume tomorrow. Developing countries rebelled against a proposed text which essentially eliminated the Kyoto Protocol in favor of a process that aims to create a "legal framework" that would require future reductions in greenhouse gas emissions from both developed and developing countries. The South African conference hosts are seeking to find some formulation that would satisfy all 194 members of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change. The Durban climate change talks are on the verge of collapse. More tomorrow.

Comments

[Joe M]

Maybe the OWSers could teach them how to achieve consensus.

[Colin]

By raping?

[Episiarch]

THAT WHAT STEVE SMITH AT CONFERENCE FOR! THAT, AND STEVE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT PACIFIC NORTHWEST RAIN FORESTS!

[calm mentor]

Speaking of raping and pillaging - don't forget the Alberta Tar Sands: This morning in Durban, South Africa, a group of youth and indigenous activists from Canada gave delegates to the U.N. climate talks mock gift bags containing samples of fake tar sands along with tourism brochures for Canada and Canadian flags.

Freakin' tourism brochures...!!! Hey, planet savers c'mon over to Canada, but please do it in a 'green" way.

http://www.democracynow.org/20.....rotest_tar

[Juice]

They're way ahead of you.

http://www.democracynow.org/20.....tes_occupy

[Joe M]

MOHAMED ASLAM: [echoed by People's Mic] You need to save us. The islands can't sink. We have our rights. We have a right to live. We have a right for home. You can't decide our destiny. We will have to be saved.

Head asplode.

[Juice]

When it asploded it went Shosholoza!

[Mr. FIFY]

I heard that annoying bitch earlier today. Why do liberal environmentalists (and just plain whiners in general) sound this fucking slappable?

[AlmightyJb]

You especially want to slap the ones that look like Garfunkle.

[Mr. FIFY]

Extra hard slaps.

[Rob McMillin]

Yay?

[Colin]

Hopefully, it'll stay collapsed.

For good.

Imagine: a world without alarmism.

[Episiarch]

Never has been, never will be. Besides, the world is going to end next year anyway! There's nothing we can do!

[juris imprudent]

You can buy my end-of-the-world survival kit for a mere $1000. Isn't the survival of you and your loved ones worth that? I even guarantee it! You survive or double your money back.

[Episiarch]

IT'S TOO LATE!!!

[Sevo]

juris imprudent|12.9.11 @ 6:05PM|#
"You can buy my end-of-the-world survival kit for a mere $1000"

Piker!
Mine guarantees moral absolution and is offered at a Christmas special price of only $20K!
Don't you want to be SAVED!?

[China]

We are prepared to take a global leadership position until the United States decides to step up to the plate and meet their obligations.

[Apatheist]

Go for it dudes. Cut your carbon emissions all you want.

But your not going to are you? You are sitting there laughing your asses off as the western world hamstrings their economies and just want the US to get in on the fun.

[Apatheist]

your you're

[Sy]

Yes, because the last thing we should do is wait and let China's housing, energy, and financial bubbles bust like the infected cysts they are.
They're doing the same shit we were doing circa '03. Fuck 'em.

[Juice]

So the poor countries want the rich countries to put brakes on their economies to combat climate change AND to pay them climate reparations, because, you know, climate change. But when poor countries are asked to reduce greenhouse gas emissions too, whoa there! Are you crazy?

[Geenies]

Why yes we are. We actually believe people will voluntarily lower their living standards - and be fucking happy about to.

[AlmightyJb]

You're obviously a racist.

[Sevo]

Juice|12.9.11 @ 5:24PM|#
'So the people want something for nothing...'

Yep.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's their raison d'etre. It will never end.

[Apatheist]

Who exactly is going to enforce this "legal framework?"

That's what I thought.

[AlmightyJb]

Ron, I'm pretty sure since you're an American and were there, that it's entirely your fault the talks collapsed. Thank You.

[Old Mexican]

Developing countries rebelled against a proposed text which essentially eliminated the Kyoto Protocol in favor of a process that aims to create a "legal framework" that would require future reductions in greenhouse gas emissions from both developed and developing countries.

Which was the equivalent of asking senior citizens to give up their Social Security benefits for the good of the "country," and just as feasible.

[Ken Shultz]

Now maybe the environmentalists who squandered all that hot CO2 on a treaty can refocus their efforts on something realistic and practical...

For instance, why aren't environmentalists here in the U.S. up in arms against the American domestic solar industry, which has been fighting as of late to slap tariffs on imported solar panels?

"The United States Commerce Department opened a trade case against China's solar panel makers earlier this month, at the request of SolarWorld Industries America and six other American solar companies.

The Commerce Department said it was considering punitive tariffs of 50 to 250 percent on Chinese solar panels, based on preliminary evidence that China was "dumping" solar panels in the United States below the cost of making and marketing them."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11......html?_r=1

If I were a politically active environmentalist? I'd be mad as hell if the Obama Administration made any effort whatsoever to keep cheap solar panels out of the hands of American consumers!

If the Chinese government wants to squander its resources on keeping solar panels as cheap as possible for American consumers, then by all means we should let them. ...especially from an environmentalist standpoint.

Isn't making solar panels dirt cheap supposed to be the holy grail of AGW fighters everywhere?

[Sevo]

Ken Shultz|12.9.11 @ 6:21PM|#
"...For instance, why aren't environmentalists here in the U.S. up in arms against the American domestic solar industry, which has been fighting as of late to slap tariffs on imported solar panels?..."

Because that would have to do with results rather than intent?
Just guessing.

[Ken Shultz]

That would seem to be the case.

There's the anti-capitalism/market forces thing at work too...

If the solution is coming from market forces anyway? Then there's no way they can be for it.

Which speaks, like you said, to intent. If the solution to global warming is Chinese entrepreneurs making solar panels as cheap as possible--in order to make a buck? Then the environmentalists wanna try to find a better way.

They're so programed to thinking that government intervention, international treaties and forced sacrifice are the solution--all of which massages their good intentions--that when a solution presents itself some other way, they wouldn't recognize it if it bit them in the ass.

Holy shit! The Obama Administration is trying to make solar panels cost 50% to 250% more than they need to, and the environmentalists aren't jumping all over him for it?!

I hate to sound like an echo radio Republican, but if it were a Republican president doing that, the environmentalists would be all over it.

[Bucky]

guess i won't be seeing solar panels at the local dollar store or five below anytime soon, shit!

[John Galt]

Good-for-nothing altruism stalls, what a shame...or not. How many times do we have to expose this scam before it goes away!?

[insensitive monster]

Are these do gooders coprophiliacs? They really love to fuck with shit.

BTW, I just learned of this word today and wanted to share it with everyone.

[Nike Dunk Shoes]

thanks

[Franlkin Howard]

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[christy]

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[Ford Prefect]

In the middle of all this Canada has approved the expansion of new mine - oil sands - that the greenies have been dumping millions of dollars to try to stop. All and all it has been a good wk.

[Over50]

Does anyone know how many people the US sent to this obvious CF and what it cost us?

[Patrick Rich]

Dumping, as with China and solar panels, proceeds in stages:

1. Flood the market with below-cost product.
2. Potential competition is destroyed, and recovery time and costs become prohibitive.
3. Raise prices after establishing a monopoly position and buyers have no options.

The situation never remains at "1." That's just a means to an end.

[Mike Giles]

"Patrick Rich|12.10.11 @ 9:46AM|#

Dumping, as with China and solar panels, proceeds in stages:

1. Flood the market with below-cost product.
2. Potential competition is destroyed, and recovery time and costs become prohibitive.
3. Raise prices after establishing a monopoly position and buyers have no options.

The situation never remains at "1." That's just a means to an end."

You neglected "1-A": Chinese government spends billions subsidizing Solar Panel makers, while they sell below manufacturing costs.

You also neglected "2-A": potential competitors take notes while Chinese manufacturers find and solve all the bugs in manufacturing, which reduces start up costs.

And you neglected "3-A": monopoly position, impossible to maintain without some type of government intervention which is impossible in international market.

[Ken Shultz]

I'm not sure Obama imposing a 50%-250% tariff on imported solar panels is better than monopoly profits for Chinese manufacturers.

I'm even less sure that China has the ability to sustain a monopoly despite competition from elsewhere in the world--especially Japan and Taiwan.

If the Obama Administration imposes tariffs as high as 250%, then that's a sure thing. China's ability to sustain a monopoly--not a sure thing.

IF China actually succeeds in monopolizing the solar panel manufacturing industry--and in doing so it raises the price of solar panels by more than 50-250%? We should cross that bridge IF and when we get to it.

China has some comparative advantages in solar panels anyway, apart from cheap manufacturing capacity, including easy access to rare earth metals. If they're going to require manufacturers, effectively, to manufacture in China in order to get access to those rare earth metals, then a tariff on Chinese imports will be a lot more damaging to the deployment of solar energy in the U.S. in the future.

If the Obama Administration wanted to make the U.S. more competitive in the solar (and alternative energy) industries, it should ease the environmental regulations that are strangling the mining of rare earth metals here in the U.S.

The time has come for environmentalists to come to terms with economic realities. They're gonna have to make some choices--that shouldn't be so tough. You want the U.S. to make big progress in the fight against global warming? You're gonna have to ease up on whining about environmental damage done in the mining of rare earth metals here in the U.S.

[Occupooper]

But, but, what do you mean I can get the latest Iphone 'cause someone else cornered the market on rare dirt?

[bflat879]

So, the simple solution would be for all of these countries to meet our emission levels and then we'll talk, since they all want to blame us for not being there leading.

Our environmentalists have ham-strung this country enough that China wouldn't h ave an economy if they tried to match our CO2 levels, even if it were on a per capita basis.

[BackwardsBoy]

Let me see if I have this right:

"Climate change" is still being treated as a serious threat although it was revealed as a hoax two years ago?

[crypticguise]

We're getting closer and closer to the END OF THE GLOBAL WARMING HOAX. The only true believers still include the dunces in our political bodies and the dunces in our dumbed down education system who drummed the Al Gore Baloney Bombshell Film into our mush brained youth.

Kyoto is done and gone. The tax-paying producing people of the world are refusing to be taxed on their work to subsidize third world economic dissipation and ignorance. Pay attention to the new Arab Spring/Fall/Winter as Egypt and others devolve into Islamic Fascism and begging for food.

There is no growth without utilizing the world's fossile fuels. The abundance of ENERGY available to the United States right under our feet and also with nuclear power will continue to support America's growth and prosperity.

The one thing standing in America's Path to Prospertity today is the Socialist-Democrats in government including the Socialist-Marxist in the White House and our over-multitude of useless parasitic agencies of wealth destruction and obstruction.

[Bucky]

^mega dittos^

[fsdghfd]

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