OWS: Occupation or Infestation?
This morning the front page of the Washington Post asked of Occupy Wall Street:
Is the most far-reaching protest movement in the past decade solving problems or creating them?
Is this an occupation or an infestation?
Well, new data [PDF] from Public Policy Polling seems to come down on the infestation side:
As the Occupy Wall Street movement has continued and spread, its esteem in American voters' eyes has slipped. Last month, when PPP first asked about the movement nationally, voters were split, with 35% supporting the movement's goals and 36% opposing them. Now, that is 33-45, 11 points worse. Still 52% of Democrats support their goals, but opposition has risen from 16% to 24%. Meanwhile, both Republicans (from 13-59 to 11-71) and independents (from 39-34 to 34-42) have moved 13 or 14 points against O.W.S.
That now makes the movement less popular than its right-wing counterpart, the Tea Party. 42% support that movement's goals, and 45% oppose them. It was 39-45 in the previous survey. When asked of which movement they have a higher opinion, voters side with the Tea Party now, 43-37, a reverse of last month's 40-37 in favor of O.W.S. Democrats (from 62-9 for O.W.S. to 58-12) and Republicans (from 11-71 to 10-78) have each moved seven or eight points toward favoring the Tea Party, while independents have shifted 13 points, from 43-34 to 40-44.
OWS RIP.
Go here for Reason's extensive coverage of OWS.
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How did this become "the most far-reaching protest movement of the past decade..."? (per WaPo)
B.P. Excellent question.
The WaPo is part of the infestation problem.
^^^This.
OWS protests haven't even been a fraction of the Tea Party protests. But you wouldn't know that from reading the WAPO.
It's possible that OWS has put in more man-hours than the Tea Party protests. Of course most of that time has been spent shitting and fucking, but that's life.
Shitting and fucking are indeed far more fundamental and essential to life than whatever it is the Tea Partiers are up to.
No it isn't. It's not even close. The Tea Party protests encompassed pretty much every state in the country and had multiple rallies where THOUSANDS of people showed up. Is there even one OWS protest that was in the thousands?
Shit, there was even a tea party protest in my hometown, which has less than 4,000 people. I don't think there's been an OWS protest in a city smaller than 100,000.
oops - OWS is worldwide while the teaparty is just wide.
"Far-reaching" is a pleasant euphemism for "no concrete goals." Though even there I'd argue that the Jon Stewart rally was at least as "far-reaching."
The Tea Party movement has a lot of scattered goals, too, of course.
Seriously. This was a joke compared to the far larger, and longer lasting, Tea Party movement.
It's the Protest of the Century of the Week.
That's the slogan every hipster "protester" should adopt: "this is the protest of the century of the week! This is revoluuuuuushun, oh crap I've just jizzed in my pants."
Well it did spawn sister protests in several other countries, which the Tea Party did not, so there's a possible justification for the "far-reaching" descriptor.
No it didn't. Those protests had been going on for months. All they did was adopt the "occupy" meme, although, they really didn't even do that. Maybe a few people did, then the media ran with the theme...that OWS was "spreading". Which was bullshit.
There's been a lot of groping going on in the tents. Maybe that's what they meant.
Do I detect a hint of joy among the Reason writers at this development?
Why not? Crypto-marxists violating property rights are nothing a libertarian would defend.
I don't think most Democrats would defend it either, it's just that few people realize how marxist they were.
Lots of leading Dems already have, including Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.
In their defense, none of those people are noted for their grasp of reality, let alone basic awareness.
True, but those aren't most Democrats. Those are politicians trying to peddle their "we care for the poor" nonsense.
Well, that was before they shot at my fucking window!
Define "most Democrats"?
Politicians in progressive cities far and wide have declared their allegiance.
The people who generally vote for those asshats.
I don't think most Democrats would defend it either,
--------------------------------
of course, they do and they have from the WH through Dem leadership in Congress to a host of mayors and so forth. This is the modern-day Dem Party.
But that is not most Democrats.
Crypto? They are Marxists straight up and proud of it.
some are marxist, socialist, free-rangers (gambol babiee), trade unionists, apolitical vegans, feminists, anarchists, etc....
They're not really violating property rights.
Depends on what city. In Edmonton they were protesting on private property.
They SHOT my window! THAT doesn't qualify as property. Okay, not private, but fuck you still, assburger retard.
Well, new data [PDF] from Public Policy Polling seems to come down on the infestation side:
I'm gonna have to call shenannigans on any polling of support for their goals - who the fuck even knows what their goals were?
Wasn't it just moar free stuff?
PPP is a left-wing polling organization, fyi.
who even knows what their goals were?
Indeed, their "strategy" was to have no definable strategy; their tactics: evasion, obfuscation, ignorance.
Behold our future political class.
Pretty much--in about 10 years these same people will be running for state and national office.
Canadian perspective: Comments on CBC news article are usually pretty far left, and often downright retarded.
The vast majority of user comments attached to Occupy{Victoria,Vancouver,Calgary,Toronto} has really turned against the occupiers. If you're a left-leaning organisation that has lost the support of the CBC commentariat, you really fucked up somewhere along the line.
the most far-reaching protest movement in the past decade
OWS? Hmmm...I'm thinking Tea Party might be more "far reaching" within the last decade. Parties were and are being held across the country as well, and I think more-frequently (initially) and with consistently big crowds.
And the Tea Partiers actually influenced elections - for good or bad - take yer picks. OWS hasn't influenced anything that I can see. Nada. Zippo. Useless waste of breath and fecal matter.
Also, I'm not counting all the "Free Wesley Snipes" protests, of course. Those were HUGE, but a different thing entirely. So Tea Party gets my vote.
PS Also stipulating USA-centrism - gotta believe Euro-Trash protests and middle east movements were also more "far reaching" than the US' piddly little ripples.
OWS hasn't influenced anything that I can see. Nada. Zippo. Useless waste of breath and fecal matter.
Well, they were breaking windows--at least in Oakland. Perhaps that is how they planned to stimulate the economy?
lol
Well, they were breaking windows--at least in Oakland. Perhaps that is how they planned to stimulate the economy?
--------------------------
nope; that's the opposite of economic stimulus. While it benefits the glass maker/installer, it hurts the merchant who is forced to re-direct money that could have gone for expanding his business. Maybe they're ECON grads...
If you couldn't pick that out as a joke, you need some serious readjustment in your humor detectors.
I'm fairly certain that OWS will be influencing the 2012 elections.
How so? Do they actually support or oppose some candidate? Do they have candidates of their own? Do they have some political issue they are pushing? Because I have no idea what it is they support or oppose.
Hmmm...I'm thinking Tea Party might be more "far reaching" within the last decade.
Protests can't be right-wing, you fool. I thought everyone knew that.
I'm still learning. Please - give me time!
I'm sure the Post meant "the most far-reaching non-racist protest movement."
I also seem to remember some pretty large anti-war protests back when that other dick was president.
Well, given the fact that the "anti-war" protests stopped happening just as soon as Bush was out of office, despite the fact that we were still at war (and going to war with new countries, to boot), I think calling them "anti-war protests" is inaccurate. Rather, they should be called "anti-Bush" protests, as, in hindsight, that seems to have been the actual motivation for most of the protestors.
Well between the lice and the ringwurm infestation is more apt; although I guess the public defecation could shift it to a movement....
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! Grody!
Do the youngsters say "Grody" any more? No?
/teenage girl
*walks off mumbling to self about "whippersnappers"*
We know (because it would have been reported if it were otherwise) that the Tea Party protests were rape-free.
Yep. To the best of my knowledge, not one single person ever has ever gotten arrested for anything at a TEA Party protest gathering.
I'm thinking most criminals would avoid an organized group of RKBA advocates.
I do seem to remember a few arrests, but IIRC they happened when anti-tea party protestors committed assault against tea-party protestors.
God's light, these villains will make the word as odious as the word 'occupy;' which was an excellent good word before it was ill sorted
- Henry IV Part II, Act III Scene 4. (In past centuries "occupy", used as a transitive verb, had an additional meaning.)
Nice job lifting that from Volokh!
Please, I stole it from Samizdata.net
Wouldn't be surprised if they took it from Volokh. It's the internet after all.
They should have used a better looking chick on the bull statue.
MALE GAZE
Yeah, but the zombie horde emerging from the smoke of a burning Manhattan behind her is nice.
WTF is the point of that poster? Why is the ballet chick on top of the bull? Why are there zombie hoards? Why are they using Spinal Tap's old white smoke machine?
Seriously, could there be a better examplar of how stupid and confused these people are than their own poster?
Your right-wing mind just can't handle the nuance and ambiguity.
Your nuance and ambiguity plagued weakling mind just can't handle my right wing awesomeness.
I have to say if I say that poster and didn't know what the figures represented, I'd definitely want to join sides with the bull.
The poster confuses me. What *is* their "one demand"? To dance on public sculpture? To bring a tent? To mock the people who expect them to have only one demand? Someone please explain.
Their "one demand" should be to get that poor vegan on the statue a steak.
Free ballet tickets for the 99%?
Your right-wing mind just cant...
:sigh: my heart's not in this. never mind.
No, no. They have no freaking idea what their "one demand" is. Obviously.
That's why they are asking us.
Of course they do.
Nationalize the means of production.
I just wonder who the OWS'ers think they're kidding. The only people they are inconveniencing are ordinary working folk, the folk they claim to speak for but don't.
They're target is big game like convincing politicians to give them free shit. Fuck the little people.
OWS was essentially a three-month Bonnaroo, but without the bands or beer vendors. Which pretty much makes it worthless.
By the third day of Bonnaroo every year, the sanitary conditions go from bad to godawful. I'm a little surprised OWS hasn't resulted in far scarier conditions than lice and scabies. Like, say, bubonic plague.
I went to Bonaroo in 07 in the middle of one of the worst draughts in Tennessee history. I was there as a corporate perk for my wife and stayed in a hotel. But honestly, By Saturday it was dustier and dirtier than anything I had seen in Iraq. Ugh, what a hell whole. Some great music though.
I've been to several years of Bonnaroo, including that one. The dust was really bad that year--I ended up getting really sick because of it once I got home. But you don't even want to know what it's like at Bonnaroo when there's been a little bit of summer rain there, combined with the normal Tennessee humidity. Imagine a three-day music festival in the middle of the Ganges delta.
My wife and I always stay in a hotel, too, usually in Murfreesboro. The drive each day sucks, but having a real bed and a shower outweighs it.
You can put up with anything if you can have a shower and a bed at night. Take that away and it starts to suck real quick. I don't know how or why those kids in tents do it. Even getting laid would not make it worth it because who wants to have sex when you are that dirty.
I had a good time though. I thought The Police were fantastic. A perfect Circle, the headliner for Friday was possibly the worst band I have ever seen live. It was just comical. They were trying so hard to be all heavy and cool and still failing miserably. Spinal Tap would have been a better show. At least they would have had a sense of humor. Pete Yorn, Flaming Lips, and Widespread Panic were really good as well.
I thought Tool was the headliner that Friday, not A Perfect Circle. It was great to see the Police, though, and they were worth the trip, since my wife is a big fan.
I'm a big jazz fan, and the best time I ever had at Bonnaroo was one year (might have been that same one, actually) when Blue Note Records sponsored an air-conditioned, enclosed tent with three days of top-shelf jazz acts. They even had tables and waitress service. Sadly, they've never done that again, even though the tent was quite well-received by that portion of the jam band crowd that is more musically literate.
Wow.
It was A Perfect Circle, which is a spinoff band of Tool. Maybe I read wrong, but I really remember it being A Perfect Circle. Regardless they sucked. I have heard that some years the Preservation Hall Band has come in from New Orleans. If you ever have a chance to see them, do it. I really like Dixie Land Jazz and it is more or less impossible to find outside of New Orleans.
Hindsight says Tool. Which is surprising, they're usually amazing live.
http://bonnaroo.com/artists/2007.aspx
I stand corrected. And I am just old. I thought they sucked. The whole stage show just seemed so cheesey. They sounded good. I can't say they couldn't play. But the whole thing struck me as a metal cheese fest without any sense of irony. My God are they humorless.
My favorite Tool song is "Die Eier von Satan". It's quite amusing.
Tool is definitely not humorless, though I can see how you might see it that way. They are also the sort of band that will either sound exactly like the album when they play live, or not quite as good, so I haven't bothered to see them perform even though they are one of my favorite bands.
Maybe so Zeb. Since I wasn't familiar with their studio stuff, I just didn't get the joke live.
I don't know how or why those kids in tents do it.
Mostly, they don't. I seem to recall thermal imaging at night showing that the tents were almost all empty.
I hate to ask but have to -- who in the world was taking thermal imagery of mud-spattered hobbits?
My bad. The Zucotti Occutards actually toughed it out. Other cities, not so much.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....h-out.html
Leave them alone. Their antics do more damage to their amorphous goals than bolster them and cracking down on them only gives them a victim card to play.
Yeah, I am thinking it would've been better to let the occupation just dissolve away vaguely as the weather got worse instead of letting them proclaim the violence inherent in the system.
Have the "banksters" send out hot chocolate* and see if the freezing marxtards drink it.
*or the disgusting vegan equivalent
Steamed wheatgrass?
I'm thinking it's some sort of ball-sweat frapp
Only if they were free-range balls.
Have you seen that industrialized ball-sweating farm video? I cried at how those poor scrotums were being treated.
"Have you seen that industrialized ball-sweating farm video? I cried at how those poor scrotums were being treated."
Someone, please, stop me from asking...
Food, Inc.
Watch it. Change your life.
Chocolate is OK for vegans. It must be chocolate and ball-sweat.
there are animal products in hot chocolate?
I always thought the objection was unfair labor practices involving Oompa-Loompas
If it uses milk. Like decent hot chocolate should.
And I hear nonsense about "Fair Trade" cocoa.
That is true. Forgot about milk.
has anyone tried making with heavy cream? That sounds worthwhile.
It gets too rich. I use milk and add shots of Bailey's or Godiva liqueur. It's a hit with the wife.
I've substituted half and half for some of them milk. Good stuff.
That Godiva liqueur is awesomeness. I love me some Bailey's in coffee, can't say I've tried it in cocoa.
The fair trade thing is a separate issue from the vegan thing. Vegans don't have to give a fuck about how people are treated.
Milk?
I think letting OWS fade away was the original plan. Bloomberg is wrong on many things, but he's not an idiot.
But the public health threats and the damage to nearby businesses were becoming too big to ignore. The OWSers were also getting more brazen in acting beyond the park.
When OWS puts a rooky politician in the US Senate, they can be called far reaching.
Better - we put one in the White House
LIke, decorporatize your soul, man.
'...in a few days you're going to see what a Molotov cocktail can do to Macy's.'
...
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) ? The loss of their camp at Zuccotti Park doesn't seem to be slowing down the Occupy Wall Street movement as protesters are calling for "a national day of direct action" on Thursday.
Photos: Police Raid Zuccotti Park
According to their website, protesters are planning three major actions Thursday starting with a "shut down" of Wall Street.
It all starts with a rally in Liberty Square starting at 7 a.m. to "put an end to Wall Street's reign of terror."
Then, protesters will fan out to all five boroughs of the city in what's being called Occupy the Subway.
They plan on gathering at 16 subways stations around New York City to take their message to the trains.
link
This is gonna make them real popular with commuters.
I remember back in '88 when Gore went down to the subway to try to get primary votes.
He barely escaped with his life.
He barely escaped with his life.
Practice makes perfect. Give 'em another chance.
Hmmm. I think maybe we don't need to worry so much about them becoming some sort of heroes if they succeed in these efforts.
Thank holy fuck and all that is good that Thursday is my telework day.
I want live coverage of hippies blocking Brooklyn commuters on a Thursday morning. I'll call it "Operation Take a Beatdown".
Please show it. Please.
Major Strasser: Are you one of those people who cannot imagine the Germans in their beloved Paris?
Rick: It's not particularly my beloved Paris.
Heinz: Can you imagine us in London?
Rick: When you get there, ask me!
Captain Renault: Hmmh! Diplomatist!
Major Strasser: How about New York?
Rick: Well there are certain sections of New York, Major, that I wouldn't advise you to try to invade.
+1 for Casablanca.
"That now makes the movement less popular than its right-wing counterpart, the Tea Party. "
That statement attempts to equate an equivalancy that never existed.
The occupy rabble is in no way comparable to the Tea Party groups.
Yup. But it makes good copy. For dimwits.
To be fair, the TP didn't really have specific goals either. "Cut spending" is all well and good until you get to the thornier question of what to cut. The departments of commerce, education, and energy consume what, 5% of the deficit?
TPers don't want to cut defense and they don't want to cut SS or Medicare.
I'm a TP'er, and after evaluating the budget, and our current federal income, I'd cut at least a third out of defense, get rid of a bunch of Dept's, and cut the entirety of the social programs. Although to balance the budget, only the social programs would be necessary.
Sure things would be rough for a bit, but we'd adapt.
This Tea Partier is convinced half of the defense budget is lost to contractor fraud. Cutting the military in half would make us a stronger, not weaker country.
You're probably correct. I'm pretty convinced that we don't need full time ground troops anymore. If we have a group or country cross us, bomb the shit out of them, and go back home. No need for boots on the ground. Keep the guard and reserve, in case we really are attacked.
That policy worked super great in 1950. The North Koreans and Chinese were totally cowed since we had the bomb.
Yeah, I think Tea Partiers DO want to cut military spending. It's the establishment GOP that resists.
This has been my irritation about this from the beginning. Sure, I understand that some of the tea party attenders were significantly fringe, but almost entirely, the rally's and protests were clean and well within the limits of the law. They even acquired the proper permits, and cleaned up after themselves.
This (equivalent, if you listen to the news) group started out breaking laws and statutes. I guarantee they aren't cleaning up after themselves, and even with the generally sympathetic media, we've heard plenty about the atrocious behavior.
It's obnoxious.
What you didn't mentioned about that poll is that it was way overly skewed Democratic.
The truth is the occupiers are far more unpopular.
As the Occupy Wall Street movement has continued and spread, its esteem in American voters' eyes has slipped. Last month, when PPP first asked about the movement nationally, voters were split, with 35% supporting the movement's goals and 36% opposing them. Now, that is 33-45, 11 points worse.
Gee, what was it that I said in the Morning Links?
They were an amusing diversion for a while, like a goony MTV reality show, but now the public at large wants to move on to other things.
The worst thing is the Tea Parties had 45% approval ratings at this point in their evolution. It took at least a year of constant drubbing by the MSM to drive them down into the 30s.
The media's tried to protect OWS, OTOH. But you can't cover up all the rapes and violence and shit.
What is out one demand?
If I were the Great and Powerful OZ, I would guess...
A BRAIN?
I thought it was "a shower"...or maybe that's what I want them to have, I forget.
Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone magazine:
"The right-wing media wasted no time in cannon-blasting the movement with its usual idiotic clich?s, casting Occupy Wall Street as a bunch of dirty hippies who should get a job and stop chewing up Mike Bloomberg's police overtime budget with their urban sleepovers. Just like they did a half-century ago, when the debate over the Vietnam War somehow stopped being about why we were brutally murdering millions of innocent Indochinese civilians and instead became a referendum on bralessness and long hair and flower-child rhetoric, the depraved flacks of the right-wing media have breezily blown off a generation of fraud and corruption and market-perverting bailouts, making the whole debate about the protesters themselves ? their hygiene, their "envy" of the rich, their "hypocrisy."
The protesters, chirped Supreme Reichskank Ann Coulter, needed three things: "showers, jobs and a point." Her colleague Charles Krauthammer went so far as to label the protesters hypocrites for having iPhones. OWS, he said, is "Starbucks-sipping, Levi's-clad, iPhone-clutching protesters [denouncing] corporate America even as they weep for Steve Jobs, corporate titan, billionaire eight times over." Apparently, because Goldman and Citibank are corporations, no protester can ever consume a corporate product ? not jeans, not cellphones and definitely not coffee ? if he also wants to complain about tax money going to pay off some billionaire banker's bets against his own crappy mortgages."
"Supreme Reichskank" Anne Coulter is awesome. I LOLed.
I wonder what Taibbi had to say about the OWSers who opened a bank account at Wells Fargo.
the depraved flacks of the right-wing media have breezily blown off a generation of fraud and corruption and market-perverting bailouts, making the whole debate about the protesters themselves ? their hygiene, their "envy" of the rich, their "hypocrisy."
Yeah, Matt, because no one should ever examine the motivations of a bunch of Phaggot Striver Poors who thought college was their Golden Ticket To Eternal Bliss, and have been steeped in a lifetime's worth of entitlement philosophy.
Say what you want about their motivations, but at least they have the balls and courage of their convictions to mix it up with the Supreme Reichskank's stormtroopers.
Unlike the old fatass Teabaggers who are just annoying at town hall events.
Aren't libertarians supposed to be against the police state? Or are you just all a bunch of brown-nosers who get off punching hippies?
"Drum circle! First beer ever! WOOT!"
There is no contradiction in hating both authoritarian government and hippies. Not that I hate hippies. I just think that they are incredibly naive about politics and should stick to what they are good at. Like drum circles and growing good weed.
Say what you want about their motivations, but at least they have the balls and courage of their convictions to mix it up with the Supreme Reichskank's stormtroopers.
Unlike the "old fatass Teabaggers," the Phaggot Striver Poors can't get hired with their bullshit degrees in Oppressed Grievance Studies. Where the hell else are they going to go?
Aren't libertarians supposed to be against the police state?
Hey man i think you should be able to protest all you want.....but let me be clear, it is your left wing mayors and your left wing unionized police state that is putting down your left wing movement. Remove the left wingers and elect libertarians. We will put an end to the police state and then you guys can come back and bitch and moan about your student loans in public streets until you are blue in the face.
The frustration on our part is not with the police. They are left wing thugs acting like left wing thugs...no surprise there. What is frustrating is watching you idiots completely unaware of who is kicking you out and who is covering you with pepper spray.
It is your own party and own ideology that is doing it. Not much a libertarian can do but either laugh or cry at the complete stupidity of it all.
It is your own goddamn big government that is beating you up and all you do is protest for even bigger government with more power to beat even more people up.
The chances of a libertarian standing next to you in support of you is zero.
I hate what the government is doing to you....but go fuck yourself if you think i will stand next to a guy holding a sign that says tax the rich to pay for more government.
What was this douche's "take" on it when Palin/Tea Party was blamed for the attack on sainted congresswoman Giffords?
Matt Taibbi is a hack.
It's not that they can't consume a corporate product, it's the fact that hipsters are well known and the most brand-conscious people around.
Leftards jumped on the OWS bandwagon from the get go. They were crowing about it being more popular than the Tea Party. I'm sure they are ignoring it now.
its sad how little the braintrust on this article understand about the OWS movement. Stay in your bubble, America has woken, ans we dont give a fuck if the dumbest of the dumb make fun of it.
"Blasphemers! To the rape tents with them! NOW -- !!!"
This just strikes me as funny. Sure, I guess maybe the "we are teh 99%" shit has gained some traction with some significant part of the American public. But when you presume to speak for all of a very large and diverse nation, you are a joke and cannot be takes seriously.
"Dumbest of the dumb" was cute, though.
its sad how little the braintrust on this article understand about the OWS movement. Stay in your bubble, America has woken, ans we dont give a fuck if the dumbest of the dumb make fun of it.
Someone who can't exercise proper grammar has a lot of cheek calling his critics "the dumbest of the dumb."
Please go take a shower, goon sir.
America has woken, ans we dont give a fuck if the dumbest of the dumb make fun of it.
It hurts doesn't it? To have leviathan take a giant shit on your forehead.
I cannot say i feel your pain...but i am fairly certain that the pain i feel when the government completely ignores my rights is very similar to what you are feeling right now as government dismantles your entire movement.
Well now you know how a libertarian feels....now after the complete failure of OWS perhaps it is a time to reevaluate your ideology.
OWS RIP.
I almost feel sorry for the left wing. The whole point of a political movement is to establish a way to mobilize a campaign. Everything about OWS is the exact opposite of that.
I don't know if it is dead as Ron implys...in fact i think it will linger for at least a decade and remain part of our cultural lexicon for at least as long as i live. The left wing media will insure that it does stay....but its political effects, as in who and who does not get elected, will be null.
I know exactly what to do with these hippy mofo's. Where's my heli at damn it!
thanks