River-Swimming Without Life Vest Now Illegal Near Seattle

The latest sign that my entire childhood could be retroactively criminalized:

People who hope to beat the summer heat by swimming, floating or boating on rivers in King County must wear a life vest or face an $86 fine.

A divided County Council on Monday passed a personal flotation device ordinance by a five to four vote. Opponents said it was an intrusive move by "big government."

"This Council sometimes thinks it's everybody's mom," said Councilwoman Kathy Lambert, who voted "no." […]

Councilwoman Julia Patterson, a "yes" vote, said the same arguements […] made agains the life vest ordinance were also made against laws requiring child safety seats in automobiles and banning smoking in public places.

"We are improving the health for everyone because of these laws that we pass," she said.

Link via the Twitter feed of Mary Katharine Ham.

Comments

[Lord Humungus]

"We are improving the health for everyone because of these laws that we pass," she said.

Are bans against dancing and rock n' roll far behind (ala the movie Footloose)?

[Irresponsible Hater]

"far behind"? No.

Already here, yes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

[Almanian]

How can Natural FUCKING Selection work if stupid City/County Councils keep passing regulations like this?

Then more people live and have to be covered under Obamacare, thus driving up the cost of healthcare.

WAY TO GO, KING COUNTY!

[Dinosaurs]

If only we had worn lifejackets and helmets.

[gators,turtles, lizards, birds]

we dinosaurs did !

[Brett L]

They don't believe in natural selection, just evolution.

[Tonio]

Which is a brilliant and sad-but-true summation of liberalism.

[MaestroBud]

If this series of events reflected natural selection, the one's who voted in favor of this measure would have never made it to serve in the first place... Moreover, if safety/security serves as the rationale, then the one's who voted "yes" arguably deserve neither security nor liberty.

[Cyto]

same arguements [...] were also made against laws requiring child safety seats in automobiles and banning smoking in public places.

And more people die in their own bathrooms every month than recreational river swimming yearly - maybe ever. So let's get hopping on that "ban bathtubs that hold over 2 inches of water" ordinance, and "ban hard tile in bathrooms" ordinance and "ban slippery surfaces" ordinance. Come on King County! People are dieing out there!

[Name Withheld]

I feel your pain, but shouldn't there be a Godwin for bathtub dangers?

[Almanian]

May you be struck by lightning

[RealJim]

The message in that quote is "adults=children", and the government is the only true adult.

[sarcasmic]

When the government outlaws swimming without a vest, only outlaws will swim without a vest.

[WTF]

Holy shit, what a bunch of pussies.

[Almanian]

if I rearrange the letters of your handle, we get "FTW" - bravo!

[Aelhues]

"We are improving the health for everyone because of these laws that we pass," she said.

That is exactly the problem with things like seatbelt, helmet, and other such personal safety laws. The bastards don't know when to quit.

Allowing that maybe government should be in the business of protecting us from ourselves, one should still consider whether it is possible for a reasonable person to do something, like swimming in a river, safely, without government protection. If so, they should be allowed to do so. If government can't make reasonable distinctions in gray areas, they should not have the power to do so at all.

[OO]

i tie-back my lawnmower safety grip. the horrors...

[MaestroBud]

Those who elected these paternalists have only themselves to blame (or credit).

[Nanny S Tate]

one should still consider whether it is possible for a reasonable person to do something, like swimming in a river, safely, without government protection. If so, they should be allowed to do so.

No, no, NO!! One should consider whether it is possible for an unreasonable person to do something, like swimming in a river, unsafely, without government protection. If so, people in general should not be allowed to do so.

[JD]

"We are improving the health for everyone because of these laws that we pass," she said.

Because we all know that when we don't wear a lifevest we are putting everyone around us in danger of sceond-hand drowning.

[sarcasmic]

BTW Reason, you're late. Drudge was linked to this story two days ago.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...must wear a life vest or face an $86 fine.

King County needs money.

[Neu Mejican]

True dat. Really.

[Neu Mejican]

Just for context:

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecr.....sheet.html

When a location was known, 65% of drownings among those 15 years and older occurred in natural water settings

But I don't think that means this law makes sense. The level of danger is so variable by location you'll end up with some pretty silly prosecutions.

[John Thacker]

But that's a pretty irrelevant stat. It's saying that a fewer percentage of the drownings occur in pools-- where people don't use life jackets, of course, but there are more likely to be lifeguards-- but doesn't really report anything like percentage of use.

Certainly the ocean is dangerous because of rip currents and the like, but that doesn't justify this any more than it justifies various tasty food bans.

[Heather the Safety Dog]

TASTY FOOD BANS???!!!!!!!!!11!1

[Bar Student]

If you don't know how to swim, don't get in the water. How simple is that?

[TomB]

"65% of drownings among those 15 years and older occurred in natural water settings"

hmmmm, so considering the volume of the world's water is found in natural water settings probably over 99.99999% of the time, 65% isn't so bad...

[Pro Libertate]

Adults? Really? I swim in the fucking ocean without a life vest. I think I can manage streams and lakes.

[Statist]

No you can't.

[Ska]

The first thing I thought was NY will not be out-stated and ban swimming off of Long Island without a life vest or water wings. Maybe people 65 years old or older, and 5 years old or younger, shouldn't be allowed into the ocean at all. For our own good.

[Statist's Sidekick]

And your arrogant attitude proves you can't.

[Pro Libertate]

It's true. I have been unmutual.

[Tim]

How do the fish manage without safety equipment and little neon vests?

[ola]

Supporters of this law: life vest renters, life vest sellers, life vest manufacturers, defense attorneys, cops, prosecuting attorneys, ticket writers, county treasurer, bail bondsman, life vest required sign installers......

Opponents of this law: the normal jerk on the street.

Well there you have it. New fine wins.

[Mainer]

"The latest sign that my entire childhood could be retroactively criminalized"

I'm 54 years old, and I can't imagine what it must be like for kids growing up today. I guess I'm "lucky" I don't have kids of my own, or I'd be fighting this kind of shit all the time. But the real question that I ponder is will the kids growing up today be so conditioned that they'll be obedient little boot lickers, or will they swing the pendulum strongly the other way, and be the generation that saves this country. I don't know.

[Name Withheld]

The first one.

[Pablo]

Im 44 and regularly thank God that I could actually have fun and get into mischief when I was a kid. I too cannot imagine what its like these days. This reminds me of the laws requiring bike riders to wear helmets. When I was a kid anyone who wore one of those would get laughed out of the neighborhood.

[Name Withheld]

anyone who wore one of those would get laughed out of the neighborhood

We just assumed they were retarded. Still do.

[Aelhues]

My concern is that with so much being fined or criminalized that a large portion of the country will accept breaking the law as an everyday occurrence. To some degree it already is, but as we add more and more stupid laws against everyday, slightly risky activities, disrespect for the law increases. While some people could stand to develop less respect for the law, overall, I think that is a negative for our society.

[Old Soldier]

I break laws everywhere I go. I speed, I let me dog off-leash in the park, I stop at the gas station on the way to the rifle range - with a rifle in my car, I walk over to my neighbor's house with an open beer, I ride my bike on the sidewalk, etc...

My kids know right from wrong. Like me, they also know to keep an eye out for the cops. If you can't avoid them, act normal and pretend not to notice them when they show up.

[In Time of War]

And those of us who own aggressive dogs and keep them on a leash really appreciate that, as your uncontrolled animal fights ours while you stand across the park pathetically whining for "fluffy" to come back.
"And usually my dog obeys so well..." Yeah, how many times have I heard that shit.

[Old Soldier]

I mean the state and national parks where I hike up mountains - not some stupid city park. I have a mastiff and don't want to have to apologize for anyone's dead beagle.

[In Time of War]

Sorry, I'm just touchy about the "on-leash" park thing. When I specifically go to an on-leash park and then get mobbed by other people's loose dogs, it irks me. And then they act like I'm the bastard because I don't want their dogs jumping on me or fighting with my dog.
Anyway, yeah, in the wild 'n stuff, let 'em run. Just watch out for bears >:)

[Old Soldier]

I hear ya - the female mastiff I have now is pretty harmless. The last one (a male bullmastiff) did not take any shit from other males - as a few owners found out.

[sarcasmic]

The drug war has done more to cause lost respect for the law than anything else.
Well, that and the use of traffic laws for the purpose of harassment and revenue.

[Rich]

Along these lines, my (admittedly subjective) observations have more drivers phoning and texting than before the bans were enacted.

[Old Soldier]

A why does everyone in Jersey who owns a Lexus drive with a smart-phone against their ear? Is the 30 seconds required to sync the bluetooth more than they can spare?

[SIGN]

-SWIM AT YOUR OWN RISK-

-IF YOU DIE OR ARE INJURED, THE COUNTY WILL NOT PAY YOUR EXPENSES-

-SWIMMING HERE CONFIRMS YOUR LEGAL ACCEPTANCE OF THESE TERMS-

[FINE PRINT]

ASSUMING YOU CAN READ THIS SIGN.

[Finer Print]

IF you can't read the sign, too bad.

[Tim]

It should also be illegal to put your head under and inhale.

[Levi Johnston]

Don't I know it!

[JW]

Note to self: Buy land in Montana for heirs. Also, guns and ammo.

[Mainstream Media]

Extremist Alert!

[Jeff Buckley's Ghost]

So where do I send my $86?

[Tim]

The floaties will just make it harder to get away from Steve Smith.

[SugarFree]

Steve doesn't eat where he shits.

[Tim]

There's fines for that also.

[SugarFree]

I'd hate to be the doomed LEO who tried to give Steve a citation. Would he try and ticket himself after Steve got done shitting him out in the river?

[Ska]

A cop giving a ticket to a cop. Hardy-har-har.

[Old Soldier]

Wide Reciever for the Panthers? Does he chase swimmers in the off-season?

[Dagny T.]

You can't exactly swim in a life jacket now can you, King County fucktards?

I believe this will get enforced, too. My friends and I were threatened with tickets for riding in the back of a pickup on a short drive up a park road after tubing down a river. They were super vigilant about people's beer too. Way to ruin summer, jerks.

[SugarFree]

It's a feminist plot to cover up boobs.

[Dagny T.]

And the bulky life jacket covers up your cute swimsuit, so you may as well wear a shapeless sack. Then everyone will be equal in safety and joylessness.

[SugarFree]

Now you are catching on.

[Brett L]

Ok, NOW I'm pissed. I hadn't thought about that part. This must not pass. Bad enough the ski-boat chicks have to cover up. But on the beach?

[Robert]

What if you want to dive under water?

[EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy]

This is not an approved activity, comrade.

[Mongol horde]

Not to give them any ideas, but why not require wearing vests in pools as well.

Not sure how large king co. is but i would just drive to the next one and spent my beer money there.

[Episiarch]

King County has very little fun places to swim...wait, does this fucking apply to Lake Washington?!?

[jasno]

Hey, fuck you. I grew up rafting down the White river and swimming in the various duck-shit-filled ponds known as lakes. It's not Cancun, but it's still a blast once you get used to your balls doing a full retraction from the temperature.

I can't imagine how people are going to jump off cliffs in green river gorge wearing a fucking lifejacket.

[rather]

The latest sign that my entire childhood could be retroactively criminalized

Well, if you had cell phone pics instead of National Geographic magazines, masturbation would have been illegal too

[np]

"I think it's the beginning of the era of life jackets in King County," he said.
lol

[bosty]

"We are improving the health for everyone because of these laws that we pass," she said.

Which is why true believers frighten me more than corrupt assholes, who can at least be reasoned with. This twit really thinks she's saving the world.

It's all part of the reason I root for Simon Phoenix whenever Demolition Man is on.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I know some old folks who used to take rifles with them on the bus to school so they could put them in their lockers and hunt/target shoot after classes. The world didn't end.

[WTF]

Hell, when I was in high school, we used to bring our shotguns with us to school, in New Jersey so we could go hunting right after school, and nobody gave a shit. Damn, things sure have changed for the worse.

[Brett L]

By the time I was in high school, you couldn't bring them on the bus or into the school, but you could still go quail or deer hunting before school and leave your rifle or shotgun in the car in plain view of everyone.

[Fart who is old]

Now cartoons of guns are prohibited in schools.

[Principal]

"Mrs. Fart, it pains me to inform you that your son has be suspended for mentioning the existence of gun cartoons."

[Mainer]

Our fifth grade teacher taught us the gun safety course as part of our normal curriculum. I still have the little wallet card for taking that course.

[Heroic Mulatto]

According to the council's press release, this ordinance expires in October, which makes it even more aggravating

[Somalian Road Corporation]

The people talking about getting hassled for alcohol brought something to mind I hadn't thought about for a while. A few years ago I was walking from my apartment to a friend's party a few hundred feet away in the same gated complex . I was accompanied by a black chick I was having a fling with and we both had half-full beers in our hands.

Unfortunately, we happened to run into a trio of Tempe, AZ's finest, who stopped us and demanded that we pour out our beers.

SRC: "Wait, what? We're both of legal age and this is private property."

Officer Cockbag: "Doesn't matter. You can't have an open container."

SRC: "Seriously? I thought that was just for vehicles and the street. Can I please finish it? I'm just walking from my apartment to a friend's place, we both live here."

OC: "No, it's not. You're going to have to empty them."

We grudgingly comply with these heavily armed idiots and I check out the actual law later:

http://www.azleg.gov/ars/4/00244.htm

20. For a person to consume spirituous liquor in a public place, thoroughfare or gathering. The license of a licensee permitting a violation of this paragraph on the premises shall be subject to revocation. This paragraph does not apply to the sale of spirituous liquors on the premises of and by an on-sale retailer. This paragraph also does not apply to a person consuming beer from a broken package in a public recreation area or on private property with permission of the owner or lessor or on the walkways surrounding such private property or to a person consuming beer or wine from a broken package in a public recreation area as part of a special event or festival that is conducted under a license secured pursuant to section 4-203.02 or 4-203.03.

It's so charming that ignorance of the law is only an excuse if you are professionally tasked with enforcing it. Of course, assuming ignorance here might be charitable on my part.

[sarcasmic]

I once had a cop say "Because I say so." in response to my saying "What do you mean? I'm not breaking the law."

This db figured he could just make shit up and order people around because he had a club and a gun and knew that if the argument went to court the judge would side with him.

He was right of course.

[Troy]

Yes, you the great unwashed have to know all the laws, regulations, ordinances, and rules perfectly. Pigs don't. Judges dont'...that's why they have appeals courts, so if superior court judges get it wrong.

[P Brooks]

the same arguements [...] made agains the life vest ordinance were also made against laws requiring child safety seats in automobiles and banning smoking in public places.

"We ignored them then, and we are ignoring them now. And, down the road, when we outlaw scissors and knitting needles, we will continue to ignore them. SHUT UP! WE KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU."

[P Brooks]

They should require everyone in King County to wear a life vest 24 hours a day; just to be safe.

[Brandon]

And helmets, and safety goggles. But only from "approved" manufacturers.

[Resto Druid FTW]

Wow, this is sad. I'm glad I live in Snohomish county.

[sven]

Makes me want to move back there.

[Troy]

They should simply outlaw large bodies of water.

[P Brooks]

They should simply outlaw large bodies of water.

They're just giant yucky toilets.

[David Shaff]

Not all are. I mean, anymore.

[dunkel]

Didn't some morons in Oregon just drain an entire reservoir because a dude pissed in it? They're one step ahead of us ...again!

[dunkel]

Damn you Shaff and your nimble fingers. you are a grade-a fuckstain, but a rapid typist.

[jasno]

Wow... Here's the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13874089

[Zuo]

I got ticketed for "jumping off the rocks" into the water before. All these things do is make the victim of the bullshit rule despise government and their petty tyranny. Win for Team Us, long term, I reckon.

[Joshua Corning]

King County a few years ago outlawed clearing brush on three acres of every 5 acres you own.

A bunch of rural land owners had a real live tractor pull in down town Seattle in protest.

Also i wonder if this law outlaws swimming in Lake Washington and Lake Union without a life vest..lake Union is in Seattle and lake Washington is at least partially in Seattle city limits.

I don't mention Green lake cuz only and idiot would swim in Green lake.

[Brandon]

I sleep better at night knowing that Julia Patterson and everyone like her will die someday.

[Strawman Harry]

I can see a law being passed that anyone renting boats need to supply life vests. But, for private boat owners and swimmers?

[Al Wayswright]

Hey Julia Patterson, how dumb are you?

There is no such thing as collective health. Health arises within any individual and from internal state of biochemical action.

Health has nothing to do with safety.

"We are improving the health for everyone because of these laws that we pass as you say Julia Patterson is an expression of idiocy.

All that could happen is the reduced chance of drowning for some individuals, none of which has anything to do with health.

Drowning isn't a contagious disease capable of fueling an epidemic.

[Julia Patterson]

U ignerant red neck, what if the ppl dies, and then the corpsman polluted teh watter suppleys??? that is y we need to protetc are children from ppl like u!

[CE]

"We are improving the health for everyone because of these laws that we pass," she said.

And if safety were the only value to maximize, these laws would make sense. A few people drown in rivers every year. Tens of thousands die in car crashes -- why not make it illegal for cars to go over 20 miles per hour? Thousands are murdered every year. Why not make murder illegal?

[Mad Scientist]

I'd like to imagine that laws like this just encourage the next generation of libertarians, but I don't think it's the case. My mom tells me I had problems with authority from when I was a wee brat and would never do anything unless the "why" could be explained to me. So it's no surprise I get aggravated with government busybodies. But most of the people I know don't have the same reactions we'd like to imagine when shit like this happens. For example, bicycle helmet laws are stupid, but how often do you see kids breaking them? Most people knuckle under and follow the rules, no matter how asinine they are, and even tell themselves that it's for their own good.

I'd like to see a study done, but my guess is incidents like this make more statists than libertarians.