Reason Morning Links: Pizza, Drugs, and Reason (not Reason) as a Weapon

Leno or Conan, Pepsi or Coke, Spicy or Mild, Deep Dish or Thin Crust: Dumb "this or that" questions distract in last night's Republican primary debate, where the prospective candidates were pretty nice to each other.

New York Times: "Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth." 

Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R-Kan.) says farm subsidies might actually shrink: "If you're a farmer like me, you're going to expect less. Something's going to go away. The direct payments are going to go away."

The FDA helps cause a record number of drug shortages.

And the latest from Reason.tv: Free or Equal?: Johan Norberg Updates Milton & Rose Friedman's Free to Choose.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Leno or Conan, Pepsi or Coke, Spicy or Mild, Deep Dish or Thin Crust: Dumb "this or that" questions distract in last night's Republican primary debate, where the prospective candidates were pretty nice to each other.

Yeah. What ever happened to questions like, "If Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered...?"

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

How about "Which Golden Girl are you?"

[Almanian]

^^thie!^^

[OO]

Africa
Libya rebels use discards to make own weapons
With a shortage of arms, fighters have been creating weapons from discards and scraps.
Last Modified: 14 Jun 2011 12:13
http://english.aljazeera.net/v.....23416.html

[John]

The Libyan rebels have a total Road Warrior vibe going. It is actually pretty cool.

[T]

While I applaud their ingenuity, I'm still thinking (ceteris paribus) the guys with more robust equipment are going to carry the field.

[?]

Go, Johnny!

[Mike M.]

What an awesome Stanley Cup finals this is. But it just blows my mind that Luongo can be so amazing at home and so brutally awful on the road in such a short time span.

[Brandon]

He's getting more from Bettman to make the series go 7 than he would make from just playing in his lifetime. The NHL has to have some leverage to get back on network tv full time, all due respect to Vs.

[Sy]

Agreeed. Original six vs. Canadian hockey = big bucks for the networks and NHL. Methinks some suspicious things goings ons.

[OO]

bachman directly contradicted herself saying she wouldnt interfer w state law on gay marrage then saying she supports a federal marrage amendment defining man & woman. >socials are not conservatives

[Bee Tagger]

Yes, that was bizarre. She actually had a very coherent and consistent answer locked down until she blurted, out-of-turn, her support for the amendment.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

She's saying that she'd respect the 10th ammendment, despite her personal feelings. But she'd be philosophically behind a amendment saying that life begins at conception,and then she'd probably enforce the crap out that amendment.

Nothing contradictory here.

[Britt]

Yeah, amending the Constitution is the nuclear bomb of American politics. You can amend it to say anything you want and once you get it through the ratification process it becomes binding federal law.

I have a lot of respect for Republicans calling for constitutional amendments. That's the way big changes are supposed to be made. I wish the Democrats would stand up and call for inserting abortion rights into the actual text, instead of pretending that it's already there because of the emanations of the penumbra.

[Cunctator]

---"I wish the Democrats would stand up and call for inserting abortion rights into the actual text, instead of pretending that it's already there because of the emanations of the penumbra."---

Another case of "where do you find such-and such right in the Constitution". I'm always amazed when I hear people who think the Constitution grants us rights.

[MNG]

I read the candidates all criticized regulation as government meddling and job killing, were they asked about how many GOP legislatures have moved to increase regulations on abortion clinics around the country, regulations that have been shown to shut down many of the clinics?

I'm betting no.

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

So you admit regulation is a weapon against the politically unpopular, despite what the regulators say about having only your best interests at heart?

[John]

It is a common MNG dodge Johnny. If you don't object to something in every circumstance, you can't object to it in any circumstances. He does the same thing with spending. If there is anything you think the government should spend money on, you, in MNG world, forfeit your right to object to any government spending whatsoever.

This is just playing that same game with regulations. If you support the regulation of anything, you forfeit the right to object to any regulation of anything else.

[MNG]

It's not hypocritical for the GOP to wail about regulation and then be silent when the first thing newly GOP legislatures do is regulate an industry out of existence?

[MNG]

I mean, talk about dodging, here we are three posts later since I asked if you were for it or not and you still have no comment.

Maybe like Sherrod or Hitler as a leftist you are for it, then against it, then for it, then against it, etc.

[Wind Rider]

Must of struck a nerve for ya to Godwin out THAT quickly MNG.

Typically piss poor and lame.

[Almanian]

Yep - hit a BIG nerver, evidently

[MNG]

Do you not realize I'm referring to John's discussion of Hitler as a leftist/not a leftist just the other day? That's hardly me Godwinning.

Dude, maybe chat boards and their lingo are above your head. Try CB.

[John]

There is noting hypocritical about that at all. If you think that industry is in the business killing innocent people. The GOP also has no problem with the state regulating the murder for hire industry out of business and the "I will burn down your house so you can collect the insurance money" business.

That is the whole debate. What should the government regulate and what shouldn't it? If you have a problem with the abortion regulations, then make your case why they are bad. Maybe they are. But the mere fact that you support regulations in once instance, doesn't obligate you to support regulation in every instance.

[MNG]

The thing is, everybody thinks regulations are for something they think is important.

[John]

Sure they do. And that is why you have a debate about the merits of each proposed regulation. And that is why your point that the "GOP supports regulation here but not there" is stupid and irrelevant.

[MNG]

Not when the GOP makes blanket statements about regulation being bad, no.

[John]

This just in, politicians imprecise in their language. Democrats make general statements about regulation being good but find some regulations to be horrible. Big deal.

[MNG]

Democrats make blanket statements about regulations being good like GOPers make blanket statements about them being bad?

Linkey?

[John]

Yes MNG. Democrats always speak with perfect precision. Jesus Christ, what the hell is the matter with you?

[MNG]

No linky, another careless assertion, gotcha.

[John]

See RC below. And everyone on here is laughing at you.

[R C Dean]

Democrats make general statements about regulation being good but find some regulations to be horrible, although they never seem to get around to repealing any.

[MNG]

John says regulate the murder for hire industry as if they mandate the length of the barrel of the gun used for assasinations.

[Lord Googoo]

LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA!

[MNG]

Should I point out that while incifing someone is a step into pussitude, incifing someone and then constantly following them and responding to them is the sign of a very, very troubled mind?

[rather]

No shit

[Almanian]

Jesus Christ, what the hell is the matter with you?

Ahem - John. This IS Mung. He's in perfect working order. This is what Mung DOES.

[heller]

If you're responding to them, you aren't incifing them.

[Lord Googoo]

I use crome and have the setting where I see the poster's name and time, but not what they wrote. So I see MNG|6.14.11 @ 9:55AM|# and start singing LA!

[Fluffy]

Depending on what your reasoning for supporting the regulation is, you may very well do just that.

Unless you want to be Joe from Lowell and claim that every political decision is completely and utterly itself and exists in a vacuum, and you don't have to have any comprehensible or consistent reasons for distinguishing between what you can regulate and what you can't.

[John]

I don't see how it is hypocritical to say "there are some things I don't want regulated and other things I do want regulated". Otherwise, the the only choices are totalitarianism or anarchy.

No one but an anarchist believes the government has no right to prohibit or regulate anything. The question is what should it and should it not. The whole hypocrisy argument is just a form of question begging.

[MNG]

"I don't see how it is hypocritical to say "there are some things I don't want regulated and other things I do want regulated".

With common sense exceptions...

[Fluffy]

The question is what should it and should it not.

Right, but we have to look at the method you use to answer that question.

If you use an emotivist method of answering that question ("I want to regulate fois gras because of my feelings about poor, poor birdies") then you validate each and every instance where someone else uses their own emotions to answer that question ("I want to seize wealth and redistribute it because of my feelings about the poor, poor childrunz").

If you have some non-emotional reason that draws a distinction between one category of activity you want regulated and one you don't, we can then talk about that reason.

But if you're going to throw up your hands and say, "Hey, I just want some things regulated and other things not regulated!" that's not really an argument. Because then every last person on the left gets to say that, too, and there are no criteria available to us to say that they're wrong and you're right.

[MNG]

It's simple, if you represent a nuanced view on regulation then talk that way. If you are going to go around making blanket statements about regulation being bad then don't turn around and suddenly support it in various cases. The libertarian that damns regulation generally is being principled, the conservative that does so and then turns around and regulates the hell out of this and that thing they don't like is being a hypocrite.

[John]

"But if you're going to throw up your hands and say, "Hey, I just want some things regulated and other things not regulated!" that's not really an argument."

Sure. But that wasn't my point. If you want to have a substantive debate over whether abortion regulations are a good idea, I am happy to have that. But when we do have that debate, the fact that I generally oppose regulations of other industries is irrelevant unless you can show how the abortion industry is not any different than the car industry. My argument is that it, because it takes innocent lives, is completely different than the car industry. You may disagree. And that is the debate not who is the most hypocritical, whatever that means.

[MNG]

"My argument is that it, because it takes innocent lives, is completely different than the car industry."

People that urge regulation for the car industry do so because they think innocent lives are at stake. Fail.

[John]

MNG you are either too dishonest or too stupid to engage in the argument. You really do have a hard time seeing anything beyond 3rd grade logic. And I am tired of explaining things to you.

Sure some people think regulating the car industry involves saving lives. And that is why they support the regulation. Others, like me don't. That is the whole debate you fucking moron.

[MNG]

So I was correct at the beginning?

MNG|6.14.11 @ 9:53AM|#
The thing is, everybody thinks regulations are for something they think is important.

[John]

I know. Those damned abortion regulations are what is killing this economy.

There is an old saying "consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds". It is old and true for a reason. And the reason for that is that the differences between situations are often a little more subtle than they appear.

You really are good for a laugh sometimes

[MNG]

So are you for or against these increased regulations? Interesting that the first thing many GOP legislatures did this year was move on increasing these regs.

[GNM]

So are you for or against the reduction on regulations? Interesting that the first thing many DNC legislatures did this year was move on decreasing these regs.

[MNG]

"Interesting that the first thing many DNC legislatures did this year was move on decreasing these regs."

Not so interesting since untrue.

[Wind Rider]

What a fucking retard. This is the FIRST thing that was done? THE very first order of business when they convened?

You're just feeding your inner pompous asshole tendencies with this kind of bullshit kulture warz based pseudo-logical gotcha crap.

The subject of abortion in this country will rage eternal, as long as one half of the nation thinks it's ok to force the other half to turn over money that will be used for what the first half is deeply convinced is the murder of children (and no, a 'logical' argument will NOT change their minds, as much as it may distress you, it simply is what it is, so grow the fuck up and give it a rest)

[MNG]

It was one of the first things they moved on, do you want a cite?

[Wind Rider]

Ah, the weasel squirms under the microscope!

So which nit was it, Mr. Picker? Was it THE first thing, or one of the first things?

Come back to play mudpies when you get your shit in one sack.

[MNG]

Captian Pedant gets offered a link but changes the subject and calls me a dodger, and quibbles over "first" and "one of the first" and calls me a nit-picker.

Wow.

[Fluffy]

The subject of abortion in this country will rage eternal, as long as one half of the nation thinks it's ok to force the other half to turn over money that will be used for what the first half is deeply convinced is the murder of children

No tax money is used for abortion in the United States.

[John]

Only if you consider money not to be fungible. We give tons of money to planned parenthood who do tons of abortions. Sure, they may not use the money to actually pay the abortionist. But they use it for other things and that frees up the money to pay the abortionist.

If I start John's foundation for the planting of trees and killing of Muslims. And you give me a grant on the condition that it only be used to plant trees and that donation allows me to have more of my own money or other donated money to kill Muslims, it is pretty hard to argue you are somehow not subsidizing the Muslim killing end of the business.

[Fluffy]

The whole "money is fungible" thing might be true if we were talking about grants.

But we aren't. We're talking about fee-for-service transactions.

If I go down and buy a coffee at my local Dunkin' Donuts, I am not sponsoring the franchisee's kiddie porn habit. Arguing that I am in fact doing so because "money is fungible" would be pretty dopey and show a fundamental misunderstanding of where the whole "money is fungible" argument comes from in the first place.

[John]

In a way you are sponsoring the francee's kiddy porn habit. If you knew the guy that owned the store was raping and filming five year olds in the back and was using the profits from the doughnut business to support it, do you still think it is okay to buy your doughnuts from there and not the Kispy Kreme across the street? I don't.

[heller]

Of course not, Krispy Kreme should always be chosen over Dunkin Donuts.

[Fluffy]

There is a difference between choosing to exercise moral sanction by shunning and boycotting, and saying that I personally am financing what he's doing.

When I exchange money-for-coffee, by agreeing to the price we are mutually defining two those values. The money is completely accounted for by the coffee (assuming I'm not leaving any tips).

Subsequent transactions are none of my concern. They HAVE to be none of my concern, or I could just construct extended chains that would make everyone responsible: ("Well, you bought a pack of gum from me, and I used that money to go to Dunkin' Donuts, and he used that money to rape kids, and MONEY IS FUNGIBLE BITCHES!")

[John]

"There is a difference between choosing to exercise moral sanction by shunning and boycotting,"

Sure there is. And that is exactly why I don't want my tax money going to support abortion providers and by extension funding abortion.

You are reaching MNG levels of obfiscation here Fluffy. Is it really that hard to admit people on the other side of the culture war are right about something?

[MNG]

Everybody's laughing at you John!

[Fluffy]

John, you douche.

If you framed your argument against federal tax dollars going to Planned Parenthood as "We want to show that we are exercising moral sanction against Planned Parenthood by refusing to allow them to perform fee-for-service work paid for by the federal government," that would be an honest argument. It would also be an unconstitutional bill of attainder - but that's another issue.

But that would NOT be the same as saying, "We don't want taxpayer money to pay for abortions." Taxpayer money already doesn't pay for abortions.

Someday you are going to wake up to the fact that words have actual meanings.

BTW - Wind Rider is a fucking moron if he thinks that the abortion debate will disappear as soon as Planned Parenthood can't participate in Medicaid when it performs non-abortion work. I mean, how fucking clueless is such a claim?

[John]

If we are putting money into the pocket of someone that they wouldn't have had otherwise and they use that money to buy "X", you are supporting X. If it is like saying you are not supporting a hooker's drug habit when you pay to have sex with her. By paying her to have sex, you are enabling her to buy drugs. No difference.

Some day you will realize fluffy words have meanings even when those meanings are things you don't like.

[R C Dean]

But we aren't. We're talking about fee-for-service transactions.

I get your point, but its not quite that clean. The margin on those transactions is fungible money, at least. Also, you can argue that the use of the income from those trhansactions to cover fixed costs.

Let's say I've got a procedure room and equipment that is dual purpose. If it were used only for abortions, I couldn't afford it and wouldn't have it. But, because I can pay for it off of regular exams and procedures, I can use it to perform abortions. When I otherwise wouldn't be able to.

[Pip]

Here's whjat sucks about you, MNG. You bring up abortion as a distraction. You don't come here to have an honest discussion. You come here to gloat.

That and you're boring as hell.

[MNG]

So boring you regularly tune in to respond.

You're impotent lil' rage is always yummy Pippy.

[Sparky]

Just a quick question here. Why would you assume that someone who just said you bore them is full of impotent rage? Boredom and rage are at nearly opposite ends of the emotional spectrum.

And the whole yummy tears/rage thing, do people really think saying that makes them super cool or something?

[MNG]

Pippy's a regular itchy vagina.

[Sparky]

Huh, OK then.

Boredom = impotent rage iff you're an itchy vagina.

The logic definitely makes more sense now, thanks.

[cynical]

I think he's suggesting that the impact of loss of abortion clinics on the economy would be much smaller than regs on manufacturing or power or other larger parts of the economy.

I suppose there would be an effect on unemployment, eventually, especially if you assume the aborted are more likely to be born to disadvantaged and non-conservative parents, and thus more likely to be jobless.

[MNG]

Sure, the effect is smaller. The point is when those who make blanket statements about regulation being bad rush to regulate they have some 'splaining to do.

[Sinic]

Foolish consistency...
Emerson was OK with wise consistency.

[Ann O'Therlaff]

Pregnancies resulting from rape or incest or which threaten the health of the mother are gifts from God.

[The Unborn]

I didn't ask to be conceived. Why is that punishable by death?

[The Kidneys]

I demand legislation that protects me from excessive drinking!

[Liver]

Wait your turn, you whiny bastards.

[Brain]

I'm the decider! Suck it, lesser organs!

[Another Phil]

Because you don't have a right to your host. Parasite.

[original sin]

there is NO innocent human life, unborn or otherwise.

[GNM]

I read the candidates all applaud regulations as proper government action and increasing jobs, were they asked about how many DNC legislatures have moved to decrease regulations on abortion clinics around the country, regulations that have been shown increase the number the number of clinics?

I'm betting no.

[MNG]

Talk about alternate universes, was there a Democratic debate last night?

[Roderick Glossop]

the denseness is high in this one.

[Kolohe]

"bachman directly contradicted herself saying she wouldnt interfer w state law on gay marrage then saying she supports a federal marrage amendment defining man & woman."

As I said in the previous thread I'm going to her credit on being wrong on policy but neither dumb nor inconsistent. She said she wouldn't use her 'power as the president' to overturn state marriage laws. A constitutional amendment is a different thing. (and which everyone else except Paul supported wrongly too)

(But I will add that like Bee said going out of her way to get on the record a 'me too' shows clearly where she's coming from)

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

Golden Girls on Gay Marriage

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

Estelle Getty - Genuine Golden Girl

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

When Government Jumps the Shark
...At this point the program enters the third stage of life: it is now a Great White Elephant. It is a large and expensive program that does less and less good at a higher and higher cost. Fannie Mae stops helping creditworthy borrowers get affordable mortgages through simple and straightforward processes. Federal housing policy becomes increasingly complex as new layers and levels of subsidy and promotion are tacked on. As the incentives become increasingly misaligned, the country begins to over invest in housing; consumers start buying more house than they need because government support makes housing an attractive investment.

The Elephant process takes place in many ways. Health care programs become inflated with bells and whistles; programs originally intended to provide basic medical care gradually swell into huge and expensive monstrosities. Shouldn't chiropractic care be covered? Psychiatric care? Acupuncture? And since government is paying for the care shouldn't it regulate who provides the care through licensing procedures? Costs go up, procedures become more complex; efforts to control costs lead to more red tape....

[John]

I liked to that yesterday. It is great article.

[Almanian]

I read it, too - pretty damned good

[T]

On that note, I highly recommend Jonathan Rauch's Government's End for anybody who hasn't read it.

[R C Dean]

Yes. Awesome essay on the dynamics that make the slippery slope all but inevitable.

[John]

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/gunwalker-under-fire/

The ATF gun running scandal is just amazing. You would think even the leftist media would find this interesting. And it puts lie to the whole "they are not biased, they just like what sells". A story about the Feds selling guns to the Mexican mafia and it resulting in 150 Mexican cops being killed with the guns wouldn't sell?

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

Our posts seem to have crossed in the night, like you and Suki or you and MNG. 🙂

[John]

LOL> MNG doesn't even cross in the night. He sails in his own universe. It is a nice universe. No one else lives there is the only problem.

[MNG]

About 70 percent of the guns seized in Mexico and submitted to a U.S. gun-tracing program came from the United States, according to a report released by three U.S. senators Monday.

Of the 29,284 firearms recovered by authorities in Mexico in 2009 and 2010, 20,504 came from the United States, according to figures provided to the senators by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

[John]

The Federal government ran an under cover operation that got innocent people killed. That is a big deal you fucking blue team moron.

[MNG]

Take a breath there Keyboard Kommando, I posted the WaPo story with this ATF story in mind, perhaps the ATF actions were done to create the report?

[John]

Fair enough.

[Wind Rider]

So, MNG, what is the quota of dead Mexican ciops to produce a 'proper' ATF report to the Senate?

[MNG]

How far out there does Windie have to be to press on when even John gets it and cools it?

[Pip]

Where's your fucking answer to "Windie's" question, bitch?

[MNG]

Now, now lil' Pippy, the big people are talking!

[cynical]

I think this is actually a case where even MNG is wondering whether this is a black flag op. "Under the radar" indeed.

[MNG]

Finally. Can you point out this point to your fellow right-leaning posters here as it flies above their heads for the third trip?

[Wind Rider]

So, MNG, let's talk about consistency, since that was one of your big talking points earlier in the thread - so, you're all for a federal agency giving murderers totally freakin awesome military grade weapons so that a 'see, we told you there's a big problem, even is we're a huge part of it, but don't pay any attention to that part' Primo Spiffy collated, cross-indexed and even illustrated with very nice graphics report to clueless machine politicians is just as ok with, say, the urban legendish 1980's tales of the CIA becoming the biggest coke importer in the US so they could 'figure out who the biggest coke importers into the US'.

Both ideas are about as fucking brilliant as you are, MNG.

[MNG]

This is like retard stream of consciousness.

"so, you're all for a federal agency giving murderers totally freakin awesome military grade weapons"

Er, I'm not. I mean, when even John figures out I'm not on the other side on this and you press on, that's some serious derangement on your part.

[JLT]

and submitted to a U.S. gun-tracing program

Which means 70% of the guns Mexico thought might have come from the US did come from the US. It says nothing about the overall total.

[R C Dean]

They key qualifier is and submitted to a U.S. gun-tracing program, MNG. We don't have any idea what percentage of guns actually seized were sourced out of the US, as far as I know.

[Isaac Bartram]

It would also be interesting to know how many weapons originated in the US because they were given or sold to Mexican government agencies and found their way into the underworld due to the rampant corruption in those agencies.

I suspect that neither the Mexican nor the US governments are awful keen on having the public to know that number.

While I have no doubt that a certain number of weapons are aquired theough private sales at gun shows or otherwise but my guess is that that would be mostly handguns and probably not the the majority of those either.

And, unless they're finding a lot of M1 Garands, Schmidt-Rubin carbines and Lee Enfield, Mauser and Mosin-Nagant rifles in the arsenals of drug lords I have my doubts about gunshows being a big source of "military grade firearms" (or what ever catch phrase the media is using this week).

[CrackertyAssCracker]

70% of lots of manufactured goods probably come from USA. What is their other land-based trading partner? Guatamala, El Salvador? (too lazy to google a map). How many guns are manufactured in Mexcico, and Guatamala and/or El Salvador? I'm surprised it's only 70% of their biased sample. Where the hell are the other 30% coming from?

[Isaac Bartram]

The claims are based on info from databases that track firearms through the market. There is probably no item more rigorously regulated and documented in the US than firearms.

The claim here is that the !!!VAST!!! store of weapons was moved into Mexico after it was first delivered to wholesalers, distributors or dealers in the US market as opposed to having been directly exported from the factory in the US to a Mexican wholesaler or distributor.

The latter sales would show up in completely different databases.

[MNG]

I dunno, the "MSM" seems to be covering this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31.....91695.html

Is it all based on this one guy's allegations? That might be reason why some outlets are hesitant to run with it.

[MNG]

Oh, I see it is several whistle-blowers, and video too!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....ontentBody

[Abdul]

Interesting to see that AG Holder and ATF Director Mellman have refused to comply with congressional subpoenas. Rep Issa is considering contempt charges.

[Rich]

On Wednesday, Issa will be calling the mother of slain border agent Brian Terry to testify. Her testimony will most certainly provide a powerful emotional component to the proceedings, while further heightening the questions of what Attorney General Eric Holder has been hiding from Congress, and giving more reason for Congress to proceed with official charges of contempt against Holder, and possibly even President Obama, if the administration continues to actively stonewall

This could get interesting.

[Invisible Finger]

You make it sound like Mexican cops are angels. They're the most corrupt police forces on the continent.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

Does that count New Orleans?

[J[o]h[nn]y L[o][n]gt[o]rs[o]]

Can Heterosexuality Be Cured?
...Contemporary feminism's formula for "equality" is to treat male ambition as the norm for both sexes but male sexuality as abnormal--either immoral or pathological, depending on the context. A fascinating example appeared over the weekend in the New York Times, in a Week in Review article pondering the mystery of why "female politicians rarely get caught up in sex scandals."...

'Gunwalker' Under Fire
Rumors began to fly over a week ago that a .50 BMG weapon supplied to Mexican drug cartels by the U.S. Justice Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) was used to bring down a Mexican military helicopter in May. According to CBS News, the use of that weapon can be confirmed, and it turns out the helicopter was one of two fired upon by suspected cartel members.

The raid on the cartel that the helicopters were supporting was successful, netting more than 70 weapons, including the helicopter-down .50 BMG rifle and other weapons traced back to the botched ATF Operation Fast and Furious, also know as "Gunwalker."

To date, the ATF operation, which encouraged gun shops in the American southwest to sell weapons to suspected criminals and let them carry the weapons across the border, has resulted in an estimated 150 Mexican law enforcement officers and soldiers shot with ATF-supplied weapons. While the theory behind the plot was different, the end result is no more deplorable than Iran's arming of Iraqi terrorists.

At least two American law enforcement officers have been murdered with ATF weapons as well. ...

[Matrix]

And why aren't any of these bastards rotting in a jail cell right now? It baffles me. If a private citizen gives/sells a gun to a known criminal, they will be put under the jail. The government believes it is above the law.

[robc]

Female politicians dont get caught in sex scandals because the pervy women become high school teachers.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Now some researchers are suggesting that reason evolved for a completely different purpose: to win arguments.

Researchers also found that the Nazis were allowed to come to power just so Hitler could eventually be used in comparisons to our debate opposition for years to come.

[PS]

Godwin's Law is of vital importance to the internet, which is why Skynet sent a T0.9 (beta release) back in time to assist Hitler.

[Brett L]

This is like the heart of PoMo and its descendant belief structures. I have no doubt in my mind that people educated in major universities around the country believe this in droves. Reason might also have been invented to help separate the useful arguments based in reality from the useless arguments based in flaw and fantasy. That would have other advantages.

[Mr Baiter]

Indeed, Mr. Sperber, a member of the Jean-Nicod research institute in Paris, first developed a version of the theory in 2000 to explain why evolution did not make the manifold flaws in reasoning go the way of the prehensile tail and the four-legged stride.

A simpler explanation is that females are required for reproduction.

[gaijin97]

The pinnacle of mental masturbation. I'm betting most of the debate's participants--pro and con--are funded by tax dollars in their respective countries. My poor imagination is unable to construct a world where this type of debate has any viable market outside of government grants.

[BATF]

We meant to just use the Nazi Party to identify German political extremists for criminal investigation, but it got away from us.

[Rich]

Oh, ML, I just *knew* you'd be here!

And, best wishes to the intern(s) for a speedy recovery.

[Heroic Mulatto]

New York Times: "Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth."

Well, duh. Anyone who has even the slightest exposure to Classical rhetorical theory would know that arguments from logos were merely seen as just another weapon in the arsenal of the rhetorician; a person whose job was solely to convince other people to agree with his arguments.

[PS]

That's highly debatable!

[PS]

But seriously, doesn't this view come from Plato's highly influential descriptions of the Sophists as, you know Sophists?

[PS]

Second sophist lower case...

[Brett L]

That is what I recall from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. But its been a couple years and I don't remember the exact argument.

[SugarFree]

Yes, Plato and his sockpuppet Socrates were Sophists, they were just the first Sophists to use sophistry to argue that they weren't Sophists in order to dismiss the arguments of other Sophists as mere sophistry.

I stick with my homeboy Nietzsche: Plato is a bore.

[John]

We always think of Socrates as being this noble Christ like figure of the dialogs. Maybe he was. But isn't it also possible that he was the healthy living nitwit portrayed in The Clouds?

[El Foldo]

Probably somewhere in between, like most everybody.

[PS]

The more interesting question for me is how serious he was about things like his utopia. There are indications that he was being ironic as hell. But then he supposedly wrote Law which goes into more detail on his fascist utopia. On balance, I'd say he was probably serious.

[John]

I have wondered the same thing. But the general consensus among people who have read him in Greek and know a lot more than me is that he was deadly serious.

[PS]

Yeah, I think you are right. Still, there are some interesting hints of subtle irony like when he says something like, in the Republic, 'Now we come to the best system, tyranny.'

[Almanian]

But Anal Vanneman said I was teh GAI for copping to reading "The Republic" and stuff. So I declare you all TEH REALLY GAI! for talking about Plato AND the Sophists AND Socrates.

GAYER YOU ARE!

/idiot

PS These threads right here? Why I come to reason.com. Well, that and SugarFree's links...

[John]

If anyone would know "teh GAI" it would be Venneman, since he is about as gay as the Glee road tour.

[PS]

The intelligence exhibited in many of the comment threads is pretty astounding, and makes me realize how far down on the Bell curve I really am... OK, now I'm going to try and find that quote.

[Brett L]

PS:

You have to differentiate in The Republic between the discussion of the best and the best possible. If you had a society of perfect people, tyranny (also translated as a benevolent dictator or philosopher king) would be the best government because the tyrant would always do what was best and there would be no wasted time or effort. Then everyone agrees that this is impossible in the real world so some other form of government is probably better than monarchy/tyranny.

[PS]

Here's the quote I was thinking of (from the project Gutenberg copy), plus a bit more:

There remains still the finest and fairest of all men and all States--tyranny and the tyrant. Tyranny springs from democracy much as democracy springs from oligarchy. Both arise from excess; the one from excess of wealth, the other from excess of freedom. 'The great natural good of life,' says the democrat, 'is freedom.' And this exclusive love of freedom and regardlessness of everything else, is the cause of the change from democracy to tyranny. The State demands the strong wine of freedom, and unless her rulers give her a plentiful draught, punishes and insults them; equality and fraternity of governors and governed is the approved principle. Anarchy is the law, not of the State only, but of private houses, and extends even to the animals. Father and son, citizen and foreigner, teacher and pupil, old and young, are all on a level; fathers and teachers fear their sons and pupils, and the wisdom of the young man is a match for the elder, and the old imitate the jaunty manners of the young
because they are afraid of being thought morose. Slaves are on a level with their masters and mistresses, and there is no difference between men and women. Nay, the very animals in a democratic State have a freedom which is unknown in other places.

[cynical]

Not ironic, he's just a technocratic fascist.

[PS]

Brett, interesting point. Still when he writes, "There remains still the finest and fairest of all men and all States." That strikes me as more sarcasm than practalism.

[Brett L]

PS:

There's a reason the work is called Republic and not Democracy. Plato's Socrates was pretty critical of letting just anyone have a vote and putting everything to a vote of everyone. I'm not necessarily in disagreement with him.

[Fluffy]

I think that it's not impossible to extract the genuine Socrates from all the clutter BS added by Plato later, much in the same way you can with effort extract Jesus from all the BS added by Paul and the evangelists.

To me, it's pretty simple:

The two differing Socrates' are the proto-cynical one, who knew only that he knew nothing and demolished all arguments about virtue without ever really offering one of his own, and the fascist one, who "just happened" to hold a series of views that would justify the political atrocities undertaken by Plato's authoritarian and aristocratic cronies.

Which set of views comports better with what is known historically about the circumstances of Socrates' day-to-day life? The homeless guy refusing to conform to the city's dictates who is eventually executed for blasphemy and corruption of the young - which of those two Socrates' is he more likely to have been?

[Almanian]

Personally, I really like the So Crates from "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure". WAY better than the one we studied in "Western Philosophy" in teh collij.

[PS]

I don't think homeless guy is close to a realistic term for Socrates (assuming he wasn't just Plato's sockpuppet). All his students, including Plato, seem to have been some from the aristocracy. In fact, that's what he got in trouble for, corrupting the youth (of the aristocracy).

[Wind Rider]

Everything old is new again, and will get you written up in the NYT as schwanky, hip, and smart, if you can pull off a cocky pose with just the right fashionable glasses on.

[PS]

That's one of the best paragraphs I've ever read on the internets.

[Sparky]

This isn't an argument, it's simple contradiction.

[MNG]

Some More Regulations the GOP Might Want to Take Aim AT

Growing numbers of gay couples across the country are adopting, according to census data, despite an uneven legal landscape that can leave their children without the rights and protections extended to children of heterosexual parents.

Same-sex couples are explicitly prohibited from adopting in only two states ? Utah and Mississippi ? but they face significant legal hurdles in about half of all other states, particularly because they cannot legally marry in those states.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06.....n.html?hpw

[Abdul]

Do the other states prohibit them from natural procreation?

[MNG]

No, just a few fundamental rights here and there.

[Lord Googoo]

LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA, LA!

[Almanian]

I love L.A.

[The Gobbler]

Total NYT bullshit. My lesbian sister lives in Georgia. She and her partner have a child and in the eyes of the Peachtree state, both parents are legally the child's parents. Leagally. The state can't just swoop in and take the kid because her moms are teh gay.

[MNG]

"My lesbian sister lives in Georgia."

Are you sure it's not a male blogger pretending to be your lesbian sister?

[Brett L]

He's probably certain about his sister, but what about the partner?

[CE]

If I don't adopt, is that commerce? Can the feds force an individual mandate to adopt?

[SugarFree]

Maybe ALL the lesbian bloggers are actually straight dudes. Did I just BLOW YOUR MIND?

[John]

At least 90% of the lesbians in chat rooms are straight dudes. So why should lesbian bloggers be any different?

[Abdul]

You can find actual lesbians, but you have to search out Martina Navritalova chat rooms in which hot sex is not discussed.

Topic #1061: Why is it so hard to find flannel lingerie in plus sizes?

[Ska]

The larger neck size makes it hard to perfectly curl the tail end of a spiked mullet.

[Almanian]

*facepalm*

AND I lol'ed. I don't care who you are - that's funny

[Brett L]

They prefer to think of themselves a lesbians trapped in a man's body.

[The Gobbler]

Here's a great Savage Love excerpt (BTW, if you are a woman who wants to have sex with men, why get a FTM sex change so you can fuck gay guys? Talk about people deliberately making their lives difficult!):

I'm a 22-year-old FTM. I will become a legal male this summer. WOOT. Useless hole but still no pole. My friends ? all straight ? don't know I'm FTM because I don't feel it matters. I don't know any other FTMs, and I really don't care to. However, I like men. I have never had a boyfriend or been on a date. I go to gay clubs and flirt, get hit on, dance, and make out with other gay men. But when I am up front about being FTM, I never hear from a guy again. My question is, when do I tell a gay man I have been flirting with that I am not a bio male? I don't want to deceive them, but I at least want a chance for them to get to know me a little bit first.

? No Pole, No Go

http://www.citypages.com/advic.....011-06-09/

[Bee Tagger]

This blows my mind because I had assumed all bloggers were lesbians pretending to be straight men.

[Brett L]

Its the bitchiness, isn't it?

[Almanian]

In that case, you might be interested in this...

http://rctlfy.wordpress.com

[rather]

Thanks for the hits Almanian.

Hmm, never played a lesbian pretending to be a straight man. If I do, is the other a girl pretending to be a man? Or is she a lesbian?
If we are both lesbians pretending to be men, are we gay men? Or, both lesbians?

I think I prefer playing naughty teacher on summer vacation with bad boys who need tutoring: Put your dirty little hands on the desk! I want to smell them to see if you were touching yourself!

[Fluffy]

Wow, you were right - your sex life absolutely should be totally private.

[rather retarded]

That's what they pay me for.

[Almanian]

TMI. Way TMI.

[rather]

lol

[db]

That is like TMI-2. Radioactively bad.

[Apple]

Ha! The best part is that the guys each thought the other was a lesbian. They were flirting online. I love this story.

[R C Dean]

I guess they're just comfortable with their femininity.

I hope so, anyway.

[mr simple]

I was furious that the state of Kentucky could elect a Senator who thought Harlan County was where the Dukes of Hazzard originated

At least she has her priorities straight.

[Jerry]

Obama: If debt limit not raised, new financial crisis.

[Rich]

Just make the debt limit *infinite* once and for all. No more looming crisis.

[Brett L]

Without crises how can they take more rights and freedoms from us?

[Almanian]

Oh, I'm sure they'd think of some way to do it...

[Wind Rider]

Obama: If debt limit not raised, I'm going to use it as a pretense to announce yet another 'crisis' so that the dumbest course of action can be shoved down the nation's throat, and they WILL like it. And me.

FIFY

[Abdul]

Is every Lesbian blogger a middle-aged man?

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....mark-steyn

WTF is it with dudes who fantasize about being lesbians? You're supposed to fantasize about being with lesbians.

[Name Nomad]

Duh. If you ARE a lesbian, you always have access to the equipment no matter where you are.

[SugarFree]

Fire this motherfucker right now. At this point, we don't need anything encouraging women to be less sexy.

NYPD Officer Reprimands Woman For Biking While Sexy

Jasmijn Rijcken, general manager of a Dutch bicycle company, says she was cycling in Manhattan last month when she was pulled over by a police officer for wearing a short skirt. "He said it's very disturbing, and it's distracting the cars and it's dangerous," Rijcken said. "I thought he was joking around but he got angry and asked me for ID ... I didn't even think for one second that my outfit could be harmful or disturbing." Rijcken wasn't given a ticket, and didn't get the officer's name.

[Ska]

As if there aren't hot women in skirts and dresses walking up and down 5th Ave.

Nice gams on that broad.

[Brett L]

I can't believe I'm going to defend that idiot, but maybe he was just trying to ask her out and lost his nut. Who among us has never taken advantage of our job to detain a pretty member of our desired sex for a minute to run some game? As long as he didn't ticket her for saying no, I'm unable to really work up a rage.

[Matt Felch]

Funny, I thought the same. It's so cute!

[Abdul]

Fashion enforcement direced at cyclists should definitely err on the side of the sexy. There's far too much at the other side of the spectrum.

[not Right Said Fred]

I'm too sexy for my Skirt
too sexy for my Skirt

[Fist of Etiquette]

Policeman's boner was angry!

[PS]

WTF is supposed to be distracting on that broad? Her Jerry Lewis face. Her legs that aren't uber-fat?

[Kolohe]

You see what happens when you allow a Ground Zero mosque? The NYPD turns in to the Saudi Fashion Police!

[Lord Humungus]

The Men who killed New York
http://www.spectator.co.uk/ess.....york.thtml

[Mike M.]

That piece of shit Bloomberg can't disappear fast enough.

[Wind Rider]

Oh, yes he can. I enjoy watching alligators savor a meal.

[Almanian]

"Road Warrior" was on G4 last night - I watched it as always.

Once again, you were spectacular.

"Children of The Wasteland, you disappoint me..."

[Lord Humungus]

thank you - my only disappointment was I wasn't needed for the third movie. Tina Turner is no Lord Humungus.

[Almanian]

Well, after The Accident at the end of #2, there wasn't much of you left...

[Lord Humungus]

has that ever stopped filmmakers?

[Fluffy]

That Times article about reason is the usual nonsensical mishmash I have come to expect from the Times.

First of all, they can't bring themselves to ever state WHY both reason and irrationality might have evolutionary applications: namely, because some individuals can better attain their ends through dishonesty. If you're one of those renegade Mormons making up bullshit to justify assigning ten teenage brides to yourself, successfully bullshitting lets you pass your genes on a whole bunch. Duh. Great realization, guys. Definitely worthy of a scientific prize of some kind.

How do you write an entire article on this question and refuse to state the obvious?

I suppose it must be because they are pretty determined to declare BOTH reason and irrationality as mere evolutionary weapons. They can't directly describe what "gaining evolutionary advantage through irrationality" actually consists of, because if they do that it undermines their false equivalence.

At least the meme theorists are upfront about the fact that all they care about is whether a given meme is successful or not.

And then there's the usual parade of crap from hacks like Darcia Navarez, whose "objection" to the thesis offered here is:

"...Reasoning is something that develops from experience; it's a subset of what we really know." And much of what we know cannot be put into words, she explained, pointing out that language evolved relatively late in human development.

"The way we use our minds to navigate the social and general worlds involves a lot of things that are implicit, not explainable."

Why would she offer this as an objection to the idea that people turn to irrationality when it's advantageous to them to do so? Her entire life's work is probably an example of this, not an objection to it. Something tells me that one of the implicit, non-explainable things you "just know" without reasoning is "we should spend a lot of money employing sociology and psychology professors".

And WTF with the references to Rawls' "collaborative forums" as examples of reason? Consensus-building and reason aren't synonyms. They're actually closer to antonyms.

[Abdul]

Ummmmmmm. . . Drink?

[Almanian]

What the hell - OK!

[PS]

Twist my arm.

[Neu Mejican]

Dan Sperber is a sharp motherfucker.
The article is a bit thin on details.
I'll have to go read the Behavior and Brain Science issue...

[Jess Asken]

Would he have reprimanded her for a spandex-encased camel toe?

[MNG]

She's lucky he didn't taser it.

[Almanian]

Ohhhh!!! That hurts just to think about it!

[John Thacker]

The House just voted for Brad Sherman's "no funds in Libya in contravention of the War Powers Act" amendment to the Military Construction and Veterans Affairs funding bill. Bipartisan-- a majority of members of both parties, though about 30-40% opposition in each as well.

Of course, the White House won't care, since it says it's not in contravention of the War Powers Act anyway. Also, I think it only bans spending from monies approved in that bill, not from the general DoD bill.

[Tim]

But, Have we won yet?

Who will go first, Ghaddafi or Wiener?

[Almanian]

1) We have always won in Libya, Tim. #WINNING! Duh!

2) Weiner

[Almanian]

I can say THAT again...

[Almanian]

1) We have always won in Libya, Tim. #WINNING! Duh!

2) Weiner

[Brett L]

Duke of Vaporware no longer vaporware. May suck badly.

[db]

That review made me a little sad. It sounds like Gearbox missed the point of the racy Duke character and just made him deplorable. It's like the idiotic stickers showing Calvin pissing on something. If all you got out of Calvin and Hobbes was that Calvin was a dirty little troublemaker destined for prison, you completely misinterpreted the find, and, quite frankly, probably don't have the mental capacity to understand any subtle expression of dislike.

Too bad...Duke Nukem should have been a good "mature" game...it sounds like it's anything but.

[Brett L]

Will probably still obtain it. Just to see how bad it really is. Also, I suspect my tolerance for gutter humor is significantly higher than the reviewer's.

[cynical]

I doubt it can be laid at Gearbox's feet. My guess is that their only sin is trying to salvage the damn thing in the first place.

[Ska]

Hah, the review was kind of funny. I don't understand why people were looking forward to this. A game that has a development history worse than Chinese Democracy? It sounds like Bulletstorm (which I thoroughly enjoyed) beat them to the punch raunch-wise, and at least Bulletstorm brought some new gameplay (basically killing everyone as a series of trick shots).

Meh, I remember when Duke Nuk'em was a 2D platformer, and the answer to Commander Keen. Then Duke 3D seemed like a late response to DOOM. There are plenty of shooters out now, and you can't just put together some lame ass 1996 style FPS and expect people to be happy with it.

This game was never going to be a must play game for me, especially in a year where Skyrim, Battlefield 3, and Guild Wars 2 are coming out. I guess I'll get some laughs out of reading more poor reviews and seeing what some of my friends have to say about it.

[db]

Another major problem with many recent FPS's is the heavy scripting. I am so sick of not being able to explore the world. They may as well put your character in a remotely controlled wheelchair and just drive you through while you shoot at stuff. It's like they took a bad amusement park ride and set up targets along your path.

[Ska]

Seriously. What modern shooter doesn't already have that? Sure, the wheelchair might be an AC-130 or some other kind of aircraft, or a mounted machine gun on a Humvee, but it's the same general idea and will make up at least a few sequences. Also, a cutscene with "press X now" isn't all that exciting and is the lowest form of interaction you can put in a game (well, I guess it's one step above "just watch this").

Give me exploration and RPG elements instead of cutscenes any day.

[Ted S.]

Well, I must be a weirdo in that my preferred games to play online are Go and Scrabble.

[Ska]

Not that I haven't done my share of KGS and Dragonserver, but there are times for go and times for Battlefield.

[Monty]

"It's like they took a bad amusement park ride and set up targets along your path."

That could be a fun game in a fun house. If they sold it that way I might buy it. No DNF for me.

[R C Dean]

Ska, the stills from Skyrim are absolutely astonishing. Here's hoping it plays well.

[Ska]

Dude, search for the video from E3. It just gets better and better. I've been playing Oblivion again (with about 40 something mods added to it) just to get ready.

[T]

Yeah, I gave up on the main quest of Oblivion simply because of the goddamned tower grinding. That got old fast. Hopefully they won't screw the gameplay that hard this time.

[wylie]

Ska, the stills from Skyrim are absolutely astonishing. Here's hoping it plays well.

Still made by Bethesda? It'll run slow as shit no matter how tricked-out your rig is. (Fuck, Morrowind still wont run at 60fps. The did slightly better with Oblivion, since it only took my hardware about a year to catch up.)

[Lord Humungus]

I'm only looking forward to Red Orchestra 2 - one of the few, uh, realistic FPS. No health packs, no ammo-counters or cross-hairs.

Just you and a lousy bolt-action rifle against someone with a SMG... or a tank.

[cynical]

Wait, GW2 is coming out this year? Any news on when the public beta should start?

[R C Dean]

Too gad. I thought Gearbox did a fine job with Borderlands.

[AlmightyJB]

I live in Columbus and the TSA here has to be one of the worst in the country. How in the hell does the government find so many incompetent people? Is there a test where they ask you to find your own ass and if you can't, you're hired?

http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/201.....ar-539395/

[cynical]

Like most libertarians, I also live in Columbus, and the private sector isn't actually winning any prizes for reliability either. I went out of town this weekend and Delta fucked up my flight out (they were going to cut a day out of a weekend trip, until their gate agent managed to mitigate their idiocy to a four hour delay) and fucked up my flight back in, which did cost me a day. Nearly every single flight I saw that morning was oversold. It's not like it's Christmas. My coworkers reminded me that their last business trip got screwed up as well. At least they didn't lose my luggage (this time).

Air travel's benefits mainly vanish without a reasonable degree of reliability. You add that to Rapeyscans (which of course I fucking got pulled for) and molestation and emptying your wallet and pulling off your shoes and standing in line and little aggravating charges for every damn thing, and I'll just fucking drive next time. If the TSA starts intervening in that, well, at least there probably won't be nearly as many witnesses around...

[TrickyVic]

"" How in the hell does the government find so many incompetent people? ""

The citizenry. Those who aspire going to capitol hill have been relying on their incompetency for over two centuries.

[P Brooks]

At least two American law enforcement officers have been murdered with ATF weapons as well. ...

And, of course, prior to this, all the other broken eggs were necessary and justifiable (although mildly inconvenient) collateral damage. There's no reason for the G-men to concern themselves with civilian casualties, but the loss of a "brother officer" releases a paroxysm of grief and remorse.

NO SHAME, NO MERCY.

[Brett L]

Those 2 US LEOs were ATF by the way. That's what finally broke the blue wall of silence on this one. (Although, in fairness, there was already a whistleblower before that incident, but that triggered the end of stonewalling by middle management.)

[db]

Re: "No Shame. No Mercy," I'm still looking for that photo. Next time I'm in Columbus I'll try to get a pic of it, unless someone else here does first.

[The Gobbler]

The Return of the Population Bomb
BUSINESS WORLD
By William McGurn
When the experts tell you there are too many people, they don't mean too many Swedes.

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....LEFTSecond

[WixZoo]

Hmmm, a pot pizza, that doesnt sound like a bad idea. Wow.

http://www.complete-privacy.no.tc

[proegg antichicken]

I'm doing vanishing point. Driving to San Fransisco, in less than three days. In my turbocharged '71 charger.

[Brett L]

I know it's the wrong make and model, but I hope you'll attempt some of the Bullitt runs once you get there. Those hills look like fun for a muscle car.

[P Brooks]

Speaking of the TSA, why no mention of the recent mass "firings" in Hawaii?

I am disappoint.

*I use the term "firings" loosely, since I expect all of them to be successfully shielded by their union representatives from this "capricious" and "arbitrary" attempt to remove these noble, hardworking dues-paying Defenders of Our Homeland from their posts, which would be like painting a target on America.

[COINTELPRO]

"Ron Paul, the Texas congressman who has run for president before, did little to shake his image as a fringe candidate by talking too fast and dropping obscure subjects like 'Keynesian bubble' and 'monetary policy' into the conversation."

*facepalm*

[Rich]

I notice that's a Yahoo! exclusive.

Do you, uh, Yahoo!?

[Joe M]

Fuckin monetary policy, how does it work?

[Quichique]

No offense, but am I the only one who just realized today that MNG is a dude? I totally thought he was a girl this whole time.
I've been reading his posts in the wrong voice!

[MNG]

Thanks for sharing your fantasies, disturbing though they may be.

[PS]

I must admit never gotten any wood from anything you've ever written.

[Quichique]

Maybe you weren't reading his posts in the right voice?

[PS]

Voice + timbre = mahogany.

[Quichique]

Don't you mean balsa?

[PS]

No, balsa is a very light and fragile wood, easily broken by a child.

[Quichique]

Precisely.

[PS]

No, children never break things precisely.

[Quichique]

I don't know how many children you have, but mine breaks exactly what she intends to.

[PS]

I'm pretty sure my kid never intends to break anything, but that doesn't stop him from doing it fairly often.

[Ted S.]

Voice + timbre = mahogany.

Do you know where you're going to?
Do you like the dreams that life is showing you?

[T]

n00b. Many moons ago, his handle was Mr. Nice Guy. At some point, he got lazy.

[Quichique]

Man, there are a lot of initials floating around this particular thread.

[Fluffy]

Miss Nice Gams

[Quichique]

Today on Hit&Run;:
Our heroes find themselves in an opposite-gendered alternate universe.
Hijinks ensue.

[SugarFree]

And now MNG is that forevermore.

[cynical]

It's much harder to get "minge" out of Mr. Nice Guy, so it's all to the good.

[Abdul]

He's the one Lesbian posing as a man. She's trying to avenge her Syrian non-sister.

[P Brooks]

Driving to San Fransisco, in less than three days. In my turbocharged '71 charger.

You'll probably be dragged from the car and stoned to death as soon as you cross the bridge from Oakland, by people who have nothing but your best interests at heart.

ps- Be sure to visit the Exploratorium.

[P Brooks]

I totally thought he was a girl this whole time.

On the intertoob, nobody knows you're a dog.

[PS]

You know such hip terms as the intertoob, not to mention HTML code, yet refuse to acknowledge the existence of threaded comments. Fascinating.

[Quichique]

On the other hand, he's referencing a cartoon from the early 90's. It was probably first seen in print!

[P Brooks]

Until you begin incessantly arfing, anyway.

[?]

You know such hip terms as the intertoob, not to mention HTML code, yet refuse to acknowledge the existence of threaded comments. Fascinating.

It is not alone.

The "reply to this" script (along with several other standard page elements, like the thing where comments' authors' names are visible next to the comments they make) doesn't work for everybody. I would almost never thread anyway, because it's wrong, but I also can't.
Welcome to Obama's America, nameless dorks.

[?]

Yeah, there's that thing where line breaks get stripped, too.

WHAR AOBOMO WHAR

[Refusenik P Brooks]

refuse to acknowledge the existence of threaded comments.

"I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender. They have him pulling a wagon up in Kansas I bet."

[josie wales]

dying aint much of a living

[Mike Laursen]

New York Times: "Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth."

I used to swat flies with a rolled-up copy of reason, but I had to stop when I started reading it on my Kindle.

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