The Methuselah Manifesto
Witnessing the launch of Immortality, Inc.?
Los Angeles, California—If you're under age 30, it is likely that you will be able to live as long as you want. That is, barring accidents and wars, you have centuries of healthy life ahead of you. So the participants in the Longevity Summit convened in Manhattan Beach, California, contend. Over the weekend Maximum Life Foundation president David Kekich gathered a group of scientists, entrepreneurs, and visionaries to meet for three days with the goal of developing a scientific and business strategy to make extreme human life extension a real possibility within a couple of decades. Kekich dubbed the effort the Manhattan Beach Project.
Tech entrepreneur and futurist Ray Kurzweil opened the conference with a virtual presentation on exponential technology trends that are bringing the prospect of achieving longevity escape velocity ever closer. "We are very close to the tipping point in human longevity," asserted Kurzweil to the conferees. "We are about 15 years away from adding more than one year of longevity per year to remaining life expectancy." This has been labeled by summiteer and life-extension guru Aubrey de Grey as longevity escape velocity. Achieving escape velocity, according to Kekich, would mean that "your projected day of reckoning moves further away from you rather than closing in on you."
"Health and medicine will be a million times more powerful in 20 years," Kurzweil declared. He predicted that the complexity of biology will yield to the exponential powers of applied information technology and take off. He cited Moore's Law which predicts doubling of microchip functionality and halving their costs every two years.
The decrease in cost and increase in speed of sequencing whole human genomes is outpacing even Moore's Law. In 2000, the first genome was sequenced after 14 years and at a cost of $3 billion. Now various startups offer the potential to sequence an individual's DNA for less than $100 in under an hour.
The goal of the summit was to devise scientific and business strategies with the goal of demonstrating the capability to reverse aging in an older human being by 2029. By then, Kurzweil argued, people will be beginning their intimate merger with information technologies, biotechnologies, and nanotechnologies. Kurzweil, age 61, emphasized, "Something I am personally interested in is not just designer babies, but designer baby boomers."
Going Back to Move Forward
Anti-aging research is a rich and varied territory right now. Researchers are finally beginning to get a handle on the actual causes of aging. With this increased scientific understanding, some researchers now believe they are on the way to figuring out how to stop it, and—eventually—how to reverse it.
University of California, Riverside biochemist Stephen Spindler reported on his research seeking caloric restriction mimetics. It is well established that restricting many mammal species to about two-thirds of what they would ordinarily eat extends their healthy lifespans. For example, calorie restricted mice live up to 50 percent longer, and experience less heart disease and cancer than those who eat as much as they want. Spindler is now screening a variety of compounds including pharmaceuticals to see if they mimic the effects of calorie restriction in mice. He presented early results that show that some compounds, like cholesterol lowering statin drugs and the immune suppressant rapamycin, do seem to increase mouse lifespans. However, Spindler added that more is not necessarily better. Mice receiving combinations of compounds are not living any longer. "I personally would caution people taking large amounts of supplements in combination to be careful," said Spindler. The good news is that several major pharmaceutical companies are working on calorie restriction mimetics known as sirtuins.
Michael Rose, a biologist at the University of California, Irvine, has been breeding long-lived fruit flies to one another for decades. Rose's work is built on the premise that natural selection is the cause of aging.
Specifically, natural selection works to keep organisms healthy and alive until after they have reproduced. Once they've reproduced, natural selection no longer works to prevent the accumulation of damage that leads to aging and death. Your body is no longer needed by your germ cells once their genes have moved on to the bodies of your children.
Using artificial selection for longevity, Rose has produced fruit flies that live four times longer than normal, the human equivalent of being healthy at age 300. The Methuselah flies are more fecund and better at handling environmental stresses than are normal flies. Since fruit flies and humans share many similar genes, insights garnered from the genomics of long-lived flies are being used by Genescient LLC to develop anti-aging supplements for people. The company plans to release its first product in 2010. "In my world biological immortality is possible," said Rose.
William Andrews, head of Sierra Sciences (motto "Cure Aging or Die Trying") talked about his company's project to identify compounds that lengthen telomeres. Why do that? Telomeres are repeated sequences of DNA that cap the ends of chromosomes to keep them from unraveling and to keep them from binding to other chromosomes. At conception, telomeres are about 15,000 repeats long. Each time a cell divides it loses about 100 repeats, growing ever shorter. When the repeats get short enough, cells generally receive a signal that tells them to die. Andrews argues that telomeres control aging in cells and thus control aging in us. A new study this month reports that centenarians have longer telomeres than controls do.
According to Andrews, when an adult's telomeres get down to about 5,000 repeats they die of old age. By looking at telomere length in a blood sample, Andrews claimed, "I can tell how old you are and how long you have before you die of old age." (For the curious, Spectracell offers a commercial telomere length test.) The only cells in our bodies that do not suffer telomere shortening are reproductive cells because the enzyme telomerase keeps adding new repeats as they divide. The goal of Sierra Sciences is to develop compounds that will reactivate telomerase in somatic cells to stop telomere shortening. After screening more than 160,000 compounds, Sierra has come up with 33 that activate telomerase and lengthen telomeres. "This would be the biggest thing to hit the planet, if we can turn these into drugs,' said Andrews. Also represented at the summit was TA Sciences which manufactures a telomerase activator as a supplement called TA 65, which is derived from the astragalus plant. Cost? A mere $8,000 for a six month supply.
Why do some people live to be over 100 years old? That's the question that Stephen Coles, head of the Supercentenarian Research Foundation (SRF) is trying to answer. Supercentenarians are people who are over 110 years old. In the world there are 76 currently validated supercentenarians, 72 are female and 4 are male. The genetic underpinnings of their longer lives are still murky. However, Coles has performed a number of autopsies and he has found that most died of senile cardiac amyloidosis, the accumulation of amyloid fibers in their heart muscles.
John Furber, founder of Legendary Pharmaceuticals, discussed the problem of accumulating crosslinked proteins and sugars inside and outside of cells, e.g., fibers like those that killed Coles' supercentenarians. The digestive organelles inside cells called lysosomes slowly become clogged with advanced glycation end-products (AGEs). The promise of one product that aimed to break up damaging crosslinks, alagebrium, has faded with the financial prospects of the company that developed it. If old fibroblasts, the cells that produce connective fibers, could be rejuvenated, say by restoring their telomere lengths, then, perhaps drug interventions like alagebrium might not be needed. Interestingly, there is some evidence that periodic fasting upregulates autophagy, the process by which cells digest accumulating cellular and extracellular junk.
Anti-aging research is not for the faint-hearted. Biologist Michael West was one of the founders of the biotech stem cell company Geron. He later founded Advanced Cell Technology which worked on therapeutic cloning. Therapeutic cloning, a.k.a somatic cell nuclear transfer, involves inserting nuclei from specific patients into human eggs to produce stem cells that are immunologically matched to those patients. The goal would be to transform these stem cells into other cells—nerve, muscle, immune system cells—which could be used to repair damaged or old tissues and organs.
That's the theory, but no one has been able to perfect the practice; no stem cell lines have been derived from cloned human embryos so far. West now heads up BioTime, which is increasingly focused on using induced pluripotent stem cells (IPS cells).
IPS cells are created by dosing normal adult cells, say skin cells, taken from a patient with various embryonic factors that cause it to revert to an earlier stage of development. IPS cells can be transformed into other types of cells which can be used to repair damage or rejuvenate tissues and organs. For example, new hemangioblasts, the precursor cells of blood, could be used to reconstitute and rejuvenate the human immune system.
Former biotech company founder Robert Bradbury proposed that the accumulation of misrepaired double strand breaks in the DNA that makes up our genes as a significant cause of aging. If a single strand is broken, the second strand functions as a template for guiding the proper repair of the broken one. Misrepaired genes make distorted proteins which do not work as well or not at all. By age 70, each cell averages several thousand double strand breaks. However, some cells are unscathed by these breaks. Bradbury is developing techniques to identify these "pristine stem cells" which he believes may be used to grow new organs and tissues to replace damaged or old ones. He points out that there are some 2,600 stem cell therapy trials currently underway in the U.S.
Gregory Fahy, the chief scientific officer of 21st Century Medicine is working on the cryopreservation of tissues and organs. Fahy pointed out that about one-third of people die of organ failure, e.g., heart attacks, kidney failure, and the like. The problem is that the ice crystals that form during freezing damage organs a lot. His company has developed a number of low toxicity cryoprotectants which enable the vitrification of organs as they cool. Vitrification prevents the formation of ice crystals and thus limits freeze damage. Vitrified corneal cells transplanted into the eyes of vervet monkeys work. Fahy has successfully transplanted a dog kidney kept at 0 degrees Celsius for four days.
Theoretical biogerontologist, Aubrey de Grey, the founder of the SENS Foundation and the Methuselah Foundation, is the energizer bunny of anti-aging scientific research and advocacy. SENS stands for Strategies for Engineered Negligible Senescence, which De Grey defines as "an integrated set of medical techniques designed to restore youthful molecular and cellular structure to aged tissues and organs." De Grey focused on one proposed anti-aging solution which is to install mitochondrial genes in the nuclei of cells. One theory of aging is that the cellular powerhouses, the mitochondria, produce highly reactive molecules called free radicals as a side effect of generating energy to run cells. These free radicals over time cause mutations in mitochondrial genes which become ever more damaged, producing even more free radicals in a downward death spiral. If these mitochondrial genes could be moved to the more protected nucleus this free radical death spiral could be greatly attenuated. Engineering this migration from mitochondria to nucleus has been successful for one gene so far.
De Grey also addressed the problem of eliminating the damaging crosslinked proteins and sugars that clog cells and damage the extracellular matrix. The SENS Foundation is funding research to find enzymes in bacteria that degrade these organic complexes with the goal of turning them into drugs.
Beyond Biology
One major barrier to cracking the problem of aging is a shortage of researchers. Computer scientist Peter Voss, the founder of Adaptive Artificial Intelligence, aims to solve that researcher shortage by creating the equivalent of thousands of researchers and research assistants by means of artificial general intelligence. "Imagine hundreds of thousands of Ph.D.-level machines chipping away at the aging problem," mused Voss. Two years ago at the Singularity Summit, Voss declared, "In my opinion AIs will be developed almost certainly in less than 10 years and quite likely in less than five years." At the Longevity Summit, Voss predicted that his artificially intelligent researchers would be ready in six years.
Biology is nanotechnology that works. Robert Freitas and Ralph Merkle, from the Institute for Molecular Manufacturing, outlined their vision of how a robust medical non-biological nanotechnology would work in 20 years or so. Freitas won the 2009 Feynman Prize for Theory, in recognition of his pioneering work in molecular mechanosynthesis. Nanotechnology aims to control matter at the atomic and molecular scale. "The difference between good and bad health is how your atoms are arranged," pronounced Merkle.
The goal of medical nanotechnology is to unleash exceedingly tiny machines to patrol throughout the body and its cells repairing damage as it occurs. They envision respirocytes to carry oxygen more efficiently than red blood cells; microbivores to attack and digest pathogens; and even chromallocytes to repair and replace damaged chromosomes.
In his presentation Kurzweil envisioned constant nanotech monitoring of individual brain cells. Such nanotech devices would "ultimately capture our mind files and back them up," suggested Kurzweil. "A thousand years from now, people will think it pretty daunting the people today went through life without backing up their mind files every day."
But what if you don't live long enough to take advantage of the new longevity treatments coming along in a couple of decades? For example, this life expectancy calculator suggests that there is a 50 percent chance that I will live only another 33 years. Kekich, who convened the summit, urged participants to take good care of their health—diet, exercise, supplements, stress management—because they are not gambling on just 15 years more of life, but perhaps 1,500 years of life.
But what if the grim reaper comes despite your best efforts to stave him off? Ralph Merkle, in his role as a board member of the Alcor Life Extension Foundation, explained the goal of cryonics. Cryonics involves storing human bodies or brains at the temperature of liquid nitrogen (320 degrees below zero Fahrenheit). Alcor defines cryonics as "a speculative life support technology that seeks to preserve human life in a state that will be viable and treatable by future medicine." Or as Merkle put it, "We want a second opinion from a future physician." The idea is that if brain structure is preserved, nanomedical devices would be able to restore a person to life sometime in the future. Merkle acknowledges that cryonics is highly experimental (to say the least), but we do also know what happens to the control group. Merkle ended with his standard quip, "So you have to decide if you want to be in the experimental group or the control group."
Immortality, Inc.
Some the brainstormers in the business strategy session of the Manhattan Beach Project were new media entrepreneur and Disney executive Oliver Luckett, 2008 Libertarian Party VP candidate Wayne Allyn Root, computer and biotech entrepreneur Richard Offerdahl, marketing expert John Lustyan, social media marketer Michael Terpin, Lifestar Institute COO Kevin Perrott, CEO of TA Sciences Noel Patton, filmmaker Michael Potter, marketer Joe Sugarman, computer entrepreneur Ken Weiss, and Bill Faloon, co-founder of the Life Extension Foundation.
Hanging over the entire event was a single question: Why are so many people unaware of the tantalizing possibility of soon achieving extreme human life extension? And why do so many reject it when they hear about it? Luckett put his finger exactly on the chief problem. Aspiring to live for hundreds of years sounds creepy to most people. And the longevity "space" is filled nearly to the brim with scammers and charlatans, peddling all manner of 21st century snake oils.
To illustrate the creep-out factor, Luckett told the story of offering the trailer to the documentary about Ray Kurzweil, Transcendent Man, to run on his father's campaign website (his father is running for governor of Mississippi). The campaign handlers took one look at it and said, "Keep that trailer as far away as possible. We can't have a trailer talking about transcending religion being shown at the local Baptist church."
As someone who has leveraged social media into several businesses, Luckett urged summiteers to focus their efforts on spreading their message using those new communications technologies. People trust new ideas that come from their friends. Of course, social media "friends" now include stars and athletes. Being in Tinsel Town, the assembled marketers spent some time brainstorming about which film or TV stars might take up the cause of promoting longevity research. Apparently, Suzanne Summers is an enthusiast, but I sure hope that the summiteers can find some other celebrities.
The summiteers also puzzled over the frustrating fact that no billionaire evidently wants to live forever. Why else have none come forward to finance serious life extension research? Entrepreneur Offerdahl explained that rich people fear the ridicule of their friends. Longevity quackery is rife and rich folks don't want to suffer embarrassment in front their friends who would accuse them of being dupes. Like all non-profit efforts, the summiteers longed to find one billionaire who would risk ridicule to support serious life extension research.
How much cash is needed to get a good start on the goal of stopping aging by 2024 and demonstrating that it can be reversed by 2029? Kekich crunched numbers to come with a figure of a mere $63 million to jump start a future of perpetual youth. Of course some avenues are already being explored by well-funded biotech and pharmaceutical companies, e.g. calorie restriction mimetics like sirtuins. After batting around a few ideas, the group finally focused on a proposal by Bill Faloon to create a public life extension research company. The goal of the corporation would be raise money to invest specifically in companies that research technologies aiming to stop and reverse aging, not just treat diseases. The Manhattan Beach Project participants would seek to raise an initial $5 million before bringing the company to the public. Faloon and another participant committed a million dollars to the project. One idea was to call it MaxLife Capital, but my favorite proposed corporate moniker was Immortality, Inc.
At the end of the summit, David Kekich's poignant question still resonates: "Will you be part of the last generation to die from aging, or will you be part the first generation to enjoy open-ended youth and vitality?"
Ronald Bailey is Reason's science correspondent. His book Liberation Biology: The Scientific and Moral Case for the Biotech Revolution is available from Prometheus Books.
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Single-payer immortality for all!
No, if people in the current administration already think it is wasteful to spend extra to get new technology 2 years before Europe does, then for sure it is wasteful to get this kind of technology.
Not to mention the Christian Right who think life extension is immoral.
If Obamacare passes, and we get huge new regulation and taxes, I worry about innovation.
Even if stuff happens, we'll have to fight against the statists in government who will want to regulate and give this away for free to everyone (it would not be fair for the rich to live longer but not the poor), and that will kill innovation too, without early adopters to fund development, and giving it away for free will drive away investors.
This is, quite literally, another way socialism will condemn is to death.
condemn us, dammit, broken finger make typing hard. eat, dig, thing
I dont' think so plut,.
I agree. Thanks for share it.
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Long love science. Although I prefer to stay healthy instead of tube
Long live science. Though I much prefer to live healthy instead of tube.
It is shameful that we are the only industrialized nation that does not have universal immortality! Juristische ?bersetzung ?bersetzung
No, if people in the current administration already think it is wasteful to spend extra to get new technology 2 years before Europe does, then for sure it is wasteful to get this kind of technology.
Not to mention the Christian Right who think life extension is immoral.
If Obamacare passes, and we get huge new regulation and taxes, I worry about innovation.
Even if stuff happens, we'll have to fight against the statists in government who will want to regulate and give this away for free to everyone (it would not be fair for the rich to live longer but not the poor), and that will kill innovation too, without early adopters to fund development, and giving it away for free will drive away investors.
Another secret to longer life, getting better sleep.
It's said that living day to day with under 8 hours of sleep sheds 7 years off your lifetime.
120 years, here I come.
That's me screwed then. I spend almost all my waking hours running our wedding guitarist business and only get 5 or 6 hours sleep a night!
Job-killer.
That's for sure.
Really interesting topic that cuts to the core for me right now.
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There was a time when we thoght the longer the opera, the better the opera.
I like major variety of music. Why choose single one?
I believe the longer the opera is, the likelihood that you will stay awake will be greatly reduced.
If you think that health care is expensive now, wait until everyone starts living forever!
You don't think this will require ongoing treatments? So of course we must ensure that everyone (e.g., sex offenders, gang bangers, etc.) has equal access to these treatments in order to be fair. I mean if we don't give treatments to death row inmate Scott Peterson (Lacie's killer) then he is the victim of cruel and unusual punisment. On the other hand, if we do give him treatments, he could spend 900 years in jail, which could also be viewed as cruel and unusual.
What the fuck is Lacie?
Your pink panties.
I've read in some science fiction books where withholding treatment is used as punishment. They aren't jailed, just not given the youth technology for 20 years. Then they live the rest of the time with 20 years older bodies than everyone else
On another hand, in Blish's Cities in Flight slow death by withholding of anti-aging is considered more cruel than the firing squad.
Mike M; Actually, if everyone has the health and vitality of a 25 year old, think how cheap health care will be.
I would like to die of old age with the vitality of a 25 year old!
This is going to wreak serious havoc on Viagra sales.
haha, don't we all...
This excites me, but... question: what happens to the planet's population even a single generation after we're all ostensibly immortal?
We're banking on space colonization, right?
Just making sure I'm on the same page, here.
I'm always banking on space colonization.
+1
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Actually nothing drastic happens to population. See this study:
http://www.fightaging.org/arch.....manity.php
"nalysis of already existing computer programs for population projections revealed that many of them are based on short-sighted assumptions of small incremental changes in human life span, and they do not allow making detailed projections for the oldest age groups of the population (which are often collapsed into one single 85+ year category). For this reason, many already existing computer programs of population projections are not well suited for the purpose of this project. Therefore, with the support of the Methuselah/SENS foundation, a new demographic projection software has been developed in this study, which was then validated for consistency of results with traditional approaches. This new demographic software is based on generally accepted cohort-component method of population projections. A number of different demographic projections is considered in this project, assuming several scenarios of life extension.
A general conclusion of this study is that population changes are surprisingly slow in their response to a dramatic life extension. For example, we applied the cohort-component method of population projections to 2005 Swedish population for several scenarios of life extension and a fertility schedule observed in 2005. Even for very long 50-year projection horizon, with the most radical life extension scenario (assuming no aging at all after age 50), the total population increases by 35 percent only (from 9.1 to 13.3 million). Moreover, if some members of the society reject to use new anti-aging technologies for some religious or any other reasons (inconvenience, non-compliance, fear of side effects, costs, etc.), then the total population size may even decrease over time. Thus, even in the case of the most radical life extension scenario, population growth could be relatively slow and may not necessarily lead to overpopulation."
This excites me, but... question: what happens to the planet's population even a single generation after we're all ostensibly immortal?
If only the reasonably well-off gain immortality due to it being expensive, not much, since on average they are breeding at under the 2.1 child replacement rate.
The long term result would likely be an even lower reproductive rate, as crowding would cause housing and food prices to rise.
That's why crowded urban areas are population sinks -- the high cost of living causes people to choose to have fewer or no kids.
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No, space colonization won't work. At a current growth rate of about 2% per year and an average adult weight of 100 pounds we are producing 14 billion pounds a year of people.
The recent Mars Rover missions transported 2350 pounds to the Martian surface at a cost of $820M. If we assume that is all transport cost then the cost per pound to Mars is $348K. To transport 14 billion pounds of people to Mars (without food, water or air) would cost more than $5,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 5 quadrillion dollars), more than 80 times the GDP of the entire world in 2008.
So if we devoted all of our new wealth, every year, to shipping people to Mars, we could handle less than 1.5% of the growth. If you want to go somewhere else with an atmosphere, it'll cost more. If you want to build millions of space stations, it'll cost more. Some space exploration fans might suggest that we can export our way out of the population problem, but it's never gonna happen.
We could, perhaps, enforce some sort of final solution and just fire the excess people into the sun, but it's cheaper and more efficient to eat them. We can go into space for profit or to put some of our eggs in a different basket, but we won't reduce population by exporting it.
That's assuming that space exploration will always be as expensive as it is today, which is really very silly considering the speeches Ray Kurzweil has been giving about exponential growth. We probably need some new technology to enable significant space colonization, such as a space elevator and a large base on the moon, but that will happen in time. And don't forget commercial space-flight is starting to pick up as well. I'm not saying it'll be a viable option as the moment longevity starts to increase, but neither will overpopulation be a problem right away. Remember, if we placed solar panels in just 5% of the Sahara desert, we would be able to power all our existing technology. The sun has plenty of energy to go around, we just have to start using it.
Obviously, being quantitative is as useless as being skeptical when BIG ideas are in the air. When Ray Kurzweil is selling $43/pound tickets to Mars, he can call me and maybe I'll go. (The $43 comes from reducing the cost of a trip to Mars by a factor of 8000 so transporting our excess consumes only about 1% of global GDP.) Until then we're all safe from being transported for littering.
Maybe you would have to choose sterility to get immortality treatments.
Also, I doubt this stuff will be cheap. By design if for no other reason. So we won't have that many people living that long.
Eternal life is a right.
They'll probably just run it like health care. Eternal life is a fundamental right, so we're gonna tax the hell out of the middle class so they can't afford it and then give it to the parasites among us (thus creating a truly permenant constituency for gubmint largesse). Ultimately, it will be like one big Galtian strike, if only because the lions share of those worthy of life (eternal or not), will have passed on, leaving only the dregs of society and the well-connected elite. Let's see Emmerlich make this doomsday scenario a theatrical hit.
It is shameful that we are the only industrialized nation that does not have universal immortality!
You won't even notice the cost. According to the BBC, "The average life expectancy for a male child born in the UK between 1276 and 1300 was 31.3 years. In 1998, it is 76." Costs decline and markets adjust our expectations. We expect to live into our 70s now at a cost we can afford. I see no reason that won't continue to be the case.
Someone please explain what the fuck is a futurist?
A futurist is someone who futures for a living, WWJGD. Duh.
In the future getting hit by a bus is gonna suck a whole lot more.
Babble incoherently much?
You must be new here.
This is quite interesting, thank you for this
This whole immortality thing strikes me as being kinda stupid. Since living forever makes saving for retirement an infinite endeavor, what sort of marketable skills can one possibly expect to have at 167? You'd have 92-year-olds running circles around you.
I wouldnt worry too much about that. Our congressional overlords are smart, they'd probably raise the SS eligibility age to 75 in a world of immortality and show us a five year budget window that would prove the system is still solvent.
Maybe though we woudn't have retirement, just start working a bit less.
For example, once you get the house paid for, and have some cash in the bank, switch to a 4-6 hour day maybe 4 days a week.
Enough to keep the mind occupied, but leave plenty of time for play.
yeah because I'm sure technology won't make your body actually feel younger, just limp along getting more and more feeble, that's the real goal, right
Imagine going back to school, every thirty or sixty years, to study an entirely different field!
People seek eternal life, yet they don't know what to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon.
Yeah, immortality is BOOORING!!
I agreed, after doing the same thing for ages!
Genius.
I masturbate.
You're a jerk, Dent. A complete kneebiter.
(Read "Life, the Universe, and Everything" for the reference.)
Also, I'm scheduled to turn 31 in a month, so as Glenn Reynolds likes to say, faster, please.
Aw, you beat me to it... by a couple of years.
Our society is headed towards:
The gun is good! The penis is evil!
Don't worry, the liberals will start distributing guns when resources to maintain the eternals becomes scarce.
Wait, why does everyone have to die, especially in the 70-80 range. That's like saying everyone has to get around by walking or riding a horse. Domain name registrationjackey
The Man,
what the hell are you even saying in your comment? Stop rambling
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Manhattan Beach is a pretty good place to find designer baby boomers.
I thought Bruce Sterling had some interesting notions in "Holy Fire". Basically, since the old people had all the money a gerontocracy was established. The trick about getting the life extension procedures was that you had to live a squeaky clean lifestyle, because no of the corporations that were developing the procedures wanted to risk all that money on development and the potential for investor pullout on someone who does drugs, smokes, and doesn't exercise.
Term limits would be a must, no more counting on Strom Thurman kicking the bucket.
I don't get it. You libertarians scream like little girls when somebody says that government purchase of football stadiums is a good idea and then somebody says this:
"One major barrier to cracking the problem of aging is a shortage of researchers. Computer scientist Peter Voss, the founder of Adaptive Artificial Intelligence, aims to solve that researcher shortage by creating the equivalent of thousands of researchers and research assistants by means of artificial general intelligence. "
And you guys are discussing its implementation details and environmental impact. A couple of weeks ago it was singularists saying that we will soon be able to upload our minds into computers and thereby achieve immortality. Where's the critical thinking? Where's the evidence for artificial PhDs? You guys would have a better understanding of where science is and how it's done if you watched Futurama, seriously.
Am I the only one that remembers Steve Martin's bit "You can be a millionaire and never pays taxes. . .first get a million dollars."
I thought this thread WAS a brainstorming session for a Futurama script.
The Man,
what the hell are you even saying in your comment? Stop rambling
OK. The short form: I am surprised to see that libertarians are such credulous boobs.
Please report to the nearest processing facility for exsanguination and repackaging.
You expect to have all the underlying research set out in an article like this?
Christians are going to be pissed.
What would they be Pro-life and anti-life?
Next step is applying this to law... only the Aryans can marry... "undesireables" off to the camps...
Eugenics wearing any disguise scares the carp outta me...
why is anybody even taking this article seriously in the comments? I didn't even bother to read it.
Everybody dies. Period. And regardless of what any nerdo can write in reason magazine, they'll probably continue to die around 70 - they might push the average up to 80 or 90, but that's it.
I thought libertarians were supposed to be the ultimate realists. Who's believing this stuff?
Wait, why does everyone have to die, especially in the 70-80 range. That's like saying everyone has to get around by walking or riding a horse.
We have cracked the genome, now it's just a matter of time before they figure out how to turn off ageing.
just being a realist. I'm not saying life spans aren't going to increase - just not dramatically anytime soon, which from what I understand, this article is implying.
Not to mention it's just possible that 60+ is just a natural biological limit. From what I understand, most old people die from specific health complications, like cancer or heart disease. But even if we find universal cures for these, when you're talking about people over 60, you're just going to get more complications. All systems eventually fail.
Just remember that NOT everything is possible. It's NICE to believe magical things - we all LIKE to believe them - but doesn't mnake them true. Start thinking like that and next thiong you know you'll be telling people you've invented a free energy machine.
Not to mention you're not going to convince anyone of anything with wild-eyed, amazing claims of what the future can be like.... Well, it'll get more readers for articles and magazines, but that's about it.
It's nice to sit around and talk big, but it's all just a giant circle-jerk.
The guys who spend years doing grueling work just to make the widget-bracket welding machine 10% more efficient at the ACME corp. are far more important to the world - however uninteresting and little their impact may be.
Oh, I agree that there is a natural limit around 80-100 or so. But that limit is based on biological processes that are subject to change.
If you can get your body to start acting like it did when you are younger, and keep rejunvinating itself you can get past that.
we (humanity - including the researchers mentioned in the article) doesn't know NEARLY enough about the human body and metabolism to make that claim - don't jump the gun
yeah that damn optimism of scientists! they are jumping the gun hoping their research might lead to something fruitful within the next 50 years! they should be saying "this wont' work maybe in a few centuries"
You realize the difference between gene therapy and clean water and good health care? No one is saying what WILL happen, just what might happen. gene therapy is a revolution just like attacking germs was.
But the pessimists and naysayers have never, ever, changed society for the better.
No, this isn't about being reasonably hopeful about the advancement of science - you're deliberately misconstruing my words
this is about people making wild claims. There ARE a lot of people here who ARE saying that huge leaps in life expectancy WILL happen soon.
Jumping the gun and making wild claims is damaging. It confuses people about the nature of science and what to expect - and it scares idiots as to the implications of technology well before anything serious has ever happened a la Philip K. Dick movies. We don't need more fodder for statists to pass more laws for what MIGHT happen with techonology.
It's crazies who make wild claims about science who never change society for the better. Idiots who spend all their time talking big and doing very little.
It's just like socialists who talk big but who know nothing about anything specific and who never do anything. College professors who've never produced ANYTHING but claim they know how to change the world into utopia. Dumbass college kids who'll say the government should provide safe housing for everyone, yet who don't know how even a single house is built.
We need more people thinking smaller and more specific, and actually producing something, and understanding that progress is made in little steps.
You're calling me a naysayer just because I'm not screaming from the rooftops about immortality and free energy machines and grand unified theories of physics.
It may be fun to talk huge, but it does nobody any good. Time to grow up.
You seem to know about socialism as much as you do about capitalism: Nil. Otherwise you would not just repeat empty phrases you picked up on TV or elsewhere on the media - that's the repetetive level of kindergarten. Not even your last sentence is correct, because you talk huge and yet you know nothing about what you talk about. Time to remember you are old but forgot to grow up.
If you're the same Edwin who bragged about not reading the article, then it's not surprising that you don't know what research is being done.
200 years ago you were the guy saying everyone dies at 50 at the latest, why even talk about living longer.
hey wait, if you were saying that 200 years ago, what is your secret?
The question that can't help crossing my mind is WHY people want to live forever...who is so afraid of death that they want to stave it off for an unforeseen amount of time? Let's take religious reasons for fear of death out of consideration, as those are controversial.
We are left with the understandably human fear of the unknown and loss of loved ones, which is what death precisely is. But even if death is simply the collapse of cells and the unique human being passes away into nothing, what is so bad about that if it occurs after a long, well-lived life? Obviously a life cut short is a bad thing, but if someone has lived very well in only 50 years of existence, then surely it wouldn't be that bad to die. Perhaps my perspective will change when I near death myself, but at this moment, if I have accomplished most if not all of my major goals in life, then I don't think I'll have any objections to dying at my current life expectancy of 78. Life is about how you live it, not how long you live it.
I'll be blunt: You're an idiot.
I don't think you can argue that death is good without making a fool out of yourself.
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Well, what if you live your 78 years without accomplishing your goals? What if you don't figure out what your goals are until old age?
What if your goal inherently takes two hundred years?
If it's predicted that in 15 years we'll achieve "escape velocity", anyone know how the author comes up with 30 as the cut-off age? Wouldn't the cut-off age be closer to 65?
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Here all this time I've been thinking a life savored celebrated experienced lived, not feared, or clung on to like a wet rat clinging to a piece of flotsam in flash flood, even if it meant life would be much shortened it would be the way. People who disagreed told me I'd never live to see 17, 17 came, I'd never see 20, 20 came..I was in my late 40s before they stopped that crap, a few because their deaths shut 'em up.
This life extension science, especially radical extension concepts, it's been around for awhile now, first time I heard of may have been Omni magazine, there's some obvious flaws here and there. Still, those involved seem to find zeal in it, and they're enjoying themselves that's great. It would be heartless to crash a Star Trek convention, don't get me wrong, this has some legitimate science involved. Enthusiasm good, too much, and clarity is lost. I know, my enthusiasm was so great that the possibility that people just couldn't know and I may grow old never was given consideration.
Well, here I am, 1,500 years? I'm your guinea pig!
Then again, there seems to be a focus on me-ness, what about other people? Should they be forced watch their youth vanish while forced to suffer in a world packed full of 900 year old geezers who just won't do it and kick the damn bucket or another 600 years?
Just a thought.
why is anybody even taking this article seriously in the comments? I didn't even bother to read it.
Everybody dies. Period. And regardless of what any nerdo can write in reason magazine, they'll probably continue to die around 70 - they might push the average up to 80 or 90, but that's it.
I thought libertarians were supposed to be the ultimate realists. Who's believing this stuff?
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Didn't know there's sucha summit. Who wouldn't want to live long.
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My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I'm sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane. Even some cursory knowledge of Hebrew and doing some mathematics and logic will tell you that you really won't get the full deal by just doing regular skill english reading for those books. In other words, there's more to the books of the Bible than most will ever grasp. I'm not concerned that Mr. Crumb will go to hell or anything crazy like that! It's just that he, like many types of religionists, seems to take it literally, take it straight...the Bible's books were not written by straight laced divinity students in 3 piece suits who white wash religious beliefs as if God made them with clothes on.
My only point is that if you take the Bible straight, as I'm sure many of Reasons readers do, you will see a lot of the Old Testament stuff as absolutely insane.
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"Health and medicine will be a million times more powerful in 20 years," Kurzweil said, I totally agreed on what he said because it will be happen 20 years from now.
I guess they finally found the case where that argument works on northern liberals.
Would love to attend this summit and find out how to live longer.
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Here all this time I've been thinking a life savored celebrated experienced lived, not feared, or clung on to like a wet rat clinging to a piece of flotsam in flash flood, even if it meant life would be much shortened it would be the way. People who disagreed told me I'd never live to see 17, 17 came, I'd never see 20, 20 came..I was in my late 40s before they stopped that crap, a few because their deaths shut 'em up.
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Then again, there seems to be a focus on me-ness, what about other people? Should they be forced watch their youth vanish while forced to suffer in a world packed full of 900 year old geezers who just won't do it and kick the damn bucket or another 600 years?
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I wish the possibility of immorality can be achieved soon, but what are their plans for overpopulation?
I was quite happy to see from the article that the conference was in fact larger than I'd expected, when reading about it beforehand. It is great to see not only growth but also this positive sort of coverage
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Sometimes I sound like I'm arguing, when I'm actually not. I just have a way of putting my posts stronger than intended.It's easier to keep out of the conversation and not take the chance of being misunderstood.
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Kurzweil declared. He predicted that the complexity of biology will yield to the exponential powers of applied information technology and take off. He cited Moore's Law which predicts doubling of microchip functionality and halving their costs every two years.
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Nice article but I do think that the real dream is when humans will be able to clone their body and mind perfectly.
Imagine this, every morning when you go to work you press a little button behind your head(or even automate the system), a mind back + genes backup get's done. You go to work, get killed by a road accident, no problem, your family reload the backup to the last date(this morning), you wake up and that's it 🙂
You will then have infinite life,cool no?
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Some of this reminds me the cryofreezing craze that happened in the 80s, but I think it is over by now. Cheers.
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If you think that health care is expensive now, wait until everyone starts living forever!
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Would you really want to live eternally though?
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Wow, a pretty bold statement to make re: life expectancy. Just like there are new cures every day, there are also new diseases coming out every day as well. It is a constant battle to try and keep up with it all.
Interesting.So maybe we can look younger..what about feeling younger - that is where I struggle..
Interesting research. are we actually close to finding something within the next 5 years?
Extreme human life. This sounds extraordinary. The very thought just opens up so much more possibilities..what have these scientist really uncovered...and I wonder what test have been carried out. We want to know more...and what age do we then retire at?..
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If health remains good, and standard of living is good too - then this will be good....not so sure about having several generations in the family!
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So we wish our queen a long life, we wish all our loved ones a long life, but do we really know what it will be like - especially if so many things begin to not function...
The chance to live forever.But the reality of it all.Food for thought.
The chance to live longer is just progress, I guess itis like breaking the 3 minute mile.
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The goal of the summit was to devise scientific and business strategies with the goal of demonstrating the capability to reverse aging in an older human being by 2029. By then
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that was certainly one of a kind"According to Andrews, when an adult's telomeres get down to about 5,000 repeats they die of old age. By looking at telomere length in a blood sample, Andrews claimed
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Why do we think that there is necessity to increase the Longevity of life. Curing diseases and finding solutions and medicines on them is quite understood. We have a cycle, childhood-teenage-old age- and Death. We should let it happen the way it is. I could be wrong but i am not convinced on the stated studies done by specialist.
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Why do we think that there is necessity to increase the Longevity of life. Curing diseases and finding solutions and medicines on them is quite understood. We have a cycle, childhood-teenage-old age- and Death. We should let it happen the way it is. I could be wrong but i am not convinced on the stated studies done by specialist.
This would be the biggest thing to hit the planet, if we can turn these into drugs,' said Andrews
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The strategy has been used for years but drew attention recently when the California Fair Political Practices Commission levied a combined $49,000 in fines against Assemblyman Joel Anderson, R-Alpine, and the Fresno County Republican Central Committee following an unusual pattern of donations that was brought to light in October.
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Tech entrepreneur and futurist Ray Kurzweil opened the conference with a virtual presentation on exponential technology trends that are bringing the prospect of achieving longevity escape velocity ever closer. "We are very close to the tipping point in human longevity," asserted Kurzweil to the conferees. "We are about 15 years away from adding more than one year of longevity per year to remaining life expectancy." This has been labeled by summiteer and life-extension guru Aubrey de Grey as longevity escape velocity. Achieving escape velocity, according to Kekich, would mean that "your projected day of reckoning moves further away from you rather than closing in on you."
Why do we think that there is necessity to increase the Longevity of life. Curing diseases and finding solutions and medicines on them is quite understood. We have a cycle, childhood-teenage-old age- and Death. We should let it happen the way it is. I could be wrong but i am not convinced on the stated studies done by specialist.
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Isn't Kurzweil the same guy who said that by 2025, the human brain would be rendered obsolete because AI would catch up and overtake it?
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Thanks a lot for the article. I guess we just need to stay healthy and fit .
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This would be the biggest thing to hit the planet, if we can turn these into drugs,' said Andrews
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The strategy has been used for years but drew attention recently when the California Fair Political Practices Commission levied a combined $49,000 in fines against Assemblyman Joel Anderson, R-Alpine, and the Fresno County Republican Central Committee following an unusual pattern of donations that was brought to light in October.
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The decrease in cost and increase in speed of sequencing whole human genomes is outpacing even Moore's Law.
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Jumping the gun and making wild claims is damaging. It confuses people about the nature of science and what to expect - and it scares idiots as to the implications of technology well before anything serious has ever happened a la Philip K. Dick movies. We don't need more fodder for statists to pass more laws for what MIGHT happen with techonology.
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